/sci/ - Science & Math

I know where i'm going on holiday!

What's the atmosphere like? Pressure? Water surface or some areas of dry land? Just trying to imagine what kind of life might be there

>>4104737
Doesn't really say anywhere what the actual atmosphere is like, but given it's 22C, water on it typically exists as a liquid, and the cloud-like things you can see on it, i'd assume it's that bit more massive cause it's that much larger, so the pressure would be quite high

>>4104737
They wouldn't be able to figure that out with current technology. At this point they're using relative physics to gander at what the planet might be.

They'll need some pretty high tech to see the chemical make up of a planet 600 light years away~

Do i hear a generation space-ship being built? Fucking government

>>4104753
That's an artist's depiction. A lot of stuff in the artist's depictions are based on real science, but there's no way to know just from the picture. But I don't think they'd be able to detect clouds. All they can really see is how much the planet dims the light of the star when it passes in front of it. And if the planet is massive enough, they can use its gravitational effect on the sun to get its mass (might be hard for an earth-sized one though).

ill colonize it

>>4104781
I'd colonize your mom's pussy with my warm semen

>>4104753

How exactly did they come up with the temperature of 22C for they whole planet, when they don't even know what it is made of? It that solely based on its distance from the sun?

>lies about 600 light-years away
We will NEVER go there, so not relevant at all.

>that feel when you will never walk on Kepler 22-b
>ever
>that feel

there will be hundreds more like it being discovered in the future.

life is inevitable in the universe. just accept it.

>>4104806
>"just accept it"
>no proof whatsoever

Let me guess, you're an atheist too?

>>4104802
>>4104793
Don't be so negative. All it takes is one crackpot scientist to somehow hit the jackpot and build a ship to travel with several generations worth of people.
I intend to be that crackpot.

>>4104806
feels bad man

>>4104808
0/10

>>4104793
>science
>not relevant
Bitch please?

>>4104793
Just knowing it's there is relevant enough. Of course we would get more information by going there but since it's not possible in any foreseeable future, just getting as much information as we can from where we sit is relevant for science.

>>4104809
The descendants will be too inbred to navigate the ship. They will burn up in some random sun.

We could have a look if we built a telescope with a mirror a few light years across.

>>4104831
>implying it wouldn't be thought out so as to not require direct inbreeding.
>implying the babies wouldn't all be screened for disabilities and aborted if not in 100% health.
>implying all their parents wouldn't be alpha humans with high IQs and no history of genetic disease.

>>4104777
Ok, yeah, saying that clouds exist is a bit unreliable
but I think clouds on the plant is perfectly plausable
>>4104792
Not sure really, just stated i, they said it's 15% closer to it's sun but their sun is only 75% as luminous, doing a bit of math could probably give you a decent answer

Wow, this is wonderful.

Each day, I feel bad, I think this world sucks and people suck. Then I hear about those marvels science produce or find. I feel better after that.

>2.4 times the size of Earth
>high gravity
>implying life can develop
crabs gonna crabs.

>implying that a baby developed and birthed into a zero-G environment would have a heart strong enough to pump blood through it's body when it encounters gravity.

As awesome as this is it may be filled with chlorine gas, or have oceans of hydrochloric acid, or some shit.

Basically, this information is worthless unless we go there and find out ourselves.

I demand a trip to go find out.

DIBS ON THE WINDOW SEAT!

I called it first.

>mfw actually, we are the "Aliens" that land on another planet
>we find them inferior cause they're technologically inferior to use
>mfw man turns out to be the first race that rules the galaxy
>mfw

>>4104793
>bitch doesn't know about my alcubierre drive and my relativistic rocket.

>>4104868
If some race could rule the galaxy, it would already be the case.

>>4104881
or would it?

>>4104861
>implying that life will develop on the planet based on the biology and ecosystems of our planet, and not the planet they are on
>Yeah, nah your a cunt

ALIENS
Very, very flat aliens.

Okay, so with our best CURRENT technology--Helios 2, about 160,000mph--how long would it take to get there?

600 light years = 3.52709989 × 10^15 miles

>>4104889
or aliens with a light skeleton and powerful muscles

600 light years away. lol. very relevant to us.

Anyone know the upper limit of the musculoskeletal system with regards to a greater force of gravity, especially over long periods?

>>4104892
That's not current, and the speed you need to consider is the one given after you've escaped the sun's gravity well, not fallen into it.

>>4104867

Why would we need to visit it to find out what the atmosphere is like?

