/sci/ - Science & Math

The same thing that happened when dinosaurs drunk all the water on the planet after tens of millions of years.

Oh wait, that didn't happen.

But basically, efficiency (this stage) -> self-sustainability -> automation -> space colonization

Don't worry man, a new and glorious dawn awaits.

>>3911506

Do you think we'll terraform Mars?

>>3911521
Abso-fucking-lutely.

Human mankind will either:
-Evolve into highly advanced, interstellar race
-or die in horrible armageddon

choose wisely

They will relinquish control of the planet back to the plants just like those plants did about 2.6bya. Plants gave us a chance and we failed.

>>3911506

Wouldn't it be easier to make the barren parts of the Earth habitable before we move to even more barren space rocks?

>>3911552
Efficency = Do more with what we have. This allows greater reach into more remote areas that might not be great for living in otherwise. Dubai's Masdar City is an example.
Self-sustainability = Make a huge dome, build whatever you want in it. Alternatively, start up a huge civilian underwater colony. As long as you have electricity and you're recycling the vast majority of your resources, you've got access to all of Earth now. If you wish to expand into the Sahara and slowly make it into a lush savannah again, more power to you, my friend.
Automation = Self-sustainability on mega-steroids. Build whatever you want, when you want. Springboard for space colonization en masse.

Also, terraforming specific regions of an already habitable planet is a bit of a risky process, as you've already got delicate established ecosystems that aren't going to take kindly if all of a sudden it's raining there half of all the days in the year, and so on. Whereas something like Mars, you can smack an asteroid into it to heat it up devastating most of the planet and it doesn't really matter, as no REAL damage was done, and you've gotten closer to what you wanted anyway.

Industrial civilization is over, and with it is the consumption of natural resources into a system where manufacturing is subtractive and recycling doesn't exist. These coming decades are just the aftershock, or, alternatively, the beforeshock to the post-Industrial, assembler-based economy.

>>3911578
What would the first stages of a Mars-colonization be? And how would we provide the necessary water, not to talk about the transportation of it?

>>3911581

The water is on Mars and can be extracted by heating the soil or by just drilling out the ice from surface glaciers.

>>3911580

The era of 'billions of people' is also over. When every village can have technology and thus a living standard compared to today's Industrial societies, or even better, people won't have as many children. All countries, once developed, experience a sharp drop-off in their birth rates.

We'll make some more. An oxygen atom there, and couple hydrogen atoms here, and bam! water.

And when all the world is overcharged with inhabitants, then the last remedy of all is war, which provideth for every man, by victory or death.

Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan Ch. XXX, S. 19

1. They die.
2. They go to space.

My 5 cents.
Growth will stop. The population will stop increasing and the country's that have their entire world view based on Growth or Fail like America will have their standard of living fall to same level as the rest of the world.

>>3911581
Entire continent-sized regions of Mars are 60% water ice by mass. That is not a problem. The Martian icecaps? Still over 95% water ice even when at aphelion when the atmosphere freezes out onto them.
How I'd see it happening:
2029: Combining the efforts, technical expertise and funds of SpaceX, Tharsis Aerospace, ESA and CNSA, a team of 60 astronauts journey to the red planet.
2036: Due to automation causing an upheavel in how we do things greater than even the Industrial Revolution, massive rotating space colonies depart for Mars.
2037: Newfag Martians complain of dust getting into everything, and they'd like to see some rain.
One month later: Terraforming of Mars is announced.

First, you want more heat. As there'd be settlements on the ground already, smacking Phobos into it is out of the question. Sorry guys. Orbital mirrors/statites could be manufactured through an automated plant on an asteroid, likely Phobos. More heat onto the poles, and other permafrost-rich areas.
This should start massive outgassing of CO2 through many regions in and around the polar caps, as the soil gradually warms. The outgassing should at least hold 100 millibars of CO2. If it does hold that little, I suggest also using a similar technique on Venus by manufacturing a planetary-encompassing, semi-transparent mirror. Freeze the atmosphere out, then deposit replicating automatons to launch the thick piles of dry ice onto a collision course with Mars. I'm sure something could be worked out.

