/sci/ - Science & Math

>Two europeans megaprojects.
>One is half in France, the other completely in. Britain begin dickwaving.
>mfw this spark France/UK dickwaving, using science projects

PIIGS will fuck it all up for them. Don't worry though, China will step in and carry the torch.

If we lower taxes on corporations, they'll surely use their extra money to finance science.

Is this even possible? Wouldn't this interfere with conservation of energy?

>>3977933

why can't we have big project like this ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_magellan_telescope

>>3977939
Because it's not *snicker* immediately economically beneficial.

Lending energy to virtual particles to make them real?
Exciting stuff.

I wonder if this could be made to distill antimatter more efficiently than the LHC.

>>3977946
>mfw when this shit suddenly started making sense to me.

Thank you sci for teaching my dumb ass. Also how would you isolate the 2 virtual/real particles from each other?

>>3977940

But the JWST would have been perfect ,no atmospheric interference ,nearly 4 times farther than the distance between the Earth to the Moon,6.5 meter diameter gold-coated beryllium reflector with a collecting area of 25 m2 etc

>>3977949
well unfortunately my friend the JWST may be cancelled.

>>3977946

It would be awsome if they could create antihydrogen

>>3977958

>yfw you realize America is going to become a shitty backwater that everyone uses to contract military ops while they develop superscience

>>3977978
Who gives a shit? You aren't tied to this land. Move.

>>3977948
In the article it says that the laser would already separate one from it's partner. After that, electromagnetic separation perhaps?

It's already been said before, that since the LHC wasn't designed for the production of antimatter, it's capacity for doing so is diminished.

>>3977978
>you are huge army
>that means you have huge air forces
>SHOCK AND AWE

>Worlds-most-powerful-laser-to-tear-apart-th
e-vacuum-of-space
Is this the famous Exterminatus?

>>3977980
>2011
>not getting tethered to your country

>>3978000
No, the exterminatus just tears apart planets. This is a lot more powerful.

>>3977997
>huge army
>huge air force
>can't win war against primitive insurgent

Dear Americans
Stop bitching about your science. Look at the Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer which will probe much higher energy than CERN could dream of.

>>3977920
>those comments
Jesus fucking christ. Every god damn time. Why do I always need to read the comment section when things like this are posted?

>>3978025
It was a joke referring to the origins of his picture.

>mfw I got THIS pic from wikipedia

>>3978030
I usually don't read the comments on any scientific news, exactly because I already KNOW there's nothing if value there.
>ether
>why lazors and not ending world hunger
>big bang is stoopid
>this is a huge waste of money, they should build more aircraft carriers
Oh my gods, someone actually still believes there's an ether? Seriously?

Fuck you for getting me to read those.

>>3977978
Realized that many years ago my friend, I'm finally at stage 2 of my escape from America plan.

Sadly if the USD doesn't come up in value I'll be stuck at stage 2 for a while.

>>3978047
>instruction_alien_nuclear.jpg
Any more of those?

>>3978048

Actually the dollar is going to drop another 20-some % in value so you might want to hurry up

>>3978055
[citation needed]

>>3978052
Sorry, I made that one myself and never saved any others.

Sorry, I'm an idiot, but is the article suggesting that all the dark matter/dark energy in our universe is a combination in mass of all these ghost particles at a point in time before they fizzle out?

>Worlds-most-powerful-laser-to-tear-apart-th
e-vacuum-of-space

Those godless europoors are going too far.. Jesus wont allow this. Mark my words.

« The European Commission has already this year approved plans to build three other lasers that will form part of the ELI project and will be prototypes for the Ultra-High Field laser. »

«The Ultra-High Field laser will be made up of 10 beams, each twice as powerful as the prototype lasers, allowing it to produce 200 petawatts of power – more than 100,000 times the power of the world's combined electricity production – for less than a trillionth of a second. »

>Meanwhile in United States

>>3978119
>>3978128

>>3978128
what's so great about this? what can it do?

>>3977920
OP has forgotten ITER project

suck it amurrika !

