/sci/ - Science & Math

>/econ/

what does /faith/ think of the fact that the number of Christians are declining?

>>3526981
Monday? Same shit as usual? Neither of us get laid.

also sterling becomes reserve currency and american signs a slavery agreement with china

shit will be so so cash

not american cash though, stay away from that crap

Studying for CalcII final.

God damn economics needs such hard math:(

>>3527018
>>3527018

oh boy...

>>3527028

class average for first exam: 35%
second mid-term: 55%
third midterm: 50%

Ya it's hard.

Some retards who thing the S&P rating maters will dump their stock, and the markets will dip early. Then the market will absorb the dip and essentially take all the retards' money.

>>3527052

No, you guys are just retarded. I did poorly on my Calc II midterm because I didn't study or learn the material. I aced the final because I did study and learn the material. Why don't you try doing that?

>>3527071
> not realising the USA has now been officially declared a fucking basket case
> the markets won't care
> they'll also totally forget about the euro nightmare

>>3527018
>>3527052
reminds me of my calc expirience

>study 30 minutes/day for class
>get 100 on exams
>class avg is in 60s (wtf)
>get 90 on final
>prof still needs to bump the final grades up by 3 pts

Other people who did well in calc 2 needed to study less than me. The people who did bad just didn't even study at all. Just do the homework if you want to do well.

>>3527149

>Super perfect Mega Credit down to Mega Credit
>2 out of 3 rating agencys affirm USA AAA
>Most analysis say this wont matter in the long run
>US bond prices have actually gone down

>>3527149
2/3 rating agencies give long term US bonds still AAA rating. S&P gives AA+ rating. If people moved money out of US bonds because of this (which is a nonsensical proposition in the first place), they would move it into other bonds or stocks anyway.

>>3527212
> USA debt now has lower rating than pre-2008 sub-prime mortgages
> still fine

>>3527052

Going into my THIRD year econ.

Finished:
Calc 1
Calc 2
Calc 3
Calc 4
LA 1
LA 2
Applied Stats I
Mathematical Stats I
Mathematical Stats II

Stay beta.

PS: Econfucks, Mathematical Statistics II was definitely, absolfuckinglutely, the most difficult math class out of everything I have taken.

And if you don't take this class, you don't deserve to be in econ.

>>3527245
will you people shut the fuck up about the details of your shitty degrees, nobody gives a fuck. contribute or gtfo.

>>3527245
Calc IV?
What kind of wizardry is that?

>>3527252
seriously? differential equations. easier than Calc II by far.

>>3527245
calc 4? the fuck kind of school do you go to?

>>3527249

I'm contributing by telling econ kids what level of math they should be at. If this guy thinks calc II is hard, he's fucked.

>>3527252

Good question. My school goes;

Elementary Calc I
Elementary Calc II
Intermediate Calc I
Intermediate Calc 2

I just call it calc 1-4 of teh interwebz.

It does go a bit further than the calculus 1-3, not by a whole whole lot.

Then we have analysis I and II.

This is for non-engineering students (including physics and everything). We also use George Thomas' calculus book, not stewarts.

HOWEVER, for engineering students, and engineering ONLY;

They take the classic calc 1-3 with stewart's book.

>>3527257
>normal/partial differential equations
>calling it calc 4

>>3527267

And I do not know why I am changing from Roman to standard numerals so liberally, there is no significance behind that.

>That feel when there isn't actually an econ board.

>>3527285
>that feel when econ/statfags are using this board for their bullshit

>>3527279
idk the introductory differential equations course is used interchangably with "Calc IV" from what i've gathered at my university. although a lot of my friends are engineers (no homo), so it would make sense if their mathematical colloquialisms seem careless to those actually interested in the subject.

>>3527279

And at my school, (i'm the calc 4 guy), introductory differential equations I and II are not directly in the calculus stream.

We actually do a fair amount of DE's in calc IV, about a quarter of the course is all DE's. And then also a bit in calc II but not much (just separable and some linear first order i think is what they're tested on).

>>3527297

But the differential equations class(es) are two separate courses. They involve books titled "DIFFERENTIAL EQUATIONS", not calculus.

However, for econfuckers,

REAL ANALYSIS IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN DIFFERENTIAL EQUATIONS.

Obviously try to finish both, but if you need to pick one or the other, suck it up and do the analysis.

Dude, you think you have it bad?

See /lit/.

>Two semesters per year
>Not doing elementary Calculus I,II followed by Intermediate Calculus I,II
>Doing Calculus I,II,III and hence not fitting smoothly with the two semesters per year
>2011

can you fags start talking about the economy and not about what classes you take at your shitty community college.


no one cares how much of a loser you are.

they jewish stock market crashed 7% in 5 minutes and hat to be closed today.

looks like the asian open in 2 hours is gonna be fun.

>>3527371

>implying econ students know anything about the real world economy

laughingeconomists.jpg

>>3527371
>>3527371
>>3527371
>>3527371
>>3527371
>>3527371
>>3527371
>>3527371
>>3527371

yes, thank you.

shut the fuck up, all of you losers. CHRIST.

>>3527379
what's the jewish stock market?

Haha! Soon this country wont even have an economy and all you econ/math majors will be unemployed.

>>3527392
tel aviv, they are giant faggots who get to trade on sundays. Their ''so called week'' is sunday to thursday. so the slimy jewish faggots get to trade on sunday and undercut the rest of the world.

>>3527394

>implying if and econ or math major's comparative advantage discipline were to vanish, they wouldn't still have a comparative advantage over everyone else anyway and get employed immediately in another sector

laughingeconomists.jpg

>>3527394
They're already unemployed.

Im going to go play the piano with some friends. What are you doing monday?

that feel when i bought gold just because of... because of.

Now it's goddamn expensive, LULZ.

>>3527449
> resident /sci/ economist
> doesn't care about world economy tomorrow
> thinks this makes him cool

The beginning of the end, begins.
The stock market will crash in what will become known as "black monday."
Congress will become angry with president Obama and impeach him on made up charges.
The american people, led by the Tea Party will demand swift change in government, leading to widespread rioting in major cities.
In the midst of this chaos, one ambitious general will lead the U.S. Army into the capital building, holding placing the members of congress under arrest until a new government can be formed.

