/sci/ - Science & Math

dat magnetic field

Wouldn't the low gravity on Mars cause the atmosphere to float away?

You would need CO2 generators. This could be in the form of a large biodome with plants in it releasing CO2 into the open Martian surface. The hard part is keeping those plants alive.

You would also need to produce it fast enough that the cosmic winds don't disperse it. Though that effect is pretty damn slow.

As far as Venus, it's a pretty big clusterfuck that's not really worth our time. I mean it's at the melting point of lead in the shade. The Moon is too small for anything beyond a station of sorts.

>>2920567
What the escape velocity of nitrogen and oxygen? Goddammit, I haven't done this Astronomy 101....

>>2920563
>dat magnetic field

>>2920563
dat insufficient gravity, too

>>2920574
Uhhh that's not how that works. The planet has escape velocity, not stuff on said planet.

Guys Mar's gravity is more than enough to pull gas in. The reason it doesn't have an atmosphere is because it had been eroded away over the billions of years. Recreating it would NOT be hard, however you will need to maintain it and replenish it, just like the Earth does naturally.

The cosmic erosion effect is actually really weak.

Science can't make earth a move liveable environment. What makes anyone think they can do better on Mars?

>>2920572
>plants releasing CO2

>>2920563
Not quite as big a problem that far away
>>2920567
http://bigthink.com/ideas/24011
>Answer: You are absolutely correct. Mars is a small planet, and hence it's gravitational field is not strong enough to permanently hold onto a dense atmosphere, but it is sufficient to hold onto an atmosphere for thousands to millions of years, which is enough for us. Once we terraform Mars, there will be enough of an atmosphere to take of all our needs for generations to come.
>>2920572
Create a large orbiting soletta to melt CO2 out of low lying areas of Mars that will be inundated.
As for Venus, that's for another thread.

>>2920604
The Earth is already livable. We're just fucking it up with pollution, and poor water and forest management.

plants respire
respiration produces CO2.

What we need to do is crack them ice caps open.

Potentially all the stuffs needed to make an atmosphere is right there.

What we really need to think about beyond that though is the fact the "water" on Mars is apparently liquid death.

>>2920595
When I say 'escape velocity' I just meant the speed at which the molecules are moving at the given temperature. You are right though, using the term for both the speed of the particles and the planet's escape velocity is confusing.

>>2920614
>What we really need to think about beyond that though is the fact the "water" on Mars is apparently liquid death.
What?

>>2920605
They both consume and produce CO2, a lot faster than humans can.

>>2920618
Remember that sample they found and scooped up? The supposed "melting ice"? Well apparently it's pure salt and acid. Might as well have found brake fluid.

>>2920604
Just need to make sure we don't involve the people making global warming out to be something unnatrual, they may panic after looking to hard at the planet becoming habitable.

>>2920621
How fun. Doesn't mean most of Mars' supposed ice is suddenly salt and acid.

>>2920632
Not arguing that, and it's why we're still exploring and trying to find a better source. But so far all the evidence points to salty death.

>>2920629
Hey who knows, a little global warming might actually aid Mars in the short run. We would just need to be able to quickly ween it off as the planet gets to the right temperature to sustain liquid.

>>2920604
It's a blank canvas not full of typos and white-out?

>>2920638
That's also to say that we can't somehow CHANGE the property of the water on Mars, even if that means introducing foreign water

It might sound goofy, but I think the most viable option is to use satellites to redirect comets with their mass to collide with Mars. I mean it's where most of our water and gas came from on Earth. Seems like the same would work for Mars.

>>2920641
If they fuck up it doesn't fuck us all so their free to push the limits and try different things without the risk of wiping out all of humanity like they would screwing up a supposed miracle cure on earth?

>>2920645
Smack Phobos into it

>>2920645
Thats a decent idea.
The challenge would be roping in those comets and guiding them into the planet.
Would be pretty cool to watch too :D

Terraforming Venus would be pretty trivial if we had quadrillions of dollars to spend on the effort and millions of years to sit around waiting.

So yes, it is that "easy".

>>2920664
It would, but it would also take a LONG time, like eras.

So we better get to work on it. This rock is getting crowded and running on fumes.

>>2920668
Actually it should cost less than 250 billion if we use technologies available around 2050. Namely, droids that can set up shop on a asteroid and the direct it into a orbit around Venus, while disassembling it into a massive parasol to block all incoming solar radiation to the planet. This way you freeze out the atmosphere within a few decades. Then you get droids to scoop up the dry ice and launch it away (or to Mars/Mercury/Luna) while at the same time you begin redirecting Kuiper belt objects to collide into Venus. Preferably on one side to speed up the rotation a liiiiittle bit.

>change Mars' solid core into liquid

i dont think so tim

>>2920554
>more CO2
>Venus

lolwut?

>>2920716
>implying we need to restart Mars' core to have a planetary magnetic field
Actually i'm interested, what would be the effects on biological organisms without a magnetosphere?

Venus is more practical to terraform than Mars. It's atmosphere is quite similar to primordial Earth's, but with much less water. Introducing photosynthetic biologicals to the upper atmosphere, with a carefully-regulated hydrogen cycle (using hydrogen either captured from the solar wind or brought from elsewhere) could allow the majority of the atmosphere to be fixed in the planet's crust (in the form of solid oxides and subterranean organic deposits (like what happened on Earth prior to the Oxygen Crisis). This would leave behind a saturated (oxidized) planet crust, and an atmosphere much like Earth's (mostly dinitrogen and dioxygen, and much much thinner and cooler).

Mars, if subjected to a similar process, would end up with no tenable atmosphere at all (due to how little it has to begin with, and how strongly reducing it's ferrous crust is). The best you could hope for on Mars is a relatively thin atmosphere of CO2, barely enough to survive in without a pressure suit (and oxygen masks would be required 100% of the time).

>>2920684
Is fucking with the gravitational properties of the solar system REALLY something we should fuck with? Seemingly, we have a pretty stable routine going here.

>>2920726
Death by cancer.

>>2920726
Protection from the sun, really.

But that can also be avided by altering the composition of the atmosphere.

>>2920684
In this day and age making 40 year predictions about technology is wild speculation.

You might as well be asking a palm reader.

>>2920684
>droids that can set up shop on a asteroid
>disassembling it into a massive parasol

You think we can do that by 2050? Yeah right. That's only 39 years away. Where were we 39 years ago? 1972, we were landing on the moon and making integrated circuits. Things haven't changed much in the last 39 years and I don't expect they will in the next 39 either. Progress of the type you want takes generations.

>>2920745
Specify how much exposure would be required for that? At Mars distance that is.
>>2920747
Yeah I was thinking if there's extra ozone or insert gas here it would counteract anything serious.

>>2920572
I take it you're just gonna pull these trillions of megatons of organic matter and oxygen out of your ass, seeing how there isn't any more on Mars than what's in the atmosphere and ice caps).

