/sci/ - Science & Math

george bush did the holocaust

>>3179276
3/10

>>3179291

Now it all fits together. /thread

We will probably find out in a few decades op

when things are cooled down in iraq and all

its over and done, the chance for questions is gone.. the public bought whatever was sold and by whoever was selling.

plz dnt forget the wmd thingy

>>3179336

You where born as an orginal.


Don't die as a copy, fuck that.

>>3179336
that's a good point because some people will be very gracious and quick about forgiving that error. Even though I'm very __skeptical__ of the people who have authority over me I also repress the feelings of involvement on that one. On some level there has not been enough repentance for killing innocent people.

>>3180053
there is also has not been enough vindictive attacks on Americans who refuse to feel shame.

>>3180053
there has also not been enough vindictive attacks on Americans who refuse to feel shame.

> Former FBI Director telling the truth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBHbJzproj0

Securities and exchange commission was in building 7.

They were investigating Halliburton.

>>3180200
And because their building fell down, now there is no SEC anymore, and no publicly traded companies get audited anymore.

>>3180251
Funny how Halliburton got all those no-bid contracts for Iraq.

>>3180251
that moot satire and avoids how serious and suspicious an investigation against Halliburton was but people like you tend to ignore intuitive shit.

Sometimes I hate how stupid my fellow anons are. Always looking for that little rebellion, trying to be DER OMG TRUTH-RANGER.

Just stop. Some things are exactly what they seem to be.

>>3180403
>implying everything is only seemingly one way

>>3180415
For many things there is one clearly most-rational explanation.

>>3180415
Everything is either true or false.

Take your Kant somewhere else.

Everyone in this thread is completely retarded except Philosopher. There is no conspiracy.

>>3180425
>implying other people in the thread aren't saying the exact same thing

>implying a group of people even as powerful as the U.S government could pull this shit off without hundreds or thousands of people coming out with proof of what happened

>>3180419
>>3180420
>>3180425
>>3180440
>oh common shit is simple everybody
appeals to ignorance
fallacies of consensus
dunning-kruger effect

oh boy, my understanding of cognitive biases is way to primitive to handle this shit

>>3180450
If that is what happened, then they could and did.

They have successfully done creepier and more outright evil things, however. This is chump change.

No one's addressed Op's points yet.

I think that's probably the most telling part of this thread.

>>3180470
STOP READING INTO EVERYTHING THIS ISN'T QUANTUM MECHANICS

>>3180450
> Doesn't understand compartmentalized intelligence and operations.

>>3180466
>They have successfully done creepier and more outright evil things, however. This is chump change.

Please go on.

>>3180475
> Still avoiding Op's points.

I think his points are valid, and instead of seeing them get disputed in meaningful ways I see people saying "stick your head in the sand this isn't what we were told!"

>>3180476
I would even gamble that person never used the word "compartmentalization"

>>3180478
CIA, LSD, FRANCE, BREAD

>>3180470

OP cited no sources for any of his points. Until such a time as reliable sources are cited, I will not waste my time responding to points that are clearly bullshit. Stupid fucking conspiracy theorist morons.

did anyone ever think that you know...

THE TERRORISTS FUCKING STASHED EXPLOSIVES ON THE PLANE?

If that's possible.

>>3180495
>bring explosives
>forget guns

>>3180494
He would just cite a terribly edited Youtube video.

>>3180486
I have never used the word compartmentalization. Yes I just did you google to find out what the word means.

>>3180495
Oh, shut up. Stop trying to complicate shit.

>>3180478
MKultra. Actually, just go here and pee your pants:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States

>>3180501

Exactly. All of these stupid theories break down when tested by hard science and the testimony of experts in the relevant fields.

>>3180503
Anybody in the business of war compartmentalizes information

>>3180478
During the Alcohol prohibition the US government intentionally poisoned industrial alcohol reserves, murdering thousands of US citizens.

Once the US citizens realized this was happening, they began counteracting the poisons.

Once the US goverment recognized the US citizens were counteracting the poisons, the US government used more kinds of poisons which were even deadlier and which were even more difficult to counteract.

I believe the death toll ended up at ~12,000. So four times that of the WTC event.

http://www.slate.com/id/2245188

They did this with the full knowledge of the mass murder they were committing because they believed that by killing off several thousand US Citizens they could scare them out of using Industrial Alcohol.

Agenda > Lives as far as our government is concerned, you should know this by now.

This is just tip of the iceberg, in the 70s they authorized chemical weapons testing on US citizens, and before that was MK Ultra.

>>3180513
1. The author of that is totally politically compromised, with an agenda.
2. Get back on topic.

>>3180478
>witness the japanese emperor hiro-hito commit the most grotesque human experiments ever conceived
>defeat japanese after pearl harbor attack
>take research papers
>hire hiro hito

>>3180513
>>3180507
One very important thing I'd like to point out:

None of these things remained secret.

>>3180522
Nothing useful was learned from Unit 731. The level of the science was atrocious.

>>3180524
that's because they are old news AND WE DON'T DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT ANYMORE

>>3180508
So you believe that he is lying about the research and findings that he claims?

So then if I were to show you the actual sources for this, and they were not "a heavily edited youtube video" would you just make up a new rationalization to conserve your predisposition or would you legitimately analyze the situation from an objective standpoint?

I've seen everything the op referenced in the past and they were legitimate peer reviewed works, I don't really want to go find them again if you are just going to troll about it though because "I ALREADY DECIDED WHAT I'M GONNA BELIEVE!!"

Let me know!

>>3180527
>put hiro hito on the pay roll anyways

>>3180507
>this means gwbush planned 9/11

>>3180513

You are officially the stupidest sack of shit on this board (and that's saying something) if you actually believe this shit.

>>3180528
I'm pointing out that it's silly to point to horrible atrocities which have not been kept secret, and then say there's an even huger one that IS secret, despite involving so many people and being against so much evidence.

WTC was brought down by airplanes. Deal with it, faggots.

>>3180526
> citation needed.