>>3978133

yeah i forgot about the tomahawk fusion reactor

at least america have this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yixhyPN0r3g&feature=related

but « The UK has formally joined forces with a US laser lab in a bid to develop clean energy from nuclear fusion. »

link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14842720

>>3978148

>tomahawk fusion reactor
>tomahawk

GET THE FUCK OUT.

>>3977920
Wouldn't this disprove the second law of thermodynamics?

>>3978148

I read this as Tony Hawk fusion reactor

I'm off to play some TH2

>>3978171

haha sorry i spelt it wrong « tokamak »

>>3978192
thats a hell of a typo

>>3978187
No. Virtual particles are a well-established phenomenon.

Put in very simple and approximate terms, the virtual particles borrow energy from the zero-point of vacuum when they pop into existence, annihilate each other, and the energy is returned back to the zero-point of vacuum.

Don't believe me? Google Casimir Effect.

The time-scale is low enough that no energy is created or lost.

The way this experiment would work is that the virtual particles would gain energy from the laser, becoming real particles, since the energy debt would be paid by the laser instead of the particles.

This is also how the hawking radiation is thought to work at the edge of the event horizon of a black hole, except there the energy debt would be paid by the mass-energy of the black hole instead of a huge fucking lazor.

>>3978209
>virtual particles would gain energy from the laser
That saves it I guess. I wondered why they wanted to use a laser.

>>3978230
Uh, why wouldn't they use a laser?
Photons don't need an accelerator, and they are great at releasing their energy to subatomic particles if you use high-enough frequences.

What would you have used?

>>3977938

> The conservation laws are definite

They can be broken, they are broken, and it's alright.

>>3978256
>broken
no, see
>>3978209

>>3978048

what's stage 2?

>>3978242
The traditional way of doing this in thought experiments disproving 2nd law of thermo (hence my jumping to thinking that this would do so, kind of like you'd answer 9.8 if someone said 'at what speed does a ball accelerate when dropped' then they'd laugh and say "not on mars!" - I didn't actually bother reading the thing because this is so well known) is to use an attractor, breaks conservation since the attractor doesn't give up energy, merely prevents the annihilation, hence breaking the second law.

>>3978270


They can still be proken.

>>3978288
Yes, but in these scales, the annihilation would happen too soon for any kind of physical attractor to have a chance of influencing them. At least not in any way to net produce energy. Even the casimir effect is like magnets, so to extract energy from the vacuum, you would always have to drag the surfaces back away from each other, leading to net loss.

>>3978293
Examples? The heat death is a special case and doesn't count.

>The ELI Ultra-High Field laser is due to be complete by the end of the decade

10 years to build 1 laser? shit are they even trying?

>>3978311
>build ten of the most powerful lasers ever
>shit's still partly in design phase
>the accuracy requirements are, in a word, extreme
>"why is this taking so long"

YES, MORE SCIENCE

I hope they just fucking do it, fuck poverty and other human bullshit. THIS IS SCIENCE!

Earth will become a death star!!!

>>3978302

Chiral anomaly, and neutrino oscillation.

>>3978345
I might not understand those well enough, but they don't seem to really break the conservation of energy.

But as I said, I don't understand the cases well enough to judge, so I'll concede the point.

>>3978376

Look up Leptons number first, if you don't have a firm grasp of that concept.

>>3978376

If Leptons number is not conserved, then energy is not conserved either.

I know little and less about the nature of the laser project; are there any potential negative consequences of splitting these ghost particles?

>>3978452

No, not really. The scale is too small for it to affect human kind if that's what you're talking about.

Otherwise you'll have to clearly define what you are referring to when you say "negative consequences".

>>3978462
Anything catastrophic; I know it sounds silly and paranoid, but I'd still like to know.

>>3978464

Well, I don't really know, I'm not sure if the scientists can imagine anything catastrophic happening.

So I don't think anything bad can happen, considering no newspaper has had an article like: "NEW SCIENCE MEANS THE END OF THE OLD!"

