/sci/ - Science & Math

>those comments

I used to think the world was mostly retards. Then when I got to college and found hundreds of smart people I thought I misjudged the population. Now I am starting to regress to my old ways.

>>3784962
Yes. The world is mostly retarded. But once you get into higher learning, you find it isn't COMPLETELY retarded.

>comments

Fuck this gay earth. I had to listen to someone bitch today about how this proves "Einstein was just full of shit. We would be no different if he wouldn't have ever existed. Nothing but a load of nonsense".

Why...

>I reckon this needs a sticky.
What about the other 96 threads about it in the last Hour? should we sticky them too?

Paul Mills
18 minutes ago
I agree with invention13, a particle can't go AT the speed of light, that doesn't mean it can't go faster (going backward in time?)

OP, what is that a picture of???

>>3784981

That's precisely why there needs to be one LIGHT SPEED BREAKAN GENERAL thread at the top of page 0

Haven't you seen Futurama... Scientists increase the speed of light

///
Einstein can't be wrong. Right? I mean, his theories are SETTLED SCIENCE. Like Darwin and evolution. Intelligent Design can't be possibly considered by the intellectual elite because that would allow for the existence of God and individual accountability. But since we're talking about science, why is there no evidence of evolution in the fossil record? Why is there still Carbon 14 in "million year old" sedimentary layers? Hint: All traces of C14 would be gone in as many as 50K years. Yeah, Einstein can be wrong. Evolution can be wrong. It's just liberal thinking that is NEVER, EVER wrong.

HollywoodHick
31 minutes ago
///

>>3785007

It's the Nintendo "My body is ready" guy.

>>3785056
>equating scientific theories with liberalism

Fucking rednecks.

What if I know that everything I know is a lie? Then is the fact that I know everything I know is a lie a lie?

It was Albert Einstein, no less, who proposed more than 100 years ago that nothing could travel faster than the speed of light.

>Albert Einstein
>more than 100 years ago

2021 CONFIRMED FOR SINGULARITY

>>3785159
AND WITH 2021 I MEAN 2012, JUST THAT THE CONCEPT OF TIME GOT FUCKED UP.

>sending information back in time is now possible
So when will get tweets from the future?

>>3785132
It just proves you don't know anything.

>>3785179

....whaaaaaaaat. We have tachyons now?

Reason #4,324 why the Scientific Method isn't about PROVING ANYTHING.

>>3785179
It is already happening. Its just that in the future, tweets are just as meaningless.

>But last night it emerged that the man who laid the foundations for the laws of nature may have been wrong.
>may have been wrong
>may

Don't you just love pussy weasel-word journalism?

>>3785179
>So when will get tweets from the future?
>tweets from the future
>tweets

The future laughs at our primitive method of communication. We'll be reading minds by then.

>>3785140
A lot of his great work was published before 1911.

>Einstein was a man in the same way Isaac Newton was a man. Too many so called scientists have taken facts and distorted them to fit into his theories in the same way that men tried to make the world the center of the universe at one time. Let's start taking the facts and creating God's universe not Einstein's universe.

if this is true, all the physics text books have to be rewritten....and I wasted years of reading and learning bullcrap

This is why General Public can't into science

>Possible evidence that demonstrates a dimension of incompleteness/inexactness of a theory

>Einstein MAY HAVE BEEN WRONG!!!??? OMG!!! WTFBBQ!!!!!!!!!

Science is concerned with the modeling, understanding, and knowledge of observable reality, the public is concerned with personality, social interactions and people.

This document single handedly proves that the earth is not 200 billions years old like Atheists spout. In fact if the speed of light isn't even set in stone, Creationists may very well be right in that the earth is close to 10 - 15 thousand years old.

The age of the earth doesn't really matter to creationists but with this news, you can be damn sure Atheists have a lot of explaining to do.

>>3785271

Nice strawman arguments fucking everywhere, bro.

