/sci/ - Science & Math

Here's the main jug in which I'm growing the seeder population of algae. Once I have enough and am satisfied with its density I'll pour it into the various smaller bottles. I figure it's better this way because if anything happens to the bioreactors, I've still got a large, healthy backup supply.

Here's the pond where Hampture Mk.III will be deployed. Notice the island near the middle of it. There's a steep dropoff from that island which will enable me to get Hampture into deep water without a ridiculously long tether and give me someplace relatively inaccessible to hide the surface support station.

There's a fallen log which makes a handy bridge to the island. It'll be a bit of a circus act trying to get across it while carrying the large, unwieldy habitat and heavy battery pack but I expect if I take it in separate loads it should be manageable.

Nice.

Here's the view from the island. Hampture will be perhaps 20 feet from shore and 7-8 feet down. Even if the pond bottom is 8 feet deep, the habitat will be propped up on cinderblocks (to which it is bolted, as ballast) so the effective depth will be 7 feet or so. This is deliberate, as the maximum rated depth of the pump is 8 feet and I want a safety margin to make sure it can do the job.

the wind would fuck their life up at altitude

I beg you to make videos and post them on that blog! You're /sci/'s only hope!

>>3364831

Why? It won't sway or tilt because it's secured from below by the tether and from above by the balloons. It might move around a bit but nothing that would make the hamsters uncomfortable.

>>3364842

i think it will move in a circular motion, pivioting around the anchor

Mad Scientist, why don't you just get weather balloons as opposed to straight-up helium balloons. I am sure they're more expensive balloon for balloon, but you would require fewer balloons, as they are larger, and presumably they are more shielded from the elements than your dollar store 100 balloon pack.

why is this all so fucking cool

>>3364842
How high do you want this shit to be? Does the air's density significantly change at that height? How would that affect the the lifting force? How fast do the balloons lose their helium? And, with 95 balloons, wouldn't that thing be easily spotted?


I hope you're thinking this through, I'd be more than happy to see this being a success.

>>3364876

By helium balloons I mean party/generic balloons. All balloons are going to use helium with the set-up like that. Derp moment there.

>Space Hams
COME ON AND SLAM!

AND WELCOME TO THE JAM!

If I were you just to be safe get one of these and insulate the chamber well.

http://www.amazon.com/10ft-dia-Professional-Weather-Balloon/dp/B00513FWQI

>>3364879

Because Mad Scientist is amazingly creative.

>>3364876

>>Mad Scientist, why don't you just get weather balloons as opposed to straight-up helium balloons. I am sure they're more expensive balloon for balloon, but you would require fewer balloons, as they are larger, and presumably they are more shielded from the elements than your dollar store 100 balloon pack.

I do plan to get weather balloons. Says so on the blog. The image says otherwise because I made it before someone pointed out that weather balloons would be superior and I never bothered to update the pic.

>>3364890

Oh. Must've missed that part. Nevermind, carry on.
So, the calculations for the weather balloons are different than what is stated in the picture?

>>3364879

>>why is this all so fucking cool

Because it's all stuff we wish we could do, but instead we're sending adorable hairy little avatars to conquer in our stead.

>>3364894

>Burst altitude: 109,000 ft.

Well, shit son.

Won't all the helium just leak out within a few days? Also air pressure changes are going to fuck with the size of the balloons.

>>3364918
Disregard that, missed the post about weather balloons.

And with the rocket thing, do you think the hamsters are gonna take it well? WHat would be the accelerations you'd expect in this thing?

Miniature hamster centrifuge for training hamster-astronauts incoming?

>>3364901

Yup, need to redo the math for the lifting force of weather balloons. If you want to save me some time and find that data I'd be much obliged.

>>3364894

Totally, in the form of wood shavings (so they can burrow) and a resistive heater pad. If in fact it becomes uncomfortably cold (which I don't expect it will during the day as it's Summer and they'll be getting plenty of sunlight) they can simply position themselves on top of the heating pad. I do want to retain visibility through the domes however as they should be able to admire the view.

so OP will this not happen?

just remember to have a good anchor point. your balloons mixed with wind could have hundreds of lbs of lift.

