/sci/ - Science & Math

Why not?
I wish everyone would become a cyborg teenage girl wearing cat ears, maid outfits and flash their panties every time

>>3909401
>When do I get a larger penis.

Anon, we've been through this. Your penis is just fine the way it is.

I look forward to the day when the human body is customizable.

>mfw

What's Ron Paul's position on human experiments holding back transhumanism?

>>3909453
Let the states decide for themselves.

Why does everyone simply want to use technology to fulfill their sexual fantasies?

>>3909453
I's imagine Paul wouldn't care if people experimented on humans as long as it were privatized and consensual .

>>3909460
Because being a geek doesn't make us sexy in real life.

>>3909460
because sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, and belief in said technology, is indistinguishable from fantasy, and adherence to the prediction of said technology is indistinguishable from religion.

>>3909460

Because sex is an extremely strong driving force that shapes almost all facets of our lives.

>>3909460
Well, sex is one of the most basic instincts...

We have more promise in eugenics.

If we do it right we could have super people living to 200 years old.

dunno and yes.

>>3909504
It's also driven alot of technological development for the past 30 years, if not much much longer.

>porn porn porn

>>3909505
You do realize natural selection takes too long? Biotech is much more promising than any "natural" scheme. 200 years? I'll take immortality in a computer thanks.

>>3909505

I disagree. If i replaced my joints with metal ones I'd never suffer from joint pain and they could be easily replaced. Even I was eugenically selected from the best possible specimens there's an upper limit on biological systems as to how complex and self-repairing they are: energy.

I would have to eat constantly to maintain enough energy to achieve what a machine can do for a far lower energy expenditure. Plus machines don't mutate and eventually develop cancer, which is always a risk regardless of your genetics. Mechanical parts don't contract diseases, (computer virus aside, this isn't Deus Ex), they don't have days when they just feel shitty and they can be constantly upgraded with extremely reliable results whereas biological systems always have a chance of just not fucking working.

Ask any biologist and they'll tell you a number of experiment just don't fucking work regardless of how well you set them up.

>>3909521
> It's also driven alot of technological development for the past 30 years, if not much much longer.

Not as much as CHEAP OIL has. And the Cheap Oil is essentially gone. So this pace of development will slow remarkably until the very idea of high-tech becomes a wistful memory, and actual high-tech advancements return to being some sort of rich man's hobby.

>>3909541
>implying maintenance on such a system wouldn't be fuck-all expensive
>implying that the human body isn't great at what it does. that is, if we haven't already perfected nanotechnology by the time we have robotic body parts, then repair to 'organs' or what have you would be easier

>>3909553
b-b-b-but
>shale

>>3909553
Cheap oil has held back a lot of technological development since there was little incentive to improve on technologies that were already cheap due to the oil.

>>3909558

Even Kurzweil admits that a fully embedded nanotech society won't be around for about 150-200 years. Its one thing to piss about with nanotubes and AFMs, its another to actually have functioning nanobots that can be programmed to work en masse to do ANYTHING, let alone corrective surgery or organ repair in an organism.

Considering that people NOW have replacement limbs that allow them to exceed human capability, (see those foot replacements that allow people to spring faster than an Olympian or the MIT professor with extendable legs that let him climb rockfaces), robotics will come way before nanotech.

>>3909565
The shale- and tar-based oil sources are not cheap. Some of them are energy-lossy to even exploit.

do you think that, given the development and progress that stem cell research has made, that people will simply get organs and body parts regrown with their own stem cells when they need it rather than depending on computers and metal?

and if not, why not?

>>3909576
> Cheap oil has held back a lot of technological development since there was little incentive to improve on technologies that were already cheap due to the oil.

Although true, those developments still required a cheap energy source to bring to the oil-fueled market that would use them in the first place. So you made no point whatsoever.

>>3909592
As oil becomes more expensive the alternatives will become more competitive, and as the technology is further developed they'll also become cheaper. It's demand that drives technological development, not some cheap but limited commodity.

