/sci/ - Science & Math

It's very possible that there are thinks we dont currently understand or know about the universe that would allow for FTL travel, or effectively FTL travel

>FTL doesn't exist

Neutrinos don't exist?

Suspended animation or multi-generation ships.

>>4070666
>FTL doesn't exist
YOU FOOL! DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOUVE DONE!
>we are forever doomed to be prisoners of our own solar system.
now youre pissing of the 500+ year lifespan people too, you just dont know when to quit do you?

neutrinos, mortality, space exploration
thats alot of piss to be geting of poeple.

>FTL doesn't exist
No one knows that for sure. It may even exist in some forms but be highly impractical therefore unexploitable.

>>4070678
>multi-generation ships
Who would volunteer to come aboard when they can't even reach the destination during their lifetimes?

We've just confirmed that neutrinos can, under certain circumstances, attain superluminal speeds. That doesn't prove FTL is going to be doable for humans, but it's no longer acceptable to just make a blanket declaration that FTL is impossible. We're no longer so sure.

>>4070700
Who said anything about volunteers?

>>4070700
In the future chilling out on a space ship for the rest of your life may be preferable to living on Earth.

>>4070700
I'm sure there are plenty of morons right here on /sci/ who would.

>FTL doesn't exist
forgive him father, hes just a simpleton and a fool!!!HE DOESNT KNOW BETTER ;_;

>>4070700
you know, being deep fried by an expanding sol or dieing on a comfy spaceship, its not that hard of a choice.

>>4070717
I don't think there will be a chance to pick between those two options. Sun will expand very slowly and earth will become uninhabitable only little by little and the space ships have left long before the last person dies on earth.

I think as long as we think in terms of surpassing the speed of light it is hopeless. Going FTL is meaningless if it's only twice the speed or something. 20 years becomes 10 years. We need at least 200 times light speed. (And it'll still be more than a fucking month to wherever. )

Basically we need to stop thinking about surpassing light and more like making it our bitch and laughing at anyone who thought we couldn't go faster.

If anyone reads this troll thread: what would it be like assuming we could directly zoom somewhere at dozens of times the speed of light? Would the destination be constantly flying to the side? Would you have to aim at blank space and hope the targeted system doesn't wander into and then back out of place suddenly?

Imagine it suddenly going supernova as you approached.

Actually pulsed nuclear propulsion can achieve one tenth the speed of light and take passengers to the nearest star within 45 years.

Therefore OP is mistaken, we do in fact have the ability to reach other stars within one person's lifespan, and with supsended animation the number of stars we can reach increases dramatically.

>>4070754
>200 times the speed of light

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_pulse_propulsion

>>4070754
id rather go dust some crops.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)

http://www.ted.com/talks/george_dyson_on_project_orion.html

>>4070785
>>4070799
>>4070813
>>4070806
Any form of transportation that is just "Hey guys, what if we blew up a bomb and rode the wave" doesn't deserve to be taken seriously.

>>4070848
when you put it that way...

>>4070848

That includes cars. Cars work by way of internal explosions that push pistons.

Simply saying "This seems unusual and frightens me because of the power involved" is not a valid argument against a technology. Expanding the performance of spacecraft means increasing the energy involved. We as a species have always progressed to harnessing more and more energy towards greater and greater tasks.

>>4070754
>Louis flew with his left hand on the panic switch.
>The kitchen slot to his right fed him odd-tasting coffee and, later, a handmeal that came apart in his hands, into separate strata of meat and cheese and bread and some kind of leaf. The autokitchen must be hundreds of years overdue for reprogramming. Radial lines in the mass indicator grew large, and swept upward like the second hand on a watch, and shrank to nothing. A fuzzy blue line at the bottom of the sphere grew long, and longer...Louis pulled the panic switch.
>An unfamiliar red giant glared beneath his feet.
>"Too fast," Louis snarled. "Too tanj fast!" In any normal ship you only had to check the mass indicator every six hours or so. On the Long Shot you hardly dared blink!
>Louis let his eyes drop to the bright, fuzzy red disc and its starry background.
>"Tanj! I'm already out of known space!"

I don't like this Project Orion method of propulsion because we need those nukes for when the aliens decide to invade.

there's no need to travel at lightspeed, create a very large worldship type thing and just many generations to get to another star. if there's nothing at that star, well, just keep going until you do find something

>>4070854
Cars do no work by exploding bombs. Combustion driving pistons isn't the same as riding a nuke.

