/sci/ - Science & Math

...'Now'?

While I fear for the social consequences that these children may endure as they age, I think the golden nugget in this article is that the child (boy) chooses to play with a variety of what we would consider feminine items. Scientifically speaking this has no claim because of the immeasurable amount of uncontrolled variables surround the children.

BUT as a case experiment I think it will be very interesting. I believe that as the children hit puberty and their body's chemical make up changes substantially their preferences may change as well. If they don't then that is in itself meaningful.

What if our gender role is defined by the pressures of society?

>>3126996

>What if our gender role is defined by the pressures of society?

They are.

>>3126996

I'm not really an expert on this topic given that behavioral psychology isn't really "science" as I prefer to interpret the term, but aren't gender roles a product of evolution?

Kids need to go to school, and 5 year olds do not get to decide if they want to or not.

The parents are terrible people and will undoubtedly raise (at least) 3 terrible children.

Imagine being "storm" a number of years from now and hearing about what happened... that is, if you haven't already hung yourself for having the name storm

>the baby's name is storm

what the fuck is with parents and retarded names.

fucking hollywood and media making people retarded

>>3127035

The other kid's names are Jazz and Kia, and you think "Well those are a little better" but guess what THEY'RE BOTH GIRLS

It's like a Boy Named Sue all over again except the parents aren't doing it to make the kids tough, they are just SA-level faggots.

>>3127053
Actually they're both boys but they "explore" genders.

>>3127035
>Kids need to go to school, and 5 year olds do not get to decide if they want to or not.
Oh, are you in for a surprise.

>Witterick practices unschooling, an offshoot of home-schooling centred on the belief that learning should be driven by a child’s curiosity. There are no report cards, no textbooks and no tests. For unschoolers, learning is about exploring and asking questions, “not something that happens by rote from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. weekdays in a building with a group of same-age people, planned, implemented and assessed by someone else,” says Witterick. The fringe movement is growing. An unschooling conference in Toronto drew dozens of families last fall.

>The kids have a lot of say in how their day unfolds. They decide if they want to squish through the mud, chase garter snakes in the park or bake cupcakes.

http://www.unschooling.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unschooling

These kids do whatever the fuck they want, and will never go to school unless they want to.

>>3127053
both boys*

kio is definitely different but it doesnt make you say "what kind of gigantic faggot named their kid that?"

also i dont know what SA means

>>3127069
Something Awful, I assume.

>>3127035
Behavioral Psychology is science. The issue is that psychology involves an immeasurable amount of variables. Its much harder to run a 'pure' experiment.
>>3127010
You are very narrow minded and appear to be incapable of seeing past what we have all been told "should" be.

>>3127066
Why is this bullshit legal? Most of these kids will be completely lost throughout life because they have no schooling.

>>3127069

Whoops, sorry, yeah.

I meant to say NEITHER of them are chicks. Whoops.

Jazz I can actually see as a weird but valid girl's name since I remember a pro wrestling chick named Jazz but I don't think I've ever heard Kio outside of the context of King of Fighters.

>>3127077
I'm assuming you got your quotes backwards and are not lecturing me on what is or isnt a science... in which case:

I don't really give a fuck what anybody says a person should do with his life, but that person SHOULD be schooled, especially in the younger years.
Parents who take that away from their children are terrible people.

And finally, I think it's ridiculous that they can give a name that the kid almost certainly will not appreciate when they grow up and get bullied, just so they can make some stupid hippie as statements

So what do people refer to Jazz during a conversation? "Yeah you know (him/her), he's always been a good...uhh..kid."

>>3127092
It's technically home schooling. I'm not sure how to forbid this without sending all of home schooling with it. Perhaps mandatory testing on a regular basis, with mandatory public education for those who fail to meet some set standard?

>>3127106
They'd probably just use his name. "Jass is a good kid, Jazz's socks, etc".

>>3127106
Jazz is the kid (STORM)'s brother

the only conversation arrising from STORM goes something like "What kind of complete retards name a kid STORM and keep his sex a secret?"

>>3127008

I guess that's why little boys are mowing the lawn along side their dads with toy lawn mowers before they can even talk, right?

Quit being so butt hurt, lady.

>>3127106

It's Storm that's the mystery-box gender kid.

I think it's a girl because I remember meeting a hot stripper chick named Storm once.

Oh and also Ororo Monroe is Storm and she's a chick.

