/sci/ - Science & Math

>>3128593

We collectively see the Victory Screen, see our score, and are asked if we would like to play again.

Keep exploring.

100 million galaxies out there.

Invent gigasodomy

You're assuming we have done things which (A) is in violation of our current understanding of the universe
>have developed FTL spacecraft

and (B) may not be possible at all.
>fully knowing the universe, such as initial moments of big bang, complete knowledge of all variables known (which in itself creates a paradox), etc., etc.

We create another species, watch them grow, then we move on to the next dimension and wait for them to follow in our footsteps.

DESTROY EVERYTHING

I believe that I what I describe in my first post is one of really only two logical outcomes for humanity as a whole.

Sure, FTL, time manipulation and aliens are fantastical, but their discovery and utilisation would be what we would continuously strive for until it's either done or utterly disproved, the end goal being a lasting environment for everyone that resemble the mythical depictions of Heaven.

The other being extinction.

If you do all that shit with medicine, people will be afraid of death.

this is bad

>>3128648

Furthermore I believe that the very meaning of our existence can be derived from this idea, because if the struggle towards perfection is what we will always, as a collective, pursue, until it's done, then one could reasonably conclude that we are meant to live a purely hedonistic lifestyle, based on the premise that this is exactly what we would do.

So I basically think that hedonists are actually right.

Highest Universe Score
Highest Population Score
Fastest Ascent to Transcendence
Ascent to Transcendence
Secret Projects: 999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999&
#44;999
Technology: 999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999&
#44;999
Energy Reserves: 999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999&
#44;999
Population: 999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999&
#44;999
Difficulty: Reality
Iron Man: +100%
Universe Score: 999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999&
#44;999
Universe Rating: 9,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999&#4
4;999%

>>3128677

Which, in my mind, raises the question; if we are meant to be hedonists, then why bother struggling through the millions of years of evolution and development that it would take to reach perfection? Why not just skip it all and be a hedonist now? It is the point of our existence, and fantastic supertechnology is not necessary to life a hedonistic lifestyle, it would only serve to enhance such a lifestyle. But given the immense waiting period, again, why bother?

go back in time and save every person before they die so that we can all live forever in the future

if we can see someone's entire life we can better make judgements on that person as to whether or not they should be saved, so you can just invisibly tail them for a bit to see what they are like and if you think they are deserving of being saved

>>3128701
because then we couldn't be ULTIMATE hedonists like our future selves. the tech has to be developed somehow

>>3128713

This invokes a scale between being idealistic and realistic. Sure, I'd love to explore alien worlds, but I accept that such opportunities will never happen in my lifetime. Given that, any attempt I make to further knowledge in that particular field would really only benefit very distant ancestors.

Why should I care about them?

>>3128713

The investment payoff problem. Is being hedonistic now going to add up to more total hedonism than having to be rationalistic enough to create all those wondrous hedonism machines before the end of the universe and the final score screen?

>>3128593
if you have to ask what we would do having done everything else you're an idiot... look around, we'd fuck, drive cars, and break stuff

>>3128601
well played

find somthing new. create it if we must.

pull a necron, go to sleep for a few eons and see what happens when we wake up.

>>3128593

You should read these novels:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_series

then man becomes god

Probably create new universes for amusement, and exist as gods of these new universes.

Our own universe may very well have been artificially created as an art project by a member of civilization in another dimension that already reached transcendence.

>>3128746

Unless incredible breakthroughs are made, at the very least, in the fields of immortality and unlimited energy right NOW and also made readily available to every single person on the planet (which is incredibly unlikely), then I would say that every person alive today will never experience anything even remotely close to what I described in my OP. That said, I believe that yes, hedonism is the choice with the highest payoff.

>>3128754

Bigger, faster, better, shinier ways to do the same old shit.

>>3128701
>>3128713
>>3128745
Immortality. An ETERNITY of hedonism. The normal hedonism you could experience now would be like a drop in the bucket compared to a pure ocean of mental and physical hedonistic delight!

Also would you give up eternity for a few years of pleasure? It seems kind of irrational to me.


