/sci/ - Science & Math

Our hope in space exploration lies in china and private enterprise.

US, I am dissapoint.

>implying privatized space flight isn't the wave of the future
>implying NASA has done shit for humanity in the last 30 years

This is lame. Imagine the impact that simply reaching the Moon had on the Cold War? I know that we're in tough economic times, but I think that the fame that would be brought to the USA if we were the first to, say, put a man on Mars, would be well worth the cost.

Space is the future. We can't hold it off forever.

>>3958599
>http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/oct/26/obama-readies-to-blast-nasa/
We need a fitter space agency that focuses on doing useful things, like figuring out how sex in space works.

I wouldn't approve of cancelling space exploration even if we were all eating mud to survive.

Why are you kids crying about this?

USA is on the verge of a complete collapse, one in which there are no government funded projects. Face it, USA's time is over. What happened to the USSR is going to happen to the USA, except much worse.

Wow, if this is true, fuck it, I'm voting for Ron Paul as a protest vote. (It isn't like he's going to take Massachusetts, so no worries.)

Fucking a.

>>3958615
>USA is on the verge of a complete collapse
European 14 year old detected.

>>3958599
HOLY FUCKING WHAT

This can't be real.

Fuck's sake... what the hell, Obama?

>>3958617
I was thinking the same thing.

I'm going to scrutinize every candidates opinion of space exploration. I'd vote for Hitler if it meant even Glenn Beck if it saved humanity's future in space.

>>3958617
I was thinking the same thing.

I'm going to scrutinize every candidatess opinion of space exploration. I'd vote for Hitler or even Glenn Beck if it saved humanity's future in space.

>>3958617
I was thinking the same thing.

I'm going to scrutinize every candidate's opinion of space exploration. I'd vote for Hitler or even Glenn Beck if it saved humanity's future in space.

Dems HATE the space program. This was even portrayed in the West Wing television series. Liberals HATE anything even remotely manly or cool. Obama even told NASA that part of its mission is to "reach out to the Muslim world".

>orbiting the earth in antiquated spacecraft carrying experiments for Mrs. Smith's 4th grade class in Topeka Kansas
>future of space exploration

NASA wouldn't produce any significant discovery in propulsion technology in the foreseeable future anyway. The next big break through will come from private industry and likely from China.

>>3958632
>Obama even told NASA that part of its mission is to "reach out to the Muslim world".
WTF? source?

>>3958632
> dems hate the space program
> kennedy

>>3958638
Kennedy was not a Dem.

>>3958637
http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/obama-s-new-mission-nasa-reach-out-muslim-w
orld

NASA could sell Kepler to China. Or India.

Does NASA have an EBay account I should monitor?

>>3958617
Ron Paul wants to get rid of NASA *entirely* not just its space program

>>3958635
There are theories in the work. In fact, though I can't quote the source, NASA claims they're on the verge on a shuttle that can in fact take a crew to Mars. The obvious problem here, though, is that they can't get them back.

I understand that some of NASA's projects are questionable. But several of them are game changers. The Lunar Landing. The Mars Rovers. Several satellites and telescopes.

And you're probably right. If we don't reach a breakthrough, then China or private industry will. But we already have lost so much to China - losing space exploration, something that we have been pioneering for decades, would be a permanent blow to our honor. The day that China reaches Mars before us will be a sad day for the US indeed.

>>3958657
One should be thinking of HUMANITY though, not just this shitty nation.

>>3958635
sad but true given what they have to work with

i think i speak for most of /sci/ when i say their budget should be greatly increased

>implying space travel is the real value of NASA
>implying the money they put into R&D isn't the biggest benefit

>>3958661

>Wanting people to become one "humanity" rather than separate nations
>NOPE

Never going to happen sonny we've been separate nations, countries, empires for thousands of years

>>3958661
But why would we cancel NASA's programs? To preserve our economy. It may help the world economy some, but it will still preserve ours significantly more.

Either way, the results will be mostly limited to our nation. I choose space exploration over a small boost to our economy. Because even if we get out of this mess, we will find another recession eventually, and forget prosperity again. But nobody will ever forget the Lunar landing, will they?

>>3958599
Geez, I guess that "anti-science" stereotype of Americans are actually true. :(

>>3958675
Not really... nationalism is pretty modern.

But yeah, I get your point.

That doesn't mean that the individiuals' focus shouldn't be upon the species as a whole before any other division.

>>3958675
But information should be free and collaboration encouraged for the benefit of all and every.

I hate reality.

>>3958683

It should be but it isn't

>>3958682

Once again it should be

But it isn't and never will be

3000 years ago you had the Romans, Egyptians, whatever then 300 years ago you had the Ottomans and the Russians and the French we've never had just people

But we should

>riots in your streets
>people can't afford education
>military cannot win any war
>Mexicans taking over
>NASA and Fermilab shutdown

Admit it USA your country will soon be no more. To say anything else is to be blind like an insane christfag, the evidence is in front of you and your days are numbered.

>>3958682
Tribalism has always existed. Nation is just the new flavor... and by new I mean 363 years old.

I... I don't know what to say. I really was trying not to tear up reading that, partly out of fury, partly out of sadness to see it go.

Obama has gone off the deep end.

>>3958706
Yeah.

Astrophysics student here, time to welcome our new chinese overlords. I'll need to begin learning to speak chink and hope that they'll let non chinese nationals work on their space program. Failing that, Russia or India.

Goodbye NASA. Was nice knowing you.

>>3958655
Right. What's the fucking difference at this point?

Lol america.

>>3958715
That faggots who think he will "deliver the nation from the recession back to greatness" are following the same pipe dream as the ones who elected Obama.

I can't help wondering, what'll be shut down next.

my generation is getting so fucked in the ass...

>Watching "Avro Arrow"
> 5 minutes of credits devoted to listing the engineers that left Canada for NASA.

feels reminiscent, man.

>43 white presidents
>1 black president
and who kills science?

>>3958722
At this point I seriously don't give a fuck. Killing science is the ultimate betrayal.

>Even worse, the magnificent Webb Telescope, the agency’s flagship, which promises fundamental breakthroughs in our understanding of the laws of the universe, is not sufficiently funded to allow successful completion.

What I'M worried about is the NEO programs. Are we still watching for doom rocks?

NASA has been flailing around for quite a while, trying to recapture their glory days. Maybe getting rid of this beast will give private companies a chance to compete. Space flight is already extremely important and valuable. We rely on satellites for so much.

NOW IT'LL TAKE EVEN LONGER TO ESCAPE TO MARS TO GET RID OF THESE STUPID FUCKS

FUCK

>>3958737

Science died in America when Texas started altering our textbooks and we refused to make the largest most advance particle accelerator in the world, don't kid yourself

Way to cut the right thing Obama

Good, All of NASA's top brains can go into the private sector and make progress without being hampered by bureaucracy

>>3958715
That Obama is willing to spend eighteen billion dollars more on NASA than Paul?

Seriously people, the space program isn't the whole thing, it's only the most visible part.

>>3958768
There's nothing more to discuss. This is a massive betrayal, as far as I'm concerned. I'll vote for my grandmother if it makes you happy. Fuck this fucking country.

>>3958655

:Citation needed:

Paul's 1 Trillion dollar budget cut doesn't include cutting any NASA funding, he'd probably see the opportunity to rebuild some national pride and send man back to the moon

>>3958768
It's not that, at least for me. It's that there's so much other shit to cut before this.

>over a trillion a year spent on oil imports from Saudis which is fueling the insurgency and 'terrorists.'
>over 700 billion, if not ALSO a trillion a year all up for the Department of Defense
>NASA GETS 18 BILLION A YEAR THAT'S SO MUCH CUT THEM HURR DURR DRILL BABY DRILL

>>3958766
All of NASA's top brains went there because they valued science over money. they all could have made much more if they worked for companies.

