/sci/ - Science & Math

>>3014903
>implying i'm not already on a superior vegan diet

Because it fucking tastes better than that fucking soy we feed them.

>>3014906
hurr durr "I liek it so I does it"
aren't you guys supposed to be the more rational side of the internet?

Because I like it.

>>3014911

>aren't you guys supposed to be the more rational side of the internet?

No, what gave you that idea?

Because it tastes fucking awesome.

because it's fucking delicioussssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

>>3014911
Aren't you supposed to be trolling, not getting trolled?

>>3014903
>the inefficiencies of meat, milk and egg production range from a 4:1 energy input to protein output ratio up to 54:1

ya but plant based foods are also energy inefficient, photosynthesis ratios for usable biomass is usually 50% for vegetables

although we can farm more proteins from non-animal sources, the protein is inherently less quality, the amino acid profiles are usually terrible--so you only get partial proteins

but ya, meat is a luxury, we farm it because there is a demand, people like meat

I love how vegetarians and vegans push for everyone to "accept" their lifestyle, but at the same time criticize us for ours.

"According to the USDA, growing crops for farm animals requires nearly half of the U.S. water supply and 80% of its agricultural land. Animals raised for food in the U.S. consume 90% of the soy crop, 80% of the corn crop, and 70% of its grain."

This is only true because volume of feed and water offsets costs of actually having the animals graze and mature naturally. Watch the film Food Inc., also, you're never going to get the world to go vegetarian or vegan so go fuck yourself with a cactus.

Don't humans need nutrient rich plants? I know we feed cows corn which is a waste, but livestock can eat and digest plants humans can't, which can grow in places human-edible plants can't.

Is it actually possible to feed the entire world on plants?

Producing meat takes more energy and time than crops. That's why we pay more for steak than bananas. That's all that needs to be said about the "inefficiencies" of meat production.

because i'm a human

Obviously cannibalism is the solution to all of humanity's problems

Look, let me make something abundantly clear for people, who are so bereft of activities they feel like they've gotta comment on my lifestyle.

First of all, being a vegetarian should never be associated with being a revolutionary or being open-minded- that's a dietary choice.

If someone wants to proliferate the type of ignorance we're supposed to be fighting on /sci/ by arguing this, you're just fucking yourself.

I don't go around promoting my beliefs and shoving it in people's faces, I don't castigate people for not eating steak sandwiches, and I would never diss someone for being a fucking broccoli-head, or living off of radishes, or eating grass or tofu. In fact, I like a lot of vegan cuisine. But the illogicality of expecting everyone to adopt to your particular idea of what being healthy or "ethically superior" is is just preposterous.

I've seen some of you herbivores, and if you want to argue health, y'all need to eat some kind of supplement because some of y'all are so skinny that it's disgusting; looking like those motherfuckers on schindler's list.

Being a malnutrition-ass has nothing to do with being being on-point. I'll be damned if I let somebody else push their agenda on me. And you know what? I don't even eat pork, not because I'm a Muslim, I just don't really like it, but I really will fuck a bird up, and fish is good when that shit is fresh.

You know i don't criticize people for eating moss, or radishes, or whatever, so don't open your fucking mouth about my food, man. I like beef and broccoli motherfucker. Mind your god-damn business.

If you don't like the smell of burning meat, well then get the fuck off the planet.

>>3014952

>>3014952

>If you don't like the smell of burning meat, well then get the fuck off the planet.

>>3014952
bullshit. vegetarians are as, if not more healthy than "normal" people. I knew a guy who was ripped as hell, yet only survived on tofu.

>vegetarian ethical god tier reporting in

U jelly, carnivores?

Seriously, though, I'm a vegetarian. I'm not sure/don't care if it has affected my health (positively or negatively), because I do it for ethical reasons. No, I'm not a teenage girl or a hippie. I'm not going through a phase. I've been a vegetarian since age 19, for about 4 consistent years so far.

I'm not judgmental of other people in general. But vegetarianism is very much morally superior.
>come at me, bro

>>3014952
Wisdom.

>>3014985
>bullshit. vegetarians are as, if not more healthy than "normal" people. I knew a guy who was ripped as hell, yet only survived on tofu.
Anecdotal evidence a strong argument does not make, especially with well known solid contradictory evidence.

>>3014989

>I'm not judgmental of other people in general. But vegetarianism is very much morally superior.

People like you need to be put down.

