/sci/ - Science & Math

it strengthens teeth

It causes autism and political docility.

it increases the prevalence of homosexuality in males

I remember doing some research on it and came to the conclusion that it's harmless but I still disagree on it on ethical grounds as it's essentially forced medication. Would like to see some non tinfoil hat studies too though.

>>4120260

>I still disagree on it on ethical grounds as it's essentially forced medication

This is what right wing libertarians actually believe.

I don't drink tap water anyways, so I don't give a shit.

>scientific consensus
>no sources posted

Really guys?
/sci/ sucks today....

>>4120264

they totally have a point man people should pull themselves up by their bootstraps into good dental hygiene

if the poor have no access to fluoridated toothpaste and die of complications from periodontitis its their fault for not working hard enough

The 60's called. They want their conspiracy theory back.

>>4120275

>if the poor have no access to fluoridated toothpaste and die of complications from periodontitis its their fault for not working hard enough

Who's going to do all of the work white middle class Americans won't even touch then?

Didn't think about that did you, asshole.

>>4120264
>>4120275

Because everyone in the none red areas has rotten teeth, right?

>>4120210
>scientific consensus on water fluoridation

It is good

forgot pic

It makes water taste bad.

>>4120301
Why is Gabon so high?

>>4120365
Never mind. Wikipedia'd that shit.

I was in france and the water tasted like shit. I hate it.

>>4120210
None at all.

This guy explains it quite well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo6SnvmMP9k

>>4120301
I live in norway, my teeth are fine. flouride is probably not important

>>4120266
Why?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfPAjUvvnIc

>>4120405
what is this, some alex jones shit?

>>4120407
In your country, they put it in your salt and toothpaste.

And by "they", I of course mean lizard people.

>>4120405
ahahahaha this is my fucking alma mater, christ

>>4120418
Well, I do use toothpaste with fluoride. I'd rather not have it in the water though, I'm sure it'd taste bad.

>>4120417
This better for you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88pfVo3bZLY

Well supposedly it does reduce cavities in the population. But it seems the wrong way to go about achieving said goal.

>>4120423
It has no flavor.

Which is why the Rockefellers use it for covert mind control purposes whenever direct hypnosis is not an option.

>Fluoride is not considered an essential mineral element for mammals and humans

No reason for it to be in water. It's essentially a toxin anywhere above the trace amount.

>>4120460
>No reason for it to be in water.
You might wanna talk to god about this.

>It's essentially a toxin anywhere above the trace amount.
That's probably why the government also *lowers* the levels in water supplies with overly high concentrations of naturally occurring fluoride.

Makes your bones brittle and gives you arthritis, while giving some benefit to your teeth. If you want it it is your own business. Shouldn't force it on others.

>>4120720

a fearless defense of your right to cavities, thomas paine would be proud

>>4120210
It fucking works. It helps those that are less fortunate and can't afford expensive toothpaste. Only those who are like "omg large amounts of flouride is bad it can kill you extemely minute amounts can't possibly be good" are the onese complaining.

At my uni when the whole occupy wallstreet thing was going on there were a bunch of kids "occupying" the quad. One of them had a sign that said take the flouride out of the water. I told my physical chemistry prof about it and he called them "fucking morons". I loled

>>4120725
more like a plea to mind your own health

HORSE SHIT
smile, it's natural!

if you drank enough tap water for the flouride to have any effect on you, you'd have other more serious problems to worry about

http://chemistry.about.com/cs/5/f/blwaterintox.htm

>>4120751

not everyone is or is able to be equally informed regarding questions of health

what you are advocating is essentially a caste system of public health based upon access to information

>>4120762
but they're chemists. They make infinity billion dollars trying to put poison in the water.

>>4120720
>Makes your bones brittle and gives you arthritis
The trace amounts in the drinking water? Fucking bullshit.

>fluoride in water

don't you idiots know ingesting water kills thousands of people a year?

>>4120806
its because the gubment is putting dihydrogen monoxide in our water

Putting fluoride in the water, swaps the hydroxyl group on hydroxylapatite for the fluoride group, making the teeth stronger than the normal teeth.
Since fluor is still has the densest electroncloud, it makes sense this happens.

There are other things the fluoride does, but I suggest you all read the wiki article..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth_enamel#Oral_hygiene_and_fluoride

It weakens your immune system, so that their next bioengineered influenza virus can more effectively wipe out dissenters and other undesirables.

