/sci/ - Science & Math

>Ur chosen for weapons purposes
>Th solves virtually all current problems

Yeah you've got jack shit, OP. Educate yourself.

>>3695394
I have learned enough to know that even the few incidents that do occur are of such a high magnitude in danger that they eclipse any danger caused by similar incidents from other forms of energy.

The only two forms that can cause as great or worse ecological destruction are oil, and hydroelectric.

Face the facts: nuclear power is finished.

So hippie we should just shutdown the nuclear reactors? Okay no problem. No electricity for you ever again how does that sound? Not that bad?

You are just like fucking piece of shit hippies who protest against wars in vietnam, iraq, and don't realize the food they eat everyday is provided by those wars.

>>3695419
>war in iraq is the only reason americans have food
Oh.. Okay.

>>3695419
>So hippie we should just shutdown the nuclear reactors? Okay no problem. No electricity for you ever again how does that sound? Not that bad?
First of all, people got along just fine even before electricity, so it wouldn't be the apocalypse. Secondly, there are literally dozens, if not hundreds of alternative sources of power, many of them renewable.
>You are just like fucking piece of shit hippies who protest against wars in vietnam, iraq, and don't realize the food they eat everyday is provided by those wars.
I don't even know how to react to that, it's so obviously wrong.

Fukashima, like every other NPP that has gone wrong, was outdated and shitty. If dipshits didn't stop the progress and research that would develop safer nuclear power, Japan, Chernobyl, Three Mile Island wouldn't have happened. Those people who go on about how nuclear power is dangerous and eats children are the root cause of nuclear power being dangerous and eating children.

Sage for troll thread.

>>3695419
>Food provided by vietnam and iraq
Wat
What is this I don't even
9/10, I raged hard at that subtly placed stupid

>>3695419
7/10

>>3695394
>implying thorium is used
The problem with nuclear power is not the theory, it's the implementation.

So hippie we should just shutdown the nuclear reactors? Okay no problem. No electricity for you ever again how does that sound? Not that bad?

You are just like fucking piece of shit hippies who protest against wars in vietnam, iraq, and don't realize the food they eat everyday is provided by those wars.

ITT: Faggots who don't know about free energy devices.

I hadn't heard of thorium reactors. So some good has come from this thread.

Gives you a warm, glowing feeling inside.

>>3695450
>Tepco is good, environmentalists are evil and responsible for everything !

>>3695484
I get it!
Glowing!
Like nuclear stuff!
Because radioactive!

Switch to thorium. Work on that fusion. Introduce breeder reactors.

The main problem with nuclear tech is that the industry has been reluctant to introduce new technologies. For such a great potential, I am surprised that we cut back on breeders in the 70's despite their usefulness and that we aren't utilising thorium, now that we need less and less weapon-grade material.

The newest generation IV reactors do not require a coolant or electrical source to maintain stability. If a Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor or Integral Fast Reactor suffer from a tsunami they won't melt down when electricity is knocked out or coolant disrupted because they are self-regulating due to passive cooling nature of the core.

Plus, reactors like the IFR can use nuclear waste as fuel, solving yet another faux problem with environmentalists.

>implying that nuclear energy is dangerous

nuclear kills .04 people / Terrawatt-hour due to operation and accidents. This is solid fuel uranium electricity, which has a small possibility of melt down.

Coal kills 161 per terrawatt-hour(average between countries in the world) due to operation and accidents.

Coal is just over 4000 times as deadly per unit energy produced. since the world only needs a certain ammount of power at any given time, it's safer to fill the entire demand of energy with nuclear power than it is with coal power.
(Also no CO2 emissions)

The number of deaths by nuclear plants could be significantly decreased by using Liquid Flourine Thorium Reactors:
-The fuel is already molten, so there's no possibility of a "meltdown event."
-in the case of an emergency, and the fuel heats up too much, a freeze plug opens and can drain the fuel from the system into storage tanks where the fuel will solidify and cease useful heat production.
-once the emergency is over, the fuel can be reheated in order to start the plant back up.
-also, the fuel is fucking everywhere. EVERYWHERE. ITS IN MY DAMN CEREAL.

in short
Furkayoo
Furkayomuddah
and LFTR/nuclear for the win.

u guys dont realize that this was a result of HAARP.

