/sci/ - Science & Math

government approval, beaurocracy, chance of human death etc.

It's not that it isn't safe. It's done in water shallow enough that you can simply swim up if the bubbles stop. (That's how you know if the pump fails.) You won't get the bends provided your head is never deeper than 21 feet.

A mass produced diving helmet was sold as a toy in the 1970s. Pic related, it was called the Aqua Bell. You'd fill the lower part with sand for ballast (It could be emptied later so it didn't weigh a ton while traveling) and air would be pumped down via electric compressor. Nobody ever died while using it, although I don't agree with their decision to market it to children. It's safe, but you need to know better than to go extremely deep with it. This is something that could and should be sold at a reasonable price to adults.

>>3423685
Because, MS, that would just make too much damn sense

I'd fund you had I funds
You could always pull out the shoe polish, pretend to be poor, and register yourself on kiva,org, I suppose.

Helmet diving is available today as a tourism attraction. It's perfectly legal. But why should it be restricted to paid tourism? Why can't the average person buy their own helmet at a reasonable price, for use in a pool or their local fresh water dive site?

See pic. Tourists charged $50 a pop to experience something they could do any time they pleased if those helmets weren't ludicrously overpriced.

If you can only go 30 feet deep I don't know if there's a point. It does look more comfortable than scuba though.

>>3423718
It'd be desirable for tourism and leisure, and probably very popular in the Mediterranean.

Why did Kickstarter reject it, for safety reasons?

>>3423714
it's all about risk.
sell to a business and the risk of lawsuit is manageable-
sell to the public and lawyers for the public will hand you your ass.

this is why most small businesses operate just long enough to get sued, then put their profits out of sight, declare bankrupcy and start over again.

>>3423699
>You won't get the bends provided your head is never deeper than 21 feet.
That's a bit disingenuous to make such a blanket statement.

Fuck Kickstarter.

Run a Kickstarter-style program independently. Donations to a paypal or some shit, then spread the word.

Licensed Scubafag here, saying that these things can be pretty fun but are waaaay overpriced. You have any design ideas so far MS?

Saw your diving-bell style helmet idea in your hampture thread.

>>3423728

>>Why did Kickstarter reject it, for safety reasons?

They didn't offer a reason. Just said it wasn't right for their site.

I won't be stopped, though. I'll build a working prototype, document it in pictures and video, then design a more polished version for mass production. Then I'll shop it around to investors.

I'll show those buffoons at Kickstarter. I'll SHOW THEM ALL.

>>3423740
What faggotry, it's a lot more useful than anything else on there :/

I'd be tempted to email asking for another reason. There's a chance it just got read by an intern on her period.

>>3423738

>>You have any design ideas so far MS?

For the final version or prototype? Prototype will use an electric pancake air compressor fed from a battery pack, good for an hour or two. The helmet will either be fashioned from a 5 transparent gallon water jug (for visibility) or a bucket with a large panoramic viewport cut in the front and top, with flexible sheet plastic bolted into place as a faceplate and sealed using marine grade silicone sealant. Initially the weights will just be dumbell weights affixed to the front and back, although I hope to eventually build a tidier configuration using a belt with scuba weights on it around the rim.

>>3423732

>>That's a bit disingenuous to make such a blanket statement.

Why? 21 feet, or 1.6 atmospheres, is the limit beyond which nitrogen saturation begins to occur. Before that limit, your tissues don't saturate. That's why ambient pressure underwater tourist attractions like the Jules Undersea Lodge are in 30 feet of water with a hatch depth of 21 feet, so that guests don't have to decompress before surfacing.

>>3423738

>>You have any design ideas so far MS?

For the final version or prototype? Prototype will use an electric pancake air compressor fed from a battery pack, good for an hour or two. The helmet will either be fashioned from a transparent 5 gallon water jug (for visibility) or a bucket with a large panoramic viewport cut in the front and top, with flexible sheet plastic bolted into place as a faceplate and sealed using marine grade silicone sealant. Initially the weights will just be dumbell weights affixed to the front and back, although I hope to eventually build a tidier configuration using a belt with scuba weights on it around the rim.

>>3423732

>>That's a bit disingenuous to make such a blanket statement.

Why? 21 feet, or 1.6 atmospheres, is the limit beyond which nitrogen saturation begins to occur. Before that limit, your tissues don't saturate. That's why ambient pressure underwater tourist attractions like the Jules Undersea Lodge are in 30 feet of water with a hatch depth of 21 feet, so that guests don't have to decompress before surfacing.

I'd buy it. Hell, I'd buy that toyish looking one.

ah, a good lungfull of compressor oil

You'd never get this by helicopter parents. Nobody has to die, they just have to imagine their precious snowflake drowning and suddenly, lawsuits, lawsuits everywhere. And you'd lose over nothing because this is murika.

>>3423779
>Why?
There is a time factor associated with it. Also, your head at 21 ft is meaningless. Other parts of your body may be experiencing higher partial pressures.