End the Fed!

>>4120780
yeah that's true. those crafty scientists, always conspiring to make money. it's the same thing with their global warming conspiracy- they all get the public to believe in climate change in order to sell the "green" products they develop

There's no studies that prove that ingesting fluoride improves your dental health or makes you any healthier in general. NONE.

Fluoride fucks with your teeth.

>>4120841

The scientists are well paid to lie.

>>4120853
by definition anyone paid to lie is not a scientist.

obama and bushes wars for oils and the 9/11 jews kennedy was assasinated for fake moon landings and the gubment fluride control fed jews control world hollywood illuminati

>>4120843

>There is no

stopped right there

>>4120858

>dont want to believe
>ridicule

That's a planned reaction, sheepy sheep.

>scientific consensus
there is that word again.

If you prefere to rely upon any consensus composed on some rothschild-financed 'international congress' with members hand-picked by the rockefellers.

>oeoeoe that word 'international congress',
>that sounds good huh,
>must something for the top-noch atheists sceintists >like you isn't it,
>you better start supporting technocracy.
if you prefere to rely upon that fine.

Yes, fluoride has been proven toxic by various studies in China, Mexico, Iran and India, even for 'lower' dosis.

here is the all the material you'r looking for.
http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/brain/#human


As for your question
According to the 'scientific consensus' and the rockefeller foundation.
http://www.rockefellerfoundation.org/
it's completely safe.

>>4120861

lol whatever, No fluoride in my water, I couldn't care less. Enjoy your teeth rotting and falling off.

here you go retards
Fluoride is a mineral that occurs naturally in many foods and water. Every day, minerals are added to and lost from a tooth's enamel layer through two processes, demineralization and remineralization. Minerals are lost (demineralization) from a tooth's enamel layer when acids -- formed from plaque bacteria and sugars in the mouth -- attack the enamel. Minerals such as fluoride, calcium, and phosphate are redeposited (remineralization) to the enamel layer from the foods and waters consumed. Too much demineralization without enough remineralization to repair the enamel layer leads to tooth decay.

Fluoride helps prevent tooth decay by making the tooth more resistant to acid attacks from plaque bacteria and sugars in the mouth. It also reverses early decay. In children under six years of age, fluoride becomes incorporated into the development of permanent teeth, making it difficult for acids to demineralize the teeth. Fluoride also helps speed remineralization as well as disrupts acid production in already erupted teeth of both children and adults.

>scientific consensus
there is that word again.

If you prefere to rely upon any consensus composed on some rothschild-financed 'international congress' with members hand-picked by the rockefellers.

>oeoeoe that word 'international congress',
>that sounds good huh,
>must something for the top-noch atheists sceintists >like you isn't it,
>you better start supporting technocracy.
if you prefere to rely upon that fine.

Yes, fluoride has been proven toxic by various studies in China, Mexico, Iran and India, even for 'lower' dosis.

here is the all the material you'r looking for.
http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/brain/#human


As for your question
According to the 'scientific consensus' and the rockefeller foundation.
http://www.rockefellerfoundation.org/
it's completely safe.

>>4120884
retard can you provide a link to a site that wasnt created for the sole purpose of spewing bat shit insane rants with no documented scientific proof

Hey, check out these insightful studies at

www.fluoridekilledmychildandmademyhusbandcheatonmywithmyownsister.org/fluoride_is_satans_seed.html

>>4120891
>>4120891

>no documented scientific proof
There is tonnes of research publications in pdf format form scientific studies from all over the world. that is the main purpose of the website.

I highly doubt you'v read all the references and links within 3 seconds.

what drug are you on pal or is it the fluoride effects ?

>>4120923
funny you ask, because i actually looked at them and their references and came to the conclusion that not only were all the tests describing the effects of fluoride poisoning (insanely large amounts of fluoride being taken in) the research being conducted was by individuals with no credentials at all and could not find them published anywhere, except for those handy pdf files on your conspiracy website

rofl “The IQ of the 60 children in the high-fluoride area was significantly lower than that of the 58 children in the low-fluoride area... More children in the high-fluoride area were in the retardation or borderline categories of IQ than children in the low fluoride area. An inverse relationship was also present between IQ and the urinary fluoride level. Exposure of children to high levels of fluoride may therefore carry the risk of impaired development of intelligence.” wow shut and closed case i guess because in a sample size of 118 children, those in one area had a higher IQ than those in another area, absolutely breath taking research

>>4120923

I stoped reading the site when it showed a graph of countries that fluoridate their water against those that don't, in regards to tooth decay.

