/sci/ - Science & Math

Soon...

If these chips are commercialized, governments will have to subsidize or protect through patents/copyright laws the knowledge stored in these chips by specialists. Otherwise, with uninhibited copying, specialists who do the initial storing of information would have no incentive to work or improve their skills in their field.

Then without specialists to charge the chips you'd have no chips.

youwouldntstealacar.jpg

brb thinking up a way to pirate these things

sounds awesome OP, but it will take many years for it to be perfected i think.

>>3265589
Of course there'd be a drive to improve skills in the field beyond what is commercially available. Just because everyone can do calculus in their sleep doesn't mean that you should stop trying to prove the Riemann hypothesis or anything. Just because everybody now knows all currently known animals doesn't mean you shouldn't look for more.

It's the fucking Quest for Knowledge. When everyone is equally enlightened, there will be a drive for more.

And imagine: Everyone who gets plugged in will no longer be stupid. Imagine if logic was made freely available and given tax incentives to use.

Imagine if the entire populace of the world knew and followed the rules of logic in their every day lives.

Isn't that worth spending billions of dollars for?

>porn stars sell memory chips
>suddenly everyone has the most amazing sex ever
>a new era of peace as everyone is too busy buying new porn chips to kill anyone else

I can't wait.

>>3265615
Imagine if everyone fell into the same thinking patterns as a result of shared memory chips. Imagine how creative the world would be.

>>3265615

This. A species unified by shared intellect. Minds working together to push forward science, mathematics, art, culture.

It would be a new renaissance. All that intelligence put forward to solve global problems, and then that knowledge being saved and installed into new generations. Schools would no longer need to exist, just update centers.

I'm dreaming of a futuristic sci-fi ultra sexy utopia of highly intelligent humans that can learn to fucking get along again, aren't I.

>>3265615
It IS worth spending billions of dollars for. That's why it'd be subsidized, because without government support, there would be no competition to drive improvement. You can't have progress without progressive rewards, and if everyone can just copy your skills without limit, then there would be no monetary incentive for you to improve because the moment you do, people will start loading up their chips with your knowledge for free, and then, in a free, unsubsidized market, all the employment opportunities you would have had due to your enhanced skills will only be taken by others who copied your skills. And if specialists don't have incentive to improve, there would be nothing to load up the chips with, essentially making them useless.

So the government would have to subsidize the specialist market; they would have to provide compensation in the form of a large sum of money to specialists; or they would have to enact anti-piracy laws against uninhibited copying of specialist knowledge.

Of course you'd have some people who, even without government support, would personally try and improve their skills for the greater benefit of humanity. But this would be inefficient, because of the fact that the process of improving their skills personally does not bring them any economic benefits. They would need other jobs, etc., to support themselves financially, and improvement would become more of a hobby than a full-time pursuit.

instead of having to buy a chip to use, wouldn't it be better if you just have a uplink to some network in your brain and the network contains all the knowledge humans have gathered.

OP's pic makes me cringe and want to scratch my head

>>3265581
hahaha

>>3265641
Memory isn't everything about us. We have our own personalities and presumably, the memory chips will only be saving skills and event memories, not ideas and beliefs. I doubt many people would want to plug in devout islam anyways.

And if the price for the entire world to be logical, intelligent and peaceful is a degree of creativity, well, I'll pay it.

Am I the only one to think this can't be a good thing ? Television isn't only transmitting pictures and sound, it captures your attention and too much of it at a young age destroys your ability to concentrate, and most people and even most scientists didn't think about that when it appeared.
>Flip the switch on, and the rats remember. Flip it off, and the rats forget.
>Flip it off, and the rats forget.
There's no way physically forcing the brain to work in a specific way can not be damaging. What happens with a human when it's switched off ? Suddenly you don't remember, but do you even remember that you were remembering something ? Cause if not, that's akin to some drugs' side effects, and that's pretty fucking bad.

>>3265641

>Ignoring individual experience and cellular automata chaos

We live in a chaotic system. My neighbor is my age, went to the same school as me, grew up in the same place as me but is nothing like me.

>>3265667

It's not as far fetched as it sounds. We just need to take a few small steps in that direction for the rolling snowball to start gaining momentum.

holy fucking shit.

the only thing i can say is, i'm glad to be alive in this era.

>>3265551
>Implying memories can translate to application that easily

>>3265704
yes, you are alone.

>>3265704

It's just beginning. We can't accurately predict what this will develop into in 10-20 years.

>>3265679
Government subsidies are already used just about everywhere today. This is a cause I would gladly vote for raised taxes for, every time it came on the ballot.

Scientists would become new celebrities, and heroes to the entire world, because each time they made a new discovery, everyone would know about it, everyone would understand it, everyone could discuss it and the impacts on the world.

Imagine if you made a big discovery and with a month, EVERYBODY knew that you were responsible.

