/sci/ - Science & Math

op here.
reffering to the "closing" of us government

>>2845539
no idea. I thought it was enforced weekend day off for the government.

>>2845537

Nothing special really, they already have another weeks extension.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_on_re_us/us_spending_showdown

>>2845537
business as usual for security entities and critical services, mostly just the massively bloated civil civic bureaucracy backend having a holiday.

>republicans push for 700 billion dollar tax cuts, come up with 60 billion in spending cuts, call democrats irresponsible with the deficit.

op here.
thanks guise <3
nohomo

>>2845537
>What the FUCK is gonna happen friday?
It will rain french fries. The sky will be delicious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKH5S5IpGdk

If it happens, people will cry, the media will call it the worst example of inefficient government and both sides will blame the other, then things will continue as normal. If it doesn't both sides will commence to patting themselves on the back and things will continue as normal. Either way, we still get bent over...with no Vaseline.

>>2845571
Both sides will blame each other, but which sides the public blames will be a large factor next year.

> demand spending reductions for programs of which the poor benefit
> lower taxes for the rich
> implying this is not a vendetta against Democratic voters

Oh you, Republicans.

Holy shit, I didn't even notice this was happening. Anybody willing to post a tl;dr on the situation?

>Intend to lower education spending and raise defense spending. Implying this is not a vendetta against educated people.

As a broke ass student who just got into the school of my dreams I'm freaking the fuck out over this.

Fuck republicans.

ITT cryto-kykes blaming republicans

Saturday, then sunday.

The real fireworks come when no one will buy US debt so there is no more money to spend or they start printing more and cause explosive inflation. And sorry, you won’t be able to tax your way out of it.
At least Europe will get there first, sorry guys Germany can’t bail out everyone when it will need bailing out too.

>>2845623
Fuck, we're going to be Zimbabwe 2.0

ITT: faggots whining that someone is weakly suggesting that maybe eating all the seed corn isn't a good idea.

>>2845628
US bonds had AAA status for decades, (basically extremely low risk, equivalent of a perfect credit score) last year they lost that rating.

Basically the government is out of money, again. Now instead of the capitalist corporate market crashing, the US government is crashing. Museums, the IRS, military, etc will lose all their funding.

All part of the corporate plan here in the US.

>>2845649
I told everyone the day of revolt will come. hopefully you faggot have your gun and bullets by now. just wait for the oil price spike it will begin.

>>2845649

>What the FUCK is gonna happen friday?
I'll tell you what.
First, I'll wake up in the morning: around seven a.m. I've got to be fresh, so I'll head downstairs and grab a bowl and some cereal. I'll realize time is ticking away and while seeing everybody rushing I'll go outside to the bus stop so that I can catch the bus. I'll see my friends kicking in the front and back seat, making me wonder which seat I should take. It'll be friday.

Here's the problem; The Dems want to raise taxes (a good idea during a time of governmental financial deficit) while increasing spending (a bad idea during such times) essentially making the extra tax revenue void. The Reps want to cut taxes (a bad idea during a deficit) and cut spending (a good idea during such times). If they could only agree to raise taxes AND cut spending things would so much better. You may feel the pangs of the higher taxes now, but you'll be thankful in a few years.

>>2845653
>>2845654
>>2845649
>HURP! lets rip open the chicken and get all the eggs now!
you faggots and your crony capitalism are a big contributor to this mess so go fuck yourselves.

>>2845661
>capitalism bad lol

what a childish way to view the world. Enjoy you're black and white reality.

>>2845665
capitalism, corporatism, commercialism, democracy, and Communism are all the same

a monetary Fascism as opposed to capitalism and nationalism are OK

a Republic nationalism is PERFECT

up with Anglo-Saxon nationalism in America, or Germanic nationalism

down with everything else

>>2845658
but raising tax RATES doesn’t mean more actual tax collected, if you keep ripping resources from productive enterprises you will shrink the economy, leaving you worse off. Particularly when the debt is so big that growing your way out is the only way in the long term.

The soviets were right about everything.

>>2845665
>you're

>>2845678
Nice red herring bro. You obviously have nothing to contribute. Move along, the adults are talking now.

>>2845676
> but raising tax RATES doesn’t mean more actual tax collected
I think we're gonna need more evidence than that, considering tax rates are at the lowest in decades. There's no sign pointing that we're at the right side of the Laffer curve.

>>2845675
>comparing capitalism with fascism and extreme right nationalism

Get a clue bro. If I remember correctly, most of the larger "socialist" governments devolved into nothing more than dictatorships anyways. I'm sure you'll come out with some euro trash about Sweden or some other tiny country, but the truth is a socialist system has never been successfully applied to a nation the size of the US with such a vast and globalized economy.

More theatrics. Neither side is really serious about cutting the deficit. We're on the path to running 1.5 trillion+ deficits ANNUALLY, and these cocksuckers want to slash only 61 billion from that?? Fucking retards....

>>2845693
I was contrasting them you dumb mother fucker

>>2845658
They would compromise if the Republican base, especially the lol tea party, weren't so keen on shouting NO COMPROMISE NO COMPROMISE. Hell, there was a poll a short time ago in which 60% of Republicans didn't want any compromise, even if that ended in government shutdown. Now Boehner is desperately trying to get a deal and the base is throwing a tantrum.