Also OP: At the point mentioned in your topical post, I'd rather improve humans themselves beyond just "humans with cybernetics and nanotech". I doubt "humanity" would survive long enough to invent all of those anyway. I think the only right thing to do would be to try to combat Therians or escape the universe we're in to another one(whether or not there are other universes) so that we can continue existing as individuals.

>>3128785

"I was going to give you a B+ Jilglimmy, but goddamn those humans have some interesting wars. Here's an A+ for you."

>>3128805
Whether you're hedonistic or not doesn't mean anything. If you're hedonistic and die, then years later some form of clinical immortality presents itself, what then? You've squandered an eternity of existence. Not that it matters, since you'll be dead though and not care, but you know what I mean.

>>3128850
Well, squandered the possibility of it. You'll be giving up all the knowledge you could have had and all the power along with it.

The most advancement also means we will have advanced our vessels.

Until we get to the point of being a pure thought, we are not finished.

We ascend to a higher plane of existance and become gods the gods of this lower plane

>>3128805

I would like to freeze myself, when the time comes. That way I can escape death, and live in the future.

>>3128839

I think the means to an eternal state of hedonism exist. I don't think that it will ever be made available to me. So I don't feel that there's any risk in rejecting the pursuit of knowledge, because it's benefits to my life will be nominal at best. Maybe I cure a disease, or creat a new gizmo that makes things go a little faster, but ultimately life would still be pretty much the same old shit.

I'm not saying scientific pursuit is no longer beneficial. I'm suggesting that it is no longer necessary for the pursuit of a hedonistic lifestyle, which seems to be the only reasonable lifestyle.

We check to see if where we are on the cosmic leaderboard.

If we're not number one we start over.

>>3128879
I think you're too trusting of mankind's benevolence. What would make you think people in the future would bother to unfreeze you?

Enjoy an eternity of icy limbo, bro.

This is rather pointless, our frame of reference at that time will be entirely different.

Though I suppose I'll humor you.
Why not try to create anomalous events which even we can not understand immediately so that we have something else to figure out.

>>3128882
I gain more pleasure and fulfillment from discovery and conquest of the scientific and intellectual world though, than simple eating or sex. For me, science is hedonistic. Each new discovery is like getting a handjob from the cosmos.


If humanity were to achieve such a state as OP's post I'd think we should go back in time, get every single human being ever born and stick them all in one place. Nice and categorized before just going into an infinite time loop or continuing on into other dimensions or universes.


Also personally I find hedonists sort of short-sighted and silly. Though I slightly feel that way about most people who aren't actually working toward a solid goal with more obvious results.

>>3128850

Think of the alternate. How would you feel if you squandered 50 years of your life in a lab researching immortality, only to achieve nothing? When you lie on your deathbed, will you reminisce about love and family, or charts and test results? What would you wish you had more of?

>>3128895

I paid for it, they put it in the bank, they get millions in the future. I would rather dream forever than be non-existent.

>>3128913

Though I suppose it's the same thing.

>>3128907
I'd probably reminisce about not being able to achieve what I wanted. If I were on my deathbed with a loving wife and family, I'd reminisce about all the time I wasted with them when I could have been doing SCIENCE instead, something worthwhile. Either way I'd feel like shit over having to die and lose the only thing that was ever REALLY important(life itself).


Either way I'd feel bad. If I lost my loved ones from working on science, I'd regret not being able to achieve anything that prevented me from dying while at the same time not being able to be close to them. If I lost any hopes of furthering science or at least watching and taking part in it, I'd be on my death bed wondering if I could have done anything to change what had happened.


Either way I'd want to freeze myself on the incredibly small chance that I'm brought back somehow, though I doubt it. If I were a famous scientist, it might increase my chances in that, however.

>>3128905

I figured someone would eventually parallel scientific discovery with pleasure, which is all well and good, but the fact is most of us really don't care for science, nor are we even capable of fully grasping it. You really need a certain type of brain. Blowjobs are quicker and easier.

You say each new discovery is like a handjob to you? I think you must have a bad case of blue balls then man. I can't remember the last scientific discovery that I really gave more than a mildy interested glance.

