/sci/ - Science & Math

Fuck off, back in line.

There is no purpose, just try to enjoy the experience.... though it's really hard to do that these days.

I don't get the whole need for purpose thing. Life is a blast. Stop bitching and enjoy it.

if i die i have nothing, so i'll live
while i live i prefer pleasure to pain, so i'll seek pleasure
Pleasure is not sustainable, it requires backing, so i'll get a job

I tell you man, if i could sit at home, eat mcdonalds, smoke weed and have sex all day...

>Neglecting any form of faith/religion, what is the point of these meaningless efforts?

Yep, this is basically the reason religion was invented. I'm an atheist and I agree that objectively, religion places purpose in people's minds (albeit false) .

>If you were to commit suicide nothing would matter, so why should it matter now?

Because I'm here now. The point is just building myself a life that I will be satisfied with, looking out for the interests of my loved ones, and getting to see and do things that I hadn't seen or done before.

> The broader ethical concerns of life and death show Schopenhauer at his most challenging. Life is dominated by the fact that it ends in death, yet this is strangely at odds, he comments, with the way people normally live – as if they will never die. But what value does life really have for the living anyway? Schopenhauer deepens his pessimistic vision, arguing that the only real hope for a human being is to reach the insight that existing as an individual is worthless.

Not going to be around for long. I'm only 19 and time is moving quick. every breath of me is being focused towards science because I know when I'm rotting in the ground only my ideas will have contributed, and nothing physical will remain.

>>3657525
>>3657529

It's hard to "enjoy" when I'm being conformed in a stress filled systematic society.

I live because I have nothing better to do. :P

>>3657571
That's why I said 'try'.

>look up at night sky
>infinity makes you feel horribly small
>know that some of the stars that you are seeing are already fucking dead because the distance between them and you is so great it takes LIGHT centuries to reach you from there
>feel utterly crushed through skills of comprehension
>wait
>science!

if the human race survives long enough we will one day come up with something to well and truly make that big intimidating universe looking down on me from all sides into my bitch.

purpose of my life: make sure the human race lasts and contribute to science

>>3657594
>make sure the human race lasts

I wish I could have this dream someday but then I actually look around me and wish I was able to kick-off WW3

>>3657613

I agree with you. I'm tired of this boring routine life. It simply fucking sucks. I'd love to witness natural disaster, or something absolutely horrific happening to Earth. Why? It is entertaining!

‘purpose’ and ‘meaning’ are terms created by human thought, they are not an integrated feature of the underling universe, it is up to each of us to consider and define our own values and goals in life.
I set my goals and behaviors based on the personal values I have developed for myself through rumination and personal aethstetics.
I feel no need for and am really somewhat unsettled by others need for grand backing.
Labor is price of living for all things. if you want others to give you things then you have to give them something they want in return, if you don’t like what you have been giving then find something you like better, don’t cry pathetically and wait to be physically or emotionally saved.
No one owes you anything for just existing.

"Nothing can be loved or hated until it is first understood."

I cannot love or hate life until I understand it. Once I understand it I shall make the decision of whether or not it was/is worth it.

>>3657613
>>3657626
>pussies who want something to happen because they hate their lives and are either too cowardly to kill themselves or are so deluded as to think they will some how rise to the top during the chaos.

>>3657686
thats the most bullshit statement ever. my be if you qualified it with reasonably it would manage to just be a contradiction, but as it is it is a complete and utter failure of logic and semantics

>>3657713

>>3657626
I have to admit that watching people going crazy during natural disasters can be quite entertaining. Though when it's the same thing over and over like the midwest US with it's tornadoes demolishing cities every year it gets tiresome.

>>3657713
>complete and utter failure of logic and semantics
thats just how we roll here at /sci/!

>If you were to commit suicide nothing would matter, so why should it matter now?

What? So the future renders the past completely void? But the past happened. And now is happening, and I am experiencing - that is enough to live for me.

Achieve the maximum amount of pleasure, and it matters because its a predetermined primitive motivation to live. (So I use emotions to illuminate what I want)

What does it mean to matter? Matter to what? The universe? It doesn't because my body would re-arrange into something else almost invariably. Matter to humans? Depends on what I do? It matters to me because it would contradict my definition of motivation.

It's needed to do what I do. Maximum amount of pleasure takes effort, which is fine.

The point is that I enjoy it. After I die, I won't care.

>Tell me your motivation for life, and why it is important.

Simple. Knowledge.
I can use it to advance humanity further and to pass it on to my kids. If i choose to have any.

I am sorry you can't get any joy from understanding how the universe works.

Actually implying any of you are going to die.

Transhumanism is right around the corner.

