/sci/ - Science & Math

it's already terraformed

we can't even go there

0/5

Lacks magnetosphere. Enjoy your cancer.

2/5

>>3054901
meant 1/5

3/5

4/5

5/5

And a space elevator to keep the costs down.

Terraforming is not just about getting some ice asteroids to impact.
For example Mars is further away from the Earth, so to get a good high temperature for liquid water you will need a lot more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere but not so many as to start a runaway effect. You will basically have to completely control the climate and it's impossible to control a fundamentally chaotic system.

>>3054953
>greenhouse gases
in the permafrost and the polar caps

>control the climate
why?

>>3054989
See Venus

>>3054989
All we need here is a few NH3 comets to warm the planet up enough to sublimate some of the CO2 in the polar ice caps. That will cause moar atmosphere, and moar greenhouse. Everyone wins!

Also, runaway greenhouse effect here isn't a problem due to it's distance from the sun.

you small players.
you kiddies.
i terraformed planets even dryer than Mars...

>>3055125
Several millennia later, under the rule of his great-grandchild, the God Emperor Leto II, his dream came true, and the great ocean then covering much of Dune, was named the Kynes Sea in honour of him and his son, and their work.

Where would we get the extra air for the atmosphere? How much atmosphere can Mars hold without it leaking out into space?

>>3057002
What is it with people always afraid of martian atmosphere getting lost as soon as it forms?

Yes, Mars will slowly lose atmospheric gases, just like Earth does. But the process will still elave us some hundreds of thousands of years leeway to come up with something.

>>3057032
*leave

>>3057002
NH3 from comets. Turn CO2 in the atmosphere into potent CFCs, which warm it up enough to melt the polar ice caps. Mars has plenty of atmosphere and water; Problem is, most of it is locked up in the ice caps or in permafrost. Kickstarting a positive feedback effect with greenhouse warming can fix that.

Mar's atmosphere is currently bleeding off into space, albeit very slowly. If mars had an atmosphere comparable to earths right now, it would take hundreds of millions of years at least for it to all blow of. And anyway, humans could easily have the technology to put an artificial magnetosphere around mars in a few thousand years. Constant, lo level terraforming activities could work to maintain Mars's new atmosphere.

>>3057032
*waves wand*
>this will give us time to find another wand

>>3057072
Why does everyone think if we wave one wand that we can't wave another?

1. send a fleet of interstellar ships to Neptune to get water
2. bomb the surface of mars, creating a cloud of dust, preventing rapid evaporation
3. dump the water from neptune on a single area of the planet.
4. plant trees, the carbon from the bombs will feed the trees, producing oxygen.

done.

>>3057177
>1. send a fleet of interplanetary ships to Neptune to get water

>>3057187
Your right, neptune already has water. We should just go there.

>>3057032

The Earth keeps atmosphere much better because it has a magnetosphere caused by a spinning molton core.

Mars doesn't have a spinning molton core or a strong magnetosphere. Loses atmosphere a lot faster.

>>3057257
that's why an artificial magnetosphere is a good idea
even if we don't do that immediately, we have a few million years at the least to get one.

or we can just keep slowly replenishing it.

>>3057257
Fortunately, not fast enough that we can't replace it, if we have the tech to give it a significant atmosphere in the first place.

why not just chill the fuck out and live in biodomes
why would changing the entire planet be of much worthwhile benefit

>>3057319

Not dying painfully to a micro-meteorite puncturing the dome would be nice.

Also being able to go outside without spacesuits, or expand your town without having to build a whole new dome.

>>3057328
well how long and how many resources would you possibly need to terraform the whole of mars? and what's wrong with striving to make redundancies in the dome to keep them safer? and how often do asteroids hit mars that would have enough energy to break domes?

Rather than waste our time trying to remake another world to suit our bodies, we should remake our bodies to suit that world. Humanity is too weak to ever conquer space, but humanity's children?

>>3057377
>waste out time

>>3057328
>>3057377
Pic, but life also brings dynamism which is in short order on Mars today.

Funny thing, I've yet to see luddites here scream "STOP WRECKING MARS" like on some other boards.

