/sci/ - Science & Math

retroactive legistaltion, man. Can't be done where I live.

that's retarded since not all of them are on benefits

Just randomly change the rules for one event? Why?
That means if someone were to go out and steal something in London 4 months ago, they get convicted, and face the normal penalty. If someone does the same thing at the same time as many other people are doing it, so during a 'riot' they somehow deserve to be treated differently just because they committed the crime at a time when that particular crime was more common?

(not that I have any sympathy for the rioters, they are a bunch of stupid greedy violent pricks. but the law is the law.)

>>3544806

Post tits.

sage

>>3544806

God damn it, stop posting that ugly, random whore as a reaction image, PLEASE.

Also, this isn't changing any rules, this is just striking down morons. Rightly so.

>>3544814

>>3544819
How is it not changing the rules? that is exactly what it is. the petition is in favour of dishing out additional punishments to the rioters, that are not in concordance with the current punishments they should receive for those crimes as set out by law.

>>3544770

> drop charges
> release those in jail for that crime
> pick them up again
> not retroactive anymore

Problem solved.

I'm all for this as long as it's applied to all criminals who commit felonies, and revoked if they're proven innocent with compensation for any suffering incurred in the interim.

>>3544845
are you fucking broken? if you drop the charges hen they are free to go, you can't get them again for it. you would have to wait for them to re-offend.

>>3544849

Also any crime committed by a person in government power will NEVER receive government money. Cops, politicians, etc.

>>3544861

The U.K. does not practice prejudice or without prejudice?

>>3544870
nope, the law is fair, it applies to everyone equally.

>>3544864

Most any crime worth talking about by a person in power is a felony. I agree that a police officer found guilty of brutality (such as one who beats a suspect in custody) should not receive any government money. However, one who gets a speeding ticket, while due for a stiffer reprimand than a civillian, shouldn't lose their pension over it.

>>3544875

Once the government drops charges, they can never be recalled in the U.K.?

>>3544888
If new evidence comes in, i guess they can. But in this case with the rioters you know they did it, they've already been convicted, so you cant just say. "you are all free to go!" --> *change law to make punishment harsher* --> "loljk, you are still under arrest, oh look at that, enjoy your new harsher punishment, faggot"

According to U.K. law, a person can tried for a crime a jury has already acquitted them on.

Why are you wrong so often, eeeeeeeeeeeeeek?

As an American, I must with utmost regret say that I will not sign your stupid fucking petition, nor do I give a fuck.

>>3544904

They haven't been convicted yet, silly.

>>3544906
with no new evidence? I don't see why that would ever happen. if found innocent the first time, then the situation is exactly the same the second time with no new evidence, so should be found innocent again.

>>3544908
Well fuck you, you selfish yank bastard! Not caring about anyone but yourself?
oh, hows that economy collapse coming along?

And after all that, people still thought tripfags were fags

>>3544924

You are confusing trial with charges. They have been charged, not tried. Drop the charges without prejudice, recharge them, win.

No.jpg

Less benefits = less money for faggots = faggots riot more

>Loose all benefits
>loose

Is this one of those alternate europoor spellings?

>>3544933
No just a common misspelling.
I thought I'd see more class in /sci/
captcha: terubl

>>3544933
you knew what he meant, you fucking aspie prick.

>MFW the government blocks the petition, revealing contempt for democracy when it doesn't work to their benefit

>>3544946
a 100,000 signature petition doesn't necessarily show the opinion of the millions of people who didn't sign.

>>3544928
you should get rid of the trip, and lose the 4chan personality, even if its for troll purposes

only faggots trolling would think less and not more of you

>>3544849
>>3544864
>>3544883
OP HERE
I believe that the best feature of this petition is that its general enough to also apply to the police who will be caught on video and prosecuted for their use of excessive force
For that it is well worth the trade off of treating actions taken during a riot.
Most Americans are completly unaware of the executive orders that now allow for nothing less than medical experimentation on any persons within any provience under the jurisdiction of the United States during a time of riot.
The original intent of the executive orders had the pretext of allowing for the use of essentially untested alternative means of crowd control such as sound and microwave devices but the eventual broad catagorical wording of the order allows for very general and broad ranged legal aplication.