NASA was right about to run out of Plutonium for its Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generators around 2017 anyway. But still, this saddens me greatly.

>>3958774
>citation needed
http://www.islandone.org/Politics/LP.space-dom.html

>Reading this thread and article
>Hear mom teaching little brother something eerily similar to "it's just a theory, a geuss"
>Walk the fuck over and find out what's going on
>She reads the science book's definition of theory, "An idea supported by evidence but which cannot be stated as a fact."
>No clarification of best working model or anything, just this incomplete misleading sentence
This planet. I will never be able to dream of not living on it anymore.

>>3958749
>>3958766
lol

You guys seriously think that private industry will ever invest into actual research and development on space exploration? The only company remotely close to having their own serious space program is Virgin Galactic, and the only reason they have that is because Richard Branson is eccentric and they can spare the money from all their other branches that actually bring in profits.

And yet they made no advances whatsoever except ultra high altitude aircraft, and are trying to establish orbital space tourism which will do exactly nada for space exploration.

The only proper advances in space travel are pretty much guaranteed to come from government sponsored programs exclusively, as these are the only ones that allow working on some of the blue sky, long term, no benefit, money sink science that is required to actually make something like a journey to mars possible.

>>3958766
>privately funded science
its not really science when you're required to produce the answers your owner wants

space development does pay out in the long term. if you miss out on the critical get there stage you won't be able to do shit later.

>I won't have to commit suicide. As soon as the budget is signed I will outright die.
I can completely agree with this. We're the only country with a stable space program. Unbelievable. Out of the infinite manifold of space-time there is to scavenge and explore, we won't even see a hundred kilometers out of our atmosphere. Fuck this species.

>>3958797
I will stab out my frontal lobe right now if you aren't trolling.

Well, fuck. So much for anyone being on mars in the next 20 years.

It'll be at least 50 if someone doesn't restart our program.

>>3958783
>Implying "NASA's top brains" aren't actually the engineers and scientists working for the contractors already
What, you think the bureaucrats actually have brains?

>>3958801
>private industry will ever invest into actual research and development on space exploration
They've done it before and can do it again.
But whether they will push through the years or decades of development and research needed to turn a profit, or even look into fields where a profit is not easily foreseeable, now that's where things fall down. As great the idea of private funding of science is, it's a fairy tale of poor conception.

I think we should seriously face it : it will probably be until the 22nd century that we even begin to go to other planets. Futurologists everywhere got it all wrong.

>>3958809
Not trolling. Seriously not trolling.
I don't know what to do about this.

>>3958815
>turn a profit
>space exploration
Never happened, never will.

>>3958815
>they can do it again
more than that, they have to do it again
govt space programs are great but they'll never operate on a big enough scale to do really interesting things

They gave away the future to backstop losses for fuckheads like this.

Think about that for just a moment.

They're talking about killing Kepler in mid-mission. But this asshole gets a multi-million dollar bonus.

Good lord, someone has to put an end to these people.

>yfw warren buffet who lives extremely extremely modestly could dump his billions into a space program and have humans on mars within the decade

why doesn't some billionaire do this and be REMEMBERED FOREVER

>>3958837
Because they don't care and would rather hoard it.

>>3958617
>Wow, if this is true, fuck it, I'm voting for Ron Paul as a protest vote.
>Vote for Ron Paul because Obama is dismantling NASA
>Not realizing that Ron Paul would likely outright destroy NASA
Makes sense.

>Planetary exploration = everything
CHILL THE FUCK OUT, GUYS.
This is a small fraction of NASA's programs (and does NOT include the (manned) SLS, or CCDev, and I'm sure this will all blow over anyways as soon as we give Obama the boot. (What the heck does he have against space exploration, anyways?)

Besides, it's not like we were sending astronauts to Mars within the next four years anyways...

It's over America is finished.

>>3958839
better question

WHY NOT DUMP YOUR FUCKING MONEY INTO IMMORTALITY/LONGEVITY RESEARCH

ESPECIALLY YOU ZUCKERBERG, YES YOU. YOU'RE YOUNG, THE REST ARE OLD AND WILL DIE YOU BUT COULD LIVE FOREVER

>>3958820
Okay actually good news, bugger went to bed so I grabbed the book.
Calm down, it's a Reading book not a science book, which happens to have an article on dinosaurs and fossils and apparently questions about scientists and theories. It's still pretty horrible though.

>>3958843
> implying Ron Paul would actually win

>>3958844
And if Obama looses who will resurrect it, none of the rights candidates will... :(

>>3958847
Because he would rather hoard it and not be poor.

>>3958844
Also, please ignore my grammatical error(s).

>>3958837
because rich people who want to be socially useful usually put money into education, infrastructure, and jobs, things that effect more people more quickly more dramatically

>>3958850
>none of the rights candidates will... :(
Hasty generalizations, much?

Bush supported Constellation in full-force. Republicans, contrary to your own personal bias, are not inherently opposed to spaceflight endeavors, especially if they bring massive levels of national pride and (more importantly) approval ratings.

The way I see it, ANYONE would be better than Obama when it came to funding spaceflight.

>>3958714
China? Why is everyone so obsessed with China? They took a huge hit before America did. Their migrant worker economy all but collapsed. They are still improving as economy mind you, but that is because they had the largest baby boom in human history followed by near draconian population restrictions. They are a nation of working age citizens. The Moon colliding with the Earth couldn't stop such an economy from expanding, but when the workforce reaches retirement they are going to be begging for a fate on par with Lunar collision.

>>3958837
You rang?

>>3958837
Branson and Musk are both attempting to do so as we speak.

>>3958844
THEY WOULD BE SHUTTING DOWN KEPLER JWST!

/sci/ should try and get Kucinich back into the presidential race. Or is it too late now? Not sure how that would work in America.

But yeah, Dennis Kucinich has been pretty pro-NASA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2Q52PwFVgE

>>3958873

He'd have to run as a Republican or Third Party

>>3958870
>>3958869
But Branson's a high school drop-out, a DROP-OUT that didn't even GO TO UNIVERSITY!!! It doesn't count and is, in fact, jeopardizing our future even more. I would rather let the world collapse than put my faith in a drop out and never did any science nor get a science degree.

>>3958881
Why? Republicans definitely wouldn't touch him with a ten-foot pole.

>>3958873
A New New Deal? It would think that would drive up inflation, like a final nail in a coffin.

>>3958886
Do you want change, or not? Much of what he's proposing has been instituted in other countries effectively, such as universal healthcare.

>>3958860
>>3958860
>>3958860
He also thought creationism should be taught in skool.

>>3958869
Enjoy your orbital tourism for the rich and corp ads in low orbit. Private corps won't deliver shit. Perhaps they will push some things when a government sponsored research agency actually invents the relevant tech (all the rocket builders that sprang up in the 1990s come to mind). But they will never ever invest into actual serious R&D on the subject.

I actually bought into this asshole. Even the fucking Nobel people did.

Good grief what a fucking travesty.

>>3958891
...
I don't know. I feel like no matter what we do we will come out of this tunnel with little more than the knowledge that America isn't like other countries. Some countries just like being exceptions.

I've never been good with economics or politics.

>>3958884
You sir, are a judgmental asshole.

>>3958905
But I'm right, science should only be for the intelligent and other people that bothered to work for a degree to work in it, we should not allow anyone else in, or it will ruin science altogether because of complete and utter retards.

What does this mean for the future of space exploration? Can the space industry be privatized?

Are my hopes and dreams crushed? Was I born too early?