>>3657807
I will not commit sucidie because I love my mother and she would be absolutely devastated.
I may not have a reason to live, but she does, and far be it from me to deprive her of her day-to-day happiness even if I no longer experience great joys for whatever inner stimulus prevents it from forming inside of me properly.

if the human race were an engine, i would say that every fire of a cylinder has a purpose in moving the car foreward, however brief each ones life. if you do something to feel a part of society moving foreward, your contributions give you purpose.

i like to think that one day we will live in a more perfect world, either earth or mars or venus, and i will never get to see it, but what little i did was a stepping stone towards that. and if we never get there i will be too dead to know.

progress for the sake of progress, and life for the sake of life.

Your assumptions are what make you lack your own private, personal, understanding:

Assumption:
>humans strive through struggles and stress to achieve a temporary status of power

Assumption:
> If you were to commit suicide nothing would matter

Assumption:
> Do people enjoy working for numerous hours?

>>3657821
It's called antisenescence. Transhumanism is unnecessary, that is unless you think practical immortality is inhuman enough to be considered transhumanism. Aging and and thus natural death is a symptom to a great many afflictions, afflictions that we will one day cure... maybe.

I just live because i believe i was put here to experience life. When i die, i will most likely just be put here to do it all over again.

>>3657827
>commit suicide.

I don't understand peoples logic behind doing this.
There are 70 trillion combinations that can be made between your parents when they want a baby.
The fact that you were born out of that makes me not want to waste that, and thats not even factoring in the chances that your parents would meet and everything else.

I could never think of wasting the chance i was given to do something, especially since any of the other combinations that could've been born in my stead could've done something.

I find that the more I ponder the big questions like:
What is the purpose of all this?
Where do my thoughts come from?
Who am I?
What is important?

The more I start to think I'm slowly become insane/schizophrenic, so I try to pick a theme that sounds the "most right" and stick with it. Unfortunately, my thirst for knowledge causes me to reject that "most right" idea until a new one is found. During the intermissions between new "most right" ideas, I start to feel the panic and anxiety of my mind letting go of itself. It's not a good feeling. Perhaps there are things we shouldn't think about so much, but really, I can't help it.

Can any of you who truly believe that death is absolutely the end of you explain why you believe this? It's just such an odd idea to me.

>>3657871
Your brain no longer gives off the signals that we identify you as living anymore.

Your brain is you, without it you are dead. You are also no longer the same person you were 1 second ago. Every moment changes you.

>>3657890
So it is basically the electric circuitry that flows through us that defines us. When the electric circuit seizes, we are no more.

We're no different than machines then. How does this impact the possibility of AI? Free will? The composition of the universe?

>>3657898
AI is obviously possibly in principle but really fucking hard, free will does or does not exist depending entirely on what you mean by it (and let's not talk about that now), the universe is entirely reducible to extremely small objects and the idea that there are -literally- high-level objects like minds which aren't reducible to smaller parts is laughable to anyone with a bit of modern education.

>>3657890
I guess i should explain my perspective. I believe in reincarnation, not quite the way buddhists put it, but more towards that i will be reborn again with no conscious memories of my previous life. The idea of your essence fading into nothing is ridiculous to me. It defies how the universe works.

I honestly don't understand people who believe that their body is what makes them who they are. That you really are nothing more than a brain in a meat housing.

The purpose of our existence is to contribute to the survival of our species, in the same way that the purpose of each individual cell in our bodies is to contribute to the survival of the larger organism which they comprise.

In the near term that means learning to become habitat independent; We must become technologically capable of surviving in large numbers, sustainably, in as wide a variety of environments as possible. The specific conditions in which we evolved and are most able to thrive will not last, no matter what we do. We must therefore learn to replicate these conditions elsewhere, or change ourselves to fit new environments.

My life will be spent advancing such efforts.

>>3657914
I used to think the same.
But then i realized there's no where for all of the connections that make you up to go.

There is still much we don't understand, even about our own brain.
Study the brain more and you'll understand why reincarnation doesn't work. It stopped me from thinking it was possible.
You are only you because of the connections of your brain. Are you the same person you were 10 years ago?
No your life view and understanding has changed 10 fold. this is because the connections in your brain and the way they interact has changed.

Without your brain you aren't you.

I sometimes wonder how many formerly active stars supported the orbits of planets that once perpetuated life, but that life had later all been completed destroyed by those stars' deaths before that collection of life had a chance to overcome the challenges of understanding we currently experience.

>>3657930
But couldn't then, reincarnation in the sense that the matter your composed of eventually recompose to another form of life with completely separate connections?

>>3657930
>You are only you because of the connections of your brain. Are you the same person you were 10 years ago?