>>2845693
>Mr. Wright, this "air plane" you keep talking about has never been shown to work
>Therefore, it cannot
above is approximately how you sound right now

inb4 faggotry

>>2845697
> defense
> education
> health care

Pick two. Which ones do you cut down?

>>2845537

Same thing that happened in the 90s meaningless dick waving from both sides of the aisle until reality sets in.

My question is if these "no essential" services can be shut down due to lack of funding temporarily, that is they are not critical to the functioning of the governmental body, then why have them at all?

>>2845665
youjustwentfullretard.jpg
Crony capitalism isn’t free market, its where a supposed free firm is the pet of the state and protected from competition while milked for political support, basically what you have in most social democracies. The irony of coarse is that they get this way under the guise of “consumer/labor protection” this is what has been happening to US finical institutions for years.

EXPLAIN ECONOMICS TO ME

We have resources, we have labour, but we have no money. What the fuck happened?

>>2845710

All three of them until we get to the point where we're only spending what we take in as tax revenue.

>>2845705

>Mr. Wright, this "homeopathic medicine " you keep talking about has never been shown to work

>Therefore, it is unlikely that it will work and thus we should not discontinue the use of our functional, albeit imperfect, treatments for disease in favor of this unproven technique

Nothing that never happened before,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_government_shutdown_of_1995

>>2845704
dude, the ‘no compromise’ plan is a fart in a fucking hurricane, it is a 95% concession to the dems. 60 billion is almost meaningless.

>>2845705
There are currently no models for such a government to be able to operate on a such a scale. Therefore, without going back to the drawing board on the entire matter, it's hard to even want such a system to be instituted in the US right now. I would not want a plane that has been shown to be inoperable to be built and loaded with passengers and sent on it's maiden voyage across the pacific ocean.

Our government runs on a system that contradicts basic economics. All the businesses that keep this retarded form of spending are also the ones making money from it.

But what does anyone care right? Just as long as you maintain the illusion of security, they know you won't do shit.

>>2845722

"Money"(finance) became an industry instead of a tool that we use to insure the efficient flow of goods and services through the economy.

That's the abstract.

A more technical explanation involves debt, inflation, the flawed modern economic model ect ect

an even more technical explanation involves sub-prime loans, bubbles, over spending, over taxing, under taxing the Federal reserve and jews

raise taxes, cut spending (as has been mentioned already)
Open, but regulated economy
No more government bailouts for companies that continue to spend foolishly and other such nonsense
Give Iraq a timeline to get it's shit together; if they have not done so in said time they are to be left to deal with it
Give timeline for Afghan pullout (lol), preferably after the Iraq pullout, so they know we mean business.

Of course, none of this will happen, and we'll once again come up with some contrived way to keep the fucked up system we have and still pull ourselves out of our massive dept. Thus continuing the vicious cycle.

>>2845722

>Lowered taxes during Bush admin
>fought 2 large scale wars
>paid for it mostly through loans from Japan/China/etc.
>Experienced a massive recession due to shady business practices involving CDO's and mortgages. This in turn caused many businesses to fail, forcing a spike in unemployment.
>Massive losses to companies "forced" the US to bail out the big banks and private insurance companies. Further spinning us into debt and enlarging the deficit.
>Obama administration refuses to increase taxes
>Tax revenue is the largest source, no revenue and all spending = larger deficit.

>>2845722
>>2845722
What happened was a debt based economy caught up with itself. Everyone was sold on the idea that corporations have to constantly expand as fast as possible, and in order to do so, have to maximize there purchasing power.
Enter Wall Street. From the basics of the stock market to the complicated financial derivatives, theoretically Wall Street "helps" companies stay liquid by leveraging their assets. But with every change of hands the pieces of pie get smaller. So the bankers essentially siphon of billions of dollars for the favor of providing "purchasing power."
The executives of most of these companies don't care, for the most part, because they don't own them, and they are picking up billions themselves. They do their best to lobby the government into picking up the tab when they screw up, for the sake of "jobs" or "homeowners" or whatever they manage to use to drum up support, but the truth is, they're just looking for tax subsidies to offset the ridiculous financial risks they take on.
How does the government pay for this? By borrowing money, of course, and operating on a deficit.
In the end the bill is footed by a) the taxpayers and b) average Joe shareholders. There's still more complication involved but I'm tired of typing.

>>2845710
defense
We're not getting our money's worth with the money we pour into the MIC. Fuck the middle east.

LOWER TAXES ON RICH CUT FUNDING FOR NPR/Planned Parenthood/Pell grants/Head Start/NIH

Exon/GE paid 0 dollars in corporate taxes AND THAT IS PERFECTLY OK

Republicans herp derp

>>2845824
>there
>there
Oh god no I'm sad that I did that. In my defense I'm badly in need of sleep.

Donald Trump is first in the latest polls for a 2012 Republican nominee

>mfw

trolls want this to b repulafag vs democrat but if drive to rich nebor hoods and rob them during the shutdown we the people win

>>2845810
>Obama administration refuses to increase taxes

The fuck? There's a group of people refusing to raise taxes, and they're not Obama's.

>>2845829

Its a LOT more than just defense dude. We didnt even need to go into fucking Iraq... And OEF is long from done... Fucking Osama is most likely dead from the relentless bunkerbuster assaults.

