/sci/ - Science & Math

you fucked up the line, retard. you said 'is there evil in heaven' twice. you mean 'is there free will in heaven'

fuck it, have a rage-comic, it sums up the argument far better than your shit self did.

sage.

>I have no friends...
>have more important things to worry about

Yes you do.
Also, fuck off, EK.

>2011
>not completely ignoring bellowing christfags on the street

ISHYGDDT

dude, seriously, why should God take into account what you think about suffering and all that shit?

1) We all know that you didn't talk to anyone, let alone a street preacher
2) The 'free will in heaven' routine is laughably weak

>>3537451

Lucifer rebelled....which indicates free will.
I ain't saying I believe it... I'm just telling the story.

Atheists are too dumb to understand the basis of salvation. You wouldn't play a game in which you can only win. The Lord gave us the ability to make our path in life ourselves, and the greatest pain is nothing compared to an eternity in heaven.

Sage for religion thread

>>3537477
so there is evil in heaven?
also, an omniscient god will see that 'lucifer will rebel' before he actually does it. an omniscient omnipotent god creates a servant out of nothing, creating him with the capacity to rebel, and with the knowledge that he WILL rebel, and even will have the knowledge of the exact time he will rebel. and an omniscient god still lets this happen? he could destroy lucifer just by willing it to be so, why wouldnt he?

fuck it, its just easier to say religious people are fucking stupid.

still saging, lets keep /sci/ free of this religious shite please.

>>3537490

if you truly wanted this to be so, you'd stop trying to push your own religion on everyone, as well as your retarded view of what other religions are.

>2011
>still criticizing chritians for inconsistancy
>didn't update to a more logical thing: islam
ISHYGDDT

>>3537490
Shut the fuck up Rose.

>>3537490

Stop! FUCK! Stop! You cant argue in inconsistent logic system! By fucking definition!

>>3537490

well, according to G. Gordon Liddy.... the stories in the Bible are just stories, and no one ever took them literally ..

>>3537490

Sup EK

>>3537501
I don't have a religion.

>>3537507
you dare use my own spells against me, potter?
no I'm not mad, its just there is no religion thread where each point hasn't already been made here countless times before. this board is for science

>>3537507

U mad, bro?

>>3537512

I can! Come at me, Bro!

>>3537510
Some people do take them literally, thats the danger.


If they are just stories, then god was just a story, him creating the universe is just a story. heaven, hell, and judgement are just stories.

>>3537490
>>an omniscient god still lets this happen?
So.... You don't know what 'free will' means?

>>3537520

What he mean, of course, is that no educated person ever took them literally.

>>3537518
Well, get this!
In inconsistent system everything is basically true AND false.
That means that you are a faggot and you opinions are invalid, and also you lose even if you win.
Fuck, that sounds familiar.

Evil is present in the heart of man but no one would choose to act evil before the kingdom God (heaven), by definition. Yes there is free will, see the Devil, go rebelled against God. Seriously people, read some fucking apologetics before 'LOL EPICURUS WHY IZ THERE WAR GOD BAD'

>>3537522
free will even for the angels? is that what they believe?
even if god does give them free will then this doesn't mean he cant destroy them if they become problematic.
send disobedient angels to hell, as well as mortals?

If god did exist he'd be a total cunt anyway, i'm glad he's fictional. what kind of so called 'all loving god' would create a place called hell just to burn people in for all eternity.

>>3537529

I bet I learned that in Phi 501.

>>3537533
uhuh, explain the whole adam and eve scrumping expedition then? these 2 presumably have complete and utter proof hat god is real, and has made them, and even talks to them. if he tells you not to eat some fruit, you fucking don't eat it! how thick could you get??

so they choose to act evil? eating some fruit is somehow evil?
why does god create this particular fruit tree if it is not to be eaten, and thus serves no purpose? its just there to tempt them?

jeez, god is such a dickhead.

All the Christfags I know thank God for everything that's good but blame everything that's bad on free will. Someone is successful in life? Thank you God for showering your love on me. Someone commits a crime? Yeah free will at work.

>>3537534
I believe that was in math logic.
You are still a faggot.

>>3537533

You aren't really going to so Apologetics on us are you?
You're just kidding, right?
.

>>3537514

Well, you can call it belief. In either case it is not even backed by logic, much less reality. It does give you a feeling of superiority against people with other opinions, which I suppose must feel good to you, even if it's delusional.

Just sayin'.

>>3537543

This is what happens when you are a fucktard who didn't read the Genesis and is freely talking about it. Guess who tempted them, idiot.

>>3537546

That is merely your assessment.

>>3537551
Yeah because comments like that definitely aren't fuelled by a sense of superiority and righteousness.

>>3537554
Nope. But because you said that, it means that you don't know SHIT about formal logic. Still a faggot.

>>3537557

I did never claim otherwise :p but thank you for agreeing with me.

>>3537553
You can't get around the fact God let all of this happen. When God put that tree there and forbade Adam and Eve to eat the fruit, he already knew they would end up eating from it. If the tree wasn't there, Satan couldn't have tempted them.