>>3127115
>his sex
I mean... It's sex

>>3127066

>>3127122

Eir sex.

E, eir, emself

>>3127140
LOL
Why is that so damn funny compared with that picture? I could even hear it in his voice.

>>3127077

>You are very narrow minded and appear to be incapable of seeing past what we have all been told "should" be.

Holy shit does your brain just get flash-irradiated by the man once you get your new age shrink diploma?

>>3127066
OH GOD WHAT

>>3127100
I AGREE that children should be schooled. But rather than get anal and ballistic at what these parents are doing, observe and take note.

* The children can change their name when they get older.
* The children are playing with what they find appealing. Rather than their father saying, "Don't play with that son. You look like a faggot." They are allowing children to enjoy the things that innately appeal to them.
* I would never do this with my children, but they have chosen to.

>>3127166
>The children can change their name when they get older.
I suppose so, but they still have to go through their young life being taunted... that is, if they meet other people
>Don't play with that son. You look like a faggot
Obviously I don't condone that either.
>I would never do this with my children, but they have chosen to.
My biggest problem with all this is that they (the parents) don't suffer anything... they even get media attention for it...
It's the children, who aren't even old enough to understand, who get hurt.

>>3127193
>My biggest problem with all this is that they (the parents) don't suffer anything... they even get media attention for it...
It's the children, who aren't even old enough to understand, who get hurt.

The parents getting media attention is irrelevant. They did the same thing (minus the genderless aspect) to their two younger children prior to the media coverage.

You are also assuming that the children will be "hurt". There is the possibility that these children may become social freaks and be shunned by society. But there is also the more likely conclusion that eventually these kids will inevitably want to go to school and do what all the other children are doing. If they do not they may ask their parent to teach them normally.

While the parents are allowing their children freedom of control that makes most people cringe, the children themselves may develop an emotionally strong sense of self.

We CANNOT assume that these children's lives will spiral into an eternal depth of agony and suffering. Because we do not know.

>>3127229
>While the parents are allowing their children freedom of control that makes most people cringe, the children themselves may develop an emotionally strong sense of self.
>We CANNOT assume that these children's lives will spiral into an eternal depth of agony and suffering. Because we do not know.
Oh yeah, you're a child psychologist.

Permissive parenting has been done before.

>>3127246
I am not a child psychologist. I am merely a person who reads. Link me to a study on permissive parenting.

If you did that rather than rage then maybe I'll agree with you?

Obviously not controlled enough to be an experiment, but the results of it all should be interesting.

There are a lot of experiments that are either looked down upon or downright forbidden that really should be performed and explored.

Throws you back to cases like David Reimer; born male, lost his penis during circumcision, was raised as a girl, and ultimately became male and killed himself. Gender is so fascinating.

>>3127229
You can't really assume the children will grow up to be normal...

I think it's reasonable to think they won't develop normally; socially or intellectually, though I suppose I don't REALLY know what I'm talking about...

>>3127229

Not having a parent that provides any kind of direction is frightening to a child. It's very scary to be a small child, knowing nothing, and being in control.

They give the kids too much freedom.

As for time telling, I don't know. Children are certainly not capable of deciding their own destiny. When a child decides their own academic schedule it consists of exactly the kind of shit they describe them doing; art, games, general fucking around.

I'm telling you. Not only will these kids be more scarred by the social rejection that comes from being a boy-girl being raised by the most liberally retarded people on the planet than any kind of positive benefit they could get from "being themselves" but they'll also be probably far behind their peers academically.

tl;dr Pussification, in all its various forms, is destroying this society. Imagine a country populated by sackless men, taught to worship women and despise themselves because they've been made to think of themselves as potential rapist and child molesters by virtue of the fact that they have a penis.

>>3127229

Go turn on your stove and then run your cheek against the coils once they're red hot.

Hey man, it won't hurt.

The world's not that kind of place, right?

>>3127288
Also:

I, like 90% of other people, did not enjoy school until... maybe highschool. Of course I'm glad I went through it, but if given the choice at the time maybe I would have said no, and never go anywhere with my life, because theoretical me had hippie fuck parents...

>>3127293
These guys seems more like hippies than radical feminists.