>>3544758
Lol. How about you add removal of human rights? Because "hard measures" and "once a criminal always a criminal", right? Or maybe mass executions.
Fuck you. Rioting is perhaps an illegal act, but this is no reason to deal out more than the usual punishment for property damage.

This is the form of political expression and anger venting some of them have taken. There are genuine problems behind this. The better-off part of society and politicans have to deal with those neglected people's shit for once. Not just the other way around.

Take it as a matter of a warning being delivered in an illegal -and yes, unfair to store owners and so on- way. The really pressing issue is that you're at the point where you've pushed people to be angry and desperate enough to riot and destroy property. Next will typically come the killing, unless you properly address their grievances.

>>3544976

> intitial acts of aggression against non-government entities is political expression


wut

people identified in the Riots will be fairly prosecuted under the law, that could involve, community service, fines, prison time etc, what you're suggesting is pushing someone under poverty level as punishment, what do you think they are going to do, thats right steal/loot.

>>3544976
>Fuck you. Rioting is perhaps an illegal act, but this is no reason to deal out more than the usual punishment for property damage.

You mean besides its conspiratorial nature and degree of malice beyond just breaking an object?


>Lol. How about you add removal of human rights? Because "hard measures" and "once a criminal always a criminal", right? Or maybe mass executions
>Next will typically come the killing, unless you properly address their grievances.

Nigga lick my taint and go back under your bridge. Inequality has always existed and will always exist because people are not literally equal.

>>3544995
this is exactly the kind of thing that will have to be considered by parlaiment

>>3544976
>Next will typically come the killing, unless you properly address their grievances
the killings have already started...

>>3544996
>You mean besides its conspiratorial nature and degree of malice beyond just breaking an object?
There is nothing serious to punish beyond the property damage and theft, except the ones that attacked people or similar things, they can be punished for this.

There is no reason for extraordinary just punishment because this is a good part of a generation in a certain social stratum violently protesting together after repeated past peaceful (and even further back, violent) protests in the past essentially went unheard.

>Inequality has always existed and will always exist because people are not literally equal.
As long as you stay within limits on this, almost no one will riot, and even amongst the few that still want to be violent jerks generally won't loot and burn. See Switzerland and co. You just drove people too far.

It is not acceptable that you can be born into poverty and would require herculean efforts to get out of it, equal to those to become extraordinarily wealthy by honest work for people born into richer families.

If a government goes on to generously spend money on olympics games, cctv surveillance everywhere and such crap, it better also offer free and -to the extent possible- perfect and varied education to everyone, poor or not, same with other services, such as health care.

This petition targeting a very specific group of people is legally shaky since all should ideally be equal under the law. Why not just advocate much stiffer penalties in the future for such criminal actions? You can even include the removal of financial benefits etc. etc. This way, it won't look like you are just trying to punish just a specific group of rioters to a greater degree than under current law.

>>3545033
>the killings have already started...
True. And it's inexcusable to me. But there were so far few of them, and nothing really that is a "coordinated killing" or such.

On the other hand, all I hear here from UK politicans is that they'll "punish" and "protect" the people from those "few criminals" that are part of "gangs" or somesuch.

No word of acknowledgement there's legitimate problems, no real offers of addressing these, nothing.

Again, I want to find no way to excuse the people that killed others, but then I would also equally not excuse the politicans that pour oil into an obvious fire.

>>3544928
>>3544806
who is the chick in your photos EK?
it does not look like the older pics you posted with the blond hair
just curious.. and I think its pretty cool that you have established a sort of celebrity status here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3OTgTyujtE

>>3545180
i still use her as well. :)

>>3545180
oh, and to actually answer your question:
http://www.youtube.com/user/FactVsReligion

I am amazed at the lack of sympathy for the rioters here on 4chan considering how young the average person is here. Young people are a minority in the West with little political power. The baby boomer generation has continually voted for lower taxers during their peak earning years, running up a high debt for the young to pay. Then when cuts finally become necessary, they cut programs that benefit the youth first and mostly maintain benefits for the old. The boomers ruined the economy, ran up debts, and now they want the young to pay for their mistakes. Not to mention the fact that the young are continually harassed by the police. When the old vastly outnumber the young, there is no hope of fixing this by voting. What else are we suppose to do but riot?