>>3014989
>not a teenage girl or a hippie
>must be a pretentious faggot

>>3014952
>y'all need to eat some kind of supplement because some of y'all are so skinny that it's disgusting
>skinny
>bad thing

wat

CR and mice: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2987625/

My "vegetarian ass" will make it to the Singuarity, you animalistic carnivore.

>>3014903

I tried vegetarian diet, it didn't work for me. So I went back to a balanced healthy diet.

Vegetarianism would work if we did it on a global scale, but a few people here and there doesn't change anything at all. Meat consumption is higher than ever.

All that changes is companies get to market products to a new segment of the population and extract more profit that way...

Because meat is fucking delicious and as my superior brain allows me to domesticate and kill them for my pleasure, and we haven't been able to come up with an acceptable subsitute, heifers gotta go.

>>3014998
>>3014999

>In denial about animal pain
which is actually no different from your own pain

Synthetic meat soon

who cares

here's the vege diet:

carbs on top of carbs, more carbs and more carbs
extremely shit quality protein sources
carbs, more carbs

that's about it, enjoy becoming diabetic

i know 3 fatty girls that are vegetarians...why? because they eat fucken cereal and sugar all day

>>3015018
>implying eggs, cheese, pizza, milk, beans, legumes, corn and other protein-rich food items are not vegetarian

well, as ron white put it:
I didn't climb to top of the food chain to eat veggies

>>3015006

>My "vegetarian ass" will make it to the Singuarity, you animalistic carnivore.

>>3015006
Singularity will never happen. You sound like those May 21st apocalypse fags.

3015033  
>>3014903
NOT ENOUGH LAND ON PLANET EARTH FOR EVERYONE TO BE A VEGETARIAN

FUCK OFF HIPPIE

Meat is delicious.

If there were no subsidies on certain types of farming, and we were forced to pay the real costs of our food, people would naturally come to eat meat only half the nights of the week, and leftovers from that meat for lunch during the rest of the week.

>>3015006
Have I told you about how nerds destroy the world?

Take conspicuous consumption with a lifestyle choice and combine it with early hardware adoption and you have swaths of gadgetry out of stock because they’re incrementally better than the last model. Then there are landfills full of functioning electronics. Wasted time, resources, etc. The best part is that these things were never necessary. It has never mattered how thin a computer is.

There’s a special kind of nerd though who thinks computers will overtake mankind in 30 years, changing humanity in ways incomprehensible to us now, ignoring the third of the world without electricity. So the singularity is the nerd way of saying, “In the future, being rich and white will be even more awesome.”

It’s flying car bullshit: surely the world will conform to our speculative fiction, surely we’re the ones who will get to live in the future.

It gives spiritual significance to technology developed primarily for entertainment or warfare and gives nerds something to obsess about that isn’t the crushing vacuousness of their lives.

It doesn’t matter what you obsess over. Nerds just gotta obsess about something. So you can research alternative energy or, more likely, beat a video game very quickly, or draw a cartoon.

It’s okay though, there are people on the internet that will tell you you’re doing a great job, and since people say you’re doing great it’s gotta be just as good as other things people say are great, right?

Nerds do not define adulthood, they waste it.

I am not telling a joke. You are terrible.

>>3015039
fullretard.jpg
>I don't know about trophic levels

Cows/pigs/livestock only convert about 8-10% of the plant energy they eat into fat/muscle available to human consumption. It would be several orders of magnitude more efficient for world food resources for everyone to be vegetarian.

>>3015037

Yes it will. In a hundred years, people will be able to look back and say 'huh, people in 2011 could have never imagined this stuff!' Just like we look back at 1911 and say the same thing. Or back at 1911 BC and say the same thing.

Don't listen to techno-rapturists who have interpreted it as anything more than an unusually rapid and complete revolution, just like the agricultural revolution, or the industrial revolution, or the computer revolution.

>>3015052
>Yes it will. In a hundred years

fuckyea.jpg

>pic related, how I'm going to stay alive to get there

>>3015048
>Cows/pigs/livestock only convert about 8-10% of the plant energy they eat into fat/muscle available to human consumption.

Aren't they capable of digesting things humans cannot, though?

>>3014903
>implying Vegetarian is anymore ethical than carnivore diet...

only vegan is 'ethical'

Wisdom teeth stopped serving a purpose for a reason.

>>3015065
We also also move our jaws left to right, indicative of herbivory in animals.