I never implied that if i was reincarnated i would retain any of my previous self. The best way i can put it is that i'm going to be born a different person each time to experience life anew. How the brain changes and how my life is altered is just different experiences that i'm here for before i move on to the next.

>>3657914
The part we disagree on is the idea that there is some irreducible "essence" which is apart from your body.

The argument I like to make in this situation goes like this:
Suppose we could perfectly simulate the physics in every cell in your nervous system. We feed this simulation the exact stimuli you were receiving - what you see, it sees, in other words. The simulation is going to have measurable responses, which we can translate into, for example, intent to speak.

The question is this: Do you think that this simulation would ever behave differently from you? Because that's a question we can answer someday, and if you ask scientists, the answer is going to turn out to be "no".

So if the physical matter completely defines your thoughts, feelings, and actions, what is there left for your "essence" to do?

>>3657503
It makes no difference if you commit suicide... But it also makes no difference if you don't. So there is nothing compelling you to kill yourself, just because your existence is meaningless. After considering that you need only look at the fun times in life, what more reason do you need to live than fun?

>>3657952
>So if the physical matter completely defines your thoughts, feelings, and actions, what is there left for your "essence" to do?

Experience. If you are correct and i could be cloned on such a specific level and my clone would make the exact same choices and live the same life, maybe that's entirely the point. Maybe that was what was chosen to be lived through. Suddenly it throws fate and predetermination into the mix, but it would make sense if your "essence" decided that was the type of life it wished to experience on this go around.

>>3657944
What is this "you" you are talking about.
It wont be "you" if non of the connections that make up your brain are present.

>>3657937
Same as i said to the other guy, This matter isn't you if the brain connections aren't present.
If i took your brain out of your body and put it into another you would still be you.
The rest of your body would not be relevant to you. Your brain still might try to control the body because its used to the control it had over it. but it will adapt to the new body and you will still be yourself.

Quoting Brian cox in BBC's "Wonders of the Universe"
We are the universe made conscious of itself, we manifested in a brief era in space/time when life is possible, this (us) isn't going to happen again.
I want, no matter how futile, for sentient beings to learn something to explore, with this allotted time. I don't plan to get an office job, get married, have children and declare i had a decent life i want to contribute to the furtherment of man kind/the universe

That's what gets me up in the morning, literally, i won't get up without this notion going through my head. It's kind of silly but it's enough

>>3657914
>It defies how the universe works.
The idea of an essence defies how the universe works. If you study physics, you'll come to understand that _everything_ we see can be completely described by an extremely small set of extremely mathematically simple laws. In fact, at the moment, it looks like quantum chromodynamics and relativity are sufficient to completely describe the entire universe, and with any luck we'll reduce those two laws down to one. This is by far the most beautiful fact I know.

The problem is that there's no room for an essence, in all of this. There is nothing but matter, arranged in patterns. And when you die, there's no separate extra-material "you" to get reincarnated. The universe is _just_ quantum chromodynamics and relativity; it does not care about "you".

>(p) the universe is entirely reducible to extremely small objects and the idea that there are -literally- high-level objects like minds which aren't reducible to smaller parts is laughable to anyone with a bit of modern education.

>(p) Kurt Godel had a bit of modern education

>(c) Kurt Godel thought a/all non reductive theory of mind laughable


Something's not right here.

>>3657966
That's actually very insightful wisdom to conduct yourself by.

>>3657968
So you believe that this is your one shot at life and after this you will completely cease to be?

>>3657968
What's left to think of is the unverifiable possibilities of concepts that exist outside observation that we could never be aware of, and that have no effect whatsoever on the nature of reality as described by these laws. A sort of "behind the scenes" occurring of sorts, but again, not possible to experience, verify, discuss, or argue, but still something to keep to oneself and think about personally.

>>3657961
>If you are correct and i could be cloned on such a specific level and my clone would make the exact same choices and live the same life, maybe that's entirely the point. Maybe that was what was chosen to be lived through. Suddenly it throws fate and predetermination into the mix, but it would make sense if your "essence" decided that was the type of life it wished to experience on this go around.
That didn't manage to make much sense. Can you rephrase?

>>3657991
That's the truth.

>>3657968
Just because current science can't explain something doesn't instantly nullify the possibility. We have absolutely no way of explaining how the singularity that caused the big bang and created the universe existed in the first place.

>>3657993
The problem is, you sitting there typing that message is a visible effect on the universe. If these concepts are completely outside of the universe and have no effect whatsoever, then the reason you wrote that has nothing at all to do with those concepts. At which point they seem a bit redundant, don't you think?

>>3658006

>Just because current science can't explain something doesn't instantly nullify the possibility

Just because you can pull a hypothetical out of your bum doesn't mean that it has any validity.