For ages we have complained that science is given a backseat to television and entertainment. With this, science will BE entertainment.

no creativity and why bother learning when you can just instantly get the knowledge implanted in your head

>knowledge chips created, initially sold at extremely high price
>rich, powerful people buy a shit ton
>they dominate the lower classes with their superbrains
>they also probably buy out the original creators of the chips, so they control the distribution of knowledge

>>3265729
>rich supper smart rule the world
>im okay with this

>>3265729
>then laugh at /sci/ and the rest of the world that they can never get one

YEAH..no bad idea

>>3265729
If hackers can crack the CIA database, then hackers can get the blueprints to the memchips.

If people want something bad enough, they'll get it. And this is the Holy Grail of knowledge.

>>3265729

Has this already been made into a movie?

>>3265729

Technological development and markets don't work that way. Look at the home PC and apply the trends it followed and you will see what really happens.

>>3265719
well, enjoy your global Alzheimer's and ADD pandemy then.

>>3265727

How would creativity be eliminated?

If anything, creativity would be the spark that could make this the most amazing potential ever.

Imagine, you have the intelligence to do ANYTHING. Say you had a great idea for a new way to siphon power through geothermal. It would be YOUR CREATIVITY that gave you this idea, but the INTELLIGENCE of the memory chip that would allow you to realise its potential.

Humans supply the creativity, companies supply the knowledge.

MFW Spacetravel development improves 10,000%

>tech interfaced with brain
>interface with external tech, receive sensory input
>become the external tech
>BE the car
>BE the plane
>BE the tank

Goddamn. The future is looking bright.

>>3265765

>2011-2020
R&D
>2020-2025
Early models are released for human use. Extremely expensive and not very effective.
>2025-2030
Better models are released, still expensive but most middle class people can afford one (like a mid range car). It works alright.
>2030-2035
This new version is under $1000 and is amazingly effective. Everyone is now using it.

Every. Single. Technology. follows this trend if it's a free market. Step four has the greatest profit potential and so it is always the natural goal.

oh it's probably just some dumb brain on a chip thing they were testing, really basic stuff, they couldn't possibly
> The chip is capable of storing neural signals, basically functioning as an electronic memory, allowing rats to learn more and keep it in the devices.
>allows rats to instantly know things. It's amazing.

oh
shit

This is a terrible idea. When everyone becomes the same as far as intelligence is concerned anyone can do anything it takes all meaning from it. You choose and do. Suddenly skill and ability mean nothing, creativity becomes meaningless and so does knowledge. Diversity needs to exist for knowledge to maintain meaning. I mean this discovery is revolutionary but who will chose to do the shitty things in life when they have the option to do more with just a chip?

>>3265777

This game is the most accurate portrayal of 2027 in media, IMO (barring the necessary plot devices and dramatic tension). I can't wait to play it.

>Mass implant chips into people's heads
>Productivity skyrockets as people get accustomed to this digital knowledge
>Solar flare
>...

>mfw I saw this on /v/ then checked back at /sci/ and got confused

So yeah, when this shit hits the market, you guys better buy up as much stock as you can afford, because it's going to SKYROCKET. And then it's going to break the fucking sky and go SOLAR.

>>3265794
well, you might know everything SO FAR. but from that you can specialize in a certain field and, you know, advance that field.

this has the added effect of REMOVING what i call the "specialization closet". when a biologist is studying something and goes full speed ahead in one sector, only to run into some seemingly insurmountable problem that could easily be solved by some polymer that a very specialized polymer scientist is working on.
Cross pollination between the high specialists within fields often has incredible results. the problem is, we can only store so much, and contextualize less

>>3265794

You sound exactly like the luddites who argued against the industrial revolution putting skilled laborers out of work.

Roll with it bro, humanity strives to improve and we can only do our best to walk that path to a destination that we want.

>>3265800
>solar flare does jack shit because all the people have been working at it and arrived at a solution in three days.

6 billion materials scientists, physicists, chemists, and so on. All working on the same problems.

It's.... beautiful.

>>3265589
Fucking retard.

If you can transfer their knowledge onto chips, EVERYBODY is a specialist.
You don't seem to grasp that having skills at that point is no longer a marketable trait. Mcdonalds employees today could do that work tomorrow.

>>3265805

Might as well get rich before everyone gets intelligent.

Imagine being paid minimum wage with an IQ of 300. How fucking frustrating would that be.

>Working at gamestop
>Discussing theoretical particle physics with floor manager
>Customer comes in
>We all discuss relativity and time dilation
>All have fun
>Customer goes home
>Still make minimum wage.

MFW

>>3265810
You choose to be a fucking retard, you're born a retard, you deserve to be one. Period. World needs fucking idiots. Equality is a lie and doesn't belong in this world.

lol
>everyone getting way ahead of themselves

http://io9.com/5306489/a-drug-that-could-give-you-perfect-visual-memory

That was 3 years ago. Nothing has been heard about it since.

Calm down transhumanist fags.