>>4104901
Something like a rhino would do fine.

Then again, so would most lemurs. And some birds.

It's all about muscle/bone/weight ratio.

>>4104905
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(speed)

>Helios 2--fastest manmade object

But whatever, it doesn't really matter if it was going 1,000,000 mph. It would still take fucking forever to get there.

>>4104901
just imagine carrying someone of your weight around, the whole day. and even when you are sitting you have his weight on your backbone. if you are lying, this weight is lying on you.
this is life with 2g.

They know we are watching them. They are probably moer evolved than us and might decide to strike against us

Species would obviously develop to be ridiculously robust and strong by earth standards to cope with their atmospheric pressure and gravity.

mfw Superman....

>>4104914
It's fastest because it fell towards the sun. If you used the same rocket to launch something away from it, it will lose speed instead of gain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vehicle_speed_records

Here they list the MSL as the fastest "sun escaping", though I don't know if it actually has enough energy to do that. That was launched the other day, so it's up to date tech, and going about half the speed of helios. It's also pretty heavy though.

who would want to live in such a place? the pain would make everyone depressive and nobody able to work

>>4104937
We could use it as a prison and have the prisoners mine to death to extract the precious material that can be found on that planet.
Or just plain slaves.

wow, what a great planet

>>4104923
They'd also be rather small.

>>4104983

Why so?

>>4104983
If elephants can as large as they are under 1g there can be animals half their size of an elephant on kepler 22-b no problem. Like the size of a rhino, for instance.

we will build a generation ship with artificial gravity. during the travel the gravity will accelerate. i think additional 0,05 g per generation is acceptable, and it would naturally select the humans on board to breed into smaller beings with stronger bones.

>>4104990
The same reason there isn't anything that big on Earth.

>>4104997
> there is nothing as big as superman on Earth
> wat

This is the first time I've been to /sci/

ya'll fuckin dumb.

Does it have a jupiter- like planet to soak up potential rocks?

Everyone is talking about gravity as if they know.

Gravity depends on the mass. Fuckin turds.

>step onto the planet
>every man writhes in terrible agony as their ballsacks tear off the body from the powerful gravitational force

Okay, so this planet is 600 light years away. Let's say earth builds a generation-ship that can go .2 the speed of light.

Would it be morally right to send these people on the journey to this planet when, by the time they get there, it is likely that tech on earth will have progressed so far that they can reach the planet faster. So when these people get to this planet there are already people there.

>>4105013

>>4104995
pretty cruel, don't you think? would you do that to your sons and grandsons?

>>4104946
Great, we just discovered the planet and people are already talking about strip-mining the place.
The human race, everybody.

>>4105017

lol'd

That would suck ass.

I'm pretty sure whenever we do start doing the space travel thing, we're gonna leave our bodies here on earth. They weigh too much.

>>4105019
>would you do that to your sons and grandsons?

In the interest of science... yes.

>>4105038
Well, the machinery that would be needed to emulate our minds is currently heavier than these bodies.

>>4105043

Yes, currently.

And I'm not talking of emulation.

>>4105038
There's a theory that aliens do the same thing to visit earth, via astral projection. While that makes more sense than aliens travelling hundreds of light years to get to a planet, people on here shit chickens when that is brought up.

>>4105047
>astral projection
>>>/x/

>>4105053
Point proven.

>Send a robot that can build it's own cloning machine
>In many years time, get machine to create a chicken
>Chickens now rule the planet

guys, it's 600 ly away! just calculate the energy required to accelerate and deccelerate 10 tons of material on 10% lightspeed and back. it's illusional we'll ever procuce that amount of energy for a whole generation ship. (would be still 6000 years of travel though)

>>4105017
>implying they wouldn't just pick up those people along the way.

A ship like that actually reaching it's destination is highly unlikely.

>>4105063
>implying we won't just build generation ships out of neutrons

Silly mortal

Even if we had a ship that could travel at the speed of light (an impossibility according to the current model of physics), it would be faster to develop wormhole technology.


What if we get there. and they're stone-age? What if we're the most advanced civilization in the galaxy? The possibilities...

>>4105074
>neutrons
Silly popsci reader

>>4105063
Idiot here.

Why does the size of something matter in the vacuum of space? I was under the assumption that moving something in space even if the size of the death star doesn't require that much energy.

>>4105063
here you are, someone already did it for you.

http://www.concatenation.org/science/interstellar_travel_difficulties.html

>>4105079
Except when you can't wormhole technology in the real world.