>>3658006
We've got a pretty damn good idea, actually, but that's a bit beside the point. I don't see what this has to do with the fact that there's not room for an essence in our understanding of the universe.

>>3658012
I guess in order to avoid redundancy, they'd have to have effect on the observable universe but remain undetectable unless science is able to show otherwise someday by dismissing them completely, or showing the concept of them to be redundant.

>>3658006
>>3658002
>>3657968
Cold, deterministic, heartless, BEAUTIFUL materialism. If you can look into the void and grin then you are okay in my book.

>>3658037
We're getting closer every year to being able to completely describe everything you do in terms of your neurochemistry, and that includes typing messages on 4chan about concepts beyond the universe. There's no reason to expect that won't be explained by science, just like rain and fire and sound and light and disease and damn near everything else.

The larger point is that it would go against the idea of the universe as a completely described by a very small set of very simple laws. The universe would be 99.9% explainable by those laws, but in that .1% of cases there would be things like you typing about concepts outside of the universe that happened for no reason, in defiance of the laws. And that would be very strange indeed. I'd be much, much less happy to live in such a universe, because that universe would be much less beautiful than ours.

Everyone has autism. varying degrees, but everyone has autism. that's all I've got to explain it. global autism.

Yep.

>>3658072
Shouldn't be long then.

>>3657958
>It makes no difference if you commit suicide... >But it also makes no difference if you don't.
Actually it does make a difference if you commit suicide. If the anon that wrote this killed himself 2 days ago, It wouldnt have been possible for him to write stuff on 4chan today. And if he wasnt able to do that, then I wouldn't be reading and thinking about what he wrote. So--- it does make a difference in the world whether or not you commit suicide because you're always affecting something on this planet.

a man goes to see a movie for the first time. its a wonderful movie with ups and downs, heartache and action, triumph and failure, discovery and beauty. then the credits roll and the guy gets up and yells "what the fuck? its over. i should have walked out in the first five minutes. it had no point if it ended"

Just enjoy the fucking movie, and when it ends shed a tear that its over and remember the good points and reflect on the bad as it fades to black. if theres a surprise double feature...well...all the better.

Drugs... Drugs are the way and everyone knows it. Alcohol, anti-depressants, anti-anxiety drugs so strong you could jump off a bridge and smile about it.

Nature is a bitch at dealing us the mediocre emotional life. So we superseed its constraints with mind opening drugs and drown in ourselves with downers. Commit suicide on sleep aids.

And if drugs aren't enough... Thrill seekers of all kinds. Jumping off planes risking potential death, or orgies. And if depravity overcomes you with its powerful emotions rape of all and everyone. Killing others for sport, mutilation, personalization of your own body. Sweet war takes us all sometimes.

Enjoy your stay on the madhouse called earth! And if you don't enjoy your stay let the wolfs eat you alive, cracking your ribs and legs. Tearing away your muscles and eyes while you still breath.

>>3658078
Pretty good theory. I like it. We're all retarded mutants trying to pretend we're smart by piecing together matter and energy in the universe when we can't even make a universe ourselves.

My philosophy is to not keep a rigid conceptualization of the past and the future beyond practical measure. It's hard, but I try. One of my favorite things to live by is "In the game of life, I am both big and small."

The day my mom died, the world stopped for me. I loved her dearly, we were really close. As I drove my car later that day, I watched the people walking by. The day was no different for them, at least, not how it was for me. I realized that her, just one person, had so much power and weight in my life that in her absence I felt forever changed. Yet, to anyone else, it was just another number, if even that. So, she is both vastly important and valued- by, me and others- and vastly insignificant- by the world measure. And we are all the same in this way.

So, I try to appreciate both. The big, and the small. Staying humble and grateful in light of the big, and feeling strong and proud in light of the small. Just today, I played some old videogame music against my wife's pregnant belly and my unborn child went CRAZY. It was cute, and precious to me. And it's moments like that that I hone in on that make my life feel worth living.

>>3658181
Yeah it makes a difference. But not a good or bad one. I saw a homeless man die yesterday and I had a good chat with him while he was dieing. He wasn't afraid or anything either.

Death happens. Deal with it child.

>>3657503
OP: I'm happier to live in a universe that's not telling me what I ought to be doing. If the purpose of life is set out, say "to continue the species", then... what if I don't want to? What if I want nothing more than to spend my life advancing human knowledge as much as I can in my limited time? What if I want to experience as many mental states as I can through meditations and psychotropics? What if I just want to get off this planet and die content in the vacuum of space? Should I give these up to produce more children?

But there's no god telling me I was put here to breed. I chose my own path and my own destination. I am the captain of my soul and all that.