Drive down yen, increase dollar.

Hey guys, if nuclear is so safe, how about you volunteer to use your homes as storage for barrels of nuclear waste?
It's so clean and safe, what's the worst that could happen?

Energy Source - Death Rate (deaths per TWh)

Coal - 161
Oil - 36
Biofuel/Biomass - 12
Peat - 12
Natural Gas - 4
Hydro - 1.4
Solar - 0.44
Wind - 0.15
Nuclear - 0.04

Seems pretty safe to me.

Actually, as it turns out, 0 people died because of the Fukushima accident. Reports say 37 people suffered physical injuries and 2 workers were taken to hospital with radiation burns.

Problem, hippies?

>>3695780

except you figures are nonsense.. because you don't have accurate figures for the deaths associated with processing Uranium.. because guess what the processors also process.... weapons grade....CLASSIFIED.

>>3695683
ok i will, give me some faggot
Fuck tha police
Comin straight from the underground
Young nigga got it bad cuz I'm brown
And not the other color so police think
They have the authority to kill a minority

Fuck that shit, cuz I ain't tha one
For a punk muthafucka with a badge and a gun
To be beatin on, and throwin in jail
We could go toe to toe in the middle of a cell

Fuckin with me cuz I'm a teenager
With a little bit of gold and a pager
Searchin my car, lookin for the product
Thinkin every nigga is sellin narcotics

You'd rather see me in the pen
Then me and Lorenzo rollin in the Benzo
Beat tha police outta shape
And when I'm finished, bring the yellow tape
To tape off the scene of the slaughter
Still can't swallow bread and water

I don't know if they fags or what
Search a nigga down and grabbin his nuts
And on the other hand, without a gun they can't get none
But don't let it be a black and a white one
Cuz they slam ya down to the street top
Black police showin out for the white cop

Ice Cube will swarm
On any muthafucka in a blue uniform
Just cuz I'm from the CPT, punk police are afraid of me
A young nigga on a warpath
And when I'm finished, it's gonna be a bloodbath
Of cops, dyin in LA
Yo Dre, I got somethin to say

>>3695815
This.

250 people died from the Chernobyl accident and that was because the accident was forced and people didn't even know the dangers of radiation.

What makes me pause is that people have no considerable grasp of what radiation even is.

Radiation is not some toxic death cloud that causes mutations and cancer from a single touch.

The radiation released from Fukushima is, effectively, harmless. You might get some lung cancer if you breathe in the radioactive dust for the next five years straight. With every breath. Never cleaning up.

>>3695475
>>3695459
>>3695451
>>3695448
>>3695443


mfw when i got an 7/10 , 9/10 , and a meme inception attempt


u mad hippies? you want energy? No energy like oil from fields of iraq and lybia
Nuclear bomb plants are the best source of electrical energy.

>>3695839
Let's just forget about the radioactive cloud and the thousands of cancer cases it caused not to mention other health-related issues. Yeah, let's just count the short-term effects directly connected. Sounds totally unbiased.

I'm still totally pro nuclear.

>>3695882

Yes, let's, because COAL HAS CAUSED MORE CANCER AND DEATH ANYWAY.

Has everyone forgotten the BP oil spill? You know, the thing that WASN'T caused by a history-making earthquake and tsunami double punch?

Why are you turds arguing this? The coal is soon to perish, and so we will have no other option than nuclear, since renewable energy sources at this time of technological achievement don't meet the potenial not even remotely close to needed to replace coal made energy. And they won't in the next 50 years for sure, while coal might perish in 50 years.

deal with it hippies nuclear is our only option

>>3695882
[citation needed]

>>3695914
Oh come on you thickheaded dunce

>>3695898
Not saying it didn't, but how would you react if the only deaths from coal I would count would be miners who were killed in the mines? I'm pro nuclear, but you're biased in what you're saying. That's not scientific. That's fundamentalist territory.