Third world countries will notice that the United States is leaving the Global Sphere for the time being and all hell will break loose.
In Asia China will invade India in order to settle their long lasting border disputes.
China will also take the opportunity to launch a full scale naval blockade of Taiwan.
North Korea will invade South Korea, with the Japanese people refusing to take any active part in the wars going on around them, althought they will seize control of the neighboring islands that they've been arguing with China over for years.

In Africa every dictorial government will invade every democracy, leading to many drawn out and bloody wars.

In Europe Russia will invade Georgia, and other East Block counties, attempting to bring Russia back to its former glory.

The European States, seeing war breaking out everywhere, will seek to make the European Union their official federal government, and create the Largest cooperative Armed Forces, history has ever seen.

>>3527478

>>3527478
Meanwhile, in Australia, it's business as usual.

>>3527475

Why do you guys think the economy is going to die on monday?

I catalog every prediction I see on the internet, many of which are economics related.

>>3527500

Things will turn to shit and in eight months to a year, we'll have 2-3 million people who are unemployed and have nothing better to do standing around the congressional building enforcing their constitutional right to alter or abolish their government.

>>3527525

> we'll have 2-3 million people who are unemployed

That would be better than the amount of unemployment we have now.

>>3527525
congrats, you've proven to yourself that you are ignorant moron with no basis to speak about such things.

>>3527541
wrong

>>3527503
1.the US (andf the world's) economy is in ther shitter, moreso than even in 2008.
2.the debt deal only created MORE of the same problem that got the world economy in this mess in the first place (too much debt and borrowing from the future)
3.S&P downgraded the US (which is a massive deal since the big 3 rating companies are american and are paid heavily to lie about the US's credit worthyness.
4. The Israeli stock market opened (the first since the S&P news) and crashed 7% in 5 minutes and had to be halted.
5. Thursday sawy the biggest points drop since 1st december 2008, the height of the financial crisis.
6.Correction mode has been entered, not in weeks/months but in days, signalling any futher drops will be a bear market.
7.there is no valid reason stocks will go up tomorrow.
8. despite the better than expected hiring on friday, it is still 100,000 BELOW BREAKING EVEN, the only reason stocks went up was because it waqsnt as TERRIBLE as expected.
9. People are starting to realise all stimulus did was hold up a dead economy and that is starting to break down now.

>>3527503
>>3527503


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgNLTb58K_Y&feature=feedu

Doom has been impending for thousands of years, everyone calm the fuck down.

>>3527548
NO U.

9% unemployment = nearly 30 million people unemployed idiot.

>>3527555
What does that have to do with anything? Aside from demonstrating that you don't know how the unemployment is calculated?

>>3527555
>>3527559

He said it before I could.

unemployment rate =! unemployed people/population

when do asian markets open?

>>3527583
1 hour

I have my trading desk open, so I'll post minute to minute market action

any sopecific stocks/commodities you want me to post?

i'll post charts if it gerts interesting.

>>3527555
>>3527575
>>3527559

What are you guys talking about?

Unemployment is a measurement of the people who were recently unemployed. I forgot exactly what it is. Its something like, unemploymented in the last 3 months, or seeking employment, or people who have sought unemployment benefits.

Anyway its an underestimate of how many people are without jobs. Because there are a lot of people who have been employed for a long time and dont get counted anymore. Realistically unemployment is actually like 15% when its listed at 9% by the government.

>>3527212

Are you fucking retarded? The value of US bonds goes down when they get a AA+ rating, that is why they are shitting bricks, debt holders lose money on the bonds and then the global economy inflates. It is going to collapse.

>>3527599

Unemployed is anyone searching for work while not employed. Once you stop searching you no longer count.

For example, this weeks employment dropped to 9.1 percent with 117,000 new jobs created. Normally it takes 150,000 to alter the percentage, but 193,000 people quit looking for work.

so what drop in assian markets do you predict guys?
I say 3%

>>3527600
dont forget treasuries.

Bond and treasuries are in a massive bubble right now. Even the US analysis admits it. T ills and bonds are a major player in the currency markets and have been a safe haven recently.

They won't want to go into stocks because of fear.

They will pour out of bonds and treasuries into the YEN, swissie and safe haven metals.

maybe UK bonds.

actually unemployment calculation formula differ a lot from country to country

>>3527624
>3%
thats an average down day. Thursday/friday were like 5% each.

remember, china HOLDS trillions worth of US treasuries (which will tank on the open)

7%

>>3527599

>economist
>forgets how unemployment is calculated

Anyways you're pretty much right, but it's not a "recently unemployed" measure at all.

It's a measure of the amount of people who are pursuing jobs who currently do not have one. You can be unemployed for your whole life, but if you're looking for a job then you're counted as unemployed.

The work force is the statistical population we look at, not the actual population of the country. That's what the guy was having explained to him. He seen 9% unemployment rate and then multiplied the population by .09 to formulate his post.

Do you think newborn babies should be counted as unemployed, unless of course they are work babies?

The interesting stat to look at is the work force over the population. Then we can get an idea of what kind of morale the citizens of a country are in.

>>3527657

He is still taking basics and is in his first year.

could anyone tell me how could usa make mistake calculating it's quarter I gdp growth? it was changed 2 times I think.

>>3527682

Getting all final numbers in. There are quite a few numbers.

>>3527692
it dropped from smth like 1.6 to 0.4
could it happen to quarter 2 results?
can government be trusted to give accurate statistics ?

>>3527599
six months.

to other retards who are interested: http://www.khanacademy.org/video/unemployment-rate-primer?playlist=Finance

>>3527679

I talked to him before, he said he's in his second year. I explained to him why he is not an economist and shouldn't be advertising himself as one. Still doing it, pisses me off a bit. But whatever.

Calling yourself an economist in almost all circumstances requires a PhD.

The equivalent of a physics undergrad calling themselves a physicist etc.

>>3527703

The second quarter will be revised. It is most likely too high right now.

Did the Israeli markets really crash that much in just 5minutes?

I know they crashed a bit but from what I read it doesn't say how long the markets stayed open and a lot of that could be caused from their protest they have been having over their standards of living.

this is what we are going to see today

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86g4_w4j3jU

>>3527285
If there was it would probably become scam/republifag central

>>3527736
they were down 3% at the open and dropped to 7% within 5 minutes. The merket trading was halted and the market wavered all day and finished down 3.8%

>>3527550
>1.the US (andf the world's) economy is in ther shitter, moreso than even in 2008.
lol moron. We're not even still in a recession.