And there's no freedom that tastes sweeter than that.

>>3658361
I fail to see the truth in your words. The world is a heavenly dream.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7583894250854515095

thats why religion exists

>>3658304
> If the purpose of life is set out, say "to continue the species", then... what if I don't want to?

Then don't. That's what's so great about life. You decide what has purpose for yourself.

to become immortal.

>>3658181
That's obviously not the way I meant it, I don't know if you're being nitpicky or just misinterpreted my post. It makes no difference outside of human society - human society makes no difference to anything outside of itself, so it makes no difference.

"Nothing else can be states as the aim of our existence except the knowledge that it would be better for us not to exist." ~Schopenhauer

>>3659372
"Nothing else can be stated as the aim of our existence except the knowledge that it would be better for us not to exist." ~Schopenhauer

who told you there need to be a point to life?
why would an external reason be any better than you yourself create?
why so sheep?

>>3659381
Schopenhauer was a pessimist and a Hegelian.
I have never met either one of these that were serious.

We don't know OP.

But that's the motivation to stick around and do science.

So the way I see it, we have two choices.
1) do nothing
2) improve scientific understanding

case 1 (do nothing): if life is meaningless it doesn't matter. If life has meaning we will never know what it is.

case 2 (do science): if life is meaningless it doesn't matter. If life has meaning it will likely only be revealed through scientific insight.

Therefore, it is the most logical case to continue working hard and improving scientific knowledge.
Doing this, you get the most out of either case (life meaningless or meaningful), but if you do nothing you are taking a gamble, and you enjoying life more by having to work less will also still have no meaning.
So there is no possible gain that can come from taking it easy and doing nothing worthwhile

A decent chunk of my life has already died and the number of moments I have to exercise my will are still dying with each passing second.

Well, I do not know where you hail from. I am amerfag myself. We have just made life... Not what it is meant to be... I just go to school and work constantly. It makes me sick. My mother has fallen into this as well and we have bearly bonded since I was a wee lad. I have no time for my own grandmother... Little time for my girlfriend, and bearly any alone time for me to relax or learn to play an instrument. Shits fucked up, then u die... Remember that b 4 u have kids

>>3659435
Schopenhauer wasn't a Hegelian, you stupid fucker.

>>3657503
sorry to say this OP but

Religion

>>3659491
>>3659435
"If I were to say that the so-called philosophy of this fellow Hegel is a colossal piece of mystification which will yet provide posterity with an inexhaustible theme for laughter at our times, that it is a pseudo-philosophy paralyzing all mental powers, stifling all real thinking, and, by the most outrageous misuse of language, putting in its place the hollowest, most senseless, thoughtless, and, as is confirmed by its success, most stupefying verbiage, I should be quite right.
Further, if I were to say that this summus philosophus [...] scribbled nonsense quite unlike any mortal before him, so that whoever could read his most eulogized work, the so-called Phenomenology of the Mind, without feeling as if he were in a madhouse, would qualify as an inmate for Bedlam, I should be no less right."-Arthur Schopenhauer.

>>3659435
'At first Fichte and Schelling shine as the heroes of this epoch; to be followed by the man who is quite unworthy even of them, and greatly their inferior in point of talent --- I mean the stupid and clumsy charlatan Hegel."- Arthur Schopenhauer.

>>3659435
In his Foreword to the first edition of his work Die beiden Grundprobleme der Ethik, Schopenhauer suggested that he had shown Hegel to have fallen prey to the Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.

Also, I don't take anyone who disagrees with philosophical pessimism seriously.

>>3659485

People work so much they might not have kids at this rate. Women start to become infertile around age 30 and no young girl is going to want a guy that old. If you put the whole reproduction thing off until school is done with you might be out of the gene pool for good.

>>3659528
No, you idiot
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0008772

>>3657503
I don't think there is a reason, really.
The Universe is just so impossibly complex, that sometimes miracles happen.
And I don't mean it in a literal sense, I'm not one for superstitions. I mean what with all these infinite variables, something strange and unusal was bound to happen.
It just happened to be us.
Mankind, billions of years in the making. We're what happens when the condom breaks. Someday it was bound to happen, and now you have to deal with something you're not supposed to.
As for me, I take pleasure in the little things. Yes, there are times that make you wonder if it's worth it. But then, there are those real moments. You see your cats playing in the grass, amidst the flowers of early Spring. You lay in a pond by a waterfall, surrounded by your friends.
Yeah, there are bad moments. And there are good ones. Which is more than can be said for the rest of the Universe. All of it is beautiful, we're simply not as bland.

>>3659544
You're such a fag.

