/sci/ - Science & Math

Agnosticism is the stance of "not giving a fuck"...

>>3700884
But while they might not give a fuck, that also makes them atheists because they don't believe in a god.

So they're agnostic-atheists.

>>3700892
There is no belief, therefore they are agnostic.

>>3700898
Here we fucking go.

>>3700898

No belief in god = atheist.

Atheist is both the lack of belief and the negative belief (belief in the opposite/nonexistence).

>>3700884

No it is the stance of an indecisive person who is not willing to answer hard questions. Saying it could be either or doesn't help at all. Logical process dictates that if there is no evidence of something at all, than it isn't true.

>>3700902
So Earth is the only planet in the universe with life?

>>3700901
Actually that's a very recent and deceptive definition of Atheism.

A more universally accepted definition of Atheism is: One who denies the existence of god or gods.

1 "anon do you believe in god?"
2 "I am an agnostic"

1 "anon, will you hand my that pen?"
2 "I am agnostic towards my ability of doing so, i migth slip on my way and pass out, I could have a heart attack, i cannot know 100% for sure, therefore i will have to be agnostic towards it."


NO matter what the fuck you say, you are still agnostic towards the idea of God. Even if you tell yourself you are a 100% sure of it, you simply cannot be, because there is no way for your brain to even begin disproving or proving the idea of a God.

Saying you're agnostic give me zero information about a persons stance.

You might as well walk up to everyone and tell them "I do not have in my possession the information necessary to answer this question (x)"

Unless the information exists, then well no shit.
As it is now, all theists are agnostics and they're just in denial until evidence is produced.

>>3700916
>A more universally accepted definition of Atheism is: One who denies the existence of god or gods

People can accept that definition all they want, doesn't make it correct. Atheism, as it's been said, and will continue to be said, is lack of belief; the A- prefix shows this. Ex: symmetrical, and asymmetrical. Of course, self-identifying Agnostics would rather have the other definition kept because they fear the baggage Atheism entails.

Agnostic with high atheistic leaning.
I agree that the chances of god existing are very low.
However, until the question of how the universe came about can be satisfactorily explained, I will have to at least partly agnostic toward the idea that a god did it. Even though it is the monst minute part I can possibly part with.

>>3700941
I'm a atheist and i don't lack belief, I just plainly deny the existence of any and all deities
.
The hole idea of lack of belief come form those of faith who try to understand why atheist cannot believe in their gods. They just cant get their heads around the fact we deny its existence.

>You cannot know unless an action ("Action A") is taken.
>Action A is possible.
>Therefore you cannot know.

See why this is wrong, OP?

>>3700941
> lack of belief
is loss of faith or loss of belief
it implies belief can be gained through conversion.
>lack of belief
can be applied to anyone of non faith, or different faiths, even agnostics.
As agnostics have a lack of faith to 100% sure in god.

>>3700876

the difference is you have the ability to check for the monster

>>3700971
>>3700991
your ability to disprove the monster does not change the fact that you are agnostic towards its existence before you actually check, wich is exactly what i said. Why is it wrong?

>>3701012
Because it's not applicable to the God debate. How do you propose we check for God? Which theory of God are we going to look at? Is God a man in the sky, or is he a force of the universe? Is God within us, like LaVey posits, or is God outside our universe entirely?

>>3701039
you check gods teaching, and see if what he tells us and claims to of done matches what we already know about are planet history.

Listen, I'm a skeptic. If it can't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and the existence of deities is one of those things, then I'm not going to put my faith behind it.

Also, what do you mean "Be an atheist?" I'm an agnostic, I'm already atheistic just not as much as a Militant or a Strong Atheist.

>>3701071
And what if what we know is wrong? History can be very subjective, you know.

>>3701094
religion can be even more subjective, there is after all only one holy book.

>>3701101
>there is after all only one holy book
I guess that's true if you live in North Korea.

>>3700876

> It's just so increadbly faggy.

That's all you got? That's what it's about?

Why is this even important to you?

Lucky for you, I am very much so your target. I don't know if there is a monster in the closet, or if there even is a closet, if we are having this discussion or if you or me even exist.

Feels bad to know I really think like that? Well that's too bad. Prove me wrong and I'll believe you. And I know you're already started thinking that you have a close to perfect and logically sound argument. But I still don't know if logic exists, so we can't use that as part of our proof.

I'll tell you this though. It feels -great- thinking all this (even though I'm not sure that I do).

>>3701094
can natural history be subjective?

>>3701125
a life dominated by feelings

gl with that

>>3701094
That attitude is part of the atheist dickery.

Hurr durr i'm a full blown atheist, everyone who isn't as edgy as me is a pussy.

>>3701130

Thanks! Some "good luck" is great stuff. It comes it bottles or jars?

Why are making ourselves extinct? (lowest fertility rate, whites)

>>3701165

What?

>>3701154
it usually comes with two tits and a vagina

>>3701165
rich people have fewer kids

poor people have more kids

>Are you agnostic towards there being a monster in your closet? I mean you can not be absolutely sure unless you check it. Therefore you can not know if there is a monster in your closet.

Proper refutation:
It is highly unlikely there would be a monster in my closet, but this depends on our definition of monster (God). Furthermore the chance of a monster being in anyone's closet is higher than just in mine. The more specific a claim that lacks evidence, the less likely it is to be true, as well as the reverse.

Therefore if we consider spiders monsters, we can say with certainty someone has a monster in their closet. Likewise if we consider God not to be one of its terribly flawed definitions it may exist, and certainly has more chance of existing than retarded mythological Gods. I am agnostic because not only we don't know if God exists, we don't know what God IS.