>>3364918

>>Won't all the helium just leak out within a few days?

Yes, but by using an excessive number of balloons I can ensure that it stays aloft nonetheless for at least a week. When it begins to lose altitude it won't just drop, it'll gently drift to the ground. We'll call this a "controlled de-orbit".

>>Also air pressure changes are going to fuck with the size of the balloons.

Not at a few hundred to a thousand feet. I wouldn't send them to any serious height for fear that they'd have trouble breathing.

less retarded version

>>3364940

That may happen, but not very fast. I don't expect it'll be a problem for the hamsters.

>>3364924

>>And with the rocket thing, do you think the hamsters are gonna take it well? WHat would be the accelerations you'd expect in this thing?

Not much. And I did the same thing with a mouse in junior high. The cockpit was padded with cotton and it had a little latching door with an inset window. It was pretty neat. Chute deployed, capsule drifted back down, mouse was fine.

>>Miniature hamster centrifuge for training hamster-astronauts incoming?

They already do that in their exercise wheel. Constantly.

>>3364764
So after BioShock 1&2, there will now be a hamster version of BioShock infinite?
That can't be a coincidence

>>3364903
was mad scientist the one working on an underwater habitat too? he should work on that.

shit i should work on that.

OP if you do they sky thing do a unmanned test first yeah? sdee if you can somehow get live vid from it, see what the turbulence is like

>>3364971

>>was mad scientist the one working on an underwater habitat too? he should work on that.

I've completed one, deployed it, captured video, and since then I have completed a much larger multi-room colony which will be deployed soon.

Here's the video from the prototype habitat mission: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05pkg0DuPNQ

Pic at left is the newer, larger habitat in an earlier stage of construction. It's done now except for ballast weights and the water filter.

>>3364923

I think it might vary from weather balloon brand to weather balloon brand, and somewhat how much you're going to fill it up (which we would just assume is full). However, I'm not a physics person and can't really tell my ass from my elbow when it comes to these sorts of things; however, depending where you get it may have that information for you already. >>3364894 linked to a weather balloon on Amazon, and it states that the "nominal lift" is 7.6 lbs, while the maximum lift is 15 lbs. Not sure if that helps, but, that's all I got.a

>>3364959
Different guy, but can't you just do this to avoid spinning? Just tether the corners or something very far apart and make it tight so that it resists spinning.

You would only need to do some basic geometry to determine the lengths

>>3365019

Do we know for certain that it's going to spin at all?

>>3365033
also, is the spin even a problem?

To avoid any chance of it you'd only need two tethers, but with one tether slightly off of the centre of the orbital station you shouldn't get more than a slow rock of 45 degrees or so. Definitely not going to be enough to hurt the hamsters
I think that given the large surface area of the balloons they'll probably take most of the rocking, and the habitat will be pretty much untouched.

>>3365061

Two tethers sounds workable. I'll try one first with no hamsters onboard just to see if it actually does spin. What I expect will happen is slow rotation until the tether is twisted enough that it won't rotate more. Breakage won't be an issue as I'll be using the heaviest duty fishing line which regularly holds up under hundreds of pounds of force (which it needs to in order to pull in larger species of fish. Or in this case resist strong winds.)

i for one believe it will spin sufficiently enough to give your hamsters a poor QOL up there. Its going to be buffeted by wind constantly. it will be vibrating 24/7 at the very least, at worst moving around loads

i may be wrong though

>>3365061
i think it depends on the shape of the habitat
if it is relatively flat and constant, a small updraft could catch the bottom and make it flip
given the shape of the habitat in the picture, it think it would be okay. it might spin around the vertical axis (start yawing) though

>>3365113
You'll probably have it moving in one direction and then the other, but slow enough for it not to be noticeable for them. What might make a difference is adding a polystyrene tail piece.
>>3365122
The balloons are tied to the top, it would be difficult for the wind to make any difference. If the wind is strong enough to get underneath the balloon, it's also strong enough to blow the balloons in the same direction, thus accelerating the habitat away from the wind and making it flop back down to where it was before.

connecting the tether as far from the center as possible might prevent spinning

I salute your project in the name of your name, it's quite fitting for this experiment.