>>3695914
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster_effects
Yes most of the studies have controversy attached to them, but the effect of such a disaster is still somewhat more than just the people who were directly killed by the whole thing. There's still the whole environmental impact to consider. No, I'm not a fuckign treehugger.

>>3695935

>but how would you react if the only deaths from coal I would count would be miners who were killed in the mines?

Then we're still in the lead, here.

>>3695448
It's not like the world completely changed because of oil and electricity. It's not like the infrastructure would be fucked without it. It's not like there would be massive starvation because of no electricity. It's not like your health would be far worse because of advancements of modern medicine that would disappear without electrity.

No comment on the wars. I'm not from the US so the only thing those gave me were higher gas prices.

>>3695944
That's not the point I'm trying to make. You fail at reading comprehension, scientific reasoning or are a troll. If it's the latter I'm somewhat impressed.
I'm just advocating accurate data and not cherry picking it, no matter the case.

>>3695947

>It's not like there would be massive starvation because of no electricity

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>3695969
It's not like there's any electricity involved in growing or transporting that stuff right?

ITT:

> we need to end nuclear

Why?

> because commies fucked it up once

That sounds like a good reason to keep it.

> but... but.... i don't personally like nuclear

Oh, so it isn't based upon any scientific, rational, or reasonable logic?

> u raciss and n evil capitalist

Sigh.

>>3695973

You seem to have forgotten the concept of irrigation.

And technically, without oil is to be without gasoline, which is to be without transportation.

>>3695876
Except that the 7 9 and meme ignition gambit were all samefagged by you

>>3695983
I'm sure without oil or electricity it would be no problem to, say, completely reform our entire agricultural industry. And there won't be a problem transporting the foodstuffs from agricultural centers to the cities, right? We can do it using donkey carts! Yes, I'm sure that's the way it can be easily done for every multi-million metropolis on the planet, no problem.

>>3696003

>I'm sure without oil or electricity it would be no problem to, say, completely reform our entire agricultural industry

(e^i*(pi))/10

>>3696013
Wait, I was being ironic and facetious. Are you the hippienoelectricity guy I was mocking?

The current nuclear power programs are just veneers for nuclear weapons programs. The fact is, Th would do the job a whole lot better, and would produce far less durable waste. Only problem is, you can't make bombs out of it. So until you can, uranium is completely safe, too cheap to meter, and if you think it's dangerous, you're a hippie freak and stfu, kkthxbye.

Nobody ever has a sense of scale with npp disasters, they just hear about exclusions zones and think Chernobyl.

The real exclusion zone should only be about 4km by now. The rest is just government paranoia. And kneejerk to the highest degree

However nobody pays attention to the experts telling everyone to shut up, they pay attention to the fucks like kaku telling everyone to panic

>>3696090
No, using npps for bombs had been an absolete venture since the wall fell.

Light water reactors are still around because they're very well understood, well designed, and reliable.

Lftr can be even better but someone needs to take a first step, in an economic climate where "risk" is a dirty word

>>3696104
Surprise, surprise. Uneducated masses convinced by sensationalist media. Not like that happens all the fucking time because lolmoney.

>>3695373
This is an extraordinary occurrence. Earthquakes and tsunamis would fuck up wind turbines, too.

>This thread

>>3696128
So why not use Th? You believe that there arena more nukes being made? lol.

>>3696168
Because we'd need to spend a lot of cash on developing functioning technology. I think that's actually one of the main things Bill Gates is doing now - looking for funding for Th reactor technology and actual plants.

>>3695419

>Implying America's wealthiest period wasn't during the 20s, when they wasn't yet WorldPoliceFuckYeah.

>>3695815
we'll see it in the next 50 years, sadly.

HEY, I GOT A QUESTION

MY GIRLFRIEND JUST LEFT FOR JAPAN SHE IS SOMEWHERE CALED FUKUI FUKUI or SOMETHING LIKE THAT. IS SHE GONNA GET RADIATON POISONING?

JUST WONDERING

>>3695683
I'd volunteer.
Fuel rod casks are rock god damn solid, son.

>>3696168
Oh no, go go thorium hell yeah
I'm just saying why getting it off the ground is going to be troublesome in an economic sense.