Wiki takes it seriously enough, why don't you go there and convince them to edit out the chemist wars portion of the Prohibition in the United States page?

Protip: You can't because it happened.

>>3180522
Not a Jap sympathizer, or a patriot, but that information they traded and used was useful, and the deaths of the thousands of chinese civilians would have been in vain if it was just discarded and forgotten.

Not exactly an American atrocity, but they should have just taken the info and said fuck the police, then kill those jap scientists off instead of letting them live.

>>3180539
Wait wait WAIT!

Wiki takes it seriously? WIKI!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

THEN IT MUST BE TRUE.

>>3180536
right and nobody keeps secrets anymore because we put them in jail, conspiracies are obsolete, trust me, I get it

>>3180536
This is a fallacy, you are basically saying:

"Show me evidence of US committed attrocities."

"Oh, this evidence doesn't count because we found out about it."

If there are attrocities that the US government committed that no one came forward about, or that we don't know about, then we can't cite them for you, so let me guess you just trolling? I can't imagine you're actually this stupid.

>>3180539
You're just talking about denatured alcohol, aren't you? If so, LOL.

>>3180531

Post them. Even if they are "peer-reviewed" that doesn't mean they aren't bullshit. I am not trolling. I just find it astounding that anyone can believe this shit. The official account makes perfect sense.

>>3180552
You completed missed the point of my post.

Stuff like this can't be kept a secret when it happens. The very examples being used are proof of that. That's what's so incredibly delusional about Truthers.

>>3180552
lol, DON"T USE HIS WORDS WHEN YOU THINK YOU WILL BECOME STUPIDER

>>3180551
Three men can keep a secret, if two of them are dead.

>>3180552

That doesn't remotely resemble what he said.

>>3180565
it's an accurate paraphrase
ridiculously accurate

If 9/11 was a government plan, I would think that at least one of the several hundred individuals involved would speak out against the idea of killing 3000 people and saying something.

>>3180549
So far I've pointed out two sources which are significantly more reliable than you are.

You've just used rhetoric and made unsupported claims to the contrary. EG "I've already decided what I'm gonna believe, what I was told to!"

Why engage in the conversation if you are so predisposed to your existing belief set that you cannot seriously consider anything contrary to the views you already hold? "I don't have any evidence for my positions that I randomly throw out, but I'll just start yelling loud that the other side is lying and that the multiple sources they are citing are less worthwhile than my opinion! I'll change history by denying it!"

>>3180565
that's because he's in denial about history being able to repeat itself

>>3180552
>Experts on the subjects regarding the fall of towers say it's more than possible that the collapse was caused by airplanes
>THEY WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT

>>3180535
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States

Look under "Society"

>>3180567
LOL
I'm the one who wrote the original post, and I already told you you're wrong.
>>3180560

>>3180572
>Why engage in the conversation if you are so predisposed to your existing belief set that you cannot seriously consider anything contrary to the views you already hold?
This, coming from a truther? The irony is palpable.

>>3180580
> Still ignoring points in the op.

"If we call this guy a truther, we can avoid actually addressing the points in the thread."

I'm not a "truther" I'm just someone who questions my government and what the media says, by the way. Sorry if that offends you.

>>3180576
but your asking him to prove something impossible to prove. Prove that there is a murderer when nobody knows about a murder...

is it possible to phathom your own stupidity yet?

>>3180580
He pointed out articles with legitimate and accredited historical citations, and you counter with "truther"?

Are you a child, or just delusional?

>Head Evil White Guy In Charge: "Hey, every other Evil White Guy in the New World Order, rather than blow up some planes 30,000ft in the air and say it was done by turrists to create a false flag and start a bunch of wars that'll make all of us EWGs SUPAH-RICH, let's 'pretend' to fly some planes into some buildings DURING RUSH-HOUR IN NEW YORK CITY ON FUCKING LIVE TV, because it's so much easier to fool people, rather than blowing up some planes way up in the air out of sight and with no one to try to prove us wrong."

tldr: joos did it

>>3180571

>Implying ONE article from an online magazine counts as a "peer-reviewed source"

Do you really need 7 threads to realize there's no other explanation to spherical magnetic dust particles other than nanothermite?

>>3180601
Does he, or does he not believe that the WTC buildings were brought down by bombs planted by the government? If so, pointing out the hypocrisy is valid. I'm not even contesting the allegations of other atrocities ATM. It's not necessary.

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-6402347900887643799#

GUYS WATCH THIS GOVERMENT PROPOGANDA

THEY ALL PAID BY THE GOVERNMENT TO SPREAD LIES

>>3180608
>there's no other explanation to spherical magnetic dust particles other than nanothermite?
LOLno. This is simply wrong. IT's one of the most laughably wrong "proofs" of all truther arguments.

>>3180608
>spherical magnetic dust particles

You sound like someone on an episode of fucking Star Trek: TNG.

NANOTHERMITE
NANOTHERMITE
NANOTHERMITE
NANOTHERMITE
NANOTHERMITE
NANOTHERMITE
NANOTHERMITE
NANOTHERMITE
NANOTHERMITE
NANOTHERMITE

If I say it ten times, then everyone will think it happened.

>>3180614
LIES AND BULLSHIT
HERE IS A MUCH BETTER VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw2GwRoezsg

>>3180617

This. Thermite is used for welding and other construction techniques, thus it is likely to be found in the rubble. People seem to think thermite is some wonder-destructo-death substance because they watch a few episodes of mythbusters. If I wanted to destroy WTC, I sure as hell wouldn't use thermite.

>>3180617

Nanothermite barely existed back in 2001.

Let them believe what they want, you can't help them. They are here to waste our oxygen.

>>3180605
I count 11 sources there.

Some sources for explosive organic and thermitic material found on site at WTC and for the tiny spheres of iron:

http://www.benthamscience.com/open/tocpj/articles/V002/7TOCPJ.htm?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCP
J.SGM
http://www.springerlink.com/content/f67q6272583h86n4/

Oh hey look it's an edited youtube video.

