/sci/ - Science & Math

cause physics fags get C's in intro to bio because they're bad students and then take it out on the field for the rest of their lives

>>realizes that biology is what gives them the ability to understand hard sciences
AHAHHAAHAAHAHHHAHAAH
also,
>it's
AHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHH

>>realizes that biology is what gives them the ability to understand hard sciences
study of something =/= that something
faggot

>>4125653
>>4125658
Brains are a construct of biological nature, and brains are what allows you to understand hard science.

>>4125880
Actually, it's consciousness

>>4125649
Biology is just applied chemistry which is just applies physics...pure math.
Does somebody have that xkcd comic?

>>4125880
>>4125892
And yes, it's consciousness and reasoning that allow you to understand science, hard or flaccid, OP. And consciousness is just brain chemistry.

Relevant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hierarchy_of_knowledge

>>4125649
>Why is biology attacked for this reason

No one in the real word attacks biology, just underage trolls in /sci/.

Biology thus far for me has been pure memorization. I hate it for that reason. 2nd year Pre-pharm student here.

>>4126142
It does kinda suck that we have to spend almost 4 years memorizing the combined work produced by hundreds of thousands of people studying for their entire adult lives.

perhaps we only memorize the high points.

>>4126126

This bro is right.

>>4126152
No but when I'm forced to memorized which family a sponge is in, it doesn't really benefit me at all. G-Protein signaling, the insertion and innervation of the sartorius muscle. None of that matters because I'm just going to forget it and it isn't applicable to me anyway. I can just look something like that up if I ever need to.

I have much more respect for chemistry because it seems to be more of learning a way of thinking than memorization of concepts.

>>4126173
I agree, and biology is so broad you really shouldn't be required to memorize anything that you aren't going to use.

memorizing zoology or anatomy is really only necessary for zoologists and anatomists. Knowing where to look for information is more useful than memorizing it. All the memorization does what it's intended for though. Weeds out the dull and the uninspired. Education is just an excercise for the most part, an invented obstacle to overcome.

>>4126217
>Education is just an excercise for the most part, an invented obstacle to overcome.
This is especially true for med school, where they really just want to see if you can do dull, difficult things consistently for a few years.

Thanks for making sure infant mortality rates aren't 50% and that I don't get polio and all but you can go fuck yourselves bio fags

>>4126230
>you can go fuck yourselves bio fags

we prefer to fuck each other
there're advantages to some soft science, female participation being the most obvious one

>>4126224
I meant for the undergrad classes you take before med school.

Biology involves systems that are just complex enough to defy simple one-line-equation models like chemistry or physics but not so complex that they can be generalized like historical cycles or social structures.

i.e. biology is math-intensive enough that english majors fail it and generalized-system-intensive enough that math studs can't deal.

>>4126265
Agreed good sir.

Also, biology, it defines who we are, how we think.
Biologists are a damn sight less ignorant of matters concerning scientific significance in our everyday lives. Sure, maths and physics buffs could have an equation to explain this and that. But biologists would know about life, the organisms in nature, how they work. How man works. How our bodies work.
Would you know the difference between a bullshit or genuine science fact presented in the media?


Sure these 'god tier' and 'higher tier' systems are bullshit.
And maths and physics is extremely fucking hard. And it takes a certain type of gifted person to attempt them. But without biology how the everloving fuck would they be able to apply anything they've found in any meaningful way to our lives?

It is my personal opinion that to specialize in one field is a type of ignorance, not in a bad way, it just leaves you unaware of all the extremely exciting things happening elsewhere. Biology combines most or pretty much all fields of science.
Biology is a hell of a lot more broader than any other degree or field.

Don't pay attention at all to the so-called "tiers" of sciences.

They're nothing but arbitrary constructs that some people have built in order to make themselves feel better at the expense of others. The only thing that should affect your decision of what science to choose is which one you like most. If you decide to be a mathematician because you want to be respected on an anonymous image board, then you're a bigger fool than the guy who is going into a history degree.

Every field of science is important because they deal with different things. If we were all mathematicians and physicists, we'd starve.

>>4125892
that's fucking psychology, now look what you've done.

undergrad degree that pays the most : engineering

>sci hates this

graduate degree that pays the most : medicine (aka biology)

>sci hates this

/sci/ is insecure because they are poor.

"Biology is a soft science" is a meme started months ago. I was here when it was spammed incessantly.

Like drones, the lot of /sci/ hopped atop of it. It was finally pushed down our throats so much that people started coming up with reasons as to why it really is a soft science. It's nothing more than a meme. It falls in the same category as 'engineers are fags.'

