/sci/ - Science & Math

>Friend says he read that a black hole is an electron on wikipedia
>He says he told his mom that
>She says that she thought it was an anti-electron

You in America?

>>3003877
Wait, what the fuck?

I still meet a whole lot of people who believe the Sun orbits the Earth.

When some chick told me what amounted to:

We don't fully understand quantum physics, but from what we know, it's probably not deterministic.
>We're on the same page here.

We don't fully understand consciousness, but from our gut feelings, it can't be deterministic.
>Okay, I can see what she is getting at.

Therefore the world is molded by our consciousness. And this explains astrology, homeopathy, crystal skulls, whatever mad shit you might believe in.


>mvq I just nodded along until I got to make out with her

Will science forgive me?

>If we can go into space and go on the moon
>Can we go into space and go on earth

>>3003877
What the fuck.
>>3003888
Yep. Mom's not, though. She's not like a hick or anything.

Oh, and I still remember when a psych teacher in high school showed us that picture of the ear grown on the back of a mouse. Only she explained that it was an ear grafted onto the back of a mouse to see if the mouse could hear with it, and then explained that it was the kind of "sick things scientists do when they get bored."

>>3003898
Yes, if two things share one quality, then they share all qualities. She was correct.

State education at work.

What, you thought it was just a coincidence?

>>3003898
your bastard children won't

>>3003877
WAT

"War creates economic prosperity"

>>3003898
Only if you passed on your genes and reproduced with her.

You did... right?

>>3003921
They are 100% correct.

If we came from monkeys why are there still monkeys?

>this was a guy who was taking the same fucking biology lecture as me for the past year

>>3003877
I don't want to exist in this space-time any longer

>>3003931
Not if you are on the losing side of the war.

>>3003942
Honestly this one upsets me. I have asked it before, but when I was fraking 12. When someone explained was like oh that makes sense.
SENSE

>>3003921

What they really mean is; war burns up a whole load of resources, and what remains is even more concentrated in the top levels.

>>3003945
I know, just look at japan.

>>3003945
Reguardless of who is winning, it creates economic prosperity on one side, thus creating economic prosperity.

>>3003957
War actually diverts resources into what is essentially consumption goods (bombs, bullets, tanks), it also physically destroys capital.

War is very profitable for certain people, though.

>>3003951

Japan was a special case. Massive investment from a foreign nation, coupled with incredibly low defence spending, coupled with a complete removal of obsolete social power structures, as well as the physical infrastructure and machinery, it's the perfect storm.

>>3003951
Oh yes, they were an economic powerhouse after all their major cities were in ruins... no wait... they weren't.

>Have an Indian friend
>He and I just played Portal 2 and he brings up that little robot that can't shut up about how he wants to go to space

Haha, funny game, too bad internet memes will eventually ruin all the fun of it for me.

>He tells me he wants to go into space

Okay, understandable, space is pretty awesome

>he then tells me, and I quote: "I want to go to a different milky way and rule all technology"

>MFW

>>3003989

>>3003980
Alright then let me say that war promotes economic prosperity on both sides, if the winner isn't a dick.

>>3003970
Nah, thats like saying cutting your hair stops it's growth.

>>3003945
nor if you are on the winning side but still get killed or maimed in the course of it

War promotes employment insofar as any public project does, but it's inferior to, for example, pyramid building. War creates work. Pyramid building creates work. War may result in getting killed. Pyramid building is unlikely to result in getting killed. When a war is over, most of the materiel is depreciated and you could be left with unexploded ordinance, disabled economic dependents and a raped asshole. When a pyramid building is over, you have a pyramid.

>>3004013
When a pyramid building is over, you have a pyramid that produces nothing. It's a consumption good and thus cannot "grow" an economy.

War is also pretty good as a catalyst for scientific research though.

>We can't see stars in the city because of air contamination from factories.

I overheard someone telling that to his kid.

>person talking to my wife (doing her Phd in Advanced materials/Nanotechnology)
>so you're in computer science?