>>3423802

>>ah, a good lungfull of compressor oil

I'm using an oil-free compressor, though. Were you unaware that such things exist? That was one of the important criteria I started with when designing it. Oil free, electric, and a 100% duty cycle.

>>3423732
>>3423766

The Mad Scientist knows his shit. You'd only suffer the bends if you were down at this depth for a long time. Since this is a tourism-y helmet thing, an hour or two wouldn't do you any harm at all.

Pic related, a decompression table.

>>3423812
my apologies, I thought you were allowing the morons to provide their own compressors.

I like it, but I don't see underwriters signing off on equipment that will result in sudden death when inevitably a drunken quadriplegic epileptic tries to use it.

>>3423806

>>There is a time factor associated with it.

Below 21 feet, yes. Saturation takes a while which is why short trips below that limit are safely possible.

The point is, at 21 feet or higher, saturation doesn't occur no matter how long you stay down.

>>Also, your head at 21 ft is meaningless. Other parts of your body may be experiencing higher partial pressures.

You don't breathe from those parts of your body. The relevant factor is the pressure of the *air* you're breathing in, not the water surrounding you. The nitrogen which saturates your tissues and causes the bends comes from the compressed air you breathe, not somehow from the surrounding water.

How much have you studied this topic? I ask because these are fairly common misconceptions.

>>3423812
Will it have a pressure gauge?
It'd probably be reassuring if it had something to indicate when pressure got dangerous, even if it was only an upside transparent tube with markings drawn in it for showing depth. You might run into trouble marketing it in the US if there's no kind of safety indicator, given the market probably wouldn't be experienced divers.

>>3423832
upturned*

>>3423832

It will have an alarm, actually. Inside the helmet. When the pressure sensor inside gets a reading above 1.6atm it emits a shrill whine that does not stop until you retreat into shallower water. There's also a secondary alarm which sounds different to notify you if one of the three redundant compressor motors has failed, or if there's been a power outage and the compressor is on 12v battery backup.

>>3423847
and this is all for <$100?
SCIENCE

>>3423855

There exist portable battery pack/inverter/air compressor combos for around $75. The helmet itself is just plastic with a hollow collar you fill with sand, and an air hose to the compressor.

My biggest concern is how much one or two additional compressor motors (for redundancy) would add to the cost, given that they must be 100% duty cycle.

>>3423861
one would almost certainly be safe, in my uninformed opinion. I think the chance of two failing simultaneously would be low enough for the third to be obsolete.
Also, I'd consider having a one way valve on the air pipe at the helmet end so if the pump does fail you at least have the few minutes the existing air provides you to surface.

>Victorian era technology
>Still prohibitively expensive today

Yeah, does seem fairly bullshit to me. Good luck.

I am a scuba diver, I think this is a good idea. just make sure the compressor is good because whenever I use a hooka I only get .75 of a breath before waiting for the pump to catch up

try and cast the helmet out of some thermoplastic

>>3423885

>>Also, I'd consider having a one way valve on the air pipe at the helmet end so if the pump does fail you at least have the few minutes the existing air provides you to surface.

Oh, absolutely. And I agree, two motors should be enough. I doubt the electronics for the depth sensor and alarms will add significantly to the price either.

Feelin' pretty good about the idea. Low on cash right now because I spent a lot completing Hampture Mk.III but I hope to have a crude prototype up and running within the month.

>>3423893

>>try and cast the helmet out of some thermoplastic

That's the plan. A 100% transparent design. Curved mostly except for the faceted faceplate, as a curved surface would distort the view. It'll be a bit like a bay window, one large front facing flat surface, one more at either side of it at a 45 degree angle, and another overhead at a similar angle for glancing up. The weight will be embedded within the body of the helmet itself.

oh and yes, this does exist sans face mask, just a hooka where you use your own mask

>>3423855
I say this guy, who's my favourite tripfag (not too hard) and I even like his comics, could easily sell it for around 500$.

12v DC?

>>3423910

>>oh and yes, this does exist sans face mask, just a hooka where you use your own mask

I'm aware, but I'm discussing a system with no mouthpiece. You breathe normally, from the constantly replenished air inside the helmet. That's part of what makes it more comfortable and enjoyable than scuba for me.

>>3423913
the day I learnt he did PBA confused and impressed me. It's like finding out that batman has an alternate life as spiderman.

last thing, you might have some trouble finding places to walk. many nice coral reefs (at least in south florida) arnt very open

>>3423920

>>12v DC?

The backup battery, yes. Using an inverter it can power a motor designed for 120 AC. The battery doesn't need to last for very long, just long enough that you can get out of the water. You'll be notified by an alarm in the helmet if the pump goes on battery backup.

>>3423930
concerns about using high voltage in wet environs? assuming you've thought of it, but throwing it out there anyways.

>>3423937

>>concerns about using high voltage in wet environs? assuming you've thought of it, but throwing it out there anyways.

But the pump will be on shore. The alarms will be very low power, fed by thin wires embedded into the air umbilical. Some kind of two way comms system might be cool too, although it would add at least $20 to the price.