I also hope you get hit by a lightning while shitting for possibly (read: probably) killing the hamster(s) when a stone instead would do as well.

>>3365154
You'd have to balance this with the fact that the further from the centre the easier it is for it to tilt though.

hey op what are your re-entry procedures

>>3365164
or add a light extension with something to catch the wind
like the tail on a plane
_center_____________|

>>3365165

Man, don't even joke about that. These little guys are my hambros. Nothing's gonna happen to them, I will take every precaution possible.

>>3365137

>>What might make a difference is adding a polystyrene tail piece.

This is brilliant. I could even paint it to look like a solar panel in keeping with the space station theme. I may just wind up doing this.

>>3365189

make it out of Aluminium.

you could make a superstructure housing thing to give it strength, and weld the tail on

problem isn't going to be the wind blowing up or back and forth, but the wind will push the balloons down. can't tether against that.

>>3365187

>>hey op what are your re-entry procedures

Parachute. Like any other model rocket, once the engine runs out it pops the nosecone off, which has a parachute attached. The passenger capsule will drift gently back to the ground.

>>3365188
looks complex :/
I think having it slightly offset with a tail would probably be easier
>>3365189
Yay, glad you like it
>>3365199
>he spelt it right
I like you

>>3365202

and when it gets pulled back up there is nothing ensuring it remails upright when that happens

>>3365211
Well, there's still the fact that the tether is at the bottom and the balloons are all at the top.

>>3365211

>>and when it gets pulled back up there is nothing ensuring it remails upright when that happens

The balloons are tied to the top. The tether is tied to the bottom. The balloons are always pulling up, and the tether is always resisting that pull, effectively forcing the habitat into an upright position at all times.

maybe do a mini test, bluetack on a helium ballon + a fan.

wont it kinda spring back off the tether when the wind pushes it down? The land area required to set your 4 tethers that would completely eliminate all horizontal and vertical movement would be Height squared.. unfeasable

>>3365202
This. This is what I'm worried about.
I'm not sure where you live or the weather around there, but the wind is not something to be trifled with

>>3365244
Some movement would be reasonable, just not sudden jolts or any significant tilting. Two tethers should do the trick, and they don't need to be that far apart- depending on the excess pull from the balloons and the positioning of the tether bases they probably wouldn't need to be more than about 30 degrees off of each other.

>>3365256

>>I'm not sure where you live or the weather around there, but the wind is not something to be trifled with

It's not at all windy here.

>>3365244

>>wont it kinda spring back off the tether when the wind pushes it down?

I don't know of anywhere that wind pushes anything straight down.

>>3365256
That amount of tilting would need some serious windspeed.

assuming 20mph winds (common at 500feet) and a 10 foot diameter balloon. You will experience about 500lbs of pressure. if the 10 foot balloon is good for 7lbs of lift. you might need 2-3 balloons. so expect your stuff to pet pushed around quite hard. if winds get up to 30mph, you could well have 3-4000lbs of pressure moving your habitat around. up down left right, suddenly starting and stopping.

>>3365265
Even at altitude?
I'm sure you'll send it up unmanned for safety's sake, but still

How high do you actually plan on sending hamsters in rockets? Solid fuel hobby engines will only take you so far, egg rockets like the one you purchased on your blog only go up a few hundred meters at most. You're probably going to need high powered re-loadable engines to get any decent height. Personally, from the handful of model rockets I've launched, I think its too much stress on the hamsters, but if you can find a way to do this safely then by all means go for it.