NPP is like generating power from a fusion plant via exploding an H bomb and letting the force generated spin wind mills.

It's not the power involved, it's the method of harnessing it.

>>4070873
If we can build a world ship, why go anywhere? Just orbit the sun until it dies and then go somewhere else.

>>4070666
AHEM!
You can actually reach alpha centauri sooner than 4 years relative to your OWN time frame. ;)

>>4070666
>>4070754
>>4070754
>http://www.science20.com/alpha_meme/million_times_speed_light-83202
>http://www.science20.com/alpha_meme/opera_confirms_faster_light_neutrinos_and_indicates_ultra_su
perluminal_small_initial_jumps-84774
The reportedly faster than light neutrinos at OPERA may be a systematic error, but if these and those data of other neutrino experiments are correct, they hint at a phenomenon that propagates with very many times, perhaps millions of times the speed of light.

DUDE neutrinos are able to get MILLION TIMES faster than light.

>>4070872

We'd also need warships. Orion is the only type of very large vessel that can lift off from within Earth's gravity well.

>>4070874

Cars do no work by exploding bombs.

I did not claim they did. I said they operate by way of explosions pushing on pistons. It's the same principle, the fact that one explosive is a liquid and the other is a solid charge isn't relevant.

>Combustion driving pistons isn't the same as riding a nuke.

Analogies do not require the two things being compared to be identical.

>It's not the power involved, it's the method of harnessing it.

If there is no better method of harnessing it, then Orion is the only method we have. Internal combustion engines are only 15-20% efficient, but we use them because it's the most practical way to get energy out of gasoline.

What's really going on here is that you're OP, and you're angry that your premise isn't valid. You wanted reactions to the proposition that we will be forever stuck in our solar system, not examples of why that isn't true, so now you're trying to diminish the credibility of any methods we might use to visit other stars.

>>4070700

Who would sit in a can in a parking lot for two years pretending to go to mars...oh wait

Trust me, people would do this. I would fucking do this. Anything to get of this thankless dirtpile.

>>4070666
>>4070893
>>4070893
http://profmattstrassler.com/2011/09/23/how-to-make-a-neutrino-beam/
Make a Hiper superluminal bean yourself

>>4070893

We are not made of neutrinos. Our ships are not made of neutrinos. The fact that neutrinos can do this does not suggest that any other particles can.

>>4070912
Someone get cracking on a normal matter-neutrino converter.

>>4070666
>>4070893
A neutrino rocket powered by mass annihation would be interesting. Such a proposed vehicle is part of Frank Tipler’s work. Adam Crowl has pointed out to me that a gamma factor of 1,000 might be the highest we can practically achieve if we are to use a carbon shield capable of obtaining a temperature of about 3,000 K and wherein a mechanism exists to dissipate or radiate the heat away, people we have a neutrino rocket at sight

>>4070666
>>4070912
Dude... neutrinos are not massless also to every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction and there's already scientists thinking about how to make a neutrino rocket

>>4070932

>there's already scientists thinking about how to make a neutrino rocket

There have been scientists 'thinking about' how to build an Alcubierre drive for more than a decade. That doesn't mean it's possible.

>>4070917
who is adam crowl?

>>4070938
Neutrino rocket in an Alcubierre bubble.

>>4070938
>>4070666
>>4070936
http://crowlspace.com/
Some "Doctor"

>>4070666
>>4070938
Do you understand the tecnology to create one neutrino rocket is there already?

FTL may not exist, but you can go really fast and make yourself think it does.

As you get close to the speed of light, time slows down inside the spaceship. AKA you'll feel like your moving faster than the speed of light.

And while a 1 hour trip there might actually be a 20+ year trip for everyone else, its just a sacrifice you'll have to make.

Too bad you guys don't understand even the most basic and simple physics law: FTL travel IT'S IMPOSSIBLE.
Repeat, IMPOSSIBLE. You "hurr CERN calculations r right we ftl now" kids have to shut the fuck up, take a book and read about relativity

>>4070967
This.

And if wormholes are real we won't even have to sacrifice our lives in the modern world for space travel.

>>4070975
>>4070975
But relativity has been proven wrong, OPERA group confirmed FTL neutrinos reaching million times speed of light than light

>>4070975
BWAAAA A JEW TOLD ME IT MUST BE TRUE

>>4070975
> I lived less than 30 earth revolutions around the sun
> My species hasn't been around long enough to physically leave its own orbit
> I sure know everything that needs to be known about how the universe works.

