/sci/ - Science & Math

When do the water wars begin?

>>4048576

I suppose when we begin mining rare earths from the recently identified sites in the Pacific and China realizes it can no longer control global supply of those metals.

>>4048376

Awesome.

Which is harder to engineer; a moon colony or an undersea colony at 1000m depth?

>>4048610

Second one. But human colonies undersea would be in much shallower water. Just below the reach of storms, around 250 feet.

A moon colony has vastly less strict requirements except in terms of also needing radiation shielding. It only needs to hold in 1atm. A moon habitat module could even be inflatable.

Building a structure for living in space is easier, it's just harder and more expensive to get it to another planetary body.

When does colonization begin?

Thanks Mad Scientist.

Fuck you Mad Scientist.

>>4048578

>and China realizes it can no longer control global supply of those metals

boy are you ignorant

China never had monopoly over rare earth metals

even if it did, it would not be at all significant to the trade volume of China's economy

it is clear that you are a fucking moron that has watched too many anti-commie movies made during the 80's

dumb cunt

>Mad Scientist isnt a scientist.

>He dosnt even have a science degree.

>He works as a "graphics designer".

>Volunteering to be a guinea pig for underwater experiments while real scientists observe what happens to you under varying conditions is not at all the same as actually "conducting experiments underwater".

>>4048942
Have you followed what's been happening in the global mineral exchange in the last twenty years?

China has been selling cheap rare earths left and right, which has caused the decommissioning of rare-earth mines everywhere else in the world due to 'economic expediency'.

While China doesn't have a true monopoly, it's been estimated that if(or when) China starts to use increasing amounts of them in their own economy, instead of exporting, it would cause many more businesses to either fold or have to move their business to China.

>>4048955
>bashing one of the best contributors to /sci/
Feeling better now?

>>4048955
He's more of a scientist than anyone on /sci/ can ever accomplish.

>>4048959

another fucking idiot who has read one or two "end of the world because of China" articles and thinks he knows what hes talking about

first of all, the Chinese economy is NOT dependent on rare earth metals

furthermore:

> it's been estimated that if(or when) China starts to use increasing amounts of them in their own economy, instead of exporting, it would cause

the recommissioning

> of rare-earth mines everywhere else in the world

you fucking idiot

learn to demand X supply

if the supply curve shifts left while the demand remains static, it will just signal a new price equilibrium which will make the old sources of supply once again economically justifiable

NOBODY is going to go to war because the supply curve shifts slightly for rare earth metals you fucking idiot

US has its own steel industry for the purpose of national security and theres nobody else who is anywhere near the possibility of initiating a war because of rising "rare earth metal" prices

Thanks

>>4048972

What are you talking about.

A fair amount of posters here actually HAVE science degrees.

On average 10% of them would make it to graduate studies and be involved in actual scientific research.

Being a scientist isnt something as far fetched as being a rock star or pop sensation.

The very fact that you put "being a scientist" on a pedestal as such just shows how you are probably never going to become one.

It is entirely within the grasp of many.

>>4048990
>A fair amount of posters here actually HAVE science degrees.
That's just a misjudged anchoring effect, only about 0.7% of everyone that has even posted on /sci/ are even in the process of obtaining a degree in science, or anything academic for that matter; and any such assumptions are just wishful rather than factual. /b/ has more scientists than we do, even in NASA, /sci/ is one of the lower populations of the entire 4chan site.

>The very fact that you put "being a scientist" on a pedestal as such just shows how you are probably never going to become one.
Primacy effect, questionable reading comprehension, and an unfortified conception.

>>4048990

>A fair amount of posters here actually HAVE science degrees.

well actually most of them are probably just in the midst of doing their degrees

but yeah

even EK is more of a scientist (or at least will be) than that "Mad Scientist" ponce

>>4048990
Being a scientist doesn't require degree but rather the effectiveness of his knowledge and the usage of the scientific method he applies to whatever he works on. But then we're just encroaching on whether or not the general public should be allowed to do science.

