/sci/ - Science & Math

> implying they are not the same thing

>"You retard SCIENTISTS think you're so smart, when just YESTERDAY you said there was Dark Matter, and NOW, you're telling me there's ANTI-GRAVITY! These so called "Scientists" don't understand anything, they're just making stuff up for grant money! They can't get anything right, just like global warming! Obviously, we should be giving more money to the military and churches than these lazy so called "scientists" who waste tax payer money on hoaxes. VOTE ROMNEY 2012."

First post in the comments section of Fox News, I will bet you a considerable sum of money.

>>2924560

dat pic

shivers every time

requesting pic "how to do math like a physicist" with a troll face going "add a dark number, NOW you're doing math like a physicist!"

>>2924598

Yeah you're probably right about that. There is a real ignorance problem in the U.S.

This gives me a boner because it means FTL.

>>2924634

Only to you.

Holy shit...

Does this mean FTL? OH MY GOD I THINK THIS MEANS FTL IF THIS IS CORRECT.

MFW

reading, will comment shortly

Well, I guess it would sort of address the matter/anti-matter asemmytry problem, but wouldn't this indicate that there's more anti-matter than regular matter due to the rate of expansion, sort of like how we were sure most of the mass of the universe was dark matter previously?

I wonder how many people will suddenly believe FTL travel is possible who previously were adamant that it was impossible.
Forfuck's sake guys, everything is improbably until you try it.
If it works it works. If not then go fuck yourself.
That's he essence of science.

Jesus, man.

>>2924686

amen

just read the paper, seems legit. also, its dark-energy that is out, not dark-matter. and whats with this FTL shit?

>>2924686
Wow.. So many spelling errors.
full retard etc.

>>2924686
Wouldn't you need more exotic matter than the mass of the entire visible universe and more energy that a direct conversion of Jupiter's mass into usable energy to achieve FTL?

Why fuck about with this theoretical superluminal stuff when we can conquer the galaxy in a less than 1 million years with nuclear pulse propulsion alone?

When will you faggots learn that just because someone publishes a paper it does not mean the pillars of science have been shaken?

Reading before further comments.

>>2924773
>Wouldn't you need more exotic matter than the mass of the entire visible universe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive#Difficulties
>Chris Van Den Broeck, in 1999, has tried to address the potential issues.[10] By contracting the 3+1 dimensional surface area of the 'bubble' being transported by the drive, while at the same time expanding the 3 dimensional volume contained inside, Van Den Broeck was able to reduce the total energy needed to transport small atoms to less than 3 solar masses. Later, by slightly modifying the Van Den Broeck metric, Krasnikov reduced the necessary total amount of negative energy to a few milligrams.[2]

>>2924773
Because by then we will be dead.
Also 1 million years. No. Something that takes that long to accomplish will never happen as far as humans are concerned.
Then again we won't even be human at that point.
If we even exist.

>>2924773
And do it on a dildo ship? Sorry bud, but I ain't no queer.

>>2924780
it looks like it is correct, only possible problem is that it assumes CPT symmetry in curved spacetime.

>>2924801
Thank you for being the voice of reason, Sir.

>>2924786
But the interstellar hydrogen hitting the zone of contracted space in front of the ship will transfer heat to the normal space your ship sits in and heat it up until you turn into plasma.

And more importantly, knowing there is negative energy or exotic matter doesn't mean you can use them. We know gravity exists but we don't have artificial gravity, and probably never will.

Either we can wait around like faggots because we just need to have our socially progressive wank space opera which requires ftl. Or we can just become horrible inhuman bastards that travel around in slower than light vessels striping entire stellar systems of all resources, and know that we will be able to conquer this galaxy and perhaps the entire universe and live until the stars burn out.

I'm going to go with the strategy I know will work, thank you very much.

mutual repulsion sounds like a good reason why not all the matter/antimatter got destroyed by balancing each other out. They just kind of drifted apart and never called back.

>>2924824
artificial gravity: take contained plasma, such as in TOKAMAK fusion reactors, add heat until you get the amount of gravity you want.

>>2924801
Spacebattleship propelled by nuclear bombs that fires directional nuclear bombs(the casaba howitzer) at other space battleships and uses fractional bombardment to nuke cites from orbit.

I'm not sure you know what queer means.

>>2924842
>>2924842
Wat

>>2924851
gravity = bending of space by energy
heat = energy

here is another less practical device:
take box of perfect mirrors (this is the non-practical part)
shine light into it
artificial gravity caused by all the photons in the box!

>>2924877
>>2924877
>gravity = bending of space by energy

Gravity is the bending of space by mass. And it only contracts/indents space. For you precious warp drive to work you would also need space to be expanded behind you. Which is where this negative energy shit comes in. It's action is observable in the form of the expansion of the universe by "dark energy". But how the hell would you utilize a universal constant as a form of propulsion? You'd have to induce that space behind you to expand even more than it is right now.

Yeah light has been found to have infinitetesimal mass, but even empty space has mass due to particles that constantly pop into and out of existence. Which I thought was the leading hypothesis to explain dark matter.

But you don't create extra mass by heating up plasma. If the plasma is undergoing fusion then their is a tiny mass loss, which is the source of the photons.

Even assuming that someone comes up with FTL in a million years, why not conquer the galaxy now. It won't stop people from hopelessly trying to achieve FTL. And if they somehow do then that faction can start conquering the disparate pocket empires that the colonists created out in the galaxy.

The issue is conquering the galaxy/universe and eliminating all intelligent life not derived from homos sapiens sapiens. We have to do that otherwise our descendants won't be safe and dominant. And organisms that don't try to ensure the dominance and survival of their descendants go extinct.

how the fuck do you view the article. I am not paying or setting up an account to view what should be free. Fuck this spam.

>>2924981
I see you are a slave to your genes. That pic with darwin screaming "EAT, FIGHT, FUCK!" comes to mind.

The only thing of value to a sapient being is his mind. The body is just a support network for it.

>>2924981
what the fuck are you talking about?
1) I never mentioned a warp drive, I was talking about creating artificial gravity, so that we can for example walk in a space ship.
2) how is it a universal constant?
3a) virtual particles popping in and out in a vacuum are not on its mass-shell.
3b) photons have mass? citation needed.
4) the energy momentum tensor creates gravity, not mass
5) heat can create gravity, as the energy momentum tensor is dependent on it.
6) what does artificial gravity have to do with FTL?
7) the issue is your lack of reading comprehension

>mfw when a relevant science thread becomes a thread about FTL and other nerdtopian fantasies made by people with no understanding of reality who probably still believe in "Space Empires"

>>2925100
So if this is anti-matter, shouldn't it be visible and interact with light? How about actual black holes that are actually black and invisible?

>>2925076
>only thing of value to a sapient being is his mind
Existentialist pansy detected. Self awareness is very useful to an organism. Since it allows it to modify it's own behavior, even without experience a sapient organism can expect a certain situation and modify it's behavior accordingly. And for at matter sapience allows for significant self centered thought, which could be very useful if individual humans begin to modify their own physiology and genetics. Sapience is such a massive consumer of computing power, but it has a single advantage that makes up for all its shortcomings, the undeniable compulsion to survive.Self awareness makes your greedy and makes you want to propagate your genes, your ways, your Gods, and your tastes down the generations. That way a part of you always survives.

It is true that without self awareness an intelligent organism would be like a army without a general. The individual parts may be competent but it needs someone to do the long term planning. To scheme for it and create plans that can be flowed and only deviated from when circumstances change to fast for planning to matter.

But for all that sapience is not an ends in of itself. It helps the organism to survive.

