/sci/ - Science & Math

correlation does not imply causation

>>3607390

...below a reasonable sigma.

Suicide and depression rates have increased as well:
>http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnews/press_releases/2008/baker_suicide.html
>http://www.upliftprogram.com/depression_stats.html

Hmmm........

Science thread rates have been decreasing lately.
Yet, shitposter rates have also been increasing on /sci/ lately.

>>3607390
yet it would be quite naive to brush it off with the same five words every time someone brings up a valid question.

i'd blame it on nuclear families going to shit. don't suppose there's studies regarding a fall in parenting?

>>3607390
Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I would argue that causation is fundamentally an illusion. Epistemologically speaking, all we can ever assert is correlation.

OBAMA LOWERD CRIME GUISE!

yeayyayyy obama 2012 2012 obama!

It's not exactly true that crime rates are falling. Frist, the information gathering process is flawed and often manipulated purposefully. Secondly, as populations grow exponentially, crime does too.

Statistics .. it's the sleaziest form of science.

>>3607412
>what are rates

More than that, atheists are far less likely to be violent criminals. That's not a matter of causation though, it's just that both things are characteristics of intelligent, educated people.

>>3607415
more than one, ie .. rape + bugglary + murder

>>3607412
>Secondly, as populations grow exponentially, crime does too.

>>3607420
That's because Atheists are boring, non-passionate people. That's nothing to be proud of.

>>3607390
Where's the part of the chart that ranks by "% black people"?

>>3607412
>implying population rises exponentially

>>3607427
wat? It means more crime is happening but statistically, less crime is happening.

>>3607415

>>3607427
While population levels don't really "increase exponentially," it does mean more crime is happening as it increases. Essentially if there are more people around, there is more crime. But it doesn't necessarily mean the crime rate has increased or decreased in any significant way. Let's say you have a population of 100 people, and 10 of them are committing crimes, that's 10% crime rate. But now let's say the population increased to 1000, and now 100 people are committing crimes, that's still 10%. So population increases doesn't mean it's crime rate has increased in any significant way, it's just human nature being human nature.

>>3607428
>passionate
>mind-boggling, disgusting slaughter throughout the last 3 millenia based on a premise that can't be proven.

Jeez guys, even /b/ knew to ignore this troll of a thread on their board. God damn you're fucking idiots.

Deus vult, bitch.

People are just better than they ever have been. We are more peaceful, and less inclined to solve disputes with violence or to abuse our children, and less bigoted against other genders or races, than we ever have been in history.

It is no coincidence that this comes along with the rise of humanist values. Not necessarily atheism, but simply a morality founded on something other than what some guy says god says. In places where people are told being moral is a matter of following their conscience and reason, they treat each other better. In places where people are told that being moral is a matter of following the orders of god, or the law, they treat each other worse. This is true globally, the nations that are more secular are also more humane, and it is true nationally, those parts of each nation that are more secular are also more humane.

>>3607490


So why do people think things are getting worse? Well, because we are more willing to discuss the bad things, we are more aware of the bad things, and we are more concerned about the bad things. This is the 'honest' reason to think things are getting worse, and it can affect anyone if you aren't paying close attention. But some people also think things are getting worse because they have selected an arbitrary, and usually imaginary, pinnacle of morality in some earlier society. Every move away from this, regardless of the actual help or harm a change may do, is considered immoral. This is a symptom of morality from authority, obviously.

Placing your moral compass outside yourself not only makes you more of a dick in general, it also leaves you more vulnerable to the really evil excesses of immorality. Convincing someone to do something evil is one thing, but convincing someone that you know more about REAL good and evil is another, easier task. Religions are old hands at it. If I think it's wrong to kill someone, as most people do, it will take a lot of effort to break that down. If I think it is only wrong to disobey god or break the law, well, in that case you just have to make sure that some commandment or law has instructed me to do it. It's no longer a question of how moral I am, but solely how gullible I am.

>>3607428

I've never met an interesting religious person.

>>3607472
Rather have fountains of pointless blood than apathy.

>>3607505

You'd rather terrible things happen than for business to go about as usual?

>>3607517
No. I'd rather have millions die over beliefs than no one believe anything. I didn't think I was that cryptic.

>>3607523

That is an immoral statement.

Do the truth value of these beliefs make any difference to the equation? I mean, here are millions of people killing and dying because they believe in things that aren't true.

>>3607534
Human beings cannot be thought of as parts of an equation.

Also, YOU don't believe. Don't fight.

>>3607523
>derp, if you don't believe in fairies you must be a nihilist, herp

>>3607547
>Human beings cannot be thought of as parts of an equation.

If there are two people in a room, and then three more people come into the room, how many people are there in the room?

>Human beings cannot be thought of as parts of an equation.

>>3607558
Way to overlook the point because you had no reasonable comeback.

>>3607547
>Human beings cannot be thought of as parts of an equation.

>>3607563

I'm saying, is it better to kill and die for a false belief than it is to hold no such belief and live a life of peace?

I say it isn't. You seemed to say that it isn't.

>>3607572
I sure do believe that. Human beings without beliefs are sad, sad creatures.

Who cares if those beliefs are true? As long as the people going out and spilling blood and dying believe it, that's all that matters.

>>3607572
>I say it isn't. You seemed to say that it isn't.

Typo.

You seemed to say that it is better to kill and die for any belief, even a false one, than to just hold no such beliefs and live a life of peace.


And besides, most atheists hold humanist values. IE, the belief that human wellbeing, flourishing and solidarity are reason enough to treat others well in and of themselves. That's a belief, you have to take it a priori, but I have a feeling only nonsense beliefs really count for some people.

>>3607580

Oh I see. You're a troll.

>>3607588
Anything worth believing in is worth fighting for. Anyone who tells you otherwise is weak; likely both morally and physically.

One is not the cause of the other OP, they are both symptoms of an increasingly technological society and sensible culture.

'Sensible' is a hard word to use, because people can still be incredibly stupid sometimes. But not stupid enough to murder so much these days.