/sci/ - Science & Math

lol. We would rather spend it on porn, sports, and unimportant luxuries

> implying shooting a few rockets into space is worth a global financial collapse.

why does the government have to finance this?

Remember when the derps at NASA lost 1.5 billion dollars on a mars rover because the American engineers used imperial not metric measurements.

maybe they can rent it out for parties, to raise the capital needed. I'd pay 50 bucks to have it in my yard for an hour.

>>3345939
Nasa's budget is not significant. There are much bigger fish to fry.

>>3345939
Someone has to make the long-term investments - nothing has a higher return. I don't care who it is, as long as it gets done.

>>3345667

Yeah, same.

>>3345939
remember when the us is wasting most of our tax money on a multi-trillion dollar military that cost more then the entire worlds military budget combined? fuck off with your stupid shit

>>3345939
because the only thing space has right now is tourism.

>what the fuck, America

You mean, "what the fuck House Republicans", right?

>>3345969
like what, retarded towels heads in a cave? or maybe rich fucks who think they need to wipe their asses with billion dollar bills?

>>3345987
Take a look at the budget sometime. The whole thing, not just discretionary funding. Then come back and tell me that NASA's budget matters.

>>3345939
Remember when the next mars rover mission ran for YEARS past its expected operation time?
[ ] not told
[x] told

>>3345667
>lol. We would rather spend it on killing brown people, and lining the pockets of large corporations

ftfy

>>3345980

...but...but...but we need to continue the crusades to we can spread our values to places that definitely want to westernize, but just don't know it yet...

Putting more money into our space programs would give more jobs to scientists and engineers who deserve the jobs more than some highschool dropouts. It would also give more incentive to study science, mathematics, and engineering.

/speculation

>>3346002
we small corporations get our pockets lined too.

just a matter of positioning.

>>3346002
But brown people are where terrorists come from

>>3345994
... NASA is the most important thing in human history.

>>3345939
Remember when the US, using the imperial system went to the moon? When you metric fags going to do that?

Why waste money on Science and Medicine?

>>3346004

There are more high school drop-outs than scientists. Most of them raise their kids to be high school drop-outs.

They all think scientists are snobs and elitists because they "read them books and stuff."

>>3346013
I agree, I worded it poorly. I mean that it isn't worth cutting (it's a very small part of the budget).

>>3346013

>the wheel
>sharp rock attached to stick

Nope.

>>3346013

that's arguable but I'll say this

conservative budget spending on things that only maintain the status quo of our human society isn't worth shit. The reason "i mad" is because NASA represents the sort of programs that are the future of our species in terms of technological advancement, and yet the supposedly most powerful nation on Earth thinks its more important to wage wars over relatively meaningless matters

>>3346001
Remember when a bunch of astronauts died?

[x] virtues, extold

>The bill also would provide $812 million for the Joint Polar Satellite System, or JPSS, being developed by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).


See how we cut unnecessary programs and give money to ones that actually help people?

>>3346029

>Implying fire wasn't the greatest

>>3346034

They made a series out of that?
>why

>>3346030
>future of our species in terms of technological advancement
and that is why it is the most important thing in human history right now, with out it we have no future.

>>3346050

I was agreeing, but when I said arguable I meant in the long run of human history it might not have been the single most important thing

hey NASAfags

you dont get to qq for shit until you're forced to suck the withering teat that is NOAA's anual budget

>>3346054
At some point, it's hard to put relative importance values on events which are casually dependent. You can just trace it back to more primal causes and say they're more important.

Please China save us , please

I guess America really is anti-science.

>>3346072
only ~31% of America that happens to also vote as a bloc with others that favor god, dislike abortion, love exploitation, hate sharing, etc. constituting ~50-51% of the voting population.

>>3346050
Why would someone wasting their time on 4chan whine about humanity's ability to achieve things.

>>3346092
yes, on the internet one the great inventions of humanity.

>>3345980
remember america is wasting money on multi trillion dollars stupidity like government health care, welfare for lazy fucks, section 8 housing for lazy fucks, social security, medicare, school lunch programs for idiots that should have wore a condom etc etc at least having a military is in the Constitution

Fun fact, these "spending cuts" aren't actually going to reduce government spending.

In fact it is a small increase from what it previous was.

Not to mention the fact that in 3 years our interest on our debt is going to be more than it costs to maintain our military.

I feel sad

Isn't the direct and reportable rates of return for NASA really high?

Not including of course the indirect gains of inventing shit.

NASA is extremely expensive and inefficient, bogged down by bureaucracy and useless government employees.
They should close it down and create a new, streamlined facility.
They'd get much more value for money

>>3346034

remember when nasa was supposed to have far more money that would've allowed a new heavylift vehicle to replace the shuttle in the 90's? or when they were supposed to have the shuttle flying once every two weeks thereby removing pressure for nasa to perform and allowing problems not to go ignored?

NASA could discover the horrible secret that there is no god so the republican want to cut funding for fear of loosing their gos, democrats don't want to make the religious people mad so they want to cut funding.

Isn't there any way to change this? :(

az tranny and my mormon friend are trying to have an eventful summer night... summers been pretty boring so hit us up with a text and who knows you might get a picture of my dick or her hairy asshole, numbers are in the picture, my name is kayla and hers is aubrey

obama made NASAs #1 mission an emotional outreach program to muslims and canceled their space exploration

THANKS LIBERALS

>>3346187

horsefuckingshit

for every dollar spent on nasa 20 dollars have come back in new technologies. every microchip in the cellphone in the world? nasa technology.

nasa needs to be more efficient and streamlined, but we've gotten so much from them

>>3346188
Or when their budget has been going up and up until now? Or when science has been consistently funded with more and more money year after year?

There is one thing I don't understand...

The US military relies heavily on satellites for GPS and communications. So, how do they expect to keep this going without a federal agency responsible for those satellites?

we can't fund the future we have to blow up the present in the name of GOD and not the god of those brown people

>>3346225

or how about when you lied?

nasa's budget was slashed in the 70's

Why the fuck does America or Russia always have to do shit? Lazy ass worthless eurotrash and gooks.

It will be a massive tragedy if the JWST is cancelled because americans would rather kill brown people than gain knowloedge about the universe.

Especially now, when it's almost fucking done.

>>3346242
They do have their own programs, dumbass.
Especially China.
We just don't talk about them because we're not Chinese.

>>3346225

Peak: 4.41% of budger, 1966.

TIL we're in 1967.

>mandate NASA does certain shit, like build a rocket to go back to the moon/mars
>slash budget so the programs actual scientists want to do can't be done and the mandated programs can't be completed for decades

fuck

3346038

> implying that a better understanding of the universe does not help people

>>3346235

If the US was into long term planning, they wouldn't be thirteen trillion in debt, would they?

Don't worry guys, those privately funded space programs that can't even make it into low earth orbit will take over any decade now. We don't need NASA.

Why don't you study jesus instead money wasters

>>3346276

so... will they be making telescopes, probes, etc.?

>>3346253
>European Space Program
>accomplish things

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH

>>3346262
>implying starving children want a better understanding of the universe.

>>3346276

>can't even make it into low earth orbit

Bitches don't know about my Falcon 9 and Falcon 9 Heavy, and contracts to put space hotels by 2014 or so and the Iridium folks too

>>3346288
Close, they'll be flying some rich people to the edge of the atmosphere for a few minutes of weightlessness.

>>3346235
Are you that fucking retarded?

Also fucking summer. You dumbass kids have absolutely no idea why they cut funding or WHO did it. Also the polls all show the vast majority of the people are agianst all activity in the middle east now. Instead, now we're stuck because retarded ass libshits and Europeans who are also libshits are in Libya wasting money playing world police. Fuck you all.

>>3346276

NASA is slowing us down, even. Step aside, big government! Let the invisible hand take over.

>>3346256
here, have some real information.

btw, gdp includes useless service sector jobs.

>>3346256

>>3346305
europeans are absolutely worthless in war, economy, science, and politics. Remember what Gates said?

What's worse is the fact they ran out of bombs without America around. Bunch of fucking idiots.

>>3346292

because asteroid mining certainly wouldn't boost the world economy, nope, nosir

>>3346305
No, we are in the middle east because we are trying to take control of them before the next decade when the next super power has the ability to influence them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oJUnG3Z6WI

>>3346305

>Implying the senate vote in favour of the libya kerfuffle wasn't unanimous

>>3346308

>Science spending as % of GDP goes down
>DUR HUR don't look at that statistic, look at the one which agrees with me.

>>3346306

take your religious bullshit out of /sci/

>>3346326
>kerfuffle

lol

Also i like the Libyan conflict. Useless libertarians are crying like bitches.

And the war power act is finally going to be thrown out.

>>3346337
>doesn't know about Adam Smith

>>3346213

>>obama made NASAs #1 mission an emotional outreach program to muslims and canceled their space exploration

>>THANKS LIBERALS

Actually, this is completely false:

http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2010/0714/NASA-chief-says-agency-s-goal-is-Muslim-outreach-forgets-
to-mention-space

"In an interview last month on Al-Jazeera, NASA chief Charlie Bolden said that one of NASA's foremost tasks is to engage with Muslim nations. The White House disagreed, suggesting that the agency should perhaps focus on space exploration."

>>Charlie Bolden said that one of NASA's foremost tasks is to engage with Muslim nations.
>>Charlie Bolden

>>The White House disagreed, suggesting that the agency should perhaps focus on space exploration.
>>The White House disagreed

>>3346336
>hurr, GDP is awesome taste, don't bother to question what GDP is in the first place.

its not canceled but delayed isnt it?

then they can get better technology in ?

>>3346383

>Implying the US economy didn't grow since the 1960s

>>3346365

>thinks Adam Smith is beholden to all of economics
>religious cockwhore

behavioral economics. learn it bitch

>>3346419
Just like duke nukem, obviously. They'll hire 3d realms to retrofit their engines.

Private entities have contributed and given more to science than any government ever in history.

>public science funding
>good

Enjoy hating on evolution you fucking socialists.

>>3346436

go suck ayn rand's cock, you know you want to

Man, this entire thread just makes me that much happier not to live in America.

>>3346436
So.. /sci/ has become the new playground for libertarian bullshiters?

>>3346447

apparently

4chan needs a politics board, or we need to shut them all in /x/ where they belong

>>3346474

>alex jones

>>3346474
I almost shit my pants at
>.999

>>3346374
>Bolden said President Barack Obama had charged him with three things upon becoming NASA administrator.
>"One, he wanted me to help re-inspire children to want to get into science and math; he wanted me to expand our international relationships; and third, and perhaps foremost, he wanted me to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with dominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science, math and engineering," Bolden said.

/sci/ - news

>>3346502

>>The White House disagreed, suggesting that the agency should perhaps focus on space exploration.

>>3346526
>YOU LIE!

>>3345939

NASA’s budget is about $18 billion a year.
That sounds like a lot, but in reality is only 0.6% of total US government spending.

>spend trillion per year on military
>18 billions NASA budget will ruin the economy!

some people are seriously retarded

>>3346514

You self-important cunt. NASA is science related.

Not this shit again.

Didn't we fucking lock in the budget for the next 3 years for NASA?

(Been out of touch due tot he Earthquake and tsunami here in Japan. )

>>3346502

NASA's job isn't to reach out to a bunch of butthurt sand niggers.

That was NASA's cue to say "not your personal army"

Hey /sci/.

I work as an engineer for NASA. I work with aircraft, so any details of the telescope are unknown to me. What I do know is that the JWST was going to be the next big thing in science. It would've put Hubble to shame, and we were all anxious for it's completion.
We were all very disappointed when Congress cut funding, but it isn't big news. 1993 Superconducting Supercollider was cancelled. Constellation was cancelled. Now the JWST. Everyone at NASA agrees that if their budget continues to decrease, NASA will effectively be done with any science related to space in 20-25 years, if not sooner. The United States complains more and more about how students aren't motivated to study science, and yet continue cutting programs and projects the are aimed to inspire students and push science forward. A colleague that works at Fermilab moved to CERN because it was where science was actually being done. The United States isn't the place to be if you want to see scientific innovation. Move to Europe.

This better not occur.

>>3347342
>engineer

Oh look, an argument about Nasa's budget money being better spent elsewhere. I know nothing about this subject, so it's off to wikipedia.
>Seen in the year-by-year breakdown listed below, the total amounts (in nominal dollars) that NASA has been budgeted from 1958 to 2008 amounts to $471.23 billion dollars

>NASA's 2011 budget is on a continuing resolution of the 2010 budget at $18.724 billion

Well that seems like a lot, let's find something to compare it to so the relation will put it in perspective.

>Military Budget Breakdown for 2012
>Total Spending $1.030–$1.415 trillion

Oh boy, looks like we got another "Close all state parks because a few underpaid park rangers spread out to cover whole regions are too costly and we certainly don't make any revenue from campers or other park users" deal.

So... how much longer till society collapses was it?

>>3347297

>>NASA's job isn't to reach out to a bunch of butthurt sand niggers.

Trailer trash doesn't get any say in what NASA does.

>>3347384

He's right. NASA is not a public relations firm. Their job is to do science.

>>3347392

His use of racist language underscores exactly why some sort of PR effort is justifiable. If he and those like him didn't go around throwing out terms like sand nigger it wouldn't be necessary. He has only himself and those like him to blame.

seriously space?

lol get a life this isnt the sixties

two, three decades more and NASA will be axed entirely and good riddance I say - it hasn't achieved anything significant in 30 years at least, by now its just a bunch of nerds building vastly overpriced lolrovers that we could actually outsource to the chinese and spend many times less if we absolutely have to do it at all

>>3347397

Right. Racism reduced the NASA budget. NASA was also to blame for why the muslim community can't recognize their own achievements in math and science. NASA has become an extension of Obama's foreign policy campaign.

Who is to blame? Try everyone in politics: House, Senate, and Executive

>>3347407

So long as you want to continue using racist language, you get no say in what NASA does. Racist people are scum.

>>3345975
>I don't care who it is, as long as it gets done.
>Advertising companies do it
>block out the sky with banners so we can't see the universe
>"accidentally" bump space based telescopes into the sun

>>3346016
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_rover

Russia pretty much paved the way for unmanned rovers...

>>3346318

The EU's larger economy would like a word.
CERN would like a word.

Try harder, cunt.

>>3346474

this comic is /new/'s crowning achievement, it always makes my eyes tear up

fucking moot, axing it and not giving us a politics board

Was it a hoax that coca cola wanted to place a visible ad in orbit at a huge cost?

>>3347404

How ignorant can you get? You do realise that NASA has had a hand in developing most of the technology you use today, right?

Excuse me?
Please tell me you're trolling.

>>3347435

This is a bullshit argument actually

Teflon has been around pre-ww2

Nasa merely adapted already commercially available stuff even in their most glorious days of apollo programs. The supposed utter cutting edge hitech shit developed by nasa is a total myth.

Otherwise how is it that the most complicated piece of equipment they are operating is 1970's technology and is notorious for being a dangerous mess that has cost many many lives already? Yeah its the shuttle im talking about.

You guys have this thinking where you hear space and think lasers teleportation colonization of space or fancy super advanced stuff but in reality all it takes is just a lot of money and that isn't something we can afford to throw away so a bunch of dudes at the ISS can pretend they're doing science by fondling their dicks in zero gravity

>>3347435
Well just for the sake of the truth NASA didn't had a share in most of the technologies that are currently used but definitely did develop some of the very strategical components of modern civilization. It's just that now de don't see when a breakthrough is done - because usually people prefer to read about Mr. David Cameron's stinking dumb ass than about say recent discovery of massive quasar that is about 13 billion years old and is pretty much a big question how could have it gone so massive so quickly after big bang. - It's not from NASA but from other scientific institution.

Reference for what exactly do I mean:
http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/newsandeventspggrp/imperialcollege/newssummary/news_30-6-2011-9-43-0

It can change our whole understanding of the universe, fundamental, physics... but yeah it's so useless how can it be ever useful, seriously who the would find hundred-fold improvement in internet speed useful or petawatt scale power plants, pure uselessness...

I have picked up these two areas since they get improved whenever scientific breakthrough is made in almost any even seemingly unrelated scientific area.

>>3346292
>Implying that the money from reducing scientific spending goes to helping starving children
>2011

>Air conditioning in Afghanistan costs more than NASA's entire budget
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/21/air-conditioning-military-cost-nasa_n_881828.html

>>3347426
EU's worthless economy is worthless.

CERN is funded by America too and has American scientists because you guys are fucking useless. You couldn't even get the LCH running without international aid, money, and support. Get fucked.

>>3347503
Fuck this, lets build our own particle accelerator sci

>>3347473
>huffingtonpost

Anyway, Obama was suppose to end it all, rite guise? Oh wai-

>>3347503
Said Ameritard.

>>3347503

Hahaha, Americans make me laugh.

Fuck off, troll. 3/10 for getting one serious reply.

>>3347503

>LCH

Confirmed for total ignorance. Yes, international aid, from EU members you fucktard.

I just talked to a girl that did not know what the hubble space telescope is.
Are people reallyl this fucking stupid in america? She is 20

>>3347448
>in reality all it takes is just a lot of money and that isn't something we can afford
>19 billions
>a lot of money

how do you name 1217 billions spent on wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? (+10.000 every second )

>>3347520
freedom

>>3347527
of war

>>3347527

>>3347533
Read it in Toad's voice.

>>3347520
And until your fruity little communist utopia becomes a reality and we start spending trillions on science and billions on defence, the best thing to do is to redirect NASA funding to something more profitable, like invest in America's great energy corporations.

>>3347542
>we start spending trillions on science and billions on defence

nobody is asking for this just shut the fuck up and stop saying NASA budget is a big deal

>People even remotely against NASA and exploration of the universe

How does it feel to have no humanity?

>>3347542
those money are war spendings only.
the defense budget is not included there.

>>3347542
Or military, cause what a fun it is to:
blow the shit out of random Afghan house $15000 missile + $1000 fuel
send a reconnaissance to the desert just for the lulz $2000
just somewhere lost $100 000 whoops
5 soldiers on a "rescue" mission ~$200 000 rescue subject blown up by granade
new <insert random vehicle that will never be used in a real war> $1000 000
new useless faulty communication system so that soldiers can download more porn $1000 per soldier per week

>>3346242
>implying most of nasa's crew isn't european

they're scientists, ofcourse they are.

>>3347559

And thats just direct costs of war.

Pissing off and radicalising muslims, thus in fact achieving exactly the opposite of what retard republicans mean: -15265648418 in damage caused by increased muslim extremism

Burning lots and lots of fossil fuels: -87463158544 in GW damages

>>3347559
>new <insert random vehicle that will never be used in a real war> $1000.000

you mean $150.000.000

>>3347567

Negative damage? Surely that's a good thing?

>>3347569
+70-100 billions development

americans you have let your people go more and more retarded every generation ,even Carl Sagan wrote about this

huurrrr war is traditioon huuuuuuuuuuurrr

fuck you retards

this country is only 200 years old and already we have had 10 major wars. We average a major war every 20 years in this country, so we are good at it! And that is good thing we are, we are not very good in anything else anymore. Can't built a decent car, can't make a TV set or VCR where the fuck. Got no steel industry left, can't educate our young people can't get health care for our old people...

...but we can bomb the shit out of your country alright?!

(George Carlin in his "Jammin' in New York" show 1992)

>>3347589
Can you remember any white people, we have ever bombed? The Germans! Those are the only ones and that is only because they were trying to cutting in our action. They wanted to dominate the world! Bullshit! That's our fucking job! Now, we only bomb brown people.

(same source)

bu-bu-bu-bump!

>>3347503

Lol. 1993- Superconducting Super Conductor cancelled by U.S. Congress. This was going to be what CERN is today.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_Super_Collider#Cancellation

EU economy worthless? Dubious. Not when they're taking the lead in the scientific community. The budget cuts to Fermilab and NASA are proof of that. Troll harder

The United States is laughable in anything technological unrelated to war. Sure we have the most superior aircraft, weapons, bla bla bla. Means nothing to the country as a whole that we can't even build a high speed railway. Asia and the EU are just rubbing it in our faces now.

>>3347542

America's great energy corporations? Yup. America is run primarily on oil, coal, and natural gas. Aside from being a publicity stunt, clean or renewable energy is the least of our cares.

>>3347572

first of all, find an american citizen that actually supports this

secondly why doesnt your country start its own space program? OH WAIT, you cant because your country is a piece of shit and your citizens are too apathetic to do anything for the betterment of mankind

just remember, no matter how much is cut from nasa, its still more than your country is doing

>>3347859
yeah, piece of shit countries like china and india
LOL you guys are so going down the shitter

Then again what the fuck is out in space that is going to benefit human kind? There are no solutions in space that can't be solved on Earth. Space exploration? There are no habitable planets anywhere near earth with a breathable atmosphere. Sure- if mars was like earth it would be cost-effective to go colonize it- but it isn't. There is no point in going to mars other than to stick a flag there to cockslap the face of the EU. If anything Asia will return to the moon and get to mars before America does, just because they have their shit together.

>find a tragic event that is hindering mankind

>try to find a way to pin it on american citizens

never change, rest of the world

since im sure your doing SO MUCH for the betterment of mankind by typing on 4chan

>>3347864
$100000000000s worth of minerals in every asteroid.

>>3347859

>betterment of mankind

name one "betterment of mankind" that is out in space that can't be implemented on the planet

>>3347863


OH NO NOT CHINA

oh boy, a country that cant even build a fucking aircraft carrier is going to overtake us in space programs

you poor delusional fuck

>>3347859

I'm Russian. We beat you guys to it.

>>3347871


i dont know if youve been living under a fuckin rock, but earth doesnt have unlimited space, and in case you didnt notice, the human experience is spreading like wildfire

to put it simply

WERE RUNNING OUT OF FUCKING ROOM, CAPTAIN

>>3347870

Are you just going to wait for an asteroid to fly by earth to mine it? Good luck making that cost-effective

Going to go mine it from the belt between jupiter and mars? How did you solve the propulsion and fuel problems? I can't run my car on asteroid minerals. There are a fuckton of problems that need to be solved before anything remotely close to outer-space mining can even be considered

>>3347864
>>3347871

Blatant samefag.

Also, have you not noticed how many benefits space travel have given us? Do you think there are unlimited resources on Earth, too?

Fucking retard.

I think science and progress is gong to start stagnating until people understand the difference between races and eliminate the jews.

>>3347880

No shit, you tool. That's why we need to develop space programs to get that fucking technology you fucking idiot.

>>3347879

Again, another problem that can be solved on earth without going to space. The growth rate of world population is dropping and is expected to level out at 10 bil.

http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/wpp2000/wpp2000_volume3.htm

under "population size and composition" pg. 2.

>>3347870
one billion?
seriously now?
because as far as I know there are rocks with things like billon tons of platinum on them.

>>3347880
you can run your car on fucking sea water

>>3347899

But our resources will run out, you fucking stupid shit.

Also, whatever happened to pioneering human progress? Exploration for the sake of it. Without that we'd still be living in fucking caves.

>>3347883

Space for resources? Not until we expend everything on earth. The prospects for thorium as an energy source are more promising than any energy source that can be provided by an asteroid, and there is more thorium in the earth's crust than oil. Space is the final frontier, not the next.

>final frontier
>final

>>3347903

>Exploration for the sake of it

Tell me what is out there within human reach that we can't send a probe to? What is in our solar system that we haven't already sent a probe to? Human progress? We can't even solve problems on earth. Resources or not, if humankind can't even get their shit together on their own planet, what makes you think we can even colonize another?

>>3347913
nuclear fuel isn't everything we need
imagine that fuckton of metals and minerals we can mine on asteroids?

>>3347913

You're still missing the point of space travel. Go read/watch some Carl Sagan

>>3347901

>you can run your car on fucking sea water

Thank you for making my point for me. There is no reason to leave earth besides "exploration"

>>3347933

Read Cosmos and Pale Blue Dot. I'm not disagreeing with you. Space exploration would benefit humankind beyond what we can fathom now.

Is it going to take off in your lifetime? NO
Does humankind have bigger problems to solve? YES
Can most of humankind's problems be solved on earth? YES

What fucking point are you trying to make? Sure asteroids have a ton of metals, so does earth. We haven't even tapped the vast amounts of metals under the ocean.

NASA can't even send up a new telescope. Space exploration is not even on the fucking agenda you moron.

>>3347949
How are you going to solve over population?
Stop having babies overnight when its already too late?

>>3347933

Carl Sagan was a great astronomer and all, but at best he was a visionary. If you actually think anything he proposes will happen before Earth can get it's own shit together, you better re-read/re-watch anything by Carl Sagan

>>3347952

How are YOU going to solve overpopulation?
By the time we even get the technology or get organized to even consider such an endeavor to get to another planet we will have reached peak population, expected to reach 10 billion. At that point its too late anyway

>>3347961
I wasn't going to. But not taking necessary steps now doesn't make it easier later. But who cares, because YOU don't have to deal with it.

>make satellites for a private company
And not a single fuck was given.

>>3347954

>Implying Sagan didn't contribute excellent amounts of research regarding the planet Venus and global warming.

Unless y'know, you think global warming is a myth.

>>3347961

Overpopulation solved by space travel?

We can barely send up 5 or 6 astronauts at a time and you're considering sending a couple billion?

Troll harder, son.

>>3347973
>implying he means now
>0/10

>>3347971

Again, global warming. Another problem NOT solved by going into space.

>>3347979
implying that by researching global warming that we can't also be committing efforts into space flight

1. NASA is an indispensable organization that should remain, if anything to increase jobs

2. The dems are the ones trying to shut down the space program, not the republicans

3. Dem ideology right now is to increase spending to fix a problem that cannot be fixed by throwing money at it

4. Spending must be cut from all these programs that support the lazy and responsible of those nation in the form of Medicare, welfare, and housing.

5. That saved income needs to be spent towards creating ventures which in turn create jobs to slash this 9% unemployment rate

People just don't seem to get it...

>>3347976

>implying the relocation of less than a couple billion people will be needed to solve the "overpopulation problem"
>implying population won't level out
>implying problem can't be solved on Earth

>>3347997
>Implying 'levelling out' will be caused by everyone holding hands and deciding to have less babies and not war, famine, and disease.

>>3347984
>>4. Spending must be cut from all these programs that support the lazy and responsible of those nation in the form of Medicare, welfare, and housing.

what, all 1.8% of the budget that goes towards welfare? great thinking capitalist joe

>>3347983

Good luck convincing politicians.

We sacrifice long term gain for short term satisfaction. One day people will look back at us in disappointment.

>>3348004

You don't get it, they would actually have to work then. Take money away and put it to job creation and it solves the problem.

>>3348003

>did not imply cause

If you read the article you would know why population is leveling out. It's not because people are "holding hands and deciding not to have babies" or because of a projected war, famine, or disease. Although any one of the last three on a global scale will actually reduce the population. Go read the article, explaining to you is not worth my time.

NASA and space related activities had been on the down since Prometheus was shut down in 2005. I knew then that any space related enterprise will no longer dominated by the US government.

i dont get why you all hate bombing brown people

>>3348010
>Implying reading it is worth my time if you can't take 20 sec to type a brief summary
All righty then.

>>3348010

Population growth decreasing. Will level off and begin to drop as technology progresses, and more first and second world countries develop. Overpopulation is not a foreseeable crisis. Maybe in China and India, but not on a global scale.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_growth#Human_population_growth_rate

>>3348027
If true, then that is promising.

>>3347976

You seem to have some sort of futuristic plan to migrate billions of people to a distant planet. The only factor stopping you is money. Lots and lots of money, that will most likely go into solving problems back on earth. Welcome to modern times.

>>3348036
No.
The idea is to have the technology and infrastructure developed by the time we need to migrate hunreds or thousands of people off planet.
For time scales involving migrations of millions of people in a relatively short time, the difference it makes if we start now or in 100 years is negligible.

>>3346000

That does not comply with this nations idealism. We are a multicultural nation of many ideas and one spirit. We don't spread "our values," we assimilate other peoples "values," and make them our own!

>>3348043


>>3348027 There is your proof. Overpopulation is not the critical motivator for space travel. Maybe it will be hundreds of years from now, when the technology is improved substantially, but by then the same technology can be implemented to solve more of earth's problems. This is all of course if we don't blow ourselves up, which is far more likely to occur than us getting to a point in the future where we colonize other planets.

Pic related: humanity's future.

>>3348067
>>3348078
Agreed.

>>3348078

lolno. Pic actually related

>NASA
>Ultra left socialist organization that has never given society anything useful

Wow they stuck a guy on the moon, yep, that really gave us something important.. oh wait, it didn't except dick waving against the commies (which is ironic considering Nasa is a commie organizaion)

NASA is entirely pointless, they have done nothing of worth that has actually produced anything and honestly, it would be better off being sold off piece by piece to private organizations like Virgin who actually have a goal for space.

Oh wow a pointless telescope canned, in other news, hundreds of soldiers die in Iraq and Afghanistan, perhaps there is some better things we should be spending the money on than some stupid telescope.

The Free Market will handle space 10,000x better than NASA.

pic related, it's humanity's future

>>3348094
>American soldiers in Iran and Afghanistan
Uh, who cares about them? what did they do that was useful? die? lol

>>3348094

0/10

ITT: butthurt Sagan and NASA fanatics

>>3348094
xcuze me sir, have you ever heard of this stuff?

nasa invented it. It's useful. I'm using it now to hold my laptop to the wall.

America - with the power to explore space, but chooses to dominate the planet instead.

Prepare to pick up them cans, people of the world.

>>3348094
>never given society anything useful

I guess that money would have been better spent on automated arse-scratching devices and self-driving mobility scooters than on realising the beauty of the universe.

Fuck this suddenly reminds me of the reaction to the plan to observe a satellite crashing into the moon. It doesn't put food on the table and so on.

>>3348101

>>3348094
>MFW I read opinion pieces like this every day in News Corp newspapers.

One thing of note I have noticed is that after Osama was killed, News Corp has started rallying against "Communists and Socialists" again.

Oh keep on fear mongering Murdoch you leech of a human you.

>>3348094

>implying if NASA is sold off in pieces to companies like virgin, soldiers will stop dying in iraq and afghanistan

>>3348018
>>3348018
>>3348018
>>3348018

THIS
>>3348018

>>3348110
>Nasa invented Velcro
Wat?

No, it was a swiss electrical engineer. NASA became interested though and bought it.

>ITT left-wing Star Trek fetishist wackos with no grasp of reality want the U.S to give up strategic power in favor of making their ONELOVE, ONELIFE dreams of hippy space exploration come true

Welcome to geopolitics, space aventurers.

NASA: Non Applicable Scientific Aspirations

they better not pass this

>>3348136

I think he was being sarcastic.

This thread is dead...along with NASA

>>3348094

So NASA is useless to you?

Sorry, you can't use your mobile phone anymore.
Sorry, you can't fly on modern planes anymore.
Sorry, you can't use your GPS system anymore.
etc. etc.

>>3348141

So the desire to advance the human race makes me a whacko?

Jesus Christ, what is the world coming to?

>>3348199

woah. lets back some shit up.

Mobile phone: Bell
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone#History

Modern aircraft: If we're talking about jet propulsion, the Germans started it in WWII. NASA is not responsible. Rocket propulsion, also a German. NASA just continued the research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_178

GPS: based on relativistic physics = Einstein. GPS was invented by the DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE by Ivan Getting

NASA is responsible for SOME modernization, not all, and definitely not responsible for their invention. NASA at best is a government run research operation.

>>3348236

Of course I'm not saying that NASA is responsible for their invention. What I AM saying is that they're responsible for their widespread usage and a lot of the current technology that goes into them.

With planes, I meant more the ultra-lightweight materials that go into them as opposed to the jet engine, which was obviously invented pre-NASA.

Pic related: NASA

>>3348236

Of course I'm not saying that NASA is responsible for their invention. What I AM saying is that they're responsible for their widespread usage and a lot of the current technology that goes into them.

With planes, I meant more the ultra-lightweight materials that go into them as opposed to the jet engine, which was obviously invented pre-NASA.

Mobile phone networks rely massively on satellites these days, as do many television services etc. I'm pretty sure a lot of the very compact technology that goes into them had its genesis at NASA, too.

Of course the physics behind GPS was not discovered by NASA, but without them they sure as hell wouldn't've been able to put the satellites in space for it etc.

NASA's greatest contribution to human life: saving 33 miners in Chile

oh the irony

Physics fag here. Big fan of NASA and Sagan. Aspire to work for NASA someday (if it doesn't disappear)

I've got to admit, NASA has no place in U.S. politics or economics. It is bound to fail if it relies solely on federal funds to make up its budget. Plus it doens't produce nearly enough to make it a priority in funding. It could probably increase its budget by moving into the private sector.

>>3347880

>Are you just going to wait for an asteroid to fly by earth to mine it? Good luck making that cost-effective

actually we could if you actually knew the amount of near-earth asteroids there are without talking out of your goddamn ass

also, I think developing asteroid deflection and exploitation technology would be helpful to the betterment of mankind -- unless you think dying like the dinosaurs is better for us

>>3348297

Once again. More cost effective to mine the oceans for minerals. Aside from oil, we haven't even begun to tap the resources the ocean provides, and it covers 70% of the planet.

I would agree with your asteroid deflection system. Makes perfect sense. Now to convince those politicians.

>>3348094

oh yeahhhh suck that cock, ayn rand wants it hard

>>3348306

If you think that deepwater mining is any easier then you're wrong. They're only just making headway into getting rare earth metals from ridges in the Pacific, and it's relying on a lot of tech currently used in space travel due to the extreme pressures.

>>3348306

Yes Asteroid mining would be a good viable option. Here's what we have to do to make that possible.
1. Develop some easier way to get materials to and from space (idea of a space elevator)
2. develop a strategic mining operation with platform, either in space or on the moon

Solve these problems first, and you can start your full blown cost-effective mining operation

>>3347913
>Expend everything on Earth
>Have no materials to use to get into space or to use on research to get into space.

>>3348203
You know who else wanted to "advance the human race"?

Yeah.

>>3348322

Extreme pressures sure. But as soon as you start worrying about space you have just as many problems, not to mention power. How are you going to power all this technology in space? If you think a bunch of solar panels are going to power your mining operation, get real.

>>3348306

not really. instead of pushing them away, throw them into orbit, and have a robot mining and retrieving system. how is that more cost effective then building platform capable pf withstanding the enormous pressures miles in the ocean? you have numbers? if i had to guess it'd probably be the same

>>3348286
So in other words NASA's only future according to you is:

NASA = cheap broadband telecom, cheap electro-optics patents for Cannon and Nikon with a little bit of overpriced money laundering from the military (cause we all know that you can't "legalize" $10bn of taxpayers through a bookshop). Why so cheap? Because in commercial terms:

better = cheap + quality products lost in the shit-tons of cheap shit and enormous epicstorm of deceptive marketing trash talking.

Bright future, really. It seems Malaysian space program might be better off while not even mentioning China. (slight exaggeration in short term future)

>>3348327

Your idea to mine in space is great. You just have to solve a bunch of other problems first. It will be a viable option in say 100 years. I'll be generous and say 50 years, if the human race decides to get things done and stop fucking around.

We can mine the oceans now. And by the time space mining is a viable option, i doubt we will have mined all the resources the ocean can provide

>>3348094
> in other news, hundreds of soldiers die in Iraq and Afghanistan

They knew what they were getting themselves into. They go to a country to fight against people who are fighting us because we fought their Fathers.

Or at least I hope they know what they are getting in to.

>>3348333

Nice cherry picking, bro.

>>3348335

solar power works great in space. nasa's panels are like 25% efficient or so I believe. and nuclear power is very efficient

you could have a 5 mile long power cable running from the surface i guess, but still i'd think it'd be more cost effective to have the power in house, and there's only so much one can do down there. you would have the advantage of geothermal though

still there's retrieval just like in asteroid mining. and there's the long term of this, earth only has so many resources

>>3348352

Of course, but to overcome those issues we need NASA to develop the intermediate space technology to get us there.

>>3348340

Dont kid yourself. We can mine the ocean floors even with the pressure.

http://www.nautilusminerals.com/s/2010Programs.asp

>>3348368
Okay, how about this humanitarian hero?

Surely, he helped advance humanity, erased our "irrational" traditions and brought us into the "light of reason"?

Right? Right?

>>3348377

>we need NASA to develop the intermediate space technology to get us there

Nobody needs NASA. The private sector can do anything the government can do twice as fast with better technology. When it feels the needs to go into space it will. It doesn't need a giant space station in space to perform useless experiments as an international publicity stunt.

>>3348352
I don't think mining in space is the most important aspect to space travel, I think it is just for explorations sake.

Exploration has usually always bettered human kind in the past, and it will do in the future.

And who knows, going in to space could help us with our issues on Earth via technology created through this program.

I do agree with you though, we need to sort shit out on this planet, but we shouldn't put all of our resources in to it.

And I'm not the guy who you are debating science mining with.

>>3348394

2 people?

Thousands upon thousands have advanced humanity for the better, and you're against it because a handful fucked it up? Wow. Just wow.

Hey guys! One day until the final shuttle launch. Come watch see NASA's realization that space is a waste of money and resources!

>>3348398

So that's why they can't even make it into LEO yet? RIght.

>>3348419

>>3348418
>a handful fucked it up

We can keep this up all evening.

>>3348398

>useless experiments

Do you even know what the ISS does?

I didn't think so. Why don't you stop being a narrow-minded fuck and start contributing to humanity.

>>3348426

I know, but for every one you can post I can post 10 that got it right.

This idiot actually thinks trying to advance humanity is a bad thing.

>>3348431

*1000

>>3348422

Retard. Name one useful thing the ISS has done or has discovered that is useful for humankind.

"Conducting experiments in the near-weightlessness of low-earth orbit has been useful but it has not resulted in earth-shattering conclusions. Indeed, many scientists believe it could all have been done at far lower cost by using unmanned spacecraft, which are far cheaper because they do not require the high level of safety needed for a manned mission. " Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-big-question-has-the-space-station-achieved-anything-o
r-is-it-a-waste-of-money-1028133.html

That is why private industry hasn't even made it to LEO. They don't need to waste the money

But Obama said he also wants to continue a mission to mars program.

>>3348431
>>3348431
>>3348431
>>3348431
>>3348431
>>3348431
>>3348431
>>3348431
>>3348431

>>3348431
"Advance humanity" is (and always has been) a euphemism for "destroy traditional civilization, culture and hierarchy".

>>3348440

>>3348398
Private sector is looking max. 2 years into the future. If you expect private sector to build a proper long terms strategy you are either very naive.

Every technology has a certain equivalent to a "band gap" sort if minimal resources you need to get it. Usually private sector can harness enough resources (not just money but experts as well) to build improvements. But if you would expect private sector to build nuclear power program, space program (from scratch - not after 60 years of space flight experience and stealing experienced NASA and Roskosmos experts).

>Private sector is looking max. 2 years into the future

Prove that to me and I'll believe it.

>>3348456
What form of answer do you accept as a proof?

>>3348445

Oh really? Tell that to these guys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_scientists

>>3348445

I don't think you know what 'advancing humanity' entails.

Protip: it's not something only moral philosophers can do.

>This idiot actually thinks trying to advance humanity is a bad thing.

Going to the moon didn't "advance humanity." History didn't witness a philosophical revolution take place when we got to the moon. If anything it created a widespread conspiracy. As far as NASA goes, any government research program can make amazing technological discoveries with the proper amount of funding. Lawrence Livermore is doing it with nuclear fusion, a fuckton more useful than anything done in space. Politics can pull the trigger on NASA whenever it wants. NASA is trying, yes. Doing it, no. Legitimate reason to stop funding.

>>3348445
Research in hall-effect semiconductor sensors - how the fuck is THAT destroying the humanity?

>>3348484
Many technological advances have been instrumental in destroying societies.

This is obvious. Playing with fire is no way to structure a civilization and is no good thing.

>>3348488
The 'philosophers' I have listed are hardly moral.

>>3348494

Holy shit. See >>3348488

>>3348498

I don't support this discussion, but science also brought us the nuclear bomb. It did NOT benefit humanity, in fact, now humanity is always on the verge of destroying itself. Science brought humanity one-step closer to armageddon

>>3348502

>Slippery slope argument.

So we shouldn't do any technological advancements because they might lead to bad things? Better blame that caveman who discovered fire.

>Does not know what 'moral philosopher' means.

Protip: it doesn't mean they were moral people by your arbitrary measure, it means they dealt with morality.

>>3348511

Yet it's also wiped out smallpox.

Science is not 'good' or 'bad', it is there to discover things, whatever they may be. Who are you to stop people being curious?

Dear retards supporting NASA

NASA had its time. Politics has dictated its time is over. NASA is not the future. If humanity has any future in space, someone other than NASA will have to take the lead, an organization not governed by politics.

Once again, relying on the government, and therefore NASA, to "advance humanity" is a joke. Stop trying to rescue NASA from its inherent flaw

the international space station

$100 billion cost

no great scientific breakthroughs

really cool pictures from space

>>3348514
Most technological advances have taken place in the public sector - i.e, government controlled. Military budget is often used to secretly allow the state to commit to technological advances which we don't hear about.

Example: Internet. The Internet was in the hands of the government years before it was made available to citizens.

Call me crazy but, looking at history, I just don't trust the government to do what's right. At least, not these days. Not with the radical nutjobs we have in power. It used to be that power and authority had backing and dignity behind it, now we just have anybody who thinks they can reason human nature away in power.

>Protip: it doesn't mean they were moral people by your arbitrary measure, it means they dealt with morality.

Yes, but I think it would be better if we called these people what they are : radical murderers, not thinkers. Certainly not moral thinkers.

>>3348528

Dear samefag, please fuck off.

It makes me lose faith in humanity when I see extremely short-sighted people like you. The government is what helped NASA achieve what it did 50 years before any private sector company did. It doesn't have its interests dictated by the free market, it has them dictated by the spirit of discovery and curiosity etc. It did it for the hell of it, and that's what makes it good.

I am getting very sick of people who feel the need for everything to have short-term gains these days, because often that's not what science is about.

>>3348546

>short-term gains

welcome to america, home of NASA.

>>3348540

I agree that governments should not be trusted, but to declare science as bad purely because it is abused by those in powers is simply not fair.

Most discoveries can be used for bad or good, so please don't automatically assume the worst when we make breakthroughs.

>>3348528
Because in the country of democracy oligarchy rules what will happen not the people. That's why it's called DEMOCRACY.

But yes I have to admit you're right that if a politician says "no progress" then the progress gets killed for real. And there trully isn't and never ever was any true democracy (other than "you can vote your representative if your representatives name is abc or cba").

>>3348546

I'm honestly tired of the fact that we need to even defend NASA in the first place.

Don't people care about the universe?

Nobody damn well does, and neither do the government. It's time for the private sector to evolve.

>>3348540

>
Yes, but I think it would be better if we called these people what they are : radical murderers, not thinkers. Certainly not moral thinkers.

I wouldn't say that - many of them had their ideas abused and warped beyond recognition before they were put into practice. A good example is Marx - Stalinism and Maoism would not be communism in his eyes by a long shot.

However, my point remains that many moral thinkers HAVE done a lot for humanity - Kant, Hume and Hegel, to name a few.

>>3348562
You mean:
Pencil is a horrible invention because you can hypothetically stick it into someone's throat and kill him. Pencils are deadly weapons.

or

Books are horrible inventions, you can torn out several pages tick them into someone's throat and choke him. Books are deadly weapons.


(yes it is meant parodistic)

>>3348598

Yes.

A real world example would be the discovery of controlled nuclear fisson.

On the one hand we have nuclear power, which is (usually) extremely safe and environmentally friendly.

On the other we have nuclear weapons.

>>3347879
i dont disagree with you about space exploration being important, but population control measures like contraception , education and health are far more cost effective than expanding into space. Especcially in the long term since just letting population grow is going to bring even more costs with it due to things like resource scarcity and environmental degredation

OP is just a butthurt wannabe astronaut. There's a reason your telescope was cancelled: we don't need it. It is a waste of money that will be used in a more useful and productive manner. Get your head out of your ass and start living in the present and stop concerning yourself with the future. There are more important problems that need to be solved. Hubble is still there, get the stick out of your ass.

>>3348831

Antihuman identified and marked for extermination.

lets better the human condition by posting on 4chan and see how far we get

somebody 404 this thread

>>3348831
>used in a more useful and productive manner.

>>3348831

Agreed. OP, its not as if we don't already have telescopes up there. Science will continue even if JWST isn't put up yet.

The entire world is up in arms about the economy and war, etc. Space isn't a concern we should be involved with at the moment. Maybe when things get better?

>>3348873
Take a look at how much money that is as compared to the total budget, and then try saying it again.

Not to mention the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

>>3348870

>used in a more useful and productive manner.

Like my job. I want to economy to get better so I don't lose it.

I don't know if you know this, but there are budget cuts all over the place, not just from NASA. Its an attempt to decrease the national debt so this country isn't entirely owned by china.

>>3348897
>attempt to decrease the national debt
good luck bud

>>3348528

This. How do you expect NASA to advance humanity if they keep on getting hung up by politics. Government funding aside, they're still a puppet of politics.

>>3348438

And this. How do you justify $100 billion with very little technological breakthroughs or little scientific advancement. If anything its just a publicity stunt.

>>3348920

>there are budget cuts all over the place, not just from NASA

Thank you for making my point. If you think NASA's budget is going to get any better in the 20+ years its going to pay this off, you're being very unrealistic.

meanwhile, in the military...

>>3348943

lol because our military uses ak-47's

nice try

0/10

>>3348955
Those are probably all siezed from somewhere.

>>3348955
>McAvoy
>U.S. Army

you not so bright huh?

>>3348966

like that money

looks like a drug raid

ITT: Aspies get all angry thinking a budget cut will destroy the JWST and burn the pieces.

also, I have some pieces of the real one, not OPs fake one in the pic

>>3348931

Answer the question OP

You didn't see any of that coming?

>>3345981
i-am-so-retarded.jpg

>>3348943
only thing in that pic that made me mad

In reality that telescope does nothing to protect or serve the people of the United States,we need to re-open the F-22 line before we go building more faulty space microscopes

>>3348989

this

It's okay OP. this means more funding for "reaching out to the muslim world"

Real science.

>>3349021
go back to /k/, knucklehead

"The bill also would provide $812 million for the Joint Polar Satellite System, or JPSS, being developed by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)."

This will probably monitor global warming, also known as a REAL PROBLEM.

>>3349021
So you'r raptors just rust away in the same way as every nuclear warhead built after WW2 and make £1T literally wasted without a single trace? Are you awaiting a massive scale war upcoming?
Well simple solution, don't piss off the whole world with aggressive invasions and there will be no need to have gazillion trillion dollars on military budget ($30billion on air conditioning alone in Afghanistan as someone has posted before).

$100 billion on the ISS? No scientific breakthroughs?
And you wonder why Congress has lost faith in NASA. NASA fails to deliver.

>>3349109
Where did you got there's no progress? Are fucking retarded? There are plenty of laboratory modules and hundreds of experiments have been conducted. Google it yourself.

>>3349104

>loves NASA
>hates military

sounds like an angry liberal hippie.

>>3349128

Source was given.

Name one scientific breakthrough attributed to NASA that justifies $100 billion.

>>3349135

>Ad hominem

So that discredits his arguments?

Go back to the '60s, McCarthy.

>>3349158
given that the satellite industry is worth $100-$150 billion a year i think the pioneers deserve a little credit.

>>3349212

>referring to the $100 billion invested in the international space station

>>3349231
actually you only said
>attributed to NASA
so i'll stick with that or micro-processors its not entirely historically actuate but you did say "attributed" to NASA

ohshit this thread

again