>>3127293
Everything you said up until the end was good. Then your clear biased towards liberals, gays, and anything that breaks your norm became apparent.
These kids will not be like your kids. It also doesn't mean they will be gay. We cannot assume anything. As I said earlier, I wouldn't do this to my children. But they are. So as SCIENTISTS we should observe what occurs.
>>3127294
You are comparing certainty to uncertainty and expecting the same results.
>>3127303
I share this concern with you all as well. I think if anything this will have the most greatest impact on the children's lives. But we can only observe. Raging and insulting the parents won't make them change what they have already decided to do.

>>3127293

>Imagine a country populated by sackless men, taught to worship women and despise themselves because they've been made to think of themselves as potential rapist and child molesters by virtue of the fact that they have a penis.

I hate to look like I'm OP samefagging, but holy shit dude seriously check out the Something Awful forums if you want to see what that would look like. Sometime during '07 the insane fat girls took over because apparently Zack Parsons was actually wearing Neuticles the whole time it looked like he had balls and now it's just...Ugh it's so fucking depressing.

Even SUGGEST that not all accused rapists are actually rapists, I'm not kidding I swear to God this is enough to set 95 percent of them off, and watch them fucking descend on you like you just personally accused all women including your mother of being slut bitch whores.

So much ignorance...

Of those parents
On this board
In this world

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

There's a reason why humans are so incredibly dimorphic...

>>3127355

>You are comparing certainty to uncertainty and expecting the same results.

You are a naive jackass. There is no uncertainty. I am empirically stating that there is literally zero (Not statisically insignificant but non-zero, fucking ZERO) chance that these kids won't have it ten times harder than normies the minute they step into any form of society not involving their immediate relatives.

I know. You know it.

The LORD knows it.

I'm also curious, do you consider the premise of the song A Boy Named Sue to be an example of brilliant, paradigm-shifting parenting?

>>3127370
homo sapiens is the least sexually dimorphic of the great apes. the evolutionary trend has been towards decreased dimorphism (compare with "Lucy")

>>3127355

I have no bias toward gays whatsoever. I have some gay friends and I treat them no differently than my other friends. Parents should accept their kids for what they decide they are but this is different. This doesn't feel like acceptance it feels like a program.

>>3127370

Well the important thing is you found a way to feel superior to all of them.

>>3127387

you're trolling right...

>>3127382
>"The LORD knows it."

/thread
This is no longer about /sci.
Evening ladies and gents.

>>3127426

Not samefag. It was sarcasm and you know it.

When you don't have a retort, be a fucking man and admit it.

Christ, you're fucking pathetic.

>>3127444
don't call christ pathetic, he did his best.

>>3127387
>homo sapiens is the least sexually dimorphic of the great apes
That would be gibbons.

>>3127459
In the end he still got crucified no?

>>3127406

Well the important thing is you found a way to feel superior to me by ripping off xkcd.

I'm putting down $20 that Storm ends up a stripper. Uneducated and with a name like that, plus there's definitely going to be some backlash from having such an unconventional sexual upbringing.

>normal people actually think 4chan is counterculture
>this thread

sure is conformist in here

>>3127509

REAP THE FUCKING WHIRLWIND

>>3127566

We recognize that some 'conformist' things have their place.

I mean shit bro, almost everything on earth BREATHES

You gonna CONFORM to that biological role!?

HOLD YOUR BREATH MAN SHOW THEM WHO'S A GENIUS

>>3127628

haha

no, it's that a big argument is "these kids will be made fun of"

yeah, that's right, 4chan... appealing to social pressure to justify their arguments.

pretty funny to me

>>3127665

We could deal with it because, apart from /b/, we're mostly upper middle class white boys with above 125 I.Q.'s who's parents were way too supportive of them, giving us a sense of arrogance that made our self-esteem impregnable to assault by every subnormal through our developing years who we instinctively filed under the tab of 'lesser mind'.

We're not the norm. We're a very very very special (:3) subset of people that, while intelligent and agile on the internet, cannot really function as a normal human being in society.

Try to remember what you went through and then amplify that by the power of Storm the mystery heshe.

Yeah.

They're probably gonna turn into serial killers dude.

>hurr durr kidz not goan 2 schooll gonn b ratartad

At least one of the parents is a teacher. The older child is five years old and is writing poetry to some capacity. Lots of kids show up to their first day of school barely knowing how to read or do any math.. I'm sure the parents will be able to keep their kids educated beyond public school standards for their ages for quite a few years, although the kids will 'have' to decide to go to school at some point.

I do agree that 'Storm' is a bit hollywood. To me, Jazz is a bit odd for a wiener, but that might just be because I knew a girl named Jaz (and it certainly didn't alienate her, if anything the opposite).

>>3127748

>mfw her name was probably Jazmine and just was called Jaz as a nickname

>>3127778

Her legal name was Jaz.

>yfw your face is a nonexistent probability

>>3127035
Exactly! Those kids are going to be seriously handicapped in so many ways.

>>3127748
>at least one parent is a teacher
Did you happen to see what kind of school the parent teaches at? LOL.

>>3127789

o rly? Did she show you her birth certificate or something?

How is this fucking ethical?

>>3127035
>Kids need to go to school, and 5 year olds do not get to decide if they want to or not.

I learned more between 3 and 5 of mostly my own volition than I did between 6 and 10 in school.

Go back to the 1800s please.

>>3127833
Ethics? Really?
You're going to let ethics stop you from doing science?

>>3127092
But most kids that have HAD schooling are completely lost.

>>3127923

>>3127799

Oh you.

>>3127817

Nope but I'm sure you would have demanded to see it since you clearly have assburgers.

>>3127833

In what way is it unethical? Many parents do a much worse job at 'preparing' their children in the 'normal' sense if that's what you mean.

>>3127917

This. I guess it's just the background I came from. My parents taught me how to read, write, and do math, but did little to influence my personality before they sent me to school. Before I started school, they mostly let me do my own thing, and I was a typical curious kid, I liked to take apart things in the house. As simple as that seems, it set me up to do things outside of school that, when I got to college, allowed me to cruise through the first.. maybe three years of an electrical engineering degree. All that I learned in public school was social stuff, which is of course incredibly important- that's the first thing I would be worried about with these kids.

>>3127293
>It's very scary to be a small child, knowing nothing, and being in control.

Nope, try again Prof. Projection.

>>3127382
>I am empirically stating that there is literally zero (Not statisically insignificant but non-zero, fucking ZERO) chance that these kids won't have it ten times harder than normies the minute they step into any form of society not involving their immediate relatives.

Is the same not true of your stereotypical nerd? So we should all raise our children to be jocks no?

>>3128011
lol'd at Prof. Projection. Gonna remember that one.
But I agree. The guy you replied to seems to mistake control and freedom with traumas.
To fear something is to at least partially understand it. Freedom and control are too abstract for a child to grasp, and thus, to really fear.
You're talking as if you're giving the kid the controls of a jetfighter.

Also - I agree with the experiment in a certain way. I like letting the child guide itself, and nurturing what it chooses, BUT - isolation is almost ALWAYS a bad idea psychologically at that age. It'll lead to much shit down the road.

And the gender thing? Sexuality is genetic so no much impact there. Gender roles? Really?

Show me a child brought up in a loving and accepting family, who has a fucking mental breakdown in his 30s because he's confused or confined. That's daft.

>>Storm
>>Kio

Had a neighbor who named her children, "Heavenly" and "Tigerlily".

Probably one of the worst people I've ever had the misfortune of meeting. She was from New Zealand.

By the way, that article seems to be written by a woman who's mad she didn't think up Twilight.

I fucking hate smarmy articles who try to pass of as prose.

>>3128069

>Heavenly Tigerlilly

That was Michael Hutchenson dude.

Mistify was good I guess.

>>3128055

To be clear, I'm using you and me as the baseline for 'normie'.

THAT'S how bad they're going to fucking get it.

>>3128104
What?

Are you saying she took the names from like a movie or something?

>>3128117

INXS you tool. They were a New Zealand band that put out a few hits. The lead singer Hutchenson ended up accidentally erotically asphyxiating himself to death while in the cusp in their career in cambodia or thailand or some chinknigger shithole, but not before having a daughter and naming her Heavenly Tigerlilly.

>>3126839

This is completely absurd

Jazz is going to have a fucking stroke when he hits puberty and grows a beard and gets a deep masculine voice

>>3128169
lol'd
surprised nobody said this sooner

>>3128150
WELLLLL I guess I know where she got the names then. :U

What a whore.

>>3128061
>I like letting the child guide itself, and nurturing what it chooses, BUT - isolation is almost ALWAYS a bad idea psychologically at that age. It'll lead to much shit down the road.

There is probably truth to that, however it doesn't seem like the kids ARE isolated from what's in that article. It's not like going to school is the only form of social interaction children can have.