> 3 rating companies are american and are paid heavily to lie about the US's credit worthyness.
lol moron, wat?

>mfw everything for the past 25 years in america

>>3527625
>They will pour out of bonds and treasuries into the YEN, swissie and safe haven metals.
There's no such thing as a safe haven metal. The viability of the US treas bond did not change. No one cares what S&P thinks about something that everyone can analyze themselves. Whatever the market does on the open will be because of speculators, not because of anyone concerned about their investment in treasuries.

pre-markets are showing extreme downside

>>3527856
>mfw i also saved that picture

>>3527858
hey guess what... you know jack shit.

Treasuries are currently dropping like a rock (i haven't checked bonds)

gold is skyrocketing (touched 1690) DOW is tanking

and what a surprise, the yen is strengthening.

denialfags like you make me laugh.

>>3527858

This, all day everyday. At least until that one day when the USD stops being the world reserve currency.

Which will happen, so prepare your anus.

however
>There's no such thing as a safe haven metal.

HA HA NO

>>3527625
There is hardly an alternative for treasuries. Big investors can't all buy swiss franc or UK bonds (which wouldn't be more secure than US bonds anyway).

Not much is going to happen. When Japan was downgraded in 2002 its interest rates barely rose, and it's not as important for big investors as the US.

>>3527889
>>3527858
>>3527870

mfw Bitcoins are still stable at ~$7.5 all weekend

feels cyberpunk, man

>>3527555
haha you're fucking stupid

>>3527889
>Treasuries are currently dropping like a rock
What? "Dropping" means that interest rates fall and that means that investors are buying lots of treasury bonds.

>and what a surprise, the yen is strengthening.
That's true, but Japan also has a lower rating than the US and its debt is at more than 200% of GDP. What was your point again? Japan isn't a safer haven than the US. (But of course it's true that Japan is still a good investment, mainly because ratings are often wrong or come too late.)

>>3527858
>>3527858

http://www.businessinsider.com/august-7-futures-open-2011-8?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=social
&utm_campaign=clusterstock

So how are the asian markets doing?

Or where should I go to see for myself?

>>3527962
Right, speaking of bubbles. Gold is pure speculation and hardly tells you anything about the actual situation. (Inflation isn't particularly high, for example.)

>>3527932
http://blogs.forbes.com/timothylee/2011/08/07/the-bitcoin-crash/

Better sell before you lose the rest of your money.

>>3527960
the only reason people still invest in the US and think it is ''secure'' is because the US has monopoly of all the ''major'' rating agencies and holdfs the reserve currency.

When it loses the reserve currency and their monopoly is over, people will see just how weak and fradgile the US economy and investments are.

The US has no intention to ever pay ack it's debts.

where can i hear people talking about economy.
bloomber radio is currently talking about usa education... fuck them

>>3527985

>>3527870

>>3527997
>the only reason people still invest in the US and think it is ''secure'' is because the US has monopoly of all the ''major'' rating agencies and holdfs the reserve currency.
...and because there is no real chance of the US defaulting. At least the chance isn't higher than in other countries.

>When it loses the reserve currency and their monopoly is over, people will see just how weak and fradgile the US economy and investments are.
If you say so. The US is still one of the biggest economies and can still absorb more money than other countries. Therefore, big investors simply have no alternative. (Unfortunately, the Eurozone isn't doing too well either.)

>The US has no intention to ever pay ack it's debts.
Well, S&P predicted that debt might be 85% of GDP in 2012, which is lower than the 100% the US has now. Besides, they almost payed off their debt when Clinton was president. So it's definitely possible.
You might as well ask "Does any country have the intention to pay back its debts?". Every major economy has significant debts.

>>3528021
>2012
That should be 2021 of course.

>>3527992
>(Inflation isn't particularly high, for example.)

confirmed for fed shill and/or typical euphoric american touter.

The US's inflation numbers are heavilly innacurate to be based on direct currency valuation. The numbers only focus on consumer goods which are tied to the wellbeing of a market. If people aren't buying tvs and football shirts anymore, then prices are lowered and thus inflation is down.

This however is an inaccurate gauge of inflation and is only used to gauge inflation rates in growth markets.

the price of commodities, eenrgy and food is thye real measure of inflation as these need to be purchased wether there is growth or not. Food and energy prices are at all time highs and have been rapidly increasing over the past few years.

granted, gold is open to speculative investment, but it is a much more accurate wellbeing of core inflation as gold is bought when inflationary trends are in process and sold during deflationary trends (see rally up to 2008 and then crash between 2008 and 09)

>>3528021
> Besides, they almost payed off their debt when Clinton was president. So it's definitely possible.

Confirmed for ignorant noob.

>>3528021
the US couldn't pay off its debts if it tried.

>>3528014

So, can you give me a link to that site?

Ib4 someone says wallstreet.

>>3527992
funny you say gold is pure speculation.
are assets pure speculatiuon?
is every other commodity speculation?
Bonds and treasuries must also be a bubble then.

your logic is flawed

>>3528047
its called my trading desk

>US
>pay off its debt

LOLOLOLOLOL good one... next you're gonna tell me that the debt deal decreased america's debt

Gold isn't pure speculation because it's an extrordinarily rare AND useful, desirable substance

okay I solved the problem
1. Gather all the members of the Tea Party together
2. Slaughter them
3. Sell off their assets
4. Butcher their meat and sell it as pork
5. Presto, Economy restored.

>>3528038
Yeah, who am I to argue with facts? Clinton did decrease the debt and left a surplus when he left office. (Before Americans elected Bush who ruined everything.)

>>3528044
Your (uneducated) opinion. But there are still the figures that show the debt becoming smaller (as a percentage of the GDP). Besides, why do you assume that debt is a huge problem anyway? It all depends on the interest payments anyway, and interest on US treasuries is really low right now. (Same for UK, Japan and other countries with a lot of debt. The current focus on debt is stupid anyway. Greece and Portugal were driven into a new recession by those austerity measures the rating agencies are pushing for.)

>>3528058

I don't know much about trading but I used to have a scottrade account. Would I be able to trade currencies or see other markets with it?

