/sci/ - Science & Math

>>3846504
why would you want be a starving artist OP?

Art is for those who have tendency toward same sex relation, i.e. homosexuality.

I was just in your predicament earlier this year. Art is a useless career full of obnoxious bitches. Science and math is the way to go, my friend.

>>3846509

>implying that it doesn't also apply to engineers

>>3846509

I lol'd

>>3846504

OP you need to answer this question. In fact, we all need to answer this question. The question is this:

Why do you decide to keep living?

Find the answer to this question. Once you know the answer to this question, no matter how long it takes, you will know the answer to Your question.

Because science/math/engineering takes far more creativity than "art" where taking a shit on canvas is considered a modern masterpiece.

>>3846504
arts and science are one in the same it takes a creative person to find something new i suggest finding a science your actually interested in then using you artistic skills to create something new you may change the world someday

>>3846504
If not art, then which one out of the three (math, engineering, or a science)

and I know that biology is not a science

>starving artist

Depends on the art. And actually not sucking is half the battle.

A major in VFX, for example, would be an MA, and if you're good, creative, and good with networking, you'll be fine.

These brofags hear "arts" and think "garage band".

You can still art REALLY WELL on your own, while science-ing REALLY WELL on your own is going to be a hell of a lot more difficult. Additionally, if you are artistically inclined, you can bring that insight to the table when modeling and describing phenomena.
It is a misconception that art cannot into science.

>>3846509

>>3846504
How about architecture op? You get make cool buildings and stuff

There is nothing wrong with art. Hell my wife makes A LOT more money selling her photos than I do as an engineer, but she is kind of unique. Most people don't do that well in art. Not everyone goes to NYU and RISD for their art degrees, and even amongst those that do only a few get put up in big galleries like she does.

>>3846533
no thanks I heard the apprenticeships are painful. What are the differences between math, science, and engineering realistically, I've heard so many things from different, it hard to know which one is good

>>3846533
"A brick wants to be something."

Youtube that quote OP, there's a scene from a movie around that, pretty inspiring on the subject of architecture.

>gay poor starving faggot homosexual cockdestroyer
go with art

>gay RICH faggot homosexual buttdeviant
go engineering

>>3846529
This is a big load of shit. Good artists that didn't go to school for art are just as rare as genius mathematicians with no formal education.

>>3846589
then where do mathfags and sciencefags fit in this?

>>3846603
>PhD in mathematics
>300k starting
>Any job you want

what do you guys think the future of computer science will be like

>>3846593
I never said you could art like Michaelangelo. I said you could art really well. Seriously, art is fairly subjective. Whether someone chooses to purchase a piece depends largely on how that piece is going to make them feel, what it makes them think of, and what preferences the person has that the piece appeals to. You can still be an artist and produce wonderful, beautiful artwork without a formal art education, and still have people who want to buy it. Again, without a formal art education. Without a formal science education, you're not going to get a science job. The end.
I love writing fiction. Many teachers have suggested I have something of a gift for it. But I sure as hell wasn't going to pay money going to a university for english. I went for something that you can't really do outside of more formal schooling on your own. And that's really what I am suggesting to OP.
What are you going to do with an art degree? Find me one career, outside of teaching art, that requires an art degree. Please do.

Also, just because you major in one thing doesn't preclude you from taking classes in another.

go for pharmacy
90k starting guaranteed
jobs contact you, you dont even need to look for jobs
nice cushy job that nobody can hate
amazing future outlook

u mad engineers?

if you're looking for a career, i'd say try art, and have math/sci/engineering as a backup option.

but if you're choosing a major... don't go for fucking art dude, that's retarded. you might as well not even go to school- you'll save yourself from blowing a shitload of money and you'll have a four-year head start in building your resume/portfolio.