>>4105088
E=mc² where m is mass and E is energy
Do you see the correlation?

>>4105088
travelling in space does not directly require energy.
accelerating and deccelerating does.

>>4105038
Herp Derp

What about time dilation?


If we sent a craft that went close to the speed of light, the passengers inside would age much slower than they would normally, wouldn't they?

>>4105129
You'd have to accelerate pretty close to the speed of light if you don't want a generation spaceship.

>>4105143
yes, in relative terms you can even go 10 times lightspeed,
but just calculate the required energy to do so. there is no existing energy source that could provide a ship for months or years for an acceleration with 1g.
don't speculate "if...if..." calculate it.

>>4105143
Or cryogenically freeze Arthur C Clarke style

yfw some day in the distant future, a powerful telescope views the night side of the planet and sees the unmistakable pattern of city lights.

>>4105156
no it won't, physic's a bitch

Time dilation only applies to objects moving at a constant velocity. Acceleration makes things a little more complex.
Which is partly the reason why the Twin Paradox is iffy.

I did the math, the equation is actually pretty simple.

If we can develop propulsion, energy, and interstellar gas shield systems that we'd need, and provide a constant 1g of acceleration and deceleration (which also provides simulated gravity as a nice consequence), we can make the trip in under 14 years relative to the voyagers.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28speed+of+light+in+vacuum%29+%2F+%28earth+gravity%29+*+arcsin
h%28%28earth+gravity%29+*+%28600+years%29+%2F+%28speed+of+light+in+vacuum%29%29

It would be 6.9 years if we didn't slow down, so if you start decelerating at 1g half way there, it becomes around a 13.8 year journey.

I used the Lorentz equations here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation

So the the trick isn't reaching a maximum velocity but being able to provide constant thrust and acceleration, and for that you need some serious energy.

And this whole lie that we need FTL travel to get anywhere needs to fucking end, fucking Jewish Hollywood sci-fi movies rotting the minds of the masses.

>>4104706
>>4104706
>http://phl.upr.edu/projects/habitable-exoplanets-catalog
>Update: The recent confirmation of Kepler 22b (KOI-087) does not qualify as a potential habitable exoplanet on the catalog. It is in the habitable zone of the star but it is also too big and classified here as a Warm Neptunian. Most of the interesting exoplanets in our catalog are Kepler objects too just waiting for confirmation as Kepler 22b did today.
NOPE.avi

>>4105170
great. and now calculate the required energy to do this acceleration. ( being optimistic, 10 ton of material / passanger )
THAT's the problem

>>4105179
That's OK, my uncle's working on an infinite energy device.

>>4105182
>>4105182

>>4105170
>And this whole lie that we need FTL travel to get anywhere needs to fucking end, fucking Jewish Hollywood sci-fi movies rotting the minds of the masses.

>>4105162

How so?

Everyone calm the fuck down, Kepler works by detecting transits, so it's only capable of detecting a tiny fraction of planets. Let's do a full doppler and astrometric scan of all nearby stars, and find the closest habitable planet, before launching any crack-brained generation ships 600 light years across the goddamn galaxy.

>>4105170
>And this whole lie that we need FTL travel to get anywhere needs to fucking end, fucking Jewish Hollywood sci-fi movies rotting the minds of the masses.
It's not that, it's just that most sci-fi writers can't make an interesting sotry without FTL travel.

>>4105179
Millions of times more than conventional rocketry, I can say that much.

Perhaps a Bussard Ramjet, which harvests kinetic energy from interstellar gas, combined with a nuclear reactor to ionize the gas would be enough.

>>4105199
Why not? Anyone crazy enough to embark on this wouldn't be missed.

>>4105091
That guy is a pessimistic hack, he doesnt know shit about the relativistic effects of nears light speed travel. Also his imagination is limited as fuck and cant coceive of advancement in technology.

>>4105208
It's completely pointless, in a few hundred years we will develop better rockets, which would reach the planet a lot faster, even when launched 100s of years in the future.

>"Earth 2.0"

>>4105179
implying the energy production on earth will increase at all

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2011-01/interstellar-travel-wont-be-possible-least-200-years-a
ccording-new-calculations

>>4105214
Being optimist won't help us overcome the challenges we need to overcome to successfully develop interstellar space travel.