If not where do I need to open up an account to see what's going on?

>>3528064
>2011
>putting faith in a bunch of electrons/protons/neutrons
>not putting faith in the government of a bunch of electrons/protons/neutrons
I seriously hope you guys don't do this

>>3528061
Then you might as well argue that no country pays of its debt. The situation of the US isn't exceptional, after all. (Except for being the biggest economy) They could also fairly easily sort the whole mess out if it wasn't for those tea party morons they elected. Similar in Europe. If it wasn't for frightened/incompetent politicians, the whole thing wouldn't be such a huge deal.

>>3528065
>1.
They're hard to find
>2.
See 1.
>3.
Most of them are poor
>4.
No one would want their meat
>5.
See 1 through 4.

>>3528075
>>4. No one would want their meat
Duh
thats why we lie and say it's pork meat

>>3528073

49 percent of house democrats vote against the debt ceiling raise
> 42 percent of house tea party republicans vote against it
> those damn radical tea baggers are the problem

Democrats actually believe this.

>>3528067
GPD will be lucky to increase even 1% this year.

Debt increases by (on average but accelerating) 1.5 trillion a year

1.5 trillion
thats a 10% increase
lrn2economy

>>3528067

There was more debt when Clinton left than when he came into office. Hate to break it to you, ss.

>>3528077
1/10
really really poor, bro.

so /econ/ how much money can i make if i dumb say 1000$ into gold right now and sell right after the panic subsides? double, triple my money?

if my value goes under 850$ ill insta-sell which means absolute worst case im out only 150$

how long untill asian markets open

>>3528067
I don't understand people like you. You have deluded opinions and get all your facts wrong, yet you think you are correct

>>3528084
theres still 1 through 3 that makes your plan infeasible.

>>3528101
its been open 40 minutes derp

>>3528092
Obviously we talk about debt as a part of the GDP. And it was lower (and falling) when he left office and the retard from Texas took over.

>>3528090
>Debt increases by (on average but accelerating) 1.5 trillion a year
>accelerating
No. The deficit is projected to fall each year. It obviously won't stay at 1.5 trillion a year.

spiderman thread? spiderman thread.

>>3528067
no. you are totally fucking stupid and you know it. why won't you just fuck off? 'clinton almost payed the debt off'; what the fuck are you talking about? you are wrong, why the fuck are you arguing?

>>3528090

>>3528099
gold is @ 1684 and is expected to reach at least 1800 this year.

Historically winter has always been positive for gold and summer has always been negative for gold. Since this summer has been hugely positive, winter is toincrease gains. $2000 by 2012 if gold hits $1750 this month is likely.

if you buy gold, you make what it gains.
The strongest support is $1550

>>3528103
>I don't understand people like you. You have deluded opinions and get all your facts wrong, yet you think you are correct
Go ahead, show me where I'm wrong. So far, you haven't presented any numbers. Here, have a look at debt during Clinton's presidency.
As for the other thing, S&P said that debt will be lower as a percentage of GDP in ten years. There is not much to argue about there.

lol look at this faggot americunt! this is why you can't have nice things america!

LOL

http://www.cnbc.com/id/44051683

>>3528109

all asian markets are open? even singapore?

>>3528123
>clinton almost payed the debt off'
Don't take everything so seriously. He definitely reduced the debt. And if you read about the time, you will see that people actually discussed if there might be a problem if the government can have not enough debt. Anyway, see >>3528134.

Why don't you people bother researching before you start insulting people?

>88 cent whopper monday
>buy 100 whoppers on monday for $8
>put in giant refrigerator
>next week sell them all for full price
>make thousands of dollars

someone tell me WHY this won't work?? I'll sell them underground so burger king won't find out

>>3528136

so what? America has had everything they are getting right now coming to them for some time now.

>>3528115
>>3528115
im talking about DEBT you moron, not defecit.
besides, all of your opinions have been wrong so far.
Debt is accelerating at an increased pace and as I pointed out earlier there is a 9% discrepancy between GDP and Debt, so Im sorry your candy ass can't ear to hear your nation is a load of deadbeats, but them the facts kiddo.

>>3528146
>>3528146
>>3528146
>>3528146
>>3528146

>>3528146
>88 cent whopper monday
>buy 100 whoppers on monday for $8
>i cant into math

>>3528146
nobody is going to frozen bugers in massive batches from an unlicenced guy in a back alley.

>>3528154

>>3528145
as an uneducated lurker, I must ask
Is the definition of a debt for a country different then the definition of debt for a individual? Because I did not know it could be a problem if a government has no debt at all.

>>3528115

It took a republican controlled congress to keep the spending down. Republicans controlled both houses of congress for those surpluses. You can try and huur derp Clinton all you want, but the republicans congress held the purse strings tightly for that time period.

In fact, the ideal set-up would always be a republican controlled congress and a democratic controlled presidency. Unless you could sneak in a Ron Paul.

The alleged cuts are from projected spending of 10 trillion more than we take in. The first part of the bill cut a trillion, so we will amass 9 trillion in more debt. The second part will cut 1.5 more, so we will amass 7.5 trillion more debt in ten years.

>>3528154
>im talking about DEBT you moron, not defecit.
No, you were talking about the deficit. See:
>Debt increases by (on average but accelerating) 1.5 trillion a year
"Debt increase" is the deficit in the budget. If there is no deficit then the debt doesn't increase. (Especially since interest rates are near zero if you consider inflation.)

>your nation
I'm not American. But go ahead with your stereotypes. I wouldn't expect anything else from simple-minded types like you. I just point out your errors. My whole point was that the importance of debt is overrated anyway and that the US (or any other nation with a potentially good economy) won't realistically default.

>>3528170
I didn't say that it made sense, I just said that some people said things like that during Clinton's presidency. I wouldn't see the problem with no debt either. But apparently they were concerned that pension funds and similar institutions couldn't invest in treasury bonds anymore.

>>3528154
>>3528154

>>3528187
> But apparently they were concerned that pension funds and similar institutions couldn't invest in treasury bonds anymore.
>Amounts to a Red Queen Hypothesis for Economics, if we aren't working toward paying off a debt, then our economy is stagnant
I'm starting to realize that global economics is one giant circle jerk, if its not one thing fucking it up, it's something else.