>>2845846
i guess he would be able to actually run the government

although he would still use it to make himself moneyq

>>2845848
>Implying Obama is increasing taxes

>>2845793

I'll give you one better

End all foreign military engagements

Completely free economy expect in the areas of finance(heavily regulate finance)

Introduce revenue flow vs spending laws that require all federal laws to first be within the current budget before being put into effect.

Introduce a competing US currency and slowly phase out the fed, and the debt based monetary system along with it.


Eliminate Corporate person hood.instead making the chief owner of a company legal and financial proxy of a corporation.

The last one is critical.

That eliminates the issues associated with taxing a company or industry as these taxes are invariably passed onto consumers or workers.

By making the Chief owner the legal proxy not only do you tease apart these issues you also reduce the need for many corporate taxes an regulations.

For example I own an oil company, and decide I'm going to drill off shore using the minimal amount of safety and fail safe technology available to save profit. The operations go sour and suddenly I've polluted a huge chunk of the ocean and destroyed the lives and businesses of thousands of individualizes.

As a corporate entity what is to me? I may loose some revenue due to law suites and government action, hell I may even be shut down if my act was egregious enough, but to me as the CEO or member of the board of directors what is really at stake? A few million in lost wages until I land another high paying Job? some bad press?

But what if I as an individual did the same thing?

Suddenly I'm facing criminal negligence charges and possible prison time.

That makes a huge difference in my conduct.

>>2845852
He declared bankruptcy twice, and he is a fucking birther....just no

>>2845857
*face palm*
No. That was not the implication. At all. Learn to read.

>>2845830
>company is losing money, whine about lack of tax money.DEEEERP!!

>>2845858
but you dont own most of an oil company, no one owns most of an oil company, theres no such thing as a chief owner, the reason corporations are treated seperately from people is because they are owned by multiple people

>>2845867
GE profited like 14 billion dollars, and Exon mobile is one of the most profitable companies in the world, yet my dad who owns a small business employing a handful of people paid more in corporate taxes then Exon and GE combined

>>2845847
operation tax day
on apr 15 we all rob corporate offices to tax them
cops cant stop it all

>>2845848

Republicans refuse to raise them - Agreed.
But Obama hasnt shown interest in doing it either, Lots of democrats however want to raise them though.

>>2845870
>the reason corporations are treated seperately from people

> implying corporations aren't already treated as people
> but only when it benefits them
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood
> The laws of the United States hold that a legal entity (like a corporation or non-profit organization) shall be treated under the law as a person except when otherwise noted.

>>2845877
Well, Obama and the Dems wanted to raise taxes on anyone making over 250,000 a year, but Republicans said no, so Dems said what about over a million? Republicans said no again.

Had Dems not accepted the Bush tax cut extensions, then taxes would have been raised on the middle/lower class too, which we really shouldn't do right now.

>>2845870


"Chief owner" was the phrase I was using for the owner of companies in this non corporate personhood scenario.

And yes now many people "own" a corporation, but I was arguing that one person should, for legal purpose, "be" the company.

For example instead of buying ownership of a company in the form of stocks, you buy profit shares of a company, while ownership of the company, and the companies legal and financial standing is that of this "Chief owner:.

>>2845734
Man, when I predicted faggotry I didn't think I'd be *this* right!

Russia, China, etc were not legitimate tests of anything

inb4 more faggotry

>>2845875
What can you posably get out of it a computer maby a plasma screen

>>2845734
And if a homeopathic cure comes around that actually works, it'll be acknowledged.

We can see that homeopathic medicine doesn't work though because we can test it.

You can do the same thing with socialism/communism, but Russia, China, etc were not legitimate tests of the idea. They failed for *reasons*, and if those reasons can be understood and corrected for, then socialism/communism might actually work.

Saying "it hasn't worked yet, therefore it can't work ever and the entire idea is completely worthless" is invalid logic, sorry bro.

>>2845891

I agree it was a very tricky situation. Fucking republicans set up the worst possible outcome for everyone with their thievery. But the only way for the government to sustain itself is by taxing its constituents. Obama just recently proposed those tax increases too - something like 2% for the wealthiest. IMO it shouldnt even be a fucking debate, the wealthiest 2% is something like 6million people. Putting more of a burden on people struggling to make ends meet just seems ridiculous and inhumane.

>>2845917
Actually communism worked in a sense.

It did transform an endless tundra into an industrial superpower within a few decades.

Even if it was no way sustainable it certainly was impressive.

Fuck, we need to set up a /sci/ commune.

The ideas behind technocracy are all well and good, but it's even more corruptible than what we have. George Bush Jr. graduated from Yale, remember.

>>2845919
> Obama just recently proposed those tax increases too
>>2845877
> But Obama hasnt shown interest in doing it either

Make up your mind.

>>2845919
The wealthiest 1% in this country have 20% of the wealth, Republicans Lower their taxes, and cut the programs that help the lower/middle income families. Cuts to Pell Grants, Head Start, and motherfucking nutrition for low income pregnant women....like...really?

>>2845929

>wealthiest 1% of the country
>20% of the wealth

LOL NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - 400 Americans controll over 50% of it! thats not even counting the rest of the 1%....

>>2845929
And if they don't get their way with tax legislation, Republicans will also block laws designed to protect rape victims and 9/11 first aid responders!