>>3004012
world's worst metaphor

>>3004033
Thats like saying you would prefer Herpes A over Herpes C

>Hippie chick referring to "energy in the air" during a conversation
>Takes all of my will power to not call her out on it.

>>3004020
Planes, tanks, burnt fuel and shot shells don't produce much either.

>>3004041
Correct. They are both net losses to an economy.

>>3004010

I disagree. War is inherently wasteful. You make things in a factory that are designed to be destroyed, or at least likely to be destroyed or expended. You send young, hearty, sharp men out to be killed. It burns resources, and the two sides burn resources until one of them runs out, or one of them decides winning is no longer worth it.

As a surgical procedure it may indeed encourage a healing of economic systems in it's wake, but it is destructive and wasteful by nature. Slicing open an abdomen is never great, but it could be better than a burst appendix.

>>3004045
but one is a loss you might not survive while the other is a loss without significant externalities that at least leaves you with something permanent and perhaps inspirational

that was the entire point of the the comparison

>>3004038

Tell me about it. And yet, in my experience at least, hippie chicks are so fucking GENUINELY NICE and SMOKING HOT that you can't stay mad at them.

Also, mild disagreement with her position is actually decent flirting. And when they hold the positions hippie chicks tend to, disagreement is easy.

>>3004028
...Seriously? I thought it was common knowledge that it was primarily light pollution.

Guess not everyone watched that episode of Hey Arnold.

>>3004047

I had a great metaphor, or example to agree with you, but for the life of me I can't remember it.

>>3004047
>send young, hearty, sharp men out to be killed

If you're dumb enough to go to war (post-conscription), you deserve to be selected against.

>>3003854
>ITT: Stupid shit people say

>on /sci/

>meta

got told today that fascism and communism are the same thing. proceeded to bash myself in the nutsack

>>3004069
Parable of the broken window?

>>3004091
>Communism: State control of everything
>Fascism: State control of everything, nominal private ownership

uh its true

>>3004091
They're far from the same thing, but they're not opposites either as they're both authoritarian political philosophies.

>>3004101
Pure communism isn't authoritarian.

>>3004091
Oh that's nothing. I was in a U.S. government class and because they have to be politically correct and have extremes on both sides, the teacher drew a chart saying that the extremes of liberalism are socialism and communism and the conservative side ended with
Liberalism -> Fascism
Which makes no fucking sense at all

>>3003898
You got to make out with here so it wasnt bad. But you should go for the alpha score, tell her she's fucking retarded and after that make out with her.

>>3004091
>yourself in the nuts
>not someone else, preferably whoever told you
Did you tell yourself that?

>>3004105
Yeah, the left/right paradigm is completely flawed.

It should just be up/down, "How much violence is being used against you?"

>>3004104
It is authoritarian because there's no way to prevent free-riders hoarders and other defectors from the system without the employment of coercive force by the state.

>>3004137
It isn't authoritarian. You are an idiot.

>>3004137

Whatever system you just described isn't pure communism.

>>3004137
Communism is a sociopolitical movement that aims for a classless and stateless society structured upon common ownership of the means of production, free access to articles of consumption, and the end of wage labour and private property in the means of production and real estate.[1]

>>3004146

What would be 'pure' communism?

Anarchy?

>>3004160
Yes

>>3004151
Would a communist society use money? or how would resources be allocated?

>>3004137

Is this what they teach kids nowadays in their high school social studies classes?

It might actually be worse than it was during the 80s.

>>3004164
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=communism

What? Did I hear the word "communism"?

You see I was sleeping but my economist sense tingled when it detected the word "communism" was being used.

>>3004163

And when people in this anarchy want to trade resources, and man-hours, they can do so?

Because my idea of anarchy lets people have markets as well as communes.

>>3004193
Why, because communism would put you out of a job?

>>3004137

What you described is state capitalism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalist

Which is vastly different from actual communism as conceived by Marx. Actually, there hasn't been any pure communistic governments in the world yet. Even China's communist party doesn't follow Maoism directly.