>>3701142
Are you referring to me or the guy I was responding to?

>>3701263
The other guy, I think it's obvious.

>>3701039
It's not supposed to be relevant towards the "God debate". It was a way to describe the extent of the word "agnostic". How was that unclear?!

Are you even serious?

>>3701125

That is my point. You can to some extent not be sure about anything. But stating this is somewhat obvious.
There currently is no way for man to disprove or prove God, thereby everyone by default must be agnostic towards the idea of God, per the definition of the word.

In a religious context it feel the word is quite loaded, thereby stating that you are agnostic (towards the belief in dietys) I feel there should be something more to it.

Either way ->
IM AN AGNOSTIC, BECAUSE YOU CANNOT DISPROVE GOD YAKNOW!? STUPIDFACE.

>>3701294
> no way for man to disprove or prove God
same goes for fairies and monsters in closets.

I don't believe there are monsters in my closet. I believe they used to hide in my closet, now they hide beyond my line of sight.

It's like they are carrying soliton radars the fuckers.

Holy fuck, Solid Snake used to hide in my closet.

>>3701312
And thus if you are agnostic towards God, you are agnostic towards fairies and monsters?

My whole point being is that by stating that you are agnostic towards the question is completely unnecessary.

It implies that you are not sure, that you are questioning. (no not literally...)

A more suited answer would be: I do not believe in God. But it's not impossible (if you must state the obvious)

Agnostics and Atheists are the same.

Both deny the existence of God.
Both require physical proof in order to believe in God.

Agnostics get laughed at because by their own admission, claim to know nothing. It truly is sad. Although Atheists take an arrogant approach to their belief, they are willing to defend something for whatever reason, even if it requires more faith than that of a theist.

>>3701142
I would answer atheist if a person asked me about religious beliefs, if i was as autistic as you i would HAVE to also notify that i am agnostic about it.

edgy pseudo-intellectual, hurr durrr i am so autisticly correct in defining my religious wievs.

To be honest, the idea of god, discussion and specualtion about it is quite boring, unless it's history, spychology, cultural etc....

>>3701401
the way atheists boast, you'd think they actually had empirical evidence that God doesn't exist.
pic related

>>3701401
I think even if God was real i'd still not pray to the fucker, I would be demanding that God would be chosen demographically.
If you want a god so much get a king or queen.

>>I mean you can not be absolutely sure unless you check it. Therefore you can not know if there is a monster in your closet.

Correct.
Wait... are you actually telling me that you KNOW with absolute 100% certainty that there is not a monster in your closet?

If you say yes I shall have to slap you.
reeeaally think about it, and you will realize that you cannot truly be 100% sure of anything.

I mean.. can you even be sure you exist in the first place? If you think you can be certain of anything, then you are likely missing the point, and/or not being completely honest with yourself because you WANT to think you can be certain of some things.

>>3701417
the way atheists boast, you'd think they actually had empirical evidence that unicorns don't exist.

the way atheists boast, you'd think they actually had empirical evidence that leprechauns don't exist.

the way atheists boast, you'd think they actually had empirical evidence that loch ness monster don't exist.

>>3700876

under what circumstances are atheists and agnostics trying to prove/disprove God?

Science?
Are you fucking shitting me? Science can't even cure aids. Are you serious?

>>3701417
The way some Christians go on make it sound they actually have physical proof that god created the world in 6 days.

Everyone knows the only true god is Buddha.

>>3701416
I'm doing so because of the nature of this thread. Most edgy atheist kids will bash you if you're agnostic, using exactly the "you're a pussy" attitude. Now go cry in a corner.

so is this thread trying to prove god is in the closet?

>>3701428
see
>>3701428

0/10 though

>>3701437
>Everyone knows the only true god is Buddha.
gb2/jp/

It never ceases to amuse me how internet atheists always give Buddhists a free pass because they are all closet weeaboos.

>>3701441
Where is the precense of theese edgy atheists?

and you are "doing so because of the nature of this thread"

Doing what? Trolling with a bit seriousness to it?

>>3701468

Fucking Buddhists. I hate them. They baptize you after you are dead.

>>3701455
So you think you can know something with absolute certainty? Literally KNOW it such that it is 100% impossible, (not just highly improbable) but IMPOSSIBLE for it to not be exactly the way you think it is?

If you know of such a thing then please share it with us.

Either you can give me an example or you can't. Which is it going to be?

>>3701468
considering buddha was an actual man and not a myth in the clouds, it is hard to deny he existed.

anyway like posted above.
>If you want a god so much get a king.

>>3701433
i met a black guy today. i know for a fact that he steals, kills and robs every person he sees because black people do it all the time.

>>3701473
Sorry, I take it back, gnostic atheists definitely aren't that way.

I don't have time to waste in trivial discussions like this, so let's just leave it like it is.

You keep thinking that only a small percentage or none of the gnostic atheist aren't obnoxious and I'll keep thinking that the majority of them are annoying as fuck.

>>3701488

SEE: *
>>3701294

"That is my point. You can to some extent not be sure about anything. But stating this is somewhat obvious.
There currently is no way for man to disprove or prove God, thereby everyone by default must be agnostic towards the idea of God, per the definition of the word."

5/10 now..

>>3701468
Because their ways of dealing with life is somewhat respected....

Einstein was faund of buddhism.. He was not an atheist though, he tried to promote a very nice version of pantheism.

Basicly: Nature is nature. The universe is the universe. It is awsome a fuck. And it existing is "God" enough for me.