>>3545287
Finally someone with some sense. This riot is just a justified as the 1992 LA riots after the Rodney King beating. It is a oppressed minority trying to feel powerful for once in their lives.

so i thought i saw someone say that the government froze the petition
any truth to that? the total showing on the petition has not changed in about an hour

>>3545407
I can't even access the petition.

if they actually have frozen it, they are perhaps worse than the rioters, morally.

>>3545359
FUCK YOU

These are opportunistic bastards, most of them adolescents and young people who shit on law and the society.
Attacking private property and burning down someone's home isn't political, its barbaric.
These people are animals and need to be tempered.

>>3545287
>What else are we suppose to do but riot?
You can go fuck yourselves and giggle at all pile of shoes you stole from your latest looting haul.

>>3545407
the total showing on the petition is 79,519
thats exactly what it was when i started this thread over two hours ago
i wonder if they used the involvement of Anonymous as an excuse for disabling the petition?
thats the first cause that comes to mind that to me seems plausable
or perhaps because threads like this are being generated by forigners (im in texas)
by the way, im op and i posted this >>3544961
and not even one person has even called bullshit on it
nice that because i cba look up the fine print that i dug into to cause me to have this belief in the first place
happened in part during bush and was continued under obama
if you care look it up for yourself

If I understand what HM Government amounts to it is that Her Majesty can go bowling with your severed head if you are Her subject if it pleases her and there can be no reproach.

>>3545567

>>3545437
The are young. They are young people who get searched without cause. Young people whose lives are ruined by getting arrested for possessing pot or ecstasy, when they have caused harm to no one. Young people whose life styles are criminalized by the government. Young people who are going to being paying the debts that their parents voted to run up. Young people who, because of their small numbers relative to the old, have no voice in politics.

>>3545482
ah, it just updated showing 83,763
and it showed more as soon as i refreshed the page just like it was doing before i made the post
odd that that page froze up on my pc at the same time i as made the post but inb4 conspiracy/mi5/loo etc
stranger things have happened out of odd chance

I get this FUCKING shit every time I try to access the petition, is this deliberate government interference or just slack-jawed incompetence?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, something went wrong.
Sorry if you're experiencing problems accessing e-petitons. There is currently a much higher level of demand than we expected.

You could try refreshing your browser (press F5) to complete what you were trying to do

We are very sorry, but we were unable to complete your last action.

We have been notified about the problem and will resolve it as quickly as possible.

Please click on the button below to return to the home page.

>>3545627
Safe bet this petition will get to 100,000 and then they will choose to set it aside in parliament as the insignificant bit of public opinion trivia that it is

>>3545662
might be low quality website design or crap server, no?

>>3545670
THIS LOL

Don't be morons. The Tories would love this as it would be an excuse to cut even more funding. In law it could not be applied properly to only cover those convicted in "the riots" got a speeding ticket? lol no benefits.

>>3545724
well i highly doubt that all the 100,000 are going to be residents of England much less British subjects so it will still most likely get thrown out with ease

>>3545780

True. The petition only means iirc that it will be raised in parliament anyway and hardly anyone shows up unless the whip is out anyway. But doesn't the site filter out non UK ip addresses already anyway?

>>3545795

>anywayanywayanyway

I'm a retard
Been drinking
But still..

(nokosage for non/sci/)

>>3545724
THIS
This is what what happens every time there's a crisis in the UK, the laws get much tighter because of one incident. This has been happening for many decades.
>Unions protest, country's going to shit
Bring in Laws to take powers from the unions
>One nutter shoots a load of people
Bring in draconian gun laws
>There's a surge in crime rates
Bring in over 9000 CCTV cameras and fuck civil liberties
>There are riots
A bunch of idiots are demanding no more benefits to rioters, and the authorization of water cannons

If this becomes a bill and get's passed, there would be nothing stopping them using the new law when there's a riot(or even a protest) for some REAL cause.