>"EAT, FIGHT, FUCK!"
More like: CONSUME reasources to increase your strength and the number of offspring you can provide for, DESTROY your enemies when it is necessary with the least loss to yourself, REPRODUCE by exchanging gametes with the opposite sex or maybe constructing offspring through some industrial process.

Our inbreed behaviors are to sloppy. They need to be purified, more rigidly defined, and made undeniable. We need to reinforce all the efficient behaviors we have and cut out all weakness and waste.

>>2925182
>black holes
>invisible

pick one

>>2925100
FTL is impossible. But you can have single system space empires.

Also GTFO mutant!

I've just thought of something
The earth has a magnetic field right?
So if you made a magnet powerful enough you could repel the earth's magnetic field and achieve antigravity

>>2925204
That's not antigravity.

And the Earths magnetic field is huge, but not enough for you to levitate against it.

I've just thought of something
The room has a roof right?
So if you made a rope powerful enough you could be suspended from it and achieve antigravity

This theory is very Kakunian.

"This time inversion of antimatter is in agreement with the Feynman-Stuckelberg interpretation that antiparticles are nothing else than the corresponding particles traveling backwards in time. Hence,when we deal with a physical system composed of both matter and antimatter, the antimatter component may be interpreted and treated ... as if antimatter were matter “living” in a totally inverted spacetime."
.....
"Therefore, an anti-apple would fall on to the head of an anti-Newton, sitting on an anti-Earth, exactly in the same way as it happened here some time ago."

Anti-matter .. anti-gravity .. reverse time .. alternate universe. mkay.

That's cool an all but we can't use anti matter to make anti gravity devices
Anti matter can only be contained in a vacuum

>>2925355
why not? just put it in a vacume

>>2925329
where did he mention alternate universes?

>>2924560

Anti-gravity can, per definition, not exist.

>>2924618

I know i´m late, sorry.

If anyone wants to read a good Sci-fi book that is ACTUALLY PLAUSIBLE, go read Revelation Space.

>>2925329

That said nothing about anti-gravity.

Also
> implying there is no evidence of CPT-violation

>>2925401
>implying there is and that it wont completely fuck up QFT

>>2925385
>Anti-gravity can, per definition, not exist.
where the fuck did you pull that out?

>>2925380
That's clearly what it suggests, an alternate universe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-yy2URAYqU

>>2925418

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPT_symmetry#CPT_violation

Not only QFT.

>>2925427

Just look at what gravity is. It instantly means there cannot be something equivalently pulling in "another direction" (as gravity is not even a real force).
It's difficult to explain in a few words and i'm pretty tired.

Correct me if I'm wrong, becuase I probably am, but aren't modern physicists just full of shit? Now I know nothing of this stuff, so again, I'm most likely wrong, but it seems to me that physicists just have a bunch of unproven theories which they then spin off on like some retard philosophist to create even more fucked up theories. Sure it all makes sense within this little framework they've created for themselves, but what if their original assumptions are incorrect? I mean, we don't even fully understand gravity, and now we're pulling "anti-gravity" out of someones butt? Because what, there has to be symetry or whatever? Says fucking who?

..sounds cool though, keep it up.

>>2925457

You're implying that a repulsor force on some sort could not "by definition" exist, when we don't even know the nature of gravity precisely.

u high? There are repulsing forces at work all around physics.

>>2925532

As said, learn how gravity works (i.e. general relativity). It is not possible to create an opposing force, as long as you don't postulate any exotic matter with negative mass or shit like that.

>>2925507

> aren't modern physicists just full of shit?

No, you are wrong.

> physicists just have a bunch of unproven theories which they then spin off on like some retard philosophist to create even more fucked up theories

1/10

Reading the abstract, paper has fuck all to do with dark matter and is a proposal for dark energy.

>>2925553
I assure you I'm not trolling, you giant tool. Are you referring to my use of the word "unproven"? I realize that most shit in science and physics in particular aren't exactly proven. But really, what do we know about gravity? A shitload, I'm sure, but we hardly know what it really is. Now stop being such a faggot 4channer and answer my comments with some dignity, or just go fuck your left hand.

