/sci/ - Science & Math

To hell with your society. Scum.

Just to add, i dont want any abuse/name calling/being mad/passive aggressive posts in this thread please, lets keep it civil.

nice trolling attempt

>>3367465
Please read the post bellow yours, try not to act immature and childish.

>in my country engineers fuck the most chicks both in and out of university
>my face when amerifags are jelly because their rotten society forces them to be faggots

I can verify the non troll nature of this post.

>>3367469
I am not trolling, if i was i would have worded my thread to be abusive and hurtful, instead i put forward a simple and valid question and hope you guys can be civil and mature in answering it.

>m not talking about school/highschool/university/job with maths and science
>job with maths and science

>im talking about living

You've just derped don't you think?

what makes you think society is above science?
science is above society and in fact should dictate what society should be, not the other way around.

>>3367475
>I am not trolling
>It (math and science) rarely has any practical applications in the real world.

You are clearly delusional if you are not trolling.

>>3367476
How so? Spending your life in books, and 1/3 in school is not living.

>>3367477
Cool.

>>3367483
Because of the wasted lives you pursue with oyur head in books.

>>3367494
How so? Beyond the basics, nothing is needed. When was the last time the normal average person used calculus?

>Math
>It rarely has any practical applications in the real world.

It appears that you're either 12 years old or you just try to piss people with math jobs off.
There are dozens of jobs revolving around math and no you're not wearing labcoat in those jobs.

>>3367507
So having a general interest in knowledge and educating yourself is not "living"? Should we all be only concerned with learning what's layed out for us in high school then get a job and a wife, have kids then die?
I think I would like to know your definition of what "life" should be.

>>3367512
That may be true, but those jobs dont require the level of maths skills you set out to get. Its a useless pursuit, similar to those who go on religious pilgrimages. Waste of time when it could be spent living.

>>3367511
When's the last time a "normal average person" did anything great for the world besides blend in?

>>3367507
>Because of the wasted lives you pursue with oyur head in books.
as opposed to being a slave to capitalism? contributing to human knowledge is one of the few things that make your life worthwhile.

>>3367520
Its not, not when you past the point of knowing more than you have experienced, which in most caes is every single person in university studying something useless like maths and science. When was the last major scientific breakthrough? When was the last mathematical breakthrough? All these people wasting there lives not achieving anything in a useless subject.

>>3367535

>>3367535
Keep your liberal politics out of my thread.

>>3367537
Do you know why there have been no modern breakthroughs?
Because the drive has been drowned by society.

>>3367545
You can make up excuses all you want, it doesnt change the fact their hasnt been any and that your wasting your life studying something useless in todays world and society.

>>3367537
>When was the last major scientific breakthrough?
Sunday, April 17, 2011

>>3367547
Hey i can quote useless dates to without posting any information or sources.

July 10th, 2011: the day you were proved wrong.

>>3367552
that day we made perfect quantum teleportation you stupid fuck

>>3367546
How is trying to learn as much as possible for the sake of trying to do all you can to help improve the future of mankind useless?! I can't believe someone would actually contest it!

>>3367556
Keep it civil and dont be a immature little kid.

>>3367558
For the sake of knowing? So tell me, what advancements have you made for mankind, you are studying maths and science after all?

>>3367546
We work so there CAN be major breakthroughs you dumb cunt. Science and math are the basis of technology and technological progress. Science and math are the reason you will live twice as long as your great grandfather, and why you have your computer and the internet so you can make dumbass threads like this one.

>>3367567
But have you? has anyone you know done it? No, they havnt. Also stop being an immature kid and swearing and abusing me, all your doing is proving me right by getting hostile towards me. If it wasnt true then you would be able to explain without getting angry and mad and throwing abuse around.

>>3367575
If nobdy studied science how would we get the researchers who make these discoverers. Or the experts that are able to use and maintain them and us.

>>3367566
Why do you need to call me out? That is not a sound way to back your argument. I never stated I was personally doing these things. In fact, I think I'm more like you; just arguing a different side. Can't we keep the topic on the uselessness or importance of Science and Math? It's not about you or I personally.