But really, Mars only needs a bit more heat. A bit more heat means a bit more atmosphere, which means more heat retention, which means more atmosphere, which means shallow equatorial seas. And once you're there, you've pretty much got a habitable planet except for oxygen masks and warm clothing. But you can keep extending the process for more atmosphere, more oceans (from comets if Martian ice isn't as plentiful as some estimates suggest) and nitrogen importation from Titan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logistic_function

>>3911506
God damnit Inurdaes, it's "A still more glorious dawn awaits." Every time you say it wrong I cringe.

>>3911711
Should've told me earlier man, I hate fucking up quotes.

>>3911488
I'm sure the wealthy will give us some of their gold to eat.

>>3911539
I choose both.

>>3911711
The word is 'dammit'.
Every time you spell it wrong I cringe.

"Out there is a new world! Out there is our victory! Out there...is our destiny."

>>3911738
the word is 'dab gummit.' Everytime I hear you pronounce it wrong I cringe.

Resources won't run out thousands, if not for millions of years.

>>3911630
Doesn't mars need something that provides the same benefits of earth's massive iron core? Isn't one of the benefits of that core a stable atmosphere?

>>3911753
I know there's a far more detailed version of this picture lying around, can't find it. But anyway OP, the problem isn't stockpiles of resources, it's the recycling.

>>3911758
- Mars doesn't require a magnetic field to protect us from cosmic rays and so on, as the scale height of Mars' atmosphere is about 2.5 times higher than Earth's, due to the 0.376 Gs squishing the atmosphere less. That is an adequate protective blanket.

- As for solar wind erosion, it doesn't start becoming a problem until AT THE VERY LEAST 50,000 years down the line. Now, if we can do shit like build mirrors large enough to reflect a meaningful amount of sunlight at Mars, I would say it's quite possible to generate a artificial planetary magnetic field either through photovoltaic rings orbiting the planet or some other method not yet devised. So basically, not that big a problem.

I'm more worried about the lack of volcanism and plate tectonics.

We go to space, we enslave the aliens and steal their technology. Why? Because we are human, evil sadistic monsters that exploit every situation for their own advantage and advancement.

>>3911780
Whether or not you are Mr. Violent Simian, I dislike your attitude.

>>3911796
>implying suffering and violence aren't our strongest motivators

I'm not saying we should default to violence, but we shouldn't be sheep either.

>>3911806
As technology and intelligence will likely be way out of line with us, either we will pose absolutely no thread to any advanced aliens we encounter, or we'll have to leave the only planet with semi-sentient life on it because Colonel Coffee had snoo-snoo with the High Priestess of the Kzinti and now they're mad at us. Space is wide, and by the time we find others, we'll have changed.

>>3911796
It's got nothing to do with me bro, these are facts. Humans have adapted rules of nature on our fictional creation called civilization. It's survival of the fittest, but in civilization you destroy everything that can pose a treat even in your distant future. You advance and adapt and grow in power.
Even if people yell: "Leave aliens alone!" Confederation of Earth will study them in secret, abduct them, dissect them, steal their technology and always be ready if perhaps sometimes they attack. It's the nature of man, in my opinion, to be the ruling force and to take down anything that is above him until he is the one soaring the skies.

>>3911817

:3

>>3911539
this guy is right. our planet will shift from the sun's safe zone just like Venus did. So either we burn to death or we get the fuck out.
I'm hoping bu the time we get the fuck out of Earth, we would have learned how to manage wisely our ressources.

Also, Water will be soon considered the Blue gold (if it isn't already), the human population will shift to a vegan diet or life expectancy and our biotope will drastically perish. We are on the verge already. I hope I see this change in my lifetime.

>>3911884
>Water will be soon considered the Blue gold
Astonishing, 70% of the planet covered in blue liquid gold and can be purified via a homemade solar distiller quite easily. Don't be quite so dramatic.

>I hope I see this change in my lifetime.
...You hope to live a lesser lifestyle?

>>3911906
>Water will be soon considered the Blue gold
Astonishing, 70% of the planet covered in blue liquid gold and can be purified via a homemade solar distiller quite easily. Don't be quite so dramatic.
yeah explain this to Africa, and to the middle east where they cant drink their tap water, and USA where they get their water and energy from Canada (who makes electricity from using water as well).
you underestimate the use of water and the impact of rivers.

