/sci/ - Science & Math

marijuana

>>3485478
I had deja vu experiences years before I even touched marijuana.

Odors are an important factor in this phenomenon.

Memory banks malfunctioning, thats literally the scientific excuse. One of the memory banks sends a signal to the brain saying youve seen this before.

But my arguement against that is that when you get de ja vu instantly say out loud what you think will happen next that you aren't in control over and it will happen.

Every fucking de ja vu I get, same outcome.

>>3485497
my thoughts against it are that, ill have deja vu, and remember having deja vu, and then years later ill have deja vu and remember that i remembered that i had deja vu.

>>3485497
I've done that too.
If I'm having a conversation when it happens I say exactly what the other person is saying in unison. Freaks them the fuck out. lol

When in deep thought, either though drugs or meditation, you are constantly creating little scenes in your head. You may be talking to someone, someone may be talking to you, maybe it's an event around you, but it's all just thoughts in your head. What's actually happening is that you're tapping into a bigger collective consciousnesses and are seeing these events as they can possibly happen.

Now, time is not actually "flowing." Everything is happening at the same time, all the time, and you're only observing one small part of it. With everything happening all at the same time, the chance of you encountering one of these "thoughts" is actually pretty likely. These are deja vu's.

>>3485497

>inb4 huuuur duuuuur sheeple but..

I was once playing MW2 (omg no its mainstream!!) and i was running around and then I got de ja vu, it was the memory that in 2 seconds someone will jump out i front of my character in the online match but then from out of fucking no where a throwing knife will kill me from a completley random angle.

So 2 seconds pass after predicting it from the de ja vu and boom it fucking happened.

>have deja vu a lot
>one day i dream about something
>i remember this something, i know that this will fucking happen
>few months later it happens
>myface when i no longer believe deja vu is simply my brain fucking up

Does anyone else have dreams that they dreamed years ago?

>>3485520
wat

>>3485520
nigga you just went full retard

>>3485475
Either memories of the future being incorrectly filtered by the brain, or spontaneously developed fake memories.

>>3485568
>memories of the future.
>wat

ITT: full retard skeptics who have shitty visual long term memory

>>3485575
Well its just that there is no significant difference between the past and future until you start looking at it from someone's individual perspective. Who is to say where that difference happens? The brain seems a likely place.

>>3485551
>dream about dozens of situations a night
>months later you experience something similar
>deja vu is a prophecy

>have extremely realistic dream of talking to a girl i have a crush on
>mfw if it happens

I have no control over my de ja vus. I experience it, and I know I'm having it, and I can't change what will happen even though I know what will happen in the next 3 seconds - I won't say something different that what I already know will happen because then it won't be de ja vu... It's hard to explain, but I'm sure you understand/

>>3485620
No, the dream was a scene in a movie I haven't watched yet.

you're just a scared atheist

>>3485629
My dreams usually involve me detaching my dick from my groin and it grafting onto the palm of my hand. At which point I fellate it.

>>3485632
Do you have deja vu of your own thoughts?

I do. even deja vu of remembering the deja vu that just happened.

>>3485636
>even deja vu of remembering the deja vu that just happened.

Exactly. It's awfully hard to explain though I cant even phrase it because it doesn't make any sense

>>3485632
> Derp, I take 3 seconds to respond after someone speaks to me.

>>3485652
What

>>3485568
Between these two answers you have 99% of the scientific communities opinion covered. Of course /sci/ comes no where near to reflecting that...

When you experience deja vu, and predict the next thing happening, what is really happening is you experience the deja vu when the brain messes up your memories with sensory information, then your brain makes you think that you predicted what is now happening when the deja vu just started (a mixture of that 'woah' feeling from the prolonged deja vu and the brain malfunction itself). I doubt if you try it you could never predict something and actually write it down or say it unless it is something simple or obviously would happen. Finishing someone's sentence doesnt count.

I don't actually have evidence for this or claim to know it is what really happens but it is a very reasonable explanation (i think) for those of you who think you are really having premonitions.

>>3485723
this explanation doesn't explain visions.

occasionally, i have precise visions that stick in my head for days before that shit actually happens. the interesting thing about this is that the leadup is the same but i can actually change what happens.

unfortunately, most of my visions are of mundane things. also, i've never been able to induce a vision. shit just happens, much like deja vu.

>>3485772
What I'm saying is that it IS just deja vu. When you get a "vision" write it down. If it happens exactly as you expect, you are special. What I think is occurring is that the visions are inserted into your brain when the deja vu occurs. And btw if you can change what happens, how are you predicting anything?

>>3485806
So you think we are.. deluding ourselves when we experience deja vu? Well that just sounds like bullshit because corroborating experiences could shut that down in a second.

>>3485837
The fact that my theory would be falsifiable by corroborating experiences does not make it bullshit, but it does give you a chance to scientifically disprove it. So get to it and look for some corroborating experiences from reliable witnesses or otherwise show evidence.

>>3485876
Ugh. The reason I said it is bull is because I see a path leading back to the "brain in a vat" or "hurr durr inception" arguments about perception.