>>3785271
bible makes no mention of the age of the earth. all the claims creationists make are assumptions.

>>3785301
>>3785285
Really guys... really?

can someone who knows things about science and shit tell me what the implications of this are

>>3785315
Basically, E =/= MC^2 because C is not constant.

>>3785315
Turns out we don't know shit. So basically it's business as usual.

>>3785315
It means god reals, and science was a lie all along. SUCK IT ATHEISTS.

>>3785315
>Picture yourself doing a 200 line equation.
>You've been given the equation that will solve problems of the unknown.
>You get to the 160th line and realize the equation you were given is wrong
>In turn everything you've done based on that equation you used is now horse dong.

The laws of physics could potentially be thrown out of the window. Everything we 'know' about the universe and the way it works is a lie.

>>3785414

No one claims to know anything about the universe. Our models are simply practical approximations.

>>3785430
Science makes claims to which how the world works.
Not anymore.

QUESTION!!!

WHAT THE FUCK DID THEY USE TO GET THE SPEED SEEING AS HOW ALL THEIR SHIT ISN'T EVEN LIGHT SPEED?

>>3785323
Fuck year, time for the competition to take his place. The person who does it will become twice as famous. I might take up physics and give it a shot as well.

>>3785449
The detector is a known distance away from the neutrino source, and modern time keeping is incredibly accurate. They can calculate the speed from that.

>>3785414
>>3785414
>>3785414
That's not true at all. Classical mechanics was not "thrown out the window" when relativity was formulated.
And relativity theory won't be "thrown out the window" if we discover something new, because it does explain 99.9999% of what we examine in our universe.

I absolutely guarantee that whatever may be discovered will only supplement relativity theory, maybe slightly modify it.

There is no evidence here that Einstein was completely wrong, possibly just incomplete in his ideas.

>>3785461
follow up question did they only detect 1 neutrino or multiple neutrino giving the finger to einstein?

Wow,its like this is 2000 again

>>3785476
>>3785476
If it were only 1 neutrino there would be no grounds for speculation, it would very quickly be thrown out as inaccurate.

I believe the number was something like 15000.

Still, it needs to be independently verified before anyone starts shitting bricks.

>SCIENCE IS FINISHED BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD EINSTEIN WAS WRONG

But it doesn't work like that, morons.

this absolutely floored me... un-fuckin believable

>>3785501
>can't even read
why am i not surprised

The thing I find most excited about this discovery is the fact that one week from now, no one will be talking about it.

>Wait until confirmations.
>Ignore the anomaly or alter theories slightly to account for it.
>Keep working.

>>3785512
I actually whispered "holy shit" out loud.

>>3785538
if this is true, this is one of the greatest discoveries in the history of physics. i doubt people will forget about this in a week.

It really calls to judgement, why can't something break that speed? And why will it disintegrate into energy?

We all can imagine matter just "dissolving" into pure light and energy - but how? What sort of quantum friction is there to force the bound energy of these particles apart?

I think the scientific community may have to cut their loss and admit that Einstein really didn't have the final say in physics theory.

>>3785551
> Talking about science related topics on a science and math board
How silly of us!

>>3785608
I don't think anyone's claiming Einstein had the final say in Physics considering he was a fierce opponent of quantum mechanics.

>>3785608
>>3785608
> I think the scientific community may have to cut their loss and admit that Einstein really didn't have the final say in physics theory.

No one in academia believes that Einstein had the final say in anything. To believe such a thing is unscientific. We accept that this is CURRENTLY the best explanation for the observed universe, and are always aware that there could be modifications or supplementary theories created in the future.

Even Einstein did not claim to have answered all of physic's questions.