It "failed" to mention that almost all of the non-fluoridating countries have water with natural fluoride in it, to them point where some of those countries remove the excessive substance.
And I used quotations on the word failed because it's really strange to actually forget such an important difference. It looks like they did it on purpose.

Concentrations in tap water occur naturally in various places. It's fucking nothing.

I'd be more worried about compounds like sodium nitrite and the excessive oil and salt added to food, if there's a conspiracy it's that fluoride, reptilians and gray aliens are a distraction from real issues.

>>4120942
Many of them actually are peer-reviewed and published, though mostly by the "International Society for Fluoride Research", which happens to be a bullshit-science-peddling anti-fluoridation group.

Didn't see that coming, eh?

>>4120942
>only insanely large amounts of fluoride being taken in
just no

from this point i refuse to argue with you any longer.

Since i am absolute 100% sure you are plain lying.
Just as sure as i know 1+1=2.

you did not look up 'all the tests'.
lying moron typical /sci/ aspie atheist faggot.

i don't feel the need to convince other /sci/ visitors.
i don't care of being accused of using 'shit-tier'-arguments.
I KNOW YOU KNOW, you are lying to yourself.

faggot.

>>4120772
That's a horrid argument man: you're begging the question of doing public good and creating a strawman argument by saying I'm advocating a caste system with a red herring about access to information.

I really can't take your argument seriously.

it calcifies your pineal gland preventing you from communicating with the spirit world. this way the government has more docile subjets

Oh well, as long as we can all agree that milk causes autism.

>>4120961
>>4120961
>>4120961

It say 'Published by the International Society for Fluoride Research'
At almost all the files because this is the ONLY orginization that bothers to translate documents on the subject from chinese/indian/iranian/russian origin on THIS subject.
In fact, they even don't translate it themselves they hire people for that.

Its is ´thier publication´, in a sence that ´they organized these documents to be translated´, they did not conduct any research themselves.

>>4121009

I thought vaccines did?

It keeps your teeth healthy.
It also keeps your grasses teeth healthy, and animals, cars, toilet and stomach.

Everything loves fluoridation.

>>4121011

Apparently they don't do a really good job translating, as the "high fluoride - low iodine" test population receives 0.88 and 5+ mg/L respectively.

>>4121011
...so you're a theist who believes that the government is using water flouridation to control the population?

this is why good trolling is an art- to do it right, you have to make it believable. and as sad as it is, there are people in the world who are actually as retarded as you are pretending to be. i applaud you sir (unless you're not actually trolling, in which case, wtf are you doing on /sci/?)

>>4121018
you'r a faggot.

Damn you guys now I don't know what to believe in anymore.

>>4121011
>At almost all the files because this is the ONLY orginization that bothers to translate documents on the subject from chinese/indian/iranian/russian origin on THIS subject.
Not quite, it's more because those awful, agenda-laden studies don't pass muster with respectable journals, so the Interplanetary Anti-Everything League of Extraordinary Mouthbreathers has to put out its very own journal, just so they can lend a faux air of legitimacy to those absolutely piss-worthless papers.

>>4121018
you'r a faggot

>>4121012
EVERYTHING DOES!

>>4121037

>not being able to show what the (western) consensus is on Fluoride is and why.

>making shit up to try discredit a legitimate source.
who is the conspiracy theorist here ?

also, [citation needed]

Cavities.

It seems like such an insignificant reason to pump chemicals into the WATER SUPPLY. Why not dump vitamins and minerals? Or other medicines?

Because it's not for fucking cavities. I mean really. When would a government care so much about preventing tooth decay that they enforce the pumping of chemicals into the water supply? Never.

>>4121037
Now stop pretending to be a pop-sceine 'elitists' and use this status to justify shit you make up and pretend things you say must be true.

you'v been compleyely debunked 4 times in a row now and knowing your arrogance you will probebly go on untill i get tired of you and you will have the last say.

typical /sci/ atheist aspie.

>>4121091

Because it saves them a crap load of money.