>>3367581
What im trying to say is that YOU dont need to be studying it, other people will. To many chefs spoil the soup.

>>3367582
By the way, I'm not the one cussing at you. lol

>>3367586
If you use that mentality, then who's left to be the "other people"? You'll find that soup is a rather hard dish to mess up and even easier to fix.

>>3367586
I'm insulting you because you are, indeed, a fucking idiot.

"Oh don't worry, SOMEONE will take care of that Hitler guy"

What do you study?

>>3367600
>implying going to highscool is called studying

>>3367602
You are a highschooler?

>>3367586
So basically you shouldn't do anything because other people are doing it.

>>3367602
That explains it
>MATH SUCKS WHEN AM I EVER GOING TO NEED THIS IT'S SO USELESS NOBODY EVER ACTUALLY DOES THIS STUFF MATH IS STUPID

>>3367608
I'm not OP, but I assume he is a highschooler indeed

>>3367600
I quit highschool in year 11. I went out and LIVED my life, not spent it in books. I have seen wonders you have only read about.

>>3367621
So you think people can't study and have holidays or other activities?

>>3367621
If that's what you want to do with your life it's completely acceptable. In fact, it should be admired. But why can't you be accepting of the fact that others like to live their life with Science and Math?

>>3367621
>Implying education/intellectual and academic benefit and experiences are mutually exclusive
>Implying people who study math and science are literally STUDYING 24/7
Yeah, nah, you're a cunt

>>3367633
I don't think calling him a cunt is helping the argument in any direction. lol

>>3367453

>what do you think your computer is using

>>3367627
>>3367631
>>3367633
No, it wast a holiday, i just spent my life getting EXPERIENCE instead of READING BOOKS and DRAWING NUMBERS.

more seriously though, let's think for a minute:
what did you eat today? some meat, maybe some vegetables.
who bought them? you, or your parents, I assume.
with what? money. Who decides how much money they get? who decides what your food costs? someone who knows how to choose those variables "wisely"(more or less)
how did that motherfucker choose those variables? well, he didn't find them written on a piece of paper. The people behind this had to do some crazy ass maths before even deciding anything.
And why is that? because one has to deal with taxes, costs, one has to make actual benefits etc
how? using maths, optimization etc.

But tell me OP, where do you live? do you have a fridge? do you know how that works? it's almost basic thermodynamics, but still, 90% of the world wouldn't have a clue.
You may be sitting on a chair. how do you make chairs? you cut some pieces of wood (for instance), assemble them and that's it. Why doesn't your chair break appart, though? In order to be sure, you just have to build it out of diamond instead, right? or you call a fucking ingenier (I actually don't know who does this job, whatever...) to optimize the solution;
maybe you're wearing glasses. I dare you to show me how to "build" glasses. I suspect it's not that trivial, is it?
Anyways, in order to create those things, some people had to put their noses in books, to actually works on a blackboard and make science advance.
So please, if you're not trolling, consider this.

10/10 op you got some people really mad.

>>3367648
Experience for what in the end? A fulfilled life? Yes. And others are into Science and Math because to them, that's what fulfills their lives. Is it wrong to do what you enjoy? Not everyone has the same mindset.

>>3367666
not to consider that those scientist actually get experiences. when you're a scientist, you can actually choose.

>>3367453
In the end nothing is particularly meaningful.
Let us enjoy something simply because we do.

>>3367666
Experiance for LIFE, somthing you will never experiance reading your math books

>>3367683
But to me, that is what I consider life. I don't have to go hiking to be alive.

>>3367683
let me tell you something: I've never had such a rich life(apart from studying) since I actually started studying.

>>3367683

What if I hate society, and consider the visual observation and physical participation in such activities as you're describing useless? Should I just lay down and die because one field of activity doesn't appeal to me?

>>3367683
>experiance
This is why I study

>>3367686
>>3367687
Honestly, if hiding yourself away in books and reading bout the world instead of experiencing and living it is what you consider to be life, then you are really sad and i feel sorry for you for all the things you will be missing.