>you can not be absolutely sure unless you check

Such is true for all knowledge, and even after you check you can rarely be sure, only more certain than before.

>>3701546
>But stating this is somewhat obvious

People always say its obvious and then fail to act accordingly and go around stating absolutes like they themselves are a god.

>>3701433
And? There is no evidence those things dont exist either.

>>3701490
Same can be said and has been said, and proven for Jesus.

What's your point?

>>3701607
Jesus is only one 3rd of the Christian god, God.
with out proof of the other two 3rd i wont believe.

>>3701599

>People always say its obvious and then fail to act accordingly and go around stating absolutes like they themselves are a god.

Some people do.

Some people also just confine with the norm and accepts "cannot be sure about anything" as the BOX everything goes into.

Still agree with you.

>>3701524
>gnostic atheist

there is no such thing as gnostic anything.
you're either a theist or an atheist. There is no agnostic.

theist = believe God exists. You can believe in your heart that God exists and you may know God exists but you can't prove it to an agnostic. Your experience would be 'relative'

agnostic = atheist
neither believes God exists. Agnostics admit it's a possibility.
Dawkins, a well renowned atheist said you would have to be clinically insane to deny the possibility of God/ a god's existence. In science, you leave NOTHING out until it's been proven or disproven. It's not science's job to prove God's existence. Yet Atheists and Agnostics cling to science for an answer they'll never find.

Belief is not entirely synonymous with knowing. If we knew, we would not need to believe. We would not need faith.
Hence gnostic/agnostic theist/atheist is contradictory in itself.

>>3701607
point is, Jesus said He was God, and Buddha did not. Jesus predicted when and where He would be executed, and Buddha did not. Jesus predicted He would rise from the dead on the third day, and Buddha did not. Jesus actually did rise from the dead on the third day, and Buddha is still dead.

see the difference now?

agnostic is the atheist side
gnostic is the religious side.
just fyi

Agnosticism is basically saying "i don't know"
And then you just live your life.

>>3701657
and die, and go to Hell

nice plan

>>3701635
The problem with that standpoint is that it conditions their mind to be less open to change of current understanding. You must always be consciously aware that everything you know is only the best explanation, regardless of how sound it seems to us at the time.

It is dangerous to do otherwise because history has shown us that any established system (even a system of thought) ends up serving only to perpetuate its own existence.

In order to have the best possible understanding of what is probable with out danger of bias you must never allow yourself to accept anything as true.

>>3701648
Would you please stop capitalizing he? It's not correct to do so.

I think there's a correlation between the last denominator on the MBTI test and whether someone calls themselves atheist or agnostic. F/ex:

INT-J = Atheist
INT-P = Agnostic

>>3701662
I call troll, no one is retarded enough to do that over the internet, specially on /sci/

>>3701658
I'm cool with that. Eternal damnation sounds pretty cool and totally realistic.

>>3701648
>Jesus predicted when and where He would be executed
Prove it.
>Jesus predicted He would rise from the dead on the third day.
Prove it.
>Jesus actually did rise from the dead on the third day.
Prove it.

All you've shown me is that you believe what is written in a book by a bunch of guy who never met Jesus or in fact met each other.

At least Buddha didn't make outrageous claims that he was the son of god and also god... WTF was that about?

>>3701670
inb4 mbti or IQ tests are bullshit.

>>3701524
They aren't present in this thread, was my point.

And yes, there are annoying retards everywhere.

And i do hate "I am an atheist deabte me" and so on...

This thread is not about atheism, it is about why stating that your religious belief are that God cannot be proven or disproven...

If annyone as much as thinks they can, i shall exclude theese people from my "model" (in lack of a better word).

How many persons on /sci/ would you believe actually claim they can know 100% wheter God exists or not?

>>3701671
not the guy, but is it not a name? Should names not start with capitol letters?

Im honestly asking.

Is it common not to do it with "jesus" or something?

>>3701688
It is correct in this use since you are referring to god.

I would have capitalized that, which would be proper, but im feeling irreverent today

There is too much order to the universe for me to just say there is no possibility of there being a higher power. The amount of things that had to go right to allow life to exist on this planet, for humans to be able to develop the intelligence to be able to form the question "why am i here" is just so mind boggling staggering that it seems ridiculous to believe that life exists just by chance.

I don't think anyone has the right answers, i believe religion can be a good thing at times but is most often used as a scare tactic to get people to act how you want them to. I do believe that one day we may have the opportunity to truly learn the secret of the universe, and it seems rather pretentious to rule out any answer with so little understanding.

>>3701648
he was implying other gods were false. thanks for the added fuel though. :)

>>3701692
>He

>>3701704
>considering buddha was an actual man and not a myth in the clouds, it is hard to deny he existed.
he didn't imply anything, just stated Buddha was a man, so you can not deny he existed.

>>3701688
Funny thing is that the first post in this thread fits exactly the attitude being discussed.

>>3701711
Which is appropriate when referring to god.

When I constructed a religion based on Suiseiseki I always capitalized She when authoring benedictions, chants, and prayers.

>>3701711
Helium?
whats that go to do with science and ma... oh wait.

>>3701660
When being formal, grand, scientific about it.
sure.

Casually conversing, to some extent yes.

"MOM where is the peanut butter"
"In the cupboard honey"

WRONG!

"mom where is the peanut butter?"
"I THINK it's in the cupboard"

CORRECT.
No, I am sorry. I am being a fag. You are absolutely correct. Allthough I think you see what I am saying aswell.

>>3701698
>The amount of things that had to go right to allow life to exist on this planet, for humans to be able to develop the intelligence to be able to form the question "why am i here" is just so mind boggling staggering that it seems ridiculous to believe that life exists just by chance.