>>3659551
You're half correct.
But good work in you. I appreciate the effort.

If the universe is a tree, and our consciousness are like fruits on it, then we're not one of the fruits, but the tree itself.

a) We believe in individuality ('I am John') because it is necessary for society, and because we barely got out of being mere primates, but it doesn't make sense objectively. What is between you and me? We see our skin, we see the air between us, and then our primitive, categorizing minds assume we're separate. But it's all a soup of atoms. The air is as much a part of me as the skin of my arm or my neurons. It just happens that the forces of homeostasis hold 'my' stuff together. But there's no such thing as "atoms of John", and "atoms of Not John". Individuality doesn't make sense. You can't categorize matter. My personality and memories are indeed matter in my head, consciousness is a product of the brain, it all dies with the brain, it's all lost at death, but there's no such thing as "the consciousness which belonged to John". If consciousness is a product, then you can't tag it to say it belonged to "someone". It either exists or doesn't.
b) It explains why we're alive currently. If life were unique then the probability would be very high that we would either be already dead or not yet born. Seriously, when you look at the probability it doesn't make sense to be alive in the present if life (the feeling of being alive) is unique, a one-time thing.
c) Think about words like "to be", or "me". They're arbitrary and don't make sense. Why are you 'you' and not your neighbor? What does it mean "to be" someone? Can you think of a good reason you were born in this particular body and not living someone else's life? Because I have a good reason. The reason is you were actually born in both, and you think you are John because brains are separated, and you are biased, and manipulated by human nature and your center-of-the-world perspective to think you're just one person when it doesn't make any sense.

>>3659559
Life isn't worth living, whatsoever. And any act of procreation is an unethical imposition of potential suffering upon a sentience.

>>3659573
Or should I say imminent suffering, I shall be so bold to so imminent without any incredulity henceforth.

>>3659573
Your mileage may vary, no?
Some would rather think of procreation as the extent of life. You're prolonging our stay.
Some appreciate it, some don't. And some think of it in an entirely different manner.

>>3659580
say*

>>3659589
Those of whom that believe such a preposterous notion that procreation is not an imposition of suffering upon a sentience are thoroughly unduly.

>>3659571
>>If 4chan is a bathroom, and our posts are like turds in it, then this thread is not one of the turds, but the toilet itself.

>>3659603
unduly unethical*
drunk typos

>>3657503

Why do you suppose rationalizing something will lead you to truth everytime?
This is such a problem with my race.
Thinking is but one portion of our experience and process to find truth.
Science has completely neglected our ability to feel.
If you could just reach out and FEEL the world, you would never question your place in the world, this ever rising cresendo of a universe.
We learn in science that life is some accident, by fluke we are here now, in this cold, hostile universe. But if you could just learn to FEEL again man, you would come to the most beautiful understanding.
Everything is alive, everything in the natural world, seen and unseen, has an aspect of intelligence, is alive.
Forgetting this seems to be the fall of man.
From his divinity.
The sun is a giant ball of fusion plasma at IT'S MOST BASE! Why wouldn't you suppose something so massive, the progenator and sustainer of all life on this planet, to be intelligent? Intelligent in ways we mere mortals cannot even fathom.
So getting up is an after thought when you realize you are part of a symphony reaching for infinity.
You were born to be a conductor. How to become one? that's my reason d'etre.

>>3659603
Again, your mileage may indeed vary.
Some would rather believe otherwise. And such a basic thing is for each one of us to decide on our own.
And thank you for your opinion, I'm always glad to know of new points of view.

Sure none of us will matter after a hundred years or so...

BUT WHO THE FUCK CARES

People are what make life worth living, make friends, and go out and do shit. We anons managed to grow up in ridiculously fortunate circumstances, being a human in the 21st century = God mode. The fact that you can communicate with people around the world instantly on a device you don't understand is incredible. Its time you retard aspies stopped complaining and looked to everything that makes life worth living.

Yes i mad

The whole "pleasure over nothing" thing has already been mentioned, so I'll address this:

>Do people enjoy working for numerous hours? I truly can't understand the reason...
"Irrational" or no, I get depressed if I don't feel like I'm contributing anything and I feel good if I do feel like I'm contributing something. Maybe it's some ancient instinct, getting the apes that aren't useful on the hunt and don't help out the tribe, just dragging on its food supply, to cull themselves. Maybe it's the indoctrination of a capitalist society. I don't know. Either way, it's just avoiding pain and seeking pleasure as usual.