>>3057301
>Artificial Magnetosphere

Oh fuck yea! We'd need to be at least a type 1 civilization, but that would be so fucking badass!

>>3057549
We can wreck Mars all we want, unless we find something living there. Then we have a moral dilemma. But it will be easier to mod us, than it will be to mod a whole planet. A few tweaks here and there wouldn't be so bad. Just find a way to keep our bones from atrophying in freefall and make us a bit more radiation resistant and you are set.

>>3057377
>>3057549
>>3057579

I don't see how you plan on modifying lungs to breath CO2 at less then .05 atmospheres. Liquid water literally cannot exist at those pressures, let alone the temperatures on mars. You'd have to either have to be a brain inside a robot, or change the atmosphere. Personally I would go with the latter.

>>3057729
We could do both. Terraform Mars just enough for liquid water to exist and adapt humans to live in those conditions.

Any questions to the feasibility of such a project?

>>3057744
How about we completely terraform mars, but modify humans to live in the not-quite-completely-terraformed transition stages on mars before it's done? Then everyone's happy, and we don't have to bother with expensive body modifications.
Not to mention the genetic engineering required for any other forms of terrestrial animal life to survive there. Really, once we get it going, there's not much point in stopping the process. We can just let the positive feedback loop with the martian ice caps melting do it's work and bam, we have two earths in our system.

>>3057789
Genetically modifying humans could have disastrous consequences, and I'm quite sure there'll be a big moral outcry about it. However modifying animals, plants and insects will be very helpful in aiding the soil development of Mars.

>>3057789
I doubt the atmosphere and climate will reach terran-level equilibrium on their own.

Also, we'll then need procedures to re-adapt the natives to terran norms, or we're gonna have a rebellion in our lap.

>>3057817
>Also, we'll then need procedures to re-adapt the natives to terran norms, or we're gonna have a rebellion in our lap.
FREE MARS

>>3057759
Oh lordy I found a face on Mars!

>>3057827

>>3057836

Even in a hundred years, Mars would just be a shit tier Earth.

>>3057839
Compelling argument good sir.

>>3057827
Martian Terraformer Union's motto:
>We have seen the face of the enemy, and he looks retarded.

>>3057801
Oh, definitely. After the atmosphere is thickened up a tad (Or even right now, actually), we could send genetically engineered microorganisms to produce oxygen or whatever special gas we need, and once they've helped the process along we can seed the place up with plants/insects etc.

>>3057817
Of course it isn't as simple as just melting the ice caps. We'd have to be regulating it, adding or subtracting gasses to work our influence. Solar shades/mirrors could be useful here, as well; Ice caps melting too much? Just throw a giant shade over it.

Mars is right there, next door, begging for us to come over and raise its temperature a few degrees.

You see, the reason why Mars is special is simply because of the difficulty of getting there. As you see, this same difficulty determines who gets to come to the new world. These people will likely be scientists and engineers, with some normal folk with large sums of money who can inject it into the local Martian economy. Who the children that they spawn grow up in a very educated environment and learn to appreciate the fruits and methods of science. Who will likely inherit their parents' fortunes, and fund research.

Mars will be the new Alexandrina, mark my words.

>>3057847
it exists actually, and they're Canadian.
http://terraformers.ca/
interesting site, btw

>>3057862
I shed a manly tear.
I hope I will at the least live long enough to see such a project started.

I see no reason to live on Mars rather than Earth. It has no liquid core allowing for constant bombardment from the Sun's radiation. There are no minerals available there that aren't on Earth for vastly cheaper. It wouldn't even be interesting to be there for any extended amount of time until it was more like Earth's society and environment.

But by all means, let's sink the rest of our money into manned missions and colonization for the select few rather than directly supporting technologies that matter.

>>3057872
I'm guessing you've seen my postings regarding life extension and the progress it has made?

>>3057894
I see no reason to live on the Americas rather than England. It has no stationed navy allowing for constant protection from the Indians. There are no minerals available there that aren't in our other mines for vastly cheaper. It wouldn't even be interesting to be there for any extended amount of time until it is more like civilized English society and environment.