>>4105214
this "pessimistic hack" with "limited imagination" is the author of "Accelerando". checkmate

>>4105206
So then why not use nuclear propulsion. Just bring like 5000 nukes along for the ride.

>>4105227
Stop living in your black and white world. Somewhere between pessimism and optimism is realism. That's what we're looking for here.

>>4105234
Because it doesn't provide constant acceleration, it provides you with impulses, and 5000 unsustained impulses, even at like 10g each isn't enough to get anywhere.

The Orion propulsion idea is outdated and obsolete, no one takes it seriously anymore except Internet quacks.

>>4105230

>Accelerando

Smei-readable dreck at best. His best work was that Cthulhu Mythos short story, which actually gave an element of terror to the whole situation.

Anyway, who cares what a writer thinks about engineering problems?

<<<< implying our energy production will increase exponentially

>>4105245
>Anyway, who cares what a writer thinks about engineering problems?
You stole the words out of my mouth bro, fuck that shitty writter!

>>4105150
>12 year old who doesn't know about centripetal acceleration

>>4105265
12? hah. more like 5.

An oasis for our people, Khan.

>>4104993

Even half the size of a motherfucker T-rex would be possible.

Using world energy production to set limits is a failing approach, because obviously energy will be produced from fuel on board.

>>4105276
No, the ship will be powered by a cable plugged on earth.

>>4105265
i'm pretty sure this guy means the energy required for the acceleration of the ship, not its rotation

>>4105276

That would be a very wasteful if you have to transport the source of propulsion.
Harvesting is a better idea, although not viable at present

/sci/ the place were neck bearded basement dwellers think they are smart.

>>4105314

Actually some of us have graduated from university.
And then grown a neck beard.

technically mars is in the "habitable zone" and its a hell of alot closer. Lets focus on what we know we can make progress on and take advantage of this jem in the solar system

>>4105343
mars is cold, low-atmosphere, high-radiation...

but yes, its close by so we should go there.

i doubt humans will ever leave the solar system.

Dude chill the fuck down.
There will be dozens more in 3 years if not hundreds more by 10 years.
Kepler just scans to confirm some theories that planets are widespread. So far its saying yes, and we will see how many Earth sized ones it will find(that doesn't mean Earth-like).
It isn't designed to find NEARBY Earth-sized planets.
Other telescopes and projects will have to accomplish this.

In general we could send a probe to Proxima Centauri if we tried. Achieving 10% of light speed isn't impossible for modern science although it would be very huge undertaking.

>>4105282
Imagine untying a knot which is half way into the cable.

No! People iun the US will actually start thinking about the future of human kid rather then fighting wars for Isreal.

>>4105350
We have already sent probes outside it.

>>4105343
The habitable zone concept is based on our Earth life.
For example Jupiter is not habitable zone, but there is some small possibility that its moons or atmosphere might have life.

>>4105359

But the presence of ice-water is due to tidal forces. Which could be very unpleasant to humans.

>>4105356
not really, and they are not useful any more.
humans wouldnt survive.

>>4105366
We are talking about life not about just humans.

For we all know, life could be also on Titan.
In truth our knowledge of space isn't that big.

>>4105367

>not really
yes, actually

>>4105373
ok, just wait and see if voyager sends anything useful any more.

please post here when it does.

We should send a probe out full of different types of algae, prokaryotes, eukaryotes and extremophiles, I've always been worried about what will happen to life after our sun expands into a red giant, it would be good to send this stuff out now before we nuke ourselves or our civilization stagnates.

What kind of star does it oribt?

>>4105387
The type of star that runs on nuclear fusion.

>mfw this is Man's destiny to take over the stars in an eternal empire
My vision is nearly coming true.
All we need is some engines that are faster than the speed of light and we are good to go.

ALL OF YOU FAGGOTS BETTER BE REALISTICALLY STUDYING HARD TO BE FUCKING USEFUL

I WANT TO COME BACK HERE IN FIFTEEN YEARS AND FIND OUT THAT YOU FUCKERS ARE CAPABLE AT HELPING US BUILD A SPACECHANSUPERSHIP OR ELSE THE INTERNET HAS BEEN A WASTE OF TIME

>>4105373
no, no probes have left the heliopause.
they are still within the protection of the sun.
when they leave the heliopause they will be in interstellar space.

>>4105017
It's more likely that humans on Earth will destroy themselves and they will be the last hope of the human species.

>>4105404

>THE INTERNET HAS BEEN A WASTE OF TIME

Apparently it's a G-type. I feel like I saw somewhere that it's a G2, but I can't find that reference again.
Either way, it's a very similar temperature to our sun.

