/sci/ - Science & Math

>>3839661
>retarded docu

Well its true.

>>3839681

how so?

Americans have to pay to go to college? Seriously, what the fuck kind of third world shit is that?

>I don't care if you have a degree or not, I will hire you
>HURR DURR I AM AUTODIDACT AND KNOW NEUROSURGERY

wow the american system sucks

>>3839716
while it is true and i am glad my country offers free tuition for initial degree courses, i get the feeling from observing american culture that scholarships and grants are much more common than the uk

>click link
>2.25 million views
>it's about why college is a scam
Closed right there

I don't even have to watch it to know it's referring only to shit tier majors like humanities and not god tier STEM fields which can't even legally employ non-degree holders

high school prepares you for college
college prepares you for job


Eh yeaah no. this system doesn't work. Studies have shown if you make *education* itself the ultimate goal, other more practical endeavours will fall into place.

It's a great flick. However, it just demonizes College. Which is wrong. It should make people question the method not the idea. Going to college and getting a degree in law or Gender Studies, Art History etc is a waste of time and money.

But becoming a doctor, a dentist, some engineers like chemical engineering is still worth it.

>>3839759
That's only because only the truly smart / Highest IQ holders pursue pure education, which is typically mathematicians or physicists.

Lol these docus remind me o book burning.

>>3839758
So if sci only appreciates science technology engineering and mathematics, what does sci feel about architects, planners, urban designers and policy analysts?

>>3839762
>getting a law degree is a waste of time and money
>getting a medical degree is super worth it

Wat?

>>3839765
yes the docu is anti-intellectual faggotry, much like the american system it criticises..

>>3839766
get the fuck out. sci hates engineeringfaggots

only pure math and physics need apply.

>>3839766
>what does sci feel about architects, planners, urban designers and policy analysts?

you're wasting your time and money, going to school for that kind of thing.

>>3839775
noseriousdiscussionallowed

>>3839781
could you explain a bit more? these kind of things are just about the only job that will never be well and truly complete. They are highly sought after in governments, civil service and private enterprise

>>3839775

research scientist.

>>3839774
I've never understood why people disparage law degrees. Are they forgetting their president holds a degree in law?? lawyers are needed and make a lot of money, its just that the job market is saturated, but with all the necessary experience and well written cv and interview procedure, you shouldnt have much trouble getting a job

>>3839762
Agreed. These documentaries, and there are surely more to come, exploring the problems with higher education tend to make salient points throughout the film, and then they botch the conclusion. We need to tweak the system, not carelessly disregard education as a scam or ponzi scheme, unless you want someone from the khan academy removing brain tumors.

>>3839793
>Are they forgetting their president holds a degree in law??

lol, NO SHIT! Why do you think our country is a constant shit-fest? We leave policy making up to people who studied the art of argument.

I lolled hard because I only have to pay 300 euros a year for college.
The train for me to get there actually costs me more.
Hurray for socialized education. Like it should be.
Even poor kids deserve a chance at a better education. It shouldn't only be for middle class and up.

>>3839775

U jelly of us engineers?

>>3839802

remember Americans are afraid of collectivism because it will infringe on their selfishness

>>3839793
Law schools are a joke. They're filled with people from the liberal arts and the actual work they do is inherently predatory, save for the righteous few who actually protect people in the court.

>>3839801
Those people have a much better chance of making practical decisions than any rational scientific or technocratic method.

>>3839807
less money, less respect, dumber, more hours, more likely to be fired. cubicle worker typical corporate drone with no ability to move up or make anything on your own

nope. just pity

>>3839818
except china's government is largely scientists and engineers and they are makingmassive increases in their economy and scientific advantage.

if they were lawyers china wouldn't be half as powerful as it is.

>>3839818
[citation needed]

>>3839815

I don't know what kind of "engineers" you've been meeting, but over here they get jobs more easily and get paid more. Plus bonuses for being engineers.

>>3839821
I didn't say a technocratic approach can't be successful but do make it work you have to disregard much of what american value

ITT: Reasoning which ignores the fact that while you may not get the job you want in your chosen field just because you have a degree in said field you most certainly WON'T get it if you don't have one.
Assuming your chosen field isn't something like waitressing or hair dressing.