Einstein can't be wrong. Right? I mean, his theories are SETTLED SCIENCE. Like Darwin and evolution. Intelligent Design can't be possibly considered by the intellectual elite because that would allow for the existence of God and individual accountability. But since we're talking about science, why is there no evidence of evolution in the fossil record? Why is there still Carbon 14 in "million year old" sedimentary layers? Hint: All traces of C14 would be gone in as many as 50K years. Yeah, Einstein can be wrong. Evolution can be wrong. It's just liberal thinking that is NEVER, EVER wrong.

>>3785623
what field of science does quantum mechanics belong to?

>>3785649
geology

>>3785649
Biology.

>>3785649
parapsychology

>>3785649

Social

>>3785642

No evidence of evolution in the fossil record? Lol.

>>3785649
Womyn's studies.

>>3785649
Archeology

Ignorance, ignorance everywhere.
>>>/v/111175840

how made are you /sci/ guys that everyone will misinterpret this information. it makes me a little mad. no lie.

>>3785672
>women's studies
>a hard science
>a science at all

>>3785677
I just ran from that thread to escape that shit.
>explicitly stating that andromeda is the closest galaxy
WAT

>>3785682
Chauvinistic pig!

This means TIME FUCKING TRAVEL IS POSSIBLE.

Expect to see spaceships within your lifetime. Expect to see planetary travel ect.

CERN was about finding new energy.

>>3785709
No it doesn't you fucking retard.

>>3785709
But there already have been spaceships within my lifetime. NASA just retired a model that's obsolete.

>>3785709
How does it mean that?

>>3785709
>TIME FUCKING TRAVEL IS POSSIBLE
>Expect to see spaceships within your lifetime
if time travel is possible I expect to see them in my greatgrandfather's lifetime

>>3785632

This.

I'll quote it here for all the brotards and trolls who are posting that because of these findings at CERN hurr durrr Einstein was wrong and Religion is right.

"No one in academia believes that Einstein had the final say in anything. To believe such a thing is unscientific. We accept that this is CURRENTLY the best explanation for the observed universe, and are always aware that there could be modifications or supplementary theories created in the future."

Theories can be modified or refined as new evidence is found.

>call yourself scientist
>desperately cling to the lies some old jew made up
Why so religious dogmatic science?

>>3785748
>>3785748
>call yourself a troll
>desperately cling to Einstein (topic of the day)

I hate the public

>>3785140
did you forget that we live in 2011 or something?

THEY DON'T FUCKING KNOW SHIT, THE FUCKING ARTICLE EVEN SPELLS IT OUT FOR YOU. THAT'S WHY THEY TOLD EVERYONE OF THEIR RESULTS SO THAT SOMEONE SEES THEIR FUCK UP.

AS OF RIGHT NOW THIS MEANS EXACTLY JACK SHIT

EVERYONE STFU AND WAIT

OK, holy shit. first time ive been online today and i see neutrinos broke the speed of light barrier. as a physics student i am chewing my nails off. i have no idea what to think about this. anyone have some legit articles that arent popsci? I honestly am torn between this meaning almost nothing to changing everything.

>2011
>Believing in Science

>>3785799
read:
>>3785785
They're pretty sure it's a goff and are trying to find out where.

Calm the fuck down and wait, no, don't ask your professor as he'll say the same thing and maybe lose some respect for you.

I'm a biologist, what does this mean for me?

>>3785813
And if it isn't a mistake, what then? Im not going to set my textbooks on fire and claim einstien was wrong about everything because that is nonsense, but the possibilities are swimming in my mind.

>>3785777
according to this news it could be the year 1597.

Yeah, gee whiz, I can't remember ever seeing an unverified claim of someone breaking the speed of light. Except maybe a half-dozen times every year for the last couple of decades.

This is the most important thing to keep in mind: >>3785538

>>3785835
except this claim came from cern which is actually a reputable source.

>>3785835
>CERN
>unverified

>>3785826
>And if it isn't a mistake, what then?
>if

What's the point of speculating when we don't have the full story yet?

IF it isn't a mistake then we'll deal with the news when we have it, right now just calm down, stfu and let the well paid people in lab coats handle it, srsly, they got this.