>>3909540
Earth to dumbass...

Eugenics is not natural selection, it's the exact opposite: It's forced domestic breeding.

Which is how we transformed wolves into poodles in less than 6000 years.

>>3909619

This

NEED drives innovation and technological advance. Rarely does ideology do it.

>>3909629
How is force breeding an evolutionary success into a laughable failure an argument for eugenics?

i think you meant to post this here >>>/g/

PART 1 OF 2
>>3909619
> As oil becomes more expensive the alternatives will become more competitive, and as the technology is further developed they'll also become cheaper.

No they won't, since Cheap Petroleum was like the only real magic substance that humanity ever found, other than nuclear materials. Each barrel of oil contains about 25000 man-hours of equivalent labor. Nothing beats that, combined with its practicality. Note that nuclear is extremely impractical which is why it's limited to the military and to large utility installations.

Oil was literally the best fuel that humanity ever found, and ever will find, since there's nothing in the extensive databases of physics and chemistry that replaces petroleum. Oil, coal and natural gas (all fossil fuels, hence all will run out) are a lot of sunlight stored up in chemical bonds. There's just nothing else at all that provides those, to those densities.

>>3909660

PART 2 OF 2
>>3909619
So once cheap oil is just a memory, we're only going to have more expensive forms of fuel. Only. Of course, the expense equation could shift in ways that will still prove my point. Poor men desperate for food could spend their lives harvesting wood and peat, and run around to your home, offering to sell those for just a few pieces of bread and some cheese. For a time you'd think that that fuel was cheap, until one of those desperate men takes a club and brains you with it, so he can steal your food supply.

So be very careful, friend, about how you perceive "cheap". Anyone can try to cash out their society to make themselves wealthy, hence make things "cheap". But when life itself becomes cheap thereby, a lot of what you depend on now as intangibles, will become very tangible at the point of a sword.

> It's demand that drives technological development, not some cheap but limited commodity.

Sorry, wrong. You have no concept at all how much cheap energy drove people to make highly artificial demands, like living far from their workplaces, thus undergoing long commutes that will become expensive once oil becomes expensive.

>>3909401

It will happen within my lifetime, however not everyone of our era will enjoy it.

>>3909558
>maintenance
>not using carbon nanotubules

you're bad at futurism

>>3909680
>>3909685

I'm in my 20s, live in the first world, got a Masters degree in Chem. Eng, plenty of cash and excellent prospects. I will be in the vanguard of the transhuman movement and about 5.5 billion people won't be.

And I don't care. Sounds selfish, and its bloody well is but at least I'm honest about it. I intend to live forever and I'm in precisely the right position, age and field to make that happen.

>>3909680
>>3909685
Man, talk about lack of imagination. You're like one of the people that thought nothing would ever replace the oil lamp because it was cheap and provided unprecedented light quality, then the light bulb was invented. Nothing requires us to continue with the same paradigms driven by oil. Technology will continue to advance and perfectly economical ways around oil are already being developed.

>>3909700

This man will live a lonely and bitter life.

>>3909724

this, squared.

i dont think your asking the right questions, nor have the right ambition for a transhuminist. shouldnt you be more onerned about the conciousness aspect of human existence and reality?

>>3909401
Left-arm is currently fucking useless. No qualms about that one. I like the rest of me well enough. I'd go for eye augmentation if I could keep my iris's somehow, as my vision is shit. I'd be okay with modding anything in my head.

>>3909700

...and I'll be there with you. There will be people like us and people who think we're monsters. Luckily for us, we'll be able to do things like survive a vacuum and sleep for a million years, so no need to worry. We can outlast the fleshbags. Oh, but I'm not going to make the transition until they perfect all the external sensory organs. I still want to be able to taste, touch and feel things

>>3909724
>>3909731

Fuck yeah transhumanism. I have nothing to contribute to this thread

>>3909460
Have you not seen Idiocracy before? All future technologies are driven by sexual desire.