>>4048999

> only about 0.7% of everyone that has even posted on /sci/ are even in the process of obtaining a degree in science, or anything academic for that matter; and any such assumptions are just wishful rather than factual. /b/ has more scientists than we do

It sure is fun plucking numbers out of thin air isnt it?

>Primacy effect, questionable reading comprehension, and an unfortified conception.

Wow look at you trying to sound all academic. Too bad your clumsy misuse of words gives it all away. Why use such big words to hide your insecurity? D'awww were you offended?

>>4048978
>the recommissioning
>learn to demand X supply
I have, and recommissioning takes time.
Amazing as it is, the people(in Washington D.C) who made that projection actually DID take into account everything you've just said.

And they still came up with the prediction that if China all but closes off the supply of rare-earths, it will be bad times for many industries.

Also, yeah, US has strategic steel.
But currently the importance of rare-earths surpasses steel in many areas, and their importance is just rising, while steel has been, and is, steadily falling.

Furthermore, I'm not a chinalarmist, but what you said earlier is just simply stupid.

And when you take the rising importance of rare-earths into account and combine that with their scarcity, you can probably see that finding new sources for them isn't exactly a bad thing.

And finally, keep a civil tone to your posts, your belligerent post sounds like that monkey-guy that's been trolling here recently.

>>4049004
>>4048990
>>4048955
>>4048942
>>4048936
ITT: Neckbeards who are jelly and probably posted >>4048598

>>4049008
there's nothing about his language that's misused, rather than the reader pointing it out who miscomprehend them, and just an assumption only proves the original authors claims, as well as the use of personal fallacies.

>>4049008
You're going to have to provide citations and evidence first before making such claims, this is a science board after all.

>>4048990
>The very fact that you put "being a scientist" on a pedestal as such just shows how you are probably never going to become one.
Tu quoque

>>4049005

>Being a scientist doesn't require degree but rather

Scientist: A person who is studying or has expert knowledge of one or more of the natural or physical sciences.

not just somebody who" uses the scientific method" or even a fanboy who gets a boner when talking about underwater adventures

you NEED a formal education in the sciences or are in the process of formal education to be a scientist, otherwise every fucking fool who cares about star wars would be a scientist

>>4049012

>there's nothing about his language that's misused, rather than the reader pointing it out who miscomprehend them,

seeing as how you yourself misuse the language, clearly you would not be able to identify poor and/or inadequate usage yourself

>that's misused

sadly ironic

>who miscomprehend them

this is just bad, but i wouldnt blame you if english wasnt your first language

>>4049018
Einstein learned the bulk of his science in the patent office rather than his university. Anybody can learn science on their own if they discover a means and process of comprehending it, and most scientists need to be able to translate such information into a language exclusive to them, rather than parroting and slap-dashing said information.

>>4049022

But Einstein wasnt considered a scientist whilst working in the patent office was he? (You fucking idiot)

>>4049021
See the other blokes >>4049016

Hey man you're the guy who put the hamster in the box and then stuck it in the lake right? It's been forever since I was on here, can't remember if that was you or someone else. Anyway, I think you're a cool guy. It's the public that needs to be more educated about science anyway, all these people complaining that you don't have an advanced degree are way off the mark.

>>4049025
No, but most of his education came from it, an area that wasn't intellectually demanding, an area where simple information managed to convert into complex ideas, making him imagine just speculations to them like how light interacts with gravity (for example), leading him to be the scientist we know him today. In fact he didn't even earn his PhD by traditional means, but rather rewarded it.

>>4049009

wow. just wow.

i know you dont know who i am or what i know.

but learn to fucking admit your own ignorance you stupid cunt.

dont try and debate with somebody (even though you dont know who it is), when you clearly only have superficial knowledge of the matter you are trying to debate upon.

if you dont know shit, and somebody points it out, dont instinctively try and defend your ignorance.

i KNOW that you dont know what youre talking about from what you have just said, so im just going to drop it because this would be a pointless exercise.

>>4049036
Ad hominem.

>>4049036
>i know you dont know who i am or what i know

>>4049032

So what?

You think Mad Scientist is on par with Einstein?

>In fact he didn't even earn his PhD by traditional means, but rather rewarded it.

>but rather rewarded it.