>And the gender thing? Sexuality is genetic so no much impact there. Gender roles? Really?

Say what you will but you can't deny that people treat girls and boys differently. Their goal is to try to remove as much influence from that as they can on their children's forming identities.

>Storm was named after whipped winds and dark rain clouds, because they are beautiful and transformative.

This sounds like new-age hippie bullshit

>>3128169
Except he doesn't think he's a girl, he just likes wearing dresses.

>On a recent trip to High Park, Jazz, wearing pink shorts, patterned pink socks and brightly coloured elastics on his braids, runs and skips across the street.

>“That’s a princess!” says a smiling crossing guard, ushering the little boy along. “And that’s a princess, too,” she says again, pointing at Kio with her big red sign.

>Jazz doesn’t mind. One of his favourite books is 10,000 Dresses, the story of a boy who loves to dress up. But he doesn’t like being called a girl.

>>3127293
>Pussification, in all its various forms, is destroying this society. Imagine a country populated by sackless men, taught to worship women and despise themselves because they've been made to think of themselves as potential rapist and child molesters by virtue of the fact that they have a penis

How did this come in play? Really? Also facts supporting this? Are there? Is this even true?

>>3128226

That's perfectly fine

But he's going to grow up to be a complete fag and is going to be tormented and bullied until the end of his days and his parents will not be able to protect him when his head is being stomped all over the concrete

Besides once he gets older and learns more about the world he realize what his parents did to him and how badly it's fucked him up

Mite b cool.

>>3128191

To your first point. Socializing is good in casual groups, but it's also good in school because it familiarizes the child with social structure. We are not a giant peace loving equal community, and it's best to help the child develop the defenses it will need in the future. Which brings me to my second point.

Forming their own identity. That is nigh impossible. NOTHING is you 100%, if you get right down to the bones of it. Everything you are is influenced by something else. All right, let's take a more moderate approach which is still daft, because what the parents strive for, some sort of ambiguous sense of freedom and choice, is something we all get, provided we have a nice support system (family and so on). I'll say it again, as long as you get love, understanding and wisdom from your parents - you won't wake up one day and cry because you weren't given a choice when you were 8 which gender you are.

What these children most likely WON'T have is a thick skin. That means, that they will have the psychological equivalent of an immune system to that of Bubble Boy. How can parents train them against prejudice, when they can't mention their genders.

It is doomed to fail, simply because, the parents view of what should be, is very far of from what is. And their children will live in what is. Maladapted, unprepared, as raw and vulnerable as a babe in the woods. All thanks to a dangerous extremism, in the name of "freedom" and "choice" without analysing the implications properly.

I wish we did live in a world where all this didn't matter, but we don't. And those kids will find that out, the hard way. I hope it won't break them.

>>3128231
America to certain extents is going that direction, though this article has nothing to do with it.

I mean looking at girls when they don't want you (you in particular that is) to can now be a form of sexual harassment. At the current rate your son will be sitting in the lunchroom in high school and get hit with a sexual harassment charge because a girl showed the guy next to him her tits.

>>3128251
>Besides once he gets older and learns more about the world he realize what his parents did to him and how badly it's fucked him up

One thing though, that's a purely subjective. The fucking Scots wear fucking skirts with no problem.

For you all you know this kid's going to grow up and wreck the bullies while wearing a dress. NOW who's fucked up?

>>3127444
sarcasm on the internet is fucking retarded

its not easy to detect here you fucking faggot

>>3127716
>IQ
>intelligence

Pick 1.

>>3128285

IT'S A KILT

But I see your point he may very well "wreck" bullies as he gets older

But I meant when he's in his 20s and 30s in a prejudice society he's going to discriminated against

I used to have long hair past my shoulders that I tied into a pony tail and I certainty had trouble because of it, simply because as a male I wasn't meant to have long hair.

Now in scotland wearing a kilt is perfectly fine, Jazz doesn't live in scotland. So unless he moves there he's going to have to wear pants or shorts eventually.

>>3128299
back to /b/ with you

>>3128061
>BUT - isolation is almost ALWAYS a bad idea psychologically at that age. It'll lead to much shit down the road.

Well that explains me, then.

>>3128251
>is going to be tormented and bullied until the end of his days and his parents will not be able to protect him when his head is being stomped all over the concrete

I'd be going insane over how people can do such things.

kill all humans

>>3128268
>NOTHING is you 100%, if you get right down to the bones of it. Everything you are is influenced by something else

You know very well I was not implying anything contrary to that. What they're doing is equivalent to atheists NOT sending their kids to bible camp, just on a less questioned front.