/sci/ most popular memes as follows:

>engineers are gay/fags/gay pride parade picture with engineering topic discussed
>biology is a soft science
>economics is not a science
>EK is a bitch/cunt/asshole
>Harriet is a goody-too-shoes who defends EK too much.

The last one is true; EK being a bitch/cunt/asshole is debatable. I've no qualms with her, though I was one of the first people to openly disrespect her. I did it in jest, though, and didn't think people would take me seriously.

The only meme is I partially agree with is economics not being a science, and that's not necessarily a disrespectful comment, depending on how you take it. It's a relatively rigorous field in its own right, but it fails to be a science simply because it is haphazard and there are barely any axioms to actually hold it together. Science relies on axioms and tests/hypotheses; economics fails those requirements.

Is it soft? Clearly, it isn't. It's one of the more difficult/rigorous fields and it incorporates actual mathematics. Just because it doesn't fall under the category of science, however, doesn't mean it's shitty. Hell, Mathematics doesn't even fall under the category of Science in the minds of most people. Fuck it.

>>4125904
This one?

>>4126710
What about philosophy? From personal experience, philosophy has provided a mode of thought for deriving truths from particulars which I often refer to as a "vector". Thus, by alternating between vectors, I can acquire different truths of some particular. So, it's more like... according to this premise being true, then x may be false but if given a different premise, then it may be true. It's also just exploring the intrinsic values of forms rather than their superficial traits (e.g. aesthetics, relations - instead, finding their absolutes - of whether they're true or false). So, why is philosophy attacked? Could it not be that those who view it as "mindless rambling" are those who have not attained an appropriate "vector" for interpreting a given philosophy?

>>4126721
Yep.

>>4126710
dude you forgot the most popular meme of all
>PhD in Math

>>4126710
you know harriets going to respond to this. Every day she comes to /sci/ she goes to the installgentoo archive and cntrl+f EK to respond to every thread EK is mentioned in.

>>4126126
Biologist detected.
You've never worked in a chemistry/physics lab, or spoken with a physics/math professor have you?

>>4125649

Biology is attacked on /sci/ by first- and second-semester undergrads who are convinced, by their As in Intro Physics, that they'll have PhDs in theoretical physics from MIT at 25, and tenured professorships at Princeton by 30.

I WANT TO BE AN ASTRONAUT!

I WANT TO BE A FIRETRUCK!

I WANT TO WANT A WANT

because pure biology has no uses without a background in chemistry. but honestly the more you get into any scientific field the more the sciences begin to blend

So here's the thing... Richard Feynman loved biology, and spent many summers working in bio labs on various projects. If it's good enough for him, then it's good enough for you.

>>4126173
> No but when I'm forced to memorized which family a sponge is in, it doesn't really benefit me at all.
Except that if you didn't know it in the first place, then you wouldn't even think to look it up. Scientific discovery is about making connections between diverse subjects, and in order to do that, you need to know a lot of stuff. Saying you can do biological work without memorizing things is like saying that you could design and build a bridge using only the information found in Wikipedia, without any sort of formal training. There's a chance it might work out, but it will take forever for you to do it, and odds are it's going to fall down in the end.

Is biochemistry a hard or soft science?

its right in the middle of chem (hard) and bio (soft)

>>4127068
My university recently introduced an elective course in biochemistry for those doing a MSc in Physics.

Number of students: 0

I think this speaks for itself.

>>4127070

Why would you need biochemistry for physicists?

>>4127068
Bio-chemistry is the application of chemistry to the complex structures of life, that makes it a hard science

>>4127068

I have a BA in chemistry (with a "concentration" in biochemistry), I wouldn't say that biochem is "in the middle of chem and bio"; it's closer to chem. It requires, at least, one semester of PChem (w/ lab) and one semester of AChem (w/ lab), as well as other upper division electives (medicinal, inorganic/bioinorganic, bioorganic, etc.) that are offered through the chem departments and taught by chemistry PhDs.

>>4127068
>>4127083
I'm studying Biotech Engineering and I say Biochem is not hard, enzymology and the metabolic pathways are probably the most difficult concepts to understand, but they're not hard at all.

>>4127075
No clue, but if it's useless to Physicists, it's useless to everyone.

>>4127102
what makes you say that?

>>4127102
>useless to everyone
No crying when your mommy and daddy die of some biochem applied curable disease

>>4127104
In matters of science something can either be reduced to Physics or it is completely useless.

surgeon ain't soft

>>4127102
> if it's useless to Physicists, it's useless to everyone.
Just want to point out (as a physicist) that biology gives us a lot of opportunities to learn about physics, and some physicists say the interesting stuff is now happening in areas like cell physics - examining phenomena within cells to fine tune our understanding of fluid and chemical physics, all that jazz.