You're like a mouse convinced it can't get out of its box because every experiments and observations show that it's impossible to walk through a wall. And one day you will see somebody open the box and you'll discover there is a world outside, and that the "can't escape the box theory" was extremely naive.

Science is never finished, physics is never complete. Nothing is impossible, keep that in mind.

>>4070996
They didn't fix the mistakes that many complained about the first time they did the experiment.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt though and say that the neutrinos WERE moving FTL.

That doesn't mean relativity is wrong.
Its more likely that they're traveling through time than it is that relativity is wrong.

>>4070975
BUWAAAA YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO GO FASTER THAN LIGHT NEUTRINO! BECAUSE EISTEIN TOLD ME THIS IS NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN

>>4071005
is the crying baby some shitty sci meme or something? why is is all over sci?

>>4071007
>>4071007
Relativists:NEUTRINOS ARE NOT FTL THEY JUST KNOW A SHORTCUT THROUGH EASTER BUNNY LAND
sorry but this is not science you look like a religious retard

>>4071007
>>4070666
DUDE confirmed evidence points to FTL neutrinos, you are just trying to protect something not worth the effort

ITT: retards who believe CERN's bullshit not published results.

There may be an explanation for "FTL" neutrinos that we have yet to find. Short-cuts through other dimensions, perhaps. Of course, if it does ring to be true, the standard model of physics will just be reworked to fit in this new piece that was missing before. Scientific method and all.

>>4071059
>>4070666
ITT:ASSMAD RELATIVISTS AND TROLLS

>>4070666
>>4071067
DUDE how is possible to "rework" something when its "core" is crushed?relativity is fueled by c and c has been proved just piece of fiction.

Funny, how /sci/tards already regard the neutrino thing as fact because they read it in mass media and now go "ZOMG we has warp drive soon!".
You guys have no idea how often similar claims are made but don't get any attention outside the science community.

>>4071085
Lawls. Bitch doesn't know about the scientific method.

>>4071094
>>4070666
>>4071067
DUDE this is not actually the case I was reading papers refuting FTL neutrinos...but everything they pointed look like a joke... untill now we got only weak or very weak arguments against FTL neutrinos, most of then are like this: "neutrinos are not FTL because this is not supposed to happen"

>>4071117
DUDE... no wai. DUDE.. what if.. DUDE. what if, like... DUDE.. what if, like, the universe is like.. DUDE. what if the universe is just a big brain cell. DUDE....

>>4071117
But that DIDN'T HAPPEN
CERN calculations are wrong, and even they realised by offering the data to true scientist just to REFUTE them.

Deal with it, this anti-relativistic bullshit won't last any longer

>>4071104
Oh you

>>4071069
>I'll resort to namecalling since I have no other argument to defend my stupid sci-fi religious beliefs mass media fuelled.

Explain why the fuck the gold is golden without relativity, fucker. Then I'll shut up. Meanwhile, stop spreading antiscientific bullcrap

>>4070666
>>4071137
Looks like DENIAL is strong in you
>another group ICARUS poiting the same thing
>http://arxiv.org/abs/1110.3763

>>4071153
>Our results therefore refute a superluminal interpretation

Can you read, dumbass?

>CERN calculations
>Not antiscientific bullshit made up to explain the billions eurofags are throwing daily basis in that bottomless cesspit, kept up just to compete with America.

Pick one

This is the best analysis and calculation of the unprobability of interstellar space flight I ever read from any SF author. enjoy!

http://www.concatenation.org/science/interstellar_travel_difficulties.html

>>4071166
Did you read the entire and understand the entire paper?
Data points to superluminal neutrinos but because there's no Cherenkov radiation detected they think its not the case...this is just full bullshit, they clearly are thinking neutrinos should behave like hypothetical tachyon.

>>4071201
>sci-fi

Stopped reading there

>>4071179
>the LHC has US funding too

and it has the budget of a mid sized university.

>2011
>children debatting about light speed travels
>younger generation stupid as fuck

>>4071220
That doesn't change the fact we can't take seriously their statements

>>4071233
go and play your galaxies wars and hush. Adults are speaking on here.

>>4071233 erde

>>4071041
>relativists
Back to Usenet, cuckoo.

>>4071250
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