Obama confirmed for alien

>>3958898
>I feel like no matter what we do we will come out of this tunnel with little more than the knowledge that America isn't like other countries. Some countries just like being exceptions.
Personally I feel that the corporate guys behind all this bullshit find you and many others feeling like that quite desirous, as you then feel depressed and are less supportive of change as you think it'll just fuck the country more.
But as the old namefag Scia used to say (with a rather annoying patriotic tone) that the US has the most scientific achievements in the world. You have the people. You have the money. You have the expertise. The United States of America, if it directs its actions well, is in the best position to improve everything about their own nation. Whether economic prosperity, social standing of millions of America, climate change, corporate greed, and sending men to Mars.

>>3958893
>(all the rocket builders that sprang up in the 1990s come to mind).
Name three.

>>3958896
Please, don't start with all this anti-Obama shit. Who would have been a better candidate? McCain? If spender like Obama would cut NASA what do you think McCain would have done?

As soon as the shit hits the fan everyone points a finger upward and says its all the current administrations fault. It happens with every administration.

I voted for Obama because I liked the policies he was preaching more than everyone else. At least Obama got rid of that underfunded Constellation program and added funding to the private sector. No one would have done better than him IMHO.

Again, I ask you, who was this miracle candidate that we missed that had said that the US wouldn't have enough money 4 years down the road and said he could save NASA?

>>3958908
Horrible idea, instead your suggestion should be applied to government and the issues that should be voted upon by those with expertise in the subject the vote is related to.

>>3958908

>>3958910

If (big if) this is true, then people have to fight it. Organize, get involved etc.

If it matters to you but you can't be bothered to get off your ass well, too damn bad.

>>3958914
>Again, I ask you, who was this miracle candidate that we missed that had said that the US wouldn't have enough money 4 years down the road and said he could save NASA?
Dennis Kucinich

>>3958921
>>3958918
Plebs, fucking plebs. You're all just casual, popsci faggots that do not know anything about it, and need to be shot for all you have ruined in science. It's because of you guys that science is shit.

>>3958912
I suppose the old saying is true, the only thing certain in this world is change. I can take comfort in the fact that if we keep rolling the dice will role sevens... even if it takes a few decades... or centuries.

>>3958914

I'm feeling more disturbed by all the people who won't criticize him no matter how badly he screws the pooch.

Now there's talk of him simply killing NASA and we're supposed to say "oh well, McCain was the bigger asshole"?

>>3958886
New Deal of course caused massive debt that shocked the US and outraged many. A few years later WW2 overshadowed it and made it look like someone had dropped a penny down down a manhole while afterward being robbed of their house, wallet, and bank accounts.
Yeah New Deal stuff causes spending, but it's nothing compared to War.

>>3958929
It's not about rolling dice. It's about power, and a large enough lever to lift the Earth.

>>3958914
Obama is a spender but on the wrong shit.
I'll let my nigga NDT tell it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7Q8UvJ1wvk

>>3958912
Haha! I just read your image. The fact that they all look like they have Down's syndrome makes it all the more funny and oddly all the more inspiring.

>>3958940
/sci/ version, OC

>>3958599
>Washington Times
>newspaper owned by the Unification Church cult

Why don't you link to Scientology Times instead?

>>3958928
I guarantee I know more about rocket science than you do.

Astrophysicists can already figure out how space works from Earth, there's no point in going into space, until there's a good situation for mining.

>>3958913
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansari_X_Prize#Contestants
Here you go my friend.

>>3958928

Yes, because making science more exclusive will solve our funding problems. Since hardcore scientists are super rich right? We don't want the general population to be interested in science, pssh who needs their pitiful tax dollars to fund our national science programs.

Moron.

>>3958930
All you and I can do is judge our past decisions by the information we had on hand at the time. Perhaps, by some odd series of events, had McCain won he would have kept NASA's budget by sacrificing social programs, but we couldn't have known.

If someone went back in time to before the election and told your past self that the NASA's fate was at risk then who would you voted for? Which candidate had the best chance of preserving NASA? If the decision were left between Obama and McCain the most obvious answer would be that Obama was the more likely to save NASA.

All we can do now is decide what candidates support NASA and science in general. I find it unlikely that Republican candidates will campaign by saying they will give MORE money to government agencies, but who knows. All we can do is watch, wait, and write letters to our Congressmen telling them we will rip their ballot boxes a new one if they don't promise a man on Mars within our lifetime.

>>3958937
So... vote Republican?

>>3958884

What are you fucking retarded

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_dropout_billionaires

>The average net worth of billionaires who dropped out of college, $9.4 billion, is more than double that of billionaires with Ph.D.s, $3.2 billion. Even if you remove the world's second richest man, Bill Gates, who left Harvard University and is now worth $53.0 billion, college dropouts are worth $5.3 billion on average, compared to those who finished only bachelor's degrees, who are worth $2.9 billion. According to a recent report from Cambridge, Mass.-based Forrester Research, 20% of America's millionaires never attended college.

Branson is legit

>>3958964
They're who he's cancelling NASA for.

>>3958959
HOW THE FUCK ARE WE GOING TO HAVE A GOOD SITUATION FOR ASTEROID MINING IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANY MEANINGFUL SPACE PROGRAM FOR DECADES?

Oh wait, nevermind, China surpassed America in that TOO.
http://www.geekologie.com/2011/08/china-lets-trap-an-asteroid-in-earths-or.php

>>3958959
And space technology will just fall in our laps? You have to spend money on space based technology to develop space based technology.

What the fuck!!!!!

Is there any citation on OP's article? It just says that information "leaked out"

Is there any official statement?

>>3958969
So.... vote... for...
no one?

what. the. fuck.

so my life plan of going to physics grad school and then working for NASA is over. I never thought I'd say this but FUCK YOU OBAMA.

guess i'll have to throw away my vote to some 3rd party in 2012

>>3958959
No.
At the very bare minimum-least, we NEED the Webb man, there's other important telescopes too, but for now that's kind of the focus.

Don't worry gaiz, the roads and bridges may be crumbling, the cities and states bankrupt, 22% of Americans can't find a full-time job, we can't into space any more, but we'll always have a few billion to go bomb brown people!

There's still China, India, Russia, Brazil...

>>3958599
> NASA isn't just losing its manned program. It's shutting down permanently

I CALLED IT, FUCKERS!

You let war totally distract you from the Human Experience, because when you get down to it, left it its own devices, the real Human Experience is to act like a pack of VIOLENT SIMIANS, and throw poo (and grenades) at each other in order to be alpha ape for a time before something terrible happens and washes the tribe away.

This is as much as you can do, since within each Human, there's an Armageddon Circuit, and it always nags and nags at a person, until they let it loose in some way. The sum total of the Armageddon Circuits in each person produces our violent simian society, hence the bad outcomes that must follow.

We're going to lose this stupid, ape-like civilization of ours. It won't happen for a while, but it will happen in stages, and your alpha apes will guide you lesser apes into line like you're supposed to, to ook loudly and toss poo as directed.

It's all right in front of your pushed-in snouts. Why do all of you CLAIM to be thinking men, and yet you allow apes in suits to lower your society to catastrophes? Obama is the new Nixon, and he's gonna kill your exit plan DEAD.

>>3958994
Russia? Not anymore.
Brazil? Not for a while.
China will send someone up into space soon.
India is just starting up.
We'll see if anyone can truly take over US ingenuity and creativity.

>>3958985

trying to go into space now is a waste of money anyways. better technology can be worked on earth that will make the process cheaper and more efficient in the future.

>>3959006

There is no reason we cant do both.

>>3959000
PISS OFF, violent simian.

We're all so fucking sick of your stupid rhetoric.

>>3959009

I like how he doesnt even need to have a name is and its so obvious who it is.

>>3959013
Well, he kind of gave it away that time, but it's always obvious.

