/sci/ - Science & Math

>>4070663

because we can't explain how ancient people made those things

even with our tech it's hard

>ancient aliens came across hundreds if not thousands of light years straight to earth
>so that they could build animal-shaped runways in some arid mountains

>>4070682
>because we can't explain how ancient people made those things

let me spell it out for you

you take some stone tools... you use those tools to cut big limestone blocks... you get hundreds of slaves (or conscripted farmers, w/e) to move those blocks... you put one block on top of another until you have a big pile of blocks

very complicated stuff here

>>4070684
If I were a member of an advanced alien race I would take the occasional break from slaughtering the indigenous populations of other planets by doing something like that to troll them instead.

>>4070682
But that's completely and demonstrably false.

>>4070698
oh and weights suspended from bits of string and water filled ditches will make sure that the entire thing is very level, and the blocks have nice, straight edges

But they even have drawings and written accounts of how the pyramids were made, written by the people who made them...

>>4070720

do explain

The problem here seems to be the very prevalent idea that ancient people were stupid.

And as people get smarter, so does their technology.

It's like most people actually think that if people had 21st century intellects 8000 years ago they could have built a 21st century society in a single week.

>>4070720
well sort of

you have some vague hieroglyphics and illustrations but nothing that explicitly explains how the egyptian pyramids were made

if there were more than 3 mayan books still in existence then maybe we'd have a pretty good understanding of how pyramids were built in meso america

>>4070730
this.

Dem negros were probably rockin' the base60 numbers teching about in a completely different way to use.

I remember reading that they had like 10.000 slaves working on the Gyza Pyramid, and it still took 20 years.

That's pretty realistic to me.

One of two things. They either just really, really like the idea that it was aliens that did it, because NEATO, or they can't bring themselves to believe that a bunch of ignorant savages did something we'd have trouble with.

>>4070747
>ignorant

Those "ignorant" people invented Geometry, Astronomy and a good portion of Math.
Sound pretty competent to me.

>>4070743
Ancient Egyptians were Mediterranean, not Negro.

The idea is not that the alien civilizations built things like pyramids. It's that alien civilizations taught early man HOW to build them. There is also the idea that aliens visited, did very little to influence early man directly, but left an impression that's seen in artwork and sacred objects.

I don't buy it personally but it's a decent argument, at least one that could make some sense.

Picture related

>>4070759
Yes, but I'm talking about the sorts of people that want to push those inventions later into history so that they can say white people did it.

>>4070682
Try Slave labor, basic geometry, and practical physics. Shit people can learn without even knowing a language. Just because someone couldn't explain leverage in an equation, doesn't mean they didn't know it existed.

>>4070759
right

there were stone age and bronze age societies the world over that were extremely knowledgeable about mathematics

you need a degree just to grasp how much they really knew

but for some reason people like to imagine that the father back in time you go the dumber people are

the most prevalent example is the idea that everyone in Medieval Europe was retarded

get this guys: people in Medieval Europe did bathe, they did know a lot about science, and they didn't all believe that the world was flat

>>4070776
er, the farther back in time you go

>>4070776

That's awfully true.
Which is pretty infuriating considering what Brunelleschi did to Florence, and when Notre Dame de Paris was built.

>>4070805
Why is Notre Dame important again?

>>4070805
right

but everyone wants to believe that all intelligence vanished from Europe after Rome fell, and until Arabic influences brought it back during the Renaissance, everyone was herp a derp retarded

>>4070817

Because it's the biggest and most intricate building of all the Middle Ages, and it shows an ability by its architects which is, for the lack of a better word, outstanding.

>>4070817
why are the pyramids important

why is the taj mahal important

here, educated yourself

>Monumental Architecture - What is Monumental Architecture
>archaeology.about.com/cs/glossary/g/monumental.htm

>>4070817
why are the pyramids important

why is the taj mahal important

here, educate yourself

>Monumental Architecture - What is Monumental Architecture
>archaeology.about.com/cs/glossary/g/monumental.htm

>>4070843
Why are they?

>>4070852
monumental architecture is a hallmark of civilization anon

seriously, it's one of the criteria used by anthropologists and so on when classifying groups into "civilizations" or "societies"

when people get together and form big, complicated groups, they are driven to build big, complicated things

it's part of human nature

>>4070663
Its the same appeal to ignorance that's used to support creationism all the time. "I can't understand how X could have happened, therefore aliens."

>>4070861
But why is it important? Don't tell me its significance is whipping its dick out.

they used wooden constructions and ropes.
it can't be that complicated

>>4070986
really?

people knew how to move things around

>>4070866
It pretty much is. Pic related.

>>4070991
yep couldn't be done...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCvx5gSnfW4&feature=related

>>4071204
cool, thanks

I honestly believe if Aliens of some sort have or are still visiting the planet, they aren't going to reveal themselves.

In all seriousness, think about how much they could learn not only about us, but about themselves.

If the aliens are here, or were, you sure as shit aren't going to know about them.

There's one thing on that show that actually genuinely confused me. I would like an answer, if someone could:

I vaguely remember it, it was the one episode I watched a while back. It was saying how in like Iceland or something they found a bunch of these rocks from ancient peoples. These rocks (which were more of stone walls) were dated to being ~8000 years old or so.