>>3265819
Not everyone would do everything. Some people would do the quantum shit, some people would do materials shit, and robots would do the menial labor.

The only ignorant poor people would be those who refused to use memchips.

I just fucking hope that memchips don't require that you register with the government and have the proof of registry on your forehead or left hand. That'll freak me right the fuck out.

I'm in your reality, being the best thing to have ever happed

>>3265813
Right, 6 billion people which makes its meaning worthless.

>>3265813

...and then the alien galactic federation finally sends a diplomat to meet with us. "Against all of our expectations, you have succeeded where millions of species have failed. Congratulations Homo Sapiens."

>>3265828
>drug
>side effects
>non-reversible

I think I know why it never hit shelves.

>>3265813

Yes.

>>3265819

Do you really think menial jobs won't be automated using robots?

>>3265819
with the explosion in industry and innovation, robots would take over every minimum wage job, and nobody would mind a bit

>>3265860
7 billion people > Robots take effect, have 200 amazing scientists, engineers, chemists, etc.

Everyone else? Unemployed and worthless. Logic dictates so, people must be killed in order to preserve world, blah blah blah.

>>3265842
And then we say "Thanks dudes, by the way you're using an inefficient drive core, let me upgrade that for you. And yes, we can read your minds."

>>3265834
Greater numbers makes it greater, not lesser. Just because something is popular doesn't mean that it's worthless. Unless you're pic related.

I must remind you that:
1) This will still take years
2) This won't make people intelligent, it just makes it so that everyone has wikipedia in his head. Memory doesn't help you to be smart, only gives you knowledge.

>>3265860

Yeah I would imagine so. Scientists, scientists everywhere.

Although there would only be so many research jobs. Somewhere along the line, a job that is considered decent now would become a menial job.

The possibilities brought on by this are staggering, but it would destroy more than a few industries along the way.

Hello

>>3265875
that's a problem indeed. there will be a very rough period when everyone knows everything, but society is still catching up to the fact

>>3265883

>>3265875

What? The whole point is that technology will make us all equally capable through gene therapy and eventually direct synthetic improvement. The current system of genetic inheritance is pretty fucking far from optimal, especially for democracies.

>Come to /sci/ expecting rational debate of the paper.
>No link to the actual paper, just a pop-sci headline, and transhumanist faggotry.

Pretty much what could be expected.

>>3265884
I'm just very opposed to this. Growing up the one thing I've been the best as is understanding, learning, and remembering. I'm good at other shit, but I've stood uniquely (Well by unique within 2% of the population). This argues to put me on average with everyone and I honestly don't believe in equality. As far as intelligence is concerned. When anyone can be anything without trying life loses meaning.

>>3265893

>Expected pop-sci headline and transhuminism
>Came to /sci/ for the rational debate of a paper anyway

Contradictory statements are contradictory.

>>3265815

>>3265589
>with uninhibited copying, specialists who do the initial storing of information would have no incentive to work or improve their skills in their field.

next time read the post

>>3265891
Survival of the fittest. We're making it easier for those who are weak, not fit to survive, to live and reproduce. Their kind needs to die.

>>3265881

A single working molecular assembler, future 3D printing and advanced robotics could render the entire economy obsolete. People won't work because they have to to, they'll do it because they want to. Or they'll spend all their time in virtual reality playing the newest MMORPG, which is fine since they wouldn't be a drain on society.

>>3265893
University PR release.. Slightly better than the Jizzmodo article.
http://www.viterbi.usc.edu/news/news/2011/restoring-memory-repairing.htm

>>3265907

That is true. Then the question becomes how do we support the people that play games and don't work. Another question would be why?

Then again, if we get to a point where we have an entirely automated food system (from planting to packaging to in your fucking mouth) then we probably wouldn't need to support anyone.

>>3265898

It will just allow us to tackle greater endeavors, we have only achieved a tiny speck of our potential so far you know.

>>3265913
Also: http://iopscience.iop.org/1741-2552/8/4/046017

>>3265915

That's the thing though, those technologies would make everyone self sufficient. They wouldn't need support.

>>3265828
Look. The shit is a protein. And a fairly big one at that. Shit would cost a whole lot just to synthesize even, if it would work in humans. Then humans couldn't ingest it because guess what happens with proteins that you eat(and are not prions. So you would have to shoot that baby up in some muscles or blood(for a couple days worth of the effect at the most). Also you can't get it through the blood-brain barrier from the blood so actually you would have to inject the said protein directly into your brain. Now that sounds like a pleasant thought so you could see some pretty pictures in detail.

A neuroprosthesis on the other hand is a one time deal only. The neurosurgeon pops it in your head and from then on it's on wireless updates and energy sources. A fucking HUEG difference.

>>3265615

And thus humans became computers.

The beauty of this hurts.

>>3266198
Ugh....alright.

>>3266198
Ball's in your court now.