>>3696191
She's probably already dead.

>>3696168
Are you a dumbass? Did you even read that post?

We already HAVE light water reactors. We have a workforce that is familiar with it and we are fairly experienced with them and how to deal with their problems.

Thorium would take a MASSIVE investment and retraining the workforce. Shitload of money.

>>3695815
That radiation burn thing was overblown. The guys working in the basement wore incorrect boots and got too much beta exposure on their ankles in that water.

They showed very slight symptoms and got fucking rocketed to the local hospital, fed awesome hot meals and slept all they wanted for like three days and they were right as rain afterwards.
They mit have been kind of quesy the first night now

>>3696216
How about the costs?

Nuclear plants are cool, they were in Fallout and shit.

>>3696216

>building enough solar panels to cover spain

Yeah, this will be quite easy and safe

managing it will be a breeze too

>>3696216
That "info"graphic is shitty and pointless, characteristic of hippies who are out of touch with reality. The surface area used is irrelevent, people care about the expense and feasibility of the industry and it's many facets.

>>3696229
nothing much, just need enough solar cells to cover 1/18 of the sahara's land area

The funny thing about this is that coal fueled power plants give of much more radioactive material into the environment than actual nuclear power plants.

>>3696216
I'm laughing at how retarded the maker of this image really is. Does he realize just how large those land areas actually are? What is his thought process?
>durr these areas look so small compared to the rest of the world lol guess it's nto taht much!~! we can do it!

How do you even maintain nearly 500,000 square km of solar panels?

>>3696302
It would definitely have to be decentralized. Which would require homeowners and businesses buying them out of economic pragmatism when the technology improves in efficiency or when oil/electricity becomes even more fucking expensive.

>>3696251

>implying there are only photo-voltaic panels
>implying no thermodynamic solar and no Stirling engines
>implying this isn't just a simple example and that there will be not a lot of new solar powered and more low power consumption devices

>>3696352

I forgot "solar powered houses"

>>3696281
citation needed

>>3696206
Its all about damage limitation IMHO. Humanity will not discover the true cost of nuclear, that is to say the cost of stockpiling nuclear waste Over hundreds of thousands of years. Politicians aren't very good at longterm.

>>3696302
five hundred thousand people

>>3696216

hm.. I thought it would be far less.. fuck solar

>>3696352
Solar's kind of over hopeful in terms of space efficiency. Home owners don't really want a fucking huge prabolic motherfucker in their yard. Even straight up panels are a stretch at times.

I'm kind of disinterested in solar ATM. Call me back when photovoltaic efficiency is upwards of %30 for the cheapo panels

>2011
>not pushing for space-based solar power

I seriously hope, etc.

>>3696216
Does this take the infrastructure necessary for power transmission (and the efficiency losses) into account?

>>3696388
That's why we built the Yucca Mountain nuclear waste repository, which is safely in the middle of fucking nowhere.

Also Integral Fast Reactors use nuclear waste as fuel at 100 times the efficiency of old Light Water Reactors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integral_Fast_Reactor#Nuclear_waste

>>3696362

the "nuclear elite's bootlickers journal"

>>3696407
What's the cost?

>>3696414
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste

Also I'm filtering you for being an annoying and ignorant tripfag.

>>3696420
Excellent question. The truth is, depends on who you ask. Obviously there is the cost of manufacturing and launching the array (expensive with current methods) and then there is the cost of maintaining the array once it gets up there. It all comes down to the quality of the tech.

That said, I believe Japan plunked down the money to get one of these bad boys started in 2030, so they saw some merit there at least.

>>3696450
How is power transmitted from the arrays to the surface, and how efficient is this transmission?

>>3696468
probably a microwave beam

>>3696404

>implying someone was talking about that fucking coal

>>3696410
Of course it doesn't, if whoever made it had the intelligence to do so they would have recognized that there are far more important factors than the space used and not bothered making such a poor argument.

>>3695935
>evironmental impact.
If you are a deer or a boar Chernobyl is the best place to be.
Humans are a bigger danger than radiation to a lot animals.