>>3128913
>>3128919
I don't mean to be a buzzkill, but the brain dies when you're frozen. So you won't be dreaming forever, you'll be dead unless they bring you back.

Also most of those cryogenic facilities are pretty unsanitary in the first place.

>>3128919
>>3128913
Well that's just the thing; nobody knows what the experience of being placed in suspended animation is like, since nobody has yet been revived from such a state.

Though it seems it should be a painless, sleep-like state, I'd be rather hesitant to commit myself to what might turn out to actually be some sort of eternal and unspeakably horrible "I have no mouth and I must scream sort" of thing.

>>3128935
Blowjobs are quicker and easier. Prostitutes are quicker and easier than relationships. Your hand is quicker and easier than prostitutes.

Also I meant metaphorically. Being in touch with scientific work or labs makes me feel like I'm accomplishing though. When I see people who aren't, I can't help but secretly loathe them all a little for being weak or lacking any resolve.

Don't get me wrong OP, blind hedonism is fun and all, but it's empty and fleeting too. You're not really ever accomplishing anything and you're basically wasting whatever possibilities you had. It's kind of shallow and depressing to think of ending up like that, no offense.

>>3128958
Also OP, about hedonism. You want a wife and family huh? But wouldn't prostitution be easier than all the stress having a wife causes? What if she cheats or your kids hate you and you need counseling?

Wouldn't it be better and more hedonistic to just be some 50 year old single playboy picking up girls half his age for a night of meaningless sex?

>>3128934

You would regret spending time with your family? Someone in that dynamic must be a real asshole.

Regardless, the principle is the same. You'd lament that you didn't have more pleasure. Since sex and drugs and thrill seeking are more immediate and easier to achieve means to pleasure, then why not prioritise their pursuit above all else?

You might really, REALLY like the thrill of scientific discovery, but how often does that happen? It's like saying I really, REALLY like the thrill of skydiving, but only going skydiving one every few decades.

Unless you actually care about what's inside fossilized T-Rex droppings and other small 'discoveries'...

>>3128943

I sort of guessed that. What about vitrification? That seems to make the tissue retain its structure and shape, without damage.
It's basically the same thing as dying, but at least I have a chance of living in the future.

If I could do anything I'd create massive, universe-spanning factories that create biofactories to give birth to and then rape women. Intellectual rape, physical rape, I wouldn't stop until every molecule from every dimension would be devoted to rape. These factories would expand at the same rate as the universe to create an eternity of self-replicating rape.

>>3128997
> Intellectual rape
You'd force them to read /sci/?

You monster!

>>3128985
Would you live a life full of regretting what you could have done with your life? Drugs and thrill-seeking are for fratboys, they leave me feeling shallow and like I'm desperately trying to fit in. Sex is fine, but it's all just runaway endorphines and brain chemistry. It feels really great, but what is it really accomplishing for me? Just pleasure and emotional bonding with some girl that I love? I like it, but once it's over with and I've finished up and don't feel like doing it anymore, the pleasure is finished and I just wasted about an hour of my time being unproductive.

I like being intellectually stimulated more, I guess mindlessly simple things just aren't as fun to me. Learning and discovery make me feel entertained and happy. I'd rather play a game or read a book than do most drugs, because they don't interest me. The only ones that do are hallucinagens.


You're a pretty diehard traditionalist by the way. Trying to act as though hedonism AND family are the things people should be wanting, when one gets in the way of the other most of the time. Why bother with either when any heroin addict will tell you that heroin mops the floor with both. You're depriving yourself of completely diving into hedonism by NOT becoming a heroin addict, in fact. My cousin is/was one, and he loved it until he was arrested and put in rehab.

>>3128989
I'd work on some other means. I don't know enough about vitrification, but with things like freezing, you're basically hoping for someone to bring your frozen corpse(or head) back to life. It's better than nothing, though.

>>3128958
>>3128905

If that is how you feel, then all is well in this world of hedonism.

People like you find progressing the rest of us as your own form of hedonism, so it all evens out with the rest of us who do not like thinking so much.