i had a friend who majored in chinese, and he was hardcore into all that "study what your passion is" bullshit... and after 2 years on the job market, working shitty jobs with lots of hours, bitchy coworkers, and low pay, he finally said fuck it and went back to school to get another bachelors, this time in compsci. now he's making 80k a week, he hardly has to deal with his coworkers, and half the time he doesn't even have to go into the office: he can just "work from home" (which basically means he can sit around and jerk off- his company doesn't give a hist as long as his work is getting done)

art, english, language, sociology, they're all a fucking waste of time

>>3846674
nah, i don't want to work at fucking CVS, i got enough of that shit when i was a teenager

obviously /sci/ will tell you to become an artist.
(by the way, mathematics is a creative art)

>>3846701
derp, i meant 80k a year, not a week :P

OP here, art seems like much more of a gamble compared to science, math, or engineering. I am confident in my art abilities, but I am not sure how the pretentious art types will view my work in the real world.

>>3846651
>knows nothing about the art world
>still is convinced you can be a successful artist without an education

Seriously, name even one successful contemporary artist without a formal education that is not a novelist (for some reason writing is an exception).

My twin brother is going to art school, OP, and he fucking hates it, it's making him dislike art. I'd keep art as something personal.. I'm not going to school for music performance because I'm pretty fucking tired of being told how to play.

>implying that's the only reason I'm studying Chem

Still though.

>>3846749
>No, I asked you first.

Dude, I can't even name ANY contemporary artist.

>>3846651
If you seriously think that art is purely subjective, you are a moron. There is near universal agreement about the beauty of certain pieces of art for a reason. Sure people have different tastes, but if you don't know the basic principles of color theory you are going to fail hard at painting. We might not all agree on what good music is, but if you don't know how to make a cord you can't make music. There is something objective there, and most people go to school to learn it.

If this is a choice for you, pick the fucking art. There's no place in science for you.

>>3846761
Thanks for proving my point. Now go walk your ass down to a gallery before you open your mouth to talk about art again.

>>3846731
what would you want to do with an art degree? work for some ad company, sketching up pictures of their shitty product? that sounds like it would suck fucking balls. would you want to work for yourself, and sell your art? you don't need a degree for that

except for a few jobs, which are competitive, most employers will look at your art degree and think you just dicked around for four years painting pretty pictures

go to school for a real major, and build your portfolio in your spare time. get to know the art teachers and see if you can sit-in on their classes. if you've got a kick-ass portfolio, you should still be able to get work if you don't have an art degree (hell they'll probably be impressed that you have a real degree), and should you decide that getting an art-based career is more hassle than it's worth, you'll have the credentials to fall back on to a career where you'll be in high demand and the pay is good

>>3846776
taking classes in it to learn it is fine, but majoring in art is laughably stupid. you might as well major in basket weaving. or better yet, go to the bank, take out a loan for 80 grand, and then burn the money

The best artists and the best scientists are usually driven in the same way. (A metric ton of coffee and neurosis.)

As for job stuff, science is a better bet, just because of it's utility. People can skip on art, but not penicilin.

I don't know about soul searching. The easiest thing is just to look at what you're good at, not what you love. Do that. It's like getting an arranged marriage to a wealthy underwear model. Sure, it starts out meh, but then you see her in her underwear on a pile of money.

Then it's okay!

>>3846794
Ug, so many people here know nothing about art. Do you have any idea how hard it is to make money selling art outside of a galley setting? Most artists get their foot in the door through their school putting up their work in galleries. The connections you make in school are essential, and so are the skills. Why do you dumb fucks think that being a successful artist is any different from being successful in any other field?

>>3846791
>getting mad at someone for not knowing things.
Don't be a dick, bro.

>>3846776
Certainly some art classes in basic objective art concepts are going to be useful. But any of the course work requirements offered at my university suggest that you have 40credits or fewer in actual art basics, while the rest of your credits come from gen eds and studio credits (which I am guessing is where you apply these principles you have learned to actually make some art). Regardless the general objective things about art aren't going to be any different whether you're going to a community college or a 4 year university, and if the rest of the time is just practice, why go to a 4 year university for a 4 year degree instead of taking the basic classes while doing something else that is going to give you a better guarantee of a steady job?