If you ignore all the billions of other planets where it didn't work out like it did here, I could sort of see that making sense.

>>3701711
Oh, im sorry. I am agnostic towards the gender of the person writing the post.

agnostics claims "I DONT KNOW" ergo "YOU CANT KNOW" those faggots tell me what i can know or what i cant know, i blast them with piss

i hate them even more than creacionists

>>3701746
I always try talk like that, like prefixing things with "think" or "believe", not only to avoid being wrong but also to protect others from feeling I implied they are wrong.

>>3701765
see
>>3701142

If troll 0/10

Here's a good one for all you fags.

STFU, WHO THE HELL CARES

Nobody can absolutely prove it, Nobody can absolutely disprove it...All we know is that we're here now living on Earth.

Do you BELIEVE in God?
Do you THINK God exists?

I belive in Allah!
I think his wisdom is endless.

:)))))

>>3701662
do you tell joos not to write G-d?

yeah, didn't think so

>>3701672
why not practice now by jumping into an active volcano?

>>3701781
>>3701767

>>3701673
it's about a triune entity explaining Himself to us on this side of the looking glass

on the other side, things will be clearer

>>3701673
yes, i believe the inerrant Word of God

what is it you believe again? retarded fish frogs? being a monkey's uncle?

>>3701688
me

100%

God reals

>>3701804

>>3701796
:3

>>3701704
i'll go right out and say it if you prefer

all gods but the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are false gods

those false gods include you, science, baal, zeus, jupiter, isis, ramses, kim jong il, david koresh, charles manson, julius caeser, allah, krishna, vishnu, shiva, obama, totem poles, statues, etc., etc., etc.

Looks like the thread was hijacked by underage trolls with autism.

>>3701822
This thread is about autism.

>>3701822
how exactly can a thread about "i dunno" get hijacked?

Aaaaaaaand the thread has finally reached where all these threads go.

Thanks for playing folks! It's been a good ride, time to move on.

>>3701624
ok, if you were to see God the Father, you would instantly die

and the Holy Spirit is the thing that makes you realize what a piece of shit you can be from time to time

and it's not 1/3 - 1/3 - 1/3

it is Three in One

>>3700876

I consider myself as a non religious person in general.

I don't believe in organized religions, most of them disgust me, and I don't believe in people pretending to represent something supernatural, especially if they take money while doing it.

I don't even know why they talk about "God" with a male adjective. Why giving a gender to something it's not biological?

Btw, I'm still fascinated by persons like Buddha or Jesus, and I'd like to know more about what they did for real, and if they were really able to do some "special" things beyond their powerful words, whatever was the real origin of that.

I'm a rationalist and agnostic just because I don't know enough about the world where I live. Why that's "faggy" for you?

>>3701845
sounds like bull shit, are you bull shitting me?

>>3701723
>he didn't imply anything, just stated Buddha was a man, so you can not deny he existed.

he blatantly stated in the post before that budda was the one true god. What are you talking about?

>>3701867
Buddha is very much focused on the here and now. his teachings were intended to be used in this life. there is a vague promise that if you do it right, you will achieve enlightenment, whatever that may be. i have never seen anyone claim that they have achieved enlightenment.

Jesus preached more about heaven and hell and the Kingdom of Heaven; about the Fall and the need for a messiah, a savior, Him, in fact. He performed dozens of miracles, including turning water into wine; feeding thousands with a few loaves and fish; healing the blind, the lame, the crippled; walking on water; calming storms; raising the dead. for a grand finale, He predicted His own execution, and His resurrection from the grave on the third day. He placed all of His goodwill and credibility on the line, and delivered. raised from the dead on the third day, seen by hundreds afterwards, and ascended to heaven. Jesus said to believe in Him is to live forever with God in Heaven.

two completely different men, with two completely different philosophies, promising two completely different things.

>>3701845
Certainly an omnipotent being would be able to make it so one wouldn't die even if they see him, no?

>>3701893
>implying it was the same anonymous.

>>3701698
set yourself up to meet the person who said He created it and ask Him all the questions you want

>>3701893
actually, i said that Buddha never claimed to be God, and that Buddha is an example of a false god

if you follow Buddha, you'll end up where he is now; not a pretty picture

>>3701904
He did once; Moses asked to see Him, and God stuck Moses in a cleft in the rock, and let Moses see the trailing edge of His glory

Moses shone in the dark for weeks afterwards; people literally couldn't sleep around him so he veiled up

and yes, the human body 2.0 will be able not only to be with God, but to live with God, and, alternatively, to last for an eternity in a lake of fire

>>3701883
not at all. however, as much as i strive to tell the truth of Jesus Christ, to many it seems as though i am trolling for shits and giggles

i don't understand that

the level of sophistication i would have to have to invent a completely internally consistent falsehood is incomprehensible to me.

tl;dr i tell the truth, and they think i'm bullshitting

Is the idea of having a God a good idea?
You got to remember God bestowed earthly power to kings.
You can call me a liberal all you like but the idea of having king and queens that only God can judge sounds wrong to me.

If you want a god so much move back to England or live with the pope.

>>3700876
> Are you agnostic towards there being a monster in your closet?
Yep.
> I mean you can not be absolutely sure unless you check it.
But I don't have a believe that there is one, so I'm cool with that. That makes me a-closet-monsterist since I don't believe in it.
> Therefore you can not know if there is a monster in your closet.
I can be reasonably certain there isn't to the point where I don't base my life around fear of the closet monster.
> be an a̶t̶h̶e̶i̶s̶t gnostic atheist
If I were gnostic I'd actually have to prove there was no god using physical evidence. I don't think you can do that, brah.