>>3367702
since you don't take what >>3367660 says into account, I must deduce you are a troll

I call everyone to stop answering this motherfucker
good job, OP.

>>3367702
You are very closed minded it would seem. You take your opinion and lifestyle as the sole correctness. I cannot understand why one human would not tolerate another humans interests if they intend no harm.
My views may make you sad,
but your view scares me.

>>3367708
I am not trolling, and what >>3367660 is pointless. Everything he listed was made and found by someone other than him, or you for that matter. Its a null and void point.

>>3367702
Honestly, if spending your time participating in mundane, everyday activities that provide nothing for the advancement of humanity as a race, and consider that to be living, then you are really sad and I feel sorry for you and all the things you'll be missing.

Your arguing on the basis of opinion.

>>3367715
>you're*
I just woke up.

>>3367715
Societies opinion, not mine, it is a collective understanding.

>>3367722
I think not

>>3367722
No, a portion of society's opinion. It is safe to say that a percentage of society would disagree with you.
Like I said, not everyone has the same mindset.

>>3367722
Most people in society understand the importance of education and that SOMEBODY has to be studying math and science. If not us, who?

And if you're using society to justify looking down on a life of academics, you should be aware that most people don't think too highly of high school dropouts.

>>3367722
>submitting to a collective belief without any objections at all
>everyone else believes something therefore I should too
you're the exact reason why Hitler managed to actually get anywhere with his nazi party.

>>3367702
That's just it. What "real world" do you think someone who is not you is missing?
Do you think you live in a self sufficient reality?
Do you grow your own food? Create your own goods? Do others do that for you (yes they do, but you don't understand that yet)?

What reality do you see?
Enlighten us !
Did you just have "the sex" or something?
With another person who lives in one "reality" just like you?
Can you not plainly see how a phylosophical mind has no place in this reality of yours?

>>3367731
Well there's that, and Germany was such a mess... But not the point lol

>>3367730
Bazinga

Also, joy is basicaly dopamine and seretonine, so....

>>3367724
>>3367729
If thats the case then how come more of society are not scientists and maths magicians? Because they know just how pointless it really is in the real world.

>>3367739
BECAUSE THE MAJORITY OF HUMANS ONLY CARE ABOUT THEMSELVES AND WHATEVER THEY CAN GRAB ON TO!
Don't you realize?
You're preaching the end of all individual thought and quests for knowledge.
You're argument doesn't sound at all un-human in nature to you?

>>3367739
ok
society doesn't drop out of school, though

>>3367739
>How pointless it is in the real world
AGAIN
IF IT WERE NOT FOR SCIENCE AND MATH, YOU WOULD HAVE THE COMPUTER YOU ARE USING
YOU WOULD LIVE HALF AS LONG AS YOU WILL NOW

You could use this argument for literally ANY PROFESSION
>If it's not useless, why aren't more people doctors?
The answer is always because
a) They don't fucking want to be and don't have any interest
or
b) They do not have the ability.

>>3367749
I actually only care about myself, and still, I study.
I only do this for glory and the pleasure to know.

>>3367755
Then that's your lifestyle. It doesn't make you any less human.

Prior to recession economists and managers believed that the non-functionality of neuron-network based risk assessment was something that only mathematicians feel like wasting their time on. They only saw the profit in a formula they didn't even understand. Eventually recession kicked in. Now again, these same economist know they're right and mathematicians keep wasting their lives. Link related.

http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/magazine/17-03/wp_quant

The OP is just being ignorant. If he knew shit about either science or math he wouldn't declare it useless.

The people who get along with most people, not the smartest people, have it the easiest.

>>3367750
I didnt drop out, i left and joined the military for 4 years, served my country, after than i traveled the world meeting new people, working unbelievable jobs and seeing unbelievable sights, all the while growing my experience more than anyone could ever do with there head in a book.

>>3367770
I am not. I worked with a few engineers and scientists in my time and time and time again i showed them that books cant teach you everything.