Basically, what I am trying to say is what >>3846794
has already said
>go to school for a real major, and build your portfolio in your spare time. get to know the art teachers and see if you can sit-in on their classes. if you've got a kick-ass portfolio, you should still be able to get work if you don't have an art degree (hell they'll probably be impressed that you have a real degree), and should you decide that getting an art-based career is more hassle than it's worth, you'll have the credentials to fall back on to a career where you'll be in high demand and the pay is good

>>3846521
biology is not a science now... fag

>>3846837
>Why do you dumb fucks think that being a successful artist is any different from being successful in any other field?
Because most people aren't inherently involved in art and the art world and have no real experience about it outside of how it is portrayed in different forms of media. Maybe we've got some misconceptions. Maybe you can stop calling us "fucking retarded" and try to help us understand how to fix the misconceptions.

>>3846837
maybe because it is? i know a few artists, and they didn't go to school. they live paycheck to paycheck, sometimes having to storm out some dry-spells. and they love it. but if they went to school and had student debts to pay, they'd be fucked

getting an art degree is the worst of both worlds- you get the wasted time and debt of college, and the credentials of someone who didn't go to college (an art major is worthless). studying art would be great, even minoring in it might help if you want to get work as an artist, but majoring in it would be a major mistake (pun intended, yuk yuk yuk)

>>3846785
This... go away op

>>3846794
You can't become an good artist in your spare time any more than you can become a great physicist in your spare time.

>>3846844
You have to learn to make art in the same way you learn math, by learning theory at the same time that you practice solving problems. That is what you do in studio classes, you are taught advanced theory and technique at the same time that you make art. It is not different than training in any other field.

>>3846920
maybe. i only took art 101, so what the hell do i know. but that doesn't change the fact that a DEGREE in art is virtually worthless. you're building good arguments for taking art courses while in school, but majoring in it would be a dumb fucking move

out of curiosity, are you an art major?

do whatever makes you happy

>>3846941
Nope, I work in the oil industry. My wife has her art degree though (RISD undergrad, NYU grad) and she makes so much fucking money. I am thinking about retiring and moving to New York with her. I am tired of Oklahoma, and she is making more than enough for us not to worry about it.

interesting, what's she do that she's making that much? also, how old is she? that's awesome that she's doing so well, but do you really think it'd be a good idea to enter todays job market as a kid fresh out of college with an art degree?

If you need to be "Convinced" to take a Sci degree I don't think there's much of a choice. Take Art.

Remember though, Art and Drama are "Fine Arts" but Music is a "Discipline." What subject of fine art are you thinking of OP?

Also remember there are the two "lines" in Fine Arts. The first line is what separates people with zero ability from those who have some ability. If you can't get past that line then don't do an art, you'll never succeed in the slightest. The second line is the virtuoso line. If you're past this line you wouldn't be asking this question, rather you'd be practicing Rachmaninoff Concertos or Liszt's Transcendental Etudes

I was in the same boat you're in a 2 years ago OP.

I couldn't decide between studio art and a typical cookie-cutter engineering program. I crammed as many art classes as I could with my science courses to not fall too far behind with either major as I made my decision, and ultimately chose ChemE.

It's a very hard choice and I don't think anyone can really help you with it...it took me many, many hours of hard thinking over a couple of semesters to decide. What swayed my decision is how prevalent computers are in art. I knew that no matter what I did, I would be forced to use computers for illustration or manipulating designs. I'm an old-school mentality art person and absolutely hate computer work, so I knew that unless I built extremely good networking in school, non-computerized mediums would be limited to me making <$10K a year.

>>3846988
She is a lighting specialist at a fashion photography company, but yeah, unless you are went to a really good school you aren't going to make shit. That is true of a lot of fields, though.

>>3847000

Adding on to this: If you're confident in your ability and know you will be able to adapt very quickly to freelancing requests than you should be able to make it as an artist. I think the work hours are about the same if you're actually pushing and challenging yourself through art school, compared to an average science major. If you can't practice at a very minimum 6 concentrated hours a day out of studio time then go science.

Do whatever you enjoy more, OP.

sup toast

Fine arts degree isn't worth SHIT. Science/math/engineering degree is. The end.