>>3701935
> however, as much as i strive to tell the truth of Jesus Christ, to many it seems as though i am trolling for shits and giggles
>i don't understand that
Let me help you out there, brah. Religion is a form of trolling. When you tell your children an invisible sky daddy made the world in seven days, you're trolling them. When you tell unbelievers they're going to burn in infinite magic fire forever if they don't agree with your personal opinion, you're trolling. When you tell them your personal opinions are founded on a book that has hundreds of thousands of people getting different personal opinions from it and all using that same book interpreted however they like just like you've done, you're trolling. And you do it all for your own personal gratification, because praying for people to be saved is like masturbation, and saving the infidel from the terrible fate you imagined for and projected onto them is white knight porn.
So yeah, when you troll for shits and giggles, sometimes people call you on it.

>>3700902
lern 2 null hypothesis or gb2 >>>/x/

>>3701899

I think Jesus was a very intelligent and wise man who knew his own people. Then, IMHO he talked to them in a way they could understand what he meant.
When he talked about to follow him, I'm sure he intended in the way to live, following his teachings, and not worshiping his icon like people actually do today.

Same thing for Buddha, but they seems different in teachings because they lived in two different cultures and times, with two different personal backgrounds and talking to two different people.

I don't know if they did "miracles" or any uncommon stuff for real, I'd just like to know who they were with a logical and intelligent approach, and not just parroting some books.

>>3701991
so, in order to tear down my absolute truth, your notion that there is no God, and that all religion is bogus, has to be absolutely true.

and your evidence that God, and all that entails, is absolutely bogus, is your considered opinion, while mine rests on the Word of God.

so, who's trolling whom, again?

>>3701953
it's the way things are. and anyone who rules a kingdom has their heart in God's hands and gives up their free will. however, they are given the sword, so it is best not to mess with them.

christianity is more an underground movement deep in enemy territory than anything else; it is only when our Lord comes down to earth that He will head the world government. until then, we abide.

>>3702041
do yourself a favor and read the Gospel of John.

the words and works of Christ are powerful

buddha just had words, and personality. he was only a smart man; maybe even a wise man. but a man nonetheless

Jesus is the Son of God, and the Son of Man; dual natures; of God, and of Man. unique.

do some reading. you'll find it fascinating.

>>3702129
Now that's the spirit, champ!

How can we be sure the Christian bible is actually the word of the God, it might be written by the devil to fool us in to worshipping the wrong god, or worse still written by trollsand it just all lies!!!!!

>>3702150
I'm sorry, your Christology is in error. You are Heretic and damned.

>>3702041

Nope

He was a long shot

A premature gift to humanity, a perfect being that despite biologically being human had knowledge and charisma to teach us what others actually know - to work together and put humanity on a path to progress

We nailed him to a plank so they probably winced in disgust and just left

Earth is probably on the galactic shitlist

We can't even expect another gift like that, the elite is far too powerful nowadays and they somehow keep even the others at bay

but something's coming I assure you

god isn't in my closed you stupid dick
I checked right now

>>3700876
It is possible for me to check the closet and ascertain that no, there is, in fact, no monster in my closet. I don't need to be agnostic about claims regarding monsters and my closet because I can go fucking check. The claim is "falsifiable"-I can go to my closet, open it, peer in, perform experiments and determine that there isn't a monster there. The God claim is not falsifiable, there's no way to prove or disprove it. Therefore agnosticism is the only intellectually defensible position regarding God.

>>3702150

I'll do.. really. Thanks for the advice.
Btw, just for curiosity,
what's your opinion about churches (especially the Catholic one)?
What do you think about the way they live and the things their ancestors did for centuries pretending to act in the name of Jesus?
To my eyes, most of them (I'm talking about the high ranked ones, i.e. cardinals) are just like the Pharisees who wanted Jesus to die.

>>3701917
how do you know where's Buddha now?

>>3702212
what if the monster was hiding
or invisible, like god.

>>3702170
why not read it instead of making assumptions?

>>3702212
>implying visible monsters
>implying no multiverse
>implying monster wasn't on bathroom break at the time

<--This

>>3702233
i have read it. but there is nothing other than the book it self to confirm it is the word of god.
the book could very easily be wrong

>>3702219
i don't know where buddha is now. however, there are two eternal destinations, and belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God is necessary for entry into heaven. i cannot find any expression of such belief from the buddha. while it is unkempt for one man to judge another man's servants, i think i am on solid ground that buddha is awaiting eternal damnation, his idea of enlightenment and oneness with the universe but wishful thinking.

I am agnostic about a LOT of stuff.
Some people seem to assume that cavemen understood 5% of the universe and we understand 95%.
I suspect that if they understood 5% we understand 10%.

>open closet
>weird ass triangle with an eye just sitting there, doing nothing
>NOPE

I didn't read the thread I would just like to say that not believing in religion doesn't have to mean that you don't believe in a force/being creating the universe.

believing in something doesn't make it real

>>3702219
there is only one church, started by Jesus Christ, and it spans all denominations, and even supposedly non-christians. its characteristic is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and its numbers are unknown.

many who think they are in it are not. a few who might not think they are in it actually are.

that is the only church worth belonging to; the bride of Christ, the body of believers. everything else is for fellowship and support.

i believe the roman catholic church wil be the whore of babylon

>>3702251
in what sense?

>>3702334
in the sense it was written by a fruit loop.
take scientology as a modern example.

