/sci/ - Science & Math

>>4065222
no you're not. You're just stupid. >>>/b/ will make you feel at home.

>generater
>balls of air are liter
>balls thew

The balls wont move.

At the point where the balls are going up through the little seal part...as soon as a ball goes through (or 'threw'), the water would pour (read: pore) out, hit the ascending ball would then (than) reverse (park) direction, and the contraption (mouse trap) would fail.

Wow, that actually took me a good second or two. I'm going to go read a book or something, good night Internet.

The water pouring through the "seal" or not is completely irrelevant, we can think of the water being held in place by some kind of scifi forcefield, impenetrable for the water and perfectly permeable for the balls.
Even is such ideal conditions it will still not work.

>>4065225
/thread

If you want real perpetual motion, take a look at the dippy bird.

lol noone has said why it doesn't work

you all just called fault with the engineering, and proceeded to say it wouldn't work

>>4065494

Not really. That's more like a "philosopher"'s definition of God.

>>4065314
It isn't perpetual, the water will eventually run out. has anyone ever tried scaling up the drinking bird

>>4065497
Actually this post explained:
>>4065225

The force you need to get a ball to enter the water at the bottom is equal but opposie to the bouyancy force resposible for the rising ball. So no net force, no motion, no energy, no profit.

>>4065934
Holy shit /sci/ it took that long to get the correct answer? Come on now people, you can do better than this.

it has been done
as i understand it; it is a ballanced system as designed

>>4065934
but there are many balls inside the water, while only one ball enters at any time

>>4066075
the image is from the russian pattent if i recall correctly
i am also op of
>>4063585

>>4066090

The water pressure at the bottom is large enough to counter the buoyancy force of all the balls currently in the water.

>>4065934

Don't forget friction means that you'll end up spending more energy than you'll create.

>>4065963
>Holy shit /sci/ it took that long to get the correct answer? Come on now people, you can do better than this.
are you fucking retarded? harriet posted the right answer within a minute of the thread being created you thick cunt.

>>4066127
Take your pills.

>>4066127
>Implying I'm going to read an image posted by some tripfaggot
>Implying you aren't samefagging and starting drama on /sci/ again for attention

Oh, my.

>>4066114
then why can't you just add more balls

>>4066130
shut the fuck up!, you have no fucking idea what your even talking about, you stupid prick

>>4066132
Take your pills.

Also:
>what your talking about

>>4066134
meh, it wasnt her picture anyway, i think she was just trying to take credit for it, but she clearly stole the picture off someone else
>samefagging
that was my first post in the thread, you fucking retard

>>4066135
you can, but this increases the rate at which balls are popping through the seal, which counteracts the bouyancy still.

>>4066137
twat

>>4066090
you are op?
i took a look at this one some time ago
in the design i posted in that pic there is an effort to use leverage
in summary; it still does not work
if you wanted to make it work i would suggest storing a part of the energy that is produced during the short time there is motion and use that to add to whatever process you are using to continue motion once it nears its ballanced stop
and at that time do not release all that was stored; only a percentage of the stored ammount - in some opperational systems this is the method used to build a stored supply of energy that is only partialy dedicated to the continued disruptance of the condition of ballance
it is then the stored supply that is tapped to do useful work
the 'buzzsaw gravity wheel' design opperates in this manner
if your objective is to do work this is one of the more powerful ways to accomplish the task
but at heart it is not a true perpetual motion in its mathimatical description
it is simply a clever gearing ratio being used to build the tension on a coil spring
only a small part of the stored energy is used to overcome the moment of ballance
from rest it does nothing until a force is added to it
a true perpetual motion will not have this as a charistic
besslers wheel would turn on its own from the moment it was unlocked from the floor
only when 'detractors' claimed that he had simply built a spring powered device did he make the effort to build two equal devices as one with their directions set opposed to each other
this had the effect of then requiring a push start in whichever direction of motion was desired
knowing how the interior is arranged i can say that this had the effect of locking in place the moving parts of the device which was being turned in reverse

>>4066142
Hi EK

>>4066142
Disgusting, self-righteous hypocrite. Take your pills.

>>4066150

>>4065222

What if the balls were chained very close together and there was more balls, water wouldn't escape from the bottom and also the buoyancy would push the balls up and the wheels would transfer that energy so balls would keep being pushed into the tank.