>>3180631
There is nothing compositionally suspect about the dust of the WTC collapse. You're delusional.

>>3180629
you still haven't proven why anybody needs to read that bullshit

>>3180636

No, you are delusional. See:
>>3180637

My considered response is
>spheres
[citation needed]
>TNT dust
[citation needed]
>rubble kept producing heat
[citation needed]

>>3180636
>melted steel
>happens all the time

>>3180636
>oh shit, that was stupid

>>3180637
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bentham_Science_Publishers#Controversy

Also: UAE.

>>3180642

See:
"When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring at approximately 430 °C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite"

For that same article you linked.

>>3180637
>The Environmentalist
>cited by 1
>The Open Chemical Physics Journal
Nice.

http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

>>3180629

The amount of sources relevant to this person's assertion is one. And it's bullshit.

>>3180645
>>3180645
>>3180645
>>3180645
>>3180645
>>3180645
>>3180645
>>3180645
>>3180645

>>3180604
Whether or not the official story is true, whether or not nano thermite or another substance was used in the destruction of WTC 7, does not mean that our own government did it. It just means that the official public story is untrue.

Pretending like it was either a couple muslims mad at "freedom" or the US government, or "the jews" is what's known as a false dilemma. There are other possibilities.

HOW CAN YOU GUYS THINK OUR GOVERNMENT WOULD KILL CITIZENS?!

LOOK AT EVERYTHING POLITICIANS HAVE TO DO TO GET ELECTED!

BRIBES, MURDER, BLACKMAIL, ESPIONAGE... THE LIST GOES ON AD ON.

PLEASE, WON'T YOU THINK OF THE POOR POLITICIANS? THEY ARE THE VICTIMS HERE.

>>3180662
>There are other possibilities.
One explanation is vastly more likely than all the others.

Terrorists hijacked airplanes and crashed them into buildings.

>>3180645
see:
>>3180637

You've been given citation, but you don't actually want cited sources which contradict your views because you've already decided what to believe and nothing can change that.

>>3180666

This. The official account is exactly what happened. The evidence of this is incontrovertible.

>>3180666
What was the flight number of the airplane that crashed into WTC 7?

Two airplanes hit the towers, three towers collapsed.

One airplane was crashed because the passengers rose up against the hijackers.

>>3180666
And the president was DEFINITELY informed of the attack by the CIA weeks before it happened.

>>3180668
you're confusing
>thermite
with
>iron and aluminium particles
I'll give you three geusses as to what kinds of metals the structure of WTC7 was made of.

>>3180671
Do you know what the evidence is or do you just make statements like this?

The evidence is a simulation which failed to replicate the collapses, and then modifying the simulation over and over until it achieved the pre-decided results that the commission wanted to get.

The "incontrovertible" evidence also includes a stated lack of intent (and lack of period) to investigate the possibility of the use of combustion as a contributing factor to the collapse of any of the towers. NIST worked on nano thermite compounds in 1999.

>>3180673

So, you are implying that a building can only collapse if an airliner crush into it?
If not (and I hope that is the case), what is the purpose of your question?

>>3180666
>satan get
hell yeah bro!
There's only one thing that doesn't seem plausible though, why did the terrorist passports and muslim bandannas (proof of their muslimity) survive the fire, wreckage and devistation?

>>3180684
No I'm not, you clearly haven't read the cited sources. Please do before making ignorant statements.

Standard paint chips don't have more explosive potential per gram than dynamite.

Look up "Operation Northwoods" for precedence in US planning for false-flag attacks on American citizens.

Also, the mechanics of what happened on 9-11 are trivial pursuits compared to who benefits from the events of that day. Here, again, is the "Coincidence Theorist's Guide to 9-11:"
http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2004/08/coincidence-theorists-guide-to-911.html

>>3180694
All the world is a stage.

>>3180684
how many guesses do you get at their melting point?

>>3180662
>There are other possibilities.

No, there aren't. It was 19 guys on four planes, supported by an extremist Muslim organization comprising roughly 2,000-5,000 dedicated activists and financial backers.

This is what happened. This is the simplest explanation. This explanation is supported by a literal ENCYCLOPEDIA of documentation.

When something burns, it gives off smoke. That smoke is the incinerated material that is currently being burned--it is no longer solid, it is now char and gas. Look at the smoke coming out of the WTC. All of that smoke USED to be part of the structure and its contents. Now it's simply being dispersed into the atmosphere and contributing to the massive fires already started by the jet-fuel-splashed walls and carpets and curtains and desks of the WTC offices.

When buildings get hit by objects traveling at 400mph and filled with fuel, they burn. When buildings burn, they fall.

>>3180703
>implying melting is required

>>3180685

The evidence is the application of science and engineering to the problem. You have yet to cite a reliable source that confirms anything you have said. The sources in favor of the official story are numerous. Just a taster: Popular Mechanics.

>>3180685

Alot of guys were working on nano-thermite. The problem is that it was almost impossible to great in large volumes (read: more than 100 grams worldwide) prior to 2003.

If you are interested, read about it's history. Fuck that, read everything that has to do with nanotechnology. It's fucking awesome. From self-replicating thingies, to invisible shit, to extra reactive materials.

>>3180699
how are you going to bring up Northwoods and not bring up PNAC???

Do you realize the amount of willful ignorance you must beat down? Don't take their commitment to stupidity lightly

>>3180685
This is not rational. You're pulling stuff out of your ass to avoid modifying your worldview.

>>3180689
You stated that airplanes crashed into the towers causing them to collapse, I pointed out that one of the towers which collapsed was not hit by an airplane, correcting your ignorant statement.

That said, no steel framed skyscraper in the history of mankind had collapsed due to fire, and WTC 7 did take some structural damage from the collapsing WTC 1 and more notably, 2, but this damage was minimal (most of the building was in tact, with only one corner taking significant levels of damage, and the collapse started in an area and in a manner that did not imply the debris damage caused the collapse). NIST ruled that the office fire was what caused the tower to collapse, even though much hotter fires had burned much longer on other skyscrapers without a collapse.

