/sci/ - Science & Math

wait, gorrilas can care for kittens?

I call bullshit.
It will be like that horse that can apparently count, that was just doing it based on subtle instructions from its owner tekwin witoch style.

>>3278456

Supposedly - it treated the kitten as if it were a child.

I'm crying a little

>>3278456

slowpoke.jpg

I remember seeing documentaries about gorillas taking care of cats several years ago.

Strangely enough, they only take care of cats that have no tails, because if it has a tail they don't think of it in the same way.

>>3278462

so you dont thinkt eh woman was actually talking to the gorrila

>>3278470

*hug*

>>3278477
no, i dont believe the gorilla can into sign language.

>>3278482
>>3278470

>>3278441
Yes, gorilla's can speak sign language...durr.
This is fucking very very very very old news.

They can't really speak anything too complicated though. Even the smartest adult gorilla is not much smarter then a 5 year old.

Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape_language

"It is now generally accepted that Apes can learn to sign and are able to communicate with humans. However, it is disputed as to whether they can form syntax to manipulate such signs."

fuck you its real

>>3278462
Clever Hans was indeed conditioned; at least, that's the consensus.

But he was a horse, for christsakes. We're talking primates here. They're much more intelligent.

>>3278516
Really? Give me ONE example of a primate proven to be as intelligent as humans.

>>3278497
>Even the smartest adult gorilla is not much smarter then a 5 year old.

In a room full of human scientists studying a signing gorilla, the gorilla is the bilingual one.

>>3278520
Humans *are* primates, dumbfuck. Also, more intelligent than a horse does not have to mean as intelligent as a human. You certainly aren't.

>>3278521
the scientists also know sign language you dipshit.

>>3278531
1. Human communications.
2. Gorilla communications.

The gorilla has both. The scientists do not.

Please stop being so stupid.

Holy shit, evolution
>RELIGION PROVED WRONG
No, seriously. That's amazing that they can possess linguistic ability whatsoever.

Hey there trollbait.

>>3278529
Thanks. >>3278520, he's right, you know. I don't know why you mentioned the fact that no non-human primates (let's assume you meant that) are as intelligent as humans, since it has nothing to do with the relative intelligence of horses and primates.

>>3278539
was in response to >>3278529
obviously.

>>3278545
Correcting stupid arguments isn't trolling.

>>3278548
No, presenting intentional logical fallacies is trolling.

>>3278551
The intentional logical fallacy was in >>3278520

>>3278538
>religion proved wrong

Religion has been proved wrong since fucking forever. 2000+ years at least.

I AM FUCKING AMAZED THAT MANY OF YALL HAVE NOT HEARD OF THESE GORILLAZ/APES/ECT.

DO YALL LIVE UNDER A FUCKING ROCK? THIS SHIT IS NOT NEW. HAS BEEN HAPPENING SINCE AT LEAST THE FUCKING 1970's!

>>3278565
Religion has never been proved wrong. If it had been, then there would be no religious people left.

>>3278520
>Implying gorillas aren't as smart as niggers

>Could the gorilla really communicate?
>Or was each communication a conditioned response to the handler's motions.

The real question is: Isn't communication a conditioned response by definition?

>>3278441
Amazing !
We're all primates.

>>3278570
Not talking whether religion has ever been proved wrong but erm... homepathy, alternative medicine?

this is so old, its the same as the time the gorilla told people how sad she was when her baby died.

>>3278570
SHUT THE FUCK UP HARRIET. RELIGION HAS BEEN PROVEN WRONG COUNTLESS FUCKING TIMES.

People are just so fucking brainwashed that they refuse to believe facts, logic, science, history or reason, and instead CHOOSE TO BELIEVE IN THE MAGIC MAN IN THE SKY, cause it makes them feel better.

>>3278585
No, you're just evangelizing your own religion, which requires you to believe that all others are wrong.

Some guy did a test with gorillas to see if they could use currency. He handed them a piece of silvery metal and once they grabbed it he offered them a treat. After a few weeks/months, the gorillas understood that the money was basically being used to "buy" the treats.

The scientist (or economist maybe?) offered different treats at different "prices". ie: 3 cubes of jelly for one coin etc.

The price level was changed, by making one coin worth only 2 cubes, the gorillas responded to this by buying less. The gorillas had shown examples of economic markets.

One of the gorillas, instead of giving the money to the scientist gave it to another female gorilla. She accepted it and they began to have sex right there and then.