>nobody kills eachother anymore
>everyone is helping the world move foreward
>explore our solar system in a month
>find cure for all diseases in a year

This isn't exactly how memory works. A chip won't have the millions of dendrons connecting the memory cells to the rest of the brain. Memory is a process that takes time to physically grow, solidify and ween out unimportant associations. The connections made are specialized for every brain.

That's a little bit of the science and the main problem with this chip. However, although limiting the chip may make it possible to grow memories at a extended rate if it could somehow encourage new, coherent, thoughts to be made. In essence speed learning.

Another issue is that people will end up having instinctual responses to subjects but not have the grey matter in other brain regions to understand what's going on. Case: Learning the notes to a piano concerto but not having developed auditory or motor systems to analyze or perform the music. Or not having Einstein's unique ratio of glial cells to neurons in the left inferior parietal area responsible for synthesizing information with other brain areas.

What if the chips were only sold to those who passed certain tests to shw they had innate skill and intelligence. The theory of passing on the ability to actually USE knowledge seems less likely than passing on mere knowledge.

Example: Chip has every math formula, rule, and postulate. Chip does not make person understand how to use all of the above, instead allowing the person to access it should their mind be capable.

>>3265551
>Gentlemen, we have entered the age of easily transferable knowledge.

This is first step, but still pretty far from transferable knowledge. Presently they can copy the patterns, but don't understand the code.

>>3266244
Wouldn't the next logical step be developing methods to ake people capable of understanding implanted memories?

>>3266244
>Chip has every math formula, rule, and postulate

Wikipedia does that already.

> crazy muslim wants to blow something up
> knows how to build a nuke out of flour and milk

you plebeians are deluded if you think you'll ever get your pig dirty fingers on technology like this

So, how long before I can hook my brain up to my computer with an USB cable?

I mean, this kinda implies that it's possible.

>>3266360
Welcome to the modern era. Was you trip from the ancient world a pleasant one?

Would you mind telling us all how you have traveled so far into the future? Also, word to the wise, we don't use bronze much here anymore, and the world is a sphere.

>>3266360
Yeah, and 50 years ago people claimed that the smallest computer that would ever be invented would cost half a million dollars and be so huge that it would only fit in your garage.

>Transhumanism is a wet dream, they said.

Fuck you, you managed to kill my optimism, but the future come faster than excepted.

I change my "it will almost surely not happen in my lifetime" to "OH PUTAIN DE MERDE OH PUTAIN OH PUTAIN".

Wow. The reality of this just hit me.

ONE STEP CLOSER TO MY EVE ONLINE-LIKE DREAM.

>>3265581
I fucking lol'd at this.

>>3265880
Most intelligent post in this entire thread.

>everyone calm the fuck down.

Perhaps you would only need to access the knowledge while using it. So for example, a person of any age could get into a car, plug themselves in, and drive perfectly with no prior training. Same with anything else.

Wonder what would happen if every single job could be done by anybody?

Some chips will be free; only the capitalist bastards will put adds in them; The most advanced form of publicity. Thrust me, this kind of thing will just make you more like a lazy consumer slug of a human being. I don't want that in my head.

>>3266408
Shit would go DOWN, SON!

>>3266409
>Thrust me
Gladly.

I genuinely think, slowly but surely, most of population would end up homosexual in the long run.

>>3266409
Not until you download "MotivationPlus: The ideal blend of creativity, esteem and drive needed to give you the life you see in the movies!"

>>3266408
I have this surreal mental image of a five year old on a raised seat driving themselves and their parents somewhere while giggling.

>>3266417
Can I get a fuck yeah? To fly to a foreign country, you just wait for a plane to land, every person on board is replaced by random passengers who then fly wherever they like. Perhaps operating air traffic control form terminals in the waiting area.

Yes, I have a nerd boner.

>>3266440
>mfw terrorists would have the time of their life.

i'm just waiting for the "social" memories, maybe then i can talk to people

>>3266448
....

Herp.

Wait, since when does

information Available to your brain == information understood by your brain

>>3266456
> meanwhile, inside the USA's new augmented intelligence agency...

>>3266456
Since never.

Which just means that smart people will have a blast while retards will still work at McDonald's.

I can't wait.

>>3266464
The plan: to make Mcdonald's employees slightly more efficient at their job.

The result: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssh71hePR8Q

>>3266468
Hahaha, oh God. Good one.

Anyway, anyone else see the possibilities in this? Suddenly, everyone can achieve the knowledge on how to pick up girls and actually use it in real life.

Um.....
firstly... pretty novel idea, just out of interest what did the rats learn? (Hopefully something meaningful?)...

...Second, would one persons thought signals translate directly to the next? (Would've thought we were a bit more individual, guess not )

...
Thirdly, and probably the biggest concern, If we still haven't even got half-secure Computers , would you really want to be the target yourself?

>>3266492
> mfw contemplating the trolls of the future

>>3266492
"We're sorry sir, but it appears that the Rick Astley song you can hear is effectively an incurable form of tinnitus..."

>>3265551
How long will it be before this becomes available?