>>3423937
The pumps would be above surface, and I'm pretty sure that water would earth a 120V AC current anyway
The helmet would be plastic, and the only electronics would be two buzzers which'd be getting a few volts at maximum.

Here's the type of environment you could explore in such a helmet. Lakes with decent visibility are more common than you'd think, although often they're on public land and you might need permission to dive there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMo17RzYdig

>>3423940
I'm just coming at it from the industrial hygiene angle.

the pumps will be on shore, the shore will be wet, the people placing and operating the pumps may be wet....

I don't know how to deal with this kind of challenge, but I expect it may come up.

>>3423958

>>the pumps will be on shore, the shore will be wet, the people placing and operating the pumps may be wet....

That's fine, though. This system wouldn't have any outlets, like a typical portable battery pack. It'd be an all in one compressor. The housing would be water tight plastic. It's less of an electrocution threat than a jetski, which contains the same kind of 12v lead acid battery but actually goes out on the water.

Nobody's gonna know what the alarms mean. Make them digitized voice samples that repeat what is wrong over and over.

It's not trendy enough for Kickstarter. Just think: Somebody who masturbates to Kurzweil and thinks computers are everything wouldn't be interested in such a project, yeah? These are the people who run KickStarter.

>>3423964
that should do the trick.
I'm guessing most reluctance on the part of investors will come from drowning hazards which seem simple enough to avoid through liability disclaimers...

after that the market is limited, but most of the people that would enjoy it could probably afford to pay a fair premium to have it- and by being cheaper than the next guy you'd widen your potential market considerably. Marketing costs may well exceed production though.

Let's have a look at what gets funded instead.

Exhibit A: Fancy microwave popcorn. $17,000 pledged.

Wouldn't it be simpler to just use scuba gear, and walk around on the bottom if that really matters so much?

Exhibit B: "Bucko's Blessed Sacrament".

Midget with palsy does paintings depicting biblical sacraments. $5,000 pledged.

>>3423997
Did you see the programmable torch?

It's a torch you can change the timing for and it got $250,000

>>3424002

>>Wouldn't it be simpler to just use scuba gear, and walk around on the bottom if that really matters so much?

I don't want that. If I want to scuba, I can scuba. But I want to helmet dive. You cannot helmet dive with scuba. They are different things.

Scuba is actually more complex and expensive. It's only simpler in that it's already on the market. Helmet diving has the potential to be dramatically cheaper and offer a different experience.

>>3424007

Can't you already buy things like that on dealextreme for a dollar?

>>3424007
thats a 2$ uC and some 4$ servos

what the fuck

>>3423699
>You won't get the bends provided your head is never deeper than 21 feet.
the bends isn't really the major concern at that depth with inexperienced divers, AGE is the major concern.

Against the Grind: Documentary about introducing feminism to cycling.

$4,000 pledged.

>>3424021
probably
>>3424021
but it'
s <span class="math"> OPENSAUCE [/spoiler] and it has hex in the name. Easily worth the $35 it'll cost you.

>>3424020
>Scuba is actually more complex and expensive
it's also safer if you want to descend past 30 feet and don't want to switch to a commercial rig.

Parade group needs new trailer. $3,000 pledged.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gmofilmproject/gmo-film-project-untitled?ref=popular
>Are we at a tipping point? Is it time to take back our food? The encroaching darkness of unknown health and environmental risks, seed take over, chemical toxins, and food monopoly meets with the light of a growing resistance of organic farmers, concerned citizens, and a burgeoning movement to take back what we have lost.

Organic farming is the only way to reduce chemical toxins in our food! never mind the health risk look how much room it takes per potato!

Kickstarter, I am disappoint.

>>3424038

>>it's also safer if you want to descend past 30 feet and don't want to switch to a commercial rig.

Which amateurs probably shouldn't. This isn't a serious diving tool. It's recreational, for people who don't scuba dive. The sort of thing you might use in a large pool or public lake.

>>3424054
>It's recreational, for people who don't scuba dive. The sort of thing you might use in a large pool or public lake.
then you'll be facing a massive number of lawsuits from the families of children who decided it was a good idea to take a massive breath and swim to the surface from 25 feet without exhaling

"The power of Crystals: Learn sexy anger. Become the funky dictator. Embrace... THE POWER OF THE CRYSTALS! NYC's premiere motivational"

$3,000 pledged

>>3424067
Give it instructions, and don't allow unsupervised children.

>>3424067

>>then you'll be facing a massive number of lawsuits from the families of children who decided it was a good idea to take a massive breath and swim to the surface from 25 feet without exhaling

Why would they hold their breath on the way up while wearing a helmet that supplies them with fresh air? If they ditch the helmet and THEN do that, it's not a problem with the helmet.

A warning label on the box should suffice, since that's the only significant danger associated with its use.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/effalo/domekitcc-domes-for-all
wow, something actually decent. isometric tents for everyone

>>3424077
like anyone is going to read instructions to a pool toy or note the warnings. kids get into their parents stuff and fuck around with it while they're gone all the time. if a child is dumb enough to play with a gun, what makes you think they aren't dumb enough to play with a helmet?