>we will never colonize space because it will never be economically feasible
>we will never get rid of our lust for money and work together to build a better world and explore the galaxy like in Star Trek

Whoah, whoah, whoah niggers, I thought that mars was already 90% CO2 in atmosphere

>>2920760
Wasn't the Trek universe springboarded by alien technology though?

>>2920756
>You think we can do that by 2050?
Advanced robotics with the method of smelting asteroid material into useable ore to be made into more robots/factories/parasol is the only technology required. I do think this will be available by 2050.

>Things haven't changed much in the last 39 years and I don't expect they will in the next 39 either.
Last 20 years? Thousands of new medicines, gene therapy, dozens of vaccines, cloth weaves that are waterproof so that when you spill your beer you don't get wet, novel methods of synthesizing all sorts of stuff, plastics that are stronger than steel, new semiconductors.... Then there are advances in cosmetics, and in automobiles, aeronautics, and power generation (clean coal tech, nuclear materials tech). Major advances in smelting and refining procedures. Mathematical methods for brewing alcohols more efficiently and with better flavours. Sports gear is not even comparable. Modern paper lasts much longer, looks much better, and is much cheaper... then there is e-ink technology. DVDs. The compressor in your refrigerator uses a completely different design. So does your hot water tank.

You just take all this stuff for granted. Almost everything you wear, eat, sleep on, and masturbate to has been revolutionized in the last 20 years.

20 years ago, we had eight channels on TV. Eight. We'd just upgraded to cable, giving us four extra channels. Buying shelves for your house was a major expense... you couldn't just drop $10 at IKEA. Our car was a monstrous hunk of steel that got boiling hot inside in the summer, and had frost on the inside all winter. The rear windshield was held onto the frame by a sort of tar, which would melt and drip in the heat.

>>2920761
It doesn't really have an atmosphere. At least a good one.

>>2920767
Truth.

>>2920767
>>2920774
Aw fuck.

>>2920761
Needs thicker blanket before different types?

>>2920767
No, duh. At least we had hit the maximum space travel speed before they helped. Or some shit like that.

>bitch I ain't no NERD

>>2920684
>Making a cost estimate for a project to begin 49 years in the future
>Making a cost estimate for technologies that do not yet exist

Stop it.

>>2920761
0.7% Earth thickness

Yeah we just need to build one of these and it will be no sweat.

>>2920792
>49

AND HERE I THOUGHT I HAD THE HIGH GROUND

Fuck subtraction.

>>2920786
Yeah but hitting maximum space travel didn't result in a scarcity free universe, that was the alien hand-wavery.

Also "Why don't they just replicate gold-plated latnium"

>>2920792
>2050
>49 years into the future

>>2920808
Man can that get any more 70's design?

>>2920813
I saved a whole bunch of pictures relating to Mars today, i'm just posting them as I go.

>>2920800
I loled

>>2920802
Most replicators work at molecular resolution. Complex products like gold-pressed latinum need quantum resolution, which means you have to use a transporter or an industrial replicator.

They had all of those things on DS9, and I'm assuming they were also available to the Ferengi. It's just another hole in Star Trek's tech handling. I will add it to the pile.

>>2920800
Get yo' ass to Mahhrs

>>2920802
Yea, but we did have to invent the warp drive before the Vulcans took notice of us and helped us out.

If only thats how it worked.
We develop a space engine that would make it fiscally viable for alien species to get involved with us for trade and commerce and suddenly they think we are neat shit.

They could get us to do all the work of shipping resources because we would be so supper excited to see aliens.

"Great, we would love to do trading with you. Just hop on your human ship and tow this list of materials to our base out there and we will chill out here in help you do...new...stuffs... yea."

If we colonize Mars, which has a lower gravity and less atmostphere to protect from radiation, what percentage of the human race will mutate into Kuato?

>>2920839
It's basically hand-wavery because plots in scarcity free environments can be hard to write after tons of episodes.

>>2920800
Wazzat, ill get right on it.

<span class="math">nigger[/spoiler]

You wouldn't need CO2... just for plants. A much more effective heat conductor would be water vapor. But again, until we get enough batteries to make an artificial magnetic field, WE'RE SHIT OUT OF LUCK

Last Mars pic, i'm off

>>2920848
The Culture series manages to stay interesting despite being functionally post-scarcity.

But Star Trek was never about consistency.

>>2920841

>fiscally viable?

When we get established in space capital accumulation and private profit become meaningless.

Why bother colonizing Mars? Why get trapped at the bottom on another gravity well. Planets are dangerous places; once you're in space you're better off staying there.

>>2920892

Yeah. Let's make halos.

>>2920896
I'm down, just need to mine a shit load of asteroids i guess.

>>2920901
that's how I became

>>2920901

Let's just mine mars instead.

>>2920892
Why not use Mars as our spaceshit?

Considering mars distance from the sun, if we somehow managed to get a habitable atmosphere on it, would it even need a magnetosphere?
Would it even be habitable with an atmosphere identical to earths?
I'm thinking it would just freeze over from blotting out the little radiation it currently gets.

>>2920901

Or just a couple.

There's more metal in the NEOs than has been mined by humans on Earth.

There's a good book called: "Mining the Skies"

>>2920921

Inertia

>>2920554
LOL, no.

>>2920932
H-bombs

>>2920925
I keep saying it but it's not sticking.

The magnetosphere is not that important if we are already crafting the atmopshere from scratch. We can alter it's composition to protect us from radiation, and by continually producing atmosphere we can replenish what atmosphere is slowly (read: SLOWLY) being eroded by cosmic forces

BARE-MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS FOR A MORE SURVIVABLE ATMOSPHERE
>Temperature: No greater than about 350 K, and ideally more than 250 K. The more dense an atmosphere is, the more critical the temperature.
>Pressure: 0.062 atm, bare minimum. Any less and a pressure suit is required to prevent bodily fluids from boiling. Note that even breathing 100% oxygen in any less than about 0.1 atm will normally trigger the start of hypoxia symptoms, reducing astronaut effeciency.
>Higher-pressure environments may be survivable to an extreme extent, via gas dilution to prevent toxicity. Such environments are akin to deep-water SCUBA dives, which have been performed at depths resulting in over 50 atm pressure (WITHOUT a pressure suit).
>Composition: No gasses may be present at partial pressures which are toxic via dermal exposure (ammonia, sulfuric acid, etc. may not be present in significant concentration). While not immediately necessary (due to the relative simplicity of breathing masks), the atmosphere's composition would ideally be made breathable. Doing this would require all gasses be brought to non-toxic partial pressures (CO2 - no more than about 0.03 atm; O2 - MUST be between 0.1 atm and 1.0 atm to prevent hypoxia and oxygen toxicity, other gasses exceeding trace levels should be inert).

>>2920947
Or we could just always wear hats and wear lots of sunscreen.