>>3702268
I'm pretty sure the extent to which we currently understand the universe is somewhat more than twice that of prehistoric man.

>>3702251
you read a book that accurately predicted over 300 things about a coming messiah and that didn't persuade you that there was something supernatural about it?

i call bullshit

>>3702268
osama bin laden was a cave man

a lot of people live in caves today

and yes, they probably knew things we don't know, and we know things they couldn't know

but at the end of the day, it still all resolves around the eternal question posed by pontius pilate:

what am i to do with this Jesus of Nazareth?

>>3702295
saying something doesn't real doesn't make it so either

>>3702342
man I don't even know if you're trolling or actually believe what you are saying.

Like everything else in life, you get a grasp on something then proceed with caution. You don't sit at the entrance expecting an answer that's at the end of the tunnel.

>>3702254

I think that the concepts of Nirvana and Samsara can be related with Heaven and.. I'd say Purgatory.
Until you don't reach enlightenment you must reincarnate and eventually face all the difficulties and tribulations of life.

Also, there's a figure in Buddhism called Bodhisattva who is basically a "enlightened" that continue to reincarnate to benefit other people, helping them to reach enlightenment.

Btw at Buddha's times Jesus wasn't born. How can someone be condemned if he/she couldn't even know about him?

>>3702347
My percentages are arbitrary examples of course but how can you assume there is not a lot more we have not even touched on yet?
Since we know light exists we build instruments to measure the rest of the EM spectrum we don't see. But you have to be assuming that there is not a whole lot of other phenomena out that that we don't even look for because we don't know to look for it.

>>3702348
or did the they just fit the messiah to the predictions?
The old testament was written a long time before Jesus, so they already new what the messiah was meant to do, the new testament was written a very long time after Jesus when there was no eye witness left.
They could of very easily elaborated on Jesus life to fit predictions and tern him into a messiah.

>>3700884
I'd rather people take the apatheist title.

>>3702347
then how did the persian wise men know that Jesus had been born by charting a new star in the Israel King sector?

they knew that by studying the heavens

how many people today could say, hey, there's a new star, and it's in the Israel King position, so a new King of the Jews must have been born?

and be right?

no, don't let technology get you conceited. we have lost much.

>>3700901
>Antitheism

>>3702404

Dude, it's called 'looking at the sky'. We have telescopes now. We can look at the sky in far greater detail.

>>3702390
interesting point. i've dug into it.

Jesus said, if you believe Moses and the prophets, you believe in Me, because they spoke of Me

if you believe in the one true God, you're in. if not, you're out.

and now that we do know about Jesus being the messiah, believing in Him is the only way to get to heaven.

none of the wishful thinking do-it-until-you-get-it-right bs that, if you think about it for a second, requires you to eventually become perfect. on your own.

if you could be perfect on your own, Jesus died for nothing.

>>3702392
i believe there is a wealth of information about this universe that we will never know, because it is slated for destruction soon. the entire universe. in one tremendous explosion, with all of the elements melting from the fervent heat.

and we know very little of the next world, heaven and hell, except that heaven is where God is, and hell is where satan is, and that you get to choose which place you end up in

>The bible is the word of God.
>The universe is the creation of God.

the Universe contradicts the bible..

> The bible is blasphemy towards God.

> The universe is the only true "holy book"
> Science is the tool to read it.
> Nature is God.

>>3702399
how would that be possible?

oh, i see; if you assume Jesus never existed, that He was a patchwork quilt of self-fulfilling prophecies, then you can assume that everything He fulfilled was done retroactively.

as soon as you realize that He's a real, historical figure, that kind of falls apart. how do you choose to be born of the line of David? and 299 other prophecies, including being born of a virgin...

>>3702422
so, modern astronomers could predict the day Jesus was born in Betheleham if it happened today?

don't be obtuse. wouldn't happen.

and yet, those eastern wise men did just that, without telescopes, computers, and observatories.

>>3702325
>>3702325
Can The Holy spirit dwell in a 'Christian' denomination that doesn't even acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God?

>>3702441
you can worship the creation; the master race will be worshipping the Creator

everything you love about creation was done by a guy i get to talk to erryday, and one day, face to face.

i sure hope you guys are doing this too

>>3702455
it's done on an individual by individual basis; if a buddhist believes that Jesus is the messiah, and that God raised Him from the dead, that buddhist will be saved.

but no, the Holy Spirit will never contradict Jesus Christ, and the only way to actually discern between the Holy Spirit and evil spirits is to ask them if Jesus came in the flesh to die for our sins. the Holy Spirit will say yes; the evil spirits cannot.

There is probably no valid position other than uncertainty of everything.

There is nothing that says that you must know things with certainty, or that the value of a thing known is proportionate to the certainty at which you know it.

Just accept that you dont know and seek knowledge not with the intention of finding how things are, as this will most likely be futile, but with the purpose of finding how they could be.

Knowing how things could be is very useful. Knowing all the ways things could be may even turn out to be more useful than knowing how they actually are, assuming we ever do, which seems unlikely. Because if you know all the way something could be you can recognize it no matter how it is. If you only know one way then you are blind to every other possibility.

Believing you have found an answer is the same as never looking for the answer to start with.

>>3702426
I guess jesus was confident in the people who wrote the bible aswell. They really fucked him over I guess, just started straigth out lying and making stuff up about our earth, wich probably makes most of it bullshit.

Also, there is a theory where jesus actually was a buddhist monk, or atleast he had been thaugth buddhism.

Wait and again, there is only one true God, if you believe in the wrong one, you are out rigth?

