/sci/ - Science & Math

I got over that feeling a long time ago, brah. Man up. It's even worse than you realize. Colonies? WTF? Why would ANY government make the investment roughly a trillion dollars in size, just to get nothing back from it?

Manned spaceflight was just a Cold War relic. It was done for the purposes of national prestige (i.e. packs of violent simians trying to show other violent simians that they had bigger sticks). Since the violent simians have no need to shake de-fleshed thigh bones at each other anymore, then those relics will vanish, never to return.

At least you grew up in the 90's.
No amount of money can buy that.

>>3811691
>just to get nothing back from it?
You can't really be so stupid as to think there's nothing to be gained from space colonization.

And FUCK OFF with this "violent simian" bullshit already.
We're fucking sick of hearing your garbage.

No joke?

And I thought that I was one of the younger members of the board. (19)

>>3811668
Atleast high school girls will stay the same age.

It's a bit cruel that it took you and your friends and family, trillions of years to form and meet. It will only take ~100 years or less to lose them forever.

>>3811691
>implying we will ever grow out of the need to show our fellow simians how big our fucking sticks are

>>3811743

That went too deep man.

Most of us would be dead by 2050-60

http://futuretimeline.net/21stcentury/2050-2059.htm
>reading futuretimeline, derp

>>3811743
You could say that about anything.

>>3811743
>implying several things about continuity of self, as well as the finiteness of the universe's future.

>>3811704
> You can't really be so stupid as to think there's nothing to be gained from space colonization.

There's nothing to be gained TO A GOVERNMENT. The government already owns you. Letting you go out into a place where a minor change in delta-v will let you ESCAPE FROM THEIR TAXES FOREVER, is called a "loss" from the government viewpoint.

> And FUCK OFF with this "violent simian" bullshit already.

Nope.

> We're fucking sick of hearing your garbage.

Just as I'm fucking sick of hearing your delusional rejection of the realities of the end of Cheap Oil.

Get angry, asspipe. As if that fucking MATTERED.

>asspipe
i dont think ive actually heard that term used before...

http://www.hplusmagazine.com/articles/forever-young/manhattan-beach-project-end-aging-2029

http://www.ted.com/themes/might_you_live_a_great_deal_longer.html

http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/07/sierra-sciences-working-towards.html

http://www.sens.org/sens-research/research-themes

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3329065877451441972#

http://www.nature.com/news/2010/101128/full/news.2010.635.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/nov/28/scientists-reverse-ageing-mice-humans

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-06-biologists-yeast-cells-reverse-aging.html

http://www.sciencedebate.com/science-blog/researchers-show-they-can-reverse-stem-cell-aging-process

>>3811755
> > implying we will ever grow out of the need to show our fellow simians how big our fucking sticks are

I never implied that we will grow out of that. Evolution made us into hyper-competitive fuckers. A few thousand years of agriculture and a few hundred years of technology isn't going to change that.

>>3811878
Deluded as fuck. We will not have that kind of longer life span. Maybe the next generation, but not us.

>>3811878
> 9 links to stupid shit that only a retard would believe will happen

Look, asspipe, your fellow violent simians have made it impossible to find affordable HEALTH CARE in your throwback Western Civ. So how the FUCK are you planning on affording life extension techniques?

In addition, if life extension actually WORKED, then why are the billionaires still dying right on schedule? They live into their 80s and then DROP FUCKING DEAD. You'd think that a fucking BILLIONAIRE would be able to make use of techniques and then AFFORD TO PAY FOR THEM.

All I hear from you fuckers is DERP DERP DERP. You can't form a logical thought to save your fucking lives. And that's going to happen LITERALLY.

>>3811893
[citation needed]
AND I HAVE MORE CITATIONS THAN YOU

Now what the fuck is an asspipe, fucking neologism.

>>3811899
Holy shit shut the fuck up and go kill yourself, you stupid, violent, angry ape.

>>3811899
>Look, asspipe, your fellow violent simians have made it impossible to find affordable HEALTH CARE in your throwback Western Civ.

You see, I live in a first-world country called Australia where we have something called 'Medicare' which covers all Australian citizens. They can also choose a private healthcare option.

>So how the FUCK are you planning on affording life extension techniques?
...Very carefully.