Hedonism as a life philosophy is secure.

>>3128974

Any accomplishments I achieve may indeed benefit humanity, but since I'll most likely be dead in the next 50 or so years, why should I give a fuck?

Lying on my deathbed, after 50 years of blowjobs and weed and wacky adventures, I highly doubt I'd look back and say "Damn, I really wish I'd invented a car that emits 20% less carbon monoxide."

>>3128980

Yep. Or as close to it as you can reasonably achieve.

>>3128989
I'd recommend giving up on your corporeal body as a means of achieving immortality, and going more for preserving your mind alone.

Uploading/copying the mind to a computer will probably be possible in our lifetime, whereas true biological immorality probably won't be.

>>3129034
I never said anything about benefiting humanity. I only want to benefit myself directly, so I guess it is a sort of hedonism. I do prefer to think of it as a more refined form of hedonism though. The only sciences I'm interested in are biology or chemistry anyway. Frankly, I just don't want to die. I would waste my entire life trying to stop myself from dying on the off-chance it worked, rather than honestly enjoy it in more base ways.

I will admit I would probably find whacky adventures entertaining if they didn't end up injuring or killing me somehow, though. It'd mostly be from a "Look what I did!" thing, than from the pure pleasure associated with it. I can't logically find much purpose in a life like that, or in a traditional setting. I'd rather have both though, but that's because I'm emotionally whipped right now.

I think there's probably some subconscious feelings of inadequacy that make me fixated on things like "immortality" and not trying not to die, though. In any case, those are my two cents on humanity. Mentally and morally I don't like the concept of death, especially happening to someone as selfish as me.

I understand that more complicated things than mere sex or drugs can provide pleasure, but if you are doing these things solely for the sake of pleasure regardless, then the principle is the same.

If you are doing them out of the belief that they are actually significant markers of superiority that will actually contribute to society however, then I suggest you are engaging in an act of futility, because, being pragmatic? In the 50 or so years you have left? I really don't think you'd achieve much of anything.

>>3129041
But that's death. A copy of me would survive and that would defeat the purpose of it. The only reason I'd upload myself is because I would know myself well enough to know it would somehow resurrect the actual me, probably cryogenically frozen somewhere. I don't know how people can consider an identical copy of themselves immortality for anything but the copy.

>>3129051

No one wants to die, no matter what they might tell you.

>>3129051
http://www.hplusmagazine.com/articles/forever-young/manhattan-beach-project-end-aging-2029

http://www.sens.org/sens-research/research-themes

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3329065877451441972#

http://www.nature.com/news/2010/101128/full/news.2010.635.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/nov/28/scientists-reverse-ageing-mice-humans

>>3129058
If everyone thought like that nothing would ever have been done scientifically and we'd all deserve to be wiped out as a species. Hell, we'd be exactly like the Amish, only with more STDs and stillborn babies.

>>3129059
The point is that being frozen kills you too. When the biological processes of your body cease, you are dead, regardless of whether those processes may be restarted centuries in the future.

If your frozen body is revived, it would be no more "you" than a digital copy of your mind. If there's any sort of soul or other such metaphysical component of your life, it would have departed the moment you froze to death in the cryogenics facility.

Isn't hedonism just the act of pursuing that which makes you happy?

So if one guy likes hookers, and one guys a family man, and one guy's a kissless scientists, aren't they all hedonists, in their own way?

Just a thought.

>captcha: howlem Behavior.

OP we will never stop the universe from degrading into nothing and creating a state of infinite-zero entropy.

feelsbadman.jpg

>>3129080
>If there's any sort of soul or other such metaphysical component of your life, it would have departed the moment you froze to death in the cryogenics facility.
Lucky there is no soul or metaphysical aspect of your consciousness.

We load our minds into giant automatically-maintained superservers and do whatever we want forever due to subjective time.

Personally, I just want to fuck around in my own version of TRON. Once I can do that, fuck you guys I'm out.

>>3129065

I disagree, we have the society we have today because the society we had even just over 100 years ago was pretty shit. A shit environment is a huge incentive to improve it.