>What these children most likely WON'T have is a thick skin. That means, that they will have the psychological equivalent of an immune system to that of Bubble Boy. How can parents train them against prejudice, when they can't mention their genders.

Varies person to person anyways. I could just as easily bring up the opposite end of the spectrum; that people who are constantly interacting with their peers become reliant on their peers' acceptance. The result of that is of course people who give into peer pressure easily.

Also where does it say the parents forbid the kids from mentioning their identity? The article only said that if people call the boys girls the parents don't correct them and leave it up to the kids if they want to correct them.

>>3128338

We've been doing it since the cave man days it's human nature

But that's another topic for another thread

>>3128318
There are plenty of guys with long hair though... it's just easier to conform.

So what, when he's in his 30s he'll give less of a shit than he does now.

>>3128354
Fuck human nature and fuck humans.

Fuck this shitty species.

There was a boy a while ago who his parents raised as a girl. He killed himself when he found out he was a boy when he started puberty...

>>3128372

You're right it is easier to conform

But long hair isn't the same as braids and a pink dress

It'll be up to little Jazz to decide if he wants to keep being a girl or if he wants to start acting manly

But he was born with a dick and he'll grow up to have masculine features, if he likes being feminine then when he gets older he should choose to have gender reassignment surgery

>>3128377

This reminds me of the serial killer Carl Panzram

>"I wish all mankind had one neck so I could choke it!"

Nice guy

>>3128269
Jesus Christ, you are a fucking idiot.

>>3128340
>>3128340
>You know very well I was not implying anything contrary to that. What they're doing is equivalent to atheists NOT sending their kids to bible camp, just on a less questioned front.

Yes I know, but from what I read in the article, it seems the parents should relocate to a less biased area. Children are mean to other children based on everything, gender doesn't play much into it. And adults...well...
Also, society isn't bible camp for atheists. As much bias and prejudice there is in the world, we've come some way from what it used to be.


>Varies person to person anyways. I could just as easily bring up the opposite end of the spectrum; that people who are constantly interacting with their peers become reliant on their peers' acceptance. The result of that is of course people who give into peer pressure easily.

Again - an intelligent, nurturing support system. Not parents who don't care and let their children become peer reviewed slaves. No child with a strong will, and intelligence will buckle under peer pressure (peer pressure always comes in when you're in with the wrong peers). So it's up to the parents to teach them how to pick their friends.

>Also where does it say the parents forbid the kids from mentioning their identity? The article only said that if people call the boys girls the parents don't correct them and leave it up to the kids if they want to correct them.

The kids don't understand what girls/boys are except genitelia I'm guessing. How can they = choose then? They have no idea what a girl or a boy is viewed as by society. They have no idea what they are either (anything beyond penis and vagina is a bit too abstract for their minds to contemplate on. So they can't make up the roles themselves).

>>3128414
Also - sexual identity comes in with puberty, before that children aren't sexual. As to which toys to play with, or which bathroom to go in - is stupid. Playing with dolls doesn't make you gay, or effeminate, nor does playing with cars make you butch and masculine. That has no impact on it whatsoever, so it's futile to mention it.

But once again I say, show me people who've been brought up in good families, who are broken down, or suffer, because they didn't get the freedom these parents want to give theirs.

>detailing his crimes and his nihilistic philosophy:

I always knew nihilists were fucked in the head.

>>3128455

Actually most serial killers are nihilistic

I've read a lot about them I can say that most of them are misanthropic, depressed, hateful people who loathe themselves the world and everyone and everything in it

They even hate the murders they commit to them it's never "satisfying" enough so they do it again and again and again and again until they feel better.

But that's another topic for another thread

so these kids can fucking do anything? like they can smear their shit on the walls as a way of expressing themselves?

>>3128393
>It'll be up to little Jazz to decide if he wants to keep being a girl or if he wants to start acting manly
But he's not being a girl, he's wearing a dress.

>But he was born with a dick and he'll grow up to have masculine features, if he likes being feminine then when he gets older he should choose to have gender reassignment surgery
Except that pink dresses aren't inherently feminine and has less than nothing to do with masculine features.

I don't even understand the question OP but if you're against boys wearing pink you're a brainwashed idiot.