/thread

People who enjoy art DO NOT NEED A DEGREE IN ART. JUST MAKE SOME ART.
And that shit better be creative or so help me I'll...

>>3847089

>herp derp life is about money

>>3847115

Correct. Money is a major constituent, however. You can preach all you want about how life shouldn't be about money and material success, but the fact is that quality of life depends heavily on money and career success. Deal with it.

if your going to pursue art and music do it on your own time. don't try to make a "career" out of it. do it for yourself and the people you know. trying to be an art major is either like being a history major or getting a degree in "love-ology." all the knowledge you will gain and all the skills you will develop in creating beauty are not something that you can adequately represent on a framed piece of paper.

Do it as a hobby and do it passionately, if you are passionate about art. Work hard for a career that has much more likely benefit for yourself and for society.

Do what you enjoy. Unless you're planning to go to graduate school, you're not likely to get a job in the sciences. The jobs for those with undergraduate degrees do exist, but they are generally very competitive, especially in a down market. If you go engineering, you're more likely to get a job more easily, but even that is starting to feel pressures from the market.

With an art degree, you're almost certainly going to be working outside the field you studied. However, as I was hinting at earlier, for right now it looks like that may be the case with any degree, so it would probably be fair to say you should do what you like better.

>>3847165

I agree.

I think art academia is designed in a way to intentionally make it difficult just so that the professors and students can refer to something they have accomplished. I have a friend who has two masters degrees in art, she basically feels the same way. Its useless, and isnt going to help you. Likewise everyone in the music department where I go to school is in a rat race of competition. Trying desperately to get good at something they dont love at all, just so that they can impress a professor who likewise doesnt love.

Im really into music though. I have access to all the resources music students do, the only difference is they might have the keys to a room I just have to sneak into.

>>3847182
That said, having been on both sides of that (I was a music major for two years before switiching to Chemistry and I have a minor in English), I will say that the science courses are a hell of a lot more stimulating (in the sense that they require more growth in reasoning ability) than most arts classes. I took a 300 level british lit class my freshman year, and I didn't have to put even a quarter of the effort in that was required for ochem or diff eq. They forced me to actually grow as a person and my courses have made me far more aware of how little I truly know than the arts courses I could ace without even trying. There's just so much LESS to know about any artistic discipline (though certainly there is quite a lot to know) than there is to know about any discipline of science. If I spend my life researching, I can only ever hope to get a moderate understanding of a VERY specific issue within inorganic chemistry. Which is to say nothing of learning a significant amount about physical or organic chemistry. Or about physics or biology or any other related field. I don't know why exactly, but I find that unbelievable ignorance to be very comforting and thrilling. Which is weird because I was always an arrogant know-it-all as a kid.

>>3846504
Study within science and engineering will lead to you to a deeper understanding of the world around you, a much greater affinity for problem solving, a good amount of intellectual challenge and a qualification. It will also improve your employability in a wide range of fields as you have shown some dedication and intelligence, and employers are more safe expecting you to be a capable problem solver.

Study in fine arts will teach you a lot of uninteresting things about an otherwise fairly interesting thing, while perhaps improving your ability to do that thing. It will cripple your employability as it shows a lack of foresight, as (to the employer) only those with poor foresight would study something which cripples their employability (yes, this is a self fulfilling prophecy). Studying fine arts will lock you into a life of financial hardship.

Aside from this you need to consider what you feel you would find more enjoyable and more fulfilling, there are no 'wrong' choices when picking what to study, only ones which are better or worse for different goals. If you can't decide between them pick science so that you might do some good for others.

>>3847228

I think you're wrong about why arts majors have troubles with employment. It's not because employers see them as having bad judgement, it's because they see them as unskilled in that environment. Musicians (real musicians, not those douchebags with guitars on the quad), for example, actually have to put hours upon hours of practice in if they want to actually be good. Granted, most music majors at your local university are more mediocre, but that's no less true of business majors or econ majors or whatever 'employable' major you can name. Employers know this, and it's why they'll generally weigh work experience more heavily than what you actually studied, and whether or not you graduated/ how well you did (for your first couple jobs out of school) more than whether or not you studied the 'right' thing.