>rewarded it.

Fucking hell, you must be that samefagging idiot that the other anon must be yelling at right now.

And by the way, this isnt fair to point out your ignorance because I have actually read Einstein's biography, but he did begin his research and began publishing papers while he was affiliated with Zurich University.

>>4049039
>You think Mad Scientist is on par with Einstein?
NOW THIS is a primacy effect, unlike the other posters garbled definitions in this thread. Also a forced PE too.

>>4049039

Contd.

Which meant that he was actually a scientist before even beginning his work at the patent office. So you point by analogy is moot anyway.

>>4049042

Shut up and go away you samefagging idiot.

Youre wasting everybody's time.

(I wouldnt be surprised if youre "Mad Scientist" himself)

>>4049039
>And by the way, this isnt fair to point out your ignorance because I have actually read Einstein's biography, but he did begin his research and began publishing papers while he was affiliated with Zurich University.
About as much as an alumni would be affiliated with it, but his first papers were done working in the patent office and contained virtually no math whatsoever, before being picked up by Kleiner, and that was before Zurich.

>>4049043
No, he was just an undergrad that couldn't afford grad school, and failed so hard that the patent office was the only job he could get, and he had to have a friend get it for him.

>>4049050
>>4049053

The moment he published his first paper, no matter how obscure or absurd or unsubstantiated by "math", he was considered to be a scientist. Now what?

>>4049058
Yeah, and his first paper was done while still working at the patent office, making him a scientist before studying under Kleiner.

>>4049061

>and his first paper was done while still working at the patent office

No.

"Albert Einstein's first paper submitted in 1900 to Annalen der Physik was on capillary attraction"

"In 1900 Einstein was awarded the Zurich Polytechnic teaching diploma"

"In 1903, Einstein's position at the Swiss Patent Office became permanent"

What now?

On the subject of colonization; wouldn't underwater earthquakes be more of an issue than above ground ones, and if so, how hard would it be to find enough places safe from them that would be able to hold everyone? (Don't know if this is even an issue 250 down)

Long sentence pride.

>>4049072
His capillary forces straw paper was done while he was still an employee at the office, and as well as coming to the conclusion of spacetime connection of nature of light while in the process it. He would've never even got near Kleiner without it, or Eddington for that matter

But Weber was the one who picked Einstein up, Alberto switched to Kleiner...

>>4049039
Well, I'm glad to see that while I went to the store, you had nothing to say.

Hey let's see whats on /sci/ toda...

Oh yeah. You people are literally the worst. Look back about how long you have spent arguing about Einstein's fucking patent office. Thanks for reminding me why I never come here.

>Mad Scientist isnt a scientist.

I never claimed to be. The trip isn't intended to constitute such a claim. It's

>He dosnt even have a science degree.

It actually is a bachelors of science for some reason. Still, not a scientist.

>He works as a "graphics designer".

No I don't. Graphic designers work primarily in photoshop, illustrator and other 2d design programs. My area of study was 3d modeling for films and games. I specialize in technical hard surface modeling (machinery) and now provide modernized 3d visualizations for the new Expeditions website. The originals were done some time in 1996 and it shows.

>Volunteering to be a guinea pig for underwater experiments while real scientists observe what happens to you under varying conditions is not at all the same as actually "conducting experiments underwater".

I've constructed a low cost diving helmet I'll be using while there with the intent to attract investors for mass production. Helmet diving requires no scuba certification and could be a safe introduction to the underwater world for ordinary people on a budget. I will also be testing a plant based CO2 scrubber that circulates air from inside the habitat through a loop of enclosed grow beds. Every crew member has their own experiment or prototype equipment they will be testing.

>NOBODY is going to go to war because the supply curve shifts slightly for rare earth metals you fucking idiot

I'm aware. I was replying to someone looking for a rationale for some imagined futuristic naval war. I indulged him. I don't really think it would happen.

At some point, it seems I gave you good reason to hate me. I don't remember you, or having done anything unreasonable to earn your hatred, but it must've been pretty heinous. I apologize.