>>2845928

I guess I did say that a bit wrong. I meant to say Obama hasnt pushed the taxation issue with the merit it deserves. For the past few years he glossed over it mainly because of the recession, I feel like he doesn't want to push it though because he knows he cant win. And thats why I made the assertion that he isnt showing interest in it. It was a bit misleading though, I apologize.

>>2845925
Democracy/technocracy hybrid.
Technocratic leaders are elected to their posts by people who have expertise pertaining to that field. So for instance, if there is an election for Minister of Health, doctors, physicians etc would be able to vote.

>>2845937
Wow, they make almost as much as those evil Wisconsin teachers.

>>2845929
>>2845929

>>2845904
even beter direct access to servers, files & corp secerets to release freely
think about it diebold voting machine code!
the real bp energy outlook
what corporations fund and the account numbers
in one day we could return democracy to america

>>2845942

How does it prevent corruption?

>>2845917

>And if a homeopathic cure comes around that actually works, it'll be acknowledged.

A) The concept of homeopathic medicine is illogical and fundamentally flawed to begin with

B) Any conformation of it as a valid medicine would come from sample studies. You wouldn't suddenly replace every cancer patients chemo therpay treatment with rose water. It's not logical.

>We can see that homeopathic medicine doesn't work though because we can test it.

We've seen tests of socialism.

>You can do the same thing with socialism/communism, but Russia, China, etc were not legitimate tests of the idea.

No true Scotts man. ect ect

>They failed for *reasons*, and if those reasons can be understood and corrected for,

Unless the concept is fundamentally flawed.

Be that flawed as a model(theoretically) or in execution or both.

So far it seems to be the latter.

>Saying "it hasn't worked yet, therefore it can't work ever and the entire idea is completely worthless" is invalid logic, sorry bro.

saying It hasn't worked, and we have no reason to suspect it can work, and therefore trying to implement it on a large scale has a higher probability of causing greater problems than solving them is completely valid logic.

>>2845937
>>2845937
Googled it, I was wrong, it is actually around 40%, the top 1% have 40% of the wealth. They have 20-25% of the income though, which is what i was thinking of i guess

>>2845942
I understand why you'd like that, but restricting voting power to a limited number is always going to be tricky. Doctors, for example, already have systems in place to obstruct too many people entering medicine, driving the supply higher and reducing their pay. Add political power into the mix and you get an even greater incentive to make your group as selective as possible, and it is unlikely for the main criteria for entrance to be based on aptitude over connections to existing doctors.

>>2845945

pfft - the 1% are mad jelly the teachers get benefits like vacations and health insurance. Meanwhile they work tirelessly on their million dollar yacht's cruising the Mediterranean and occasionally caring about the country by building mansions (summer homes).

>>2845955

>implying that still isnt a fucking absurd number.

>>2845954
>Unless the concept is fundamentally flawed.
Yeah, exactly.

But so far nobody has even come close to showing that socialism/communism failed in the countries it was tried in for reasons fundamental to the system itself, and I very much doubt you're going to be the first to do so.

Same shit as usual.

>>2845958
>>2845945

Do you honestly think paying teachers more results in a better quality of education/better educational results for students?

I mean if I take two identical groups(culturally, ethnically, economically ect ect)

Select two teachers with identical backgrounds and pay one highly and pay the other the average teachers wage do you really think the group with the highest paid teacher will fair better?

>>2845958
this is true. I personally know a couple billionaires who travel world wide very often. it was mostly for business though.

>>2845963
>implying that I was implying that it wasn't an absurd number

>>2845971

Nah im not saying that at all - Im saying its not right to kill their benefits. The rich are making out like bandits during this recession. Record profits AND record paychecks.... but the only people making sacrifices are the working class.

>>2845971
You're missing the point. The Tea Party is trying to make Wisconsin teachers as leechers who make a shitload of money, and therefore deserve to have their wages reduced. While at the same time arguing that the richest people have too much taxes and deserve to retain more of their wages.

>>2845971
I blame the teachers Unions honestly. I went to a shitty public school, people there hat had been teaching for decades and had no fucking business being there, but can't be fired because of tenure.

I think we should have stricter requirements on becoming a teacher, and increase the pay accordingly. Attract the best and the brightest, and then give teachers bonuses based on performance/going to the shitty detroit schools because they want to make a difference

Unpopular position alert!

I'm quite interested in anarchism at the moment. Before you whip out the human nature argument on me, consider this.

I concede that humanity is composed of assholes. I don't quite see how giving any small group of these assholes power over the rest of the assholes will make life any more bearable for all of the poor assholes underneath the assholes with the power.

Read the Anarchist FAQ, I think that even if you do not agree with it, you'll have a greater understanding of anarchism at the end and can understand where its supporters are coming from.

http://anarchism.pageabode.com/afaq/index.html

>>2845963
>>2845955

Good point, you know the Sentinelese presumably have a very a high level of wealth equality within their society.

Truly this must be a Utopia

>>2845972

My uncle works at a big investment firm - I have lunch with him and occasionally one of his clients will call him from Switzerland or some yacht in the middle of nowhere asking about their account. Thats about as much work as they are gonna do for the rest of the year. Its ridiculous.

>>2845987

Sweden has pretty good income equality... actually most of those Nordic countries have good pay equality.

>We've seen tests of socialism.
Not really.
>No true Scotts man. ect ect
I don't think you really understand the "No True Scotsman" fallacy, so allow me to educate you.