Has anyone called PETA yet?

>>3364912

Its supposed to be filled up to a diameter of 10 feet at sea level and will expand to 30 feet at 109,000. If were only going for 1,000 feet you could just fill it up to a diameter of about 25 feet.

>>3364923

ok

>>3365278
Why would he? The man takes care of his hamsters, we make sure of it.

>>3365272
Yeah, high-powered rocketry (which requires certification mind you) may be your best bet. I'm skeptical as to the forces, you'd have to be sure to get a slower-burning engine, not a warp-9 or anything like that.

>>3365272

>>How high do you actually plan on sending hamsters in rockets? Solid fuel hobby engines will only take you so far, egg rockets like the one you purchased on your blog only go up a few hundred meters at most.

That's fine, since I was never going to be able to send them to space in the first place and I don't want to send them to an altitude that might actually be dangerous.

>>3365270

I could simply choose a lower altitude. Assuming that would still be acceptable.

>>3365265

if you apply a force on something that has only 1 direction of motion it will go where it can. i.e winds blowing parallel to it will force it downward

OP how are you going account for the G-forces broski

>>3365307

>>OP how are you going account for the G-forces broski

Thick cotton padding. On all sides. Same as I did for the mouse, and he came back acting like it wasn't even a thing.

>>3365285
Not trying to knock the plan. Just want you to be aware of the forces you will be dealing with. to make this as successful as possible, you will want to find the smallest object with the most lift. limit that surface area.

>>3365324
>Not testing their g-force threshold is by making a g-force simulator NASA has.

>>3365324
But how are you going to account for G-Force.
God that was a terrible movie

>>3365113
i'm far from a smarty-pants, so i may be off base here, but i have heard that fishing line is rated for sudden, sharp bursts of pressure, not a steady pull over an extended period of time. for example, when fishing line is used to hold a picture frame, it sometimes snaps. so be careful with that. not implying you don't know what you're doing, i just thought i should throw my 2 cents in. keep up the good awesome.

>>3365368

I would watch a Hampture movie however.

>>3365384

Hm. Good advice. I could always use two tethers, but have one be a bit slack. That way if the main one breaks, there's a backup. And I'll know the main broke because most of it will fall back to the ground.

>>3365389
along with the power cords. You'd want those to have even more slack than the backup tether, so they never take the pull

>>3365384
>>3365389
use kite string. you can get 500lbs test for 10 cents a foot. or 1250lbs test for 50 cents a foot.

>>3365416

Is it really stronger than fishing line? If so, absolutely, I'll use kite string instead. I need to be absolutely certain it won't break or come loose.

>>3365428
Braid it if you need to to add to the strength. If you stick with fishing line I'd reccomending the fishing line braided around a piece of rope that is equally (or stronger) than than the fishing line that is rated for gradual pulling rather than sharp snapping that way you have both covered.

For the power cord(s), to help ensure that it won't come loose or fall off/out then tie an overhand (standard) knot with it and your other part of the cord (square knot works just as well).

>>3365443

Will do. No harm in supergluing the knots too, I imagine.

Is everyone okay with a 100 foot altitude? It seems like that would be much safer.

>>3365428
40lbs is high strength for fishing lines. I'm sure you can find 100lbs lines, but you can find kite string that gives you 5 to 10 times that. Also since it was designed to hold down flying objects, you know it will handle the stresses of your habitat.

>>3365463

Kite string it is, then. Apparently $50 worth, for the 1,250 pound strength, which is what I'll be going with for maximum safety.

>>3365449
sounds good to me. You can always relaunch at higher rights once the data from the first flight is in.

So is there an estimated time for Hamture Mk. III having it's launch?

>>3365428
Not sure it it's light enough, but this is something I came accross when I was looking for something to hold my underwater habitat down.
http://www.gsproducts.co.uk/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=45_246_275&products
_id=1149

It can take a constant load of over a tonne, and works out cheaper. It might be significantly heavier though.