My bet is that they have the radial velocity observations already made and good to go by January's AAS meeting. Fuck me, I really wish I was going now.

Doesn't this change everything, most importantly religions?

>>4104706
how do we know the temperature?

>>4105455
type of star, distance from star.

>>4105455
We can calculate that based on its distance from the star it orbits, its mass and its surface area, plus a luckfoad of other factors. Basically, same way we've calculated the temperature of planets in our solar system.

Now what should we call this planet?

>>4105455
This is actually a fairly straightforward problem to do naively. You translate the output flux from the star to the surface energy flux on the planet. This of course involves the 1/r^2 drop-off of the star's flux. With some assumptions about the albedo of the planet, we can find the energy absorbed by the planet and, therefore, it's temperature.

>>4105462
I vote we just name it Kepler, after the team of scientists/telescope/whateverthehell that discovered it

>>4105468
My vote is for "Fund NASA"

>>4104866
>implying non spunnun ships

>FUCKING YES

I'm sharing your happy thoughts, but hey it's not like we're ever going to fly over there anyway.

;_;

Meanwhile, in the philosophy department

>>4105471
that would hurt our relations with the muslim world dude

>>4105480
Not if we redirect the money from making bombs to drop on them!

I just want to point out that it is possible to determine if the planet has an atmosphere, and what the composition of that atmosphere is, by waiting for the planet to pass in front of its star, and doing a spectroscopy on the resulting sunlight that has filtered through the atmosphere and reached us.

Fucking astronomy.

I'm just going to leave this here?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GJ_1214_b

>>4105495
Don't you just love it!
Looks like the Kepler folks will be borrowing Keck HIRES pretty soon. What we really need is a spectroscopic space telescope.

>>4105479
You mean like
>What if it's a desert planet
amiright?

>>4105503
What about it? It's estimated surface temperature is almost guaranteed to be above the boiling point of water unless it has a very highly reflective atmosphere or something like that.

>>4105396
...

Is it a red giant, a red dward, white dwarf, main sequence star? How old is it, how large is it, what is it's composition etc... All these things are important.

>>4105513
See >>4105442

>>4105513
Also, there's no way to determine the age without radiometric dating of rocks in the system. Maybe when helioseismology is significantly advanced and we have a good enough telescope to make the necessary measurements, we can start to figure out how old other stars actually are.

cant we take energy out of something in space as the ship is moving? like gases and shit. infinite energy

>>4105513
Oh, right, and we don't know about composition either. As it's almost definitely a Pop I star (Pop II wouldn't have enough metals to form a planetary system and Pop III hasn't even been observed yet), it's probably approximately solar-type abundance.

>>4105516
>>4105522
Hmm, so it's doomed as well, though it might take longer since the star is smaller.

Also I'm pretty sure you can gain a reasonably accurate estimate by looking at the star's spectrum and luminosity, temperature slowly increases as the star gets older.

>>4105442
Kepler targets are really faint from the ground. How would they get RV followup? Especially since you'd need sub-m/s precision over the course of at least 1 full orbit to get a decent planetary mass estimate.

>>4104868
i've always had a feeling that's the way it will go more or less

>>4105555
Wow, quads.

I know there has been RV followup on other Kepler targets, but the planets were relatively closer and more massive. We need a space based RV instrument...

>>4105555
Big-ass telescopes. Though, admittedly, I'm not even sure if we actually have good enough sensitivity for that kind of target that far away from its star.
Also, nice get.

>>4105566
Nice dub dubs.

HARPS can get sub-m/s precision. The main issue is the time baseline. To confirm a planet, the transit has to occur at least 3 times to rule out shit like star-spots and other magnetic activity. Unless teams have known about this for a while and have been observing the shit out of Kepler-22, we'll have to wait another few years for a full RV dataset. And who knows? There could be some high mass outer companion that totally dominates the signal, making it even tougher to disentangle Kepler-22b.

>people on /sci/ talking about travelling there "durp whys da gubment not makin a ship???"
HURR IT WOULD ONLY TAKE 100 TRILLION YEARS WITH OUR CURRENT TECHNOLOGY ASSUMING INFINITE FUEL

>>4105581
Actually, if you already know the orbital period, you don't need any more than a few points to constrain the RV curve. We already know the approximate orbital speed, inclination, and such from knowing the planet's semi-major axis. The only thing we need to do is establish what the amplitude of the RV oscillations is.