A legitimate test will be one that shows whether or not the flaws of socialism are inherent to the system. Of course a poorly executed attempt will suck, we want to see if the suckage is inherent or if it can be fixed. As of the time of posting, no tests have done that, so they by definition do not meet the criteria for "legitimate", and so the No True Scotsman fallacy does not apply.

The More You Know...
>>2845954
>Unless the concept is fundamentally flawed.
Yeah, exactly.

But so far nobody has even come close to showing that socialism/communism failed in the countries it was tried in for reasons fundamental to the system itself, and I very much doubt you're going to be the first to do so.
>So far it seems to be the latter.
According to your expert analysis? Don't make me laugh.
>saying It hasn't worked, and we have no reason to suspect it can work, and therefore trying to implement it on a large scale has a higher probability of causing greater problems than solving them is completely valid logic.
I don't think I ever said that, but keeping trying bro.

>>2845924
Is that a water mark or stenography
and bump for operation tax day

>>2845981
Agreed. If I was involved in negotiations with teachers I'd exchange higher wages with lower job security. I'd be happier on either end of the deal there, because I know how to be a bloody good teacher.

>>2845981

I agree the tenure clause needs to be revised. But instead of making that argument they just want to take EVERYTHING away from the teachers. Thats just plain fucked up.

>>2845954
>We've seen tests of socialism.
Not really.

>No true Scotts man. ect ect
I don't think you really understand the "No True Scotsman" fallacy, so allow me to educate you.

A legitimate test will be one that shows whether or not the flaws of socialism are inherent to the system. Of course a poorly executed attempt will suck, we want to see if the suckage is inherent or if it can be fixed. As of the time of posting, no tests have done that, so they by definition do not meet the criteria for "legitimate", and so the No True Scotsman fallacy does not apply.

The More You Know...

>Unless the concept is fundamentally flawed.
Yeah, exactly.

But so far nobody has even come close to showing that socialism/communism failed in the countries it was tried in for reasons fundamental to the system itself, and I very much doubt you're going to be the first to do so.

>So far it seems to be the latter.
According to your expert analysis? Don't make me laugh.

>saying It hasn't worked, and we have no reason to suspect it can work, and therefore trying to implement it on a large scale has a higher probability of causing greater problems than solving them is completely valid logic.
Putting words in my mouth much? I don't think I ever argued that, bro.

>>2845977
>>2845980

The rich sucking the system tit dry in no way justifies another group of doing it.

What entitles them to these benefits? If it is not helping educational outcome for students why waste the extra money?

Don't be angry at the tea party for protesting over paid union workers be mad at them for letting the wealthy slide when doing the same shit to a larger degree.

>>2845988
such is life. they don't give second thought spending on a 100k bag(true event I witness).

>>2846004
Bean Bag Buccaneers is a two player children's game, the object of which is to pick up your treasure chest on the central island and sail back safely.

Each player has a giant sailing ship as their main game piece. Each ship has a removable sail, two trigger-action side panels, and a huge spring-driven cannon. Players take turns moving forward along a prescribed track and shooting bean bags at their opponent's ship. A hit on one of the side panels will force it to pop off and give the player a free shot at the other side; a hit forcing the sail off becalms the ship for a turn.

To add to the pirate flavor, each player also has an eye patch. Wearing these will slightly affect depth perception and add a marginal bit of sport to the shooting.

This game retailed for the somewhat impressive sum of $16 back in 1962. With its huge plastic ships (close to a foot long), giant vinyl play mat, and the eye patches, it may well stand as one of the more overproduced games of the early 1960s.

>>2846001

First of all - THEY ARE NOT - REPEAT ---- NOT --- FUCKING NOT - overpaid. Get that stupid idea out of your head. They in a lot of cases barely make enough to live on their own. The biggest ACTUAL perk they have, is the instant tenure clause that doesn't allow them to be fired. And that SPECIFICALLY is what should be looked at. As a state workers they should get health benefits, all other government employees get that perk, why are teachers not good enough for it?

Now if you think I am missing something from my perspective please enlighten me.

>>2846010

>>2846011
> FUCKING NOT - overpaid. Get that stupid idea out of your head.
Calm. Down. This discussion is going rather civilized for this board.

>>2846011
Bean Bag Buccaneers is a two player children's game, the object of which is to pick up your treasure chest on the central island and sail back safely.

Each player has a giant sailing ship as their main game piece. Each ship has a removable sail, two trigger-action side panels, and a huge spring-driven cannon. Players take turns moving forward along a prescribed track and shooting bean bags at their opponent's ship. A hit on one of the side panels will force it to pop off and give the player a free shot at the other side; a hit forcing the sail off becalms the ship for a turn.

To add to the pirate flavor, each player also has an eye patch. Wearing these will slightly affect depth perception and add a marginal bit of sport to the shooting.

This game retailed for the somewhat impressive sum of $16 back in 1962. With its huge plastic ships (close to a foot long), giant vinyl play mat, and the eye patches, it may well stand as one of the more overproduced games of the early 1960s.

>>2846015
Bean Bag Buccaneers is a two player children's game, the object of which is to pick up your treasure chest on the central island and sail back safely.