There was this straight line carved across the middle of them along with some other decorations. This line was PRECISELY straight, 180 degrees entirely across -- at least 20m or so. It was also PRECISELY deep the entire way across. Like 3cm deep and a few cm wide, 100% perfectly all the way across.

They brought up how this would be impossible to do with ancient tools or a chisel, unless ALIUNNNS helped.

Help?

>>4071381
I remember seeing that article actually. Unfortunately I have about the same information as you do

>>4071381

That can't be true.

>>4071370
That seems quite silly.

>>4071381
>>4071392

http://daveearley.hubpages.com/hub/Ancient-Mysteries-Puma-Punku-in-Tiahuanaco

This?

I believe in God, believe it or not scifags, and even I think the "Pyramid is amazing, therefore people, especially these brown-skinned ones, didn't do it. ALIENS DID IT." theory is silly.

It's like how white people go to India or Mexico, etc. And doubt that the loincloth-wearing natives were even able to make their monumental structures. Without any wheel/pulley system. (Therefore, they talk about Atlantis and Viking building them.)

It's all prejudice and bigotry, in my opinion. I mean, can you believe that the almighty white people who went to the moon and made you cry because of their real and complex analysis, topology, fourier math, stochastic calculus, etc. ...Used to be loincloth-wearing, non-bathing, people who believe that if you don't sacrifice a virgin, Odin will go to your house and kill you?

>>4071537
I prefer not to waste time "believing in" things.

Present observable evidence that you actually are religious.

>>4070684
Planetary sculpting tools in spore. For bored or neurotic aliens. If you could doodle on the moon, wouldn't you?

>>4071553
i think most would draw genitalia

>>4071451
"Did they have advanced technology similar to ours, and then die off?

Maps have been found that would seem to support this theory. Maps such as the Piri Reis (1513), and the Oronteus Finaeus (1531), have been found that pre-date European discoveries. Not only are these maps precise, but they seem to claim that they are copies from even older maps.

These maps show the coastline of South America, rivers, and even part of Antarctica which was not thought to have been mapped until 1818. These maps contain landmarks, as well as depictions of the areas which appear to be very accurate. Some people don't believe that these maps could have been made without flying over these areas in the sky."

I share your resentment OP; this thread actually made me realize why alien belief is such a bad thing; conceptualization power is something organic and technology is based off of the mind.

I really think with all that advanced technology they would've done more than just stack some bricks.

Oh boy, Chariots of the Gods, I remember this book so fondly. In all, I found the author's "proofs" to be very weak. Really, it seems as if half of the stuff he comes up with is just pulled out of his ass and has no real foundation whatsoever. Other than that, it really seems as if he underestimates the abilities of past cultures and civilizations, and, sadly enough, his strongest arguing points are legends and stories that vaguely reference extraterrestrials.

>>4071545

Propositions are not proven false by lack of evidence but by existence of propositions that contradicts the truth of the initial statement. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is not just a slogan; it's a basic logical maxim. For example, the fact that the Earth is flat is not made false because of lack of any evidence supporting it, but because of a proposition that the Earth is round, which has been consistent in its probability and veracity.

>>4070682
>>4070682
Pyramids are easy to build, in fact they are a natural shape. There is a reason why universally most early large structures are domes and pyramids, they are forgiving and form from basic construction techniques (modern coal mines make pyramids all the time), and why modern skyscrapers took over 5000 years from the dawn of civilization (even middle age cathedrals use the basic property of pyrmaidism, as in their bases are wider than the tops)

>>4071866

In OP's case, we know that it wasn't aliens that are responsible for building the pyramids because of the existence of evidence, both implicit and explicit in various historical records and accounts not only through the monuments' builders but by other cultures those builders interacted with. So, no, just because there's lack of evidence that humans made them does not mean aliens made them. Rather, it is the existence of implicative evidence that ties the monuments to a human culture nearby. For example, Stonehenge was made by an illiterate, prehistoric people that left no written records. And yet it is implied by the existence of human culture (through artifacts such as tools, geometric patterns that are in themselves implicative of basic organized thought, etc) which makes us discount the notion that Merlin or aliens were responsible for Stonehenge.

It's not the lack of evidence that disproves the proposition, but the existence of a contradictory proposition.

>>4071558
>Some people believe
=Some people can't imagine how
That's because they're morons. For all we know some guy could've spent his whole life creating detailed maps with some ancient-but-ingenious mapping method.

Have you considered for a second that, given the nature of the Big Bang, once upon a time all of the planets and everything else were closer to the epicenter and some species evolved soon after the bang?

That would mean they could travel to other planets as easily as we traveled to our moon and use their technology to advance other planets/races.

They'd more than likely would've gone extinct in the 14 billion years since the Big Bang but we can't find any trace of any aliens because our universe keeps expanding, meaning we are further and further from their reach.

>>4071891

>some people don't believe = some people can't imagine
Fixed that for you.

>>4071895
Earth formed about 8 billion years after the big bang. Assuming linear expansion, planets would've been closer together, yes, but the distance would be still be incredibly vast.

>>4071901

Eight billion years is plenty of time for a race to come along, change things up, and go extinct.

>>4071900
It's easy to "imagine" aliens. I used to do that all the time when I was younger. It's much harder to imagine a solution that doesn't involve anything beyond our understanding.

Though I suppose that's why the proponents of these ideas are rarely from technical disciplines.