It's also the case that many people here show me affection and deference I don't deserve, and onlookers interpret that as arrogance on my part, assuming I must invite that affection and revel in it. I don't, for the most part I ignore it as I realize how it would look if I showed any enjoyment. I am a guy who puts hamsters underwater, and who has the good fortune to be involved in some exciting projects organized by great men with resources and brilliance I don't have. None of that is down to my own merit.

So if either of those accounts for why you seem intent on taking me down a peg, it's not necessary. I don't have the high opinion of myself you seem to have assumed. It is instead to my own great benefit that I've found this board and am able to gather advice, feedback and inspiration from the many clever, inventive people who frequent it. When I spend my 24 hours undersea, and later two weeks in the Mars Desert Research Station, all of you will be going with me in spirit.

>Mad Scientist isnt a scientist.

I never claimed to be. The trip isn't intended to constitute such a claim. It's a trip.

>He dosnt even have a science degree.

It actually is a bachelors of science for some reason. Still, not a scientist.

>He works as a "graphics designer".

No I don't. Graphic designers work primarily in photoshop, illustrator and other 2d design programs. My area of study was 3d modeling for films and games. I specialize in technical hard surface modeling (machinery) and now provide modernized 3d visualizations for the new Expeditions website. The originals were done some time in 1996 and it shows.

>Volunteering to be a guinea pig for underwater experiments while real scientists observe what happens to you under varying conditions is not at all the same as actually "conducting experiments underwater".

I've constructed a low cost diving helmet I'll be using while there with the intent to attract investors for mass production. Helmet diving requires no scuba certification and could be a safe introduction to the underwater world for ordinary people on a budget. I will also be testing a plant based CO2 scrubber that circulates air from inside the habitat through a loop of enclosed grow beds. Every crew member has their own experiment or prototype equipment they will be testing.

>NOBODY is going to go to war because the supply curve shifts slightly for rare earth metals you fucking idiot

I'm aware. I was replying to someone looking for a rationale for some imagined futuristic naval war. I indulged him. I don't really think it would happen.

Anyways, at some point it seems I gave you a good reason to hate me. I don't remember you, or having done anything unreasonable to earn your hatred, but it must've been pretty heinous. I apologize.

It's also the case that many people here show me affection and deference I don't deserve, and onlookers interpret that as arrogance on my part, assuming I must invite that affection and revel in it. I don't, for the most part I ignore it as I realize how it would look if I showed any enjoyment. I am a guy who puts hamsters underwater, and who has the good fortune to be involved in some exciting projects organized by great men with resources and brilliance I don't have. None of that is down to my own merit.

So if either of those accounts for why you seem intent on taking me down a peg, it's not necessary. I don't have the high opinion of myself you seem to have assumed. It is instead to my own great benefit that I've found this board and am able to gather advice, feedback and inspiration from the many clever, inventive people who frequent it. When I spend my 24 hours undersea, and later two weeks in the Mars Desert Research Station, all of you will be going with me in spirit.

>>4049946
When are you going underwater?

Goddamn Mad Scientist is worse than Harriet and that phobos faggot combined

there's no need for a colonisation. people won't go there to live there because there is no sunlight. There will only be living containers for those who work there, like in arctic Russia.

>>4051861
I like him.

His threads are interesting.

>>4049946
I like you bro....I think other people are projecting on you like mad right now.

>>4053109
>there's no need for a colonisation.

That's true. There's no need for lots of stuff, like suburbs. We have them because people wanted access to cities without sacrificing country living, individual homes, patches of natural land, etc.

Not everything we do is out of necessity. People will pay for things they desire.

>people won't go there to live there because there is no sunlight.

Yes there is. Sunlight reaches down measurably to 3,000 feet, visibly to 600 feet, and the colony is at 250 feet. At that depth sunlight is plentiful, and in fact very beautiful; There's an everpresent blue glow, a fog effect receding into the distance, rays of light cast down from the shimmering surface above...it's really something.

>There will only be living containers for those who work there, like in arctic Russia.

But factually, there is already a civilian colony in the works. So there will be at least one. Underwater laboratories already exist, albeit in smaller numbers today (about 4) than in the 1970s (hundreds).