Each player has a giant sailing ship as their main game piece. Each ship has a removable sail, two trigger-action side panels, and a huge spring-driven cannon. Players take turns moving forward along a prescribed track and shooting bean bags at their opponent's ship. A hit on one of the side panels will force it to pop off and give the player a free shot at the other side; a hit forcing the sail off becalms the ship for a turn.

To add to the pirate flavor, each player also has an eye patch. Wearing these will slightly affect depth perception and add a marginal bit of sport to the shooting.

This game retailed for the somewhat impressive sum of $16 back in 1962. With its huge plastic ships (close to a foot long), giant vinyl play mat, and the eye patches, it may well stand as one of the more overproduced games of the early 1960s.

>>2846004

I know... Ive seen some stupidly absurd expenditure of cash too.

>mfw 100k on a bag...

THIS THREAD IS NOW ABOUT FUCKING BEAN BAG BUCCANEERS

>>2846021
>>2846022
>>2846015
>>2846016
Bean Bag Buccaneers is a two player children's game, the object of which is to pick up your treasure chest on the central island and sail back safely.

Each player has a giant sailing ship as their main game piece. Each ship has a removable sail, two trigger-action side panels, and a huge spring-driven cannon. Players take turns moving forward along a prescribed track and shooting bean bags at their opponent's ship. A hit on one of the side panels will force it to pop off and give the player a free shot at the other side; a hit forcing the sail off becalms the ship for a turn.

To add to the pirate flavor, each player also has an eye patch. Wearing these will slightly affect depth perception and add a marginal bit of sport to the shooting.

This game retailed for the somewhat impressive sum of $16 back in 1962. With its huge plastic ships (close to a foot long), giant vinyl play mat, and the eye patches, it may well stand as one of the more overproduced games of the early 1960s.

>>2846016

Sorry - I apologize if you got offended. I felt offended by that ignorant remark though.

>>2846022

wtf is this bean bag bullshit - im not reading his post.

>>2846011
Some of them are overpaid. In Rhode Island last year
> Apparently 50% of the students at the school are failing all of their classes, and the graduation rate is also under 50%
>he teachers at the high school make $70,000-$78,000, as compared to a median income in the town of $22,000

But there was a happy ending!
>The super Intendants plan calls for teachers at a local high school to work 25 minutes longer per day, each lunch with students once in a while, and help with tutoring
>The teachers' union has refused to accept these apparently onerous demands.

Every teacher got fired

>>2846022
Why would I want to fuck a buccaneer? Is that a Johnny Depp buccaneer or a scurvy-filled rotten meat bag buccaneer? A guy needs to know.

>>2846016
being a teacher is not easy job. especially k-8 because of social stigma that they can be pedophile. one little mistake would not only would lose their job but destroy their life. getting barely paid check to check along with the tremendous pressure its no wonder they are pissed.

>>2846030

I think thats a very rare exception... And im not going to rule out the possibility that some teachers like the ones you mentioned might be getting overpaid. I want to caveat this though, its pretty damn rare.

>>2845924

>It did transform an endless tundra into an industrial superpower within a few decades.

I take it you weren't aware that before the bolshy vicks russia used to have an industrial production greater than that of germany, and is predicted to do so yet again within 15 years?

>>2846036
I said before, I went to a shitty public school with shitty teachers. I can count the good ones on one hand, they fact that most of them had jobs means they were over paid. But I suppose that is more of an issue with tenure

>>2846045

Did you ever watch Waiting for Superman or The Lottery? Its pretty good as an intro to whats going on with the tenure system and how it effects the education system. I think the tenure system and its inability to hold teachers accountable for their pupils failure is one of the big reasons we have such shitty test scores among other countries. I want to stipulate its a big reason... theres clearly others like fundies halting evolution and other scientific knowledge progression.

This thread makes me wish most of you fags were sterilized and had your voting rights revoked. It must be painful to be utterly devoid of critical faculties with which you could evaluate the retarded concept of a 'perfect' political system you subscribe to.

By the way, poverty is much more of a problem that focusing on inequality itself. Why shouldn't we work on fixing the former first? It would certainly be a much more productive endeavor.

>>2846057
poverty? oh it is certain not due to favor being extremely one sided for the rich. the underlying problem isn't our corrupted politician allowing corporation to exploit it. right?

>>2846057

whatever - pretentious fuckstick. Theres a laundry list of issues. Poverty is huge but if we just hand out money it isnt going to solve anything. Moreover in order for people to make meaningful contributions to society they need to be educated, If they are sufficiently educated and can fill some capacity in the society than poverty wont be an issue.

>>2846055
There are definitely numerous reasons and funding isn't one of them, but the appropriations of funds I think is the issue. I think the US spends the 2nd most amount of money per student in the world, yet we are 25thish in math/science.

It shouldn't be left up to states either, there needs to be a national curriculum, no bullshit Texas teaching Creationism and taking people like Thurgood Marshall out of their history books

>>2846066

Same with healthcare, We pay a ridiculous amount of money per person in healthcare and dont receive the attention we deserve. But thats an aside.

You bring up a strong issue, I dont know if the federal government can mandate something like that. If it can... that would be a tremendous victory if employed properly... I think what we arent incorporating though is that because education is handled SOOO much on a micro level, individual town school boards and "county" school boards will rage harder than the rich about paying taxes.

>>2845643
Yeah, by Dagong. A fair and balanced CRA if there ever was one.