>>3528175
And tax revenue was higher (again, % of GDP) back then. You know that the Bush tax cuts (which didn't have any effect at stimulating growth or creating jobs) will add about 3 trillion to the debt? Perhaps start by letting those expire and then cut your bloated military budget (again, wars started by warmongering Republicans) before cutting social security or unemployment benefits which will hurt your economy.

>so we will amass 7.5 trillion more debt in ten years.
Which doesn't have to be a huge problem. The US should rather spend more now and stimulate the economy and care about its debt later. Sustainable growth is better than short-sighted austerity that might trigger a new recession and, guess what, add new debt in the long run!
Besides, interest rates for US debt are fucking low right now. What's the problem?

American politicians seem to like comparisons with Greece. Then look at what happened to Greece when it suddenly cut spending - new recession and now it will have to default.

>>3528206
>>3528188

Ideally the U.S. would still hold a small debt limit if they had paid off all debts. Maybe 2-5 trillion, for massive emergencies.

>>3528145
> make totally incorrect statement due to being a fucking moron.

> "Don't take everything so seriously."

> "Why don't you people bother researching"

you are the stupidest fuck i've ever had the misfortune to meet. ever.

The price of gasoline will be 6 dollars / gallon by the end of the year.

>>3528220
you dont seem to know anymore than him.

LMFAO LOOK AT THIS STUPID AMERICUNT

WE SHOULD ALL MAIL THIS FAG COOL FACES IN THE MAIL AND CALL HIS SECRETARY SAYING U MAD BRO? Y U SO MAD?

AMERICA SUCKS ASS, IM GLAD YOU FAGGOTS ARE DECLINING

>link related
http://www.cnbc.com/id/44053113

this stock is declining like fuck, buy some when it hits 7.37 anons

http://www.google.com/finance?q=BAC

>>3528229
>cnbc

confirmed for fucking idiot

>>3528212

Clinton lowered taxes, and increased revenue because of it. He also lowered capital gains taxes.

You cannot count money you never took in as money spent or lost.

The Bush/Obama tax cuts are set to expire December 31st. Obama would have to resign them into law, again. He has already claimed he loves the majority of the Bush tax cuts, just not for those millionaires and billionaires (as defined as a person making 200,000 or more). Ideally, for Obama, he will sign all the Bush tax cuts into law again except for the 200,000 and up people. Obama is also claiming to want to keep the payroll tax cuts in place.

I would rather take the 2 year depression, than the 10 year recession.

>>3528229
What are childish people like you doing on /sci/ anyway? As for your link, while S&P makes some good points that Geithner can't deny, it's true that rating agencies are not reliable and shouldn't have much credibility.

They gave Lehman a top rating before it collapsed. Rating agencies usually downgrade when the situation is obvious anyway (the situation where they can say that they were "right"). More often than not, they are wrong, though. Like when they downgraded Japan in 2002 or Canada during the 90s. Nothing happened, nothing collapsed and interest rates didn't increase a lot either.

>>3528244
I wouldn't want to defend Obama. He caves whenever the Republicans ask something of him and actually governs like a moderate conservative.
>Clinton lowered taxes, and increased revenue because of it. He also lowered capital gains taxes.
That doesn't mean that Bush tax cuts were right. They didn't create jobs or stimulate the economy a lot. Revenue didn't increase either. So it doesn't matter how Clinton did it, Bush couldn't do it and there is no point in keeping his failed policies.

>I would rather take the 2 year depression, than the 10 year recession.
You somehow assume that there will be a 10 year recession because of debt, which is not clear or obvious at all. And like I said, growth leads to more jobs, more revenue and less debt as a share of the GDP.

>>3528254
The United States also wasn't 100% reliant on China buying it's debt at that point either.

>>3528276
>The United States also wasn't 100% reliant on China buying it's debt at that point either.
And it still isn't "100% reliant". (They own 10% of the debt or so) So what's your point? And again, he had a surplus in the end. So what China buys or doesn't buy wouldn't have mattered in the 90s.
(Besides, China wants to manipulate its currency to boost its exports. So the US can assume that China grudgingly will continue buying for some time.)

>>3528274

Revenues were the highest ever after the Bush tax cuts. 6 percent unemployment to 4. Sounds like they did help.

The recession will be from the treading water stimulus packages. The only thing governments do is lengthen busts and decrease booms. Get out of the way, let us take our medicine.

Where can i buy gold online? I don't want to physically have it, i simply want to own it to buy and sell much like stocks, as a paper-less, method of making money.

>>3527052

...or perhaps you have a shitty professor and your class is actually stupid and non-self sufficient.

There's always that possibility.

>>3528301
why the fuck would u buy it so high? just wait till it goes down in a few years.....

it is a giant bubble fueled by the fucking jews who are going to pop it when it reaches where they want it to reach

dont be fooled. avi

ITT: implying the US debt is a real tangible thing.

>>3528311
because if i buy today, after the market crashes tommorow the value will go through the roof.

if that doesn't happen, ill have a system in place to sell if it loses 10% of it's original value

>>3528318

So you would willingly lose 10%?

I don't see how the market will crash, the US is stable still, even though this cred rating thing is occuring.

>>3528326
yeah, i've got extra money and the chance that it goes up is much greater then the chance that it goes down 10%.

Wait until the FED does quantitative easing again. Hyperinflation paranoia will strike again and people will buy gold. Then sell your gold.

>>3528329

just curious, i have no money to invest but if i did, why would i want to do something similar to what you are doing? what do you see that indicates you have a high chance of gaining money?

tl;dr explain your logic

>>3528343
The DOW jones is going to crash instantly upon opening and likely have to be closed early due to the failsafe.

Look the asian market

IT OPENED FOR FIVE MINUTES AND LOST 7%. THEY INSTA-CLOSED THE MARKET

Basically we're all fucked i'd like to at least try and make it out with some money

>>3528353

The nikkei is down 1 percent, was down 1.5 earlier. Nothing to see at all.

>>3528353

please link me to the news source of your claim, i want to read more about the asian market. thanks.