>>3485475
>>3485837
>>>/x/
And learn some basic statistics.
And confirmation bias.

>>3485894
I haven't seen you in these parts in a while.

>>3485894
I am not OP. And I don't deny that statistically, my exact prediction of a couple events that occurred in my life is completely possible.
It is still fucking strange.

>>3485887
I don't know how you made that connection sir. My idea is far from that. Your last two posts seem to have nothing to do with each other.

>sounds like bullshit because...
>I said it is bull is because...

You also seemed to backtrack by putting two entirely different reasons.

>>3485910
Tried going anon for a while. Dunno.

I think a much simpler explanation for "omg precognition" deja vu than any sort of real future sight is simply your brain getting confused where it is temporally. Something like a short lag in conscious processing of what's happening would make it seem like you're suddenly aware of the future when in reality it's just your higher order functions lagging behind your perception.

The sense of self, while it feels so central and unchanging, is quite fallible.

>>3485922
What of precognitive dreams though? Statistically improbable, yet possible?

>>3485931
Scientifically all things are impossible. Precognitive dreams are on the same order of unlikeliness as you waking up tomorrow and discovering you can produce unlimited energy at no cost.

I had always assumed deja vu was caused by some memory accidentally getting preserved in our brain's "long term memory" immediately.

Patterns in the brain leave behind an afterglow similar to a light bulb which was just turned off. If the pattern is lit once more before the glow fades the brain receives a brief transition period between patterns which produces an effect known as deja vu.

First site on google.

>>3485931
That depends on the degree to which they're specifically precognitive.

One of the commonest ones I hear of is "I dream so and so who never calls would call and when I woke up he called." While seemingly unlikely it's wouldn't actually be too rare, say 1 in a million. The trouble arises when every dream you have is potentially precognitive, so your chances of having A precognitive dream are quite high. But when you have it, you consider the probability of having had THAT EXACT one, which are much lower.

Google something called the Multiple Endpoints fallacy if you're not familiar with it. The idea is that getting A highly unlikely outcome is actually fairly likely, since there are very, very many unlikely outcomes in total.

>>3485945
Well fuck, I predicted two rather mundane events before in my past. I don't think you should be so certain that precognitive dreams are that unlikely. Perhaps for special events they may be, but other things might have a higher chance.

>>3485964
I'm talking about doing certain tasks in certain places, such as specifically holding ones head in a certain fashion, writing a certain letter with a pencil in third grade, sitting in a specific and memorable spot.

Or having certain toy cars arranged on the floor building them up with your cousin in a rather specific pattern that matches the way it turns out in real life.

That is the kind of precognition I am talking about, I don't know if it is so similar to "I dream that so and so will call me". Once again, not saying there is anything supernatural needed to explain this shit.

>>3485964
That's to say nothing of observation bias, where you can have a lot of dreams that could have been precognitive but where nothing actually happened. You don't "tally" these up in your mind and they're forgotten. You only notice the ones that are special, and think that since that it's unlikely it must be something special, when in reality you could have been statistically likely to have had such an experience, but you have merely forgotten all the time you did not.

>>3485475
You forget 95% of all your dreams. And then in life you find yourself experiencing deja vu every now and then. Because the conditions that not only you and others around you possibly are presenting to yourself. But the conditions of reality alone are matching up to a forgotten dream sequence.

How do you remember a forgotten dream. Via the stimulation you call deja vu. As deja vu re stimulate neuron trunks near the less formatted trunk of the forgotten dream stamps. It's a real pity the protein formula you stamp on your neurons are slightly different in your dream state than when you're awake.

Delta, Theta, Alpha, Beta, Gamma & Mu waves = your world being a vibrational world.

>>3485979
Ask yourself what is more likely. That the laws of nature have been suspended in your favour, or that you are mistaken?

>>3485980
>observation bias
I think you mean confirmation bias.

>>3485995
Fuck that, I'd rather have a naturalistic explanation. I've iterated this again and again. I don't think there needs to be any supernatural explanations.

>>3486005
I suggested a natural explanation of why you think you can predict the future.
>>3485806
And you just gave some bullshit that had nothing to do with it (I assume you are the same person)

>>3485995
That's an unnecessarily harsh rebuttal, I think.

One thing to consider is that memory can be fooled utterly. People can be made to believe that something happened in their life that was completely fabricated by the one who is convincing them, and those fooled are utterly incapable of recognizing it. I should think it is completely likely that a large number of experiences could be pure confabulation by the brain. Even a vivid memory you will swear up and down is true can be false. In fact, I think the vividest memories are likeliest to be false. I think some studies were done on "flashbulb memory", or those extra vivid moments people remember, and a large number of such memories were false. The subject simply took some suggestions from the experimenter and invented a memory he could not distinguish from real ones.

In keeping with the above, I would say that any experience that seems extraordinary with memory is simply a mind glitch and should be dismissed. Unromantic, depressing, yes, but true.

>>3485960
This article is excellent. The portion about stationary pattern systems in the brain was my favorite.

"Base attributes to physical stimuli are kept in a close proximity to similar attributes and are seldom moved or replaced after childhood."