>>4053174

>I think other people are projecting on you like mad right now.

I think you're right, but it seems like it's just one guy. That doesn't make it reasonable to ignore him though, even if we'd never meet again. I want to know why he thinks that about me and correct any misunderstandings we might have. I don't like having enemies.

>>4051846

July 2013. Although, I did my own little expedition to the bottom of the Columbia river in my homemade diving helmet just recently. It was a surface supplied air setup with an electric compressor, battery pack and solar array. I only had about 45 minutes per dive, and I split that time with my awesome nephew who was brave enough to try it out too. :D

The Mk.II design will put the batteries, pump and panels on a floating buoy overhead so I am not chained to the shore by 200 feet of air hose.

>mfw the video is not available in my country

Dear Mad Scientist,

How are you?

The reason I am contacting you regards your knowledge of the sea. Recently there has been a discussion over connecting Europe to America.

Because you are a respected trip in your field, we would like your opinion on building underwater tunnels.

Sincerely,

Pascal

thanks for the vids mad scientist watching now.

>>4053549

It's absolutely doable; not as a submerged titanium tunnel but as a tunnel dug into the rock far beneath the ocean floor. It should be vacated of air, as close to vacuum as possible so that trains can travel fast and frequently enough to make it economically worth it. The tunnel can be divided into sections with safety doors and diversion tunnels the train can go into if the main tunnel suffers a collapse or loss of vacuum.

>>4053655
how do you dig into the bottom of the ocean with all of the heat and pressure? how can the tunnel sustain the pressure and heat? what do you do about magma? the continental shelf? under water mountains?

>>4053780

You start on land.

>>4053402
Does this underwater project have a website?

>>4053846

Yes: www.underseacolony.com

Fair warning; the documentary is speculative fantasy. The reality of subsea colonization is somewhat more modest, as seen in the picture. The initial demonstator habitat houses only 4, and the colony starter hub houses 16 (4 families). Everything has to be prefabricated on land and then ferried out by barge. We are not yet to the point where it's possible to actually construct these enclosures while on the ocean floor.

If a group started with the tools included in the Global Village Construction Set, what equipment for an ambient pressure underwater habitat would they likely be unable to produce themselves?

http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Global_Village_Construction_Set

>>4054006

There isn't much. Ambient habitats are dead simple. Although in a situation where you had a group trying to build a modern technological civilization on an island using those tools, the only real utility of ambient habitats would be for scientific research and to facilitate open ocean fish farming and other aquaculture projects. Aside from those, there's just not much use for them, hence why only four are left.

However that is absolutely one of the better ways they could multiply food production, by allowing people to live onsite and monitor/harvest/maintain the farms daily instead of monthly, and the lab space could be rented out to marine biologists. It would also bring in tourism revenue, as there's currently renewed interest in underwater resort/hotel/restaurant destinations.

They would likely be inflatable like this one but large enough to stand up in, with surface supplied air lines from shore and power for lights, heat and dehumidification. They could also be cheaply built from sheet metal but that would make it more expensive and difficult to provide a good view, as you'd need to size, cut and mount plexiglass windows. The inflatable hab approach is the cheapest as it basically amounts to an aqua tent.

>When I spend my 24 hours undersea, and later two weeks in the Mars Desert Research Station
>July 2013
So you'd be doing the Mars Desert Research Station in July/August of 2013?
I thought MDRS was a winter thing, and didn't they just decide who they picked to participate this winter a few weeks ago?

>>4054925

Naw, the MDRS mission is March to April, this year. The Atlantica Expedition stage 1 mission is in July of 2013.

They did in fact make their picks recently. I was notified of my selection by email. I applied about a month prior.

I'm planning to subsist entirely on spirulina and vitamin C tablets during the mission as a demonstration of Spirulina's nutritional near-completeness and viability as a food for Mars colonists. You can make more nutrition that way in a smaller space, the tablets take forever to go bad, the algae farming tanks can be fed wastewater from the habitat (which it will purify) and it can also absorb CO2 and produce oxygen. Makes good sense imo.

Pic related, ideal space food.

Hey Mad, what is it that made you love the oceans so much?