>>3785854
>>Don't consider possibilities, let other people do it for you

Stay classy sci

Isn't it just speculation at this point and they haven't actually proved the findings yet?

>>3785862

HEY GUISE WHAT IF PERPETUAL MOTION IS POSSIBLE.

THINK OF THE POSSIBILITIES.

>>3785862
But we're not even 'considering the possibilities' at this point, we're just speculating on the possibilities of the possibilities...and that's stupid.

srly, just wait for more info, it requires no damn effort on your part and is an entirely reasonable response to this news.

>>3785075

Reggie Fils-Aime, to be exact.

>>3785007
That's Reggie of Nintendo of America where someone used Photoshop's context sensitive brush to paint over his face. For some reason it just decided to put a hole there.

>>3785828
According to this news it could 1247.
It certainly isn't 2011.

>>3785868
If cern had produced it perpetual motion i would wonder too.
Also,
>>implying FTL is as improbable as perpetual motioin

>>3785854
mindless braindead drone detected

>>3785873
>>implying waiting without thinking takes no effort.

it means with proper application, we may have the technology to FUCK YOUR MOTHER

>>3785852
Yes, that's right, it's unverified. CERN is fully acknowledging this.

>>3785892
>>3785897
dudes, stop trolling, you know exactly what I mean, there's no point in getting excited over something when you don't have the full story, so just calm the fuck down.

>>3784935
>Not being a Nihilist
>Not already knowing that nothing is true and so everything is permitted
>2011

>>3785910
>>never get exited about possibilities
nofunallowed.jpg

>>3785918
You can get excited about the possibilities once the possibilities become apparent, right now it hasn't been verified by independent scientists yet so it can still be a fuck up.

So please, stay calm and don't get over-excited.

>>3785960
>>3785960

Next on fox news:

EINSTEIN PROVEN WRONG: CERN

SCIENCE CRUMBLING, PEOPLE TURN TO GOD FOR ANSWERS.

>>3785976
Here's the actual article:
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/09/22/strange-particles-may-travel-faster-than-light/

>strange particles
>my face when LOLOLOLOLOLOL
>no face.

>>3785976
I would actually not be very surprised given the title of OP's article.

It's being presented in a very misleading way and I don't much care for it.

this explains everything. relativity is wrong! Thats why my GPS never works correctly!

>>3785990
leptons = quarks, didn't you know?

Also funny how they left our the cern scientist's quote about how they were currently claiming absolutely nothing and it is entirely possible it's just an error they were unable to pinpoint.

Maybe neutrinos are not actually traveling faster than light but are actually warping space to shorten the distance?

Before we get carried away:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/09/22/faster-than-light-travel-discovered-slow-d
own-folks/

>>3786013
Neutrino warpdrive. Cant wait. first contact.

>>3786013
Maybe you should learn to Ockham's razor. Observation > your or Einstein's fantasies.

I'm so hungry, I haven't had anything to eat since later tonight.

>>3785075
HIS NAME IS REGGIE

>3 months of checking
>and rechecking
>and verifying
>and re-verifying
>by people who have direct access to the materials

And people just try to disprove the fact that neutrinos have been recorded going faster than a photon, in their bedrooms, without any qualification, without membership in any scientific group, without having access to any resources near CERN/OPERA

My blood is boiling, I hate you guys and the fucking other half of the human race so much. You might have finished university and looked for information on Wikipedia, but there is no fucking way you know more than the people directly involved. Please die in an accident where no advanced physics are involved.

>>3785990
>read comments
>They also back global warming or the new term climate change because global warming is too toxic now, I think they know what they are doing??????????????????
>WHY

>>3786067
everyone on earth has direct access to the materials.
http://arxiv.org/abs/1109.4897

So does this time travel is already happening guys?

Does this mean... we know anything solid about the universe at all?