I believe you should do ALL OF THEM because thats what i would do.

If you want to get laid A LOT and probably get money in the future: Go to the arts.

If you want to have a relatively safe career and probably get laid once or twice: Go to the sciences.

Simple as that, fucking aspies. Do what you like, it doesn't matter in the end. Everyone dies

>>3846504
>Convince me why I should take the science/math/engineering path
do you like having a job?

Yes: take the science/math/engineering path
No: Take the art degree

I can tell most of the people here think the only art career is being a fine artist selling your shit on the street. Learn about what jobs you can get in the video game/entertainment industry. there are a ton. yes it's competitive and can pay shitty at first, but if you really like what you're doing that won't matter and you'll eventually rise to the top.

DO WHATEVER MAKES YOU HAPPY


TRUST ME

>>3847317

any job your art degree can get you, a science degree will get you easier.

fine arts is something you develop on your own, it doesn't take instruction, labs, or huge equipment, or insane concepts that requires explanations...

you just do fine arts because you like it, writing, drawing, whatever...

maybe do a science degree that compliments your art desires.

combine the two, science major art minor.

done

>>3846504

Arts is highly subjective. It's not something you learn at a formal institution. It's something you can easily learn and SHOULD learn by yourself. Those art degrees are a scam.

>>3847332

>fine arts is something you develop on your own, it doesn't take instruction, labs, or huge equipment, or insane concepts that requires explanations...

Yes you can learn art on your own, but it still takes instruction), studios, equipment and insane concepts, (color theory, anatomy, perspective. I've been learning these for years and I'm still just scratching the surface.) If you really want to get good at art, you cant just do it on the side. you need a shit ton of practice. sure you can keep drawing and get better, but that will take forever unless you have some guidance.

Think of it this way. you can keep doing math and science on your own and eventually get better, but once you have guidance and access to materials, it makes it a whole lot easier.

>>3847332
you are an idiot
practice and study are essential to being good at anything whether it be art, a sport or science, and having advanced instructors helping perfect ones technical skills not to mention the thousands of hours commitment that studying art involves make a huge difference in what one can achieve artistically
not that most of them arent a bunch of fucking bums who will never make anything artistic with any value
but its almost impossible to really study art thoroughly enough to master it and at the same time adequately study science

>>3847373

>study
>art

are you a fucking idiot?

>>3847383
are you?
there is plenty of purpose to studying art. just the same with literature

>>3847386

>studying

>>3847373

how many fucken rock stars got an MA in music?

1?

how many writers were Phds in English?

2?

gtfo...true artists don't need instruction, they are self-taught

if you are lazy and need to be guided you will never be great, you might get decent...but thats about it

you can't compare engineering to art

you actually need equipment to do engineering properly and learn it, all you need to do art is a guitar, a pen, or a paint brush

gtfo

and dont bother talking about animators, the best were always 95% self taught, the 5% extra they learned on the job from their buddies

you can learn color theory on your own you lazy shit, nothing to it...practice and read up, it's not rocket science, you dont need guidance unless you're autistic

>>3847433
>>3847433
agreed 100%
art school is for idiots and cogs.

>>3847440
>>3847433

I'm going to an art school right now and I've learned more in the first month than I have all of last year teaching myself. Though you don't need a degree to be successful in art, you do need motivation and guidance.

3/10 you made me reply.

>>3847433
you are fucking retarded
like, how you could seriously hold so childish a view as that art is magically somehow different from all other pursuits and some people just naturally pick up a brush and paint Starry Night or pick up a guitar and play metal, is beyond me
youve clearly never done anything artistic in your life to be able to believe that
i never said the word engineering, i never compared engineering to anything
but for you to seriously believe that it works that way, wow

yes art is not the same as science

>>3847478

name successful scientists with no Masters/Phd.

I"ll name some artists without any degrees.

Who will name more? Im betting I will. by 1000%