>>4054985

years ago I did a submarine tour of crashed WW2 planes around some Hawaiian reefs. Later on the same trip I did scuba diving. Nobody scuba dives just once, it affects everyone, just to different degrees.

For me it was hypnotic, and after a time I forgot that I had a limited air supply. I felt very much like I lived there, like I could eat and sleep there for the rest of my life. Having to surface and leave was a rude awakening. By comparison the surface was too bright, too loud, too hot and harsh, too buggy and so on. Being weightless, surrounded by a gentle blue glow, seeing undulating rays of light cast down from the shimmering sky-like surface and planting my toes into the soft sand of the ocean bed made me wonder how it is that we're considered better evolved for land. Everything about it seemed less comfortable and welcoming than the underwater world.

Obviously eventually your air runs out and the illusion is broken. But for some there is a powerful desire to return, better prepared, and make a way to live down there as a permanent resident.

Besides, don't you get tired of the relentless focus on space? What possible adventures are there to have on Mars, other than going there? It's a cold, red desert. The ocean is full of life, beautiful and mysterious, with so much left unexplored that there are still adventures waiting to be had there. We *need* to go to space for practical reasons, but I don't understand anyone who doesn't also *desire* ocean exploration.

>>4054985

years ago I did a submarine tour of crashed WW2 planes around some Hawaiian reefs. Later on the same trip I did scuba diving. Nobody scuba dives just once, it affects everyone, just to different degrees.

For me it was hypnotic, and after a time I forgot that I had a limited air supply. I felt very much like I lived there, like I could eat and sleep there for the rest of my life. Having to surface and leave was a rude awakening. By comparison the surface was too bright, too loud, too hot and harsh, too buggy and so on. Being weightless, surrounded by a gentle blue glow, seeing undulating rays of light cast down from the shimmering sky-like surface and planting my toes into the soft sand of the ocean bed made me wonder how it is that we're considered better evolved for land. Everything about it seemed less comfortable and welcoming than the underwater world.

Obviously eventually your air runs out and the illusion is broken. But for some there is a powerful desire to return, better prepared, and make a way to live down there as a permanent resident.

Besides, don't you get tired of the relentless focus on space? What possible adventures are there to have on Mars, other than going there? It's a cold, red desert. The ocean is full of life, beautiful and mysterious, with so much left unexplored that there are still adventures waiting to be had there. We *need* to go to space for practical reasons, but I don't understand anyone who doesn't also *desire* ocean exploration.

>>4055021
what game is on your pic?

>>4055030

Anno 2070.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa4LTYmpkzU

Like everyone else with their head on straight, they've singled out expansion into the sea as one of the logical next steps our species will take in the decades to come.

>>4055034
> Like everyone else with their head on straight, they've singled out expansion into the sea as one of the logical next steps our species will take in the decades to come.

Totally asinine. Living IN WATER is totally incompatible with Human living. Water DESTROYS all our works and tools. Our skins are DRY. We breather AIR. There is no intersection between 99.9% of Human living and living UNDERWATER.

Humans don't live UNDERGROUND either. One of the massive ironies of THAT is that Humans when underground are exposed to TOO MUCH GROUNDWATER.

You seafags are FAGGOTS. Colonizing the ocean SURFACE is about 10 times easier and less costly and at least 5 times less risky. But you're FAGGOTS and will never admit that.

MadScientist, maybe you'll be able to help.
I watched a documentary a while ago that was really old, probably 70s-80s in which a group of scientists go to the seafloor to capture a sea dandelion in a container. Know what it's called?

>>4055021
>Besides, don't you get tired of the relentless focus on space? What possible adventures are there to have on Mars, other than going there? It's a cold, red desert. The ocean is full of life, beautiful and mysterious, with so much left unexplored that there are still adventures waiting to be had there. We *need* to go to space for practical reasons, but I don't understand anyone who doesn't also *desire* ocean exploration.
I love both concepts.

Partly for economic reasons, partly for survival ones, partly because they're both fucking awesome, partly because I grew up at the time when Cousteau and the Elite(game) were big, and partly because wanderlust and a hankering for a frontier.