>In addition, if life extension actually WORKED, then why are the billionaires still dying right on schedule? They live into their 80s and then DROP FUCKING DEAD. You'd think that a fucking BILLIONAIRE would be able to make use of techniques and then AFFORD TO PAY FOR THEM.
What, do you think this is something that pops out of thin air? I showed you progress. Not only progress, but progress in the past five years. With more scientists and engineers being added to the intellectual capacity of our civilization with industrializing countries such as China and India educating tens of millions, along with rapidly advancing computer technology, I do think we're less than two decades away from at least being able to double the human lifespan. And if we can double it, that gives us more time to extend it further. Are you one of those men that thinks this technology is all that ever will be?

>>3811763
>>3811781

What the fuck are you idiots talking about?

I love that quote. Where did it come from?

>>3811926
>I don't understand what they said
>That means they must be idiots
There's something wrong with your thinking, pal.

>>3811924
Post it Inurdaes. Post that strip. Post that obligatory pic.

>>3811941
This one?

>>3811946
yes

i think that if you would live forever, you would definitely need harddrive chips into your brain, your brain cant hold more information than a lifetime, so you would die a certain death if you just kept on living forever, plus you would probably become insane in your 160´s, you couldnt handle all the people around you that you care about dying, and you would feel so alone and out of place and it would probably suck ass.

I was born in the early 60's.

Right now I am living in crazy martian flying car robot brawl time.
I dont see any martians or flying cars and none of the robots I have seen so far even look like something that I'd want to fuck let alone pretend to kiss while it(she) regurgitated food into me so that I would not have to use the vending machines and show up on the federal grid, alerting authorities to my presence who of course never stop hounding me relentlessly through a dystopian hellscape of the surfacedwelling industrial class far below the gleaming spires of the wealthy.

Instead I get lime flavoured budweiser and the kardashians. I'm sorry, I dont know what went wrong. I did my part, I drank alot of tang and I didnt even like it but it fortified me against sniffles and communism.

>>3811962
Fuck one person living indefinitely, everybody should live indefinitely.

>>3811971
People will still breed. If they do not die then you will reach a massive over-population crisis. Life and death is the natural cycle of nature. You will never conquer death.

>>3811971

what about overpopulation?

survive long enough until gene therapy allows you to survive indefinitely

>>3811975
>>3811974
Babies don't spontaneously appears from a membrane from an alternate reality. It's a choice. If you wish for life extension, you get sterilized or you go interstellar.

>>3811974
just because it is natural or destructive doesn't mean it won't happen.
if history is a precedent, it will happen, there will be chaos, but after a while and loads of suffering the world over civilization will find some happy balance.

>>3811974
>Life and death is the natural cycle of nature. You will never conquer death.

We are part of nature. What we do defines the "nature".

also, i bet that not a single person will ever reach more than 500 years of age, the odds of not ever becoming sick or be on some death threatening accidents, are against you.

>>3811988

>>3811924

Which city?

>>3811998
Not specifying, but South Australia.

>>3811988
there are immortal organisms that have lives 2+ millenia.

>>3812007

You mean the jellyfish?

Were all gonna be very jelly of the jellyfish because the jellyfish lives in safety underwater. Hes not riding cars every day, hes not using anti gravity transportation. And hes not the favorite food of underwater predators.

>>3812000
It's Melbourne.
We all know.

>>3812017
Yes... Melbourne...

I live in Melbourne.

>>3812016
>implying technology can't make our lives like jellyfish

>>3812028
Adelaide is the only thing resembling civilization in South Australia

>immortal organisms
Tardigrades
Hydra
Turritopsis nutricula (jellyfish)

>>3812000
I'll go around South Australia with a board of your future-company name (that I can't recall atm).

>>3812000
isnt adelaide like the only thing resembling a town in south australia

>>3812000

Well I'm in Adelaide

>>3812025

what do you mean?

theres always gonna be niggers with guns, theres always gonna be fast vehicles that you use, and theres always gonna be aids needles lying around in the bus seats.

>>3812028

Well Mount Gambier is getting pretty big, and Murray Bridge

>>3812038
I've been to Murray Bridge, it's a complete hole.