>>2920947
>>2921046
it's not just UV, the surface of Mars is constantly being bathed in cosmic and solar radiation of all sorts. Might as well go swimming in a nuclear plant's cooling tank with that sunscreen on.

>>2920563
thread over.
i dont even need to read the rest.
unles someone discovered how to reignite mars core without blowing the planet in the process.

watch the last part of the documentary the mars underground you can find it on youtube
also for those saying that colonization of mars would cost alot of money watch the whole documentary

>>2921064
The Moon's being bombarded with about twice as much, yet 15 astronauts still volunteered to go swimming for a week.

>>2921069
true
>>2920563
/thread

>>2921069
>without blowing the planet in the process.

that's the problem, I think that's exactly what Mars needs. The Earth was hit by a Mars sized proto planet and it gave us our axis's tilt, our magnetosphere, our moon, our rotation- all things life depends on today.

If you want Mars to be a living planet, you're going to need an apocalypse.

Got anything 10+ times the size of Ceres laying around?

>>2921097
we have pluto, no one want it anymore

>>2921080
Okay smartass, you are comparing a short mission versus a long term (I guess hundreds of thousands of years) deployment and terraforming Mars to support life.

two very different fucking things.

Protip: Life doesn't like to be constantly bathed in radiation for long periods of time. In fact it hates it so much it dies.

>>2921097
...still, would be cheaper to simple built "dome" cities on the damn planet.

>>2921106
okay, you go way the fuck out there to the Ort cloud and bring it back. I'll wait. right here in this spot.

>>2921129
Yes, but, radiation is still a problem for the surface. If light can go through it, then the material won't sufficiently protect from other radiation.

>>2921130
awww how hard can it be...motherfucking big thrusters, steering, ploting coordinates and traveling at the same speed of good old voyager.... eh how many years it took to leave solar system?

Bump from the deaaaaaaaad

>>2920608
>Mars is a small planet, and hence it's gravitational field is not strong enough to permanently hold onto a dense atmosphere

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

IT'S BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE A MOLTEN IRON CORE NOT BECAUSE OF ITS SIZE HAHAHHAA FAGGOT SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU KNOW FUCK ALL CUNT

Honestly, before discussing how to terraform Mars, a more pertinent question must be asked...

Why terraform Mars?

The lower gravity will create a weaker race of humans, their bone density and body strength would be pathetic. Without having to exert as much effort to perform tasks as we do here on earth this race would become obese and elongated, a distasteful combination.

A better idea would be to mine the shit out of Mars, create local industry and use a space elevator to send the finished goods into orbit.

These goods would be assembled into a mega-habitat, some kind of enourmous space habitat which would probably be of the torus design, rotate at a speed which would create an amount of gravity ideal for human habitation and would provide enough habitation for the high hundreds of thousands of humans with enough open space for an ecological wilderness.

Think bigger, think real. Mars has nothing for our species beyond the raw materials it holds and the relative ease of harvesting, processing and exporting them into orbit compared to asteroids or the earth.

>>2923671
It doesn't have a magnetic field because of it's small mass, jus' sayin'

>>2923716
>implying mars has large amounts of useful raw materials, enough that it could be cost effective to mine the place

also, it's about how strong we are relative to gravity on the planet.

>>2923716
>The lower gravity will create a weaker race of humans, their bone density and body strength would be pathetic. Without having to exert as much effort to perform tasks as we do here on earth this race would become obese and elongated, a distasteful combination.
This is assuming we don't have medical nanotechnology or treatments for these things, right? You'll find a lot of these things are usually conceived and invented when the need arises. By the time serious human migration to Mars begins we will have either changed to something transhuman or at least have treatments which prevent bone density from becoming lower than Earth standard.

>A better idea would be to mine the shit out of Mars, create local industry and use a space elevator to send the finished goods into orbit.
NEO's and the asteroid belt are a far better idea. No pesky gravity well and they can be maneuvered toward Earth for quicker mining.

>These goods would be assembled into a mega-habitat, some kind of enourmous space habitat which would probably be of the torus design, rotate at a speed which would create an amount of gravity ideal for human habitation and would provide enough habitation for the high hundreds of thousands of humans with enough open space for an ecological wilderness.
I'm all for creating O'Neill cylinders throughout the solar system. But like I said above, asteroids would be better for that amount of materials.

>Think bigger, think real. Mars has nothing for our species beyond the raw materials it holds and the relative ease of harvesting, processing and exporting them into orbit compared to asteroids or the earth.
Except that it is relatively easy to transform into an Earthlike planet, and would likely become the second home of humanity.

>>2923716
Doesn't change the genes tho.

>>2923716
>The lower gravity will create a weaker race of humans, their bone density and body strength would be pathetic. Without having to exert as much effort to perform tasks as we do here on earth this race would become obese and elongated, a distasteful combination.
So, your only argument against terraforming mars is that it's inhabitants would look slightly different? That's racism, sir.
Excluding, of course, any potential future treatments considering progression in nano tecnology and space medicine.
Even so, if the martians don't want to change their appearance slightly due to a 40% change in gravity, all they'd need to do is to exercise.

>>2923759
>only argument against terraforming mars is that it's inhabitants would look slightly different?
He doesn't want to compete with 2m tall adonis' from a different planet.

>>2923737

I've thought a lot about asteroids/NEOs and how to harvest them without gravity or atmosphere. It would be rather difficult. Moving such objects into earths orbit may not be suck a great idea. There's enough space junk cluttering up our orbit, and finding an asteroid/NEO which is one solid piece, and unlikely to break up, would consume too many resources.

Not saying it's impossible, or even a bad idea, but in the near term mining the moon, or Mars seems a better option to me.

Terraforming Mars does seem rather easy to me, all it seems to need is bunch of mirrors reflecting sunlight to heat it up, releasing atmosphere from the frozen CO2 and liquefying the water, then the seeding of genetically modified bacteria and algae to further break up gasses trapped in minerals. At the initial stage anyway.

Large scale industry would be a massive boon to the atmosphere, releasing large amounts of oxygen which is bonded to the massive amounts of iron.

Venus, motherfuckers
Use flying giant solar panels to break apart the Carbon dioxide, the carbon is transported off-world as a resource, the oxygen binds with planetary metal just like on earth
BAM, livable atmosphere in a matter of centuries

Can we increase the gravity of Mars by dumping mass on it like lead or gold?

If only we could transport some of Venus' atmosphere to Mars. It probably sounds retarded or impossible (for the foreseeable future) but if we could do it, we'd have 3 habitable planets

>>2920662

What are you talking about, Phobos is an artificial spacecraft

>>2923759

Do obese people now do anything about their weight problem? Too few do. How much worse would the problem become on Mars?

Like was stated earlier, and I had forgotten to address; Yes technology is likely to progress to the point where we are able to counter these poor health effects, but it will cost money, lots of money. So you bankrupt a government body by fixing everyone, of only the rich are able to afford the treatments...

The effects on the local society would be disastrous.