>>4121067
I actually read the original abstract from that research. It's about iodine. It just happened to mention fluoride, and your site got it and changed the title. Very well played.

>>4121067
I didn't make anything up, and it's not a conspiracy by any means either. It's a well-known anti-fluoridation group founded by an outspoken anti-fluoridation crank for the purpose of publishing anti-fluoridation papers to promote an anti-fluoridation agenda.

It's biased ideology, not science. If you want me to take any of this shit seriously, show me real research published in real journals.

>>4120460 >Fluoride is not considered an essential mineral element for mammals and humans

yes it is

>>4121107
>you'v been compleyely debunked 4 times in a row now
Calling me a poopiehead on the internet hardly qualifies as "debunking".

stop feeding the troll you idiots

>>4121109
>Because it saves them a crap load of money.

What? Whose money does it save?

There is no legitimate reason to be pumping fluoride into the water supply. Governments do not randomly decide to attack extremely insignificant issues with sweeping solutions like this.

>>4120720 makes your bones brittle

Actually it is the exact opposite. Without fluorine, your bones cannot utilize calcium, which leads to brittleness.

Fluorine allows your bones to be strong and healthy.

>>4121123
/snip/
Fluoridation costs an estimated $0.95 per person-year on the average (range: $0.22–$10.04; all costs in this paragraph are for the U.S.[2] and are in 2011 dollars, inflation-adjusted from earlier estimates[4]). Larger water systems have lower per capita cost, and the cost is also affected by the number of fluoride injection points in the water system, the type of feeder and monitoring equipment, the fluoride chemical and its transportation and storage, and water plant personnel expertise.[2] In affluent countries the cost of salt fluoridation is also negligible; developing countries may find it prohibitively expensive to import the fluoride additive.[71] By comparison, fluoride toothpaste costs an estimated $8–$16 per person-year, with the incremental cost being zero for people who already brush their teeth for other reasons; and dental cleaning and application of fluoride varnish or gel costs an estimated $87 per person-year. Assuming the worst case, with the lowest estimated effectiveness and highest estimated operating costs for small cities, fluoridation costs an estimated $14–$22 per saved tooth-decay surface, which is lower than the estimated $86 to restore the surface[2] and the estimated $145 average discounted lifetime cost of the decayed surface, which includes the cost to maintain the restored tooth surface.[28] It is not known how much is spent in industrial countries to treat dental fluorosis, which is mostly due to fluoride from swallowed toothpaste.[49]

>>4120210
we should probably use it less. Kids are getting too much of it already from toothpastes and getting(WAIT FOR IT).... bad looking teeth.

So, the American Dental Association's nefarious plan to prevent tooth has been FOILED by their own medicine!

>>4121002
>mfw my mother actually believes this
Fluoridation is just another commie plot to ruin america.

>>4121111
>>4121111
None of the research was done by this orgnization thier purpose is to raise awareness on the issue.

Most of the chinese ones are accepted as serious investigations. they ARE real journals.

Enyoneanyone understanding the implications of these studies should be anti-fluoridation.
It has nothing to do with being a 'crank'.

how about you coming up some backing documents faggot.

Just because you are a fancy pop-sceince elitists does not mean you don't have to back up any of your positions.

>Never drink tap water because it tastes shitty
>Victory

>Only drink cat urine because its quantum magnetism resonates positively with my Chi
>Victory

>>4120408
The only thing I can agree with this is when the guy says "The united states is not doing enough studies"

This is always true on every subject. We can never research anything enough.

Why is everyone fine with the concept of the government forcing medication on us?

It's debatable when it comes to vaccines because diseases are obviously a public health risk but tooth decay... is not.

>>4121113

citation needed

>>4121177

The reason why it isn't it's because there is fluoride in water.
A very small amount of the population actually brushes their teeth. Without Fluoride the government would be pretty much forced to offer dentist services in hospitals.

>>4121091

>It seems like such an insignificant reason to pump chemicals into the WATER SUPPLY. Why not dump vitamins and minerals? Or other medicines?

>Or other medicines?

Off topic but still, food for thought: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2004/aug/08/health.mentalhealth

>>4121191

No, tooth decay is NOT a public health risk. It's a personal ailment which has little to no effect on those surrounding the ailed. The government has no fucking business forcing treatment on every man woman and child on this issue.