Lesser lifestyle you say? have you any idea how much our processed food and chemical flavors have impact on our health and evolution as humans? Cancer, heart attacks, blood clots, viral infection are all considered NATURAL diseases... Really?
Get the fuck out of here.

Using atomically-precise manufacturing, you can cheaply and efficiently produce nanotubes: Grids of these can be used to cheaply distill and desalinize water, using power taken from, say, a nanotube solar panel.

Pic related, the process of synthesizing atomically-precise (n, 0) nanotubes, where n = 6,8,10,12,18

>>3911923
>have you any idea how much our processed food and chemical flavors have impact on our health and evolution as humans?
I have an inkling, they fucking suck, ban that shit.

Also, LFTRs. Economical desalinization of water.
Lab-grown meat will continue to have advances and breakthroughs, meaning we likely won't have to go full vegan.

Just because some things in this world have been working all fucked up doesn't mean we need to scrap it and start living like survivalists. We devise and engineer around these problems for a better tomorrow.

>Lab-grown meat will continue to have advances and breakthroughs, meaning we likely won't have to go full vegan.

lab grown meat is vegan... have you ever heard of meat substitutes? look it out, they even make buffalo wings made out of soy beans.
it is still processed though. but whatever just wanted to point that out.


>Just because some things in this world have been working all fucked up doesn't mean we need to scrap it and start living like survivalists. We devise and engineer around these problems for a better tomorrow.
Who said anything about living as survivalist. I just think we have a lot of adjustments to do. Drastic ones that people might not accept or be able to wrap their minds around. But hopefully marketing companies will do their jobs as always...

Do the posters that keep saying that peak oil will reduce mankind to a bunch of squabbling barbarians living in poop houses have a point or are there other fuel sources that can replace non-renewables without plunging the entire planet into the dark age of entropy?

>>3911771

why are you worried?

>>3911963
Err, while the soy stuff is great, I rather meant that they have a culture of muscle cells and then grow the stuff in vats, having the cells just replicate and replicate so you're left with a tub full of meat but no animal slaughter as there's no nervous system or anything besides very tender meat.

>I just think we have a lot of adjustments to do.
Well I definitely agree with you there, we just have slightly differing views on how it'll pan out. But I respect your viewpoint.

I wish I could make a new thread for my inquiry, but I can't because I'm on an iFag. This seems like the best place for this question though.

If we were to move to another planet, all other variable considered and accounted for, would we still be able to reproduce? A female's fertility cycle is somehow linked to a lunar cycle. How?

>>3911992
If Mars only has its high volcanoes due to eruptions long gone, if we introduce rain into the whole erosion process as well as thicker, more forceful wind then after a period of time all the good minerals required for sustaining life will eventually end up in Hellas Basin or the deep Northern ocean. We can't have spill-mountains like in Larry Niven's Ringworld, so the only way I can think of combating this is by maneuvering either Europa, Callisto or Ceres into orbit around Mars in the far future, so the gravity can start tugging and perhaps restore some volcanism. Also, eventually the landscape would be very flat, with shallower oceans but low-lying plains comprising 95% of the land.

>>3912003
>A female's fertility cycle is somehow linked to a lunar cycle.
The fuck, really? I want a source.

>>3912003
I think by the time we move out to a new planet, we would have already found a cure to control the fertility cycle.
on a side note: what this guy said:
>>3912008: SAUCE PLEASE

that being said, 50% of the female population have already fertility issues. PCOS is rising on high speed. Breast cancer, cystic ovaries, and hormones instability are a great problem in today's infants and teenager.
they have no cure for it but birth control pills who dont make you fertile and on the long term make you infertile by themselves.
PCOS have been linked to genetics predisposition and toxins we face everyday. shit, it has even been linked to BPA.

>>3911996
well i hope they find how to make that type of meat. sounds great and is vegan as well. And by the time they create this, I hope humanity learns to eat like a true omnivore.

Either ways, I hope to witness this change. As a biology student, I'd like to be a part of the solution.