Also, in the near term, such solutions are not feasible.

So, how much energy is actually needed to get Phobos onto Mars?
I'd imagine it's way more than we can supply

>>2920756

>Things haven't changed much in the last 39 years

wtfamireading.jpg

>>2923779
If you collided Mars and Venus together it would still be just under 1 Earth mass

>>2923780
Parasol around Venus, freeze the atmosphere out, get droids to build factories and railguns on the surface to scoop up the dry ice and jettison it to Mars or some point in the orbit where it can be redirected there

>>2923773
Automated asteroid mining seems like it would be easier, faster, and while not safer, they're fucking robots, who gives a shit.

>>2923791
Build photovoltaics all over Phobos with its own minerals. Have a good amount of batteries too. Build a few coilguns on the surface and get it to eject little bits of Phobosite in the direction away and infront of Phobos. This will slow it down until it plows into the Martian regolith. But even though I was previously the main proponent of such a plan to terraform Mars, i've abandoned it in favor of using some of Phobos' and Deimos' mass to build a massive orbiting mirror to reflect extra heat and light onto the planet.

>>2923759
The problem I think he's seeing is the amount of physical therapy one would need when emigrating to earth.

Of course, as Inurdaes said, we may have something to combat the effects of bone density loss.

>>2923806
Actually I think that the bone density loss wouldn't be that much of a problem. With the lower gravity humans that originated from Earth would be able to carry stuff around that is 2.5 times heavier than they would be on Earth. So this would probably counteract it a lot. We haven't really got any meaningful studies of bone density loss relating to partial Earth gravity environments. And those temporary excursions to the lunar surface were not long enough at all.

>>2923778
Curious, how would you speed up the rotation of Venus?

Also, I'm not entirely sure what effect its axial tilt will have on liveable conditions.

>>2923809
So could they just wear heavy suits, and exercise more?

>>2923823
yeah.

>>2923810
Two ways.
First, after most of the atmosphere has been frozen out and jettizoned, we let some light in through the parasol to raise the temperature a tiny bit above the freezing temperature of CO2. Then we begin directing Kupier belt comets in toward Venus. To stop them losing their water an extremely thin reflective shroud could surround the comet while it is accelerated in toward the inner solar system. When these comets impact, they should all impact on the 'left' side as Venus rotates counter to every other important celestial body in our solar system. This, while it won't increase the rotational speed by much will be a start.

After the dumping of water is complete, I guess you could put rings of some non-corroding electromagnets around the latitudes of Venus. Orbiting overhead would be solar powered satellites that slowly push Venus to rotate more and more. I'm probably not explaining this all that well, but as long as a constant amount of power is being generated, Venus could have a 24 hour day within a few centuries. I got this idea from the book Blue Mars. I think.

>>2923798

Automated asteroid mining seems like it would be easier, faster, and while not safer, they're fucking robots, who gives a shit.

Just curious as to how much thought you have put into robots mining an asteroid. I agree that automation of such a process would be a much more cost effective method.

Without gravity or atmosphere how can the rock be ground up and moved on to later stages, how can the ores be separated from the plain rock, how will the metal be separated from the slag when molten?

I don't have a great understanding of these processes in the presence of gravity and atmosphere, but these two elements seem to have a considerable impact on the process...

>>2923810
Even if you could do that, it's too close to the sun, you'd have to move it to within the habitable zone.

Strap some thrusters to massive asteroids, bring them to one side of venus, nice and close, use them as a gravity tug. Though it'd be an extremely intricate procedure, changing a planets orbit.

>>2923835
*jettisoned
*Kuiper belt
Typos, typos everywhere today
>>2923810
Axial tilt won't have much of an effect other than the lack of very noticeable seasons. This can be counteracted by the parasol allowing different levels of sunlight to reach the north and southern hemispheres on a six month timeframe.

>>2923839
>how can the ores be separated from the plain rock, how will the metal be separated from the slag when molten?
Modified plasma arc waste disposal plants and centrifuges created for high temperature metals and ores.

You could seal the cometary objects in a tight netting, connect the ends, then "bolo-spin" them until they compact.

It would protect them from some of the mass-loss from sunlight.

To survive the long term... Figure out how to manoeuvre the sun, it'll be our literal "star ship"
Travel around picking up new planets as we go, swap to another star if needed.

Instead of spreading around colonising planets, we have them come to us.

Venus.

500,000,000 years of acid rain.

It would probably have a lot of easy-access surface elements and minerals we don't have.

>>2923854
>manoeuvre the sun
Why would this be a better solution than just going to the planets in our own ships?

>>2923854
I always knew we'd have to take the moon with us.

If we collect the entire Oort cloud, we might have enough to build a triple-axis ringworld, and some mass tugs.

>>2923861
Lets say you find a potential planet to terraform about 10LY away, you colonise the place, unfortunately, due to the cosmic punch in your face called relativity, any information you get from the planet would be 10 years old. You'd be waiting 20 years for any messages you send, as such, updates would be purely one way history lessons.

Going there and taking the planet would be immensely harder, but you'd eliminate the previous problem.

>>2923861
We have everything we need here.

Ships are just an easy way to kill off your people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYt85mcI-bk#t=6m23s

>>2923874
I'd rather perfect quantum entanglement or something, that'd be easier than moving around THE FUCKING SUN'S MASS

>>2923875
But we don't, at least not for long.
http://www.cracked.com/article_19048_6-important-things-you-didnt-know-were-running-out-of.html

>>2923878
Quantum entanglement does not allow for ftl comms

If I were to terraform a planet, I would use small, self-replicating resource driven organisms like bacteria. Possibly genetically modified to target known resources on the planet to produce whatever needed molecules. But all chemical reactions would require solar energy. I would think Venus would be easier to terraform than Mars.

>>2923883
Anything other than quantum entanglement? I'm quoting directly from Mass Effect 2, and yes I know it can't work like that.

>>2923878
Yeah, moving the suns mass would be hard.

But we need a plan in case we never find a way around relativity.

>>2923893
I'm fine with sub-light relativistic travel.

>>2923874
While you're making these stops to abduct random planets, you could set up some robots on one of the planets you don't steal, on the automated process of building a dyson ring

Starting off with a single ring, and building more and more until you get a near dyson sphere.

As you're travelling along, all the stars you've stopped at, are supplying your power stations (the rings) with the vast amounts of energy required for you to keep your star in motion.

>>2923878
>But we don't, at least not for long.

If we can use plasma to break down bound elements, oh yes we do.

>>2923901
Yes, that's what the whole "moving the sun" plan is about.

>>2923911
I don't think you appreciate exactly how much energy is needed to move something of the sun's mass.

>>2923910
I guess.

>>2923911
>911
You have plans to mess with the sun.

You had any plans to fly into the sun recently?

>>2923859

>Acid Rain
>Forecast to be falling yesterday
>Acid Rain
>Only in the past is what they say

I don't think we will be terraforming planets until we get to a level where we're much like Magrathea and can build planets from scratch. Colonies on planets and huge space habitats would probably be best. My personal favorite is building vast floating colonies on Venus, that float in the dense atmosphere about 50km off the surface, where the pressure and temperature are fairly Earth-like.

>>2923920
We would be using mass tugs as a drive. Basically, planets.

>>2923924
Well, the sun's outer layers aren't that hot or dense. You could do it.

>>2923920
Solutions to energy problem:
1.
Break down other stars, when the previous star in our area died, it spread valuable resources, an extremely small amount of that collected up in the mass that became the earth.
Think how much you'll get when you mine stars directly.

2. >>2923906

Obviously, moving the sun is a far future plan, thousands/millions of years away, one we're unlikely to live long enough to put into action.

But I'd sure like to hope we do survive that long.

>>2923920

Instead of moving the sun, couldn't you distort space around it?

Kind of like a bowling ball on a suspended bed sheet, fuck with one corner and the ball will move without touching it and minimal effort.

If we're going to talk bullshit, might as well throw out the idea of a FUCKING HUGE Alcubierre drive.

>>2923927
Heavy Raaaain
You press X to call out Jason's name
Heavy Raaaaaaaain,
The PS3 still has no fucking games

>>2923940
Humans would have to solve the whole the aging problem first, as what you're talking about is a plan costing more money than I can name, and taking longer than any politician would care to invest for.

Now if the people will be here that long, they'll be much more interested in ensuring they have a future to look forward to.

>>2923950
the whole ageing thing*

>>2923906
Your plan is to turn is into a Type III civilisation on the Kardashev scale?

...Cool!

>>2923929
Adding a thick atmosphere to Mars and a thin atmosphere, parasol and comets for water to Venus isn't exactly hard. We don't even have enough mass in asteroids in the Kuiper and Asteroid belt for a planet. Dunno about the Oort Cloud.

>>2923938
Corona is 2 million degrees

>>2923945
Glad to see I wasn't the only one that thought of a fuckhuge Alcubierre drive for moving celestial objects. But first we need negative energy.

>>2923950
Probably gonna have post-scarcity by the time we're doing anything that huge.

>>2923945
What, exactly, are you going to distort space with?

Magnets?

>>2923969
Just looked at the wiki for post-scarcity
>This would be due to an abundance of fundamental resources (matter, energy and intelligence).
Abundant intelligence... Oh how I wish.

>>2923969
>Alcubierre drive

Sure, we'll just turn all of Jupiter in to pure energy to push a 5000 ton ship. What could go wrong? Never mind the sun has too much mass to be included.

>>2923963

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Orxwh-jFGSE

New theme-song.

>>292077720 years ago, we had eight channels on TV. Eight. We'd just upgraded to cable, giving us four extra channels.
We had like 80

> Buying shelves for your house was a major expense... you couldn't just drop $10 at IKEA.
We could

>Our car was a monstrous hunk of steel that got boiling hot inside in the summer, and had frost on the inside all winter. The rear windshield was held onto the frame by a sort of tar, which would melt and drip in the heat.
Must have been an old vehicle. Nothing that was new 20 years ago, was made with a full steel body.

>>2923969

Mars will still have a fraction of the gravity and solar energy of Earth, and Venus will still have a day that's hundreds of Earth days long. Changing these places into something that's going to be more Earth-like than a space habitat would require levels of power that would probably let us make a planet from scratch.

>>2923987
>292077720 years ago, we had eight channels on TV
We have successfully transported someone from the future!

Good pascal, what's it like in your time?

>>2923969
>Corona is 2 million degrees
...and it also has an electrical charge. You could do it with a strong enough magnetic envelope, if not for long.

Escape velocity is another matter, however.

>>2923991
Mars has 0.376G's which will result in everything being taller, and also structurally a bit weaker after a few generations without any treatments.
Mars receives 47% of the solar Energy Earth does, meaning that equatorial Mars gets about the same energy as mid-Canada does. Not that cold. Not to mention that's WITHOUT an orbital mirror reflecting extra light onto Mars.
>and Venus will still have a day that's hundreds of Earth days long.
see
>>2923835

>>2920808
>we will have either changed to something transhuman

One more tripfag to be added to the blacklist.

>>2924008
Good riddance, luddite

>>2923906
If you manage to cover enough stars with dyson spheres, you'll one, blot out the milky way (but who cares), and two, be receiving enough energy to accelerate your star to near enough the speed of light that you could travel between galaxies in a decent amount of time (time dilation).

Would you have our species blotting out entire galaxies with our machines until someone notices us? Or until the universe has nothing more to offer?

They'd come along, laugh at you and show you how to travel ftl. Or destroy you and use the nice infrastructure of energy you have just provided them with.

I do assume this plan assumes you'll never be confronted by aliens?

>>2924014
[citation needed]

Show the math. What is the energy output of the galaxy.

>>2924047
>mfw I have a picture for that

>mfw people think we'll be able to terraform planets any time soon

>we can't even sort out our own planet's climate

>mfw martian civil engineers are paid more than martian scientists.

>>2924056
>mfw you think we won't have the technology to begin terraforming Mars this century
>mfw the problems you just brought up are a result of big business interests fighting as hard as they can to prevent any meaningful change from coal and oil, at least for now, and we know and have the exact technologies which would practically void the problems of anthropological climate change

>>2924057
I look forward to the day /sci/ actually has these types of threads for real.
'FUCKING MARTIAN COCK-SUCKING ENGINEERS GET PAID TWICE HERE ON EARTH ITS THE JEWS PLOT'

>>2924066

I like you.

>>2924066

>mfw your view of reality is completely warped by fantasies, and while it's definitely in the interests of humanity to advance our technology and something we should work towards, to put definites on anything that far ahead is absurd
>Remember people in the '50s thought we'd be in flying cars with moon cities by now? That's you.

>>2924086

Well both are kind of doable now honestly.

>>2924086
"How we view the future, influences how we act today."
-- Robert Zubrin
>Remember people in the '50s thought we'd be in flying cars with moon cities by now? That's you.
To be perfectly honest we didn't have the internet then and most people were largely ignorant, and those that did have a clue of things that would be happening in the future were usually guys analogous to Michio Kaku. Not to mention we'd probably have moon cities or at least a base if Nixon didn't dick everything up.

Bump for god-like planet transforming thread

>>2924147
Hasn't everything been pretty much said?
Provide a continuation of the topic instead of just bumping.

Terraforming mars is a terrible idea. Air pressure on mars:30hPa, air pressure on earth: 1000hPa. Where are you going to get an entire earth atmosphere worth of mass from?

>>2924157
Okay then. We bump up the difficulty.

TERRAFORMING OF LUNA
TERRAFORMING OF MERCURY
TERRAFORMING OF GANYMEDE (has magnetosphere)

LOW GRAVITY
HIGH SOLAR RADIATION
MASSIVE GAS GIANT RADIATION BELT
FINAL DESTINATION

THINK YOU CAN HANDLE IT /sci/?

>>2924165
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Mars#Carbon_dioxide_sublimation
>There is presently enough carbon dioxide (CO2) as ice in the Martian south pole and absorbed by regolith (soil) around the planet that, if sublimated to gas by a climate warming of only a few degrees, would increase the atmospheric pressure to 300 millibars,[citation needed] which is comparable to that at the peak of Mount Everest. While this would not be comfortably breathable by humans, it would eliminate the present need for pressure suits, melt the water ice at Mars' north pole (flooding the northern basin), and bring the year-round climate above freezing over approximately half of Mars' surface.

We need 500 millibars for permanent habitation. This is the air pressure at the 4,000m sea level elevation on Earth mark. If we still don't have enough CO2 we can construct a orbital soletta which metls the regolith in areas that will soon be inundated by seas and oceans, releasing their gas. And also as was discussed earlier, if we were to freeze out Venus' atmosphere we could transport frequent shipments of CO2 from Venus to Mars via the use of railguns. Actually, we wouldn't need to even freeze it out. Though it'd probably be easier.

lol get your facts straight people

At first I thought all the people who just link to someone and say they're stupid without offering an explanation were being mean and splitting hairs over nothing but now I'm beginning to think people not performing the simple act of looking shit up on google and stating their arguments in a clear concise manner is why conversations like this seem to go around in circles.

>>2924173
>quoting wiki article that has no source

>>2924181
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110308144338.htm

Deep polar regions of Mars most likely have a sizeable amount of dry ice in the regolith. The temperature would certainly be low enough year-round.

>>2924167
All problems solved via personal force-field that generates oxygen.

thanks OP, after seeing this thread yesterday I discovered the awesome that is SimEarth

Pic: Luna est. 2500AD

>>2924218

That would be fucking awesome. You could just imagine in a few hundred years time that you could go on holiday to the Moon, or Mars

>youwillneverexperiencethissadfrog.jpg

>>2924241
Too late to explore the earth
Too early to explore the stars

All that's available to us is the fucking oceans.

>>2924241
>>2924249
Reposting from an earlier thread;

The technology:
http://techland.time.com/2011/04/06/spacexs-falcon-heavy-most-powerful-private-rocket-ever/
http://www.universetoday.com/73536/nasa-considering-rail-gun-launch-system-to-the-stars/
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/article4799369.ece

The will:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8bIQLiKi3g
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/02/lord-british-wants-to-take-you-to-space-and-hes-closer-th
an-you-think.ars/3

The time (and one of the main kicks in the ass to get it started):
http://www.hplusmagazine.com/articles/forever-young/manhattan-beach-project-end-aging-2029
http://www.sens.org/sens-research/research-themes
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3329065877451441972#
http://www.nature.com/news/2010/101128/full/news.2010.635.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/nov/28/scientists-reverse-ageing-mice-humans

The economic benefits:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining
>At 1997 prices, a relatively small metallic asteroid with a diameter of 1 mile contains more than $20 trillion US dollars worth of industrial and precious metals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_Earth_Objects#Near-Earth_asteroids
>As of May 2010, 7,075 near-Earth asteroids are known,[14] ranging in size up to ~32 kilometers (1036 Ganymed).[16] The number of near-Earth asteroids over one kilometer in diameter is estimated to be 500 - 1,000.
http://www.virgingalactic.com/

>>2924263
Yes I saw those post, I agree it's possible, but I doubt it'll happen.

My largest hope is for the anti-ageing. Then perhaps "my lifetime" will be an irrelevant statement.

>>2924271
It will come. However I don't doubt there will be some people in high places attempting to suppress the treatments. We might have a bloody world civil war.
------------

There was our region of the galaxy; there was our world. I had found the entry for earth: HUMANITY: THIRD FROM THE SUN. They had heard our television broadcasts and thought them an application for cosmic citizenship. Our technology had been growing enormously (they got that right). Two hundred nation states, about six global powers, the potential to become one planet.

bump

So much nerdgasm. I only wish I will be able to, at least, visit space before I die.

>>2924381
>I only wish I will be able to, at least, visit space before I die.

why? visiting space does nothing.
you can already see it from earth

visit another planet or gtfo

>>2924396
Damn straight. Let's get this party started.

i was born too early...

what the fuck!

>>2924396
Of course, but the first one is already a bit difficult for a common person (by common I mean, I won't be an astronaut).

>>2924409
Only currently.

>>2924408
You were born in exactly the right time. You will experience space travel while knowing that you lived in a time were it was so far off and unavailable. You didn't grow up with it. And this is why it will be special.

>>2924417
>You will experience space travel

ya, space travel to a useless rock

>>2924424
You are living on a rock floating through space

>>2924424
>Luddite detected.

>>2924428
ya but this rock has millions of living species and great history behind it etc

>>2920567

thats why you need to pump co2 out, it creates the greenhouse effect just like on earth, although i do see your point i think. you would need more machines there than currently on earth.

but, i saw a docu with a good theory, although i dont know if it works in practice, but it sounds great.

the idea is to smash something huge into the planet, like a meteor, asteroid w/e. that would create massive heat, deep in the crust where it will release co2, which is already stored on mars.

but who knows if this would actually work, would be cool though.

>>2924434
...so?
That would also happen after a while with the new rock...

>>2924434
Lets bring millions of species and a new history to those rocks.

Life to Mars, Mars to life.

>>2924443
>Lets bring millions of species and a new history to those rocks.

Why? The only justification to go to such a planet is if Earth was literally about to be destroyed.
And mars is so fucking dull nobody would even want to live there.

We should go places that actually have resources

>>2924450

>Why? The only justification to go to such a planet is if Earth was literally about to be destroyed.

Luddite detected.

>And mars is so fucking dull nobody would even want to live there.

This is the science board, people with no curiosity not allowed.

>We should go places that actually have resources

2/10

>>2924458
Hurrr, I think it costs nothing to go to any planet I want and manipulate the atmosphere and start a whole civilization...

No. I have plenty of curiosity but it wont happen unless there is a reason. You cant just say "hurrr its cool."

>>2920760

Protip: Very little of the infrastructure that's the basis of civilization is profitable. Most of it's a giant money sink. If it wasn't for humanity doing things for no other reason then to survive or have convenience, we would have no roads, water treatment plants, dykes, commercial air travel, or anything else that we take for granted.

The notion of humanity wasting resources to colonize another planet is completely in harmony with what we've seen before in history.

The only question is whether or not we can get the massive resources together to do it.

>>2924450
>Why? The only justification to go to such a planet is if Earth was literally about to be destroyed.
"All civilizations either become spacefaring or extinct."
-- Carl Sagan

>And mars is so fucking dull nobody would even want to live there.
0AD - Africa is so dull and full of brown barbarians nobody would even want to live there
1492AD - America is so dull and full of Indians nobody would want to live there
2011AD - Mars is so fucking dull and not full of Martians nobody would want to live there

IT'S DULL BECAUSE THERE ARE NO HUMANS THERE YET

>We should go places that actually have resources
Oh, like near-Earth asteroids, Luna, Mars, the asteroid belt and pretty much the rest of the fucking universe?

>>2924465

You implied there are no resources on Mars.

That's horseshit.

>>2924465
There are numerous reasons to go to Mars. Any one of them could serve as justification for a mission. Remember that the United States went to the Moon just for prestige, not for any real scientific value. A modern space race could accomplish much more.

Mfw all NASA needs to do is mine 1 asteroid and they can do anything they ever want.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining

>>2924430

luddits gonna ludd

>>2924474
That and the fear of weaponization of space, with us in second place being awfully strong.

>>2924475
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining
>At 1997 prices, a relatively small metallic asteroid with a diameter of 1 mile contains more than $20 trillion US dollars worth of industrial and precious metals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_Earth_Objects#Near-Earth_asteroids
>As of May 2010, 7,075 near-Earth asteroids are known,[14] ranging in size up to ~32 kilometers (1036 Ganymed).[16] The number of near-Earth asteroids over one kilometer in diameter is estimated to be 500 - 1,000.

NASA already makes eight times the money it uses from the patents it holds, but all that money goes to the US Treasury.

>>2924465
>You cant just say "hurrr its cool."

I'm sorry, but I HAD to post this pic.

>>2924472
>>2924471
>>2924467
Anyway, they answered your question.

>>2924471
Going to have to do better than that. Give me one reason why we can't wait 100 years for another manned mission.

>>2924484
ya and i hate you because you do stuff because its "fucking awesome"

so why dont you do cocaine and just off bridges again?

>>2924471
>"All civilizations either become spacefaring or extinct."-- Carl Sagan

Name one.

>>2924491
THE MAYANS

>>2924490
I don't think that would be awesome, or would bring any benefit to me or others.

>>2924495
>I don't think that would be awesome, or would bring any benefit to me or others.

Well it certainly wouldn't be awesome to risk lives and waste money on colonizing a planet right now. Nor wouldn't benefit anyone for a looong time.

>>2924495
Obligatory remark about you jumping off a bridge benefiting the rest of us by killing you.

>>2924491
It's a reasonable argument, considering that if a species stays on one planet and never leaves it WILL eventually become extinct. By leaving the home planet and colonizing others you greatly increase your chances of survival.

>>2924481
That actually seems worth it.

>0AD - Africa is so dull and full of brown barbarians nobody would even want to live there
>1492AD - America is so dull and full of Indians nobody would want to live there
>2011AD - Mars is so fucking dull and not full of Martians nobody would want to live there

>implying actual people living there wasn't a proof of concept for colonization.
>implying mars is so easy.

>>2924492
That's true. The Mayans didn't have spaceships.

>>2924500
In the limit to infinity, sure. But why now?

>>2924499
I think the luddites like you, that are holding us back, deserve that privilege.

>>2924498
>Well it certainly wouldn't be awesome to risk lives and waste money on colonizing a planet right now.
>risk lives
>waste money

Well there's your problem right there. You have the wrong opinion.

>Nor wouldn't benefit anyone for a looong time.

I disagree. Also, even if the benefit WAS postponed for a long time, why is that a reason not to start doing it now? Even if we started planning a hundred new nuclear reactors right this moment, they wouldn't be in operation for years. But if we had done that BEFORE, the energy crisis wouldn't have such a pronounced effect.

Waiting until the planet dies to establish colonies is stupid.

>>2924491
Can't do that, buuuuut
http://www.futuretimeline.net/beyond.htm#1000000000
>>2924490
Why so mad?
>>2924488
Rising population of Earth, particularly after the longevity treatments hit the consumer market
That's the most prominent one. Also you find that there was a massive change in people's perception of our planet just because people saw Earth as a pale blue and white globe on the Apollo transmissions. It caused people to think about the fragility of our world, us, and everything we've ever known.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8bIQLiKi3g

>>2924500
>considering that if a species stays on one planet and never leaves it WILL eventually become extinct.

Implying life has ever came about on another planet

>he still thinks that
>laughing sluts

>>2924507
Why not now? Why later?

>>2924510
>Also, even if the benefit WAS postponed for a long time, why is that a reason not to start doing it now?

wat. that can be said about everything ever made

why not now durrrr hurRRR im retarded

>>2924512
>Implying life has ever came about on another planet

It's obscenely likely that it has.

>>2924501
>implying Mars is so hard

>>2924498
>Nor wouldn't benefit anyone for a looong time.
Benefits always arise where previously there was thought to be none. For instance, could you please tell me how you talk to people all over the world with your cellphone?

>>2924516
Yes, you are. I suggest you seek help.

>>2924512
Statistically speaking, it's pretty plausible. Ever heard of Drake's equation?

Okay, a subtopic:
What is your approach to space colonization (within 21st century)
and
What political party do you support and/or vote for?

>>2924517
>It's obscenely likely that it has.

Because you know the conditions that had to be met for life to start? Right?

Its just as likely that life starts very frequently as it is that life only happened 1 time.

>>2924518

If its so easy, then raise the capital and go.

>>2924492

Neanderthals too

>>2924526
100 billion suns in our galaxy
100 billion galaxies in the OBSERVABLE universe with up to a TRILLION stars
8 billion years available for life to evolve

How about naw.

>>2924534
Will do.

>>2924537
Any number you throw at me doesn't matter.

The conditions for life could be met in 1/9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 planets.

>>2924512

He thinks of the quadrillions (possibly) of planets in the universe that only one would harbour life

>laughingbtards.png

>>2924524
My approach:

1. Launch automated units to mine things in space
2. Launch automated units to build things in space
3. Launch people to help the automated units (concurrent with 1&2, as needed)
4. Construct habitats and construction facilities in space
5. Launch people to inhabit the habitats
6. Use space facilities to construct vessels and send resources to Earth
7. Construct mass drivers, launch loops, or other structures to facilitate Earth launches (as the opportunity arises, not necessarily at this point)
8. Launch missions to other bodies (as the opportunity arises, not necessarily at this point)
9. Colonize (hopefully after or during the establishment of space infrastructure)
10. Launch missions to other solar systems
11. Continue expansion

I do not support any political party and I do not vote.

>>2924542

Chances of us being the only life in the universe is absurd

>>2924542
You may have heard the word "probability" tossed around on this board. Do you know what it means?

>>2924552
I like your style.

>>2924550
Hurrr im a retard.

Do you not understand that 1 DNA molecule contains 204 billion atoms? Do you know how many iterations have to be performed for all of those to line up perfectly AND have the exact living conditions? THEN IT HAS TO SURVIVE!

>>2924524
No republicans are allowed in my O'Neil Cylinder.