Today's environment however, depending on your country at least, is not shit. It's... OK. It's tolerable. It's good enough. Is there really any improvements that can realistically be made to it within your lifetime that you'd be willing to spend decades of your life implementing?

>>3129090
Widespread consumer robots that eliminate household chores and other menial labor, allowing us all to dedicate ourselves to pursuits of the mind.

>>3129094

>>3129090
Also, technology that can rearrange material at the atomic level and create nearly anything we could ask for, given the right raw resources.

>>3129084
not strictly, it means pursuing pleasure

and happiness and pleasure might not be quite the same, depending on how we define them and what we believe about them.
inb4 semantic argument

>>3129090
>>3129094
>>3129098
>>3129100
What they said. But yeah, that and life extension. also think of how many people would become slaves to the government if unlimited life extension were a reality! There's definitely an economic value to that sort of thing.

>>3129101
Well in any case, each of those people are doing what they want to do, and are seeking out the things that give them pleasure. Guy A just wants sex so he hire the hooker. Guy B wants a normal family life for whatever reason, so he gets married and has kids. Guy C is in it for the SCIENCE, so he masturbates furiously at night and does science by day.

Each of these people are seeking the things that bring them pleasure. I think it's a mistake to think of hedonism as orgy parties and drugs all the time, but if that brings someone pleasure, they are being hedonistic, just as much as someone who asks a woman to marry him is being hedonistic.

>>3129051

What would you do with immortality then? More research I presume?

Does it really matter though? I consider myself to be fairly reasonable and a realist, and I do keep my pulse on the scientific world. I am aware of the research into immortality that exists. My prognosis? Not good. Well, not good enough, as the case may be. I have severe doubts that it would ever be made available in our lifetime.

Seems to me you that you're really just wasting your time. If you enjoy scientific discovery so much, try something a bit more grounded, something marketable.

>mfw this thread
Seeking eternal life is fundamentally incompatible with a truly hedonistic philosophy.

On a long enough timeline, you will have inevitably experienced every sensation available to the human mind to the point that they become mundane and boring. At that point, to continue avoiding death is to deny yourself that one last sensation you had never previously experienced.

>...So now what?

We stop working and play forever.

>>3129090
>Is there really any improvements that can realistically be made to it within your lifetime that you'd be willing to spend decades of your life implementing?

Too many to list, people who are content with what we have now might as well be dead.

Immortality would be cool, just because I want to make sure I get to know the ending of the story.

If humans figure out how to circumvent or escape the end of the universe, then I'll be around to see. If we go extinct before then or we don't figure it out, then I'll die anyways in the heat death. I guess there's no such thing as immortal in this universe, so for us to achieve true immortality we're going to have to figure out how to get around the whole entropy problem.

lol you guys are all talking about "The Virtue of Selfishness" by A. Rand, aren't you?

>>3129116
What's the point of anything if you're just going to die though? Might as well keep on hoping for a break.

Also I'm not physically enrolled in any jobs involving things like clinical immortality or things like that. I doubt there's any money in something like that, so I just study up on it in my spare time and look at the research reports and go through up-to-date medical things since I need to anyway.

As for immortality, I'd settle for being a brain in a jar that can only communicate with yes/no responses if that was my only option. Life seems pointless if you die. It's like losing at a universal game.

>>3129094

Robots that are complex enough to recognise dust, stains, rubbish, bad odours, which being aware of all the different cleaning techniques and the amount of force that should be applied when using those techniques (you need to be more careful dusting a vase for instance), and being mobile enough to move about a house and effectively utilise cleaning utensils, power sources, mass production, safety...

You'd be a wrinkly old sack of cancer by then I think.

>>3129100

In our lifetimes? No.

>>3129119
granting immortality seems like a perfect way to create nihilistic psychopaths

>>3129119
Ah, but then you're enjoying the masochism of it all and reveling in being SO EDGY. Also, you'd be far better off than that guy who died after living for 80 years, because you literally experienced exponentially more.

>>3129155
LIVING nihilistic sociopaths, mind you. Besides, we already have plenty of nihilistic sociopaths walking among us all today.