Lol people, this "cyborg interface" thing has been up since perhaps 1970' if not earlier and it was able to apply it on rats and some human emotions after 40 years of progress it got to more advanced version in 2010 which was able to apply it on rats.

Tremendous progress suggests that in 2387 we will be able to apply this unique technology again to rats only. (obviously exaggerating but got the idea)

And yes year 2000 will, ehm... already was full of flying cars, moon cities and mars colonies. Yes we've heard it before... Instead we are bailing out our dear bankers and feeding our endless military contractors.

But a good sci-fi though a decent lack of innovation.

False memories, Mind viruses, etc...?
Shit, people are unreliable enough as we are
=P

Custom universe simulation firmware please

The first seed for GLaDOS has been laid.

>>3266532
>>3266532
that was fucking hectic to read

>>3266532
>>3266532
I read that 7 times and i still don't know what the fuck is going on

>>3266532
I get your point, I think, but that post was worded like somebody of the black persuasion.

Just imagine the advertisement opportunities if we instead of a memory chip insert receiver and set it on automatic update with continuous advertisement transmission so that even when people are sleeping, eating, working or having sex they will see and hear newest advertisements. Also make such system to be compulsory so that people are always properly informed about potential threats by breaking news.

Wouldn't it be great!

>>3266616

i thought it was worded more like a frenchman.

>>3266629

we know where that leads..

>>3266630
Black people live in France as well, unfortunately.

>>3266616
Yes it is not the most fortunate formulation. Mainly I meant that there were so many futuristic promises said and "assured" that in 20 years it will be as common as a spoon but none of it ever turned out to be affordable even by whole countries. As an example there is the 1970' period when moon cities and Mars colonies sounded to be just within the reach.
Yet it's 2011 and we can hardly get back to Moon and Mars colony, well Mars mini-station is a matter of slight sci-fi. (it is achievable but no one expects it to happen in 2 years)

Very similar story is with this mind reading. somewhere in the 1970' or 1950' (sorry don't remember when exactly was it) in US there was a program for stimulation of emotions via electrodes. But since then got a very shallow progress. We can generate simple signal (like eye photo-receptors or perhaps some other sensing neurons also primitive muscle manipulation...). But as in terms of advanced signals like thought we still can only estimate what center is active. We can say whether a person is happy or not but we can't even read a simple thought (not even simple mind algebra operations). There were some experiments with several hundreds or may be thousands of neurons but that's not a proper brain - not even a mouse brain.

So it is impossible to achieve human memory implant level of advancement in the next 40 years. There are other methods that are more efficient and will do the same job.

>>3266670
>assured that in 20 years it will be as common as a spoon
>as common as a spoon

Holy shit, oh man i'm so using that from now on.

>>see thread about this on /v/
>>not on /sci/

I never asked for this.

Religious troll threads have more power than the moderators. Everybody's fighting for furfaggotry, and CP.

>YOU'LL NEVER BAN THEM

I'll never stop reporting.

>Want to troll somebody
>Swap out their work skills with 500hrs of gay porn
>They plug in
>TFW

>>3266697
THIS IS GOLD
I WANNA TROLL THE FUTURE

>>3266701
Or better still go Jigsaw on their ass.
>One of these memory chips has the door code on it.
>The other 99 each have an episode of Jersey Shore.
>Choose wisely

>>3266708
But I wouldn't be too cruel I would leave a gun with a bullet in it.

>>3266697
But that wouldn't work on engineers.

>>3266712
Lol of course not, that IS their work files.

>>3266697
>Take out chips
>Do not remember what it was you saw

Trolls are amazingly less effective in the future.

>>3266749
But isn't it possible to somehow copy that knowledge from the chip onto your own brain? It wouldn't be very handy to have to plug a chip in just to know that 2+2=4.

I'm sure with these you'd be able to remember the general idea of what happened.

>>3266830
If you actually read the article, you would know thats not the case. The neurons storing the information(or in this case the simulated neurons provided via the chip) are removed when its turned off, and the memory along with it.

You would know something happened, and that you knew something you now don't, but you would have no idea what that was.

I would like to point out, however, that you would only need to carry around a flash drive connected to that chip to have almost the entire wikipedia content stored on this expandable memory, to be called at any time.
And maybe with wifi access, who knows.

It certainly would not be like removable storage at any rate.

>>3266859
By that I mean you wouldn't physically remove the chip from your head and insert a new one when you wanted to change memory.

The chip would be permanent, and you would just load new data/delete old data from it like a hdd.

Ladies and gentlemen - we have entered an Era of Art. Science is just transferable knowledge that can be applied with the execution of creativity.

bump

the singularity is upon us!

>>3267237
They cannot stop us. They cannot stop the future.

It has been said before, but I feel the need to say it again in hopes of outweighing all the retards that say otherwise.

Knowledge != intelligence. The fact that everyone has access to wikipedia doesn't make everyone a genius. Certainly there are a lot of benefits to giving everyone this knowledge, but a lot of it will just go over people's heads.