>>3659706
Sometimes, we realize we're just a drop in the ocean. And we hate that.
And sometimes, we appreciate it. That there are countless versions of us. That we're not alone.
And that we're working to improve all of us.
Sometimes, empathy is the only thing we have. And it feels us with such tremendous joy, that we stop to think about it. Why is it not valued? Did we simply forget about it?
Whatever the case, we know we can always rely on it to make us smile again. Empathy is our greatest friend. And that's what counts.
That no matter what happens, we'll always have someone to count on. Not ourselves, but others.

>>3659739

>Empathy
>Relies on others
>Has no Empathy of his own

ISHYGDDT

>>3659797
And what would make you think that?

>>3659822

Think what?

>>3659620
It's not an opinion, it's a fact.

>>3659825
That I rely on others and have no empathy on my own?

>>3659847
Arguably so.
If that argument is nothing but theoretical, and not all people can agree with you, does it still count as 'fact'?

>>3659925
Yes, because suffering exists within all people as a universal statement is true, and therefore the statement procreation is an imposition of suffering upon a sentience, however indirect, is true, and suffering per se is a positive quality with negative effects.

>>3660005
So, such an imposition is inherently bad, given the eventuality of suffering.

>>3660005
Suffering does, indeed exist in every person.
But procreation and reproduction demand none of it from both male and female.
Such would be false for most animals. However, we distinguish ourselves in that our procreation does not revolve around rape, rather than affection.
And as pleasure is also inherently in all people, then as we are given both it and suffering, can it still be said that reproductions is based on the latter?

You're arguing that creating suffering is a moral wrong no matter what. But to fail to procreate is to deny sentience the chance to interact with the world and to experience joy. How is that more morally acceptable?

OP, you need to read "The Myth of Sisyphus" by Albert Camus. That book addresses all of your concerns.

>>3660048
We are all born with suffering, true.
And suffering, truth be told, is not the most beautiful of things.
And failing to procreate is a-okay with me.
But you see, the thing is, all people have both suffering and happiness in them. You are born with both, and only one ought be standard in your life.
You need both, but would you rather have a life filled with suffering, or with joy?
Only happiness should be present, as it is what we fight for. Minimizing suffering while turning it into something we can learn from, and turning happiness into the constant in our lives without becoming self-indulged is what lets us grow and evolve as people.

>>3660099
What joy is there in procreating?
Why is it necessary to procreate?

>>3660099
Joy is merely a contrivance to momentarily surmount suffering and to protract the willingness to exist. The only thing that precludes most of us from death, is the attachments we have here. We always have to eat that last cheeseburger, or get that last blowjob. We're sisyphean, and pathetic creatures.

>>3660114
It ensures our survival as a species.
And we were hardwired to enjoy it.
And denying that pleasure does not necessarily make you super-human.
Most assexual people, or those who do not feel pleasure from the act of sex tend to suffer from either severe depression or a mental condition.

>>3657503
let me me make this simple for you, asshole. the only reason you exist is to make more us. more people. stop beating yourself up about the meaning of life and that bullshit and accept that, from nature's intention, the only reason you are alive is to makey babies. then, once you've internalised that idea, maximise your happiness by striving for what you want in life. obvs you have to know what you want first, but that's the hard part. the work isn't hard. the work is enjoyable once you know that the end product will make you happy, whatever that might be.

>>3660148
Firstly, I'm talking about procreation, not the act of copulation.
Secondly, why is it necessary for the human race to survive a second generation?
Give me a good reason.

>>3660178
Or should I say, another generation.

>>3660178
because that's life. that's how grass grows. if the grass in your garden suddenly started having an existential crisis and decided that it didn't need to copulate and/or reproduce itself, it would die. it goes against the nature of an organism, and nature for it to want itself to become extinct.

..usually.

>>3660178
Give me one good reason why it shouldn't.
As far as we know, we might be the only living species in the entire Universe.
Are you honestly willing to throw that away just because you don't see the point of it?
The human race, vanquished because they didn't feel like it.
And no, I don't mean we have a moral obligation to do it. I mean that as the most sentient species we have met so far, we ought to take this chance to enjoy what surrounds us. And to share this beautiful sight with others. When you think about the vast sea of unknowns that lie in the eternal depths of the Universe, how there's such immeasurable beauty in it all, and such countless wonderful sights right here where we live, do you not think about seeing them?
And if so, do you wish to hog it all to yourself? Did you ever thought about sharing it with someone you loved?
That's why we have to live. Because we're the only species that can share this immense beauty with others. Because we're the only ones that can explore it to the nth degree.

>Give me one good reason why it shouldn't.
Suffering
>As far as we know, we might be the only living species in the entire Universe
So?
>Are you honestly willing to throw that away just because you don't see the point of it?
No, I'm willing to throw humanity away because IT IS pointless.
>The human race, vanquished because they didn't feel like it.
The human race vanquished because there's no point in prolonging it in the first place, the human race vanquished because they had a bit of humility and understanding to realise nothing is to become of this existence except strife and suffering.