>>3537551
Its not a belief, its a lack of belief. some people believe in gods, or other supernatural phenomena with no evidence to back up the claims, and i doubt them. Its perfectly reasonable. If god is real he can show himself to me if he likes, i'm willing to change my mind if theres a reason to.

>>3537561

It warms the cockles of my heart to think that you actually believe that I don't know anything about Quantifier Calculus.

>>3537553
>Guess who tempted them, idiot.
oh, right, my mistake. a talking snake!
<<<

lol, fucking dumb christians...
god creates he tree for no reason, god creates the talking snake for no reason, omniscient god knows the talking snake will tempt the humans he has created to disobey him (a commandment he issued for no reason whatsoever anyway) omniscient god knows the humans will be fall for the temptation.
omniscient omnipotent god still creates creation in such a way that all these events will play out like this anyway, for no reason, because he is a dickhead and probably just wants some drama or some interesting shit to happen.

>>3537574
*the

>>3537574
EK marry me

>>3537532
Yes, humans and angels have free will, that is the belief of the majority of Christians. And destroying someone for using free will sort of undermines the entire concept....

>>3537574
Your arguments are retarded, have no meaning from religious standpoint and generally easily "disprovable", and I say this as an atheist.
Well, you are retarded, so that's no big surprise.

>>3537582
lol, thanx for the appreciation hun.

(i actually will not ever get married, i see no reason to. pair bonding to a single individual goes against my lifestyle, and to me marriage is only a legal document (a useless piece of paper) and a tacky ring. i don't need marriage, just friends and relatives)

>>3537585
Well your argument is double stupid. Now what?

>>3537574
>2011
>Taking the creation story literally

BWAHAHAHAHA

>>3537584
>destroying someone for using free will sort of undermines the entire concept....
but sending them to hell for using their free will, to suffer the pain if having their flesh burnt off is perfectly fine?

>>3537592
>2011
>Thinking you can be a Christian without taking the Bible seriously

>>3537592
Some people do, i dont. i know its a myth.
<<<

>>3537574

dumb? come at me faggot, I am a physics student and proud theist

>>3537585
uhuh, that sounds really convincing hun. i've got time to kill. i'll sit here and wait patiently for you to refute each and every one of my 'easily disprovable points'

>>3537601
theist? which one? god of the christians? why not hindu or muslim?

>>3537604

Did you Sage us? That means I won't be able to find this thread again!!!!!

>>3537601
I am dissapoint.
Physicists should have more sense and value evidence rather than bronze age texts or hearsay.

>>3537601

uh-oh! you done effed-up.. I'm a Non-Theist and a 25 year old power lifter!

...Well, depending on who you talk to,
There is no hell <Jehova's witness // aka the watchtower>
Supposedly that is actually lies spread by the devil....? Because he is in hell....

>>3537612
lies that somehow made their way into the bible?
oh fuck, the devil is pretty darn sneaky!

>>3537602
God is by definition omniscient. Remember how you couldn't understand calculus when you were dumb kid?
Well, God's master plan is something like that x1000. So you can't possibly understand it, but it leads to a maximal amount of "good" possible.
Here, I just explained every controversy with some bullshit.

>>3537598

actually, it depends on how you define 'Christian'....If you think Jesus was a man who had encountered Buddhist missionaries in Alexandria, and thought maybe he should pass on what he learned to the home town folk... and all that he REALLY said was "You ain't going to hell. Who says so? I do!" ... then you can CALL yourself a 'Christian', no harm, no foul.

>>3537622
That was a good-ass movie.

>>3537621

but Omniscience logically implies God knows what I'm going to do with 100% certainty... and the odds of me doing something that he knows I'm going to do are 100%..... so.... I'm afraid Free Will is a Delusion....

>2011
>believing in a religion
How the fuck do these guys graduate HS ? Or even Middle school ?
Because you'd have to be pretty much braindead to buy this bullshit, seriously.

>>3537628

Well, I thought so.

>>3537621
actually only certain versions of god are omniscient. some people think he is, some think he's not. but i'll play along for now.

keep in mind that there are passages in the bible portraying events that include god changing his mind, or testing people. for an imniscient god this should not happen, so most moderate theists nowadays tend to think he isn't actually omniscient (or just knows the present and past in its entirety, god does not know the future)

an omniscient god wouldnt need to flood the world and restart creation, a truly omniscient god would forsee his failure at creation version 1.01 (technically a divine god shouldn't ever fail at any task, including creation...but hey, since when was theology ever consistent?)
if god was truly omniscient, he'd start creation properly the first time, and have noah and an arc full of animals as his starting creation, and never do the whole adam and eve thing, as he knows it will fail, and lead to him flooding everything.

also, god trolling (testing?) abraham and having him sacrifice his son isaac to him as a blood sacrifice, wouldnt need to be done. an omniscient god would know abrahams faith is unshakable, and that he will even kill his beloved son, so god doesnt even need to do the test if he is omniscient, so presumably he must not be.