>>3367525

When applying for a job, regardless wether or not it require any maths, a high knowledge of maths would usually be an indicator of a high inteligence and shows that you are good at logical thinking and problem solving,

>>3367780
This sounding like complete bullshit to anyone else?

>>3367780
A three-year experienced chemist is naturally higher valued than a freshman chemist no doubt. Doesn't mean everyone should stop studying chemistry.

Not quite sure where your argument is going anymore, OP.

>>3367780
But again, you're implying that your life experiences are the only plausible standard for what a fulfilled life should be and not taking into account, other people's interests and what they consider to be fulfilling experiences.
And I am in no way saying that you're lifestyle is wrong. Your experiences in life are what makes you feel fulfilled. But not everyone has the same mindset.

>>3367792
You fail to take into account that what i am stating is that i speak for society as a whole.

>>3367796
Are you SERIOUS?
Your opinion is what EVERYONE else in the world thinks?

>>3367798
No, not everyone, but the majority or normal acclimatized people.

sage

>>3367800
So you already know where the majority of humankind's personal decisions are? How have you come to this?

>>3367803
By experience. Something you cant learn from a maths book.

>>3367804
you can't be happy if you always consider what others think of you (whatever they think)
you must be pretty sad, OP. Because I don't give a shit, apart from what people I actually love (and who love me) say.
So, what's your excuse now?

>>3367800
Nah, you're a cunt. It's not like we're all going to just study forever. We're going to get jobs. Many of us will be engineers, some chemists, some research biologists, physicists, mathematicians, professors. We will at least enjoy these jobs and make even marginal contributions to society, and in the best case we will make huge breakthroughs.

I find it ironic that you've taken a break from TRAVELING THE WORLD and SEEING THINGS WE'VE ONLY DREAMED OF while LIVING YOUR LIFE to come and post on 4chan.

>>3367800
Anyone of decent maturity has the knowledge to respect fields they're not into, especially of such importance as science and math. The society in general thinks nothing but high thoughts of people currently studying science/math, because most of them realize those fields are the basis for future advancements within our species.

>>3367804
You seem to have more against the basis of studying rather than working within said fields. What's the matter, got kicked out of your community college?

>>3367804
Now, you're making the argument that my life revolves around a book. I don't sit in a room alone with a book completely shutting myself off from the world. I simply enjoy science. I still get out and do 'normal' activities. I'm about to go have a smoke for stress reasons now!

op is a master troll, well done sir

>How do you justify liking maths and science past highschool?

Because I like them

>It rarely has any practical applications in the real world

Not sure if trolling or just very stupid.jpg

>All you do is write numbers on paper and in your head, while the real world goes on about its business.

Wrong.

>Have you ever taken your head away from numbers and experienced the real world?

Yessir. And I realized that the real world is just dull routine with no mental stimulation.

>im talking about living.

So am I

>Society looks down upon you for that, so how do you justify it?

for all your WORLD EXPERIENCE you have a remarkably limited perception of society.
my jimmies = rustled

sage

How do you justify liking sports,girls and cars past highschool? It rarely has any practical applications in the real world. All you do is play inconsequential games and shallowly entertain yourself, while the real world goes on about its business. Have you ever taken your head away from your ass and experienced the real world? Im not talking about being a sheeple dropout who fails pattern recognition so hard he thinks he's getting vague 'experience' travelling, im talking about living. People who actually change the world look down upon you for that, so how do you justify it?

>>3367453

>How do you justify liking maths and science past highschool?

Why would anyone justify his preferences to you?
What would anyone achieve by justifying it?
And its high school not "highschool".

>It rarely has any practical applications in the real world.

What?
How would you construct buildings or create and maintain machines that sustain your modern life?
Thats a lot more than just "rarely".

>All you do is write numbers on paper and in your head, while the real world goes on about its business.

What are you talking about.
Do you even know what Science is?

>while the real world goes on about its business.

Are you stating that Science is fictional?
Are you that delusional?

>Have you ever taken your head away from numbers and experienced the real world?

What?
Are you stating that when perceiving numbers, you are excluded from reality?
Are you stating that you never perceive numbers at all?
How do you use this machine to access internet?
How do you communicate with humans over large distances?