>>3424084

>That's not a problem with the helmet

That doesn't really matter. These days you have a pretty broad ranging duty of care associated with selling equipment, especially to children. If you try that argument in court you'll get your ass handed to you.

"Voicing Islam Video Piece"

"A video performance piece for the self-designed Voicing Islam major."

$2,700 pledged.

>>3424087

>These open-source connectors

How can hardware be open source it doesn't have any source code HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE

Anyway I'm pretty sure there are normal dome tents with flexible poles that do away with the need for precise angles that isometric bullshit brings to the table.

>>3424102
Have you heard of the Darwin awards?
If you kill your children because you're massively incompetent, you're doing the gene pool a favour. If a parent is dumb enough to leave a gun lying around, can you blame the gun company?

>>3424105

>>That doesn't really matter. These days you have a pretty broad ranging duty of care associated with selling equipment, especially to children. If you try that argument in court you'll get your ass handed to you.

It won't be marketed towards children in the first place. In fact it could explicitly say "Not for children under X age", which many products already do. It works for them from a legal standpoint, why not for this?

>>3424102

>>like anyone is going to read instructions to a pool toy or note the warnings.

I don't need them to read it to be in the clear, just for it to be prominently displayed on the box and in the directions.

sledding kills kids all the tiem... you can still buy a sled at the store.

I think it's a grand idea MS, the biggest problem I see is getting insurance for the inevitable lawsuits, and getting the thing widely advertised without going broke.

>>3424117
You have to compile it from the source yourself, obviously.

>>3424084
if the child or parent doesn't know how to properly operate the air intake? how about if they freak out and ditch? or if the battery dies and they're forced to ditch?

and here's the key danger you missed: people who would want this and who don't dive have no idea what the dangers of contaminated air are at depth.

>>3424087

>> isometric tents for everyone

You mean geodesic. Isometric means something else entirely.

/sci/ - high int people who have chosen wis as their dump stat.

You can also see this on display in the Venus Project threads.

Just curious yall, but why can't buying this product waive any potential lawsuits? Like having to assume all the risks inherent to the item/activity. Sure it'll take a lot of legal effort to get that through but I'm sure it's possible. I mean, imagine how ridiculous it would be for someone to sue a gun company after they accidentally shot themselves in the foot?

>>3424130

>>if the child or parent doesn't know how to properly operate the air intake? how about if they freak out and ditch? or if the battery dies and they're forced to ditch?

See:
>>sledding kills kids all the tiem... you can still buy a sled at the store.

>>3424127
>>the key danger you missed: people who would want this and who don't dive have no idea what the dangers of contaminated air are at depth.

The dangers are explained to them on the box and in the manual. I am not liable if they fail to read it.

>>3424127
>>3424123
>>3424121
I've just realised we all agree killing children indirectly is a small price to pay for these helmets. Not sure if disturbed or committed
>>3424130
I don't think you can account for stupidity beyond a certain point. If the system is basically a box with a switch on it and a helmet, you can't hold the creator responsible for only telling you to flip the switch and put the helmet on your head.
>>3424132
Whoops :s

it won't look like the one in OP picture, right? because that looks like a penis.

>>3424121
parents generally don't. they hide the gun and the kid fucking finds it and starts fucking with it. the helmet and air pump would take up considerably more space than a gun, what makes you think a kid couldn't get a hold of it?

>>3424147

So you're prepared to sell hazardous equipment to people who by definition are not familiar with diving? Just for the hell of it? And you're counting on your EULA to save you from liabilty?

>>3424152
natural selection or dP/dt = Kp - (p/K) am i right?

>>3424144

Sorry, I hadn't refreshed this in like 30 minutes and didn't realize what i said was already being discussed..

Here is a product called Spare Air. It's a tiny self contained scuba system good for 30 or 57 breaths depending which of the two bottle sizes you buy. It has none of the warnings we discussed. Anyone can buy it without any proof of certification. If anything, it's more dangerous than the product I propose yet they have been in business for decades.

>>3424159
Guns are designed for maiming and killling, and if you can get to it without going through a locked door you're doing gun safety wrong. When my dad looked after handguns for a local shooting club they were in a safe in a locked cabinet bolted to the floor, for example. This helmet is designed for leisure.
I like the idea of a kid finding the helmet and managing to get over 21ft into water with nobody noticing.

>>3424163

>>So you're prepared to sell hazardous equipment to people who by definition are not familiar with diving? Just for the hell of it? And you're counting on your EULA to save you from liabilty?

Yes, because it works for existing products that are considerably less safe. See: >>3424176

>>3424147
>The dangers are explained to them on the box and in the manual. I am not liable if they fail to read it.
see:
cigarettes
guns
alcohol
household cleaners
etc.

>>3424189

But in this case the danger being discussed is completely unrelated to the topic.