We also have digestive tracts very similar to herbivorous mammals. Low meat intake and higher plant intake greatly reduces the risk of colorectal cancer.

>>3015070
we have omnivorous digestive tracts

stop being obtuse

Vegetarians and vegans will cause plants to be extinct because of animal overpopulation.

I eat meat to prevent animal overpopulation, thus protecting the ecosystem. What do people who don't eat meat do? They eat much more plants. They protect farm animals and these animals eat plants too. This causes an over-consumption of specific kinds of plants and thus leading them to extinction.

Vegans and vegetarians will eventually -but basically - make our ecosystem break apart. That's why I eat meat. To protect the ecosystem.

I don't give a fuck about "efficiency" when I just want to enjoy a good-tasting meal. I'm sure it would be more efficient if we all lived in group housing with no furnishings or decorations too.

crymoar

According to the USDA, growing crops for farm animals requires nearly half of the U.S. water supply and 80% of its agricultural land. Animals raised for food in the U.S. consume 90% of the soy crop, 80% of the corn crop, and 70% of its grain.

>Implying these are insurmountable obstacles.

1. Thorium reactors for cheap, clean, safe, and very economically viable source of energy.
2. Vertical farm towers near the ocean that increase farm land by over 20 folds.
3. Cheap desalination processes. Water, water all around and we cannot have a drink, yet.

Hell, if you're so concerned about us meat eaters, maybe you should kill yourself to save the earth from another person raping her arable land to grow some plants.

Why do I continue to eat meat?
Because Bacon.

>>3015083
>prevent animal overpopulation

>>3015087
The future is going to be great.

>>3015055
>>3015052
Where are you singularity motherfuckers getting this shit? Even if there's ever a process to allow a person to become immortal what makes you think you'd be in the selected elite?

>>3015115
Technology becomes cheaper over time.

>>3015115
>what makes you think you'd be in the selected elite

Because I'll be fucking rich by then

>>3015014
>in denial about plant pain

>>3015120
That explains why so many people still can't afford food, clean water, and heated shelter.

>>3015103
The future will be great because we'll all be dead

>>3015147
That's mostly due to stupid environmental and animal regulations

>>3015123
lawl no you won't, neckbeard.

ITT: OP learned something in environmental science 1 and is trying to convert everybody else to his new beliefs
.

>>3015156
This. World starvation is not due to real agricultural problems. We have the technology to turn almost any land into arable land (quite cheaply too). It's shitty governments & wars in the Congo, South America, Myanmar, North Korea, &c. that are causing people to starve.

>>3015166
>you actually made a meme for my post
>butthurt-o-meter: over 9000 giggawats

I'm studying chemical engineering, actually...so I'm sure I'll be able to save up & reinvest.

>>3015170
You can't be serious

There's not enough food for 7 billion people and it's several different governments faults

because we'll never run out of agricultural land or nitrogen fertilizer

never

>>3015170
If it weren't for those wars those countries might actually develop a real organized government and won't appreciate the western world buying up all their natural resources for pittances.

>>3015185
Sarcasm doesn't carry well in text. Were you being sarcastic?

>>3015191
yes I was being sarcastic

but it's not like it matters here

every other post is a troll

>>3015190
Indeed.

Third world countries are rich places, abundant in resources, and many of these countries have the capacity to feed their starving people and the children we always see digging for food in trash on commercials. But plutocracies, in other words a government run by the rich such as America and traditionally oppressive European states force the third world into buying overpriced, unnecessary goods while exporting huge portions of their natural resources.

And then conceited assholes born into these rich countries have the audacity to ask why the third world is developmentally stagnant and some even imply its due to the inherent inferiorities of these people.

>>3015185

There is no food shortage. There is a distribution problem. Perhaps when we reach 10 billion, or 15 billion, and agricultural technology ceases to advance, and existing agricultural techniques cease to spread, we will see a global food shortage. But right now, the problem is that people in one part of the world eat too many calories, and waste too many calories, and people in another part of the world cannot afford to practice more than subsistence farming. And nobody is any closer to figuring out how to send food to the starving without bankrupting their farmers.

>>3015230
I think about 100 calories are used for transporting for every food calorie.

>>3015230
that would be true if our current agricultural system were sustainable. Right now we turn oil into food. You can expect to see more food shortages as we slide down Hubbert's peak.

tell me more about industrial food production vs small scale organic farms.