And free electricity.

>>4066160
the seal has to be pretty fucking firm to not leak any water, if it does leak, you are basically just very slowly (and not even definitely) just turning gravitational potential energy into electrical energy, very ineficiently.
if the seal doesnt leak, the force keeping it closed is still far stronger than the bouyancy of all the balls put together.

>>4066150
*too

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

>>4066172
How come you haven't taken your pills yet? Also, are your parents ashamed of having a child who's an emotionally crippled basket case?

>>4066181
i took them earlier, i dont need them again for another hour or so
>emotionally crippled basket case
lol, that isnt at all what i am

>>4066181
No you got it wrong. EK is just retarded. There are no pills for trisomy 21.

i see whats going on in here
this is now an ek thread..

>>4066256
nah, fuck off. im not in the mood

I'll bite. How about the buoyant force of water not overcoming the friction force of turning the wheel and the balls going around.

>>4066256
EK in thread. Thread confirmed for useless. Reported, ignored, saged.

>>4066261
why ? EK.. why?

It does work, the energy companies just paid all the physics textbooks to tell you that "entropy will increase" or some bullshit so you'll keep paying them zillions of dollars

100% true story bro trust me

Funny thing is that the Law of Thermodynamics aren't laws in the strict sense.

You know, if you take something like that to your local science academy they won't even look at you.

And the story behind that is that back then in the Second Industrial Revolution of course a hell a lot of people were trying to build perpeetum mobiles and they got tired of them, so they said: "No fuck off we made some laws which means you're wrong"

tl; dt the law of thermodynamics were especially made to prevent people to try. These laws cannot be proven and never been. They can be "common sense" but there is no common sense in science either.

>>4066127
>>4066132
fuck off you fat scottish cunt

at least your harriet personality has some fucking respect

>>4065222
the boyancy of the water wouldn't overcome the lenz forces produceing eddy currents in an alternator..

>>4066515
Her Harriet personality?

>>4065245

>>4066515
She is neither fat nor Scottish.

The troll is in the fucking picture. Stop replying.

>>4067187
Most people are immediately aware that it does not work, but the reason why is not so obvious.
This is worth discussing.

just because it has been pattented does not mean it works
link to russian pattent in pic
its a banned url though so i aint gonna try to post it here

there's a fucking woman on /sci/? impossibru!

>>4065222
You can replace the chain of air-filled balls by a closed flexible tube. Would you then still expect it to work?

The main term that a perpetum motion machine would have to fulfill is that it is isentropic. This is in real life impossible (now maybe it will be one day). Main reason friction.

The people who attempt to create such a machine are searching for answers in the wrong direction because key to creating the perpetum mobile is in the material sciense, creating a frictionless material (if it is possible at all).

The sole mechanism of the perpetum mobile is the easy part of the problem and there are a lot of paterns that would work, if friciton didn't exist.

>>4068834
you are right on the topic you focus on
but you fail to conceive of a mechanical arangement that would stirke you as obvious only after it being laid out before you
unless you do your own effort to discern it for yourself
i posted >>4066143
and >>4066099

>>4069551

So what are you saying there are prints for perpetum mobile available on the internet and it is not used because the oil companies are stopping it?

What would stop China from installing them, when their energetic companies are owned by the country?

huuuurrrrr everything exists but the evil oil corporations are not allowing it to develop durrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


Stupid engineers all around the world are busting their asses to bring up efficency of generators for a few percent. Such fools, if they only knew of the internet perpetum mobile from the 1712.

Why don't you show me a sketch of that machine of yours with exact measurments? I will start building it today if you are correct

>>4069561

Furthermore i have seen prototypes of machines that could spin forever in neutral regime. So basically a machine that is able to overcome it's own resistance, but it doesn't create energy, because it can't overcome the resistance of the generator.

>>4066150
+10 for revealing that E-whore is a hypocrite

People draw rough sketches of their machine and say, this will push this, this magnet will pull this magnet, this lever will push this lever.

Where are the dimensions of those parts? There is no print of a perpetum mobile with the measurments cause once you start actually dimensioning those parts you realise you are entering a loop and that at the end the circle doesn't connect.