I'm not sure why you are so defensive about being corrected on your implication that airplanes hit each tower which fell, when instead one plane was crashed onto the ground instead of a tower, but a third tower still fell anyway.

>>3180709
>When buildings burn, they fall.

Correction: when ANYTHING burns, it falls.

>>3180716
right we can just beat the spheres out of the metal

>>3180730
your mom
now fall bitch

>>3180728
Your post screams Loose Change. Loose Change has been fucked in the ass numerous times, most notably by PopMech.

>>3180728
> NIST ruled that the office fire was what caused the tower to collapse, even though much hotter fires had burned much longer on other skyscrapers without a collapse.
This part of your argument hides invalid steps in logic. There is nothing wrong with the fact that a fire brought the damaged WTC to collapse. It's perfectly consistent with what was observed and what is known.

>>3180699
>cites a "precedent" of an operation that didn't happen.

>>3180726
Actually you are being irrational, instead of addressing the cited points made in this thread you are resorting to just calling people irrational, a truther, or other ad hominems in an attempt to avoid real discussion.

Pic related it's the Madrid Skyscraper when it burned for 20 hours.

>>3180740
There is nothing wrong with the fact that a fire brought the damaged WTC 7 to collapse.
Fixed.

>>3180747
And you pretend this proves something?

I'll go with the civil engineers, thanks.

>>3180747
And compare that with the WTC7 fire (pic related, also note the relative integrity of the WTC7 structure).

Don't believe your lying eyes, and don't take into account that the Madrid fire burned longer and hotter than WTC 7, either.

>>3180696
lawdeh
I never mentioned paint chips
The reports mention small pieces of aluminium and iron oxide, which are both found in any building with galvanised steel supports that's more than 5 years old.
The second document doesn't cite anything properly (fires couldn't be put out) and doesn't consider the possibility that a building collapsing might generate quite a lot of friction.

>When buildings burn, they fall.

WOW! That is so meaningful, I know I can totally trust our government now, like, ya'know? Politicians are the good guys, I'm wrong and you're right.

IGNORE THE POLITICIANS! THEY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING!

YOU DON'T EVEN NEED TO VOTE FOR THEM ANYMORE!

>>3180728
>no steel framed skyscraper in the history of mankind

>IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>INNNN DER HASTRY UB MANKUNDER!!!!!

>skyscrapers have been around for about 80 years

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human
>Anatomically modern humans originated in Africa about 200,000 years ago, reaching full behavioral modernity around 50,000 years ago.

You're right, no steel-structured skyscrapers WERE collapsed due to fire in 3400 BC. I have no argument to refute this.

>>3180747
> Didn't collapse due to fire.

>>3180754
> Did collapse "due to fire."

Incontrovertible evidence that nothing is amiss, I dare say!

>>3180764
I'm not sure how this invalidates my point that no previous skyscraper had collapsed as a result of office fire, despite other skyscrapers having burned for significantly longer periods at significantly greater magnitudes and higher temperatures spanning larger percentages of the skyscraper's structure than WTC 7.

>>3180759
>I don't believe in physics

But you DO believe in alien visitation, donchta? C'mon, admit it.

take this bullshit to /x/

>>3180764
No, he's right. WTC is one of a kind.

>>3180771
Source.

>>3180773
>finish him
>HE-MADALITY
>debunker wins!

>>3180784
???

>>3180771
I was mocking your silly hyperbole.

>>3180773
Without fail, the first person to bring up "aliens" in a discussion on WTC collapses is not the "truthers" but instead the side which believes the official story.

Sad that you have to try and inject these ad hominems in order to avoid the actual discussion at hand.

>>3180778
your mom belongs in /x/
NOW FALL BITCH

>>3180790
EG avoiding discussion and failing to make a point.

>>3180794
do you believe in alien visitation?

>>3180728

First of all, that was my first post in the thread. Apparently you were debating with another anon, and I apologize for the confusion.

Lets move on to the points now, shall we?

First of all, no no steel framed skyscraper in the history of mankind had ever had an airliner strike it, producing about 18Gj of energy.
Furthermore, on the topic of damage on WTC7. Are you a civil engineer? Are you qualified to say wherever or not the damage was excessive? Neither am I, but I trust the thousand guys who say that the damage was severe.
Lastly, I would take the word of NIST over some photos with big red letters painted on them, on a blog named "9/11truth".

Thank you for reading :)

ps: if you feel like it, contact CDI and ask them. You might get lucky and get someone who is bored and having a good day

>>3180773
>alien visitation

I give it as much credence as religion.

>>3180754
>Don't believe your lying eyes, and don't take into account that the Madrid fire burned longer and hotter than WTC 7, either.
It seems that all truthers suffer massively from Dunning-Kruger. They believe they have both the required data and the expertise to arrive at useful conclusions in fields that others must study for decades.

WTC7 from brought down by a combination of structural damage and uncontrolled fires. The principal reason I believe it? All the civil engineers believe it. Except for a handful of truthers (there are a LOT of civil engineers).

>>3180801
Believe in alien visitation
hell
I AM AN ALIEN
WHAT NOW!?

>>3180801
Wow, you're really got this thing for aliums.

>>3180801
I don't believe in alien visitation, nor any kind of illuminate or other bullshit. I just believe that there's more to the WTC story than we've been told because that's what the evidence I've seen suggests.

Keep trying to derail instead of discuss the actual topic at hand.

>>3180800
Provide some sources to your stupid hyperbole, and then you won't get mocked.

What structures similar to the WTC have been struck by 400mph planes filled with jet-fuel and not collapsed?

People always talk about how it seems to have been a controlled demolition, but if the government was willing to kill hundreds of it's own people why would they go through the trouble of making sure it fell top bottom, why would they care if it fell off to the side and killed more people?

/sci/, how many truther threads will it take to convince you all that these people are irretrievably irrational?