>>3545611
>Young people whose lives are ruined by getting arrested for possessing pot or ecstasy, when they have caused harm to no one.
>are ruined by getting arrested for possessing pot or ecstasy,
>arrested for possessing pot or ecstasy
they're breaking the law
>Young people whose life styles are criminalized by the government.
>criminalized by the government.
because they're breaking the law

>>3545822
>HURR DURR THE LAW IS THE LAW AND POT IS BAD BECAUSE IT'S AGAINST THE LAW AND DATS THE END OF DISCUSSION

>>3545819
1.they can already use water cannons, they just need to give a 24 hour warning
2.riots are never excusable, even if they're trying to protest

>>3545831
>they can already use water cannons, they just need to give a 24 hour warning
It needs to be authorized, I didn't say it was against the law.
>riots are never excusable, even if they're trying to protest
So you're saying that the Egypt, Libya and Syria riots were inexcusable?

>>3545831
>2.riots are never excusable, even if they're trying to protest
Are you one of those EDL numbskulls who insists this government should try to emulate Singapore's government, and then tries to start riots himself?

>>3545819
>If this becomes a bill and get's passed, there would be nothing stopping them using the new law when there's a riot(or even a protest) for some REAL cause.
what if this is whats really the cause?
what if some sinister non public manipulative entity desires this in preparation for a situation that it knows will generate massive turnout for "some REAL cause"

These people weren't protesting anything, they just wanted free shit.

There are a lot of people with real grievances over the cuts. Hell my university fees are looking to be 36 grand instead of 12 because of these cuts. But I'll be damned if I think these people are reacting because of the cuts.

More on topic, the law should stay as it is. The law is there to punish people who commit crimes and that is what will happen.

Plus I'm pretty sure the EU human rights make it illegal to charge someone with legislation that wasnt in action when they committed the crime.

>>3545864
>>3545841
I assume by riots, he means the looting and burning kind, rather than non-peaceful protest.

>>3545920
I dont know too much about the EU way of doing things but I hope they have the good sence to keep to their side of the Atlantic Ocean
Yea.. Pic related

>>3545949
lolwhut?

I keep in mind during this discussion the far greater tragedy that occurred in Norway and hope that us citizens of the UK and NI can show the same grown up attitude about dealing with the aftermath.

Some hope. At least Murdoch is on the backfoot and can't hurrdurr about it too much.

Also I think the situation in London in that crucial second day would have been better handled IF the MET hadn't lost so many senior officers over the 'hacking' scandal.

>>3545819
seems to me this would be the target
>over 9000 CCTV cameras
If America went crazy putting up cameras I like to belive that Americans would realize theres no way they can be a good thing as far as civil liberties are concerned
and would do something to end it.
By being persistant about physically removing them it could eventually be stoped.
I say this fully aware that the process of installing them is already well underway.

>>3545971
Homeland security mostly deals with immigrant deportation and guarding the borders. Joke is that in the colonial period that's what the indians were doing.

>>3545990

(cont)

Decisive action was not taken early enough as the MET was in disarray and all the Camerons and Johnstones were busy on holiday.

So personally I see a lack of leadership as a major factor in the escalation of the violence.

>>3546001

Good old "function creep"

>when they came for the poor I didn't speak up because I wasn't poor
>etc
>etc

>>3545990
The wall street journal's op-ed about it today is full of hurrdurr, so he is still at it here in the states.

or ffs
we must be 5 posts or so from the 1millionth posting of a study showing the limited mental capacity of blacks and apes to white people, fuck of to somewhere else.

>see thread
>CTRL+F "ex post facto"
>0 results

What the fuck /sci/ are you all seriously that retarded?

>>3546032
"First they came…" is a famous statement attributed to pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group. The text of the quotation is usually presented roughly as follows:

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for OP.
Because OP was a massive faggot, and on that day not a single fuck was given.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

>>3546119

You should be aware that you are the only person who has mentioned race or colour in this thread.