Of course, we could add a powerful CPU to the memory, allowing for better computation. This might aid in intelligence, and also be super-awesome.

>>3267616
It would be nice to even have formulaes for a lot of stuff like statistics accessible in my brain. Or knowledge about what plants I can eat when I'm in the wilderness.

>>3265716

The thing is they aren't memories, they are simulated neuron patters. I won't get the memories of a some math genius doing math, I'll get a copy of his nerual activity firing through my brain when I try to do math. We may very well be downloading information straight into our heads in the not too distant future.

Combined with the rapid integration of prostheses into the nervous system Shirow Masamune may well be heralded as a prophet.

>>3265794

I think you're missing something from the equation, for one different people we chose different things, and for two having ability to do something won't make you do it like everyone else. You'll probably find some people will excel much more than others with same patterns firing for a particular skill. This is simply increasing the potentiality of each individual human being 10 fold

>>3265880

Except this is the beginning and really saying it increases memory is a bad description of how it actually works. Think of neurons firing as a bit of code. Now the firing of neurons in a particular way might indicate numerous things...... if you can take a look at what someones brain looks like when he's doing particle physics and copy that code into another person mind we can safely assume that persons ability to comprehend physics should increase, that person would still have to make the necessary associations in order to learn physics, which may be drastically shortened depending on how crazy the technology actually ends up being.

Basically you start knowing this is taking off when instead of a particular implant that has a specific function, you get an implant which allows you to download this information, at your leisure.

This is against christianistic doctrine, of the will and soul. Be sure creationist will be opposing this.

>>3266388

"You are about to become what all men should fear..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QBZqE6Ltws

"... So unbound that not even Death Itself can claim you."

>kill somebody
>take your chip out
>put into someone else
>they remember killing someone
>turn themselves in
>you don't remember a thing about it

The law can't even keep up with MP3's, Games and Movies. How are they expected to keep up with this?

>>3266870

I agree with this, fingers crossed

>>3267843

By removing the chip from a person and finding out that they no longer remember killing a dude.

I expect by the time we can create memory chips, we can also read them. Including access logs.

Back in my day, we had to learn things the hard way; by lookin' at em a lot and practicin'. You kids today with your memory looms and your study machines got it easy.

>>3267843

I don't think it works like that, I don't think we're deleting/cutting and pasting memories. We are expanding the capacity for memory.

>>3267855

If the murderer stores it on a chip, then he won't remember it either once it's removed. It's not going to be like minority report where you get a HD video of the murder.

>>3267872

If a memory also includes what you thought at the time, which it would, I can see finding out who the actual murderer was from the...

Hold the phone. this was an episode of Voyager. I remember now, Tom Paris got framed for murder.

well if it would happen, if /sci/ is any indication all you faggots would do is download hearsay about some "experts" "objective" opinion, and then go on to circlejerk about it with each other with comments that no one will read like
WOW TEH FUTUR IS NOW I CAN STILL BE A LAZY FAT SACK OF SHIT BUT HAVE PORN DOWLOADED INTO MAH BRAIN

>>3265881
While creating new more effective and efficient ones.

>>3267898

Buttfrut for no reason

>>3265810
*stands up*
*clap*
*clap*
*clap*
*clap*
*clap*

>>3265615
>Imagine if the entire populace of the world knew and followed the rules of logic in their every day lives.
>mfw
MULTIORGASMS

Never gonna happen, though :/

this is bullshit , who'll clean the fucking toilets? there must be diversity , but anyway , big guys would never let such a dream come true anyway

>>3266532

Actually man as technology advances the predictions become more accurate. And as things are there is no use for a flying car. We would have to start building much taller buildings much more frequently and then you would actually have a need. The reason we don't have flying cars is because we don't need them.

>>3267974

toilets will clean themselves... you sure you at the right board?

>>3265752

Was thinking the same thing in regards to space

>>3267974
>big guys would never let such a dream come true anyway
What you mean like the internet? That thing that world governments and corporations are having a hard time suppressing.

I'll just leave this here:
>>3267562

>>3265641
You were saying?

Why should we donate money to this when we can donate money to cancer research and over populate the planet??

>>3265667
If we all reacted the same way, we'd be predictable, and there's always more than one way to view a situation. What's true for the group is also true for the individual. It's simple: overspecialize, and you breed in weakness. It's slow death.

As cool as this is, I'm also a bit sad. By the time this technology is perfected and mass-produced, I'll be around 40. And by the time this new trans-humanist future you guys are predicting happens, I might be too old to enjoy it.

>Read the article
>"As someone who has had family affected by Alzheimer"
It's showing.

Didn't some guy just write a book about how humans and machines/computer will be integrated within 40 years? I think we just found the key.

>>3268085
Don't be pessimistic. We could be the first generation to live for ever. Or until were 500.

>>3268092
The Singularity is Near by Raymond Kurzweil.