>>3812028

once I become a multi-billionaire I will be turning Woomera into an oasis with it's own desalination plant and spaceport

>>3812057

>>381
1.) gun control
2.) public transportation
3.) ...don't inject yourself with AIDS filled needles

everything you list are dangers we're all universally aware of and thus we spend an inordinate time thinking of the dangers, but black people with guns for example, account for a very small percentage of actual causes of death among most people (especially non-blacks).
even if you lived 500 years, I don't believe the statistics would indicate an overwhelming chance of death by AIDS or being shot

>>3812071

thanks for taking what i said in a literally sense.

i was just pointing out that youre eventually going to be hit by a crashing plane.

>>3812063

Don't expect it to happen though, I have no idea how I'm going to obtain my wealth

>>3812086
Don't worry man, we'll work together for a better world.

>>3812091

We will rule this world.

>>3811984
For someone as passionate about life extension as you are, you must have seen that question asked about a million times; I'm surprised you haven't come up with a better answer.

I'm not posting this just to bash you, just to say that there are much better answers to that question than the one you gave, for example:

-global population growth has left the exponential curve and will come to a halt by the 2040's, and likely shrink to about 8 billion after that; countries will be paying people to emigrate lest their economies stagnate from no population growth (assuming mortality rates analogous to today)

-the apparent connection between standard of living and fertility rate which seems to be the cause of this; as we yet don't full understand it, this trend could continue and drive the global population growth down even further, causing global population to shrink even more, again, assuming mortality rates analogous to today (as this improves, as it inevitably does around the globe, people choose to have smaller families. If you want to know why, read the book "The Next 100 Years", Friedman)

-life extension will, for the most part, consist of treatments for age related pathologies and thus be just as morally compelling as a medical treatment as treating cancer is today. So ask people, are you going to deny them treatment? The answer will be just as axiomatic in the future as it is today.

Just a few thoughts. Thanks for reading.

>>3812112
>For someone as passionate about life extension as you are, you must have seen that question asked about a million times; I'm surprised you haven't come up with a better answer.
It's specifically because I've been asked that at LEAST 100 times that I couldn't be fucked giving a better answer.

I have read The Next 100 Years already and am aware of the slowing birthrates in more educated, industrialized countries.

I certainly won't deny anyone life extension even if they already have like five children, I just would like for them to HALT after that if they want it. If we suddenly stop the 100,000 people a day dying largely from age-related illnesses then we have to also stop the 100,000 or so that are born every day. Personally I don't see 10km-wide rotating O'Neill space habitats that far off and we definitely have enough materials in the solar system to support 1 trillion people. But it's better a slow growth rate up to that point than within 400 years.

>>3812132
>Personally I don't see 10km-wide rotating O'Neill space habitats that far off

>>3812226
'That far off' being defined as within the next 100 years or so.

+ Vastly improved materials for construction
+ Superior-than-human AI automation capable of construction tasks given blueprints
+ Asteroid mining utilized and the with the new space race 70 years before
+ Likely a 5-fold increase in the amount of scientists and intelligent people in the world due to the current industrializing countries such as China dragging hundreds of millions out of poverty, if not their entire nation
>DID YOU HEAR ABOUT THOSE DAFT WRIGHT BROTHERS, THEY WISH TO MAKE PEOPLE TRAVEL ON A 'FLYING' MACHINE! THEY ARE MOST FOLLY
>YES JOLLY GOOD LAUGHS OLD CHAP
Circa 1911

>>3812250
>>3812226

Actually, why cant we have them today? Its not complex technology, just a big spinning ring.

Just throw some soil in there, some mechanism to quickly and efficiently generate oxygen, and you are set.

Just make sure you compost everything.

Why cant we do this today? Frankly, I think we should do it just for the sake of doing it. Just to put something like this in orbit for practice.

>>3812262
Not quite today, but there are actions that can be implemented with today's technology and expertise to work toward the goal of having all the tech required to build something like this without costing 500 billion dollars AT LEAST. My optimistic estimate is 10 years, but it simply won't happen because of politics as usual and while SpaceX, Virgin etc are great they don't have THAT much money to wield massive control over the government regarding space travel.

We are living in the best of times. Some time in the near future, human civilization will start declining. There won't be any long-term moon/mars colonies whatsoever because most of the resources will be spent trying to solve the ballooning problems on Earth.

>>3812268

What technology do we need for this to become more feasible?