Why hasn't there been any "real" communist nations yet? Because communism doesn't work in reality? Maybe. Because people don't have the balls to try it? Probably more likely.

>>3004202

Are you kidding? Its a job opportunity! So many problem that would need to be fixed.

>>3003989
>>3003989
>>3003989
I have a few more funny High School stories about this guy if anyone would like to hear them

>>3004208
but they'd be boring ones, and you'd be paid the same as a janitor.

>>3004204
>Because people don't have the balls to try it?

More like because the UN will attack anybody who tries.

>>3004222

Do EEET

>>3004226
>2011
>still thinks everybody gets paid the same in a communist system

God dammit, is this 1960?

>>3004226

Yeah, not that I was serious or anything

"Econ Man, how make peasant stop grumbling?"
"Simple Comrade, remove peasant"
"Excellent idea, you choose any of daughter"

>mfw when I choose any of daughter

>in 7th grade
>teacher played a trivia game
>one question asked "What Greek God is the messenger?"
>a girl responds with Jesus

>>3004237
name a working communist system

>>3004254
there are no communist systems implemented

>>3004222
Yes please.

>>3004254

You misunderstand. I am not a communist and I don't advocate it either. I just the scientist/aspie/OCDfag in me that hate how the general public misunderstands so many things.

Cuba is communist and acknowledges private property.

Just Sayin'

>>3003898

>quantum mechanics
>non deterministic

Gtfo. Of course it is. Its a completely deterministic theory just not during measurement. You need to get out more.

And the idea that our consciousness can mold reality isnt as dumb as you seem to think, learn2philosophy

>>3004254
Name a 2012 nobel prize winner.

Oh, I guess since you can't, we know that there wont be one.

>>3004254

Maybe the family.

Try to make it larger than that and you run into problems, though. Capitalism is a much better way of aligning interests between people than communism when you get to this scale.

>>3004204
>Why hasn't there been any "real" communist nations yet?
There had been a few in existence for a short time, but they were all raped by the USSR and the USA. There may also still be undisturbed tribes that could be described as communist, and nomads in Mongolia and Russia have no social structure and common ownership of the means of production.

>Actually, there hasn't been any pure communistic governments in the world yet.
That's because a "communistic government" is a paradox.

>>3004270
You're funny.

>>3004269
>Cuba is communist and acknowledges private property.
doesn't sound like communism to me

>>3004278

I remember engels saying something like the family was the smallest unit of authority and corruption or something.

So no.

ITT: People who have completely the wrong idea of what socialism/communism is.

I personally don't know much about them, but know enough to say that China/soviet Russia/North Korea etc aren't communist. As someone mentioned earlier a lot of people mistakenly think state capitalism = communism.

A system which calls itself socialist and yet still has a ruling class which owns the means of production clearly isn't socialist.

>>3004278
>>3004278
That may work, but I really don't think most familys outside the amish work as a collective.

>>3004299
TRUTH.

>>3004231
Alrighty then

Back in High School, we took this CAD class which was pretty awesome, even if it was just an educational version of CAD.

Now my Indian friend here, which I will now refer to from now on as Hardeep., was taking this class along with me, though we had it at different periods. According to the teacher of that class, Hardeep was not using the measurements for his drawings and was just eyeballing every line and circle he drew.

This resulted in his 2D drawings being incredibly large, resulting in much plotter and printer paper/ink being wasted in the process.

He then became the butt of about 95% of the jokes made in that class, and was dubbed: "Harderp the Jedi Master"

>>3004287

When dysfunctional, sure. It's the state writ small when people are in charge of it. But it's the model for communism when it's done right.

>>3004307

It's not about having a business as a collective. It's about a community of people who will support you and who you support in return.

>>3004285


Wait do you actually think quantum mechanics is nondeterministic?