>>3180811
nah you should figure out what structure similar to WTC were built to withstand being struck by 400mph planes...
that would be more effective

>>3180806
One of my friends is a civil engineer, civil engineers "believing" one way or the other is meaningless to me since I actually know a few of them (his other civil engineer work buddies). He works in socal and likes to race cars btw.

Your reliance on the belief of "civil engineers in general" is very telling and shows that you don't know any yourself.

>>3180810
Okay, that's great. I'm surprised you don't believe in alien visitation, since most "Truthers" do.

Now back on topic: if you think that 19 dedicated cuntfucks couldn't pull this off, you're a paranoid delusional shitbag.

>>3180817
WTC structures were specifically designed to withstand this.

>>3180814
Hell, why not just hire the muslims to do it. I mean, a much more reasonable conspiracy is that they allowed the terrorists to succeed. But this bombing business? Full retard.

>>3180823
Not that size of plane, and not fully loaded with fuel. If you really cared about getting this right, you'd have already known that.

>>3180817
I don't have to find out shit. Truthers are the ones making the unsupported assertions, so THEY have to prove what they're saying.

>>3180814
>but if the government was willing to kill hundreds of it's own people

The government is willing to kill tens of thousands of it's own people, even when there were significantly fewer people.

>>3180821
> Try to associate unrelated belief systems to the side which has a different view than me.

You're pathetic. This isn't a "let's play propaganda" game it's a discussion with cited sources.

>>3180823
NOBODY DOES THAT
WHO THE FUCK PREPARES FOR INSANCE ARABS!?

>>3180820
>Your reliance on the belief of "civil engineers in general" is very telling and shows that you don't know any yourself.
You're ridiculous. The overwhelming majority of the entire field of civil engineers does not consider this matter controversial.

What do you think about people that say vaccines cause autism? Am I wrong to trust the scientists and doctors that have looked into the matter and found no evidence of a link?

I do not have the requisite data or expertise. THEY DO.

>>3180829
ok what size and how much fuel then
>you should know this, lol
not that guy btw

>>3180831
THEN CITE YOUR SOURCES!

fucking hell.

>>3180823

Especially buildings like WTC 6, that was 8-story tall. You never know when a pilot will try to stop at the nearby starbucks.

>>3180840
They were designed to withstand a 707 with mostly empty tanks, IIRC. But look it up yourself - you'll do better than my memory, and can vet the sources yourself.

Here's one source.
http://www.theblackvault.com/wiki/index.php/Collapse_of_the_World_Trade_Center#Design_criticisms

>>3180839
I'm pretty sure that if you charted a graph, you'd find a lot of coincidence-of-population between "9/11 Truthing", "Vaccines herpderp Autism", and Alien visitation.

tldr: they all believe some whacky shit.

>>3180830
>truthers

Aww, it's so cute that you rail against the one guy going off topic in this thread. Treating him like an invading army is ADORABLE! <3<3<3

FUCK-OFF YOU SHITSPEWING FAGGOT.

>>3180858
lolwut?

>>3180850

I don't know what are you talking about, since I don't know exactly with which anon you are talking, but I would like to add that the WTC towers did withstand the hit.

>>3180863
Nothing to see, retard zoo in progress. Move along, feel free to visit the concessions stand.

>>3180864
Sure, they didn't collapse right away. That's true.

the rubble really PRODUCED heat for months as in increased or just eminating?

Why blow up any of the WTC buildings? To what end? Who Benefits?

NANOTHERMITE
WTC 7
NORTH TOWER
SOUTH TOWER
RUBBLE
STEEL
PLANES
JEWS DID IT
OBAMAS BIRTH CERTIFICATE
GUBAMINT
LOOSE CHANGE
WAKE UP SHEEPLE

>>3180850
not seeing where they talk about fuel tanks

>>3180863
YOU GODDAMN TERRORIST MUDSLIME TRUTHERS ARE WHY POLITICIANS HAVE TO LIE, MURDER, AND BLACKMAIL TO GET ELECTED!

IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!

I BET YOU NERFED DEATHKINGHTS TOO!

THAT'S RIGHT, -YOU- DID THE WARCRAFT DEATHKNIGHT NERF!

>>3180869

I am not familiar with numbers, but I believe that a big number of individuals where able to evacuate the towers and thus save themselves.

Lets see how Shard will manage, within the decade :D

>>3180873
Even if it did, what are you implying? That some secret explosive element was buried in the rubble emanating a mysterious crotch-heat? That these apparently-so-clever-they've-fooled-us-all-for-ten-years Evil White Guys didn't realize their SUPAH-SECRET explosive compound might be, um, pretty exotic and detectable?

Wow, we need some smarter EWGs.

>>3179336
>>3179336
>>3179336
>>3179336
>>3179336
>>3179336
>>3179336
>>3179336
>>3179336
>>3179336
>>3179336
>>3179336
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJmFkbBjbO0
OBAMA = HERO
BUSH = JELLY IRAQI KILLER

>>3180881
>oh look what I forgot
PATRIOT ACT SAVES AMERICAN LIVES

>>3180927
and
"NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND WILL SAVE EDUCATION IN AMERICA!"

>>3180939
and then somehow fucking moonbats came in with this bullshit
>TARP WILL SAVE AMERICAN JOBS
what happened?? we were doing so good!!

>>3179336
>mfw there is no hyperbole strong enough to express the way I feel
>then america became the WMD

>>3180945
I hate this board most times.

sighhh...

back to /k/

In any major, unexpected, unpredictable event, there are plenty of unknown unknowns. This, along with the fact that any conspiracy by or known of by government would have undoubtedly been leaked, leads to the unsatisfactory but sensible conclusion that the conventional view is correct or at least the most likely to be correct

>>3180898
3180873 again, no, i wasn't implying that, but now it just seems to me you might know what this as you call "mystery" metal may be. just something actually increasing heat rather than just holding and very slowly decreasing in temperature or something of the sort...shape or exactly how solid it was with so much heat or what not.