>>3839774
We need more primary care doctors. A lot more. We don't need anymore lawyers.

>>3839828

Same here. We currently lack engineers. There are advertisements on state TV for engineering courses. It's one of the most well paid jobs overhere atm.

>>3839815
Bro there is a fairly bad smell of denial coming off you. You should hit the sowers.

>>3839831
most americans are retards and i dont care what they value (mostly delusional religious beliefs and the lie that they TOO CAN BE A MILLIONAIRE!!)

also, "all men are created equal" is literally flying in the face of evolution.

>>3839828
>>3839839
Except you could hire a physicist or a Mathmatician for any of those jobs except they wouldn't take the pay cut.

>>3839839

because it's the main drive of our economy to create innovative things or of superior quality. More engineers = more economic growth.

>>3839834
what is universities do to curtail numbers of students entering different courses in any given year? they raise entry requirements but thats no use if everyone achieves high grades. do they then just limit the number of applicants? or advertise some courses over others with financial incentives? there need sto be collaboration between departments and between universities in decided and distributing courses. where I live we have about 3 universities all in the same city each churning out primary school teachers

Eurofag here, the standard 5-year college study is totally free for all daily students. U jelly rest of the world ?

>>3839839
>>3839828
Please post nation.

>>3839839

And "mathematicians" and all those crappy try hard graduates end up teaching brats in high school.

>>3839834
>we need more doctors to keep worthless old people alive
nope

>>3839847
No you couldn't, not without substantial retraining.

>>3839851
the organization that allows you to run a med school (can't remember the name) has a monopoly and its in their best interest to limit doctors, not because they care about quality (otherwise they wouldn't have affirmatiev action) but because they want to artificialy increase their salary by decreasing supply of doctors

the ideal way would you allow everyone with say, MCAT > 95% \ etc

>>3839849
old people have always had lots of money and they must be getting richer since not many of them now are retired from shitty manuel labour. also the poorer ones die faster anyway, so its in our economics interest to keep them alive

> physicist or a Mathematician
Simply put, no. There is more to engineering than calculations and if you son't know that you can't make any valuable contribution to this discussion.

to support
>>3839821

Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva the former president of brazil was a former manufacturer.

under his presidency the government had an economic boom

1. don't go to overpriced college
2. don't major in arts or some other bullshit
3. get scholarships, grants, work internships
4. PROFIT!

>mfw im about to graduate from a good school with a computer engineering degree with like 10k in the bank, no help from parents. also about to start grad school with full RA stipend

>>3839847
>making shit up

>>3839856
Yes you could, they're smarter then engineers. They work a level higher and would do better work.

Engineer = plug n chug formulas
Scientist = understands fundamental physics and is capable of invention

>>3839867
are people really this retarded?

>>3839847

Get a clue. I want to see a math graduate get a job in areas that don't work with math.

>>3839867
somebody who is good at maths with no engineering background will have absolutely no chance in an engineering profession. I mean they would be better than me, sure, but they wouldn't compete with other trained engineers. get a clue - do people still say that these days?

>>3839870
>I want to see a math graduate get a job in areas that don't work with math.
I want to see you name one relevant job in 2011 that DOESN'T involve math.

>>3839867
I would like to refer you to
>>3839862
Engineering is not all about numbers.

>>3839839
>>3839853

Belgium

Engineering is harder than science.[1]

^[1]http://www.metu.edu.tr/~baykan/arch467/Rittel%2BWebber%2BDilemmas.pdf

>>3839870
>PhD in Mathematics
>Financial Analyst
>300k starting

>>3839820

It's still a silly argument to make that a law degree is worthless, though. Law is complicated; more complicated than it needs to be. If someone were to bring up a bogus suit against me, or if I was falsely accused, I'd rather have someone represent me that has a law degree, has passed the bar, and has a decent rating by clients. So what if their major wasn't astrophysics? I would be paying them to know the law and use it to defend me. If I am paying someone to know the law, I want some proof that they know the law before we start settlement negotiations or get into court only to find out that they're incompetent.
Yes, lawyers tend to be assholes.
Yes, lawyers can be predatory.
But to argue that that makes being a lawyer a worthless occupation is just silly.