>>4121177
no ones forcing you to drink it. now please kindly get the fuck out of /sci/ and go back to /x/

>>4121177
>Why is everyone fine with the concept of the government forcing medication on us?

Look closely at the replies of tripfag 'Atwill'.

Try to undermine his arrogant, technocratic, nihilist psyche and you will understand why you have collective medication.

Because of people like him.

>>4121168
>None of the research was done by this orgnization thier purpose is to raise awareness on the issue.
I didn't say they're doing the QUOTEUNQUOTELOLresearch themselves. I said they're the only ones willing to *publish* this shit. You'll never find any neutral, let alone positive studies in their brain-meltingly worthless excuse for a journal, despite the fact that it's entirely devoted to fucking fluoride research.

>Just because you are a fancy pop-sceince elitists does not mean you don't have to back up any of your positions.
It does, actually. My pompous air of grandeur stands in for data. Now, excuse me, I need to rub one out in front of my Richard Wiseman altar.

>>4121177
>Why is everyone fine with the concept of the government forcing medication on us?

Look closely at the replies of tripfag 'Atwill'.

Try to undermine his extremely arrogant, technocratic, nihilist (but yet probebly intelligent)psyche and you will understand why you have collective medication.

Because of people like him.

>>4121197

So, being against the government forcing things down your gullet when:

1. You may or may not already be taking care of your teeth
2. Even if you aren't, it's not a threat to anyone else

Is now /x/ material? You're a weak son of a bitch.

>>4121195

Almost nothing is a public health risk. Next time you brake your hand or crash with your car, don't go to a hospital. It's not a public health risk, is it?

Do me a favour and ask your grandmother if she remembers when her grandmother lost her teeth. She will tell you something like "when she was 35".

Sadly, tooth condition is proportional to the standard of living. It's extremly expensive to offer dentistry coverage to the public (ie: not even countries with free health care do it), therefore: fluoridation.

>>4121208

The difference here is that they are forcing chemicals down our throats without our permission. And which many/most don't need. It's immoral.

They're making our health decisions for us. I like to think most of us still want to live in a free society where we rise and fall on our own decisions.

>>4121179
http://www.mii.org/periodic/LifeElement.html

30 key elements, includes flourine

http://www.lenntech.com/periodic-chart-elements/human-body.htm

flourine is the 11th most common element in the human body

And I wanted to find a good link on flourine deficiency, but because practically everything edible contains it, you can't really be too deficient without dying from other problems.

so here is one about goats getting fucked up by a lack of flourine http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9854616

>>4121205
Hey, that's not fair. I voted for Perot.

>>4121207
yes, being able to look at things objectively and decide that the evidence points to a conclusion that goes against what i want to believe is weak

if flouride is so bad, why is the government poisoning the population? what is their motivation? also, you are aware the "the government" refers to a pretty goddamn large group of people- who specifically amongst these people is behind this conspiracy?

>>4121177 forcing medication.

But the government removed more flouride from water sources than it adds. This is because flourine is an element. It is everywhere. In water, in food, in you, in me.

No one complains about the government regulating the amount of arsenic in water, or regulating the amount of iron in water. So why complain about fluorine?

Also no one is forcing you to purchase water from the local government source. This water is a service. You can opt out. Dig your own well, or purchase from an independent source.

The funny part is there is a high chance that your well will have more flourine than the water from your tap.

>>4121218
>Perot propagated electronic direct democracy via "electronic town halls,".

im stunned ;3

>>4120959

>if there's a conspiracy it's that fluoride, reptilians and gray aliens are a distraction from real issues.

This. Is how I like my tinfoil.

They don't do it in my area because it's already present naturally in the aquifer at ABOVE the recommended levels.

>>4120210
The entire anti-flouride movement is based on the public's lack of understanding of how toxicity works; and of course the general paranoid conspiracy nonsense. I wish the people who think fluoridated water is dangerous would just take an minute to learn what toxicity means.

How idiots thing toxicity works:
>Substances are either toxic or non toxic. Any amount of exposure to a toxic substance is dangerous to your health. OMG the guvurmunt is putting toxins in my water.

How toxicity really works:
>There is no such thing as a toxic substance, what there are is toxic doses of substances. All substances including water have a toxic dose. Some substances have much higher toxic doses than others. The fluoride in drinking water is no more toxic than water itself; it is well below the level where someone could give themselves a toxic dose.