>>3528368
>>3528353
>>3528367
oops my mistake, was the jewish market.

http://www.google.com/finance

monitoring this all day

>>3528318

You are confusing value with price. If(and it's a big if) the market tanks, then the "price" of gold would go up, but the portion of that rise due to increased demand would be relatively small. The real reason the price would skyrocket is because the value of the dollar would plummet. Worthless dollar = it takes more pieces of paper to purchase gold than it used to, and if you sell your gold, then you'll get more useless pieces of paper than wou would've in the past. Price = currency exchanged for posession.

Value is what you can get with your gold, and historically, golds value is the same now as it was in biblical times. The ammount of goods you can get in exchange for an ounce of gold is practically unchanged throughout history, i.e. two ounces of gold can still get you a decent horse and one ounce could get you two cows.

Getting extra paper is meaningless if everything else also requires more paper in exchange due to a devalued currency. That's why gold is referred to as a "safe haven", and a "trade unit." You're not gonna make money, but you will retain value/purchasing power.

>>3528421
so basically gold is for people rich enough they can move to europe and then trade their gold for euros

>>3528447

Or for keeping as a "trade unit." Don't get me wrong, you can make money on gold, but only if the monetary structure of the US remains relatively stable. If everything falls apart and the dollar becomes worthless, however, then it doesn't really matter how many pieces of paper you can get for an ounce if you can't then exchange those pieces of paper at any reasonable rate for goods that you wish to purchase.

when do US markets open on monday?

>>3528480

9:30 in the am.

>>3528534
thanks

where can i get the most rapidly updated dowjones/etc uh, number..

>>3528577

You can yahoo that shit if you want. The three news channels usually have them up there all day also.

The Nasdaq and the NYSE open @ 9:30am, eastern standard time, if I recall. Futures and other markets, idk, but that's when the big ones open.

>>3528608
i mean, i want the # updated like every second. is that available or is as i suspect the dow jones the product of an extremely outdated technology and times

>>3528651

They can actually update by the second, but they charge massive subscription fees for that service.

>>3528577
Also, for precious metals I go here:
>http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html

Updates every 2 minutes, and over on the left side you can select charts for other metals(silver, platinum, etc.)

Golds at $1692.10 and climbing fast as of two minutes ago.

>>3528676
what do you expect for an entire field run by jews

sometimes i wish they stuck to physics and never developed an interest in money

>>3528686
Forgot my chart.

>>3528651
google finance or a million other places

>>3528693

Lol. You never know, the world might be a better place if they had just stuck to money instead of getting interested in physics.

>herp derp gold is a bubble.

most people i decided to ignore you whinny faggots after you claimed it would crash every year and were wrong year after year.

>>3528299
Correlation equals causation, news at eleven.

http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=ALL&p=w1

>>3528814
>he thinks gold isn't going to crash!

>>3528878
>he thinks gold is, without giving any reason

>laughingwhores.jpg

>ANYONE WHO IS BUYING GOLD NOW IS RETARDED ANYONE WHO IS BUYING GOLD NOW IS RETARDED ANYONE WHO IS BUYING GOLD NOW IS RETARDED ANYONE WHO IS BUYING GOLD NOW IS RETARDED ANYONE WHO IS BUYING GOLD NOW IS RETARDED ANYONE WHO IS BUYING GOLD NOW IS RETARDED ANYONE WHO IS BUYING GOLD NOW IS RETARDED ANYONE WHO IS BUYING GOLD NOW IS RETARDED ANYONE WHO IS BUYING GOLD NOW IS RETARDED ANYONE WHO IS BUYING GOLD NOW IS RETARDED ANYONE WHO IS BUYING GOLD NOW IS RETARDED ANYONE WHO IS BUYING GOLD NOW IS RETARDED ANYONE WHO IS BUYING GOLD NOW IS RETARDED

Isn't a very weak dollar going to drive the stock market up tomorrow? I'm counting on a bounce at some point this week.

>people who say don't buy gold
>buy gold themselves

>>3528915
as soon as people figure out gold isn't going to go up any more they're all going to try and sell, which will flood the market and crash the price

this is pretty much what defines a bubble bursting

>>3528975

>buying ANYTHING at a ten year high

Seriously does the concept of 'value investing' not mean anything to you imbeciles?

>>3529006
> euro tanking
> dollar tanking
> sell gold rofl

>>3528988
in other words, buy gold next week. got it.

>>3529013

>implying a weaker currency doesn't allow one to purchase more shares in common stock

>implying these levels aren't tremendous bargain opportunities

>>3529026
enjoy losing all of your money in the inevitable crash

How are the asian markets doing atm?

>>3529026
You'd have to be a fucking idiot to buy gold at $1,600/oz, no matter what is going on in the world.

Tomorrow I'm buying MCD at 11:00, and if the market is still down at 4:00, I'll buy some COST or WMT or MSFT.

Only Galo Sengen can save us now...

>>3529315

so far, going down...

>>3529564

So gold just hit a new high again and is at 1711$

I know it won't keep rising forever but I doubt it will be crashing anytime soon.

>>3530212

>Implying the price of gold isn't shooting sky high due to a herd of paranoid survivalists who think 2012 is armageddon
>Implying gold hasn't halved in price right after shooting up in history
>Implying more than 10% of panicking gold buyers are aware that gold is the only metal that is legally confiscatable by the US govt by executive order
>Implying at the peak of the bubble this fact along with all other facts will not find their way into the gold hoarding public
>Implying that won't set off a panic sell
>Implying I haven't shorted leveraged gold ETFs and SFFs
>Implying you aren't going long on gold
>Implying half your gold won't be in my pocket by December

I sold my gold stocks a few days ago actually.

Shit's reminding me too much of platinum(which I made bank on) not too.

>>3527085
Massive confirmation and anecdotal bias, not everyone can comprehend such languages as mathematics with any study whatsoever.

>>3530401

Dumbass. The stupidest thing you can do right now is gold.

>Buying gold
ok whatever
>Buying gold when its at a historically high price
WTF are you doing

>>3530439

*is to sell your gold.

>>3530446

Its going to get higher, though an ideal purchase at the moment would be silver.

looks like most of /sci/ was wrong again, the markets have not plummeted 7% or even 3%

>>3530447
Gold is way overpriced. You don't want to sell it?
Retard detected.

>>3531410
> personal opinion
> retard

>>3531434
>Cannot distinguish personal opinion from fact.
If the economy doesn't collapse (far more likely outcome), the value of your gold will go back to normal levels, giving you a big net loss.
If the economy collapses, even a paper that says 'lulz I have gold' will be useless.