>>4055046

>Our skins are DRY. We breather AIR. There is no intersection between 99.9% of Human living and living UNDERWATER.

We came from the sea. Our blood and every other bodily fluid is saline. The exact same salinity of ocean water. Our bodies are buoyant, we have subcutaneous fat instead of fat marbled into the muscles, we have an instinctive ability to hold our breath and swim, traits we conspicuously share only with cetaceans.

It is not such a stretch that we would feel at home in the sea.

>Humans don't live UNDERGROUND either.

Actually, many do. Several northern cities like Toronto and Montreal are 50% or more underground, due to the low cost of expanding downward versus building skyscrapers and the low cost of heating/cooling a naturally insulated and thermally stable space. An entire city in Australia is underground due to the intense surface heat, with only a single surface building for visitors. The underground is another major frontier that we will expand into as a refuge from the effects of climate change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coober_Pedy,_South_Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_underground_city
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_PATH

You don't seem to know a whole lot about anything you've discussed so far but you persist in behaving as if you do. Allow for the possibility that your worldview is incomplete, and be receptive to filling those gaps with information from others who have devoted more time to studying topics you're unfamiliar with.

>>4055021
How did you get involved in both these things?
I want to be apart of a mars research station god damnit.

>>4055067
>and partly because wanderlust and a hankering for a frontier.

I see we are kindred spirits. But look around you, you're surrounded by new frontiers. We just haven't recognized them as such until now. The ocean, for industry, energy and aquaculture. The desert, for construction of solar convection power plants. The antarctic, for minerals and oil. The underground, for living space and refuge from rising temperatures. The way forward isn't simply up into space or down into the ocean; it's expansion in all directions. That is the nature of the new frontierism which is beginning to emerge and take hold.

Many see the comfortable, narrow niche we've been thriving in for the past several millenia shrinking due to our own actions and mistakenly believe we're on the brink of collapse or even extinction. In fact, precisely because we're being pushed out of our comfort zone, we stand on the verge of the greatest adventure yet.

>>4055068
> You don't seem to know a whole lot about anything you've discussed so far but you persist in behaving as if you do.

False. Wrong. I've totally countered your "seabro" so-called arguments and you can't fucking STAND IT. Humans are surface dwellers. There is NO SUCH THING as an underground city despite your distracting FAGGOTRY about some use of earth as insulation. Humans require access to the open air. Our skins are DRY. We breathe AIR. We only swim with distinct RARITY.

The REAL thing going on here is that you get a charge out of diving, and your DIVEFAGGOTRY becomes a motivation to persuade others to do the same. WRONG WRONG WRONG.

Water does nothing but DESTROY our tools and equipment. We HATE water. We constantly wage a HUGE WAR ON WATER in order to remain dry and wealthy. So SEAFAGGOTS like you imagine that people will move INTO water as a colonization effort? MASSIVELY WRONG.

You SEAFAGGOTS have GOT to be fucking trolls.

>>4055074

I happened to meet the Expeditions founder while in Florida. While talking, my love of the sea and various projects came up. It turned out there was a vacant spot for the 2013 mission, and I was able to talk my way into it. As the Expeditions shares many members with the Mars Society (including James Cameron, would you believe it?) this also provided me a foot in the door for an open spot on MDRS 116.

>>4055082
> I've totally countered your "seabro" so-called arguments

Actually you didn't address any of them. And you were embarrassingly wrong about underground habitation. I get that you're out to rustle some jimmes, but my jimmies reside within dual titanium pressure vessels rated for 36,000 feet.

>>4055089
> Actually you didn't address any of them.

I addressed ALL OF THEM by merely pointing out the irrefutable truth that Humans are dry surface dwellers.

Faggot.

> And you were embarrassingly wrong about underground habitation.

Essentialyl NO Humans are underground dwellers. You didn't disprove that IRREFUTABLE TRUTH whatsoever.

Faggot.

> I get that you're out to rustle some jimmes, but my jimmies reside within dual titanium pressure vessels rated for 36,000 feet.