>>3696433

>implying someone was talking about that fucking coal

>>3695373
> Don't worry guys, nuclear power is completely 100% safe.
There is no possible way to get rid of the basic risks. Either you rely on private industry, which puts profits over safety, or you rely on government, which puts politics over safety, or you rely on a hybrid of both systems, which puts BOTH profits and politics over safety.

>>3696510
True, although there's no good way to measure the amount of deformed animals are born (or even how many there are). They do get freedom to do as they like however and have short enough lifespans in a lot of cases that cancer isn't a huge issue. Radiation is mostly bad for larger, more infrequently reproducing creature... like humans.

>>3696404

Actually a lot of people installed panels in their houses and there's a lot of genuine interest in green energies.

Also, a better thermal insulation of houses and the use of of Led as the main light source, not only at home but also in streets would reduce a lot the power consumption, and that's just a example.

We could invest in that things instead of spending a shitload of money for new nuclear plants.

>>3696560
>Actually a lot of people installed panels in their houses
And some were unlucky fell and broke their neck.
This causes more deaths than nuclear energy.(Could someone link that newsarticle to verify this)

>>3695516
[fuel input per gigawatt output] = kg
watch your units man

>>3696560
What happens at the times when solar is underproducing, such as at night and on overcast days? Is previously-stored energy used to make up the deficit or is there a reliance on baseload power sources?

>>3696536 True, although there's no good way to measure the amount of deformed animals are born

There is, and there are even better ways of looking at genetic damage in a population. The amazing thing is that the evidence from animals in the Chernobyl exclusion zone is that their levels of genetic damage all point to us having vastly overestimated the risks from radiation (LNT).

>>3696583

Here in Italy there was state funds to let people install solar panels in their homes.
The people who applied to it will pay off the money borrowed selling the exceeding energy to the electricity network.

If they can do this, I guess they can store enough energy for the night.

Who's to say Japan isn't better off?

>>3696617
Undoubtedly they can - but are they doing it, or relying on other sources for backup?

>>3695373 The type of reactor at Fukushima, ocean water cooled type, was designed as such because it is low cost to use the ocean water. So the design was duplicated and now there are 100s of these reactors around the world, in places like Pakistan and India. In addition, the nuclear waste from these reactors is highly poisonous and a sought-after ingredient for dirty bombs and warheads. So we have ringed the planet with bomb factories that are susceptible to uncontrollable geological/hydrological events. Way to go people. Good job. In one generation, millions of years of evolution to create modern human beings and you poison the planet. Its called "Pandora's Box" cause Pandora bitch-slaps you when you open it and WE OPENED IT

>>3696626

honestly I don't know, I'll ask it to a friend who have panels installed.

>>3695865
what i don't like about this chart is that he mixes radiation/hour, radiation/year and absolute radiation values.

>>3696560
i would be incredibly un surprised if the cost to make a full conversion to solar power and LEDs is more expensive than just putting in more nuclear power plants

infrastructure changes are expensive, and difficult to force without the costs rocketing upwards

>>3696641
i want to strangle you so badly right now.

>>3696641
>you know even less about mythology than you do about nuclear power

>>3696805
oh wow i didn't catch that.
pandora slaps you when you open the box right, she isn't the one tempted to open it? i mean, who ever heard of a story like THAT

>>3696790

>mfw led lamps are widely available in the common consumers market today, and the ask is expected to rise.

about 80% energy saving
very long lifespan

why don't you start to take some of it instead of telling people on the internet you want to strangle them?

>>3695373
>You people are just nutty, nuclear incidents are a thing of the past!

You're absolutely right, which is why the 40 year old reactors in japan went to shit.

>>3695979
known conservatroll
and 3/10 for you:
>>3695419
>>3695448
Your redstate is spot-on, but what fails is how obvious it is to anyone who has politrolled the tubes.
Try for "subtle"

>>3696641

cool. now do the one about vaccines

>>3696864
yes, they're great, but you're basically asking every household to switch to them over the next few years

that's like asking everyone to update to windows 7 as soon as it comes out. it will never happen

it'll change, it just takes time.

>>3696899

OK so hippie arguments are dumb, but would you care to provide your sound evidence to back up OP?