>>3180952
see
>>3180194
it helps everybody if you're a little more specific about what you dismiss

>>3180945
>The Troubled Asset Relief Program, commonly referred to as TARP, is a program of the United States government to purchase assets and equity from financial institutions to strengthen its financial sector which was signed into law by U.S. President George W. Bush on October 3, 2008.


It did what it was supposed to do.

The exact opposite of what G. Bush promised it would.

>>3180956
that's bullshit OBAMA destroyed america and you socialists know it!

SOMEBODY CALL AL GORE, THIS IS THE INTERNET DAMMIT!

>>3180952
>no fireman
>no fire
simple

>>3180973
no you've got to dumb it down more, people aren't good when you give them something that doesn't say it has citations especially when said something is a metaphor
>no whistleblower
>no corruption

>>3180985
what do you think this is, Rome? Democracies NEVER have to worry about conspiracies, they have reason and science retard.

>>3180997
Don't forget we have the media and internet too! However, I wouldn't trust anything anybody says on the internet.

>>3180973
It's true that there could have been some kind of cover-up, but it's unlikely. Stuff gets leaked from government all the time, so if the issue has huge moral significance and policy implications then you can bet your life someone is going to take initiative and leak some actual evidence.

>>3180754
That side is facing away from the towers. The other side was mostly inaccessible at the time and covered in billowing smoke anyway.

Here is a shot of the corner of the side facing the towers, and that is not even the center of the building where most of the wreckage hit. The fire burning in the first picture is in other words burning at the opposite side of the impact, meaning it was quite wide spread.

>>3181013
That directly depends on how many people know, and what agencies(if any) are involved.

>>3181013
my concern is that "evidence" would have to be "leaked"

>>3180952

i dont think things are leaked without being approved.. how often do you see government secrets in the tabloids?

anyway when somebody says "conspiracy" you dont need to push the boat out.. know what i mean, its not a frikin circus

>>3181013
somehow this didn't get put through a shredder. I'm paraphrasing here but it should be pretty accurate..
>TO BUSH, FROM BUSH
>SEPTEMBER TODO LIST
>*BUY 4 AIRPLANES
>*BLOW UP WORLD TRADE CENTER 1 WITH A PLANE
>*BLOW UP WORLD TRADE CENTER 2 WITH A PLANE
>*BLOW UP PENTAGON
>*SHOOT DOWN A PLANE
>*USE DEMOLITIONS ON WORLD TRADE CENTER 7
>*PLANT MUSLIM PASSPORTS IN TEH DESTRUCTION
>*BLAME OSAMA-BIN LADEN
>*BRUSH TEETH
>*CALL DAD

>>3181037
here's another one but this one was found inbetween the cushions of a couch.. he musta lost this one.. again, I'm paraphrasing
>TO BUSH, FROM BUSH
>OCTOBER TODO LIST
>*HAVE WEBMASTER DELETE PNAC WEBSIGHT
>*BRUSH TEETH
>*CALL DAD

>>3181037
thats obviously fake,
the president was out playing golf that day

>>3181013
>>3181026
>>3181032
again, please see
>>3180194

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwsdntw5h7I

Compare north and south side and guess which side is more likely to be featured when discussing how intact it was.

>>3181037
Are you implying that if evidence is scarce, then it's no longer required?

>>3181055
And if he was not informed? We wouldn't know about it. Besides, where is his proof?

Seriously, our government does a lot of things that the FBI is not told about.

>>3181055
>he thinks some guy out to promote his own career is a reliable and decisive source

>>3181070
I dunno, I think I'm implying where there's smoke there's not always a fire??

lol, I kid, but seriously, what evidence would you be looking for.. a missing 2.3 trillion dollars? If so we'd have to prove that it did exist in the first place.

This thread gave me dementia.

>>3181078
well.. that's a really awkward reply...
What career would that be?
Radio host or government employee?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNOM_U5UM6Q

Oh hey, look, it's a civil engineer explaining how the towers fell from thermite.

You probably won't watch it.

>>3181074
I don't know what you are asking or saying. Could you paraphrase that? What was he possibly not informed about?

>>3181112

thats just being read from an autocue.. for the most part.

he knew what he was saying,
genuine

>>3181112
Tinfoil hatter; buy his book on alieums, satan, and 9/11.

>>3181139
just like NIST wrote that report to get more government funding!
oh wow, that is an effective argument
thanks for the tip dude!

>>3181139
>>3181165
oh yeah, and what book are you talking about exactly?

>>3181139
>>3181165
>>3181170

I don't hear his claims being substantiated.

>These threads

>>3181194
I don't see you stating the claims which you don't hear being substantiated..

>>3181202
you'd probably have needed to been born before 1988 to really give a shit. This shit is about to be more than a decade old...
THAT IS FUCKING CRAZY!! NOTHING ELSE DOES THAT!! Well, except for the Kennedy assassination which is kinda fucking funny when you research the shit surrounding the time of the assassination rather than the assassination itself.

Head in ground retarded I say!

>>3181225
Satanists, satanists everywhere.

Ruby ridge was the government, along with Oklahoma city and Waco.

CIA and Military drug-smuggling.

9/11 was an inside job.

>>3181251
well i dunno about ruby ridge or satanism rather I don't care to get into that.. All i know is people substantiating the shit out of 9/11 being an inside job so that's about an assbackwards comment right there..
besides you're not being specific so I can't really agree or disagree with you.

>>3181251
oh yeah and there's about to be some more 'research' published as far as the Oklahoma city bombing goes here like next month.. I even think there's some Australians getting into the mix of it, fucking crazy but I don't really know the details about the event or the research enough to say anything substantial myself

>>3181251
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj-b3pB6M7s
THIS ISN'T PROOF, DON'T WATCH IT, THIS IS ONLY FOR CRAZY TINFOIL HATTERS WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND THE GREATER GOOD AND THAT POLITICIANS ARE THE SUPERHEROS CARRYING IT OUT JUST LIKE THE MOVIE WATCHERS TOLD ME SO

>>3181376
>help the locals grow opium so they can pay off debts to the taliban
>feel bad about it
>FIGHTING THE OPIUM TRADE

God I am such a conspiratard hypothesizing my conspiracy theories

but no seriously, I bet CBSNBCBBC RachelMaddows could shit a better story than fox news.