>>2925575

> we hardly know what it [gravity] really is

> You hardly...

fix'd

Look at your post. Full of (false) accusations due to not at all understanding what scientists do. Get some manners. Maybe you'll get a decent answer then.

>>2925553
>>2925507
String theory is full of shit because it is not predictive. Other theories are predictive.

But few have any practical application, and as such there is little purpose to devoting much time to theoretical physics. I'll stick with proven physics and make plans for conquering the cosmos with relativistic space craft. Rather than contemplating the universes beginning or end, I want there to be humans around to see it.


Science is not a worldview or philosophy. It is not some faggy quest for enlightenment and knowledge. Science is the path to power. It is used to make predictive models. If you can predict the behavior of natural phenomena you may be able control or influence those phenomena to an extent and use them for your own ends. Prediction is power and power means survival.

>>2925547
did you reed the article, he explained how it is possible in it, thats what the article is about.

>>2925590
>>2925590


Really? Tell me then. What mediates gravity? Is gravity instantaneous? Why is it such a weak force? Do the phenomena attributed to dark matter point not to some form of matter but actually to an extension of gravity?

>>2925609

> few have any practical application

For example?

> I'll stick with proven physics

That's perfectly fine if you ask me.

> It is not some faggy quest for enlightenment and knowledge

So you're implying that this quest has no application/use whatsoever? I think you might have to rethink that statement. This is actually where most applications came from.

>>2925615

> Really?

Referring to what?

> What mediates gravity?

As far as theory suggests now, nothing.

> Is gravity instantaneous?

No.

> Why is it such a weak force?

Because of how it works (you can't arse me into explaining GR right now, please).

> Do the phenomena attributed to dark matter point not to some form of matter but actually to an extension of gravity?

I'd say yes, but that's just as speculative as proposing dark matter. For me, it's a sign of the missing Mach principle in GR, that would need another vector field á la scalar-tensor-vector gravity, but currently, that's a matter of taste.

>>2925612

I can't read the article without regsitration.

Since they are using GR and QM at the same time, they implay both are valid at thesame scales. So this is highly speculative and probably wrong.

>>2925639
> What mediates gravity?
>As far as theory suggests now, nothing.

so, according to current theories, something that is not compatible with our other current theories. yip, we understand it perfectly.

>>2925626
>For example?

Lets say you found out what dark matter is. Or origin of the expansion of space that they call dark energy.

What application would this have? The majority of Dark Matter is noninteractive with baryonic matter, we couldn't do anything with it.

How would we apply the extremely slow expansion of space which only occurs when any particles that have mass are very distant from each other.

Or lets say String Theory was proven correct. We now know that material properties are decided by the properties of subatomic vibrational 1 dimensional particles. And that lets me make a better gun or car, how?

I mean gravity at least can be used to drop a big rock on someone you don't like. Nuclear physics can let you understand how to make a fission bomb. Understanding electromagentism lets you figure out how use electricity.

Practical application is key. Now I'm not saying that there is not practical application to astrophysics, since it lets use know were stars are that we might want to conquer in the future, but some of the theories have no prospective application at all.

>So you're implying that this quest has no application/use whatsoever?
No, I am saying that simply knowing shouldn't be our goal. Our goal should be to apply the information we gather for our own gain.

For example, you could plant an ROV on the lower shore face and figure out how hummocky cross stratification actually forms during a storm event, when divers that have tried have been tossed around by storm surge. But there is no money for such a project, because knowing how that sedimentary structure forms in real time is not important for finding gas or oil in sandstone with that sedimentary structure. We just need to know the environment if forms in and the flow conditions to look for hydrocarbon baring sands of that type.

>>2925652
just regester with face info, they dont send a verivication email or anything.

shameless bump

wat

>>2925676
Oh math, you tell us so much about so little.

physicists are just mad that mathematicians are smarter than them