>Im not talking about school/highschool/university/job with maths and science, im talking about living.

Now you are contradicting yourself.
Your previous statement is: "How do you justify liking maths and science past highschool?"
You are puzzling yourself.

>Society looks down upon you for that, so how do you justify it?

What Society?
How does it "look down", and of what relevance is it?
Why would, and how could i justify their "looking down" when you havent answered previous two of my questions?

Finally are you under the influence of some kind of narcotics?

OH GOD THAT IS GOOD
4/10. Nobody s that unintelligent.

Threads like this one is why I come to /sci/. For all your thinking you're smarter than others, you sure get trolled easily.

>>3367453
>Have you ever taken your head away from numbers and experience the real world?
>Society looks down upon you for that
>>3367507
>Spending your life in books, and 1/3 in school is not living.
>Because of the wasted lives you pursue with your head in books.
>>3367537
Its not , not when you past the point of knowing more than you have experiences... All these people wasting there lives not achieving anything in a useless subject.
>>3367546
>...and that your wasting your life studying something useless in todays world and society.
>>3367566
>So tell me, what advancements have you made for mankind...
>>3367586
>...YOU dont need to be studying it, other people will
>>3367648
>I just spent my life getting EXPERIENCE instead of READING BOOKS and DRAWING NUMBERS
>>3367702
>Honestly, if hiding yourself away in books and reading bout the world instead of experiencing and living it is what you consider to be life...
>>3367722
>Societies opinion, not mine
>>3367739
>If thats the case then how come more of society are not scientists and math magicians?Because they know just how pointless it really is in the real world.
>>3367780
>I worked with a few engineers and scientists in my time and time and time again i showed them that books cant teach you everything.
>>3367796
>You fail to take into account that what i am stating is that i speak for society as a whole.
>>3367800
>No, not everyone, but the majority or normal acclimatized people.
>>3367804
>By experience. Something you cant learn from a maths book.

>>3367870
Sure is easy dismissing everything that's perceived as unpleasant as a troll. If all of these threads would be ignored a large fraction of the board would be gone.

>>3367886
I'll write my response here, the field was too long.

OP, you seem to be arguing that only experience is necessary, while pursuit of knowledge by reading books is not. While, experience is necessary, knowledge from books acts as a basis for which to build that experience on. Many of the people reading and studying about math and science hope to someday use it to work towards new things, be it with math and numbers, which is experience (at least that's a reason I study), and for the purpose of gaining more knowledge, which is something people like doing.

Another thing that is bothering me, each individual scientist, engineer, etc, may not make major breakthroughs, but rest assured, their work in their fields add a little to the advancement of their respective fields, building up to greater things in the end. So really, it is not about each person's personal experiences and whatnot, it's about the collective intelligence of the entire field, past and present, that makes discoveries, and is the reason why having so many working in it is important.

What we seem to have here is another person assuming their opinion is fact.

>>3367889
Even if it means I'm getting trolled now too, oin the off-chance you're actually serious I'll say that I don't have to justify what I do for fun. I just do it and if it's remotely useful, good, but if it isn't, who cares?

>>3367919
I'm just going to write OP's response in a nutshell for you, before he actually does it.

BUT IT'S NOT MY IDEA OF FUN, SO IT'S NOT FUN.

concerning the posts in this thread: tl;dr

OP, i will assume that you are just simpleminded and not a troll:
Math permeates every. single. aspect. of our lives.
Sometimes its very well hidden, yes.
Mobile phones: transmission is encrypted, cryptography is the child of a mathematical field over hundred years old, at that time no one expected it to have any real application.
Your internet access uses hamming codes to ensure that all transmitted packages are either transmitted correctly or not transmitted at all, math too.
The whole field of binary logic and automata theory was discovered long before PCs , which use it, existed, it was created at that time purely for the lulz, application came later.
Planes, ships, cars and trucks are modeled and optimized using partial differential equation and finite elements methods, both extremely math-heavy subjects. This has hugely reduced the consumption of fuels and increased the comfort of driving these vehicles.
What ever mass-produced goods you used: they were probably created using automated production lines, those lines use robots, the movent path of those are optimized using evolutionary algorithms, math again.
I could write a whole thread just about where to find math in our daily life.
Math is truly awesome.