To answer your question; Robert Zubrin wrote that article, I'm sure the information isn't just rumor.

>>3959013
If he was a namefag/tripfag more shit would be flogged at him than EK, IN elite and Abatap combined. And I'm pretty sure he knows it too.

"The universe is probably littered with the one-planet graves of cultures which made the sensible economic decision that there's no good reason to go into space--each discovered, studied, and remembered by the ones who made the irrational decision."

I don't want to live on this planet anymore. Not that I'll have a choice.

>>3959017
Wait. Is this that Peak Oil Fundie Who Speaks in Proper Nouns?

>>3958599
ALL TO FUND THE HORRIFYING BEAST THAT IS OBAMACARE
AND THE MILITARY

ARE YOU GUYS LIKING THAT HOPE AND CHANGE YET?

>>3958615
hurp, what's a boom and bust cycle
of course, obama doesn't understand that these cycles are a REQUIREMENT in capitalism, they always happen. his constant attempts to fix it are prolonging the problem by generating more uncertainty

>>3959025
civilizations don't go into space because it's a waste of resources. they just build virtual reality programs to imitate it. we already know there isn't anything of much interest we can go too anyways.

There's still like 8 nations left

>>3959009
> PISS OFF, violent simian.

OHHH, YEAH! THAT'S IT, RELEASE YOUR INNER APE.

As if I was the fucking problem here. But you're after ME for daring to tell the truth. Sure as fuck you aren't going to do anything about that alpha ape Obama.

> We're all so fucking sick of your stupid rhetoric.

You mean you're tired of being told the red-hot truth. Again, that's another aspect of your violent simian nature. VSes don't like being corrected. VSes can't handle tough times. VSes would much rather fling poo (or hand grenades) and ook and scratch their nutbags, than actually knuckle down to FIX THE FUCKING PROBLEM.

>>3959035
>we already know there isn't anything of much interest we can go too anyways.
...
Did you really just call the other entirety of the universe 'uninteresting' ?
Really?

>>3959046
physicists have already figured out how most of the universe works.

>>3959035
> civilizations don't go into space because it's a waste of resources.

Ha haa, you break open coconuts with rocks.

The solar system has so many resources in terms of raw materials and solar output, that there's an entire North American continent's worth of wealth out there for each Human (ie. violent simian) that's alive today. The resources you're believing it's a "waste" to obtain are billions of times larger than what we have here, moron.

Go back to flinging poo at fellow violent simians since that's all you're good for.

>>3959048

>80% of the universe is made of something we have no clue about
>physicists have already figured out how most of the universe works.

>>3958617
>>3958617
>>3958617

As far as science funding, Paul is actually the worst candidate by a wide margin.

http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2011/10/ron-paul-would-erase-billions-in.html

>>3959048
That's the equivalent of saying 1,000 years ago, 'We took this photo of Earth, we know it's atmospheric composition, soil composition, orbital characteristics and so on. No radio signals detected though. Let's go back home.

>>3959043
you're really annoying, do you know that?
i'm not even mad, i'm just irritated. it's like a cat sitting on your shoulder meowing constantly

it's cute at first, then you try to ignore it since it's no longer cute, then you have trouble blocking it out, then it gets annoying

that's you, guy.

>>3959057

I'm taking his point to mean that there are no particular game-changing surprises waiting for us in our anticipated reach of our own solar system out to the Kuiper Belt.

>>3959056
>http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2011/10/ron-paul-would-erase-billions-in.html
ah bummer. i was wondering that ron's stance on research was

>>3959056
But the tradeoff there is he wants no government funded programs beyond the bare minimum essential.
That means private industry would have a massive surplus with which to fund R&D and that might be a viable alternative in that extreme case of little to no unnecessary taxation.
And consumers would have more money to buy new products.

>>3959079
>That means private industry would have a massive surplus with which to fund R&D
Great plan, just like that time when Bush cut taxes for the rich and all those hundreds of thousands of jobs appeared.

Oh, wait.

Fuck you guys, I've always thought we were walking a tight rope, that intelligent life in general more likely than not wipes itself out or withers away into extinction, but I always had hope for humanity. I always had hoped we would be the first species in this galaxy to spread across the stars... but if this article turns out to be valid then I can't help but believe we are on the long road into the abyss.

>>3959073
> you're really annoying, do you know that?

So? Stick to the topic, violent simian. Killing the messenger only makes you feel better, before the tsunami or army comes over your tribal walls and kills you in exchange.

My advice to people who can't accept the Obama-ization of the nation, is to learn Han Chinese and move there in order to be a part of a civilization that is trying to expand into space while we still have enough petroleum to fuel and fund the effort.

Give up on Ameriniggers and their Jew controllers.

>>3959094
the world is more than the US

>>3959088

I'd rather live in a place where I have civil rights than under a shithole despotic regime where I have 0 control over the government, thank you.

all I'm asking is we still fund the sciences in our own nation.
It shouldn't be so hard, we are still the most powerful nation economically.

>>3959094
I agree with
>>3959097
All that's happened is now we don't have three groups to look forward to, (NASA, Chinese Space Agency, Private companies) and now we have two. The Chinese don't appear like they'll be stopping any time soon. In fact, if LFTRs prove lucrative for them, they'll likely accelerate. It will be the Chinese who are the first on Mars.

>>3959097
Who is going to step up? China? They we utterly collapse in 50 years when their ENTIRE WORK FORCE RETIRES SIMULTANEOUSLY.

Intelligent species get one shot. They ride the technological boom of fossil fuels and if they can't get a foot hold before the peak then they implode, doomed to never attain the level of development they once had.

>>3959107
>>3959107
Not for very long...

that's fine.

let's cut what's unnecessary, get our financial house in order before everything falls apart.

and then we'll pick up where we left off.

this makes alot of sense, and your reactions against it are emotional and not grounded in reason.

in the long term we won't have a very good space program at all if we can't take care of the machine that funds it today.

>>3959120
*will

>>3959120
When on Earth did you turn into Mr. Violent Simian? And remember, A LOT happens in 50 years.
Pic related.

>>3959120
lmao did god tell you this

>>3959094
> Fuck you guys, I've always thought we were walking a tight rope, that intelligent life in general more likely than not wipes itself out or withers away into extinction, but I always had hope for humanity.

Well, wasn't that a foolish hope? Look out at the stars and what do you see? There's nothing intelligent out there that we can detect. We don't see any interstellar engineering. We hear no intelligent signals. If life does arise as easily as ours did, then there should be thousands in this galaxy. So where are their signals?

The likely answer is that they do wipe themselves out. And there are two things from our own experiences that support that:

1. Our technology advance is far more rapid than our biological adaptability. 10000 years ago, we were throwing stones at each other. Now we have nukes, and all we can think to do with them is... throw them at each other.

2. Tools are a problem intrinsically. Tools are useful, but only in extending the range of our organism. Automatically that means we haven't ADAPTED to the environment. Tools means an adaptive FAILURE. And tool use creates dependency, and it just gets worse and worse. Eventually, we're too linked up with our tools, and we just can't change with the environmental conditions. So we fail. Our histories are full of examples of socio-economic crashes, and they come harder and harder.

>>3959120
In 50 years they will have a moon base and a full blown space program, and will probably land the first people on Mars if we are to trust their ambitious timelines.

Also, the Chinese workforce argument is bullshit. Their government has such trouble containing the vast growth the 1 billion people living in China generates, they have to put up restrictions on births. It's a planned economy, all they have to do is loosen those up a bit before the workforce collectively reaches the retirement age, and the only effect the big retirement will have on China will be the fact that it will absolutely suck to be old there.