Well, jesus, the bible, etc, IS THE HOLY COW.

Nature and science is the only "God" wich does not appear to be ridicoules (not impossible).

Bampbamp.
Jesus was my hero while growing up though, nice free babysitter, good values etc. Total bullshit.

>>3702342
in comparing counterfeit to genuine, you must be familiar with the genuine first

then the counterfeit stands out plainly

scientology is more for people that do not want to see a shrink, but do want to receive emotional and psychological assistance, as well as self-empowering dogma

Yes, yes I am.

I'm seriously considering the possibility of the existence of a god.

Atheism and agnosticism aren't mutually exclusie

Look at all the religious fags in here... and even worse, fags who 'don't know if they believe'
glad i'm not a NORTH AMERICAN.
enjoy fearing GOD!
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOOLOL9020P

>>3702441
the creation in no way contradicts the Creator, except to the extent that you believe the father of lies, and are deceived

>>3702473
enlightened
>are you a buddhist.jpg

Also the religious guy is like 3/10 persistant troll so ignore him, no one believes in christ on /sci/. but he bumps good

>>3702473
Whorshipping? You're doing it wrong.

>Think it's amazing
>Enjoy it.
>Not dellusional bordeline psychotic.

6,5/10

>>3702473
there are many ways that seem right to a man, but they all end in death

it is logical to take God at His Word, and once you are aware of His Word, you would be wise to repent, be saved, and obey Him

The book of Mormon.
why isn't this included in the bible, it is clearly the work of God, as it says so in side... just like the bible.

>>3702497
What is this "father of lies".
More importantly what is it's purpose?

Can any christians tell me where the flesh body of Jesus is right now? As you know, Jesus died and came back to life in the flesh. Then he rose, in the flesh into heaven. So technically speaking, the flesh, blood and bone body of Jesus Christ is outer space right now.

>>3702467
>if a buddhist believes that Jesus is the messiah, and that God raised Him from the dead, that buddhist will be saved.
Can that person still remain a buddhist afterwards?

thats what Apollo 18 is all about.

>>3702520
IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE I EXIST, BUT YOU FOLLOW ALL MY RULES SPOT ON.

I WILL BURN AND TORTURE YOU FOR ETERNITY!

FOR I AM YOUR LOVING GOD.

j/k. Thats the Devil. Dont know what the fuck that is though. A part of me? A second God?!!?!
Obviously i created him, TO RAPE YOU DEAD.
Because... w h a t would life be without bad awful work of the devil?

>>3702529
oops
>>3702540

>>3702476
the Holy Spirit inspired the scriptures; the father of lies attacks them

whom do you serve?

>>3702520
do in depth research on Mormonism and you'll know it has nothing to do with the bible.

>>3702492
seek Jesus, and you will find Him; ask Him to prove Himself to you, and He will

it's not about "god"; it's about Jesus

>>3702492
+12.
You are truly agnostic. And not just a kid with autism caugth up with the definition of words.

>>3702521
>>3702521
>What is this "father of lies".
>More importantly what is it's purpose?

>John 10:10
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.

>>3702506
anything under 200 posts is a bad day

would it do any good to affirm that this is what i actually believe and know to be true?

if so, i do so affirm. 100% sold out christfag, hoping to bring some /b/ro's to the truth before it's too late

>>3702547
that is so paranoid, it would mean life is one big lie (not to mention the entirety of science). the devil would be the greatest troll

>>3702544
so much mad

>>3702551
>do in depth research on Mormonism
That Is not something I would be proud of...

>>3702520
if any one teaches you another gospel, whether it be from man or angel (including obviously fallen angels, i.e. devils and satan), shun them, for they worship the father of lies

is it really surprising that satan would establish anti-Jesus religions, especially when they successfully deceive the majority of human beings into accompanying him into hell?

you have an enemy, an accuser, who roams the earth as a hungry lion, seeking those he can devour.

>>3702566
>the devil would be the greatest troll
why is that hard to believe?

>>3702556
I am seeking Jesus. Where is his body?

>>3702521
lucifer, satan, the great dragon, the father of lies; all the same angel

an angel that led a failed coup in heaven, and was cast to earth.

he hates you. us. God. everything. and in his hatred, he destroys. lies. kills. steals. blasphemes. sets himself up as god.

his time is coming, and soon; then he will be bound for 1000 years; then he will be let loose, but will be quickly defeated, and thrown into hell, forever.

and this will begin eternity.

>>3702571
It would answer your question. Do you just ask questions without expecting any answers? Where is the logic in that?

Kids are so dumb these days, they read one book, the bible and believe it.
I remember when I was young I just wanted to question everything and find all the answers for myself.
I know thy say generations are getting dumber but I never realised the extent.

>>3702529
the body of Christ has been changed, transformed, into what i lovingly call human 2.0. this body is spectacular; it can fly, eat, drink, walk through objects, it will never experience pain, or sorrow, or death; it is the body we need to survive meeting God Himself.

Jesus has a body. He's in it right now, at the right hand of God the Father. the Holy Spirit is the part of the triune entity that convicts you of your sin, convinces you of His mercy, saves you by His grace, and indwells you through your permission.

>>3702531
you can get kicked out of buddhism? that would be kind of funny. the real question is, would you want to stay, when you know the truth?

>>3702591
>the great dragon
so satin was a dinosaur?
Does that mean he is dead now, as all dinosaurs are fossils.

>>3702544
it would be like the Garden of Eden before the fall, and, much better, like the new heaven and the new earth, crowned by the new Jerusalem.

i'm going to be there.

are you?