>2.4 times the size of Earth
>my power level when

there's been a few of these discoveries yes?
some much closer to us that this new discovery

My face when my muscular-skeletal system is prepared because I weigh 70kg and can hold a 160kg barbell free-weight on my back for squats.

>>4105615
Nothing definitively in the habitable zone though. Gliese 581d is close, but not quite.

>>4105598
True, but the planet's induced signal is at most on par with the stellar noisiness. So, say S/N = 1 for each RV measurements, pretty optimistic. We'd need 100 observations to get S/N = 10.

>>4104769
it is possible but this planet is to far away, the downside of Kepler is that with its small field of view the planets it finds can't be further studied.

>>4104792
you can infer the temperature of the planet from the light it gives off, this can be determined by looking at the light normally and then when the planet is eclipsed by the star.

>>4104839
exaggeration, a telescope would only have to be a few tens of thousands of kilometres across, with an interferometer you would only need small telescopes with that separation. far from impossible people work on these concepts.

>>4105599
You have two competing effects when you increase the planet's size and mass. Gravity will probably be higher but not like Planet Vegeta levels.

>>4105645 only have to be a few tens of thousands of kilometres across

Is that all? For a second I thought they would have to be big.

>Hold on

That's fucking huge, gravity would break a telescope that big.

>>4106008
Like he said, you can have smaller telescopes whose minimum separation is that size.
More surface area (more telescopes between the edges) should improve resolution though, at least I think so.

Fucking build a space ship that can grow its own food and fill it with hundreds of people that can produce new generations to go on and eventually get to that fucking planet.

>>4106059
1 person goes insane, kills everyone, ruins experiment

>>4106062
It will be the parents duty to make sure these things don't happen and to minimize risks, it will be instilled to them from birth.

>>4104861
That is not how gravity works bro.

>>4106071
Better not let any Americans on board then.

>>4106071
The colonists would be chosen according to their genetic profiles. Genes of people who follow orders and define themselves by the group will be chosen over more independently minded people. Once the ship reaches the planet, stocks of genetic material containing a more human like set of characteristics will be used.

>>4106107
What is that supposed to mean?

By my calculations the planet has a surface gravity just under 2g. Anyone want to back me up on this?

>hurr gravuties
>durr double gravuties
>hurrdurr
>implying the gravity on Earth isn't 0.5g
Sure is bias ITT, though it's not surprising with all the stupid people frequenting /sci/
>Sten disapproves

i don't get why anyone takes this bullshit seriously
i wouldn't bother with a planet with higher gravity
even if the planet that's 2.4x larger than earth only had fifty percent stronger gravity somehow, that would still be a serious bitch.

What about GJ 1214b?

>>4106226
It's not like people as frail as you or me will be living there. They will adapt or be engineered to cope.

Kepler 22-b humans will have thicker bones, wider frames, and shorter stature much like Neanderthals but without the big brow.

>>4106274
This.

Fuck these biased, unimaginative ignoramuses.
>meanwhile, 600ly away
>there's no way Sol 3 could harbor intelligent life
>how could a 0.5g environment keep anyone attached to the ground sufficiently to communicate seismically
>any species evolving on Sol 3 would be individuals with no way to produce societies

>>4106337
What is this 0.5g I keep seeing?

>>4106372
The surface gravity of Earth in Kepler 22-b-native units.

>>4105350
Sure we will. The Oort cloud of the Centauri system is likely just a hop, skip, and a jump away from the edge of ours. Sooner or later an outermost He3 Oort mining colony will find themselves closer to an object orbiting another star than one orbiting Sol.

>>4106389
Clever.

>>4106407
Not really, just sarcasm. I'm just really tired of people who seem unwilling to consider other points of view.

>>4106426
Small minded is the best way I can describe it.

You know, using the area searched by Kepler and the number of Earth like planets found, we could work out the average distance between Earth like planets.

I wonder if there are any missions planned to scan larger swathes of the sky as part of an inevitable comprehensive search for all nearby Earth-like planets.

The mass / density are the most important factors. There's been some good debate about how plate tectonics may or may not be possible on super earths and plate tectonics is crucial to the evolutionary progress towards more intelligent life forms (it sustains the carbon cycle for one). If there's no plate tectonics is could be a watery planet which suggests that there is little intelligent life, if any at all - need abundant O2 for that, something that's not that rich in water environments. If it's too dense (and too strong), lithostatic pressures may be too great to be overcome by gravity which means no plate tectonics, which means no "intelligent" life. If its mass / density is too small it's likely a gaseous planet and there again, the chances of "intelligent" life are dwindled to a large degree.