>>3128570

Replace "girl" with feminine in the first sentence that was a mistake on my part

As for the second bit you're right pink dresses have nothing to do with masculine physical features however pink dresses are seen as a feminine object

But I still think as he gets older he'll be discriminated against and it'll be up to him to decide if he wants to be a unique little snow flake in a desert full of sand

>>3128414
>>3128415
>Also, society isn't bible camp for atheists. As much bias and prejudice there is in the world, we've come some way from what it used to be.

Sure it is. Why should boys wear pants? Because society said so. Why should we slaughter sheep to make up for thinking about vagina? Because god said so.

>Again - an intelligent, nurturing support system. Not parents who don't care and let their children become peer reviewed slaves. No child with a strong will, and intelligence will buckle under peer pressure (peer pressure always comes in when you're in with the wrong peers). So it's up to the parents to teach them how to pick their friends.

Wrong, peer pressure comes in with any peers. The only thing that changes is what they're pressuring you to do. However the point is that the spectrum of interaction can be negative at both ends.

>The kids don't understand what girls/boys are except genitelia I'm guessing. How can they = choose then? They have no idea what a girl or a boy is viewed as by society. They have no idea what they are either (anything beyond penis and vagina is a bit too abstract for their minds to contemplate on. So they can't make up the roles themselves).

What are girls/boys besides genitalia?

>>3128588
>Replace "girl" with feminine in the first sentence that was a mistake on my part
But he's not being feminine, he's wearing a dress.

>As for the second bit you're right pink dresses have nothing to do with masculine physical features however pink dresses are seen as a feminine object

Matter of opinion, it'll be this kid's choice if he gives a shit about people's opinion.

>But I still think as he gets older he'll be discriminated against and it'll be up to him to decide if he wants to be a unique little snow flake in a desert full of sand

That's true of any of us.

Parents experimenting with their wonky idealism on their children to gratify their snobbish sense of moral self-importance. Nothing new here.

Also, to fit the serial killer theme...

>>3128641

If wearing a dress isn't feminine then what its?

>>3128729
>then what [is it]?
Wearing a dress.

>>3128784

I meant "what is"

>>3128791
A matter of opinion.

>>3128627

>Sure it is. Why should boys wear pants? Because society said so. Why should we slaughter sheep to make up for thinking about vagina? Because god said so.

I'm sorry, but you sound like you live in an amish community. Calm down, and stop mistaking "should" for "must". And again, yes, society said so, but if you're intelligent and self assured, these things are bumps in the road, nothing more. If the child is dumb and weak - he'll get abused no matter what he wears. As for the lamb slaughter and vagina... yeah...

>Wrong, peer pressure comes in with any peers. The only thing that changes is what they're pressuring you to do. However the point is that the spectrum of interaction can be negative at both ends.

Pressure means they insist on something. Any group that insists on something you don't wanna do, you should get the fuck out of. Sorry. Again - parents should teach these things, and it comes with being self assured and having a mind of your own. That's why I've always picked my friends, not joined an already established group, and we still hang out years and years later and get along great.

>What are girls/boys besides genitalia?

So there's absolutely NO difference between genders to you? Not talking genitalia, I'm talking about the feminine and masculine mindset.These children understand neither. So where is the choice? Again, the article seems to imply that you somehow train your children in their gender role. You don't. They choose it themselves ANYWAY. If you feel like cross dressing, you'll god damn do it anyway, despite what you were taught as a kid, or, commit suicide one day if you were rigurously tought it was very wrong. ( Which a normal and supportive family wouldn't do. But that doesn't mean letting your children doing whatever they want is necessary)

>>3128930
This is gonna be my last reply, because you seem to think that all this exagerated extremist upbringing is somehow liberating, and ignore the fact that people who grow up in loving families, are functional and happy as adults. They didn't need the ultimate freedom or choice as children, just acceptance when they made their own choice (real god damn choice when puberty kicks in, not when you're the equivalent of psychological mush).

The basic rule of parenting a child between 1 and 8/9 is don't traumatize them, and love them. That's it. The fact that you dress a boy as a boy, has no impact whatsoever on his later choices when he discovers his sexuality. Same goes for a girl.

And for the last time, these parents are rearing their children according to THEIR version of what the world should be. It's not the real one, and the children will pay the price for it. A price they didn't choose to pay, because... wait for it... they're god damn children.