>>3531447
1. the economy will only survive due to a shit tonne more money printing by the west
2. gold is not made of paper you stupid shit. buy GOLD does not mean buy shares in gold.

>>3531455
If you buy a shit tonne of gold, you'll receive a note that says, you have 20 kilos of gold, stored at some secure location.

>>3531463
DUHHHHHHHHHRP

anyway, is /sci/ not watching the markets? they're going down faster than your mum, UK down 3%, Germany and France down more than 4%, same with NASDAQ. bad shit.

Hello world.

TSX -3% and still going down

Yeah, I'm just going to ride this out. I'm not selling shit.

DAX now falling faster than your mum off a cliff (STFU GALILEO), -5% now.

>>3531936
wow, how stupid are you? do you know what the stock market is?

>>3531447
If the markets and economy themselves collapse ENTIRELY, anything you have done with money will be worthless, full stop. EXCEPT for physical assets in your personal possession.

But honestly, that's not going to happen. Not even the Great Depression did that.

>>3527001

What about the numbers in Europe with the growing number of Muslims ? Islam also has the highest coversion rate in the US to any other religion in the world! In joy your white America while it last.

>>3531942
I own stocks, asshat.

>>3531957
you clearly have no fucking clue what to do with them.

>>3531948
On the other hand, that "physical assets" thing made a big difference during the Great Depression. Owning a farm or a house turn out to be hell of a lot better than owning shares in a company that tanked.

>>3531962
>implying I should sell low

>>3531962
yes, I'm sure selling now is a good idea
retard
lrn2supply and demand
everyone has the information that the economy isn't doing fine, the current value of stocks already incorporates this fact
he should have sold them a couple of weeks (or even months) ago, but back then, there was not a lot of info to warrent that course of action

>>3531969
> says 'i'm going to ride it out'
> then says he doesn't think it's going to fall further

>>3531911
>MFW the bulk of gold trading is in ETP's and certificates
>MFW you plan to go to a bank (if you're lucky enough to live in a country where banks offer this service), purchase a shitload of gold, and hide it in your home, for anyone to steal

>>3531984
>implying I am a day trader, and not an investor
I don't have time to babysit my stocks and try to guess the bottom. The stocks will go back up eventually, and I'm fine with leaving them there for a few years.

>>3532000
Also
>implying banks have gold to sell to you anyway

>>3532000
> mfw when you haven't heard of a safe deposit box

do you have any fucking idea what you are doing?

>>3532023
Not that guy, but you don't have to actually have a pile of gold in personal safe deposit box in order to own gold.

Unless you think the entire system is going to go Mad Max, I suppose.

>>3532008
cool story bro, enjoy your failure to increase your stocks by more than 10% over the last few days by spending five minutes of your time.

>>3532029
>implying my entire portfolio is going to drop another 10% after today
IMO this is a gamble. If there is not a SIGNIFICANT drop left, then I lost out on all the fees for trading.

>>3532042
> implying unimplied implications

like i say bro, enjoy your failure.

>>3532052
I just don't think it's going to slide far enough after today for me to recoup all the trading fees.

Is this the time when we start trusting in corporations more than countries?

There are a number of the multinationals with AAA bond ratings.

>>3532105
Not quite yet. We'll see whether anyone learns anything about

1) Spending money you don't have
2) Giving all the money to rich just because they're rich

The US has serious problems with both.

National socialism places the success of national champion multinational companies above the interest of scum like us.

Is it wrong of me to watch the quotes go down and down and to get more excited as they do?
I'd like to make my entry into the market once it levels out.

And really what everyone is wondering is if/when/how that will happen.

>>3532110

will Disney make its own currency? I would like to diversify my holdings.

>>3532116

I'm with you. I would prefer to see it go down so that the new generations can take over.

>>3532023
>forgery
>transportation
>theft
>destruction
BUY PHYSICAL GOLD, IT'S A GOOD IDEA GUISE
If you really believe everything is going to get so fucked, isn't it smarter to buy things with an intrinsic value, ie, food, water, fuel, raw material

>>3532156

might go farming some beans

>>3532156
that's why ima invest in food production.

>>3532178
I invested fairly heavily in some chinese agriculture stock picks recently and that hasn't done well so far. I still hope it will eventually.

>>3532156

until somebody with a gun comes and takes it from you

>>3532183
Add guns to the list, then.

>>3532181

do you think the chinese government wants you to exploit their workers?

>>3532201
>giving them capital to expand their business and feed more people, in an exchange for a share of profits
>exploit their workers
what

>>3532181

Investing in communist country.
Notsureiftroll.jpeg

>>3532210

they have very strict rules on foreign money designed to make you lose

>>3532214
>communist
>china
Boy, have YOU been hiding under a rock for 50 years. The political system is one-party, sure, but the economy? Communist? Lolno. The state has a lot of power, but since Deng Xaioping's economic reforms there are some ways in which China is even less regulatory than the US.

The very fact that there are traded stocks that I can purchase should tell you that.

>>3532223
Such as?

does anybody have a bitcoin exchange rate graph for the past few months?

>implying the government will let the stock market drop more than a little bit
the government will give money to troubled companies to boost the market, this is routine.

>>3532214
>communist country
the social structure in china is weaker then in europe
I'd rather be at the social bottom here
the chinese government is in no way communist, they are power-hungry dictators, that use the centralized economy as a way to keep a grip on the country
Your main point stands, though, their government is probably capable of taking your investment from you, without returns.

>>3532234

illegal to exchange currency, no?

>>3532234

http://www.beijinghighlights.com/tools/moneyconverter.htm

Changing money


You can exchange traveler's chechs or cash at most banks, and hotels always have a money exchange counter.you can also get a cash advance on your American Express card, but for this you need to go to the Bank of China headquarters at Fuchengmen or the one at the Asia-Pacific Building (Ya Tai Da Sha)on Yabao Lu. To change money, you have to have your passport at hand. If you want to change money in a hotel, you usually have to be a guest there. Sometimes if you are not a guest in a hotel but need to change money there, you can just say a random room number, but this doesn't always work.

At present ,the RMBis not exchangeable on the internaitional market, so it is only usable within the country. So when you are changing money, don't change too much, because it is difficult to change back into other currencies. To change RMB back into your home currency, you must retain the exchange slips that are given to you at the bank or money exchange counter. Then when you want to go home, you have to bring the slips with you to prove that you are merely changing back money you haven't spent instead of taking out needed foreign exchange.if you lose the slips, you can change on the black market (locations vary , ask a Chinese friend for details),but the exchange rate is not so good.and of course it is illegal.

>>3532240
I really don't know what you're talking about. I own stock in some Chinese agriculture companies that I purchased with US dollars.

>>3532247

you have copies of stock certificates? ETF or fund?

>>3532246
Interesting. Thank you.

It doesn't seem to directly affect purchasing publicly traded stocks, though.

So guys will we end up getting in line for food rations within the forseeable future like some doomsayers are talking about? From reading about this it seems like we're gonna go back to 200 years ago or something. Also I'm from the EU, will it crumble?

>>3532258
I did it through an online investing company. However, they've recently increased their fees ($4.95 a trade now), and I might try to switch companies.

>>3532268
>So guys will we end up getting in line for food rations within the forseeable future like some doomsayers are talking about? From reading about this it seems like we're gonna go back to 200 years ago or something. Also I'm from the EU, will it crumble?
This doesn't have jack shit to do with having enough food to go around, as a country. Losing your job could be a problem though.

>>3532268

Not here in the western world. In India and China though, maybe. My take on it is that the west makes debt more palatable through inflation which then inflates food prices again and makes the hungry starve.

>>3532282

Seriously mate, I would be very careful indeed about something like that. Especially if it isn't listed on the NYSE or NASDAQ.

>>3532312
It is, though, and the stocks were picked by the Motley Fool (I've read the reports on the legwork they did checking on the companies and their management, in person, in China).

Here are the stocks if you want to see why I've been sad.
http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE:CGA
http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:YONG

>>3532348

OK I get it now. The Chinese have been trying to stop the inflation that is imported from pegging to the US currency and its 0% interest rate.

You might win big in the long run if they depeg. And lose huge if there is war.

>>3532381
>And lose huge if there is war.
What I've learned about international trade relations and diplomacy tells me there's not a fucking chance in hell of a China/US war. We're too interconnected to hurt each other without hurting ourselves even more. The US and China aren't exactly "friends" at this point, but they're joined at the hip anyway.

The wars still occurring in the world are very notably NOT in places that have a history of strong international trade.

>>3532397

Trade is good, I hope you're right. Niall Ferguson seems to disagree (Chimerica concept guy).

>>3532416
I'll look him up.

calm down we still got 4 months until the world ends

>>3532416
>>3532431
After a VERY quick overview, I'd agree that there are ways for the relationship to unravel, but the idea is that the relationship is so strongly mutually beneficial that other conflicts aren't enough to convince either party to break the relationship.

However, if one party makes a dumb move in the wrong direction, it could lead to escalation.

Like if the US defaulted and stopped paying back debt owed to China. That would be *bad*.

>>3532447
What about December 2012?

>>3532449

I agree with your read. The US can simply choose to default for strategic reasons due to its superior military.

>>3532449
Bad, but not world-war bad.
When you lend money, you know there is a small chance that you won't get it back. This is the reason the interest exceeds inflation.

>>3532449

the alternative is to give them worth less paper.

>>3532459
>>3532467
I wouldn't say that the US completely defaulting would CAUSE WWIII - but it would remove the only shield against war that I think really works, besides MAD, and that only applies to weapons of mass destruction.

We really, really need to honor that debt.

>>3532481

not world war but fight for influence between two major powers across the globe for scarce resources

>>3532492
Another cold war with hot proxy wars? Do not want. We've already fought the Korean war once - let's not do it again.

Let's keep paying that debt, and get our own financial house in order instead of shitting all over other people.

>>3532481
Obviously, but I hope that everyone here understands that the US government will not default (or hyperinflate the dollar), unless they have absolutely no other option.
It will damage their reputation, therefore, their economy and their power.

>>3532508
True. I just hope our elected representatives will continue to see it that way. If we get the right wave of protectionism/isolationism and xenophobia...

Right now the US has China in a trap. China has no alternative but to invest in US treasuries if it wants gradual economic change. Inflation in China is deadly dangerous for the regime there.

But seriously, the biggest threat to the US is its own military industrial complex.

>>3532543
I had never heard this side. How does that work? China wants to keep buying US debt in order to slow down their own inflation?

>>3532553

No. So that it keeps the currency exchange rate favourable in order to be an export driven economy. It needs to create jobs for the hordes of hungry peasants to work in factories.

>>3532564
Yeah, lately I've been hearing about how they're trying to improve domestic consumption. We'll see how they do with their housing bubble.

>>3532543
there is no market liquid enough for them to be able to do this apart from treasuries. It is in China's interest that the EU remains intact.

>>3532589

the one child policy ramifications are even more interesting to me.

>>3532604
Oh, absolutely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Emperor_Syndrome

Not to mention the overabundance of males. They're trying to reverse that, but it's a deeply held cultural value that won't change overnight.

>>3532604
as is the rise of male homosexuals and their role in society; there just aren't enough women to go around

>>3532642

didn't realise it was that interesting.

>>3532661
they should go to Sri Lanka. A lot of the men have died in the war over there.

>>3532672
A fair number of women in quite a few surrounding Asian countries are becoming the wives of Chinese men, if I'm not mistaken. I'm just not sure whether it will end being more "leaving China to find a wife" or importing one.

if I'm not mistaken, China recently "de-criminalized" male homosexuality. not sure if it's considered a mental disorder or not.

but lots of baby girls are found in wells, creeks, riverbeds, etc. brutal policy, that 1 child. and ultimately social suicide

>>3532642

"cases of matricide in retribution for a scolding or late dinner."
lol

>>3532688

Roman style abortions.

>>3532693
Fiction stories, but still. Trying to tell people not to spoil their kids so damn much, I guess.

Apparently the Chinese are overblowing the problem in light of actual psychology studies, if the wiki article's view is to be trusted.

>>3532696
strange how nothing under the sun is new

The downgrade is politically and financially motivated, U.S. should have been downgraded in 07, but now the downgrade serves a purpose

>>3532783
Continue.