>>3266409
Reminds me of this book called "Feed". Something similar happened to what you described in your post

>>3268093
Immortal life on earth with the devil? Not as long I and the Savior Jesus Christ of Nazareth has something to say. He will be with me against this demonic left-wing propaganda that is leading us astray from the rapture. You are all delusional and brainwashed by hitler-stalinists and darwinist schemers. There is no science, there is no imortality than the one found trough GOD and the Holy spirit. ONLY GOD CAN SAVE YOU. AMEN

**I WILL PRAY FOR YOU SINNERS**

**STOP THE SCAIENCE-PROPAGANDA*

>>3268093
>Don't be pessimistic. We could be the first generation to live for ever. Or until were 500.
This is not going to happen within our lifetime, or the next generation's lifetime.

>>3268118
Jesus. What are you doing down here? It's long past your bedtime.

>>3268129
Many people would have said that about extended memory chips for the brain before now.

I can see /g/ now

"Lol using a 1tb neurochip? Why dont you upgrade to a 2tb neurochip, fucking poorfag"

>>3268139
That's not even close to what they've actually accomplished. Read the article (the original publication I mean). The only thing they've done is simulate a monosynaptic pathway.

someone will find a way to make these things crash, incapacitating everyone with a chip.

>>3268143
>>3268143

If it's longterm memory, it will be in terms of >exobytes.

>>3268143

>2011
>only 2 tb

georgecostanza.jpg

>>3268118

Feel free to die. Nobody will stop you.

You will of course be neccesarily removing yourself and people who believe like you do from society by doing so however, which really can only help immortalists in the long run.

>>3268161
2.5 petabytes supposedly.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=what-is-the-memory-capacity

>>3268085

If you are alive when this gets into full swing you're not too old. The only thing you would have to fear is someone fucking up the surgical procedures

>>3268157

EMP

>>3268129
you may be right, but the sad thing is I think the technology would be available...
We just won't get to use it..

>this article

1. How do the rats remember? Only thing I know is that memory is a certain sequence of neurons firing, how would you be able to reproduce that
2. A rat might be a mammal, but a rat's brain an a human's brain are... well, you know.
3. How would this not get used by gouvernments and gouvernments alone? It's far too dangerous
4. No MRI/X-Rays anymore?
5. How and where do you install the chip


On a sidenote, I find transhumanism-fanboys incredibly annoying.
>pop-science magazin writes something vague
>We are nearly there
>immortality is in reach
>etc.

>>3268264
>LOL HEBBIAN LEARNING LOOK IT UP SUMMER FRIEND

hory shit my brain is augmented

>>3268204
>>3268204

Nice find. How about all knowledge on earth.
How much do we need then?

>Need to know math? Buy a math memory chip

that is not how these things work

but /sci/ has never let little things like "facts" and "rational thinking" get in the way of their sci fi fantasies

You guys fail to realize that these chips only improve your memory. So sure you could have encyclopedic knowledge but you will never have an understanding of that information

>>3268292
"The previous best estimate came from researchers at the University of
California, Berkeley, who totaled the globe's information production
at 5 exabytes in 2003. One of the sponsors of that report, data-
storage company EMC Corp., commissioned IDC's new look. "

http://groups.google.com/group/data-management---watson/browse_thread/thread/cbaf0769a0547855

Quick google got me that. 5 exabytes as of 2003, must be at least 10 by now I should think.

>>3268329

Sure you will, you'll just have to spend a lot of time sitting there and thinking through it.

Which will be made much easier by being able to call it up at will and establish causal links.

>>3268238

Yea, if Ray Kurzweild is trying to hold out for the approach of this future, most people on here should have reasonable prospects at making it. I know there is work to be done, but really interfacing the technology with the brain is the most difficult part, from there its all about parsing apart the code so we can know that this particular configuration of neuron firing improves mathematical ability, this part improves abstraction, this part improves recall and so on and so forth and then copy it. If we've got the device(which it seems we have) all we need are the programs and everyone of us come preloaded with various degrees of all of them.

What's even crazier, is we might be able to come up with configurations that code for mental abilities we've never even suspected were possible. Natural but unused abilities like echo-location can be understood in terms of brain function and we might drastically improve the ability of the blind successfully use echo location to navigate their surrounding. The implications truly are astounding.

>>3265551

Too bad I'll be fucking 150 before I can even afford one brain chip

Suddenly you don't need schools anymore
teachers and trainers lose their work

cause everyone is having the chips...
(if affordable

What's 12*12? 144. Why did you know that? Most likely because you remember it from your multiplication tables in elementary school or because you know a lot of your squares. But what's 274*521? That takes a little longer. Of course you know how to multiply, but unless you rent out space on your memory chip to that specific product then you're not going to know it any faster. Of course you'll probably know the fastest way to figure it out, but all you'll have is an algorithm, not an answer.

don't get me wrong, I really want these things. But Don't delude yourself into thinking that it brings to the future. All this will mean is everyone kicks ass at Jeopardy, and the education system will need to be reworked to exclude recognition and factual information, instead focusing on direct application and theoretical concepts. Both things I'm really excited for, but to say we're going to have a world of smarties is bullshit. All we're going to have is a world full of Wikipedia experts.