>>4069561
treaties are in place that you would react to by falling into shock
agreements have been made and held to on matters far beyond your comprehension (no offence intended as LIMDIS is LIMDIS)
when deviding and conquering does it help to reveal you control both halves?
be they communist or capitalist
democrat or republican
the public are offered two sides of the same coin and told they have a choice
with a sufficiently limited knowledge of history all attempts at insight are skewed
dig deeper to see who is in contol of what

>>4068786
I was going to call you a retard, but you just solved the problem: there is no net force acting on the tube in that case since the condition before and after is the same: so no energy generation.

In the case of the balls you actually have the same: at some time t the system will be in the same conformation as at time zero. So in the time span from t0 to t the system will not change energy and no electricity will be generated.

thread/

>>4069600
op of >>4063585 here
at least as far as besslers design is concerned
you are closer than you know to explaining why the solution is not subject to forces as newton describes but is instead as described by airy

But... wait a second dudes!

What is we invent a material that would let the balls go threw the water ignoring the pressure like some kind of a giant magnetic field that makes the water float or sumething.

>>4069831
The problem was solved 1 minute after OP posted.
>>4065225
It doesn't matter how you create the lid, you have to lift the water to make room for the next ball, or whatever shape change there is.

>>4069561
are you still here?
just noticed your post
seems to be an offer
as far as getting control over it goes there is more to it than building it
i am earning more now than i have in the past with saving for that effort as one of my target goals
it would be very nice not to be alone in this
in the other thread i posted i mentioned explaining this to a person employed as a physicist
thats the only person who really understood what is occuring and it is a glaring obvious condition once laid out before you in description
as described historicaly its interior is in apearance far too simple to be worth so much
but your contentious attitude would most probably indicate future tensions even in the event of success
even so; enough information is present to contact me if you wish

Tripscum is just fucking unbearable.

Please PLEASE just let trips be a trap to get all the raging faggots to expose themselves so they can all be permanently banned en masse in one glorious and righteous exodus.

water will evaporate

>>4070612

Have you ever considered the possibility that you're right? Think about it rationally - you know, the way you used to think about important things before you fried your brain on drugs.

If you, sir no capitalization, are right and oil companies have managed to suppress everything except a couple of tiny websites on the internet that want you to pay for the plans (fucking what?) then >building it will probably get you killed by oil company ninjas.

I repeat. Your miserable, brainless, heavily damaged and filthy genes will leave the gene pool when the oil companies find you. This is a bad plan.

the true problem is there will always be friction.
even air and in this case water produces some level of friction and the entire idea of generators of this form is to convert the forward motion into stored energy which is basically a form of friction.

even if their was a waterproof, ball permeable field holding the water in place. The force against the ball trying to enter and displace water would negate the bouyancy force of the balls trying to float(not all forces are equal)
then if the field holding the water covered all sides to prevent loss due to evaporation the machine would freeze up because there would be no room for displacement and it would be like pushing the ball against a solid surface
given the friction of making the machine move plus the friction of cranking the generator it would actually cost you energy to turn it and best case scenario you would only get out the same energy put in minus whatever is lost to friction

don't get me wrong i also believe the oil companies are doing their best to hold down more renewable energy sources,
I've seen evidence of it personally several times in the auto industry, but hiding away perpetual generators is not something they're up to.

>>4070161
It didn't take into account that there are multiple balls in the water. Just wanted to clarify.

>>4072122
>>4072151
perhaps i did not make it clear enough that i am refering to the design of johann bessler or that i started a thread that is still alive but probably nearing page 15 by now
the bouyancy issues you describe are accurate
in the imagination of those who fail to grasp the forces at play liquids can appear to be able to do many things that reality will testify against
even so, the example i posted is no identical match to the one confounding op of this thread
i have posted in this thread several times and managed to place comments here that probably would have been more appropriate in the thread i started
if you really are not interested in what i have to say then you probably will not find the thread i posted
your responses are not the common short one liners seen here that seem to reveal the pavlovian effects of a few decades of overexposure to canned laughter by televised media
but from what i see so far your world view is based on a glimer of recent events
even the act of shutting tesla down and turning him into a servant of an asset was done by the already established structure that still stands unshaken
oil is a tool for control
it is difficult to grasp the scale of the lie