>>3786057
wait wat

>>3786021

Does that faggot work for Cern ? No ? So I don't care about what he has to say.

Probably the worst part about this? About year 2011 scientists having broken the speed of light?

Einstein died thinking he was right.

>>3786094
Erm, calculations of the universe leave us with a big mystery: half the the material (and not dark matter, just ordinary matter like hydrogen and carbon) seems to be missing. Just, missing. Black holes can't be explained. There isn't a theory that simplifies gravity like there are for electricity, magnetism, strong force and weak force.

We do not know shit.

>>3786067
Anyone who's aware of what's goes on in particle physics knows that every few months or so there is an exciting find which was checked and re-checked but that will eventually be disproven. This is probably one of them. It won't be disproven by amateurs in their, whatever you said, bedrooms, but don't jizz your pants just yet.

I say let's fire those Cern scientists and put /sci/ working there.

We'll be in the dark ages again in no time

>>3786121
I have no problem with that. I have problems with people who think they can outsmart scientists directly involved in the experiments and all other academics, in their basement, while being fat.
Besides, it's just a theory. One heck of a good one, but it's still a theory, and theorys are prone to get disproven


>>3786115
Einstein would've been so surprised he'd rewrite his theory.

Even though Eisenstein was wrong. People are still going to teach his theories as if he was correct.

>>3784935

>>3786141
>implying Einstein isn't rewriting it up in Heaven.

>>3786151
>Heaven

>>3786192
Hey, if anything, this proves that there could still be a God.
>>>/b/354823914

>>3786206
>links me to /b/
Yeah nah.

>>3785709

how does it indicate time travel in any way? if going faster than light induced time travel, those neutrinos wouldve disappeared into the future or past dont u think?

>>3786210
There's a lot of quality information in that thread and you're missing out on it just because you're a butthurt atheist.

Here's a sample.
http://www.newsmonster.co.uk/paranormal-unexplained/near-death-experiences-are-real-and-we-have-the-
proof-say-scientists.html

>>3786226
If you go the speed of light, you'd time travel, Kaku says so.

>>3786228
Oh boy this should be good.

Yep... they just proved that the Brain is a mysterious organ. Congrats for doing absolutely fucking nothing. Did they even try to explain why only a very small portion of people have experiences in near death situations? There is no proof at all.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/09/22/faster-than-light-travel-discovered-slow-d
own-folks/

Read it faggots.

>>3785915
>Not being a Depressed Atheist
>Can see through Nihilist bullshit philosophy.
>2011

Feels good man.

>>3786240
>Did they even try to explain why only a very small portion of people have experiences in near death situations?

That is moot information, it doesn't need to be answer, fucking atheist.

ianstewart
4 minutes ago
Within a 100 years God could easily have has created a new particle. Existence is continually evolving, so Einstein may have been right at the time.

now every body settle down, please let me explain:

God did it

>>3786260
Yeah, it does. Otherwise we just proved alien abductions.

>>3786272
No it doesn't. Grow up or I'll slay you.

>>3786270

Just kidding, I am a stupid faggot.

>>3786265
God can create particles now? Why does it take him so long to do such things? Is God Notch? o.o

>>3786282
No, I'm not.
Who are you?

>>3786275
Proving that an incredibly small portion of the population remember weird shit after being nearly braindead? That doesn't even begin to prove there's an afterlife. Give me a break.

The other evidence I can bring to bear applies to all people, and is overwhelming, that your cognition is really the result of physical processes in your brain. It utterly dwarfs this one off unexplained oddity.

>>3786289
Why are you replying to yourself?
>>3786303
Not everything can be proven with science.

Why do we sleep?

So really quick someone explain to me how traveling faster than light == time travel

All I care about is when we can finally disproved those tranny fuckers wrong.

XX = Female, XY = Male, deal with it you sons of bitches.

>>3786318

You are grade A retarded my friend. Actually, most of this topic are.