>>3537636

I believe OCD plays a huge part in it.

He says it right off the bat:
>Sorry /sci/ another religion thread.

Report, sage, hide.

>>3537633
Well, now I gonna state that God is also omnipotent by definition. So he can make it that you still have free will, while knowing everything you would do.
Don't bring up stone paradox or whatever it's called, he can lift and not lift it simultaneously.

also, Fear of god [is not / was not] mean't be fear of hell
...More a fear of his disappointment as i understand it
...Sorry /sci =D

>>3537650
same thing?
his disapointment in you leads to you going to hell.

>>3537650
Or to his sending fire from heaven to annihilate you and your village. Fear of God indeed.

>>3537639
Reading comprehension fail. You can't possibly understand it. Besides, I'm not even trying to say that Bible is 100% precise. That is too part of a plan.
I don't expect you to understand, because concept of absolutes seem to be hard for you.

Whatever, I will be the one laughing when I am next to Him. In the meantime I will keep learning about how his fine tuned universe works.

It is so fucking sad that these discussions exist on /sci/.

I don't even want to imagine that there are people on this board that believe in talking snakes, walking on water, resurrecting the dead, virgin births.

Fuck its frustrating.

>>3537444
OP, you're over-complicating it.
It goes this way:
"Is 1=3?"
"No"
"You're not christian and just assumed all christians are retarded.

>>Not from the bible but what the heck

If God had an Imagination, how Real would it be?

>>3537664
>Reading comprehension fail.

which bit? are you actually going to respond properly and explain where I might be wrong, or are you going to continue just being vague and irritating?

>>3537666
>666
lol, figures.

> In the meantime I will keep learning about how his fine tuned universe works

uhuh,
<<<

>>3537622
That's true semantically, but that's also the reason why nowhere near the full 2.1 billion 'Christians' of today will be saved if God is real. It's foolish to believe that if God is real, the Bible would be anything but the literal word of God.

>>3537671
I explained it properly, and 2 times already. Not my problem you can't understand how omniscience works.

>>3537666

How can you be so sure you are going to be saved?

>>3537666
See? Even in the case that this fucking sadistic asshole god exists, it would be completely fine for those "saved" to be LAUGHING AT THE TORTURE OF PERFECTLY MORAL PEOPLE WHO REFUSED TO BELIEVE BASED ON NOTHING, AND REFUSED TO SUCK GODS COCK LIKE YOU SORRY IMMORAL MOTHERFUCKERS LOOKING FOR A REWARD.

Yes, I mad.

>>3537587
you've broken my heart EK, can we atleast have sex? You know in the name of science

>>3537679

Omniscience 'works' by God being outside of our Spacetime and being able to see everything in one static picture.
If you don't like that .....tough titty.

>>3537679
>So he (god) can make it that you still have free will, while knowing everything you would do.

then explain why he would:
A: fail at creation the first time, fully knowing the outcome of events and that flooding will be necessary
B. change his mind, if god can never be wrong.
>"So the Lord changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people."
>Exodus 32:14"
C: test people in the bible, like abraham, Jonah, etc. when an omniscient god knows how events will play out, so know test need performing if god already knows the result of such tests.

>>3537693

I'm going to have to demand you take pictures. So we know it really happened.

>>3537693
lol, how would that be in the name of science?

>>3537704

It's Biological Research! Aren't you a Team Player?

>>3537704
We could examine the effect sexual pleasure has on a young female while she attempt to do mundane tasks.

>>3537705
hahah! very funny.
no free passes, hun. you want my affection you will have to earn it. you will have to find me IRL, and be charming, witty and intelligent like the others must.

>>3537700
>2011
>Says "still saging, lets keep /sci/ free of this religious shite please"
>Continues to argue about religion for a further hour

You are the most tripfaggy of all the tripfags EK

>>3537711
hah, good point...

my earlier sages seemed to be futile, people were bumping the thread anyway.

besides, the discussion piqued my interest, i had a few things i wanted to say on the matter.

>>3537699
Don't quite get what's wrong with that.
>>3537700
Bible is not accurate, stop bringing it up. I'm not using Harry Potter books to prove you are wrong.
Overall, everything that happens leads to maximum amount of "good". You just don't understand that.

Everything I write is bullshit, yet you can't disprove it.

>>3537710
damn, I will find you EK, you won't know who I am and when I cum, I will scream 'IN THE NAME OF /SCI/' then and only then will you know you're being screwed by a nerd

Continental eurofag here.

Analytic discourse about theism/atheism is really boring, yet apparently it is all you brits & americans go on and on.

Although I enjoy debating religious matters even among friends, I'm sick of your New Atheism vs. New Protestantism discourse.

You'll never convince anyone by telling him that
Physics textbook > Bible

however, it is quite plausible to convince someone literate enough that
religious existentialism > mysticism > religion.

Religious existentialism is pretty much harmless. Ever seen Sufi terrorists?