>When do you think we'll be able to produce artificial body parts equal or greater in quality to our natural ones,
Already done. Check out Hugh Herr's video on his robotic extenda-legs and Aimee Mullins running prosthesis. As for all other organs, I give it until 2040 until all are superior to baseline organs.

>and would you amputate your body to become a cyborg?
Absolutely.

>become transhuman
>ID bar stamped on inside of forehead or left hand for easy checking
>decades later, transcendent aliens appear
>they check for the ID badges in the places they foretold
>they take every natural human and perfect their biology so they can life forever in awesome alien ships
>transhuman scum scattered into deep space as punishment

Fuck transhumanity, when do we get Virtual Reality?

>>3910161

punishment for trying to get what the aliens were giving away anyway?

>>3910137
Idiocracy was such a bad movie jesus christ
so bad

What fields of science would this involve?

>>3910161
>inside of forehead
>aliens will save natural humans
You mean take the natural humans into their zoos.

i would be willing to remove malfunctioning body parts to replace them with synthetic ones
my entire family needs to wear glasses/contacts
hell i would kill for robotic eyes, they don't even have to provide fancy shit.. gimme normal vision and i'm fine ;_;

>>3910161
Call me cynical but I don't think that aliens who need to tag us like concentration camp jews are going to be benevolent.

>>3910161
but but.. what if we humans are the ancient aliens?

Bumping with nanotechnological agumentation.

>A respirocyte is a theoretical engineering design for an artificial red blood cell about a micron in diameter - a machine that cannot be constructed with current technology. Respirocytes are micron-scale spherical robotic red blood cells comprised of nanometer-scale components, containing an internal pressure of 1000 atmospheres of compressed oxygen and carbon dioxide. The intense pressure would be safely contained in two separate high pressure vessels likely made of pure diamond. At this intense pressure, a respirocyte could hold 236 times more oxygen and carbon dioxide than our natural red blood cells. Respirocytes are an elegantly simplistic design, powered by glucose in the blood and able to manage carbonic acidity via an onboard internal nanocomputer and a multitude of chemical/pressure sensors. 3D nanoscale fabrication will allow respirocytes to be manufactured in practically unlimited supply very inexpensively, directly from a computer design.
> An injection of such nanotechnological devices would enable a person to run at top speed for 15 minutes or remain underwater for four hours on a single breath. Because of their smaller form factor, 1µm diameter, compared with the 8µm diameter of a red blood cell, respirocytes would have potential unique medical applications including the prevention and treatment of ischemia (inadequate oxygen delivery to tissues.) Being smaller in diameter, respirocytes could squeeze into much thinner blood vessels, delivering vital oxygen to cells.

>>3912022

> A respirocyte consists of three major design components: rotors to take in oxygen from the lungs and release it in the bloodstream; rotors to gather carbon dioxide from the bloodstream and release it in the lungs; and rotors to take in glucose from the bloodstream for generating energy in a process similar to cellular respiration. Preliminary studies have found that extremely smooth diamondoid surfaces would be practically invisible to white blood cells, making the devices biocompatible.

> Respirocytes were designed and analyzed in detail by Robert Freitas, a nanotechnology researcher at the Institute for Molecular Manufacturing. The paper describing the concept is titled, "A Mechanical Artificial Red Cell: Exploratory Design in Medical Nanotechnology." Nanomedical applications such as those envisioned by Freitas could become commonplace in the mid-to-long term futures of many of those alive today.

> Respirocytes would have interesting applications for diving. A diver with respirocytes in his/her bloodstream would be able to dive for hours on a single breath while avoiding both the bends and narcosis, since these afflictions are caused by breathing compressed air underwater (under pressure) which allows more nitrogen to dissolve into the bloodstream than at one atmosphere of pressure. Returning to the surface after prolonged submersion can cause the nitrogen dissolved in the blood to return to a gas (bubbles) more quickly than it can it can be removed.