>>3181401
I bet HBOMTVSHOWTIMECOMEDYCENTRAL StephenColberts could shit a better satire than fox news

>>3181413
My John Stewart can beat up your John Stewart!

222 replies and only 2 mentions of "jews" everybody give yourself a round of applause, this is quite an achievement!

>>3181448
That's a 1 out of 111 post probability, that's fucking insane! Godly even!

>>3181448

jaws??? whyfor?

>>3180194

You want to me to believe what a FBI director has to say? What the fuck would he know?

>>3181202
>>3181202
>>3181202
>>3181202
>>3181202

The only way to have your head in the sand is to be on your Knees! ! !

/enthread

>>3180450
>implying thousands of people would need to be in on the plan
>implying the evidence hasn't already been melted down and turned into a warship

You truthers...either the US government assassinates you flawlessly or you're wrong. Which way you wanna go?

i would rather be a truther than a derper
those are the only two options here
in the early years after the event there was a lot of information that seems to have been sanitized from the web by now
i recall interviews with people who had stayed inside the buildings during the weekend with no electricity in the upper half of the buildings
FOR THE LOVE OF KNOWLEDGE PLEASE SHOW ME THAT THAT PROCEDURE HAS BEEN DONE TO ANY OTHER SIMILAIR STRUCTURE AT ANY TIME IN THE LAST 80 YEARS
IT IS A NORMAL THING TO SHUT OFF HALF A MASSIVE BUILDING FROM ALL ACTIVITIES OF COMMERCE?
also the things those people say they were witness to ;
people running in the halls unrolling large wheels of cable?
an entire floor sealed off with sounds coming from it as if there were bobcat type bulldosers being driven around on that floor?
persons from above and below the floors in question were interviewed; why have you never heard this before?
you are not only not well informed but the information you are cherry picking through was prepared for you with your special aptitude for derping in mind

lol @ people still thinking the WTC attack wasn't an inside job. Have you idiots not seen that video of BBC reporting that WTC 7 had fallen before it happened? A reporter is talking about how the tower fell, but you can clearly see the tower still intact behind him. That was all the proof anyone should need, but sheeple gonna sheeple.

>>3184324
>That was all the proof anyone should need
Not really, no.

>>3184331
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7SwOT29gbc

Explain that, bitch. You can't. /thread

>>3184324
im in agreement with you but as a matter of quality of information that type of data is lesser to the kind that was available at one time directly over the web - much even on youtube
there is clear connection to a security company either owned or managed by a member of the bush family that was overseeing the weekend with out electricity
this company was also related to the action of installing 'special insulation' in building 7 a year and a half before the event

>>3184341
Yeah, just as I said, that's nowhere near "all the proof anyone should need".

>>3184341
>Looping footage
Sure thing brah

People still have it wrong. It's not a "massive conspiracy" of the entire government. It's just some corrupt politicians steering everything into the direction they want.
When talking to someone who denies conspiracies you're not talking to someone who is inside but to someone who believes it all.

>>3180527
what?
are you fucking mental?

unit 731's research advanced transplant surgery by 200 years.

We know more about organ rejection and how many organs function due to those papers.

Live vivisections done on a variety of subject infected with a multitude of diseases gave us vast insights into disease progression, interaction, and diagnosis.

Their papers also advanced explosive weapons science to a degree where we've basically topped out the effectiveness of land mines and grenades with existing technology.

We know exactly how long it takes to starve to death thanks to their papers, and have detailed explanations on EACH PHASE of starvation and dehydration.
We know the exact pressure limits of the human body and what the exact dose of lethal xray radiation is because of them.

Science, when untethered from ethics, advances in quantum leaps.

What they did was horrible, but it would be foolish to discard so much valuable data in the name of moral high ground.

>>3184370
>unit 731's research advanced transplant surgery by 200 years.
No.

>>3184370
>What they did was horrible, but it would be foolish to discard so much valuable data in the name of moral high ground.
It's not that moral issues - it's the fact that their science was so fucking shoddy. You might have a point with tests of the effectiveness of grenades and mines, however.

>>3184341
Let me point something out to you. You're telling me the entire BBC is capable of being part of the greatest conspiracy in history, but too stupid to look at a monitor and see the tower is still standing? The government can reroute airplanes to secret bases, plant bombs in the bases of heavily populated towers without anyone knowing, and keep the thousands upon thousands of people required to pull 9/11 off quiet, but they can't get rid of a video clip?

>>3184324
This is retarded. If you were going to bring down those buildings, why would you inform the media? Giving them lines to say is worthless. The buildings are going to fall anyway, and then they'll report it. It only widens the net of people who can expose you to certain execution to unimaginably stupid levels. Your train of thought is so broken it incredible. Seriously, did you even think this through?

You want to know what happened? There was a lot of confusion, and the reporter was mistaken. Happens all the time.

>>3184394
>>3184388
This.
Entire broadcast networks from foreign countries in on the conspiracy, and not one single leak? No.

>>3184388
> Doesn't understand compartmentalization of information in military operations.

BBC doesn't have to be in on the conspiracy, neither does the US government, for explosives/non thermite materials to have been used as contributing agents to the collapse of WTC 1, WTC 2, and WTC 7. That's a false dilemma.

"It would be hard to pull off!" isn't a legitimate counter to the cited evidence in this thread that these materials were present and that controlled demolition occurred at least on WTC 7. "Her der the BBC is stupid!" doesn't refute this. "Her der the most well funded intelligence agencies on Earth can't do anything!" doesn't refute this.

>>3184424
Maybe watch the video and read the comment I was replying to before making yourself sound stupid.

>red chips that contain more energy per gram than TNT

I eat chips containing more energy per gram than TNT for breakfast.