I think we're very safe.

>>tear apart the vacuum of space

Man, it's been a long time since I read something this retarded.

Europe domination confirmed

pic related

>>3978025
0/10

>>3978452
>>3978462
>>3978464
>>3978468
No. At some time, certain people were excited about harnessing zero-point energy and saying that the quantity of energy in a point of space is limitless. But it doesn't work that way.

In effect, this is just using the laws of physics to turn E=MC² around and turning energy into matter.

>>3978477
Great Britain has 3 crosses on their flag and God in their national anthem. I'm not sure you're in any position to imply superiority for not having "God" on money.

wouldn't this 'laser' technically be grabbing particles from the zero-point field? this is an interesting step in physics. obtaining energy from the vacuum at rest seems like a pretty good idea to solve the energy crisis.

>>3978500
yes and no, see
>>3978209
and
>>3978493

>>3978504
would it (somehow) be possible to isolate the vacuum fluctuation without contributing any energy? (one particle would still have a 'negative' energy)

>Superconducting Super Collider
That sounds fucking mental, what would it be testing/looking for/creating?

>>3978519
Who cares?

SCIENCE!

>>3978508
Not as far as we can see. Not electromagnetically, nor gravitationally, not in any other way. Like I said, though the casimir effect moves them plates, you will then have to move the plates apart again, losing energy.

>>3977937
I hope you're joking.

>>3978519

« The SSC's planned collision energy of 40 TeV was almost triple the 14 TeV of its European counterpart, the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at CERN in Geneva. »

link :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_Super_Collider

>>3978693

MFW i have no face , Cern is going to upgrade the LHC in 2019

« The Super Large Hadron Collider (SLHC) is a proposed upgrade to the Large Hadron Collider to be made after around ten years of operation »

meanwhile ,in America ,pic related

>>3978604
You aren't describing virtual particles. You can achieve the same effect with gamma photons if you want mass-energy equivalence in action. Virtual particles are flucuation of the vacuum at ground state, and contain matter-exotic matter pairs. This laser is working to separate the particles under a very high electric field, The particles will still, regardless of the presence of the electric field, annihilate and return borrowed energy to the vacuum.

>>3978500
>obtaining energy from the vacuum
nope. just turning the energy of the laser into matter using e=mc2.

>>3978836
that's bullshit

why is Britain claiming it separates virtual particles from the vacuum, then?

that's false advertising for funding..

fuck the scientific community

>>3979078
They trade the energy of the laser for mass, in the form of virtual particles, from a vacuum. What the fuck do you not understand here? Energy <--> mass. Are you expecting them to miracle out some energy from nowhere? No free lunch.

>>3979095
because you can simply do this with high energy photons and pair production, it doesn't involve the vacuum whatsoever (see the pic)

quantum fluctuations (from what i've learned), are temporary changes in the amount of energy at a point in space-time

>>3979111
Try deriving Feynman diagrams without using knowledge of the vacuum state. An amplitude for a particle to go from one place to another is just a correlation between field values at two points in the vacuum.

And that's not what's happening here; the photon energy is much smaller than the energy of the products, so if you wanted to think of it in terms of particles, you have to use a huge number of initial photons, and you have to consider interference between the different possible starting numbers. For this case, it's much better to use the field picture of E&M.

>>3977949
but its an infrared telescope the extra aperture is lost in wavelength so it has the same resolution as Hubble, and is completely surpassed by ground based telescopes.

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Extremely_Large_Telescope

>>3979149
Infrared light is absorbed by water vapor.

>>3979156
some is yes but most isn't. JWST isn't perfect. it isn't the ultimate creation of astronomy as some would tell it, its one piece of the puzzle. there are many area's in which ground based telescopes are superior.

USA doesnt like to fund pure physics projects. The pay off is not generally very good.

Funding bIology and other engineering disciplines leads to greater immediate rewards per amount of funds

>>3979156

>>3979169
>bIology and other engineering disciplines

This is officially the best year ever...still waiting till November when they finish up the Secondary testing for those Neutrinos.