>>3812272

LFTR's

PART I OF II

>>3812270
> We are living in the best of times. Some time in the near future, human civilization will start declining. There won't be any long-term moon/mars colonies whatsoever because most of the resources will be spent trying to solve the ballooning problems on Earth.

Correct. We're going to end up with at least 9B people. We have nearly 7B right now. That's another 2B who'll expect to live exactly like American dipshits lived in the 20th Cen. There isn't enough oil to satisfy that sort of demand. There isn't enough right NOW, since the US is only 4% of the world's pop, yet consumes at least 20% of all oil produced. India/China have 2.5 billion people (8x the US) right NOW, and if they only uptick their lifestyles 10%, that's a massive increase in the oil demand. Oil will progressively be priced out of common usage, which will DESTROY this globalist production/consumption system that ONLY CHEAP OIL MADE POSSIBLE.

The world simply doesn't accept that the US lived like kings for an entire century, and burned through a 1T barrels of oil on its own, which can NOT be repeated, EVER. The anger and demands from all parties will produce the Resource Wars that I've long predicted.

PART II OF II

>>3812270

And it's hardly a prediction, since the US started WWIII already in the Mid East, by attempting to conquer and occupy two oil-producing or oil-crossing nations, Afgh. and Iraq. And THOSE positions are merely flanking maneuvers for the next Imperial conquest, IRAN (note: major oil-producing nation).

The world will NOT just let Imperial America conquer and occupy Iran. It can NOT happen without a clear military contest. Hence, the Resource Wars I've spoken of.

And as those Resource Wars mature and fill the 21st Cen with war, War, WAR, then they will only lead to the Last War, which will involve nuclear weapons, genocidal starvation, and use of biophages, which will destroy all major First World societies. All of them.

Humans will then have to preside over rotted and bombed-out infrastructures, becoming pastoral. And that's pretty much all that can happen for the rest of the Third Millennium.

What Malthusians always get wrong is that they extrapolate from the present without factoring in how humans would react to worsening conditions and without anticipating new technologies and new sources of wealth. They can be forgiven for the second one because none of us have a crystal ball, but the first one is an incredibly basic error. People don't sit around doing nothing as the world goes to shit. Especially not people who have tasted the good life. The extreme, almost masturbatory cynicism of the Malthusian should make him receptive to the notion that people would work towards solutions to population related issues if only because they want to maintain the luxuries they presently enjoy, but when confronted with points like these that complicate their predictions, they eventually just fall back on math and ridicule. "YOU REALLY BELIEVE WE CAN SUPPORT EXPONENTIAL GROWTH INDEFINITELY? LOL!!" Like anyone else they have an innate aversion to shades of grey and matters that complicate these issues, it's in our nature to prefer the path of least mental resistance and it seems plausible enough to them as it's something they can work out on paper or a calculator themselves that they feel justified in refusing to listen to or consider any caveats that make an exponential math-only discussion of how humans will cope with population growth too simplistic to accurately predict anything.

there will be no space exploration because FTL is impossible

we won't have a colony on mars because there is fucking nothing there

no sane person would toss that kind of money into something so useless as manned space exploration missions

>>3812430

>there will be no space exploration because FTL is impossible

We don't need FTL to explore space.

>we won't have a colony on mars because there is fucking nothing there

Are you kidding? The soil is 40% oxygen and there's water ice underneath that. Just because it's not Pandora with blue alien cat women doesn't mean there's nothing there we can use.

>no sane person would toss that kind of money into something so useless as manned space exploration missions

I am sane, and I would. We need someplace outside of Earth with a backup instance of our species and our technology in the event of a global cataclysm.

No person who values the continued existence of their species would oppose thise.

>>3812430
>>3812456
>>3812427
stop samefagging it up. i'v seen these exact posts 4 times in the lase 3 months. stop. hijacking. the thread.

>>3812478

>>3812430 is not a samefag you fool because that was me

Maybe it pops up in these threads because you know, it's true? ever considered that

>>3812478

That was my only post in this thread.

> We need someplace outside of Earth with a backup instance of our species and our technology in the event of a global cataclysm.
Tough, because we don't have the means to achieve that.

We could put people on Mars, and keep them alive. But if anything happened to earth and the supply ships stopped arriving, the colony would be finished in no time.

Surviving on Mars requires a rather high level of technology. For a colony to be self-sufficient, the technology would have to exist locally, along with the technology to maintain that technology, and so on.