Failing to breathe out as you surface is something that can happen without this product. It's something you need to know if you're diving, period. It would be like suing Pepsico because you were drinking pepsi a few moments before you walked into the street and a car hit you.

>>3424189
Smokers, gun owners, drinkers, and house cleaners (?) are responsible for messing up, and also responsible for letting people who don't have sufficient experience with those items get hold of them. Like I said before, there's a certain point at which it's no longer possible to pre-empt stupid decisions by the consumer, at which you write your terms and conditions and find a big yellow sticker.

>>3424189

All those things are very old and established, and very general. What you're talking about is a new, highly specific product. Huff and puff all you like, but I guarantee you'll be on the hook for massive damages once some kid's busts his lungs misusing this thing.

>>3424176
here's the difference.
>spare air: marketed to divers as a backup in the event of loss of air from main tanks
>diving helmet: marketed to people with no experience diving whatsoever so that they may dive without having to first understand what it is they are doing.

"This product supplies the wearer with air at a higher pressure than normal. When surfacing with the helmet, do not hold your breath on the way up. If for any reason you must abandon the helmet and swim to the surface without it, do not hold your breath on the way up. In either case you might exhale as you ascend. Failure to do so will result in serious injury or death. Using this product constitutes implicit understanding of this principle and a waiver of liability. Children under the age of 12 should not use this device. Youth should be supervised while using the device, and only when you are satisfied that they understand the risks."

Done.

>>3423926
PBA?

>go on kickstarter
>steal ideas and patent
>300k starting

"This product supplies the wearer with air at a higher pressure than normal. When surfacing with the helmet, do not hold your breath on the way up. If for any reason you must abandon the helmet and swim to the surface without it, do not hold your breath on the way up. In either case you might exhale as you ascend. Failure to do so will result in serious injury or death. Using this product constitutes implicit understanding of this principle and a waiver of liability. Children under the age of 12 should not use this device. Youth should be supervised while using the device, and only when you are satisfied that they understand the risks."

Done.

>>3424207

>spare air: marketed to divers as a backup in the event of loss of air from main tanks
>diving helmet: marketed to people with no experience diving whatsoever so that they may dive without having to first understand what it is they are doing.

Except the box and instruction manual give them a sufficient understanding. I have no legal responsibility beyond that.

>>3424202
see
>>3424193
>>3424200
If you let your kid dive without teaching him how diving is dangerous, you're a terrible parent. I don't see how MS could possibly be held responsible if the instructions clearly state minors should be supervised and that it's dangerous? America legally sells rifles to 16 year olds, remember.

Have you ever wanted to dive, but don't have time to become properly qualified?

Well the solution is here! With my patented highly dangerous equipment, you can have a poor imitation of diving at only five times the risk! Call now for a free legal disclaimer!

>>3424193
failing to breath as you surface from 10+ feet is not a danger you can experience without this product. you cannot take a fresh breath of air at 20 feet without some sort of supply, every other form of supply requires you to have a license to operate it, this does not, ergo; it is the direct fault of the product.

>>3424225

>>Have you ever wanted to dive, but don't have time to become properly qualified?

>>Well the solution is here! With my patented highly dangerous equipment, you can have a poor imitation of diving at only five times the risk! Call now for a free legal disclaimer!

It's not dangerous. It's not a poor imitation of anything. It's less risky than Scuba. The one and only danger you've been able to identify is true of being underwater regardless of what product you're using.

When did /sci/ turn into soccer moms?

>>3424224

> I don't see how MS could possibly be held responsible

Oh you don't see do you? Do you have any legal qualifications at all? Why don't you ask a lawyer about the implicit liabilities of equipment manufacturers, instead of arguing with vague analogies to handguns? You'll find the answer is much more complex than you think.

>>3424214
http://www.plasticbrickautomaton.com/
>>3424229
er, nope. You don't actually need a license for any other kind of dive, AFAIK

>>3424229

>>failing to breath as you surface from 10+ feet is not a danger you can experience without this product. you cannot take a fresh breath of air at 20 feet without some sort of supply, every other form of supply requires you to have a license to operate it, this does not, ergo; it is the direct fault of the product.

Spare air doesn't. Anyone can buy it. They have been in business for decades without being sued into oblivion.

Listen, I know you need to be right, but in the end you're not taking the risk, I am. It's my decision whether to build this and attempt to market it or not.

>>3424240

Dude I don't give a fuck what you do. The point is if you do market this you're exposing yourself to great liability and counting on the flimsy defense of a disclaimer to hide behind if something goes wrong. If you want to do that, be my guest.

>>3424236

>>Oh you don't see do you? Do you have any legal qualifications at all? Why don't you ask a lawyer about the implicit liabilities of equipment manufacturers, instead of arguing with vague analogies to handguns? You'll find the answer is much more complex than you think.

I'll find out that you've wasted my time and money. The lawyer will tell me to go ahead but to cover my ass, legally, with large print prominent warnings and explanations for how the product is to be used.

Remember, this product existed years ago as a toy. No lawsuits resulted.