>butthurt chinks

>>3959126
IF YOU WANT YOUR FINANCIAL HOUSE IN ORDER, PERHAPS YOU SHOULD STOP THE TRILLION DOLLAR WARS, INVEST IN BIOFUELS AND ELECTRIC CARS, STOP IMPORTING OVER A TRILLION IN OIL FROM THE MIDDLE EAST EVERY FUCKING YEAR

NOT CUT A PROGRAM THAT DOESN'T RECEIVE EVEN 0.5% FROM THE ENTIRE BUDGET

FUCK. YOU'RE TAKING OFF A SPRIG OF PARSLEY AND CLAIMING YOU HAVE MADE DRASTIC CUTS TO A MEDIUM RARE STEAK AND MASHED POTATO WITH PEAS

DAMN RIGHT I MAD

>>3959130
I can't chose to believe stuff. I'm looking at the fact that China had the biggest population explosion in human history followed by a successful one child per family policy and I don't see many other outcomes.

>Our histories are full of examples of socio-economic crashes, and they come harder and harder.
It just means we're at a societal crossroads. Just like you had the bourgeois revolution in the 1800s create capitalism and abolish feudalism, we need some idea that will replace capitalism now with a system that does not rely on endless growth as its core principle.

>>3959140
>TOP IMPORTING OVER A TRILLION IN OIL FROM THE MIDDLE EAST EVERY FUCKING YEAR


>not importing uranium from the Anglosphere
>2011

>>3959146
Automation.
LFTRs.
China would've already gone to Mars and back dozens of times.
Asteroid mining (>>3958971)
Peak oil is nowhere near as big a problem as some people blow it up to be.

>>3959140
What other choices are there?
The republitarded won't let him do anything with healthcare or the military which if 50% of spending.
Yeah, it's his responsibility, but I feel bad for Obama, we chained him to a post and we're demanding he run a marathon.

>>3959137
>In 50 years they will have a moon base and a full blown space program, and will probably land the first people on Mars if we are to trust their ambitious timelines.
They said that about America. And forgive me if I'm less than excited about a nation with a history like China's shaping the zeitgeist of humanity in space.

I wish the Swiss would colonize space.

>>3959153
Revolution is the only viable course I see.

>>3959152
>flying cars
>flying cars
>flying cars
That's all I see Inurdaes... or rather what I don't see... flying cars.

Maybe I should go to bed before I get so depressed my internal organs fail.

>>3959156
Yeah well, one could say similar about USA's history of warring about for the past 60 years completely unabated, and basically assuring cooperation through superior firepower. Nobody here is crystal clear, but nobody can really deny the fact that the Chinese will take over America's world position in about 20-30 years. This definitely includes science considering the amount of chinese studying hard sciences and engineering in the west and then coming back to the motherland to apply all that knowledge.

>>3959165
The only thing that would make commercial flying cars viable is an energy source that is at least a few times as energy dense as coal, and something that doesn't have stupid unfolding wings and can fly just simply by propulsion. That or embedding superconductors in the crust. And don't give me the shit OH THEY SAID WE'D HAVE FLYING CARS AND WE DON'T. Star Trek had communicators and iPads that look far less sophisticated as the shit we have now, and their stuff was set in the 23rd century or some crap.

Last 20 years? Thousands of new medicines, gene therapy, dozens of vaccines, cloth weaves that are waterproof so that when you spill your beer you don't get wet, novel methods of synthesizing all sorts of stuff, plastics that are stronger than steel, new semiconductors.... Then there are advances in cosmetics, and in automobiles, aeronautics, and power generation (clean coal tech, nuclear materials tech). Major advances in smelting and refining procedures. Mathematical methods for brewing alcohols more efficiently and with better flavours. Sports gear is not even comparable. Modern paper lasts much longer, looks much better, and is much cheaper... then there is e-ink technology. DVDs. The compressor in your refrigerator uses a completely different design. So does your hot water tank.

20 years ago, we had eight channels on TV. Eight. We'd just upgraded to cable, giving us four extra channels. Buying shelves for your house was a major expense... you couldn't just drop $10 at IKEA. Our car was a monstrous hunk of steel that got boiling hot inside in the summer, and had frost on the inside all winter.

You just take all this stuff for granted. Almost everything you wear, eat, sleep on, and masturbate to has been revolutionized in the last 20 years.

And now you say we're going to stop because of a shortsighted president and his failing country? Not going to happen.

>>3959152
And sure, peak oil won't take the form of oil disappearing over night. There are plenty of oil shale out there and lots and lots of coal if we really get desperate. But when one considers it was fossil fuels that got us this far and that we don't see or hear any intelligent civilizations up there I can't help but look at peak oil as the cause. Intelligent species burn through their supply of cheap energy too quickly leading to a huge population explosion that can't be sustained afterwards, ending with global economic collapse or worse, nuclear war.

If it were so easy to overcome peak oil then why don't we see or hear alien civilizations? They've must have been popping up for billions of years now. It just a single one of them established a self-sufficient population in space there is no reason why they wouldn't colonize the entire galaxy within a few million years. There must be some bottleneck and peak oil and nuclear war seem to be the most likely suspects.

>>3959088
i really wish you'd wear a trip so i could filter you

>>3959177
Maybe it will be a good thing that a culture of compliance and not liberalism makes into into space. With fewer rights for the individual humanity will be more willing to sacrifice for the greater good.

>>3959191
*is

>>3959200

I dont think the loss of life is whats holding us back from space travel.

Whats stopping us from sending someone on a one way mission to mars right now? I would have no moral problems with someone who voluntarily takes that mission.

>>3959179
Whatever. (._.)

>>3959211
Funny thing, I'm the OP and I learned about this article from a facebook group I'm part of called Mars to Stay.

Robert Zubrin for president.

>>3959211
Believe it or not, NASA batted around the idea of sending an astronaut on a one-way-trip to the Moon in the time following Kennedy's proclaimation, because they were doubtful they'd have the technology to make a round trip in 1969.

Of course, they were planning to send a constant stream of supplies to keep him alive until they figured out how to bring him back.

The idea was dropped for obvious reasons once the initial studies for Nova were completed.

Republicans: "NASA is being cancelled and it's all the fault of minorities, Islam, Jewish bankers, poor people, communist Obama, and Chinese mercantilism."

>>3958977
Nominate Anonymous.

>>3959140
> FUCK. YOU'RE TAKING OFF A SPRIG OF PARSLEY AND CLAIMING YOU HAVE MADE DRASTIC CUTS TO A MEDIUM RARE STEAK AND MASHED POTATO WITH PEAS

I lol'd. And yet that's what's going to happen in the USA. Even worse, the majority will have to get their stuff cut, to avoid cutting anything away from the elite. We've become an essentially Fascist society. Really I can't wait for the violent simians to start shooting each other here in earnest.

>>3959235
Nominate /sci/.

>>3959228
Oh please yes.

>>3959242
>the one thing I agree with Mr. Violent Simians is a violent uprising

>>3959243
If Zubrin were president we would be have a Martian colony in 4 years.

Also, I NEED the sauce of that flag.

>>3959243
If Zubrin were president we would have a Martian colony in 4 years.

Also, I NEED the sauce of that flag.

>>3959195
> i really wish you'd wear a trip so i could filter you

And that's why I don't wear a trip, moron. I don't come here to be ignored; I come here to be HEARD.

Someone assassinate Obama please! Fucking.... Ruined this country. I hate violence but shit I'll get behind killing him. NASA is the last straw.

>>3959260
There is no sauce. /sci/ collaborated in a thread for suggestions for the flag of the Technocratic Republic of Sci. It maxed out.
Picture partially related.

>>3959056
Yeah this is true.

>people complaining about obama killing science
>implying anything important has come out of NASA in years

it's all darpa these days kiddies.

>>3959263
>Obama ruined this country
Full retard.

>>3959270
Well it's the best Earth Flag I've seen.