1988, almost 23 oh wait its the 27th. FUCKING 23!. Help me god.

>>3812676

>Tough, because we don't have the means to achieve that.

Yes we do. We had it in the 70s.

>We could put people on Mars, and keep them alive. But if anything happened to earth and the supply ships stopped arriving, the colony would be finished in no time.

Only for the particular, traditional type of colony you have in mind.

>Surviving on Mars requires a rather high level of technology. For a colony to be self-sufficient, the technology would have to exist locally, along with the technology to maintain that technology, and so on.

See above. You're thinking of metal or inflatable capsules linked to one another, manufacturing their air from ice or the soil, and while that's how it would be done for the first outpost it's not how we'd live on Mars longterm.

The simplest and probably only plausible way to make a large volume of space on Mars habitable for humans is to seal a number of lava tubes. Concrete made from an adhesive agent and Martian soil will do. Once sealed, CO2 from outside can be pumped in until it has achieved Earth normal pressure. Full spectrum LED lighting strung along the ceiling powered by the same nuclear reactor used to power the processes used to make air and water for the first outpost will power these LEDs as well as heaters for conditioning the atmosphere inside the lava tube such that it is comfortable.

The soil can now be fertilized and planted with all manner of useful crops. These plants will eagerly consume the CO2, and when oxygen and CO2 levels are in the acceptable range for human beings, colonists can be moved in. They will reach an equilibrium with the plants, which will initially exist in far greater quantities than necessary. The humans only produce so much CO2, so the number of plants that can susbsist on it will survive, and produce the amount of oxygen appropriate for the colonists. It's a self-balancing system that can endure indefinitely, provided water is recycled and new nuclear fuel can be mined and processed on site. Food, waste handling and life support are covered by the natural biome created in the lava tube.

the world ends in 2012, already forgot that?

>>3812710

And because we started at Lava Tubes, 400 years in the future they wont have to dig out subway tunnels

ITT: Fatalists versus Futurists.

One side foolishly believing the world as it is will end, the other naively believing the world as we know it will end.

>>3812787

And, as always, the guy whose primary concern is finding some way to make himself out to be superior to everyone involved. Let me guess, agnostic?

>>3812799
Agnostic atheist, of course. What else is there to choose?

>>3812806

Indeed. You're welcome in this conversation but you will come across more favorably if you contribute valuable ideas in earnest rather than shitting on everyone and thumping your chest.

>>3812716
Oh right, my mistake.

>>3812272
- Proven compact plasma gasification unit which can work in zero gravity (which means modifications using maglev centrifuges which can then use regenerative braking so to save power
- Either compact LFTR design which can get rid of excess heat efficiently in space or large efficient solar panels to power the PGU.
- Proven printing/molding of individual elements from PGU to create 95% of the required robots
- Exceptional long carbon nanotube. graphene or grafold extrusion process out of PGU carbon material in microgravity
- Development of efficient carbon dioxide > oxygen filtration and conversion systems, but Mad Scientist made a thread yesterday about a water/sugar/alcohol filtration system which can run indefinitely as long as there's electricity I believe as well as some 'likeafish' device. PGUs can also be used to split CO2 itself into its components and ozone extracted from that can be filled into an outer shell of such O'Neill designs for extra radiation protection
- Some kind of meteor defense such as mass drivers that knock away space junk or perhaps solar lasers
- Rings around habitat to enact a small artificial magnetic field around the structure. I remember reading around a year ago that they made a small one about the size of a basketball. Now it's a matter of scaling up the technology.
- Some kind of drainage system in bottom of onboard lakes and later seas for nutrient redistribution onto mountains (I THOUGHT OF IT BEFORE I READ RINGWORLD SHUT UP_

>>3811668
>children born this year will graduate high school in 2029

That's actually a really long way away

I'm 22. 22 years a fucking long time. It's the whole fucking time I"ve been alive. I'll probably have another 4 of these. See the way I worded made it sound worse than you did.

>>3812430
>because FTL is impossible
>is impossible

Hahahaha, the amount of times obnoxious scientists said this throughout history is almost limitless, just like our universe.

bump

>my face when people don't realize that your mental 20's start when you're 40.

>>3812960
wat

I don't know about that, but I certainly know a lot of 40 year olds who act like they are 20. Maybe that's a correlation. >>3812960