Hello Friends

>>3015255
oh look it's this asshole

>>3014903

Because the Western Beef had a special on chicken breasts this week (1.29 per lb when I mathed it out) and London broils (about 3.99) and they even turned the broil trimmings into ground beef for burgers.

So when they develop in vitro meat are you going to start eating meat again?

Because vegetarians are smug assholes.

>>3015255
sup fags

>>3015261
>>3015277

>>3015281

Damnit, I forgot my trip again.

y'all listen to me
cow farts are good for the air
and drinking nitrogen is a good idea
A GOOD IDEA
fuck oof

>>3014903
We're omnivores?

I went to college so I know this
that guy is trying to trick you!
he wants to put vegetables in your brain
don't eat anything attached to his body

>>3015252

From what I understand, the best farms, in terms of produce per acre, are those that are just on the size limit of being run by a single farmer or co-op. Industrial farming starts to get less returns per acre, and small scale farming gets less returns per acre. Why? Farming is an art. And it requires individual attention from highly motivated and interested parties to succeed. And it takes a lifetime to learn. Oh, you can do the WORK with a little practice and effort, but to do the management you need to know a lot about the whole process.

Unfortunately, economies of scale act in other ways. It is simple for a single industrial farming interest to buy up the technically more profitable mid-scale farms piecemeal. They make less per acre, but they have more capital in one set of hands.

>>3015310

Thats an interesting idea. I never thought about that but I guess it could be true.

I used to be the treasurer of the gardening club at my university where I did a lot of gardening. People can grow a lot on one square meter.

bigger farms lead to bigger cows!
so if we just made one big farm that covered the whole earth then we'd have giant cows!
wouldn't that be awesome?

>>3015322

I'm afraid I don't have citations, because it's just an understanding I gained from cultural osmosis.

I am almost convinced that I heard Friedman talking about it somewhere, probably in relation to the catastrophic failures of farming in the Ukraine of the '30s, but I can't find the video on youtube.

>>3015339

I believe that if every American invested the time and money it takes to start up an organic garden in their backyards, they could replace much of their spending on groceries with home-grown food that is healthier than what they were buying. It would take the approximate investment of a pet dog.

Friedman, as in, Milton Friedman? Really?

>eating vegetables
Sure, why no-

>NOTHING but vegetables
ಠ_ಠ

>>3015347
why did you start saying things I agree with the moment after I decide to harass you?
feels bad man

1: Vitamin B12
2: Vitamin D
3: Omega 3 oils
4: Fatty acids critical for brain development
5: Easiest to digest source of protein
6: Standard of living, everyone reduced to eating rations of lentils just to squeeze an extra 20 billion people onto the planet is not my idea of utopia
7: Produce food from land unsuited to agriculture, an inefficient output is better than 0 output

>so /sci/, why you still eating meat?

Because the whole point of life is to enjoy it. If we can't produce enough energy to produce some nice barbecue, we might as well just exterminate ourselves. What would be the point of living?

>Plants can't move see hear or think
>Vegens think eating only crippled retarded Helen Keller's is morally superior

>>3015347

It seems like something he'd say. I can hear it now;

'Who do you think wants to make money from this farm? The farmer. He's the one with the most to gain, so he's the one who's going to put the most effort into it.'

But like I say, I don't have a specific source for this.


And regarding home gardening. I had made myself 'post-scarcity' (as I put it), in terms of herbs and potatoes, in my last flat. It had a small backyard, and for the investment of what amounted to ten minutes a day, maybe, I had all the potatoes I could eat, and enough basil, rosemary, thyme, parsley and a few others to actually be able to give some away.

>>3015372
If you throw Helen Keller off a cliff does she make a sound?

yes

She says, "down with Capitalism!"

true story

>>3015359

I dont know, because you are a big dummy face? Everyone stereotypes me in one of two contradictory extremes. I feel bad all the time talking to you people.

>>3015385

Thats awesome! I wish I could get a gardening like that going. Its so cool. I love self sufficiency, and potatoes.
It hurts right here
>points to heart

My goodness. I wish to bone beautiful women, and you have a picture of a woman on your post, OP. I find this argument by advertising so compelling, I will stop eating meat and become a faggot like OP immediately.

>>3015394

Thats me. I need to make it a habit to double check my trip every time.

>>3015394

It is retardedly easy. I don't do it now because I have no outdoor space, and I think it's a bit sketchy to set up an indoor garden.

Get an old tire, put it in the backyard, fill it with soil and some potatoes, and let it grow. Potatoes are simple as fuck. And until you pick them, they keep, underground, all year.