>>3786318
>Not everything can be proven with science.
>Why do we sleep?
I think you're trying to make another point with implications. Let's cut to the chase.

Science cannot and will not explain everything, ever. What things science does explain are based on evidence and are likely to be true. That science is necessarily incomplete has no bearing as to whether a particular piece of knowledge obtained through science is true or false.

>>3786318
>why do we sleep?
HAHAHAHAHA.
I was there too bro.

>>3786322
Because time is (was?) relative to the observer (youtube it for a video explanation)

>>3786322
I can't. I can barely understand it myself. Has to do with general relativity.

Not all FTL is "go back in time machine". However, naive FTL is.

In short, simultaneousness is a concept that is not absolute. Two events that may appear simultaneous to one observer may appear to happen at different times according to another observer.

If you can FTL from one reference frame, turn around, and FTL relative to another reference frame, then you just went back in time.

>>3786322
Because he recently watched Superman II.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCsHTNP2MaU

Who wants to bet that this will never be verified and that no such thing exists? Science always gets people's hopes up only to smash it down later.

>>3785321
it's a constant, just a different one

Press conference about this will be held in 5 hours and 40 minutes here: http://webcast.cern.ch/

it will probably turn out that someone's measurements were wrong, and that E=mc2 remains intact but failed to account for certain things.

>>3786341


i still dont get it. i mean i get that time is relative to the observer thing. but traveling faster than light just means we travel to a point where the information has not reached us yet (photons), but it already happened in a point in the past.

It doesnt matter if it takes millions of years for the photons to reach us, because the event already happened millions of years ago at another point in space. time is absolute, our perception of it is relative.

or at least thats how i have always understood it I can be full of shit. can anybody clarify?

This scares me. It's like we're going back into the dark ages now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484

>>3785285
>>3785301

Why the fuck did you even reply to that? Are you complete retards or what?

>>3785168

Your SEALAB is showing!

>>3786494
>time is absolute, our perception of it is relative.

That's the bit you're getting wrong.

Oh fuck

That Dr. Richard T. Bale copypasta was fucking correct

My fucking brain man

>>3786494
your reference frame in time and space that you're observing from is relative, which is why your perception is relative.

The only constant between reference frames is the speed of light which is the same everywhere.

>>3786615
unless you are a neutrino

badastronomy says CERN used GPS to ascertain the distance between the LHC and Italy where OPERA sits.

I'm reminded that GPS is affected by local gravity, oftentimes quite dramatically, especially whether the satellite is passing over dense geography or water, etc. One hopes that many multiple satellites were used and all the perturbations in the satellites orbits compensated for.

I actually don't know the parameters for the circle of error for GPS with x number of satellites, although I believe that a minimum of two military grade satellites is required for a CEP of 30".

>>3786753
the gps satalite link they used is accurate to within 20cm and was independently verified by two other organisations. It's accurate enough to measure the effec tof continetial drift.

>>3786753
I am reassured by the knowlege that the boys at NASA were able to navigate any number of probes, including Cassini, using old-fashioned Newtonian orbital/trajectory calculations to park a probe nuts to butt against asteroid Vesta

>>3786790

20 centimeters = 7.87401575 inches, so multiple satellites, interpolated over multiple passes/time

still don't know CEP, but like I said, I'm just going to assume CERN - like NASA - knows what they're doing

>>3786790
>continental drift

slightly different scale involved, not to mention time

also, I observe the GPS is results are the result of Doppler shift of radio waves (another factor in measurement error?)

>>3786790
>continental drift

slightly different scale involved, not to mention time

also, I observe the GPS is results are the result of Doppler shift of radio waves (another factor in measurement error?)

also, I observe that the theory behind GPS measurments is the Doppler shift of radio waves (another factor in measurement error?)

Sorry for multiple post, please excuse my English

So is there anyway we can start using these Neutrinos for communication?

I want to download a car.