>>3978128

Why haven't we reverse genetically engineered dinosaurs yet...why not Science?

Chancellor Sir Patrick Stewart - European Spallation Source (ESS) research
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG3Upzc3NGY

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Spallation_Source

>>3979235
Because all dinosaur dna has already vanished. What we have left is not the molecules that made up the living creatures. When archeologists find bones of ancient animals they are not actually bones, they are rock.

>>3979274
yes, but you could have said fossilization.

>>3979274

I mean reverse engineer a chicken..or splice it's genes or give it growth hormone and breed selectively.

>>3979282
that's not reverse engineering.

If anyone wants a guess on what culture has its shit together, here's your sign.

>>3979308

No I was giving options...and since the animals are long dead I don't think we'd have much choice in the matter...unless of course we were to find an underwater creature that has somehow still survived.

>>3979169
lol'd, imagine:
What if the US had thought this seventy years ago?
>nah, we don't want to fund some boring physics research, but this proposal by biologists shows a lot of promise
-->the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki with bioweapons

>>3979321
your talking about genetic engineering, not reverse engineering.

OP seems to be under the impression that the US government likes to do science for the purpose of learning about the universe.

The official position of the US government when it comes to the funding of science projects is that they should result in practical applications.

E.G. NASAs mission statement for example explicitely says that they are in it to make discoveries in aerospace research.

The department of Energy operates in a similar fashion. Most of their R&D money goes towards the inventions of things that can help the US economy.

Los Alamos research facility is basically dedicated entirely towards nuclear weapons research.

The basics of the internet were not developed by the US government so you could post cat pictures, they did it because they wanted the US military to have more efficient ways of communication.

and so on and so forth.

So while the EU spends money on finding out how the universe was created, the US likes to spend money on research for things like efficient solar panels or 4th or 5th generation nuclear weapon designs.

Pic related and video related. It's what the US like to spend its money on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH_PxXNREgg

>>3979403
No, US has also liked to spend it's money on abstract knowledge, because sometimes little things like lasers and nuclear fission pop out.

Sometimes people just forget that.

>>3979403

I'm fine with the weaponry development but it seriously goes bad when they start invading countries for resources. I kind of understand 9/11 in a way but their mission is complete the eliminated the threat I think it's time to stop focusing so much on the Middle-east now and focusing on making more efficient systems here in the West...and if a war springs up because of some idiot so be it but your only causing more harm then good in my honest opinion...causing more people to dislike the States and give more reason for hate. That's all that's happening. I can bet in the future there is going to be great economic reason for space travel because everybody likes exploring new frontiers it's just a matter of making the right equipment that will be sustainable under such conditions as a vacuum in space.

>The description given by your correspondent makes me nervous. Focusing a laser beam more intense than the centre of the sun, albeit for a microsecond, seems to be tempting fate and potentially very very dangerous ! Could it not conceivably start a chain reaction that would lead to a massive nuclear explosion or even worse, the destruction of the planet?

I hope the scientists know what they're doing. When we tamper with Nature, we can't predict the outcome...

Comments are so good.

>Reading comments
>First one:First I read they are genetically modifying mosquitoes and have released them on more than one occasion, and now this. Something we have 0 knowledge about or its consequences, and were going to shoot a hole in it?
Why do CRAZY people have all the money to fund these things!?
>MFW

>>3979495
Nope. Wait, here we go.
>Both the U.S. and Britain already have developed and deployed scalar electromagnetic weapon systems that extract variable amounts of energy from a vacuum state and are capable of precision-targeting -- of not only military targets, but human beings. Imagine "cyber-knife" attack via remote control -- a cellular mast mounted microwave radio frequency directed energy weapon system deployed everywhere in the U.S. and the U.K. can do it -- and this system is being covertly used to attack, impair, harm, even slow-kill, persons who have been extrajudicially targeted as "dissidents" or undesirables, says this veteran U.S. journalist:

These people make me cry