>And no, I don't mean we have a moral obligation to do it. I mean that as the most sentient species we have met so far, we ought to take this chance to enjoy what surrounds us. And to share this beautiful sight with others. When you think about the vast sea of unknowns that lie in the eternal depths of the Universe, how there's such immeasurable beauty in it all, and such countless wonderful sights right here where we live, do you not think about seeing them?
That's such a silly argument. Such an appeal to emotion.

>>3660200
But if we can actively abstain from procreating, then why procreate? Contraception exists, y'know.

>>3660200
Grass doesn't have a capacity to reason. And how is humanity at all resourceful?

This thread is entertaining for somebody with serious suicidal intentions to read.

>And if so, do you wish to hog it all to yourself? Did you ever thought about sharing it with someone you loved?
That's why we have to live. Because we're the only species that can share this immense beauty with others. Because we're the only ones that can explore it to the nth degree.
No? There'd be no need for exploration if humanity didn't exist. We wouldn't experience it as a species.

The key to live is happiness in all forms. We stive for improvement because we know that we have a wonderful world that our ancestors have struggled to give us. It is now our turn to do the same. "I want my children to have a better life than mine."

>>3660244
My position is not pro-mandatory suicide, even though I support assisted suicide.

>>3660259
Implying I know which other posts are yours.

>>3660254
>We stive for improvement because we know that we have a wonderful world that our ancestors have struggled to give us. It is now our turn to do the same. "I want my children to have a better life than mine."

So, how do you plan on completely eradicating suffering from all sentience?

Helping people when I can leaves me pretty satisfied, I work in a place that allows me to be helpful some desperate people and their kids. Working long hours suck, but at least this way I'm doing something that I can be proud of later. But I also suck at basically everything that doesn't have to do with helping out. So yeah. I'm being vague about what I do because I would feel like an even bigger bragging dick than I already do.

And what is wrong with emotion?
Or are you so depressed you just need an excuse to kill yourself?
If that's the case, go ahead, be my guest.
One less whiny little bitch wondering about how "pointless this all is", the better.
Especially if you don't even consider the fact that depression is an altered state of thought, and therefore thinks in a whole different way. It's far too cold to feel the warmth of emotion, and that's why it leads to suicide.
As for me, go ahead. Emotion is one of our greatest traits. Telling it to go fuck itself just because you're feeling in the downs is, quite honestly, a very big dick, arrogant move. Not that it matters to you, does it?
If you don't care about anything else, nothing else will care about you.
Well, I'm off. Here I was, with high hopes to cheer you all up. And then a little pessimistic twat had to ruin everything.
Oh, /sci/. I thought you were better than this.

>And what is wrong with emotion?
Nothing, there's plenty wrong with making an informal fallacy and propounding it as a legitimate logical statement, though.
>Or are you so depressed you just need an excuse to kill yourself?
Heh, nice ad hominen, and strawman. No, I'm not arguing for everyone to end their lives against their will, I'm arguing that creating more life is pointless and cruel, because we realise the shit we go through in our own.
>As for me, go ahead. Emotion is one of our greatest traits. Telling it to go fuck itself just because you're feeling in the downs is, quite honestly, a very big dick, arrogant move. Not that it matters to you, does it?
If you don't care about anything else, nothing else will care about you.
Well, I'm off. Here I was, with high hopes to cheer you all up. And then a little pessimistic twat had to ruin everything.
Oh, /sci/. I thought you were better than this.

Umad? I would be too, if I got the ass whupping you just did.

>>3660299
I wouldn't call it asswhooping, but more of a facepalm of such epic proportions, I feel like I ought to leave this place.
Kind of like when a 12 year old makes you go 'Ugh', and then he asks if you're mad.
Kind of what you just did.
But yeah, so long, emofag.

>>3660355
You have no argument. You lost. I won.
Dealwithit.jpg.

There is no point but the only reason understandable that your here is to reproduce and die off, I think its obvious that survival is the main goal of life....

The culture...of human society is really irrelevant and an outcome of humans not needing to survive as hard as other animals as food is supplied for us and such...

>>3660425
Yep.

Consumption, reproduction, and addiction.

There's no reason for humanity to procreate, and there's strong reasoning for humanity to not procreate.

to know God, and to obey His commandments, and seek His righteousness

that was said by one of the richest, most prolific, most powerful men in history, who also said that everything else; sex, wives, buildings, wars, etc., was vanity and vexation of spirit, King Solomon

>>3657503

just see it as a minecraft gaem

to all those pessimists here:
please anhero and dont forget the webcam