>>3912008
http://www.athenainstitute.com/lunarmpl.html

Also: Females bleed out once a month.
A reminder that a month is a lunar cycle.

>>3912025
A lot of those diseases are also linked to obesity.
Being obese decreases fertility.

>>3911996

>We begin manipulating Lab-Grown meat to make it healthier whilst keeping the same taste meat has
>Hamburguers and bacon now healthy as fuck
>Vegetarians can't complain that they kill animals too
>Mfw

>>3912036
this is true. Obesity has a direct relation with hormonal imbalance (one causes the other and vis versa, it's not a one way relation) as well as odd testerone levels.

>>3912043
Well, now I know what I'll be investing in/starting a business in if I get the chance.

>>3911771
>Mars doesn't require a magnetic field to protect us from cosmic rays and so on, as the scale height of Mars' atmosphere is about 2.5 times higher than Earth's, due to the 0.376 Gs squishing the atmosphere less. That is an adequate protective blanket.
This is some goddamn bullshit and you know it.
Absorption of light is a pure function of how many atoms the photon meets on its way. A less dense but higher atmosphere is exactly as good as absorbing light as a more dense but short atmosphere. It's only a question of how much mass of atmosphere per surface area, and i doubt we can easily get Mars to Earth levels.

>>3912064
Well, Mars receives 47% of the sunlight Earth does, so there's that. With reflected, it might come up to 60%. But my point is no one is going to sustain life-threatening sunburn for going out without a radiation suit for an hour. I'd be happy if you'd work out how much radiation Mars at sea level would experience in comparison to Earth if it has a 600 millibar-thick atmosphere.

>>3911996
oh god I'm going to fucking vomit

>>3912071
>if it has a 600 millibar-thick atmosphere.
0.6*9.8/3.7=1.58
But you're aware that that atmosphere is actually "more" atmosphere than earth has, right?
I wonder were all that shit should come from.

>>3912058
You mean when you're not posting tripe on /sci/?

I'll believe that when I never see you again.

>>3912084
>eat remains of once-living animals
>EWWW MEAT GROWN IN A STERILE LAB SETTING HOW GROSS

>>3912102
Well I've already suggested WHY DON'T WE TAKE VENUS' ATMOSPHERE, AND PUSH IT SOMEWHERE ELSE?

ITT: Misanthropes with no evidence.

When peak oil hits, if it hasn't already, the price will steadily increase despite all best efforts. This will create market and government pressure to implement alternatives to close the gap. We won't wake up one morning and not have oil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil

Most of the metal we use that isn't recycled gets dumped into convenient piles called landfills. We can mine it again from these landfills. At that point it'll become even more economical to recycle metals. We literally can't run out of metal, it doesn't go anywhere.
http://www.recyclingtoday.com/Article.aspx?article_id=18127

Space is not an issue. The trend of urbanization means people are abandoning rural areas to move to cities. Essentially as an economy gets more advanced we get more efficient at packing ourselves into cities.
http://www.unfpa.org/pds/urbanization.htm

We don't even need to colonize harsh areas, there are plenty of pleasant climates to live that are uninhabited simply because we don't have enough people to live there. Alaska and Wyoming come to mind. We'll colonize Wyoming before going to Mars.

This planet has sustained life for billions of years. It does it by being a closed system. If we can augment and become a part of the closed system we will be fine. At the moment we don't live sustainably. At the moment we haven't hit the limits of sustainability so there's not much incentive for governments and markets to adapt. But, when we do hit these limits there is no evidence that it will happen so suddenly we won't be able to adapt.

>>3912212
>We'll colonize Wyoming before going to Mars.
Mars is more interesting than Wyoming. It also has a better name. Since when did little kids wave American flags and dream of living in Wyoming?

>>3911923
A lot of them do. There are massive quanitites of water hidden under africa. How do you think Chad, Egypt and all those Saharan countries are doing so well, while places with actual trees are dehydrated and dying?

>>3912236
Once Mars becomes useful it will open up a whole new distant planet for megalomaniacs, despots or greedy corporations wanting to set up shop there.

>>3912260
Sounds good to me.

I'm more worried about the level of government intrusion we will have to have in the near future and the incompetence of the government to handle it.