>>3268314
I think you'll like this thread more: [>>3267562]. It's actual science being discussed.

>>3268329

That's a poor description of how they actually, work though. Read the article memory is only part of it

I'm more interested in how one's brain interacts and accesses this memory, what are the neural connections with this chip?

>>3268338
People have all of the information in the world on the internet and could teach themselves anything but you don't see them all become super geniuses. I understand that there is a difference but not exactly a large one. Also this chip increases the amount of memory you have by storing neural signals. But downloading information to your brain requires that you understand how neural signals work in their entirety, which we don't. Essentially this will help us memorize more information faster. We wont be able to download information however.

Wow, when did scientists find out how to store signals from the brain and shit?

Does this mean I don't have to torture terrorists for info anymore?

>>3268428
>Wow, when did scientists find out how to store signals from the brain and shit?
We haven't. That's not what they accomplished.

>>3268093
That'd be great, but I don't know...I just can't see it happening. Unless we use something like nanomachines, and even those would come with their own problems.

>>3268441
Wait, what?Didn't they just make a chip able to store neural signals or something?

What do you mean?

Imagine ads uploaded into your dreams.

>>3268442

Nano machines are being put to practical use already, quantum computers are being built, prostheses is now being integrated into the nervous system, and now we've got the first foundation for brain function augmentation implants. I would bet money the convergence of these technologies will drastically change humanity in under thirty years

>>3268476
They connected two parts of a structure involved in memory (the hippocampus) which were already connected, and had a computer learn the pattern of activation between these two regions. After they disrupted the pathway which connects these two regions, and indirectly stimulated the output target region, the rats improved on a memory task. Furthermore, if they stimulated the output region when the direct connection was not disrupted, rats improved their performance with respect to baseline. If they inversed the pattern, rats performed worse.

So basically what they did was simulate one neural pathway. It's cool, but hardly as revolutionary as people here seem to think.

>>3268509
>and indirectly stimulated the output target region
directly*

Actually I think you've got it wrong, what they did was so simple, that this technology has the potential to be revolutionary very quickly.

>>3268534
This does not scale to anything beyond simple conditioning.

Fairly certain you could reduce if not completely eliminate some symptoms from Parkinson's that is pretty revolutionary

>>3268603
Actually a whole host of diseases could be managed with these kinds of implants I'm pretty sure

first off, propaganda
second off, don't start putting shit into your brains morans.

These Pavlovian marketing techniques are equivalent to advertising nuclear powered flying cars (we've been waiting for these for decades): the technology isn't available and even if it were you fuckers are dam foolish for letting this hazardous shit be on the commercial market. The other factor at work here, presenting you with stuff that is not going to be available in your lifetime, is that they're just doing market research in order to get the research & development funding.

Apply a little fucking common sense, this stuff will long be used in the military before impotent cunts get a hold of it. Do you even realize the fucked up human testing that will have to take place? Do you really think they can scale up the technology from a rat to a human? Bitch please, you're sold-on and blinded by the hype-created miracles from your self-righteous corporate messiahs.

GET BACK TO REALITY.

>>3268843
You sir, are an idiot if you really think this will have NO impact on our lives at some point in the future.

The article stands for itself, it makes no mention of a product..

How do they teach rats to do stuff?

>>3268881
Did I say "[I] really think this will have no impact"?
The article stands for marketing research, I don't know what kind of gibberish you're trying to imply with that "stands for itself" rhetorical crap.

all I know is that a shit ton of crappy super complex music genres would sprout up and the music industry would die

>>3268914
>212 posts and 36 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view.

Good luck with that sage...

>>3268959
as if it isn't already dead

>>3268966
well if it bothers you here's another.

Thread tl;dr, however OP and the article writer are missing a huge part about how neural networks work. Yes, you can do what the researchers did (obviously, as they did it), which is to artificially add to the neural network that serves as memory, and switch it on and off.

However, what you cannot do is move that from one neural net to another, and have it have any meaning in the other neural net. It only has meaning in the context in which those nodes were grown. So no chips that will teach you kung fu, just chips that let you remember more.

Just tossing this out there, although it's been mentioned partially before.

This will only increase memory capacity. It won't do anything for your synapses that actually make you understand the knowledge.
You could dump all the information about nuclear engineering into my head, but I wouldn't know shit about what to do with it unless I "learned" it in a proper manner where my brain could form the connections to make it work.
We won't be able to instantly create piano players, they'll still need to practice hard and that.

Admittedly, this will accelerate learning and make it a lot easier to remember all sorts of handy things like survival tips and trivia and little tricks to make life easier but this is far from turning the world into geniuses.