>>2924567
It works out, as the majority of Republicans seem to not like the idea of living in space.

>>2924562
Yes, you are a retard.

>He doesn't know how the most basic biological chemistry works.

Does anyone smell smoke?

>>2924562
Do you not understand how life developed on this world? Do you not understand that DNA did not spontaneously arise here in a pool of gelatin, fully-formed and ready for action? Do you know the word "evolution," or understand that more than one compound can be used as the basis for life?

Do you intend to sound like a creationist?

>>2924580
Ummm... no.
*whistles*

>>2924573
>>2924584

trolled hard
but good luck finding dem aliens

you never will

>>2924562

Watch this, then shut the fuck up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9eg

>>2924592

obligatory

>>2920632

Is that a REAL photo of Mars?

>>2924592
Oh no trolling on /sci/ whatever will we do

This is completely outside our expectations

I've never even been trolled before

We should just genetically engineer an entire new biosphere for our freshly terraformed Mars. Earth animals are boring and gay. (Except us, we rule)

>>2924592
I don't think anyone said anything about finding aliens. We just say it's highly improbable that we're the only ones here.

>>2924605
No, but have a real Martian sunset.

>>2924617
Earth animals will evolve into different looking creatures quite quickly from the lower gravity.

>>2924617
But I like these animals.

>>2924628
Yeah.
Larger ones.
We can turn dogs into the new horse.
Who wouldn't want to drive their pet to school?

>>2920572 plants releasing CO2

ITT: Technological hubris

>>2924595

Man I love Ode to Joy.

>>2924628
Every time I see that picture of the Martian sunset "The Theme of the Force" plays in my head.

>>2924628
>In the year 2572 AD, Mars has been conquered by furries, our greatest mistake.

>>2924679
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyeYq9XI4MM

>>2924654
Due to the low gravity and (presumably artificially supplied) earth-level atmospheric density, you could also fly a pedal powered helicopter pretty easy.

>>2924683
Why can I see this happening, ergh

Let's say we have a major catastrophe at the martian colony, which on Mars could be quite minor. Some slight oversight, supply shortage or essential component. A small defect in a vital life support system, or natural catastropher, as Mars is cold and windy. What could possibly go wrong? It's almost certain something will.

>>2924721
That why you have multiple nearby habs available in case of an emergency.

>>2924721
So? I fail to see your point.

>>2924721
Let's say we have a major catastrophe at the Antarctic base, which on Antarctica could be quite minor. Some slight oversight, supply shortage or essential component. A small defect in a vital life support system, or natural catastrophe, as Antarctica is cold and windy. What could possibly go wrong? It's almost certain something will.

>>2924743
HOLY SHIT GET OUT OF MY HEAAAAAAAD
I was like 'Aww shit I should've replaced Mars with Antarctica'

>>2924753
But you did. Partner.

:D

The point is, the colony is pretty much fucked. I dunno if earthers will support a mission where EVERYONE DIES!

>>2924757
Hehh
>>2924760
Not if you have backup habs.

>>2924760
The risk of death is pretty hard to eliminate. As long as you do things properly, though, built-in redundancies should be enough to carry you through. There's a reason basically every spacecraft has 3-4 backups for every system.

>>2924760
I doubt that will be the case.
HOWEVER, I know what you mean. People will freak out if, let's say, a couple of persons die (of course, let's hope that doesn't happen), and will go all "HURR DURR ESPICE DRANGERUSS", holding back the whole thing even more.

>>2924540
Man, I wish flags like this were updated. As a vexillologist, the resolution makes me cry.

>>2924790

>>2924805
Better than most of the flags I know (seriously, most flags are awful).

>>2924833
Why thank you. It was created in the TRS flag thread a few months back.

>>2924840
Yeah, I was there, it was a pretty nice thread.

NOW, TO TASMANIA!

>>2924833
As a design, yes it's quite good.

>>2924858
Alrighty then

Wow, this thread has almost maxed out. Been a while since a fuckhuge terraforming thread.

Bump for remaining 14 posts of discussion

This thread is dildos.

what about the lack of magnetic field?
Even if an atmosphere was made solar flares would wipe it out
I believe that, that is how Mars got to be how it currently is in the first place

>>2924917
Your refusal to read the thread is vexing to me.

Inurdaes is a mentally challenged 15 year old kid who tries to compensate his mental retardation by trying to be scientifically literate, but yet failing at it, picking up only unrealistic science fiction child story bullshit.
Pic very related.

>>2924917
Lack of magnetosphere is not quite as big a problem as Mars is further from the sun and when we raise the atmospheric pressure we can add extra ozone/insert molecule here and so forth to counteract the radiation.
>Even if an atmosphere was made solar flares would wipe it out
Naw dude. Dude. Naw.
http://bigthink.com/ideas/24011
>Answer: You are absolutely correct. Mars is a small planet, and hence it's gravitational field is not strong enough to permanently hold onto a dense atmosphere, but it is sufficient to hold onto an atmosphere for thousands to millions of years, which is enough for us. Once we terraform Mars, there will be enough of an atmosphere to take of all our needs for generations to come.
>I believe that, that is how Mars got to be how it currently is in the first place
It was its small mass that made its early magnetosphere die when the core cooled, and then because volcanism and tectonic activity stopped so did the adding of CO2 into the atmosphere. After a while, the oceans froze, the atmosphere that wasn't swept away was frozen deep into the polar latitudes and Mars became the dry cold place it is today.

>>2924931
Anonymous poster is some random guy that posts in every second thread I'm in with accusations that I already admitted a month and a half ago and am continuing to admit today.
And it's 16.

>>2924948
>>2924948
>>2924948
>>2924948
>>2924948
>>2924948
>>2924948
>>2924948
>>2924948
>>2924948
The global rule number 2 states that all posters under 18 years old will be banned, regardless of the board they post or posted in.

>>2924948
If I was as dumb as you, I would already kill myself.

>>2924956
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4chan#Background
If you would kindly post the first sentence, good sir.

Coming back to the thread topic somewhat, how valuable is Phobos supposed to be approximately in mineral wealth?

>>2924956
Better start hitting that report button, then.

>>2924959
Needs a trollface in there to be troll science

>>2924931
Ad hominem much?

>>2924970
Then its not troll science

D'awwww, hit the bump limit

Until next time.

>>2924964
Inurdaes, have you ever considered killing yourself? You seem to be too dumb to live.

>>2925010
He probably started crying and told his mommy about what those mean people told him.

>>2924655

Obviously never heard of respiration

>laughinggirls.jpg

>>2924976

bump

I think you might want to make it into a corsucant-like planet. Turn the entire surface and burrow deep into the ground turning the whole thing into one arcology. Inside there'd be atmosphere, crop production, etc. and it wouldn't matter that outside the atmosphere is thin and everything is harsh. I'm not sure what the main power source would be though, it's not like geothermal is viable on dead a planet.

fuck change