>>3424236
Do you? you seem to be arguing that you can ignore clear warnings and disregard instructions and then sue because the product didn't behave as the instructions said it would

>>3424245

>>Be my guest.

Thank you, I will. :)

>>3423985
Excellent idea.

>>3424247
lawsuits certainly resulted, they were undoubtedly won by the toy manufacturer or settled quietly.

people sue because of their own stupidity ALL THE TIME.

doesn't mean they'll win though. You just have to have insurance for WHEN it happens. It will happen.

>>3424247

> this product existed years ago as a toy.

In the 60s, and it doesn't exist anymore. Now why do you think that is.

>>3424249

>Do you?

Of course not. However you seem to be willing to encourage MS to blunder into this simply based on his own best guess that he'll be alright.

This thread is a good illustration of the difference between intelligence and wisdom.

>>3424260
There's absolutely no base for your claims. This is a brilliant idea, and postponing it for some imaginary difficulty idiotic
>>3424266
who's who?

>>3424237
most dive shops require that you produce a diving license to purchase tanks or have them refilled, or at least PADI and NAUI both do. this removes liability from equipment manufacturers due to the fact that if and individual dies while diving and is not certified, it is that individuals responsibility for not having a full understanding of the equipment they were operating despite the fact that classes are offered to anyone 13+.

>>3424254

Yeah, voices make more sense than alarms. I'll do this. There are digital greeting cards that let you load voice samples, I'll scavenge the chips from two such cards, connect the depth sensor in place of the switch for one and have the other wired back to a voltage switch on the primary compressor motor. The little printed PCBs themselves can be sealed between two layers of tape for waterproofing and affixed to the 'roof' of the helmet.

Should be sufficient for the prototype, although in the final version they'd be embedded near the ear.

You need seed money?

Take you idea to The Shark Tank.

I love that show. Especially the dumb bitch who was trying to market in Zimbabwe to get around health codes.

>>3424268
The internets don't, and I know of a few places you can buy scuba tanks without showing ID. If the seller wants to cover themselves with demands for a license, that's fine, but it's by no means required
>>3424272
might be worth looking online for the chips in bulk rather than buying cards.

>>3424267

>who's who?

The fact that you can't tell which is which should answer that for you.

liability issues are easy to resolve.
you go talk to an insurance company... either they'll insure you or they won't.

if they won't, none of them, then there's no point in attempting it unless MS is a secret billionaire.

>>3424266

>>This thread is a good illustration of the difference between intelligence and wisdom.

Intelligence is the capacity to concieve of all the possible things that might go wrong.

Wisdom is understanding that we cannot protect people from themselves, nor prohibit technologies that are completely reasonable and which can be safely used provided a modicum of understanding just because there exists potential for misuse. There is, after all, such a thing as personal responsibility.

>>3424281
>you can't know something you haven't been told therefore you're claiming to know things you don't
wat
there's no basis for any of the claims re: legality, and there's no possible course of action one could take re: natural selection.

>>3424283

You would make a lot more sense if you'd market this to people who already know something about diving. But for some reason you seem to want to aim for the beginners.

>>3424240
this, again, falls back on who it is marketed to. you are marketing it to a group of individuals with NO FUCKING TRAINING WHATSOGODDAMNEVER

HOW IS THIS FUCKING HARD TO UNDERSTAND?
YOU WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEATHS OF PEOPLE WHO WERE ILL EDUCATED ON THE PRODUCT THEY WERE USING
AS A DIVING ADVOCATE HOW CAN THAT FUCKING SIT RIGHT WITH YOU?

>>3424283
>There is, after all, such a thing as personal responsibility.

not to hear tort lawyers tell it.

and they make a damn fine living telling it...

>>3424280

>>might be worth looking online for the chips in bulk rather than buying cards.

I only need two for the prototype. For the final version I'd buy the chimps in bulk, yeah. Probably the same standardized digital audio playback chip used in every talking toy.

>>3424296
>implying it would be possible to die with it unless you were a complete fucking retard

>>3424296

As far as I can tell he just doesn't give a shit.

>>3424296

>>YOU WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEATHS OF PEOPLE WHO WERE ILL EDUCATED ON THE PRODUCT THEY WERE USING

Calm down. If they are ill educated on the product it is because they did not read the warning sticker on the box or the included manual. That constitutes a reasonable attempt to educate them, and shifts the liability from me to the consumer.

I could help you out MS

>>3424304
the general public are mostly complete fucking retards... people will die, people die from every single product ever sold.

>>3424304
ever been diving before? ever seen someone get an AGE? accidents happen, and they happen significantly more often if you aren't properly trained in what you are doing.

>>3424306

>As far as I can tell he just doesn't give a shit.

Fuck, that hurts. :-\

Of course I care. That's why I am insisting upon a prominent warning concerning the only danger involved, and why my design eliminates all of the other possible dangers.

If I didn't give a shit, it wouldn't have redundant air compressors.

If I didn't give a shit, it wouldn't have a depth sensor.