I hope people dont actually think that, its fullretard zone. The fact that we cant measure something doesnt mean it doesnt follow from existing laws. Determinism just means if we did know all relevant information we'd be able to predict future events in a system. Quantum mechanics is still based on that we just cant possibly know all relevant information.

As for your consciousness molding reality, as Descartes said 'i think therefore i am'

That is ALL you can ever really know. Any point past that and we begin having to make assumptions and leaps. It may be intuitive to make certain assumptions, but yea, there is no completely sound way of moving past 'i think therefore i am'

What is it's a big hoax and we suffered the opportunity cost of a 'better world" for no reason?

>>3004286
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of all the bodies of work regarding Marxism.

Marx and Engels advocated the private ownership of property as in one's own possessions, one's own house & land and so on -- indeed, it's only reasonable. When talking about abolishing "private ownership...", the vital, often overlooked point, is "...of the means of production". Maoism and Stalinism and all the other aberrations communism we have seen are dead wrong on that issue.

In other words, a rich man would not be able to buy a factory, but he could buy a house with no problem.

Pure communism requires anarchy. Marx new that, he just envisioned a transitional phase where the government has to take control of everything. Any country that has tried to institute pure communism has never really made it past that transitional stage. Evidently power corrupts.

Communism is a great concept, and will work if everyone in an area agrees to it. I don't get why people think they have the right or responsibility to make an entire country or world follow one system.

I envision a one world government that treats countries like states (in the american sense of the word) that isnt afraid to experiment with instituting different systems in different areas. Pluralistic democracy is the future man.

>>3004310
you said they'd be funny.

>>3004351
I'm a bad storyteller, sorry

>>3004323
You are funny. I think I'll kill you last.

>As for your consciousness molding reality, as Descartes said 'i think therefore i am'

That has nothing to do with molding reality.

Second, I believe the hidden variables interpretation of quantum mechanics was ruled out bey Bell's theorem. I don't understand it in detail myself, so that would be something interesting to study over the summer.

>>3004151
Yeah, you forgot the IMPORTANT part of that article, numbnuts.

>I was browsing through one of my old PADI SCUBA diving course books
>"(...) your body needs oxygen to create energy."
>"create energy"
>mon visage quand

You know what does work?
The trickle down effect. It spreads prosperity from the high upper class to the slightly lower high upper class.

>>3004350

Anarchy. Sounds good to me.

Though I think to ferment it you need to have a situation where; first, people can just go away and do something else if they don't like how people are living in some place; second, people can make pretty much all they need to live a modern life without needing to buy it off someone else.

We had that in the Old West, which was a fairly anarchistic place. With a strong community spirit AND strong individualist spirit.

>>3004356

Of course it has to do with molding reality, i was asserting the philosophical possibility, based on the fact that we can't really be sure of anything.

>Ironically, quantum mechanics is one of the best prospects for a genuinely deterministic theory in modern times

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/determinism-causal/#QuaMec

There are multiple interpretations of quantum mechanics and no reason to think its nondeterministic. Look around that site you should find information about how we could all be molding the world to our whims. God you're a narrow minded fuck.

But its probably deterministic.

>>3004409
>really can't be sure of aything

I posit a invisible unicorn

>YOU CANT BE SURE

What about capitalism? That shit is cool right?

Who is with me? Anyone?

>>3004435
>>3004435
pft, thats so last decade

>>3004435

TOO MAINSTREAM FOR ME

>>3004404

>>3004435
It's "cool" if you're actually a capitalist. Have you ever provided capital?

>General Science class freshman year
>girl asks if we can go to sun
>teacher says not its to hot
>bitch says what if we go at night?

>>3004409
>>3004409
>molding the world to our whims

whose whims created third world countries then?

>>3003854
Love the pic.

jesus fucking christ sure is /new/ in here

>>3004504

So, does she post here with a tripcode, or as Anonymous?

>>3003854
>Stupid shit people say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_y4-z-kDqQ

Thread de-railed.

>>3004688
I don't like to call them physical laws, so much as.... physical suggestions.