>>3786816
Point was, the link was good enough that they knew the detectors ended up 10 cm further apart over the course of the experiment due to the effect of continential drift and the 2009 Appulia earthquake

>>3786838
what is source please?

>>3786843
http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1109/1109.4897.pdf

The actual paper they released about the data
the stuff about the baseline distance is in section four

page 20 has a very nice tabulation of the identified sources of possible systematic error

>>3786858
thank you, I shal go read.

this is fantastic news and we must be very very careful, not suspicious, but careful, you understand?

>>3786864
Of course. It's a shame the Japanese neutrino lab was disrupted by that earthquake or we could've had outside confirmation or rebuttal sooner.

>>3786858
I see here: "The measurement is based on highstatistics data taken by OPERA in the years 2009, 2010 and 2011. Dedicated upgrades of the CNGS
timing system and of the OPERA detector, as well as a high precision geodesy campaign for the
measurement of the neutrino baseline, allowed reaching comparable systematic and statistical accuracies."

I feel better all ready

>>3786753
Guys, think about this, the systems that correct atomic clocks in GPS satalites are based on general relativity.

So, if GR is faulty the clocks could also be wrong which means the distances were calculated wrong which means there's nothing wrong with GR which means??

>>3786894
Ok that's a mindfuck

>>3786894
Which means GR is still wrong. (Assuming the measurement holds.)

>>3786894
I think they did tests on the accuracy of the GPS system.

>>3786902

By the virtue of being a theory GR is wrong.
There will always be a more accurate model.

/sci/ doesn't know how to science.
This isn't a big deal, fuck off already.

>>3786913
>By the virtue of being a theory GR is wrong.
>There will always be a more accurate model.
Arguable.

>>3786906
IGS clock product accuracy
The central function of the IGS is to enable GPS to be useful for the most demanding scientific applications by
generating and distributing satellite orbit and clock information with cm-level accuracy in lieu of the broadcast
navigation ephemerides. All IGS products (see http://igscb.jpl.nasa.gov/components/prods.html)) are formed as the
weighted averages of solutions contributed by up to eight participating analysis centers (up to six for clocks). For
more details of the IGS analysis combination strategy see Beutler et al. (1995), Kouba and Springer (2001) and also
annual reports of the IGS Analysis Coordinator. While the observational data used by the various groups overlap, the
effects of differing analysis strategies, modeling approaches, and softwares are largely independent. In this way,
the IGS combined products benefit in stability, reliability, completeness, and robustness compared with the results
from any single center, and they are usually as precise and accurate as the best individual solutions.

To examine the stability of the GPS clocks, we rely on the IGS Final clock products, which are available about
13 days after the end of each GPS week and are tabulated at 5-min intervals (or every 30 s for satellite clocks since
early 2007).
http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/CORS/Articles/sat-period_gpssoln08.pdf

>>3785239
lol faggot i dint waste years reading anything so i get to start niiiiice and fresh

I'm pretty fucking sure they fucked up the measurements somewhere.

>>3786934
As is everyone, included the physicists at CERN.

lol this article quotes my physics supervisor randomly.

>>3786934
that's what I thought at first, but as I dig deeper into GPS, I think this is avery accurate system, and satellite clocks are Cesium atom clock,ok, but accurized and checked against 5 minute random walk interval programs, etc. It is all very tightly observed and regulated

So this is my first time on /sci/, one of the many people coming to hear your take on this.

What I want to know is, if this results are verified and correct, how exactly does this influence the possiblity of FTL travel for humans at all? I'm just one of the dumb general public, but I thought that we - and most things - aren't made up of neutrinos, and they just pass through matter (correct me if I'm wrong).

I understand that this is potentially a big discovery, but I don't understand how it has the ramifications the media are claiming it has for FTL travel.

>>3785738
If time travel was possible we would have already seen it happen now wouldn't we?