If I didn't give a shit, it wouldn't have battery backup.

If I didn't give a shit, it wouldn't have voice alarms.

And so on and so forth. Why do you ignore all of these precautions? Is it never enough?

>>3424299
bonus points if you can get them to say "you're my favourite deputy" but not often enough for anyone to believe those who claim it happens
>>3424296
It's marketed to responsible adults. He's marketing to a group of people who should be capable of reading instructions. The people who don't read instructions are idiots, the chances of anyone being injured even if they surface too fast are low anyway. The point of the helmet is that it makes diving easy- which it does. It's nigh on impossible to mess up
Are you radically opposed to gun ownership?

>>3424304

Don't retards have the right to live too?

>>3424299
>I'd buy the chimps in bulk, yeah
I know this is the typo but the thought of a chimpanzee who bodily wrestle you to safer depths amuses me to no end

IANAL, but I think a LLC means they can only sue the company and not you

>>3424327
Retards have the same rights to kill themselves as we do. As said 3 times before, MS has a reasonable obligation to educate the buyer on safe operation, which he will do. If people fuck it up after all of that, then I don't know how you could possibly blame him.

>>3424330
It doesn't matter the legal setup of the company...

in the US owners of an LLC can certainly be liable for its actions.

what is being overlooked is that no mater the legal framework he needs insurance. given insurance he can't be sued, the insurance company absorbs the cost.

without insurance he's screwed, no matter how safe the product, because he will get sued.

if insurance companies won't take on his liability then the product is simply too dangerous... it's their job to know, not ours.

>>3424343
Declare high altitude hamster CEO
Assemble submersible board of directors
???
PROFIT

>>3424343
another simple point being overlooked-
this product is already being successfully sold
it must be profitable and underwriteable to be sold.
MS just wants to make it better and cheaper... the product is already proven.

>>3424307
fuck it. I give up. give the goddamn helmet to retards who won't read the manual or will ignore the warnings. fuck up divings good name by introducing the product that kills people who are too lazy to take a scuba course and buy a hookah rig. fuck it.
just... put a check valve on the helmet so if you loose surface air you won't have people drowning or coming down with pneumonia if the don't.

>>3424357
it's going to have a valve, that was mentioned earlier, Surely you haven't been arguing this helmet is unsafe without understanding the safety features of the helmet?

Perhaps a reasonable compromise could be reached where users would sign waivers stating they were responsible for their personal safety and that injury not caused by defect was their fault?

>>3424087
>isometric tents for everyone

I am so tempted to go into Baldur's Gate and find a tent to snap a screenshot of right now. So very fucking tempted.

>>3424359
>it's going to have a valve, that was mentioned earlier, Surely you haven't been arguing this helmet is unsafe without understanding the safety features of the helmet?
you misunderstand what i mean. a check valve exists on the helmet itself to prevent air from being forced out in the event of airloss from surface for any reason, even if the line itself is somehow cut.

>>3424396
Yes. The valve on the helmet would close if the pressure in the line is reduced, as it would be if it were severed.

>>3424318
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKWdsnGuFUM&ob=av3n

>>3424329

>>I know this is the typo but the thought of a chimpanzee who bodily wrestle you to safer depths amuses me to no end

New feature: Safety chimps. To be implemented immediately.

>>3424642
http://cgi.ebay.com/Baby-Kids-Monkey-Goldbug-safety-harness-strap-bag-/260820724609?pt=AU_Travel&amp
;hash=item3cba206b81
Should be possible to integrate the tail with the air tube. Not sure how this will affect cost, though.

>>3424654

Obviously the monkey will need his own helmet. Unless we surgically augment the monkey such that oxygen is fed from an exterior tank directly into his bloodstream. When the tank runs low you mail the entire monkey in and they exchange it for a younger, more active monkey with a full oxygen tank.

>>3424658
of course. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150-QUALITY-ZIPLOCK-SEAL-PLASTIC-BAGS-7-x4-7-17X12CM-/230648954933?pt=UK_W
SJL_Wholesale_GL&hash=item35b3bfc035
these could make excellent helmets, I think.

Surely you could have a one way valve that let's excess air be pumped out into the water, and thus an easy indicator of the compressor being functional, if you put this in a location on the helmet visible to the diver.
Also, maybe putting the warning to not surface while holding ones breath could be put on the inside of the helmet, as well as on the box, and in the manual?

>>3423685
The average person isn't educated enough. They shouldn't be allowed to do any sort of diving where you are walking on the ground. Tourists are the worst. They have no idea what their presence effects in the water. Snorkelers in high tourist areas destroy coral by touching, walking on, kicking etc. As a marine conversationalist, These helmets and the general population disgust me and every professional I ever met going through University

>>3424695

>>Surely you could have a one way valve that let's excess air be pumped out into the water, and thus an easy indicator of the compressor being functional, if you put this in a location on the helmet visible to the diver.