>>3015391

How could anybody know whether she made a sound or not? Surely it would be occluded by local sources, ie, laughter.

>>3015413

I live in Arizona, where the only things we cant easily grow are potatoes. But maybe Ill figure out a way to do it. There has got to be a way.

I dont have a garden right now, because, I am moving too often. Also I was in the gardening club, but I kept getting in conflicts with the president, and my plants kept getting ripped out.

>>3015407
Stop taking it off, then :V

>>3015413
>And until you pick them, they keep, underground, all year.

Really? I didn't know that. I love me some potatoes.

I like them with meat, unfortunately. I'll keep that in mind, though.

I could live a spartan existence without conveniences or luxuries, I could survive by growing everything I need on 1% of an acre, never using automobiles, switching off my gas, electricity and sanitation, maybe even top it off by giving up healthcare and just dying whenever I get ill.

But then I'm not an evil capitalist, I'm an educated middle class and the educated middle class is the only reason why democracy exists in it's egalitarian form and the first time in history when the majority of the population have control over civilization and it's purpose. If I relinquish my economic power I wouldn't be doing the world a favor, I wouldn't be saving black babies, baby whales, baby seals and baby rainforests, I'd be handing that power over to the top 0.1% who would direct it all towards their own luxury or maintaining their power as opposed to the 80% or so I direct towards my luxury and social safety nets and the 20% I re-invest in the economy..

>>3015490
This. If it were only about reducing your personal environmental impact, suicide would be the optimal choice.

>arguing about ethics and environment while browsing 4chan on a computer

>>3015424
Not a vegetarian, but I eat a lot of potatoes. They are also quite good with chili or cheese.

>>3015559
THOSE USE MEAT AND DAIRY PRODUCTS, YOU MONSTER

>>3014903
> so /sci/, why you still eating meat?
It's better for you than starving yourself of vital nutrients.
Why are you still a troll?

>>3015569
Well if it bothers you use vegetarian chili and soy cheese.

>>3015559
>They are also quite good with chili or cheese.

Oh man. I am this hungry.

So, suppose that AIs come into existence and we can live forever and all that stuff.

None of that will magically make your life better. If you have a shitty life now, it will still be shitty with immortality and AIs all over the place. The AIs won't want to talk to you, and you'll still waste your everlasting lifespan sitting on 4chan all day, instead of wasting your present brief lifetime.

>>3016179
Assuming a singularity type immortality, you could just live in a simulated life that wasn't shitty.

So it doesn't really matter.

>>3016199
>hurr life is shit im a hipster look at me
Then sapient nanomachines will decide to turn the computer that stores your consciousness into components for a bauxite processing facility and you'd die a painful death as your mind is ripped apart, and you'd deserve it for ignoring reality.

>PhD in mathematics
>any job I want
>300k starting

>>3016199

So your answer is the same as it is now, Balamb Garden. That's not a real answer dude. You're saying that in the future video games will be so good that you won't mind sitting in a windowless room all day.

If you want to have a good life, start now, don't put it off waiting for machinery to help you.

>>3016218
>>hurr life is shit im a hipster look at me
What the fuck are you talking about, I was responding directly to that guy's comment. Don't put words into my mouth.

>>3016228
What? I'm happy with my life now. I'm just saying if someone is really having a shitty life in a post singularity world, all he has to do is plug in and forget about everything else. If he doesn't want to do that, he's obviously happy enough with his life.

>>3014903
Dayum Anon, stop messing up the chemicals in my brain.

>>3015070
>>3015070
>>3015070

what the fuck? i know what you're saying, but have you ever tried to chew your food that way? i'm sure your vegetarian ass would have a lot of trouble with all that fibre; you simply can't chew that way.

and you know why?

FUCKING CANINES GETTING IN THE WAY!!!!

FUCK YEAAAAAAAHHH!!!!

Because I don't give a shit about the environment, u mad?

If the other mammals stop eating meat, then I will too.

>>3016261
>Don't put words into my mouth.
lol that wasn't what you were saying, that's what would happen so it's not an option

>>3014903
>typically much less efficient
>efficient

>implying I care about efficiency, it's not like I'm growing the food myself.

Gorrilas are strong, they eat plants.

Elephants are big, they eat plants.

Zebras are quick and explosive, they eat plants.

Lions are lazy, they eat meat.

But lion is the king of the jungle.