>>3959274
>implying he hasn't put us further into debt by passing shitty healthcare plan.

>>3959273
Just shut up.

>>3959149
> Just like you had the bourgeois revolution in the 1800s create capitalism and abolish feudalism, we need some idea that will replace capitalism now with a system that does not rely on endless growth as its core principle.

Got some news for you: What replaces an Imperial civilization is a crash down into barbarism. That's what modern capitalism really is: The operating system of the Western Civilization, which took over North America and Europe and made fiefdoms of the southern continents.

>>3959275
If by some miracle the TRS does eventually form, that flag will likely be the flag.
here are a few of the other ones suggested in the thread. We centered around the already-shown design a third of the way into the thread.

http://imgur.com/Jqj9U,6M0kZ,8QIT5,bhqaL,KqlWW,4uH7N,a95IL,VvJLN,sY8
RP,JDfpi,oCwiR,aKGiL,rgNKO,V2kcX,QwlT3,sYvI5,86sL5

>>3959281
This, qft

>>3959243
>Nominate /sci/.
NO. Fuck no.

I pick...... /n/. Because we need a fucking high-speed rail network on the Moon.

>>3959276
> implying he hasn't put us further into debt by passing shitty healthcare plan.

It wasn't health-care, it was wealth-care for the insurance companies. We're increasing the meta-stability of our (failing) culture, by making it government and social policy to ensure corporate profits.

It's like CHOAM, but worse. The oil must flow! Bomb more of the Fremenstanis!

>>3959289
/n/ aren't the only ones who deeply love high-speed rail.
"As Deputy Space Minister I order a 6,400km/h maglev train to be constructed around the equator of the moon."

>>3958914
Stop being a fucking whiteknight. Your like a zit that needs to be popped.

>>3959279
>uselessness of nasa pointed out
>tells people to shut up over the internet

Yeah....fuck.

We're in deep shit as a species. We have several converging serious issues in finance, resources, environmental damage from pollution and climate issues relating to CO2. These will all likely get worse and compound each other.

Imagine Fallout, but with less wacky humor and robots and more starvation and rape. And choking, soul-searing despair. And even more rape.

>>3959302
The rape sounds good. But seriously. Im depressed now. Fuck this world. Where are the aliens? They killed themselves too.

Feels bad man. Real bad.

>>3959302
> We have several converging serious issues in finance, resources, environmental damage from pollution and climate issues relating to CO2. These will all likely get worse and compound each other.

Funny you'd use those terms. The sub-title of Kunstler's book "Long Emergency" is:

"Surviving the Converging Catastrophes of the Twenty-First Century"

That particular term is apt: Converging Catastrophes. That's exactly what we're undergoing and we're clearly either too scared or too stupid to handle such a multivariate problem. I'm guessing BOTH.

Well, fuck.

This week has been full of nasty surprises right after I've woken up each day, but so far, they've all just been personal hindrances. I hope the severity of these bad news don't happen to be increasing over time(like they seem to), or I don't want to wake up tomorrow.

Fuck this gay earth.

>bacteriumcaptcha: radio durans

They should nationalize the industry and re-invest it's profits on an intensive space colonization program as well as social welfare (including shelter, education, food, sanitation, healthcare) as well as a proper educational system.

>>3959295
I don't care. They're a lot more civilized than this board.

There's no way in hell I'm letting this rabble run things.

>>3959314
Nice to see I'm not the only one to notice this. I'll read the book, he likely knows his shit better than me.

Look on the bright side /sci/, we got to see mankind at its giddy height of Justin Bieber, Goldman Sachs, reality TV and endless iPhone rehashing. It was a hell of a wave! Now, we've got to crash this barrel and pit it, to quote a certain stoned surfer.

That, or violently overthrow the government, reorient human society through a period of change that might well necessitate Stalinist levels of non-freedom in order to reign in our depravity, and launch ourselves after some careful retooling into the stars as some sort of hiveman species of Human v 2.0, but that sounds fucking HARD! Not being sarcastic, that sounds so god damn hard.

how can anyone be stupid enough to read the OP article and not see how insanely biased it was. They didn't even provide details about anything to back up the claims.

http://www.news-press.com/article/20111027/NEWS01/110270418/NASA-bemoans-space-funding

>>3959314
No, it's just most humans are incapable of thinking in the long term and the most influential governments of the world are ran by democracies. Every single prediction, no matter how well founded in science, will always *always* have detractors who will yell even louder, divide the population on the matter, and essentially ensure nothing ever gets done. Global warming and the way american society approaches it seems like the most prominent example here, though there are countless others.

>>3959344

What's your email? You might be needed in the future.

>>3959344
Hard indeed. I doubt we'll do anything about it here in America. People here are really dumbed down now. 40% illiteracy rate in Kentucky where I live. Feels like I am the only one in this place the reads. Seriously the local Libraries are virtually vacant all the time. Its not just nobody is going to the library, nobody is taking books out either. I've worked at few. Its depressing. The majority of the content on shelves now is religious or new-age stuff.

>>3959344
>>3959314
Well, if all that shit hits the fan, I've got some savings which I'll use to get to tasmania and ship some equipment there with me.

Call the tehcnocratic republic our Foundation project (google: asimov+foundation if you don't get it ).

>>3959344

>mispelled canceled twice
the fuck nigger?

>>3959355
Tasmania will likely be impractical, Western Antarctica with climate-controlled geodesic domes seems far more likely.
IN OTHER NEWS: RUSSIA IS AWESOME
http://www.whatsonningbo.com/news-5425-ice-city-umka-russia-plans-to-settle-on-kotelniy-island-for-a
rctic-minerals.html

>>3959366
How did you come to the conclusion that founding your nation in Western Antarctica would be more practical than doing it in Tasmania?

Also, have you considered making it sea-based?

>>3959356
See, that's the benefit of a free society right there-thank you for that man. Pol Pot is the quintessential example of managing to royally screw the pooch in terms of trying to reform existing social reality. Wound up having millions of people herded out of cities into Killing Fields to be worked to death, strangled with plastic bags, all in the name of "Year Zero", creating an agrarian-oriented new society.

Not even remotely practical, anti-intellectual, a disgusting failure in every way for all its vaunted intentions.

So my question to you is simple-do we learn from Pol Pot's, and others like him, mistakes and see about trying to reform things without it turning into a bureaucratic murder orgy, or do we just give up completely on the whole project of solving these problems?
How do we reconcile limited resources with human greed if NOT through, dare I say it, authoritarian rationing?

>>3959372
wait....oh Jesus Christ on a rocket-powered pogo-stick, it's late. I thought that was a stylized picture of Pol Pot. God damn it, hahaha.

>>3959373
Clinton was not a great President, NAFTA was retarded in the long run in some ways, but he wasn't a complete fuck up.

>>3959373
>no wars
>us involvement in 1999 nato bombings

not disagreeing on the economy though

>>3959366
>RUSSIA IS AWESOME

>totalitarian state
>protesters are arrested and put in government vans
>critics of the regime are exiled
>activists against the regime are poisoned

-----------------------------------------------------
Freedom house statistics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2010_Freedom_House_world_map.svg

Russia is "Not free".
-----------------------------------------------------
Press freedom index:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index

Russia takes the 140th place, below Cambodia, Ethiopia, Nepal...
-----------------------------------------------------
Corruption Perception Index:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

Russia takes 154th place - even worse corruption than in Iran, Yemen, Libya...
-----------------------------------------------------
Satisfaction With Life / Happiness index:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisfaction_with_Life_Index

Russia - 167th place, way unhappier than Ethiopia, Chad, Niger...
-----------------------------------------------------
Self-inflicted injuries map:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Self-inflicted_injuries_world_map_-_DALY_-_WHO2004.svg

Russia is among the world's top self-injury rates.