>>3912026

>The dramatic enhancement of human performance made possible by respirocytes could cause the body to overheat. It is also possible that such enhancement to one part of the body will have unforeseen consequences to other bodily systems. Only with actual testing of nanotechnological respirocytes in a living body will determine for certain exactly how these devices will behave in the real world.

> Eventually, as we continue to enhance and replace the biological body one part at a time, artificial white blood cells will likely be developed to augment and ultimately replace the human immune system. Even sub-cellular systems such as the organelles, and even the entire nucleus within each of our cells are not beyond technological replacement - at least in theory.

> "Microbivore" is the name given to a speculative future micromachine containing numerous nanomachine systems, which function together as an artificial phagocyte (white blood cell.) A fleet of microbivores could be injected into a person and act as a supplement or even a complete replacement for their immune system. The microbivore concept was invented by Robert A. Freitas Jr., who has outlined their design in great detail. At present (2010) we lack the "atom-by-atom" molecular manufacturing technology required to construct such a device. Some futurists expect the dream of molecular nanotechnology (first concieved by Dr. Eric Drexler) to become a reality sometime next decade, (2020-2030) enabling a massive leap forward in our construction capabilities.

> Numerous pathologies exist that are caused by the presence of foreign organisms in the bloodstream. Infection by foreign blood-borne organisms is especially dangerous in individuals with compromised immune systems (such as those suffering from AIDS.) Current methods to control such organisms are largely ineffectual, or merely temporarily arrest their growth rather than wiping them out entirely. Most physicians would welcome the addition of syntheitc nanorobots capable of selectively annihilating such organisms.

>The microbivore design calls for a 3.4 micron (millionths of a meter) long, by 2 micron wide oblate spheroid shaped device, consisting of 610 billion structural atoms, and filled with roughly 150 billion gas/water molecules. The entire nanobot has a gross geometric volume of just over 12.1 cubic microns (including two normally empty internal materials processing bays totalling 4 cubic microns of displaced volume.) Its size ensures unobstructed passage through even the narrowest of human capillaries, which are approximately 4 microns in diameter. A single microbivore will consume 100-200 picowatts of continuous power while in operation, and will digest and eliminate pathogenic microbes at a maximum throughput of 2 cubic microns per 30 second cycle - enough room to internalize virtually any species of bacteria in a single gulp. The design includes 10-fold renundancy on most mechanisms, excepting the largest structural elements, to ensure high reliability.

> As with natural phagocytes, microbivores would devour, digest, and discharge any viruses, bacteria or fungi unlucky enough to be detected. The microbivore would use species-specific reversible binding sites to firmly attach itself to the microbe, which would then be directed to the ingestion port by telescoping robotic grapples in a similar fashion to the way a squid uses its tentacles to catch and hold its prey while consuming it.

>From the ingestion chamber, the targetted microbe would be blended by mechanical blades in a morcellation chamber, then passed to a digestion chamber where the processed remains of the invader would be chemically analyzed before being further broken down by a specifically selected sequence of 40 engineered enzymes, into biologically neutral effluent (mononucleotides, amino acids, free fatty acids, simple sugars and glycerol.) which would be released harmlessly back into the bloodstream through an exhaust port on the back of the device, where it could be used by the body's molecular machinery (cells) for its nutritional content.

> Getting microbivores into the body would be a matter of simply introducing them intravenously. Preliminary estimates suggest microbivores would be around 80 times more efficient, and about 1,000 times faster acting than our natural white blood cells.

> Once their mission is complete they could be programmed to exit the bloodstream via the intestines, if desired. Clinical use of microbivores, and the many other species of nanobots thus far imagined, could revolutionize the field of medicine. Mass fabrication and theraputic use of such devices (thanks to molecular nanotech) over the coming decades will lead to cures for many diseases, barring any unforseen insurmountable technical challenges, for many people alive today.