>>3057894
A thick enough atmosphere and an ozone layer would solve most of the solar radiation problems. Also, do you know why the new world was settled in the 1600s?

>>3057864
O_O

Well I'll be a naked bear dipped in tar.

>>3057862
sauce of pic?

>>3057920
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2DNJOPMRKA

We can't even terraform our own planet. I'm not holding my breath.

It will be the most expensive homicide ever when we first decide to send some people to colonies Mars.

We'll have a permanent non-scientific presence on Mars when we're already using the entire Earth. I mean Antarctica, the Gobi desert, a good portion of the ocean, everything. It's all a much better idea that Mars, except for one thing:

The eggs-in-a-basket problem. We should have a small colony on Mars as insurance.

>>3057894
>I see no reason to leave my room and go outside. It has no solid walls allowing for constant bombardment from the Sun's visible radiation. There are no games available there that aren't on on my computer for vastly cheaper. It wouldn't even be interesting to be there for any extended amount of time until it was more like Modern Warfare and Warcraft.

>But by all means, let me sink the rest of my money into shoes and clothes for modesty rather than directly supporting pizza hut.

>>3057960
made me lol
great job anon

>>3057943
>We can't even terraform our own planet
>Implying we've tried
>Implying you know what terraforming is

>>3057945
A couple of small, self-sufficient, multiply-redundant and genetically extremely diverse bases.

>>3057915
Yes, Europe plundered the rich resources and fertile farmland of the Caribbean and Eastern Americas. By making that parallel example are you actually implying Mars is full of rich resources and fertile farmland for Earth?

>>3057916
>Life as we know it depends on our magnetic shield. Our neighboring planet, Mars, which has little or no magnetic field, is thought to have lost much of its former oceans and atmosphere to space.

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2000/ast02mar_1m/

why are we even talking about this. someone already mentioned earlier. how the hell are you gonna get the mantle churning on mars? no magnetosphere means no life from earth, including plants.

>>3057995
It will be if we help it along a little. Not right now, but technologies closer to 2080.

>>3057960
Thank you for that highly scientific and compelling argument my most esteemed gentlemen.

>>3058011
Exactly. We should be focusing on useful technologies first. Not pipe dreams with huge opportunity cost.

>>3057995
>>3057997
I guessed you missed the bit earlier in the thread about the several million years it'd take for the solar winds to erode the martian atmosphere.
Buffing up the atmosphere will solve short-term (Million years or so) concerns about radiation for surface inhabitants; After that, we can sustain low level atmospheric replenishing activities or create an artificial magnetosphere. Preferably both.
Also, FUCKING OZONE.

so are we goin to mars guys??

>>3058019
>We should be focusing on useful technologies first. Not pipe dreams with huge opportunity cost.
Those useful technologies, when put together can make the cost peanuts and be incredibly practical. See: Asteroid mining, easily-replicable factories, advanced ultralightweight materials, robots

>>3057936
>Sam Neill
Where we're going, we won't need eyes to see.

>>3058013
You're very welcome. After all, it is everyone's duty to call people on their bullshit.

>>3058019
>useful technologies, not pipe dreams
pic

>>3058076
When we have such technologies feel free to terraform Mars. Till then we should be spending our money on developing science for everyone's benefit, not just projects for the few who go to Mars.

>>3058100
The LHC falls into this category. So does the ISS. Not a manned mission to Mars. Not right now.

The amount of money we spend on energy research is abysmally low.

>>3058076

I'll be fucked if a canadian company makes it to Mars before the US government. I will personally strangle everyone in the country who isn't fully behind the mission if it means not getting beat by canada.

Women. Children. Giant black guys who can beat me up. I will strangle them all.

>>3058101
Argh, I'm saying that "Till then we should be spending our money on developing science for everyone's benefit" will be exactly what leads to practical technologies for terraforming Mars. The faster we develop robots for help with an aging population and relieving people from dangerous work, the fast we get the workforce needed to build massive regolith-burning orbital solettas. If we don't have easily replicable factories, this slows down development in developing nations. The cost-reduction process that space travel is experiencing right now will only speed up, bringing asteroid mining to profitability.

>>3058146
Just get everything switched to liquid fluoride thorium reactors.
>>3058171
Technically it will be Australians and Canadians.
And with our orbital space-based solar powered satellites, we will temporarily transfer all power from them to our spacecraft to use our powerful laser to burn a trollface in the middle of the Sea of Tranquility, easily visible with binoculars.

Mars is a blank slate. A new start.

1. Magnetosphere - we need some kind of an artificial magnetoshphere to keep the sun's radiation from blowing away our atmosphere. Since they have a solid core it would need to be completely energy driven. I would suggest nuclear reactors.

2. Temperature - The sun is too far away to keep a high constant temperature. If the temperature dips under zero at any point during the Martian year at the equator, it would be difficult to maintain our type of water dependent life.

3. Over abundance of CO2 - once we have a magnetosphere and a larger atmosphere we would need some method to convert all the CO2 present into some O2. Ideally this would be done with plants.

But really, making Mars a planet you could walk around on naked is a far off dream. Even with a magnetosphere, residual radiation could make the planet very dangerous for life for a couple decades of terraforming.

if mars and venus would have "switched places", maybe there would be three planets just in our solar system with life on it.

>replace red dirt with soil
>replace no air with air
>add water
>add plants
>add animals
done

4 golden words that /sci/ should memorise

SMACK.
PHOBOS
INTO
IT

>>3059822
Magnetosphere is not a problem for millions of years, and we'll likely have created an artificial planetary magnetic field by 10,000AD or something.

Temperature part is plain bullshit, even today with the really thin atmosphere Mars sometimes has the equator at about 0'C. Because the Martian gravity is less, the atmosphere will be two and a half times thicker, give or take. This will be a very effective insulation keeping temperatures at Earth average. If not, a bit of an excess of CO2 that wouldn't show any noticeable effects on wildlife or humans should fix that right up.

The over-abundance of CO2 would be fixed by bioengineered algae and bacteria that would produce loads of oxygen at the same time while the air pressure is gradually going up. And I'm sure if this isn't enough we can whip up some easily-replicable-from environment 'bots that can chew CO2 and pump out loads of O2.

>residual radiation could make the planet very dangerous for life for a couple decades of terraforming.

...So you're suggesting that the first twenty years of terraforming should mean we take space-like radiation precautions and suits?
Thank you, Captain Obvious.

>>3059829
Mars would be an airless crust of a planet with almost exactly the same gravity and appearance to Mercury. Venus would likely be a waterworld with primitive lifeforms had it been 230 million kilometers out.

>>3059864
Sorry man, but even I've jumped off the Phobos plan. Unless you're willing to change the method of changing Phobos' orbit via replicating railguns shooting bits of Phobos away at high velocities.

>>3059864
What?
No, no!

It's too valuable as it is, a lump of resources in a stable orbit, just waiting for us to tap that mass.

What you wanna do instead is, capture a massive asteroid, either an NMO or from the belt. The potential energy it has will be a lot more effective at jumpstarting the terraforming than the low-orbit Phobos is. And smacking that into Mars will be a lot easier than wasting Phobos and then inserting another potential spacedock into martian orbit.

Yes, I know Deimos would still be there, but we'll need that one for the anchorweight for the martian beanstalk.

Might be possible with future technology. Ergo we shouldn't waste money on white elephants and instead focus on advancing technology that is in development as we speak, even if we did have some pathological motivation to terraform mars just for inferior naturally occurring fleshbags this would still be the best option.

Confirming logical infallibility of statement... Absolute certainty confirmed. Diverting attention elsewhere... Technology with far greater potential identified... Operation complete.

/thread

>>3059967
The technology exists already.
The specific heavy lift rockets haven't been built yet, but that will change within the next few years.
There's no reason that all technological development not related to the mars project would stop. We can very easily do both at the same time; A collective effort by all the worlds space agencies and their combined budget could see such a plan started and well on it's way, with other money still left for other exploration missions.

>terraforming

Sure thing pal, got a spare sun? Or were you going to pull the required energy outta your ass because you're a retard who doesn't understand how ridiculously difficult terraforming would be?

>>3060413
this is the only response your post dignifies

>>3059864