Prostitution really is the oldest profession.

>>3278576
Spot on.

Now the difficult part : a gorilla expressing sadness ( a notion, an abstract) and the concept of "crying".. that's weird

>>3278570
Faith can't be disproven but out of body experiences and near death experiences have both been disproven. You can't disprove stupid people believing in invisible super beings that don't interact with reality.

The important thing is, things attributed to religion and God that could scientifically be disproven with science or that could be replicated, have been.

The fact that religious people don't care about this, just goes to show you something about them, and most people who believe in superstitions.

>>3278586
You have never seen a sad or happy animal?

Sadness and happiness are pretty basic, and exist in most animals. They definitley exists in all primates.

>>3278595
Yeah, because no one ever has out of body experiences or near death experiences. They're all just lying.

Oh wait, you meant the *interpretation* of those experiences? Well then, they haven't been disproven, then. Showing that there is material stuff happening does not disprove that spiritual stuff is happening.

The fact that you ignore this just goes to show how blinded you are by your religion.

>>3278590
>>3278600
I wonder what Gorillas conceptualize death by. Do they just accept death as a part of being alive or are they scared of it or have any idea of what it means?

>>3278609

Here's your answer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJkWS4t4l0k

...

Trollface.jpg

>>3278613
Is it sad I can probably predict tests like this having already been done?

>>3278590
WOW, I FUCKING REMEMBER SEEING THAT ON THE NEWS (OR SOMESHIT). I was laughing my ass off. Then after the funniness, it actually started to make perfect sense to me.

Also, I remember someother study done, that actually observed primates in a turf war (killing eachother over land).

It is interesting that many "human" traits are actually primate "traits" in general.

>>3278631

It's from the Epilogue of Super Freakonomics.

>>3278631
Now to integrate them all into our society and use them for manual labor. Just teach them all what money means and we'll be all set.

>>3278600
*being* sad and directly, conscientiously *expressing* sadness to another being are 2 different things.

>>3278609
They either don't understand dead or accept just it (when old). It is the fucking circle of life after all.

Humans are the only species that have a problem with dying (when old). Humans are the only species that makes up bullshit fairytales to try and make themselves feel better about death.

>>3278441
hey OP, great picture.
as you were.

>>3278672

I'm glad you enjoy it.

>>3278665
There are of course some signs that some Neanderthals may have believed or conceptualized some sort of afterlife, which would show a fear of death. That or they really respected the dead for some reason, throwing neat artifacts and flowers on the bodies.

>>3278665

Elephant graveyards.

youcantexplainthat.jpg

Of course it can communicate.
All animals communicate.
Your cat moving his tail and ears? That's a form a communication.
FFS

>>3278688
I think people in this thread just missed all the old Gorilla documentaries so are surprised that Gorillas can express such complicated thoughts.

>>3278688

I even took the time to learn my cat's language some. It's not that hard, as their language is very simple compared to human language. Most people are just too lazy and/or egotistical to believe in and learn animal language.

>>3278684
is an urban myth.

however
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_intelligence#Death_ritual
they do a lot of crazy things, and people thinking animals don't have all kinds of interesting emotions are utterly uninformed.

>>3278586
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/08/090824141045.htm

Of course it could communicate, hense sign-language. The only thing though is that I think they taught the gorilla emotions not by how they feel but events involving it. Therefore kitty dies>associates death with the emotion "sad">communication of being "sad."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3818833.stm

Elephants are known to cover dead people with branches

>>3278715
Ok, so the elephants may feel sad when others die. That really isn't fucking suprising, most animals feel "sadness", "grief" and "loss".

This isn't the same thing as fearing death though. Sadness, grief and loss, are the natural emotional response to death or loss.

Fear of death (when old) is not a natural response.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKwSDJ45HoI

>>3278715
>>3278722

A lot of info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_intelligence

bump because animal intelligence is cool

I love how people are saying "it's just conditioning" when human behaviour is also just conditioning, only with a hell of a lot more variables.

>>3278953

Egos gonna ego.

>>3278710

Has anyone else here learned any of their pets' languages?

>>3279004
when my dog jumps and barks a lot it means she wants a treat.

imsuchagenius.jpg

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bird+court
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=crow+funeral

These are age old tales. I thought they were famous but they don't have wikipages nor even a mention on the crow page

>>3279019

I never said it was hard. In fact, I said it was easy.

My fluency in cat far exceeds the equivalent of "I want a treat", though.