>>3786957
You're asking for predictions. Our model is broken. We cannot make predictions. To make predictions requires a new model, and that would win a Nobel prize.

>>3786957
If these new findings were correct, everything we thought we knew about physics would need to be reevaluated. Before thinking about if we could travel that fast we would need a new theory to replace relativity.

>>3786968

Our descendants think we're boring, so they don't visit.

>>3786957
As far as I can tell this would at best allow us to send information at faster than light speeds between set locations. tThat would be fairly incredible, but there doesn't seem to be a way to use this for actually transporting humans

>>3786971
I predict that you're going to get a slap in the face tomorrow.

See how easy that was?

>>3786980
Yeah there is, don't you watch Star Trek, retard?

>>3786963
Calculating jump coordinates

HAHAHAHAHAH

>SCIENCE


Religion would never EVER be this flawed.
In God
WE TRUST

>everything we thought we knew about physics would need to be reevaluated

not really, no.

>>3786968
>>3786978

Or perhaps it works in such a way that you can't travel back before the moment in time time travel was created/discovered.

>>3786987
Yet we still do not know enough about God nor his angels.

>that weird feel when I've had, I think, 6 lectures in both philosophy and biophilosophy this semester... and have already learned enough to realise everyone who badmouths Einstein because of this is a bloody retard

The auto-evolution of science is why it's great, and not having an absolutely definitive answer (unlike religion) is what fucking drives it forward

Now I am wondering... To measure time with such a precision, assuming you use two different atomic clocks, you need them perfectly synchronized. To synchronize them, there seem to be two ways:
- Have them both at the same place, synchronize them here, move one to its destination,
- Have them both at their final places, synchronize them using some kind of communication channel.

In the second case, you need to account for the time it takes to communicate. On the Internet, the pings are clearly far too high. They would have had to use a direct optical fiber, or something like that.

So assuming that they just moved one of the clocks... Doesn't time stretch while moving? I thought there had been an experiment about desynchronizing atomic clocks by making one fly around the world in a supersonic jet.

They couldn't have done such a mistake, could they? Does anyone have an idea of how much the clocks would have been desynchronized by a let's say 1000km trip at 1000km/h (approximating everything by excess)? Also, I've never really understood which referential was used for the whole <span class="math">\sqrt{1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}}[/spoiler] thing. I know it makes no difference at close to c speed, but here, would being closer to the equator make time go at a slightly different speed too? Anyone knowledgeable enough about quantum physics to answer that?

>>3786988
thinking need to be readjusted when we got quantum mechanics, but that didn't mean I couldn't turn on my front porch light anymore

This opens so many doors..

>>3786987
In other words you don't know how science is done. These results are being viewed with skepticism, as 'systematic error' until they can be corroborated.

WE DID IT! WE FINALLY DID IT!

Time to party.

Everyone report this thread so it gets stickied!

>>3786997
already posted but go here for how they actually standardize the readings. not two clocks but dozens all monitored by redundant computer arrays

>>3787009
http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/CORS/Articles/sat-period_gpssoln08.pdf

forgot link

>>3787011
Thanks!

>>3786997
Former navy navigator reporting in.

Polaris/Poseidon used military GPS NAVSAT and I used it as a backup, verified by visual-ground, Loran C radio, celestial and SINS. This is a 40-year old system, tested, verified, checked and double-checked redundant atomic clocks-based and accurate as fuck.

Did dinosaurs still exist?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGK84Poeynk&feature=related

To all time-travel fags: If time travel is possible and will be invented in another thousand years or so. There should be many faggots time traveling around this time.

God has no speed limit.

>>3785056
What is this from?

>>3787051
How do we know there isn't already? It's not like anyone would believe them anyway.

>>3787067
It's a disinfo communication from the Dark Lord universe. Pay it no attention.

>>3787073
It's like if Jesus came back tomorrow. Being a world of skeptics now. We're probably lock him up with the other lunatics.