>>3959386
Your point being?

>>3959386
Oh, and forgot my picture.

>>3959389
That it's government can be overthrown easily, it's industry can be nationalized and the profits can be re-invested in the space industry, for an extensive space colonization.

>>3959382

What. Nafta is good. Free trade good.

>>3959386
Woah man, Russia has fucked up.

>>3959370
>How did you come to the conclusion that founding your nation in Western Antarctica would be more practical than doing it in Tasmania?

I believe Australia is heading in a direction that will only make it more powerful, or conquered by China/Chinese interests.

>>3959373
As the other anon put it, he wasn't great. He just wasn't totally shit.

>>3959386
>protesters are arrested and put in government vans
And this is different to Occupy _________ protestors being arrested how? Or do they get taken and never seen again?

>>3959398
Exactly. And every major fuck up like this involves a potential revolutionary situation which can be used by us to push our values forward far beyond this board, and far beyond Russia itself.

USA.
Way to jump that shark.

>>3959404
Time for a revolutionary meritocratic party then.

>>3959409
Do it.

>>3959402
>And this is different to Occupy _________ protestors being arrested how? Or do they get taken and never seen again?

That they still were able to protest, and most of the Occ.Wst. protesters are still able to. In Russia, in a few minutes, government vans would show up and take the protesters away. I'm a Russian by the way, but don't live in Russia right now (temporarily). I highly distaste the government which has settled in.

>>3959415
>>3959409

I found a logo for our project. Do you like it?

>>3959434
Logos are generally supposed to be simple designs. Besides, I'm not going to do any serious work until 2020 where I can find out if I'll have enough funds to carry our project through to the unveiling in 2039.

So thanks or no thanks, the TRS is on hold until 2020.
Sorry man.

>>3959402

> And this is different to Occupy _________ protestors being arrested how?

Occupy protesters are arrested for breaking the law. They have yet to be arrested for demonstrating inside the planned area with a permit, excepting violence or noise disturbance. They are usually given warning too.

Besides that, Russia arrests people not because they are breaking the law, but because what they are saying goes against Russia. Oftentimes people will be breaking no law, and given little to no warning.

And yes, many are never heard from again.

If you'd like to know a true American infringement, look at all of the DEA/ATF raids which were done without warrants and resulted in death of completely innocent people. They also no longer announce themselves, so in a raid they literally just show up to your house and bash in your front or back door, "secure" the house (which is when people die), then proceed to search it - even if it is the wrong house - the neighbors they don't have a judge's permission to search.

Ruby Ridge, Waco, and countless other tragedies have happened all in the name of the "greater societal good" arbitrarily outlawing certain drugs has given us.

That isn't even considering Mexico. Do you really think the Cartel would have any power if they didn't deal in illicit products?

>>3959434
...I just re-read and looked at the posts you quoted, I feel I may be discussing an entirely different matter now. If so ignore the previous post from me.

>>3959421
They're basically the degenerated USSR's retarded child, the ultimate intersection in corporatism and crass crony capitalism.

We need a revolutionary movement motivated by coomon goals but dedicated to preserving essential freedoms, something with the raw power of the terribly flawed but not totally ineffective socialist governments of the 20th century but the respect for dissent endemic to western Europe.

>>3959456
Something you might find interesting. Don't let the title turn you off.
http://pastebin.com/SvzTeBqs

>>3959449
>Occupy protesters are arrested for breaking the law.
1000+ arrests.
3 charged.
0 convictions.

>>3959467

Is that true? Source?

If thats true that really bad.

Fuck the police.

I'm glad, long overdue. Now we can fucking focus on problems like medicine and curing disease and feeding the homless instead of fucking around in psace.

>>3959467

Yes, yes, but I mean there is something instigating the arrests usually.

When police tell protesters to disburse several times because they aren't in the right area, and there is even minor resistance, the cops go full hog run and detain a few protesters. Mostly they don't have much evidence for anything substantial. Even then, it costs the state immensely to actually go through court with each case.

Yes, it is fucking ridiculous and the police sometimes act like nothing more than a gang of mobsters or panicky children with guns but my point is in America there is still the occasional semblance of due process, even if it is either inept or strangled with beauracracy.

>>3959481

>>3959485
sorry, are you one of those faggots that wasn't happy with living on earth? Did you put together model space shuttles when you were a kid, thinking "someday!"

Humans belong on Earth. Let the Chinese worry about space.

I'll just leave this here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6ugFcwsgpE

>>3959487
Please please please be trolling.

>>3959491
You honestly think humans living beyond Earth is a good idea?

That still gives us like what, 8 billion years? Not good enough of a fucking run for a species?

>>3959490

holy shit

>>3959498
I think sustaining civilization is a good idea. We have a much better chance if we spread to space and other worlds. And no, Earth will be too hot to support liquid water in a billion years.

>>3959502
A billion years is still a fucking large amount of time.

Fucking around in space isn't a priority right now. We have real problems on earth.

And honestly, I'm glad I live during this time period. The idea of being a human born anywhere except Earth disturbs me greatly.

Are they TRYING to kill America?!

>>3959504
>not being born on earth disturbs me greatly
Confirmed for troll or just really not belonging in /sci/.

>>3959504
YOU SOLVE PROBLEMS ON EARTH USING TECHNOLOGY AND SPACE. WE FULLY KNOW WHAT WE NEED TO DO TO FIX NEARLY EVERYTHING, THE FACT IS WE DON'T HAVE FUNDING OR ENOUGH SUPPORT FOR THESE THINGS.
The simple picture of Earthrise from Apollo 11 spawned the modern environmental movement. Inspired tens of millions across the world to enter into more science and technology-oriented learning and courses. The kids with toy spaceships grew up to be the pioneers of Silicon Valley. AND AGAIN: IT'S NOT A FUCKING ZERO-SUM GAME. WE CAN FIX STUFF AND GO TO MARS TOO.

>The idea of being a human born anywhere except Earth disturbs me greatly.
CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVES DETEST THE IDEA OF GAY PEOPLE ADOPTING A CHILD. Your viewpoint is not much different other than 'it sit right with me. Them dam' Lunarians. Being taller than me and getting all the chicks.'

>>3959511
'it doesn't sit right with me'*

>>3959511
Comparing what I said to homophobia is one of the most retarded things anyone in the history of the universe has ever done.

You are officially King Retard.

>>3959517
Whats your rationalization for humans being born on other worlds being creepy?

>>3959517
You and homophobes both want people to not do something because it runs against their gut feelings.

mandatory reading

also this
>>3959490

>>3959490
Oh wow, yeah, put some dumb ass piano music behind what he's saying along with some sped up photography of various landscapes in the world and somehow it's PROFOUND


give me a break.

>>3959527

1/10, that's the best I can do etc

>>3958884
>>3958968
All this is telling me is that the sooner you get out of the soul-crushing american educational system, the more life-energy you have left to fuel your ambitions.

>>3959523
>>3959522
I didn't say that at all. I said the idea of being a human born anywhere except earth disturbs me greatly.

I like Earth. I was born here, as was every single human since the beginning of humans. We're sort of built for this planet.

>Washing Times
>Zubrin
>Unnamed Sources

>>3959531
So what specifically is disturbing you, if say, humans were born on thousand kilometer wide O'Neill cylinders and it spun to give Earth gravity? Is it the lower gravity and different effects on physiology that disturbs you?

>>3959531
Does it disturb you that people have set up stations in Antarctica?

>>3959534
No, it's essentially the closeness to Earth, our home planet. I'm not saying what other humans do disturbs me. I'm saying, the idea of not being born here, me personally, on this planet, fucks with my head. I don't like it. I love Earth too much. If private space trips become affordable during my lifetime, I will never take one.