>>3839888
since when did Financial Analyst not work heavily with math?

>>3839880
If I had say, no Belgian and very poor German but was a native English speaker, could I still get a job?

>>3839891
>mfw

>>3839893
Why would you want a job that DOESNT use math? The ones that do are 300k starting

I don't think engineers have much to worry about. They have natural barriers to entry, so their pool, even in a globalized market, has always been fair. That being said, I wouldn't get to excited. As crappy as the average JD and MBA is, it's still a prerequisite for aspiring world leaders. For better or worse (probably worse, which is why you should strive to try a new approach).

>>3839896
Wouldn't you?
If someone brought up a bogus case against you, are you really going to go to the top physicist at your university and ask them to represent you in court?

>>3839899
Link to the source of this ridiculous meme. Or if by some chance it is true link to a job where somebody just out of college is paid 300k a year.

>>3839909
no because law doesn't involve math or science. Physicsts could easily have done law, with their superior IQ, but it was beneath them.

>>3839913

>>3839891
Sorry, I was picking on law schools and law students, the same way I pick on pre-meds, but you're right. The world will always need capable lawyers, and the ones who do it well, and with some grace, have my respect.

>>3839883

Whatever math is involved is taught to the engineering students and everything else related to the engineering area. Math degrees have math and only math. Good luck being an engineer, mathfag.

>>3839919
It is, though.

>>3839912
Let me just google that for you...
>first result
>http://www.simplyhired.com/a/jobs/list/q-300k+starting+salary
>all medical fields
>not a single engineer to be found

At any rate, this goes back at least a year.
http://4chanarchive.org/brchive/dspl_thread.php5?thread_id=1476433&x=Real+Lives

Here's what Know Your Meme has to say about it:
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/mathematics-phd
(Even less informative than the archived thread...)

>>3839894 belgian

there is no native language in belgium. they all speak dutch or french.

ITT: People willfully ignoring the difference between being able to learn engineering and being able to do engineering with a mathematics degree.

>>3839894

Possibly.

>>3839948
Meant to say Dutch, the information about my language skills should still have been sufficient for you to answer.

i enjoyed it till they trotted out the jew at the 3 minute mark.

Don't buy orthodox academia! Buy my academia!

I think we need to establish a results-blind investment tax and impose it on large corporations. Essentially, they need to put money into research institutions, but they can't bitch about ROI. Have you guys thought about stuff like this before, or better ways of investing in that crude, but powerful buzzword "innovation"?

>>3839979
But what happens if the money they put in ends up hurting their ability to compete? If company A and B are investing, and the research results in a new product that allows B to intrude on A's market, wouldn't A be essentially hanging itself?

>see this
wat

>>3839866
no this actually happens
I go to community college for free as of now (provably poor people go for free)
one of the nicest colleges around, and is classified as a "feeder school" for the university system
you get bunches of grants too for university if you get good grades.
far superior to direct from high school
i also torrent a large amount of my textbooks, or otherwise rent them from the library
shits all so easy

>>3839854
>mfw Eurofags constantly spout off about how everything is "free"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HWGihz0UGg&feature=related

>>3840096

>mfw Amerifags constantly spout off about how everything is "freedoms"

>whats your guys thoughts on biomedical engineering?

>>3840145
>biomedical engineering
>a sexual orientation

>>3839948
flemish?

>>3840154
Possibly. Hardly any Walloons know English well enough to post here;

>>3840130
>mfw I am considered about both those countries because they are nowhere near as good as the northern european countries

>mfw Eurofags talkin bout freedoms

>>3840154
flemish is to dutch how american english is to british english
(yes, I'm aware "british english" is not even one accent. neither is dutch)

>>3840189
lol at that filename.
His name is Varg Vikernes.

>>3840205

Weird but true. The form of Dutch spoken in most Belgian provinces is actually older then what is spoken in the Netherlands.

>>3839963
So the question was if you could get a job in belgium only knowing english?

Yes, especially if you have a willingness to learn dutch or french. Try with NATO or SHAPE.

>>3840226
ok, was not aware of that. But keep in mind that Flanders + current Netherlands were once one country, and were once multiple smaller countries. And much of the land in the Netherlands didn't exist because it's below sea level.