>>3546161
>>3546161
he saged a thread he didnt even read?
what a tard.
you are correct.
not a single mention of race till the idiot that saged the thread for it

>>3546265
its people like that that keep race issues in a state of contention
simply by never realizing that the matter has been resolved in the eyes of many
i dont ask people who are different from me to have more in common with me than a shared planet that we must all live upon
i dont seek to oppose any for their origin or heritage
on an individual basis each person establishes their own character
still Chris Rock said it best

"Man why you got to say that? Why you got to say that? It isn't us, it's the media. The media has distorted our image to make us look bad. Why must you come down on us like that, brother? It's not us, it's the media."

Please cut the shit. When I go to the money machine at night, I'm not looking over my shoulder for the media.

I'm looking for niggers.

Ted Koppel never took anything from me. Niggers have. Do you think I've got three guns in my house because the media's outside my door trying to bust in?

"Oh shit. It's Mike Wallace. Run!"

>>3546122
That's already been discussed actually.
In the second fucking post.

>>3544928
Hey, English, how's that civilisation collapse going?

Your riot officers who can only say ''Please, stop guys, come on, aren't you bored yet? I'll be your friend'' instead of using even NON-lethal methods put a stop to it yet?

Or is making sure criminals don't get a boo-boo preventing you from stopping this shit?

Fuck off england, you hold no sway in the world anymore. You keep trying to make fun of the Germans, despite the fact that they don't give a fuck about you, you got shitty because Russia told you to fuck off when you demanded access to their resources, you sit around telling everyone how great you were, and how great you are.

Enjoy your fucking nanny-state. How safe do you feel under the watchful eyes now? Now that you you know the people behind those cameras are too fucking toothless to fight back against a serious crime.

Why not just write up some more ASBO's, that'll stop 'em.

No I'm not american. But I enjoy waiting to see what OH YER WELL YUR CONTRY IS GAY response you have. I'll shoot it down now. My country is not gripped by riots that we are unable to stop because we're an island of fuckwits. Therefore, by not being filled with violent retards rioting for the sake of rioting, my country is superior.

I could like in afghanistan and my country would be superior to your old world relic.

>>3546599
Chris Rock

Had to look up the format of a British postal code just for this. Good thing I had nothing better to do anyway.

Number of signatures:
99,541

>>3549176
At 100,000 it goes to a committee, doesn't it?

>>3546678

I can see how your country is "superior".

>nationalism

This "legislation" proposal is ambiguous and is counter productive to the greater good of all UK.

If these people lose their benefits (if they had any), they're only going to get more violent. Society as you know it today is collapsing... There are better ways.

>>3549195
A general policy of making benefits a privilege rather than a right could prevent such behavior.

>>3549195
You could always thin the herd. These people have shown they can't abide by the social contract that binds society. They are of no further use.

>>3549196
Not anymore than the threat of a regular sentence.
>>3549203
Yet they are still there.

>>3549209
Not if we send them to Australia.

>>3549195
>>3549195
So for fear that a violent criminal will comit violent acts you would chose to continue to provide for them?
What form of cowardice is this?

>>3549195
Once you socialize a nation what other than death can be used as a penality other than the removal of benefits?
Even imprisonment is a form of providance unless they are somehow made productive through forced labor.

> take benefits away from people you don't like out of spite
> 12 year olds running the fucking country

>>3549220
Preventing crime is cowardice ?
Are you american ?

>>3549245
>implying life can be reduced to consumption

>>3549269
>don't like
>spite
This goes beyond schoolyard grudges. It's about criminality, and utter disdain for the rights of others. You know, looting, burning, breaking. But of course you're trolling.

>>3544819
Don't say that, I'm currently masturbating to the image of that ugly random whore.

>>3549298
Great Britain already have a penal system that deals with criminality, so it's not what it's about.
It's not about "utter disdain for the rights of others", because that wave of criminality wasn't all-encompassing. It was just looting stores and burning - as a whole, rioters didn't kill, rape, break into homes, or hurt civilians.
You're just unduly butthurt.