>>4106444
>work out the average distance between Earth like planets
Yes, just have to take into account if the survey was along the local axis of the spiral arm or out from it, so the variations in star density don't cause an overly optimistic/pessimistic value.

>>4106496
The average would hold for the majority of stars in our Orion's Arm therefore I believe the density found from Kepler data would be good enough. After all, the real reason we would want to find the average distance between Earth like planets would be to know how far away the nearest Earth like planet is likely from us.

>>4106403
we have to invent technology that can survive in deep space.
ie beyond the heliopause.

we will not be around to see it.

>>4106533
>we have to invent technology that can survive in deep space.
We have the technology to do it now. All you need is food, a flashlight, O2, and a metric fucktonne of iron filled rock separating you and space.

Everything else is just details. :P

So, realistically, what if we found a very like earth planet 15-25 years worth of space travel away, and we clearly observed large metropolis like lights all over it's surface. What is our next move? Probes? Radio waves?

>>4106558
The next phase would be dividing it and trading it on the market, as usual.

>>4106558
>15-25 years of travel
Assuming you mean non-relativistic 15-25 years, then probably probes, since they should have been able to receive our radio signals a long time ago already.

>>4106558
>15-25 years worth of space travel away
Do you mean 15-25 light years away? No star is 15-25 years of travel away by current or near-term standards.

If we had REALLY fast ships within 200 years, missions to even the nearest stars would likely take centuries.

>>4106558

>>4106558
We would pray they are benevolent because it is far more likely their civilization is millions or billions of years older than ours than it being at pace with us.

It appears that you are a gangster. I'll have you know that I as well, am a fellow gangster.

>>4105398
>FOR THE EMPEROR!

Captcha: Physic array

>>4106602

I rather doubt that civilizations of any sort could ever last that long. Not to mention that there are hard limits on things like energy production.

>>4104808

Life is inevitable in the Universe- we/Earth is proof of that. Humans are not separate from nature and Earth is not separate from the rest of the Universe.

>>4106574

Actually, using an Orion pulsed nuclear drive vessel, we could reach the nearest star system in less than 50 years travel time. And it would seem like a shorter trip to the crew as they would be traveling at 1/10th C.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_pulse_propulsion#Project_Orion

>>4106651
I'd like to see you get that big of a ship into orbit without using the engine though. Using nukes to get ships into orbit is not sustainable. That's why my estimation was a little more pessimistic.

>>4106663

What do you mean, not sustainable?

>>4106638
I assume you are imaging a civilization like our own. Well then yes, you are probably right. However, civilization can mean a lot of things. The planet could be a colony world of a vast interstellar empire that waxes and wanes over the course of millions of years. It could be filled with a species that has existed so long that they, their technology, and ecosystem exist in a seemingly permanent state of stagnant equilibrium. Or the entire planet may be filled with manufacturing facilities that operate as internal organ equivalents for a single planetary intelligence.

>>4106663
So build it around a space station in orbit and then take off?

>>4106689
What I mean by "not sustainable" is that detonating hundreds or thousands of nuclear weapons across every layer of the atmosphere for every launch into space, for many launches, again and again and again cannot be done for a long period of time before cancer rates across the entire planet go up.

>>4106693
You still have to get all that mass into space. I doubt LEO will do it either given the fact that you will be detonating nukes to move. The population of the Earth would freak the fuck out if they found out you were raising their chances of getting cancer by 0.00001%.

>>4106706

Except we've done countless atmospheric nuclear tests over the past several decades and that didn't happen. Dyson's own calculations showed that an Orion space program comparable in scope to the Apollo program would, statistically, cause something like 0.7 cancer deaths.

>>4104861
Neptune is fucking huge and its surface gravity is similar to Earth's.

>Except we've done countless atmospheric nuclear tests over the past several decades and that didn't happen.
There are many cases of populations around nuclear test sights going up and you know as well as I there is no invisible wall that 100 miles from every nuclear test sight that stops radioactive material from getting past. Such tests obviously increase the cancer rates across the planet, but just in a unnoticeable amount.