>>3367925
>>3367925
>>3367925
Read this OP, don't disregard it as "pointless" as you did previously.

>>3367770
I think OP's saying something else. He's not saying that all of science and maths is completely useless, he's saying that most of the people who spend their lives reading/learning science won't make a breakthrough in science.
He's basically saying most people who concern themselves with science are wasting their lives, just like the rabbits in the running events who are used to keep the race going. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacemaker_%28running%29

I think he's right. I think those who make real discoveries are very few and rare in between even in the academia and don't spend much time on 4chan.

>>3367453
>thinks science has no practical use outside of school
>is typing this on a computer

Well fuck you, too

math is the universal language, theres an equation that expreesses literally everything you see, your retarded. i wish i knew half as much about math as some of these kids do

>>3367937
Every scientist/researcher/etc all help in the build up of new discoveries and advancements. Very rarely are there any "real discoveries" where one or two people make giant breakthroughs like Einstein.

>>3367937
That doesn't mean you can't make great contributions. You don't have to be Einstein or Hawking.

>>3367937
The problem in this case are not the sciences but the media who report about science.
Its always about how some underdog finally makes a breakthrough out of nowhere, and is recognized by all the haters and skeptics.
NEWSFLASH: THIS IS NOT HOW SCIENCE WORKS!!

Every single "big" discovery can be traced back to a whole lot of smaller ones, sometimes it was just pure dumb luck that Person X is credited with discovery A and not Person Y.
Even very famous stuff like the theory of relativity didnt came out of nowhere. The concept of relativistic speed was first discovered in relation to Magnetic fields.
Poincareé did a lot of work which Einstein used.
Einstein was not an underdog with bad grades but instead a very well respected Scientist who was communicating actively with other scientists of his time.
Transistor: same here the first discovery of a transistor-like effects dates back to 1880.
Telephone: the other guy came to the patent office one hour late, that why it was Bell who got the fame.
Light bulb: invented over and over again among others by a German, Edison merely improved the filament.

Also there is rarely an "Eureka!" moment in science, more often its a series of "well, thats strange" moments which over time lead to new fields or discoveries.

>>3367947
Exactly. There's a REASON Einstein is fucking Einstein. There's a reason his name is synonymous with genius. It's because it's so goddamn rare.

>>3367947
Einstein wouldn't have made his discoveries if it wasn't for those that researched and documented the photoelectric effect, or the people that worked on measuring the speed of light and the (non)existence of the aether.

Many of those who we see as the people that on their own revolutionized the world are the ones that drew the right conclusions from the works done before them (van 't Hoff didn't even do his own experiments, but Einstein and Wattson & Kirk also come to mind), or they were just lucky (More rarely, though Oness comes to mind.)

Successful troll is successful.

Well played, OP. Well played!

>>3367897
>What we seem to have here is another person assuming their opinion is fact.
Take notes OP

>>3367453
>math not relevant in real world
> implying mathematicians don't make 6-figure salaries

developer/compsci fag here with interest/some competence in maths. feelsgoodtobesuperior.jpg (to troglodyle non-/sci/s, I mean). How does it feel to be illiterate for the 21st century (not knowing math)?

>>3368097

Not to mention
> Ph.d. in Mathematics
> Any job I want
> $600k starting

>>3368118
>$100k

fixed

>>3368118
yeah, mathematicians in the right company are well payed, but not this good, sorry.
Even Banks will give you at first just short over 100k, and thats if you specialize in the stuff relevant for them like stochastic equations, brown motion, random walks and fokker-plack equations.

Later however it will rise considerably, though i heard about a glass ceiling at around 400k.

>>3368204
>>3368127
Y'all replying to a troll post.

>>3368214
Yeah. It looks like there is a lot of summer fags around.

>>3368356

This thread did not need a bump. This threads need to be saged..