The helmet does have an air outlet, so that it comes out as a stream of small bubbles instead of large 'burps' from the underside of the helmet. However it's in the back so that the bubbles don't obscure vision.

The wearer will know if the air stops because sound from the compressor will carry down the tube. You'll be able to hear the hum of the compressor inside the helmet and feel the fresh air coming in on the top/back of your head.

>>Also, maybe putting the warning to not surface while holding ones breath could be put on the inside of the helmet, as well as on the box, and in the manual?

Sure. On the back/top of the helmet maybe, so it won't obscure vision.

>>3424719
>. However it's in the back so that the bubbles don't obscure vision.
Well, I would have suggested on the edge of the persons peripheral vision, so that they wouldn't have obscured visibility, but still tell that pressure is being retained, as they may get distracted by how much fun they have while 21 feet below the surface
>On the back/top of the helmet maybe, so it won't obscure vision.
Would on the bottom of the the see-through portion of the helmet on the inside not work better, as they'll see that warning while in the water with it?

>>3424737

Hm, maybe. Or every time it contacts water it plays a short audio clip reminding you to breathe out as you ascend. That might get annoying though.

What about an instructional DVD?

>What about an instructional DVD?
People will just throw it away, and you'll deal with more lawsuits, and even if you win, you still have the burden of legal fees

1: I suggest finding more reliable hardware for your safety warnings than the bits from greeting cards.
2: Two-way communication would be awesome. Also music.
3: What happens if you flip the helmet upside down? Wouldn't it fill with water? Or are you going to make the seal watertight?
4: Would it be possible to attach the pump/battery to a buoy so that you could move around with it, rather than being tethered to a certain point on the shore?

I love the idea, by the way. If these ever come out, I'm definitely getting one.

>>3424848

>>1: I suggest finding more reliable hardware for your safety warnings than the bits from greeting cards.

That was only for the prototype.

>>2: Two-way communication would be awesome. Also music.

Hm, a must-add then. Gotcha.

>>3: What happens if you flip the helmet upside down? Wouldn't it fill with water? Or are you going to make the seal watertight?

It's weighted in such a way that it would be difficult to flip. But yes if you try very hard to kill yourself with this thing it is possible to do so. But that's also true of a hair dryer or a spoon.

>>4: Would it be possible to attach the pump/battery to a buoy so that you could move around with it, rather than being tethered to a certain point on the shore?

Are you a mind reader? I was planning that as well, but I was keeping it under wraps as it's one of the few unique parts of the design I might want to patent.

But then, if it's stolen and someone else makes such a device for cheap, I've still accomplished my original goal. :3

>>3424859

The communicator would just be nice, in case you had a friend diving with you.

As for the flipping. I'm concerned that people would try to swim with the helmet on, in which case the helmet would probably not be staying perpendicular to the ground. A seal around the neck would be nice, and you could still vent air through a hose or something.

>>3424906

If it tipped a little, some water would get in, but upon righting the helmet the air supply would force that water out. You'd learn very quickly not to tip the helmet, and without being injured.

I don't like the seal idea because what if you need to get the helmet off in a hurry?

>>3424923

True.

I'm not really sure how those seals work. Are they that difficult to get off? You couldn't just... pull it off if you had to?

>>3424940

Kinda. If you have hair, piercings or ears (lol) it's going to be somewhat painful.

>>3424702

That's a good point. This device is actually a coral-ruining and water fouling machine in disguise.

I would buy this, op, and I saw your thread yesterday as well and thought this was a brilliant idea.

Kickstarter can suck a dick, I'll buy this shit if you sell it.

If you can get me a unit for say, 50.00, I can buy 10 units. If you don't want to go that low, I'll buy 1 unit for 90.00.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JmLkNhUfaY

OP, patent your design, begin to start a company to market your device, and allow the company that sells the expensive version to buy you out for as much as you can. If you do anything else, and you operate in the developed world, you will be the victim of industrial espionage and legal harassment, and see no profit.

>>3425328
I don't think this could be patented (too simple and prior models already exist), and US patents cost $500.

>>3424859
I think a communicator would also be a good safety feature, you'll have another person who will always be aware if anything happens to you. Maybe even have a warning to never go diving with this on your own.

As for warnings to breathe out, can't you have a chip saying "loss of outside pressure, please breathe out" whenever it detects you rising up quickly? I don't think that would be too annoying, if it's fairly quiet and only sounds once.
If you still think it would be annoying, make it possible to turn it off by pressing a hard-to-reach button, but state in the manual that turning the warning off absolves you from all liability.

>>3425338

>US patents cost $500

That's nothing

>>3425430
MS said he was strapped for cash.

>>3425441

If he lets me be the CFO money won't be a problem.

>>3425475
This is for science not profit

>>3425482

Science and profit go well together.

>>3425492
No, Profitable science and profit go well together
Unpatentable medicines are unprofitable, and therefore aren't made.

>>3425498

Who needs medicine anyways? Are you some liberal faggot?

>>3425507
да. Я надеюсь, что ваша мать умирает в ужасных капиталистические свиньи оргии