And we aren't talking about one launch. We are talking about using Orion engines as the main workhorse from now on. Within a lifetime we would put detonate far more radioactive material withe such launches than all the previous nuclear weapons tests did. One launch would be fine, but it's not like anyone would spend billions developing the technology to only launch one because they arbitrarily draw the line for too many nuclear explosions at two launches, or three launches, or twenty.

>>4106723
And what do you mean by "comparable in scope to the Apollo program"? Do you mean launching as much mass into orbit as the Apollo program, that is a similar net delta-v?

>>4105196
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_resolution

Now get calculatin'

>>4106706
>>4106756
>Implying increasing atmospheric mutagens won't ultimately be good for humanity and the ecosystem owing to accelerated evolution and thus a major boost in biodiversity

>>4105398
My nigga.

>anti-nuclear movement

I haven't read the thread through enough but did angry simian guy go on a faggot rampage in here yet?

We will send Asimo to explore it for us. Asimo is a pretty cool guy and he doesnt afraid of anything. He laughs at your need for air, food, and companionship. Send this nigga with enough batteries and he will strip mine that little pussy of a planet faster than a rabbit gets fucked. Problem???

I hope its a world like the elder scrolls

then we can prove CHIM wrong

>>4104706
>>4104706

Oh hey guys, don't mind me...

>600 light years away
Who gives a flying fuck?

We won't ever reach it.

>>4106832
but there's nothing good there.

>>4106836

>it would only take 6 generations to get there if we maximize our propulsion systems

get outta here

>>4106831
Dude!
>mod that depicts you as a terran astronaut that has just landed on Tamriel
FUND IT

>>4106839

Maybe you all should try sending people here first before you think of a planet 600 light-years away

I am a goldmine of resources

I have quite a view, but no atmosphere bah-dum-tss

No? I see how it is

>>4106851

I miss a human presence :(

>>4104899
That's what I'm thinking. If there is life (which is highly probable) the lifeforms would probably be made of some different materials, body forms then we are.

I'm like freaking out, this is so cool! I want to know if there is life or not! And if so, what is their lifestyles like? Are they like us (countries), do they act like us, what do they eat, etc.?

Being a Christian this would be an extreme step in finding out more about God's universal plan. At least the way I look at it from a Christian point of view.

>>4106855
I was with you until
>Being a Christian this would be an extreme step in finding out more about God's universal plan.

>>4104917
And that's when we get exo-skeletons to walk on the planet!

Now I'm thinking of Avatar.. wait a minute, that might not be a good idea.

>>4105398
It wouldn't really be an empire so much as billions of separate civilizations communicating via laser ling.

I imagine life in any one solar civilization would advance, digress, and advance again and again. They would worship the trickle of information that comes through the narrow laser links from the advanced, nearby civilizations and be basked in the praise of the less advanced civilizations that they send their own technological and cultural information to. Every once in awhile one of the hundreds of links would go black and every surrounding civilization would ping for reply from their lost brother, only to find out centuries later that a new civilization has grown from the ruins of the last, which had been destroyed by civil war, disease, or economic collapse.

>>4106851
Sorry Moon. I know we grew up together, but we have nothing in common. I'd rather hang out with my friend Mars.

Don't be sad. You have loads in common with all the other moons out there.

>>4106832

FML.

>>4106866
*laser link

not laser ling... kekeke

Fuck, and just last week I managed to kick my space-3X game addiction.
brb GalCiv2

NEW THREAD

>>4106856

>>4106851
>>4106872

I'm hurt.

But I'll always be around...

>>4106876

<span class="math">\def \d#1{{{#1}\atop{#1}}}\def \e#1{\d{\d{\d{\d{\d{#1}}}}}}\def \f#1{\e{\e{#1}}}\smash{\f{ {{{{{N \atop I} \atop G} \atop G} \atop E} \atop R} }}[/spoiler]

what is this i don't even

While it is nice that the Kepler mission is confirming that terrestrial, possibly even Earth-like planets are more common... I'll hold the celebration for when we find something with, say 10-20 light years.

You know... something that we could reach at subluminal speeds in a few centuries as opposed to hundreds of thousands of millenia

>>4106938
>10-20ly = centuries
>600ly = 100,000,000 years
does not compute

>>4106938

There are Gliese 581d at 20ly and HD85512b at 36ly which are potential candidates.

But it's not certain whether these planets have the temperatures for the existence of liquid water and thus life. It's something that will be certain when and if the James Webb Space Telescope will be launched, which would be powerful enough to measure the spectrum of light reflected from exoplanets and determine their atmospheric composition and existence of liquid water.