Nobody's gonna fund your SEAFAGGOTRY. You're just another pasty-white, basement-dwelling, virgin-nerd Cheetos-eater who lives in a fog of delusion. Nobody's gonna build that underwater stuff for COMMON RESIDENTIAL PURPOSES. It's not done, and it will never be done. Long before overpopulation becomes a problem, we will indulge in WARS WITH MEGADEATH SCALES to get rid of the excess.

>>4055068
Don't bother replying to him. Think of him as Æther Volume 2 and ignore.

>>4055078
I think the current society is just bureaucratizising itself too much. Anything that doesn't involve a 9-5 job, two cars and living in an apartment gets formspammed to death. I had to do six months of paperwork just to get the necessary permits to open up my own business.

If you've read The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress, the epilogue where Manny thinks of leaving the increasingly regulated Luna for the asteroids rather appealed to me.

>>4055082
>>4055096

>this guy

Wow this guy is a total douche
I was actually enjoying this thread until this FAGGOT came along.

>>4055021
Sounds like some raptures of the deep, how far down did you dive?

>>4055100
>If you've read The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress, the epilogue where Manny thinks of leaving the increasingly regulated Luna for the asteroids rather appealed to me.

Seasteads might be for you. They will probably become pretty rough, crime ridden places after a while though. If that suits you, knock yourself out. We'll always have a pod waiting for you on the conshelf if you decide you'd prefer a nicer neighborhood.

>>4055105

Only 30 feet or so. I've had rapture of the deep, I do know the difference (had it so bad one time I began to hallucinate.)

It's not limited to just that euphoric effect though; Living under pressure also reduces the barrier to neuronal discharge, increasing brain activity, contributing to the feeling of pleasure and excitement. And the increased oxygen availability in the atmosphere means that wounds heal three times faster, and sleep is incredibly restful.

Being there literally makes you happier and healthier, provided you don't go too deep.

>>4055108
Might be. I could imagine taking a stint in both for a while, since I've never actually settled down to one job for more than five years at a time.

What ever happened to the Poseidon Underwater Hotel?
Wasn't there a few other ones to?

>>4055150

Poseidon and Coral World are the two ones that are still happening. Hydropolis was cancelled last I checked. The modules for Poseidon are being built in my city. The ones for Coral World are being built by the same company but elsewhere. There's been some legal dispute over subsea land rights that forced the Poseidon project to relocate to Fiji, but now construction is progressing. It was originally supposed to be done in 2008.

If you've gotta visit an undersea hotel right away, there's always the Jules and Ithaa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpGcp_2IPpA

News report on Coral World Park, probably the one to finish first as it's being funded by an existing resort/hotel complex and is merely an extension of what they already have on land. Poseidon is starting from scratch and on shakier ground.

I'd be surprised if Sea World doesn't eventually commission a similar undersea attraction off the Florida coast.

>>4053655
I know not much about plate tectonics but wouldn't it be more problematic to make a tunnel that goes right through the Mid-Atlantic Ridge instead of the underwater floating tunnels they already designed?

>>4055169
>instead of the underwater floating tunnels they already designed?

Show me.

>>4055211
Not that guy, but:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submerged_floating_tunnel
http://current.com/technology/89042567_plans-for-a-4-000mph-underwater-train-from-new-york-to-london
.htm

>>4055227
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submerged_floating_tunnel

I built that shit in Minecraft without having any clue it was an actual concept being considered for implementation irl. I have no face right now.

>>4055230
I'm surprised you hadn't heard of the concept.

>>4055234

I may never have a face again. Hory shet.

Imagine taking such a train to a floating 'sea station', hovering 300 feet deep, where passenger submarines dock to take tourists to various colonies in the region. ALL of my rupees.

Even without floating docks, trans oceanic travel would be revolutionized.

Too bad it won't get built for the same reason the space elevator won't.

>>4055264
>same reason
which is...?

>>4055267
No short term profits.

>>4055451

Except, you know, from charging companies to use the tunnel to ship products faster than is possible by air.

This might be the best way to replace air freight as oil runs out.

>>4048376

Mad Scientist, out of curoisty, have you been playing Anno 2070?

You probably should, it's right up your alley.