>>3486029
>>3486022
06 is not me. I suppose it all just comes down to statistics and invented memory, since you know, supernatural shit doesn't exist.
Oh, and 6022, you could always work on being less of a stuck up cock.

>>3485998
I think confirmation bias falls under a general umbrella of so-named observational (my bad) biases (others being things such as selective evidence seeking or anchoring). But you are right that saying confirmation bias would have been more precise.

>>3486032
>>3485960
jk guys, I made these posts up because I knew you wouldn't read the entire article.

>>3486051
lolsamefag guilt or just troll

>>3486049
As I understand the terms, confirmation bias is when someone tries a bunch of experiments, but only remembers the ones which had the results he wanted. Observation bias is when someone performs an experiment, but only looks in places where he expects to see the result he wants and avoids looking at places where he expects to see a contradictory result.

Dunno. I'm just nitpicking. Nevermind.

>>3486047
I don't think you understood my post

>>3486078
The first thing you assumed incorrectly was that I thought the laws of nature were being suspended. The next was that you assumed I thought I could predict the future.
So sir, I don't think you quite understood what I was saying, either.

whatever the fuck "ITT" is

>>3486101
In This Thread (ITT)

>>3485475

deja vu is most likely recall of a similar experience or set of circumstances that occurred at some point in the "deja vu-ee's" past.

most likely.

then again, it could simply be the brain's attunement to the winds and eddies of time as it flows around each of us; some seeing further ahead than others while some not seeing what's happening at the present.

or possibly, something completely different.

Deja vu,
Perfect sense of the present.
Whatever your mind thought the situation was going to be, turns out exactly that way.
"Predicting the present perfectly"
Analogy with when you anticipate on howmuch a certain object would weigh

>>3485960
How does that work? Am I the only one who gets deja vus twice?

First, it's something in your head, then you experience it later on and recognize that you've seen it before. There's an impossible amount of things that could happen which makes it very unlikely to be something which could be tested.

i get them all the time. i also just experienced one as i was sitting here in the hospital. the odd thing is is i always dream of something, forget it, then months later it happens, however my deja vu's never end the way that i dream them to end (i normally die at the end of my dreams like that and i have yet to actually die lol)

i sometimes have a deja vu of a deja vu.
i remember that i had the same deja vu before.
sometimes i remember that i remembered that i had the deja vu before.
and sometimes i remember that i remembered that i had remembered that i had that deja vu before.
fucking deja vu going inception.

>>3485723
>I don't actually have evidence for this

It's the scientific equivalent of last thursdayism. Jesus, the shit people will make up to avoid confronting premonitions.

>>3486225
Me posting again. I'm use to other boards being really fast and tried to get my response in before this 404'd. I took the time to finish the thread and figured out that

>>3485964
>>3485979
>>3485986

have addressed the train of thought I was in. Thank you, gentlemen. I'll delete my previous post shortly.

>>3485475
>>3485475
>>3485475
Don't know if it's been said yet, but this is it what causes it. (I should know I'm a fucking neurologist that had to study about all of this shit) In laymen's terms, it's when one side of your brain processes something quicker than the other side. (this difference is so small it's like a millionth of a second or some shit) After a second, the brain sort of resets itself and both sides starting processing at the same speed again. That's it. It's not fucking magic. You can't see the future. Nothing fancy, just your brain spazzing out for a millisecond.

doing something that causes similar neurons to fire to an event you did in the past, to which the memory is not quite there, resulting in the feeling that you're doing something you've done before, even if you haven't done that exact thing, because the memory itself isn't there to correct your mind as far as what is similar about the two encounters.

>>3485995
After being "mistaken" a great many times, the laws-of-nature-suspension thing starts to look more likely.

ITT: butthurt skeptics jelly that they cant dream the future
u mad

yeah u mad

dreamt the other day that i was going to make this post
and guess what
i did
u mad skeptics u mad neuroscience u mad science u mad reality

Deja vu is one of the few things in this world that utterly fascinate me.

This has been a good discussion. Thanks guys.

Precognition isn't a real phenomenon as such, nor is deja vu. Deja vu is most likely to be a simple brain malfunction where your brain mistakenly informs you that this event has happened before, and most of the time this will make no logical sense to you, and your brain freaks out a bit, which is where the feeling of deja vu comes from.

Apparent precognitive dreams are a bit less obvious to explain, but when you think about it, are quite possible. When you dream, and to a lesser extent think, you are effectively acting out scenarios and events in your head, lots of them, which will probably pertain to certain things in your life in some way. These things you dream and imagine will be stored in your memory, if you have a sufficiently good memory or you the dream is sufficiently relevant/unusual/exciting/whatever, or possibly otherwise.

Because the brain is essentially a big pattern-recognition device, it's possible for somebody to recall one of these memories, and match as best as possible to what you're experiencing. The reality and the 'precognitive' memory aren't going to be identical at all, but your brain can recognise that the two are a "good enough" match and you get the feeling as though you've experienced or dreamed about an event before.

Yeah... I'm not good at precise explanations. TL;DR - when you think of all the shit we dream about and imagine, it's no surprise that some sights and events seem familiar.

yes, many times,