>>3129153
OP doesn't keep up with new robotics tech too much, huh?

New advances are being made all the time and there's no sign of it slowing. Robots are the future, yo. A Japanese company is prototyping a series of robots that collectively perform menial household chores like cleaning dishes and doing laundry. The tech already exists. The next step is getting the bugs worked out and the cost down, and we'll be seeing robot helpers in every household.

>>3129169
Humanity will finally be able to survive just by thinking and bossing robots around to do things for us. Just think... in the future, people will consider using a dishwasher difficult and time-wasting labor.

>>3129119

What if you could reach into your brain and erase your memory of having done something, so that you could experience it anew?

>>3129128

Name 5 genuinely awesome new things that will appear in every Western household within the next 10 years. New, mind, not improved or updated.

Does it matter anyway? Killing yourself out of boredom after living 500 billion years of bliss doesn't invalidate those 500 billion years.

>>3129179
Yep. It's gonna be rad. As long as too many people don't get retarded lazy, it'll be gravy. But even if they do, they need to afford their robot helpers somehow, and since the ditch digging work is gonna be all dried up, people will have to start becoming intellectually productive members of society to make more than a mediocre living.

>>3129182

Fucked up the ordering of that post. Well, you get it I'm sure.

>>3129169

I know all about these pieces of shit that can pick up sponges and wipe things. I am not impressed. I remain on the position that we'll all be far too old and riddled with Alzhiemers to give a shit when it happens.

>>3129182
From your viewpoint death invalidates everything. There is nothing after or before you die. Unless science discover some sort of kooky unlikely afterlife or something.

>>3129194
The irony of saying that, OP, is that when you're that old you'll probably be relying on those orbots.

>>3129198
Think of it this way OP. If you died suddenly, would yesterday matter?

>>3129203
Nobody knows.

Only one way to find out, really.

>>3129198

No, no, no, I don't think death invalidates what we do, but the opposite. If we compare what we do and the effect that we have on the world with the fact that we will die, we can identify and weed out that which prevents us from living a fulfilling life.

A deadline is a very good reminder to not waste time.

>>3129200

Maybe. Maybe not. Regardless, that deals with household chores, and a few other menial things. There's still plenty of other bullshit problems to have to put up with in life.

>>3129203

I believe that good memories matter. I think that when you die, then nothing matters. So my belief would effectively change upon my death.

let the feast of 1000 hams begin.

i have successfully derailed this thread. you may thank me now.

Create a new universe to explore.

Create a ringworld. Enjoy being God. Look at the stories of those living on it.. It's endless fun.

Create a Ringworld, enjoy the tales of those who live on it. Be a God. Get bored and cloak yourself as a mortal. Erase your memories and do it again. There is so much to do.

I'd probably get myself a nice little spacehouse overlooking a supernova, and just stay there all day err day, doping myself up on magic awesome pills, fucking my robotic sex doll, and playing the vidya. Good times, good times.

put myself in high school virtual world and bang teen pussy until my brain dies

have sex with teeny girls in a virtual high school world

>>3128593
This, in my opinion, would be the ultimate dystopia. If there are no problems to solve, no issues to pursue, then what is the purpose of living? If everything has been done, why must we live on? I strongly think that there is an infinite amount of things to learn, and hopefully we will never come across this type of situation.

>>3131237
actually, with real tenny girls, fuck virtual reality

>>3128593
>>even the creation of artificial worlds
Then lets make a new world, shall we? Like in minecraft, when you exhaust the resources of one world, when it becomes too easy, just make a new world!

>>3131259
oh wow.

Your existential crisis isn't my concern luckily. Here's something though: humanity knowing all technology doesn't mean *you* do. And even if you gain personal understanding of all technology, we're never going to run out of universe to explore.

We would watch Terrence Malick movies.

I think blacks would either eventually die out or evolve into whites. They're really just too stupid and violenct to be allowed to continue to exist in a civilisation that wants to advance.

>>3128704

Have you just described God?

Humanity will become a loving, throbbing God to our ancestors.. oh yes..

Expand and consume the rest of the universe and all known realities until they too are like us, obviously.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture