/sci/ - Science & Math

>LOOK AT LINK
>cnn.com ... zubrin.mars

ALL OF MY JIZZ

>>3304953
>read comments
OH FUCK NO

>>3304949
Last link, better quality
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bECbNkzlRTI&feature=related

ALSO IT SHOULDN'T BE HUMANS TO MARS IN FIFTY YEARS, IT SHOULD BE HUMANS TO MARS IN TEN

>>3304955
I know. HURR DURR BALANCED BUDGET etc.etc.

1. The one and only time our national budget has been balanced was during Andrew Jackson's administration.

2. NASA's budget is TINY compared to other budget items...see Medicare, Medicaid, and defense spending.

3. For such a (relatively) reasonable budget value, the country reaps vast rewards. Ask any scientist who was between the ages of 5 and 15 when Apollo 11 happened. Moments such as this inspire can inspire a generation to pick up science as a profession, which has great benefits for the nation.

4. Yes, probes are cheaper. Yes, probes can pick up lots more raw data than a manned mission. But probes fail to inspire in the way manned flight can. And besides, what's all the probes leading to? Why do we care about sending weather analyzing satellites to Mars, REALLY? It's to one day go there. All this is leading to humanity leaving Earth and exploring interstellar space. It has to start somewhere. And why not now...as the CNN article stated, today's budget is about the same as the budget during the Apollo era, why aren't we doing more? Maybe this kind of thing would bring the country together at a time when it really needs it.

>>3304975
Don't tell me this, I wanna go clubbing the heads of every dipshit that goes DERP MARS COSTS TRILLIONS KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY MONEY DON'T TREAD ON ME

>>3304949
>IMO we need interplanetary colonization to spur our evolution.

wat

Maybe in the sense of the evolution of our civilisation but biologically evolution is going to take place no matter what we do.

>>3304979
One of the things that makes evolution occur is a separation of populations, whether temporal or spatial. Spatial could mean different niches or different areas of geography entirely.

Truth is, humans are too mobile for us to evolve beyond the point we're at. We've colonized the entire planet. And as long as people from one end of the planet mate with people from another end, we'll always remain one species.

We're literally reached the point where the only way we can sufficiently separate ourselves to spur evolutionary change is by colonizing other worlds.

>>3304984
Sorry,

>We've literally reached

>>3304984
...And then VASMIR becomes produced commercially in 100 years and we have 7 day Mars shuttles. How about month-long Saturnian voyages?

P.S. Don't take the Neptune shuttles, two months of rooms that smell slightly like vomit.

>>3304975
>inspire can inspire

FUCK I'm full of derp this morning...

>>3304984
>Truth is, humans are too mobile for us to evolve beyond the point we're at

I always cringe when people assert we have stopped evolving because it shows a lack of understanding of how evolution works.

Evolution is not purposeful and it does not have any goals in mind. Mutations occur all the time and this is, in essence, what evolution is.

Do you know people with autism, colour blindness, extra toes? All have been asserted to be advantageous in some way and suggested as the next evolutionary stepping stone and all are down to simple mutations. We will never 'stop' evolving because we cannot. The only way we can prevent this is through perfect cloning.

You are mistaking diversity as a necessity for evolution whereas diversity is actually only a useful tool to weed out advantageous mutations from less advantageous mutations. Those mutations will still occur either way.

>>3304999
I understand the concept of mutation. I should have been more clear -- evolution always occurs, but wouldn't you agree that the rate of evolutionary change depends partly on the environment in which the animal lives? Mobile as we are, evolution has slowed to a crawl...but if you'd take a group of humans and move them to a place such as Mars, those people would begin adapting at a faster rate, no?

>>3305021
>adapting at a faster rate

Perhaps I should say "changing" at a faster rate. A colony of Mars humans would be hardier than many on Earth, as well as being highly trained, intelligent scientists. Lol they could spawn a race of superbabies.

man on mars during our lifetime

feelsgoodman.jpg

>>3305030
>move them to a place such as Mars, those people would begin [changing] at a faster rate
I agree, this almost certainly would happen.

>A colony of Mars humans would be hardier than many on Earth, as well as being highly trained, intelligent scientists
Your problem, displayed here once again, is you are far too optimistic. Once again, evolution has no stated goal or aim. The fact is 99% of species here on Earth are dead - look at what happened to the dinosaurs. And that was on the same planet!

The truth is taking us out of Earth and placing us on such an alien atmosphere as Earth will almost assuredly result in our deaths. Even if a very few people were somehow able to survive on Mars naturally (I don't see how, we're way too adapted to Earth) it would be the very athletic people with larger lung capacities and fitter bodies, which are not your typical scientists.

>>3305044
>placing us on such an alien atmosphere as Earth
Derp, I meant Mars

>>3304993
>...And then VASMIR becomes produced commercially in 30 years and we have 7 day Mars shuttles. How about month-long Saturnian voyages?

ftfy

>Thus, if the theory is correct that life is a natural phenomenon emerging from chemistry wherever there is liquid water, various minerals and a sufficient period of time, then life must have appeared on Mars.
>then life must have appeared on Mars.
>must
nope.jpg
This guy is contracted to do R&D for NASA.
And they wonder why they're not getting anywhere

>>3304979
Colonising Mars could lead to unforeseen mutations, at least in the population of Mars.

>>3304970
Eh, deGrasse is wrong about the banks. They knew they'd fuck up, they just knew they'd get bailed out too.

They're profit driven. Of course they'd play that game.

/sci/ supports colonisation of Mars because it would be their idea of heaven. Only the intelligent get to go, it's eugenics by proxy.

Of course you end up with a situation in a few hundred years where Mars is the far superior civilisation. Dem jelly Earthlings.

jesus, reading the comments on cnn.com really makes me lose faith in humanity.

case in point

>"Robert Zurbin failed to mention one important fact. How do we get off Mars? It can't be done the same way it was done on the moon. The moon is 1/4 the size of Earth, so the moon's gravity is much less than the earth's gravity, 83.3%. Martian gravity is 62% less than earths. So we will need a stronger rocket to get off mars. He also doesn't address where the money is going to come from."
- hiker 49

DO THESE PEOPLE HAVE NO CONCEPT OF READING COMPREHENSION!?

>"The mission could then be accomplished with two launches. The first would send an unfueled and unmanned Earth Return Vehicle (ERV) to Mars."

>"After landing, this vehicle would manufacture its own methane/oxygen return propellant by combining a small amount of hydrogen imported from Earth with a large supply of carbon dioxide acquired from the Martian atmosphere. The chemistry required to perform this operation has been widely practiced on Earth since the gaslight era."


>"Once the propellant is manufactured, the crew is sent to Mars in a habitation module launched by the second booster. After a six-month voyage to Mars, the hab module is landed near the ERV and used as the crew's base for exploring the Martian surface."


>"The issue is not money. The issue is leadership. NASA's average Apollo-era (1961-73) budget, adjusted for inflation, was about $19 billion a year in today's dollars, only 5% more than the agency's current budget. "

>>3305094
I bet you read Youtube comments too.
What the fuck were you expecting?

>>3305097

it was cnn.com, i hoped for atleast some resemblance of intelligence.

if they go to mars i WILL make them take me with them to escape the stupid.

>>3305093
Inb4 they take some useless tards with them to be politically correct.

Hey, if they made use of the ice on Mars, couldn't that be the first step toward an autonomous Martian community?

Just send them up there with some seeds, solar generators, wind generators and they could melt the ice, begin agricultural development and start living there permanently. It wouldn't even be that hard.

>>3305114
isn't that Ice made of CO2?

Everyone in this thread needs to enjoy reading Red Mars.

>>3305159
http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2011/04/mars-south-pole-holds-nearly-an-atmospheres-worth-of-co2
.ars

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars#Hydrology
>However, the two polar ice caps appear to be made largely of water.[46][47] The volume of water ice in the south polar ice cap, if melted, would be sufficient to cover the entire planetary surface to a depth of 11 meters.[48] A permafrost mantle stretches from the pole to latitudes of about 60°.[46]

When will someone make a video game simulator of Martian colonisation?

Like Oregon Trail in space.

>>3305169 entire surface
>11 meters

I didnt think mars was that flat. What about olympus mons?

>>3305187
I'd much prefer to do it for real.

>>3305192
IF Mars was that flat, it would cover it to a depth of 11 meters. And I'm quite sure there is far more ice than that.

>>3305196
Yeah, but you never will.

Might as well enjoy a little video game.

>>3305169
We should start terraforming now.

>>3305203

>>3305207
In time, young padawan. Give it another 25 years for proper automation technologies and a better political climate alongside better space infrastructure.

>>3305169
To make such a planet habitable is almost too easy. And of all the places in the cosmos, it's right next door to a species which is looking to expand.

No distance at all away is a planet which can be made habitable simply by sowing seeds and melting some ice. As easy as opening up a nicely packaged birthday present...

Almost like it was made that way... Like it was made for us...

>>3305222

>>3305222

>>3305249
YOU

CCM, can I have a way of contacting you outside of /sci/ that isn't AIM?

>>3305222
that picture is fucking brutal

Can we make Mars so there wont be minus 60 celsius?

>>3305258
Now in wallpaper form!

>>3305262
Yes!
We can make it warmer than Earth if we want.

>>3305263
thanks man

>>3305255

>>3305268
How quickly can we do it?

Will I be able to take my grandchildren to visit Olympus Mons national park?

>>3305275

That's going to require some heavy artillery.

http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/9601-news.html#RTFToC53

Pic related.

Mars has no protective magnetic field around it to speak of. It's core appears to be frozen. You are going to have to build any long term settlements underground or the inhabitants will get their DNA messed up every time there is a solar storm.

>>3305290
not even some weak one?

>>3305272
Unable to resolve server :(
>>3305275
You'll be able to do far more than that.

>>3305290
We can create a magnetic field.

What about Russia? Didn't Putin say that they were going to have a base on the Moon twenty years from now?
(If this is not the case, then sorry, I'm completely outdated when it comes to news about space flight and the like).

>>3305298

>Unable to resolve server :(

>>3305290
Because a thick atmosphere 2.5 times thicker with same surface pressure due to lower gravity won't be sufficient, amirite?

And we'll never have the capability of building a weak planetary magnetic field for the 47% strength sunlight Mars produces. Nah. No way.

>>3305298
>You'll be able to do far more than that.

Tell me! Tell me everything I may do!

>>3305305
Hey guys remember when USA believed that Ivan has giantass space stations on orbit causing hurricanes?

shit was so cash

>implying we need to terra-form
>mfw we should focus on being able to survive anywhere.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLMn3_SzBiU

>>3305318
your kids may disagree
Raising children in strerille enviroment is a risky thing

>>3305311
Lifespan hundreds, if not at least tens of thousands of years long

Witness the progress of humanity much as if an Ancient Egyptian was alive today. Watch as poverty, relatively scarce resources are conquered. Explore the universe. Experience photorealistic all senses virtual reality. Likely have access to suits and replacement bodies that dwarf the Crysis suit in capabilities. A good life. For you and all.

I'll be chilling in subtropical Tharsis Tholus.

>we need interplanetary colonization to spur our evolution

thats the most faggot, ill-informed statement I've ever read on /sci/.

congrats OP, you're a complete dipshit

>>3305327
>mfw I probably die at the age of 70 due to a heart attack, or a car kills me

Of course, it would be nice to live some centuries.

>>3305346

inbr Inurdaes post links to end aging project bullshit

>>3304949
help me out here see the picture

>>3305352
wrong place sorry =)

>>3305318
Fuck year! Omar thread.

>>3305346
Exercise and eat well.
And have extra respect for tonnes of metal hurtling at high speeds divided from you by nothing but a curb or a white painted line. You've become accustomed to them in your life.

>>3305351
I wasn't aware I posted my links in Brazil yet.
But here you go:
http://www.hplusmagazine.com/articles/forever-young/manhattan-beach-project-end-aging-2029

http://www.sens.org/sens-research/research-themes

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3329065877451441972#

http://www.nature.com/news/2010/101128/full/news.2010.635.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/nov/28/scientists-reverse-ageing-mice-humans

>>3305366
The thing is: Lifespans will be probably made much longer during this century, but it will expensive as shit.

I'm talking out of my ass here, though, both about the lifespans being longer and the price. Consider it a baseless opinion.

>>3305377
Nope. See pic.

And many people give me the 'Oh but there are cures for *insert disease here* and people aren't rioting over that' but the fact of the matter is, a treatment like that would not cost THAT MUCH to produce once the technique is nailed down. If they were artificially inflating the price hundreds to thousands of times and this leaked out (which it certainly would) there would be civil war worldwide and massive backlashes against the pharma corps and the others that supported them in such endeavors. Aging is a disease which affects everyone on the planet. And it can be destroyed.

>>3305308
Sauce?
Otherwise: Cool story, bro.

>mfw the first man on mars is probably going to be black

>>3305405
For which one? Both? The first is pretty easy, Mars has 0.376G's so the atmosphere is far less 'squished.'

The second one, how can I give you a source for shit that hasn't been conceived yet? I know we've created artificial magnetic fields that just stand alone, and I'm quite sure we will have the technology and power to just scale it up.

>>3305391
Well, I don't know much about economy either, but that seems a pretty logical explanation.
I'll take your word. FOR NAO.

>>3305391
stupidest argument I've ever heard 3/10

>>3305435
Voice your displeasure by knocking out my argument piece by piece.

>>3305391

>You think you know better than FEMA what to do with this months' Ambrosia shipment?
>It's on its way back to the people.
>Nope.

>mfw Molecular Assemblers terraform Mars

>>3305421
>same surface pressure due to lower gravity
mfw Mars has less then 1% surface pressure compared to Earth
Solar wind blowing off the upper atmosphere layers constantly => artificial magnetosphere prereq to terraform
ICP, i choose you!

>>3305559

>Solar wind blowing off the upper atmosphere layers constantly => artificial magnetosphere prereq to terraform

Robert Zubrin has already stated that it would take millions of years for the solar wind to blow the atmosphere away.

http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/4851d85e0791b

>>3305559
What do you think terraforming means? *EARTH*forming.

We create/release Mars' trapped atmosphere and begin conversion to oxygen/nitrogen. In Martian summertime it appears there is some partial melting already of the ice, and this only increases if we raise the surface pressure.

I propose we have a large orbiting satellite with a microwave transmitter tuned to the resonant frequency of dry ice, pointing it at key points to cause an outgassing of CO2. This would require a lot of power so I'm going to leave that be until we have technology that can construct large lightweight solar panels from asteroids autonomously.

>>3305585
do you have pic. of this cat rolling dough?

>>3305585
Thank you, good sir!

>>3305602

To Inurdaes who can't open links from mIRC.

>>3305625

>>3305618
ah thanks

>>3304949

Look as far as I'm concerned until find a way to travel at beyond the speed of light, and find a way to "counter" time dilation, manned missions to anywhere are pretty useless. We don't have any semi habitable places anywhere near us.

>2031
>still not on mars
i seriously hope you guys don't do this.

>>3305634
Except, y'know, Mars.
It is semi-habitable. What, would you like Venus instead? Or how about Mercury. Or if searing heat isn't your thing, what about the moons of Jupiter? Oooh, radiation everywhere. Any oceans are likely hundreds of kilometers deep. Titan? It has lakes of fucking ethane.

>>3305635
>2031
/sci/ meetup on Olympus Mons

>>3305160

The Mars trilogy are some of my favorite books. I love science-heavy sci-fi, and these books are particularly inspiring.

Seriously people, read these books.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_trilogy

>>3305656
It will be done.

>>3305658
I really do love the books.

while we are at this colonizing thingy
what do you think about those people buying land on Moon and Mars. And people buying whole stars. Isn't it a bit silly?

>>3305730

They say it's a great time to buy real estate.

Colonizing dead planets is like ejaculating on rocks, it's not going to achieve anything.

>>3305781
Unless you give that rock a small bucket biosphere, then mould everywhere

We are very sophisticated mould.

>>3305781

Are you serious? Are you really this thick? Terraforming turns the planet into something habitable, thus creating another whole planet on which to live.

>>3305804
> terraforming

>>3305840
One word greentext with an overused reaction response image. We'll assume you are thinking 'Oh what a fairy tale blah blah fucking communists' or something.

>>3305840

You really have no clue how incredibly easy it would be to make mars habitable, do you?

>>3305856

How many trillions of dollars would it cost?

>>3305879
How many fucks aren't given due to the very technology that would make it possible would make it cost <100 billion

>>3305804
>>3305856
Should we really? Do we deserve to ruin another planet? Do you believe we will ever leave this solar system?

>>3305892

>Do we deserve to ruin another planet?

Have some patriotism for the human race, son.

>>3305897
Ya sorry i really don't, I think we had a good run, its been fun but i don't have much faith in us even living on another rock. Unless we drastically change that is.

>>3305892
>bring back from death
>ruin

You DO realize that we can use Mars to NOT FUCK UP the biosphere like we did here or turn it to forge world alla WH40K and make earth clean

>>3305888

>100billion

Hahahaha are you serious?

you fucking kids just think that its easy to go to another planet with enough supplies to terraform, and then on top of that you dont even consider any other factors like how the differences in gravitational field would impede human growth and cause joint and circulation issues, or how the increase in solar radiation would cause god only knows what to your body, or the change in air pressure fucking with your body or how fucking long it would take or any other of the 800 trillion things (that we know of) that would fuck over any kind of long term expedition to another planet

but no, dont think about that, just throw the old "SCIENCE WILL MAKE IT POSSIBLE! PEOPLE ONCE THOUGHT FLIGHT WAS A FEVERED DREAM" at it without actually thinking about it and continue to vent your misdirected anger into an anonymous imageboard

the fucking atmosphere isnt even beginning to scratch the surface of the tip of the iceberg of the issue of terraforming an entire planet, maybe if you faggts had more than a year of introductory science under your belts you'd know that

>>3305926
Yes. I am.

Autonomous asteroid-chewing self-reproducing factories. without something like that, it WOULD cost trilions upon trillions of dollars.

>>3305892
We should not ruin another planet, this is the perfect way for a species to survive. We learn how to do stuff but in the process fuck up our planet, move to another one and don't fuck up that one because we know how to do shit now.

>>3305932
>Humans will never go faster than 80mph

>>3305940
>trilions upon trillions of dollars
google US military spending
now give it 30 years
see where I'm going?
If humans werent fuck we COULD afford it

>>3305948
>Implying they go now.
It´s the machines going that fast. Lrn 2 relativity.

>>3305948

did you actually read the whole thing or are you just very dumb

>>3305932

Dude we just go and come back shortly after, like when we went to the moon, it would make a beautiful page in human history. We all know that everyone wanting to terraform mars are just popscience fans without actual scientific insight, but we have to go there at all costs

>>3305932

Fucking this. The cost of transporting enough water to support a substantial human civilization (not just a little scientific research colony) would have to be in the thousands of trillions USD range.

and by the way the only reason you hear so much hubbub about how "terraforming is possible! look at how little it would cost and how easy it is" is only ever printed in pop-science magazines in websites for faggots your average /sci/ browser, usually as a way to plug NASA so they can keep their government funding, since most of what they do doesnt profit the world at all

>>3305983

>water
>to Mars
>transporting water
>to Mars
>water
>Mars

Gee, now you're going to say they'll need air shipments too?

>>3305985
>NASA
>well funded

>>3305985

>since most of what they do doesnt profit the world at all

Troll.

>>3305983
facepalm.jpg

>>3305970

>Dude we just go and come back shortly after, like when we went to the moon, it would make a beautiful page in human history.

So it would mean absolutely nothing?

What kind of sick fuck believes having an idea and working towards it is equivalent to being lolololololololpopscibullshit lol u carl sagan fan bruh lololol

>>3305993

Exactly how much water do you think is on Mars?

>>3305892

What ruin? Do you seriously value lifeless rock more than humans? It is an incredibly fucked up view to care more for lifeless rocks than life. You should see a psychologist.

>>3306040

I literally just heard that Mars is 60% water by weight.

>>3306040
more than enough.

Do you really believe we would bring up all 7 (probably by the time we are there 10+) billion of us up there and have a big ol' picnic?
The population of Mars would be scarce and important, they would be what would continue humanity.
The would leave the rest of us behind.

>>3306039

I dont see your point. going to mars means nothing to you?, wouldnt you take pride in the fact we were able to visit another goddamn planet?

Another planet

dude

a planet

thats awesome

>>3306050

Earths is about 3%

>>3306075

Yeah, I was derpin'. I must have misheard.

There are currently two problems with living on Mars:
1. Too cold.
2. Too low atmospheric pressure.

These can both be solved at the same time with greenhouse gasses. It is very easy to make greenhouse gasses. This should be incredibly easy.

Once we are at that point, adding plant life to create oxygen is easy mode.

>>3306215
What about the magnetic field?

How are man supposed to create one strong enough to shield us from the deadly radiation?

>>3306241

>>3306064

You really think the poor of the world would be okay with this?

Fuck no, they'd all revolt and murder the aristocracy world wide and we would all die together. The Earth becoming uninhabitable and having to terraform Mars is way too big of a deal for the poor and working class to not find out, you really think they'll keep on being small cogs so the people who took advantage of them their whole lives will get to live on in some fancy Mars mansion while they die out from starvation? I don't think so. Either half a billion go or no one does. It's way too big of a project to just take a few rich assholes and the experts they need to keep them alive.

>>3306241
Giant enclosures or mines. Initially.

>lol how can I build a house on Mars?
you don't you find a fucking lava tube and crawl in.

See, I always want to contribute to these threads, but I always end up getting there too late and really just repeatedly say

"Everything Inurdaes and CCM said."

manned mission to mars, no

consciousness transfer, yes

Also, CCM: I'm in ur IRC, chattin up ur dudes.

Dunno why it didn't take for Inurdaes.

>>3306400
Inurdaes is drawing /sci/ meetup on Mars by now
no joking

>>3306452

I was in that thread too.

Why is everyone bawwing so much about NASA? They're carrying out research when companies like Bigelow Aerospace and SpaceX get shit done. Note how NASA has gone back on almost all of it's promises to do X in Y years, but SpaceX has (almost) always made good on it's promises. They've now promised to make it to Mars in 10 (best case) to 15/20 (absolute worse case, as in total meltdown of everything).

As cliche/sinister as it sounds: study hard, become useful to society. The planet will be waiting for you when you're done.