>>3184424
He's responding to this guy, ultimately:
>>3184324

>these materials were present and that controlled demolition occurred at least on WTC 7.
These materials are not actually suspicious, and WTC 7 was brought down by a combination of structural damage and uncontrolled fires. But I'm sure you'll continue with your confirmation bias.

>>3184424
>That's a false dilemma.

No it's not.

>>3184347 cont.
from an intrest in coin collecting as a kid, i was waiting for the euro to become publicly traded in november of 2001
there was little chance it was going to catch on with out some event to help it allong
of intrest also is the 2007 parade celibrating the 50th aniversiary of the signing of the treaty of rome and the creation of the EURO
the euro had been sitting dorman for decades

also take a look at what our airline pilots had to say about the amazing (i.e. imposible) skill of the almost untrained persons who are atributed to piloting the planes
http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=134720

there are so many thread to follow up on that the average derp will never even begin to understand that they truly can not see this forest for all its trees
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=%20GR20051213&articleId=1478

>>3184465
>also take a look at what our airline pilots had to say about the amazing (i.e. imposible) skill of the almost untrained persons who are atributed to piloting the planes
>impossible skill
Bullshit. It fucking happened, you can't argue with that.
You're seriously arguing that the planes weren't flown into the WTC? Fuck this thread, you people aren't rational.
>>3180815

>>3184379
but it did.

They did a shitload of testing regarding transplants and organ rejection.

They were the first to discover blood type matches are a huge factor in rejection, and that one could use immunosupressants to assist in transplants.

Before 731, there had been no completely successful organ transplants.

>>3180494
You are not the OP. I am. Don't try to steal my identity.

>>3180576
You are absolutely correct. I did not provide any sources for my statements and I should have.

---------------------------
Here is a paper that talks about how the rubble produced heat and chemical emissions for months along with evidence for energetic materials.
Title: Environmental Anomalies at the World Trade Center: Evidence for Energetic Materials.
Journal: The Environmentalist

http://www.scientistsfor911truth.org/docs/Ryan_EnvironmentalAnomalies.pdf
---------------------------
Here is an iron spheres reference and further investigation on the dust samples. See especially: page 18.
Title: WTC Dust Signature Report: Composition and Morphology
Prepared by: RJ LeeGroup, Inc.

http://www.nyenvirolaw.org/WTC/130%20Liberty%20Street/Mike%20Davis%20LMDC%20130%20Liberty%20Document
s/Signature%20of%20WTC%20dust/WTC%20Dust%20Signature.Composition%20and%20Morphology.Final.pdf
---------------------------
Here is a paper that talks about the red chips in the dust and iron spheres.
Title: Active Thermitic Materials Discovered in the Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe.
Journal: The Open Chemical Physics Journal.

http://www.benthamscience.com/open/tocpj/articles/V002/7TOCPJ.pdf
---------------------------

Another article: Explosives Found in World Trade Center Dust
However, I don't believe this is published in a peer reviewed journal so keep that in mind. The rest are published.

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/explosive_residues.html#ref19
---------------------------

>>3184445

WTC buildings were specifically designed by the engineers to withstand and survive impacts from jet liners and the ensuing fires that they would cause. In 1993 after the first WTC bombing, a WTC engineer came out and specifically stated that:

1. Jet liners crashing into WTC would not compromise WTC, and that they specifically designed the towers so that they could withstand the impact, damage, and ensuing fires.

2. That said, demolitions experts could still bring WTC down with shaped explosives.

Pic related. I can't post the url directly because 4chan's automated system mistakes it for a referral link, but it is available in pic.

>>3184493
nice to see you respond
i personally saw the many interviews with the people who stayed in the building duing the odd weekend with no electricity
what they said about the floor being sealed off may well account of rthe seeming imposible skill
installed in under the runways of all major airports is a transmitor that is used as a guide for automated landings
such could have been installed for an automated percise landing into the side of the buildings
at the speeds the planes where moving upon inpact there is very nealy no other rational explaination
you assume you know things are as you belive and have no need to even think about what exactly it is that you are choosing to belive

>>3179276
>I think we broke the WTC 7 thread as my latest posts no longer bring the thread to page 0 anymore.

4chan has a bump limit of 300 posts.
After you reach 300 posts, no further posts will bump the thread to the top.
Using 'sage' does not count towards the bump limit.

>>3184544
Btw the guy saying all this was the Head Structural Engineer for the WTC designs.

He stated that they specifically took into account the possibility of a jet liner impacting the side of a WTC tower and the ensuing fires, and designed them such that this could not compromise their structural integrity.

But that shaped explosives laid by demolitions experts probably could.

Gee golly.

>>3184465
>also take a look at what our airline pilots had to say about the amazing (i.e. imposible) skill of the almost untrained persons who are atributed to piloting the planes
http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=134720

But the hijackers were trained, they took classes.
And as for the interview, the pilot never went into detail. He just said it was "impossible", but also said if he had a couple of tries he could do it. So which is it? So why would it be impossible? This kind of thing happened on multiple occasions, IE a plane flying into a building.

>>3184569
This is a pilot with many years of experience and training. The "pilots" who crashed into the WTC buildings allegedly only had a few months of training and did not even know how to land an aircraft.

You are not a pilot so I find it interesting that in the name of confirmation bias you are so willing to disavow his professional opinion on the difficulty of the specific maneuvers performed by the aircraft that hit the towers/pentagon.

Other aircraft have hit buildings in the past, but other aircraft had not performed the specific maneuvers that these ones had to in order to accomplish that task. "Hitting a building" isn't the same level of difficulty in all cases, in these specific cases it was "impossible" for a pilot with a few months of training who didn't even get to the "how do I land a plane" stage of training to pull off, and would take a pilot with years and years of experience "several attempts" to get right.

These amateur pilots only got one attempt and both pulled it off flawlessly with minimal training. Not hard to understand.

>>3179276

Let me tell you why things like 911 happen.

They happen because the cosmos were not created so we can rest in a static nirvana.

They also weren't created so we can rest in a static hell.

a time will come where you will look back on this stuff and wonder why you why you couldn't see the big picture at the time.