Agnostic is not about certainty of equal possibilities its about uncertainty of either possibilities.

>>3702602
The bible doesn't say his body changed into something else. If the bible is to be believed, his body must still exist.

>>3702567
Enthusiastic.

not that i do not think the "religious" guys in theese threads aren't actually serious. Not trolls, but having fun.

>>3702551
indeed. it is a shame so many nice people are so close to knowing the true Jesus, but falling for the counterfeit false "brother of lucifer" instead.

like the masons. the higher up you go, the more you worship satan.

>>3702615
10/10

Who the fuck would think that?

>>3702591
Are you aware the fallen angel Lucifer (the morning star) was in the old testament and many jewish scriptures? Are you also aware none of these call him the devil or satan? Satan and Hell, along with the Rapture later, is just a marketing scheme.

>>3702566
it is only the revelation of the dialectic nature of this universe

you are either with Jesus, or you are against Him

and you can be against Him in ever so many ways; straight out satan worship is probably the least likely candidate. allah, buddha and krishna are the broad road to destruction.

narrow is the way to salvation, and few who find it.

is it a sin to pray before having sex?

>>3702591
why did God create him?

>>3702587
He sits at the right hand of God in heaven; however, the heaven He is in is closer to you than you think. it is not outside of our universe; it overlaps it.

He's within arm's reach. He's within talking distance. He's not deaf, nor has His arm grown weak. He can hear you, and reach out to you, right now, right where you are.

all you have to do is ask; repent, and be saved

>>3702644
God has hands? How many?

>>3702644
>He sits at the right hand of God in heaven
(John 4:24), and so His appearance is not like anything we can describe.
how is that possible?

>>3702611
satan will never die; he, like you, is eternal; created that way, to worship God

satan chose to worship himself, and place himself above God; to be God. the price for that rebellion is eternal damnation in a lake of fire.

you have the choice of believing that Jesus is the Son of God, and God, and that God raised Him from the dead, or not.

and by so choosing, choose your eternal destination. Jesus stands holding good and life; satan offers evil and death. choose good and life, and be blessed, forever, beyond your fondest dreams.

hell was not made for you

>>3702644
So Jesus will appear in the flesh if I repent? How do I repent and what do I repent, because I'd like to meet Jesus and shake his hand in the flesh.

do you think Jesus ever got freaky with those holes in his hands...
BET-IT-FEELS-SO-GOOD.xxx

>>3702619
it does. and it certainly does say it was changed; He forbid a woman to touch Him right after He was raised, as He had not yet been perfected.

His body is right where He said it is; in Heaven

He's coming back soon, in His body, to rule the earth for 1000 years. you won't miss the second coming.

i'm here to tell you not to miss the rapture of the saints (believers), because all hell is about to break loose.

When I meet Jesus, how should I act? I don't want to offend him. I hear Jesus doesn't like cameras and no photos of him exist. But he does like to be eaten and wants me to drink his blood. I don't really want to drink his blood.

>>3702621
i couldn't be more serious spread on a rack with hot pokers through my ballsack

>>3702648
two

>>3702699
(John 4:24), and so His appearance is not like anything we can describe.
>hands?!

>>3702653
because it is malleable; He appeared to people who knew Him, and they did not recognize Him until He wanted them to

and He walked through walls, and ascended into the clouds

and He's promised to transform us in like manner, to be heirs with Him, to all the goodness in the universe, and none of the evil.

>>3702672
Jesus appeared to Thomas, who famously said he would not believe that Jesus was raised from the dead until he put his fingers in the holes in His hands, and in His feet, and in His side.

when confronted by the risen Christ, of course, he did no such thing, but fell on his face, worshipping Jesus

Jesus said to Thomas, you have seen Me and believed; blessed are they who have not seen, and yet believe

when you are serious, you will be in the second group. by the time you see Him, it will be too late to do you any good.

>>3702684
i often wondered if Jesus ever had a wet dream, or rubbed one out, but who asks another man that?

>>3702692
you will fall on your face and worship Him

if you are saved prior to meeting Him, you will fall on your face worshipping Him

if you are damned by the time you meet Him, you will fall on your face worshipping Him

don't sweat the protocol; sweat the destination

I dunno, man. I really don't want to touch his gaping holes or be washed in the blood of the Lamb. It sounds kind of icky.

>>3702692
yea, His flesh is bread indeed, and His blood is drink indeed, and if you do not eat of His flesh, and drink of His blood, you have no part in Him, and are damned.

many people turned away when Jesus preached that; it's not the sort of thing that calls out "i'm sane"

and yet, somehow, it's true. i must have eaten His flesh, and drunk His blood, for i am saved.

>>3702727
doubt they're gaping holes, or even permanent. after all, He didn't retain the beating they put on His face, or the scraps of flesh left on His back after the flogging.

so human body 2.0 can shape itself into what it wants. i can hardly wait; it's going to be epic

I can't believe Jesus spent all that time with a hooker and never tried it on.
must be gay.

>>3702737
if He is gay, heaven will be empty, and hell will be full

>>3702747
that would explain why all the priest like boys, religion really doesn't have anything to evoultion does it.

>>3702799
forcing men to forsake the touch of a woman is wrong

joining the clergy in a failed attempt to control your own same-sex urges is wrong

telling your sins to a child molester, and thinking that will save your soul, is wrong

>>3702640
to worship God and increase God's glory. God created him good; he was the most beautiful of all the angels. but he turned against God, and was no longer good, but chose disobedience, pride, and power instead.

he lost.

and in losing, seeks to drag as many of God's creations, you, down to hell with him for, after all, misery does love company