>>3959536
no

People are talking about this on /pol/ too.

>>>/pol/83146

Dont know if I should save you all the rage.

>>3959543
But we weren't built to survive in Antarctica.

>>3959547
Comparing going to Antarctica to being born in another solar system is a really fucking big leap.

>>3959543
So, gut feeling.

>>3959547
that is right, we are built to survive everywhere

>>3959550
Why? One is inhospitable to current human life, without it's fancy tech, and the other would likely be easier to live in, depending on the specific planet.

>>3959551
Yes, it's a personal feeling I have about things. Which doesn't lend any validity to your trollish homophobia comparison.

>>3959558
>Yes, it's a personal feeling I have about things. Which doesn't lend any validity to your trollish homophobia comparison.
Nah, actually it does.

>>3959557
Because one is on Earth, where our race was born and evolved on, and the other is an unfathomable distance away.

In one scenario, you can be back home within 24 hours. In the other, planet Earth is not even relevant at all. It's basically a completely different species at that point.

Which is fine. I am just very glad I don't live during that transition. I doubt you'd want to either.

>>3959527
> and somehow it's PROFOUND
This is how 90% of the populace WILL think.
They are too ignorant, too stupid of the truth.
You may hate popularized science and sappy music videos, but that is what works.
It's the only thing that that works.

>>3959560
Do you really have your head that far up your ass? So people can't have feelings or emotions about things now?

DUDE WHERE IS THE DATA FOR YOUR OPINION ABOUT SOMETHING?!

>>3959563
So distance is your only gripe?
Really?
Wow. I really just don't know how your mind works.

>>3959564
Good point, I guess, but do you think those people come away with any more of an initiative? They can just be swayed again by some kind of anti-scientific rant by some pundit.

>>3959567
You've admitted it's just a gut feeling. I'm wondering how you'd react, say, 50 years from now when you meet some guy that was born on Mars. Would you be like one of those old-time racists and call him hilarious, supposedly derogatory names or would you just act really awkward around them?

>>3959568
My mind works by the fact that I like things like forests and the ocean and the moon and the way dirt smells.

I'm not saying humans exploring other planets disturbs me, the idea of me having to be a part of it does.

In other words, I would not want to ever leave Earth for any extended period of time. So the idea of me being born on Mars or some other very far away place, not knowing Earth's splendors, greatly depresses and disturbs me.

So I am glad that I am not part of the human chapter.

>>3959563
What's so special about earth?
>on earth, you can go home in 24 hours
NEWS: if you were born on another planet, you would consider that planet your home, and no matter where you were on that planet, you could get back home in 24 hours

I don't know if you lack imagination, or are just really really set in your ways.

>>3959575
So you dislike the radically different environments of the other planets?
How would you feel if those planets were terraformed? With a culture of their own? Think Naboo from Star Wars.

>>3959571
> They can just be swayed again by some kind of anti-scientific rant by some pundit.
It's a War, Jimmy, and their hearts are our battlefield.
Whenever we don't advance on them, they advance on us, and in this case the land is alive and listening.
It just can only hear the loudest voice.

>>3959573
Why do you keep saying "gut" feeling? You're acting like you yourself have no feelings or emotions about things. Do you deduce which women or men you find attractive? Give me a fucking break, man.

And I have no clue how I would react to a guy born on Mars. I doubt I would demean him or call him names, because I'm not a weird hateful bigot like you for some reason believe I am.

>>3958599

This is all the fault of SLS. We cannot afford it, we do not need it, yet they are trying to squeeze it into tight budget.

The reason is because it is a jobs program for contractors and employs people in NASA states, so lobbyists and politicians are all over it.

They dont care about space, but about this flow of money going on.

Cheaper and faster alternative (propellant depots) is being intentionaly neglected.

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1955/1

(dont be put off by TEA party references, they are right in this one).

>>3959579
If the planet had everything Earth had, it would be a completely different story, but even if it was very similar, I would still miss the exact things Earth has.

>>3959580
Yes, but what I'm saying is that it's a momentary thing.

Think dude on his iphone googling shit.

It does not matter to most people. What matters is the people that get the work done. Most people don't even trust doctors, much less spooky scientists.

>>3959584
If you were born on another planet, earth would seem alien to you. You would not miss the green forests. Get it into your head.

>>3959588
But they DO trust, Jack.
They trust the first person they hear on the subject, and then they spread the word and then that person become the 'top authority' for his bunch and it goes on and on.
It's first come first serve, and the only way to counter it is to be loud and consistent with simple messages they can repeat without meaning.
YOu are right, they don't REALLY care, but they like having something to argue about, and you know what? THose are also the sort of people who will waste their time making complaints to businesses and politicians, because even if they don't really care, they still Trust, they Believe that it will do something, just because they don't know better.
And take millions of people who don't know better and what do you get? A political movement.

>>3959591
Yes I know. I'm speaking from the perspective of myself, who was born on Earth, obviously.

I'm basically trying to say I feel very much attached and connected to Earth, and would never want to leave this place.

>>3958615
>one in which there are no government funded projects
>there are no government funded projects
>no government funded projects

This webpage would like to have a word with you
http://funding-programs.idilogic.aidpage.com/

>>3959593
Don't forget, though: The global map once wasn't so filled-in.

>>3958816
>Futurologists everywhere got it all wrong.
Not really, pic related.
Looks remarcably like
>>3959302
says. Lots of converging shit, and not in a good way.

But of course...

" The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error if error seduce them. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim"

"The Crowd" A study of the popular Mind

...and this was (and still is) the real problem.

>>3959593
Use a little imagination, then. Think about it from the viewpoint of a hypothetical another you, who was born on a planet orbiting Lalande 21185.

He's happy, his parents are part of the colonization crew.
He's got friends, the children of other colonists.
And today, after finally getting his first big-people suit, he gets to play outside with the other kids.

But not tomorrow, because it's his turn to scrub the dome over the greenhouse. But he's happy to do that too, because it means that he gets another helping of ice cream afterwards.

>>3959600

I like how everything except resources suddenly goes against trend.

Uh, guys, NASA is the civilian arm of America's space program. The USAF space program got a budget increase and they're the ones developing and planning shit like mass drivers, asteroid mining suits, jets capable of escape velocity and re-entry, asteroid crackers, etc. DARPA also has a few projects related to space.

Basically NASA was the weakest link in the American space program.

>>3959604
>"There is a common perception, even among knowledgeable environmental scientists, that the limits-to-growth model was a colossal failure, since obviously its predictions of extreme pollution and population decline have not come true. But what is not well known is that the original output, based on the computer technology of the time, had a very misleading feature: There were no dates on the graph between the years 1900 and 2100. If one draws a timeline along the bottom of the graph for the halfway point of 2000, then the model results are almost exactly on course some 35 years later in 2008 (with a few appropriate assumptions). Of course, how well it will perform in the future when the model behavior gets more dynamic is not yet known. Although we do not necessarily advocate that the existing structure of the limits-to-growth model is adequate for the task to which it is put, it is important to recognize that its predictions have not been invalidated and in fact seem quite on target. We are not aware of any model made by economists that is as accurate over such a long time span."
http://www.esf.edu/efb/hall/2009-05Hall0327.pdf

>>3959632

I mean, its also as accurate to say "its just going to go up forever" because historically it has just gone up forever. Or maybe it will keep going up for 200 years and then collapse.

Im not suggesting growth is infinite. But I think you need some kind of rational to explain why it would start going down then when the graph claims it will.

I can't think of a better thing to happen to space travel than NASA shutting down. We'll be on the moon by 2020.

What is the fucking source?

The writer just claims alot of things, with no source.

Noooooooo!
Don't cancel my satellite TV!!!

wait.. what are we talking about?