>>2846077
Right now it can't happen because the tea party would HERP DERP BIG GOVERNMENT, but I think the preamble of the constitution would allow it. "Promote the General Welfare," I think a national curriculum would fall under that.

>>2846080
>>2845643
Yea LOL, the ones that matter, S & P, Moody's, it is still AAA

>Not really.


I'm sorry I didn't realize you live in an alternate timeline.

>I don't think you really understand the "No True Scotsman" fallacy, so allow me to educate you.
A legitimate test will be one that shows whether or not the flaws of socialism are inherent to the system.
Every time the system is implemented we see the same effects.

You argument that non of these were "fair examples" of communism is no true Scotsmen in a nut shell.

The very fact that every time we see the system(the same system you denied has ever been implemented but are now arguing has been implemented but "unfairly") fail when implemented or attempted is strong evidence that the system is flawed. The only question is "why is it flawed"

>Of course a poorly executed attempt will suck,

define a properly executed attempt.

Arguing that something is possible over and over without a successful demonstration of it is simply denying reality.
>we want to see if the suckage is inherent or if it

Every example we have suggest yes.

>can be fixed. As of the time of posting, no tests have done that,

Prepose a test and defined fixed.
>so they by definition do not meet the criteria for "legitimate", and so the No True Scotsman fallacy does not apply.

Wrong. Demonstration of a system in its context(in this case human societies) is the most valid test of a system one can preform.

Denying that the system has never been truly tested because every time it's tested it fails suggest a starting point that assumes success and thus very nicely meets the definition of no true Scotsmen.

>>2846089

These tea-party sheeple... all my rage.

>>2846097
>But so far nobody has even come close to showing that socialism/communism failed in the countries it was tried in for reasons fundamental to the system itself,


We see the same system failing in the same ways across nations and cultures.

Furthermore we know it always fails the question isn't as you suggest "How can we make it work"

The question is "why does it always fail"

>According to your expert analysis?

Yes.


>Putting words in my mouth much? I don't think I ever argued that, bro.

No that was my argument based on your statement that I argued that it didn't work therefor it will never work, but in reality my argument was that the probability of success is so low it doesn't warrant broad application of the system as an alternative to our current system.

>>2846063
Wait, when did I say or imply anything about 'hand[ing] out money' or education? The latter is a problem, but is a very different matter, while the former isn't what I implicitly advocated as a solution to poverty.

>>2846098

>>2846011

You've cut to the heart of the matter other goverment employees shouldn't get these benefits either.

And so what if teachers are not rich?

If they don't like that career path choose another one.

>>2846106

>implying they teach with the ambition to become rich.

1/10

>>2846104

OK - So... cut the philosophical jargon and explain your contention and provide a solution that in your opinion will fix the issue involving education/inequality/poverty. Is that hard?

>>2846105

>>2846117
>>2846110
Ron Paul 2012!
Do away with Big Government and the AIDs-tainted fiat money they print!

>>2846124
Cut taxes on the rich, and um get rid of the EPA/FDA/FED, that would do it, BIG GOVERNMENT DERP HERP REAGANOMICS

>>2846134
I fucking hate Ron/Rand Paul, Libertarians are mentally retarded

>>2846137
TRICKLE DOWN EVERYBODY

>>2846137

You're trolling right...

>>2846124
What. I never claimed I had a paneaca to fix all of those problems in one fell swoop. I also didn't say that inequality was a problem to focus on, or talked about solving the problem with the education system.

>>2846144
Obviously, except half the country believes that shit

>>2846097
>>2846099
You've regressed to repeating the same arguments over and over. I've already shown why your claims illogical, yet you refuse to understand.

So, I think I'm done here.

>>2846152

NVM then - carry on trolling. Its obvious you like to use big words to emphasize your presence but lack the very "Critical Faculties" needed to demonstrate something of worth.

Bravo.

>>2846153

You can thank Fox news...

>>2846161
Actually fox only has a few million viewers during primetime, literally half the fucking country is this dumb. 45% of Americans think the earth is less then 10,000 years old

>>2846168

Where'd you get that info? Im curious to see how many they get...

also mfw these dumb americans will never understand.

>>2846168
Well I saw another study that said only 1% of Americans think Earth is <1000yo.

Don't ask for the source though; I am conveniently neglecting to provide it.

>>2846169
Not sure where I saw it originally, but you can just google it. It's higher then cnn/msnbc, but it's still only a few million for prime time shows, and is actually down something like 20% in 2011

>>2846178

Im gonna call bullshit on that one.

>>2846178
http://www.gallup.com/poll/145286/Four-Americans-Believe-Strict-Creationism.aspx

>>2846181

ok - last time I saw figures they had a pretty big amount of americans. This was back in 2008 though.

>>2846158
Hey, if you didn't strawman, lacked reading comprehension skills (not knowing the problems I was referring to), you wouldn't come to the incorrect conclusion that I'm a troll. Great defense, bro.

If you must, though, I propose that the US adopt an education similar to Finland's, without botching it as badly as the British coalition did.
>>2846140
i no rite?

>>2846137
The Mises Institute also informs me that taxes and fractional reserve banking are evil. By Galt, we must abolish these babaric practices posthaste!

>>2846186

Good to see their numbers are dropping. Albeit mind-numbingly slow.

>>2846187
That was during the election

This is from 2009, and it has actually dropped substantially since then.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/08/27/big-beck-goes-over-3-million-viewers-beats-oreilly-in-de
mo-cable-news-ratings-for-wednesday-august-26-2009/25541

>>2846097
>Every time the system is implemented we see the same effects.
I've already shown you why this claim is unfounded.
>You argument that non of these were "fair examples" of communism is no true Scotsmen in a nut shell.
I've already shown you why this claim is unfounded.
>The very fact that every time we see the system(the same system you denied has ever been implemented but are now arguing has been implemented but "unfairly") fail when implemented or attempted is strong evidence that the system is flawed. The only question is "why is it flawed"
I've already shown you why this claim is unfounded.
>define a properly executed attempt.
That's beyond the scope of a 4chan "debate".
>Arguing that something is possible over and over without a successful demonstration of it is simply denying reality.
Nah.
>Every example we have suggest yes.
I've already shown you why this claim is unfounded.
>Prepose a test and defined fixed.
Beyond the scope of a 4chan "debate".
>Wrong. Demonstration of a system in its context(in this case human societies) is the most valid test of a system one can preform.
I've already shown you why this claim is unfounded.
>Denying that the system has never been truly tested because every time it's tested it fails suggest a starting point that assumes success and thus very nicely meets the definition of no true Scotsmen.
I've already shown you why this claim is unfounded.

>>2846099
>Furthermore we know it always fails the question isn't as you suggest "How can we make it work" The question is "why does it always fail"
No, I don't think "we" know that. *You* certainly think you do, though.
>No that was my argument based on your statement that I argued that it didn't work therefor it will never work, but in reality my argument was that the probability of success is so low it doesn't warrant broad application of the system as an alternative to our current system.
You're beyond hope. Success in this area isn't going to be based on probability.

I think I'm about done here, you're quite obviously not capable of utilizing logic or reason.

>>2846192

I didnt strawman anything - I gave you 3 topics which were discussed within the thread to choose from. If you wished not to choose one thats your own problem.

>>2846199
Which shows how far my point flew over your head. My contention was with the focus on inequality, instead of the underlying factors, such as poverty. You brought up the other two, apparently expecting me to write up the perfect solutions for them, without baselessly conjecturing. They don't exist, nor did I claim they did. I brought up one way the education system could be reformed, and you've ignored it.

Government is a monopoly on violence. I'm tired of these fuckers stealing my money at gunpoint and forcing me to pay for the murder of innocent brown women and children. Good. I hope the government ceases. Forever.

>>2846099
>>2846196
>>2846144
fuck off.

>>2846217
You might like Somalia, they pretty much are free of government intrusion. Anarchist paradise, I heard.

>>2846213

And again you missed my point. I didnt expect you to provide solutions for all 3. I gave you the 3 topics we discussed, and again i'll state for you to choose. I saw that you chose one, I didnt ignore it. I was reemphasizing that I didnt strawman anything, there was a miscommunication and you ran with it.

>>2846224

lolwhut

>>2846229
Then don't ask someone to "provide a solution that in your opinion will fix the issue involving education/inequality/poverty" because it clearly indicates an invitation to suggest _a_ solution fixing the issues you conflated together. And not addressing a possible solution when you asked for one is usually interpreted as ignoring it.

>>2846227

Yeah, good argument. Have never heard that one before. I believe in voluntary society. It doesn't necessarily mean no government, it just means no mandatory government services enforced at the barrel of a gun.

www.freetalklive.com

Check them out. Also, stfu.

>>2846239
> I believe in voluntary society. It doesn't necessarily mean no government
>>2846217
> I hope the government ceases. Forever.

Make up your mind.

>>2846238

I just didnt feel like writing about it(your education fix). Im going to sleep in a bit and am winding down from this nonsense for the night. Also there was nothing wrong with what I wrote, you just thought I asked you to solve all three. I meant any one of the three. I said that for you 3 times now.

Gnite.

>>2846246
...If it wasn't a strawman, then you weren't being clear with your question. And that's that.

Good night, broski.

>>2846244

Yes, I hope the current, overreaching, violent monopoly government we currently have ceases forever.

"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." - Lysander Spooner

I believe communism could only come to pass in a voluntary society, wherein people of like-mind would voluntarily migrate to a geographic location with the intention of establishing a communistic rule. Otherwise, the violence of implementation by force only begets more violence.

With that said, a free market is far more efficient and sustainable as it promotes competition and profit motive, which leads to advances in industries and technologies and offers a limitless amount of wealth and prosperity to any who seek it with capability, skill and/or knowledge.

>>2846259
> Government is a monopoly on violence.

You didn't say "this government". You said "government" in general. You were asking for government in general to cease.

>>2846289

You are nitpicking. Just stfu, loser.

>>2846302
And you're being immature, bro.

>>2846305

umadbro

>mfw I actually live in DC and my girlfriend works for one of the advisors on a tax committee that is heavily involved in these discussions between the parties

>mfw everyone in this thread is a fucking imbecile

>especially that inuardes tripfag who sounds like a 14 year old libertarian Ron Paul fag

dems lost the house and a lot of momentum

they let the republicans lay out a budget/ plan

its grossly corrupt and stupid

but no one outside of the unemployed non-nationals on 4chan give a flying shit.

shut down the government to get everyones attention

possible "national dialog"

>>>>>???????

profit