> Platelets - or thrombocytes - are irregular, roughly spheroidal, 2 micron diameter, anuclear (nucleus-free) blood cells that have an average lifespan of just 5-9 days. Platelets circulate in our bloodstreams and are integral in achieving hemostasis (stoppage of blood flow) after injury. An average, healthy person has between 150,000 and 450,000 platelets per µl (microlitre) of blood. In the event of an injury, platelets gather at the site and activate, becoming sticky and clumping together to form a barrier to seal the damaged blood vessel and stop the bleeding. Platelets are also responsible for releasing clotting factors. The image shows a comparison, from left to right, of a red blood cell, an activated platelet, and a white blood cell. Nature's solution can be quite effective, but it does take valuable time.

> The clottocyte is a, yet theoretical, design by Robert A. Freitas Jr. for an artificial, mechanical platelet. The response time of a clottocyte would be on the order of 100-1000 times quicker than nature's platelets, achieving complete hemostasis in as short as one second.

> Clottocytes would have several distinct advantages over their natural counterparts. For instance platelet function can be adversely affected by drugs such as aspirin. Clottocytes would be immune to the effects of drugs, and could function optimally irregardless of chemical fluctuations in the bloodstream.

>>3912050

> Clottocytes represent an example of a uniquely nanotechnological benefit that could not - even in principle - be achieved by biotechnology. Clottocytes could potentially be on the order of 10,000 times more effective at achieving clotting, by volume, than natural platelets, therefore being required at only ~0.01% of the concentration of platelets in the bloodstream. Clottocytes would be approximately 2 micron diameter spherical nanorobots, powered by serum oxyglucose, and controlled by an onboard nanocomputer. They would contain a compactly folded fiber mesh which could be unfurled in the immediate vicinity of a damaged blood vessel. The overlapping nettings deployed by activated clottocytes would trap blood cells and halt bleeding almost instantaneously.

When? Hard to say prosthetics and artificial senses have made great leaps in the last few years but the human body is pretty damn good at what it does it will be at least a few decades before a augmentations are available probably longer.

However when they do become available I'll be first in line. Top of my christmas list is enhanced vision with recording capability and integrated audiovisual playback. Close second is wireless computer interface. As for things like arms and legs lets face it I don't need to be able to lift a car and commercially available options wont let you do that anyways so I'll stick with my own unless they become damaged or there is a very compeling reason to upgrade.

>>3912052
Colonel Coffee Mug:
Though you are likely insufferable at parties, I sincerely hope your autism leads you one day to make a significant contribution in the field of nanotechnology/nanomachinery.

Sincerely,
Anon

>>3910175

We already have things like teledildonics, eye-movement trackers, and brain-wave readers that allow hands-free control of games.

In ten years, we'll have 1Thz CPUs, petabytes of memory and SSD space, and GB/sec internet connections.

That should be enough.

>>3912089
Given the historical evidence of his constant attention to /sci/, it is unlikely he will ever produce anything of recognition or use.

Sincerely,
Obviousness of Truth

>>3910161
>implying natural humans wouldn't be wiped out in the transhuman human wars

>>3912100

On /sci/ enough to decide who is on /sci/ too much

>Irony

>>3912106
>not following references to even respond to the direct insult.

Do you think augmentation will become almost like a trendy "fashion" thing like in Deus Ex? I

/sci/ - Science Fiction & Math

>>3909540
I would get rid of anything to become a cyborg, as long as the part was perceived to be better and it did not involve destroying my brain.

Also something that didn't need to be maintained somewhere hard to get to every week or month or year.

>>3912100

Nah, I just browse the front page and see if Inurdaes or Mad are there, then go to the archives and search for "colonel" and "transhumanism". If anybody mentions me, I'll drop in out of nowhere, if anyone mentions transhumanism, I'll dump the usual for a while and fend off the trolls.