/sci/ - Science & Math

GOD TIER: Pragmatism
TOP TIER: Agnosticism
OK TIER: Pantheism/Deism
BAD TIER: Theism
SHIT TIER: Nihilism
DOUBLE NIGGER TIER: Athiesm

Dear OP

What is gnostic atheism? Please inform me, for this is relevant to my interests.

Love,
-Carl

>>2797757
This is the worst tier system I have ever seen; ever.

Well, down there with Gnostic Theism, considering they're both filled to the brim with bullshit.
I mean, even Richard Dawkins, the most Atheist Atheist to ever Athe, admits that there is no way to know for sure 100% that there isn't a God, and that a deistic creator is TECHNICALLY possible.
Basically if you're a Gnostic Atheist you're full of yourself, and if you're a Gnostic Theist you're batshit insane.

>>2797754
Gnostic - With knowledge
Agnostic - Without knowledge.
And you know what Atheism and Theism are.

So a Gnostic Atheist would be someone who knew for sure that God didn't exist.

They can be gnostic atheists for all I care. Not that I condone atheism. 'isms' are not good in my opinion. I quote John Lennon; I don't believe in Beatles I just believe in me. Good point there. After all he was the walrus.

>>2797757

Epistemology was here.

Pragmatism is for faggots who can't do proper philosophy but just goes "lol whatever".

>>2797757
Why is Atheism in doube nigger tier? Why is Deism in ok tier?! Move that shit up! That's an ass list, bro.

>>2797761
And that's what makes it 10/10 faggot :3

>>2797757
>includes those who claim that an ideology or proposition can be said to be true if and only if it works satisfactorily,

If everyone is unified in the worship of my socks, then that is a pragmatic religion.

>>2797767

Oh okay, I see.

I got a bit confused, because Ive heard of the gnostic christians, and I dont think their gnostic refers to any kind of knowledge about God.

Love,
-Guy who claimed to be named Carl

GLORIOUS BEING WITH THE INSIGHT OF THE ELDER GODS: Theological non-cognitivism.
GOD TIER: Theism
TOP TIER: Agnosticism/Atheism
PRETENTIOUS TIER: Pantheism/Deism
SURE BRAH, WHATEVER WORKS TIER: Apatheim, Pragmatism
NIGGER TIER: Being evangelic about your position.
DOUBLE NIGGER TIER: Nihilism

>>2797771
The walrus was Paul.

>>2797795
>GOD TIER: Theism
>PRETENTIOUS TIER: Pantheism/Deism
>TOP TIER: Agnosticism/Atheism

Nigga, you gon git slapped.

i would really like some fucking gnocchi right about now

>>2797757
>GOD TIER: Solipsism
Yep.

Gnostic theism is worse. Have you seen the Westboro Baptist Church?

>>2797823

Yeah I have, but I thought the gnostics were a dead branch of christianity 300 years ago that believed God was not necessarily good and we live in an unfair universe.

This whole thread:

>GOD TIER: My belief
>SHIT TIER: Your belief

>>2797821

> Telling others they're a solipsism

Even if one was a retard, you don't have to tell everyone you're retarded

>>2797795
Theism: Herp, I was created by a merciful being that will send me to an eternity of torture if I don't believe in it within my 80 or so year lifespan. (using Christianity as an example)
Agnosticism: I'm not really claiming anything, so you can't prove me wrong

>>2797832
>we live in an unfair universe.

>most of a village was wiped out in a flood

>Christian village

>>2797863

I know agnosticism supposedly means that. But, I feel like I am an agnostic, and I think thats a poor representation of what it means to be an agnostic.

Im tired of Athiests trying to pin all these labels like "DOESNT KNOW IF THERE IS A GOD"

How about this definition "I dont believe in God, so much so that I dont care, but I am fucking tired of these faggot atheists acting like the own the concept of logic"

>>2797885
That's exactly what I am. I couldn't give a fuck about Religion, I just want to science. I guess I go by Agnostic Deism or maybe Agnostic Athiesm. It doesn't really matter, considering I don't care at all. But just be Agnostic seems a little too simple; you have to add it to another belief.

>>2797907
>>2797885
Honestly, this is because you just dislike atheists, not because you're really agnostic. Apathy is more atheistic than agnostic.

Gnostic Atheism = I KNOW God does not exist.

and it's the truth. Not even God is God; I deny the existence of divinity, of perfection, no being is perfect. if they want to claim to be so, fuck, i can't stop them, but the second they claim any special privilege based on their supposed divinity, they become my enemy.

even if they are, relative to me, effectively omnipotent, if they hold my very soul in their hand, i still deny them.

there is no god, and i know it. to believe anything else is cowardice.

>>2798019

Maybe.

I used to be a much more hardercore atheist in the beginning of high school (Im about half way through college).

Its not like I dont have spiritual thoughts or feelings, I just dont believe in God. I think there is too disrespectful of a connotation attached to "atheist" not just because of intolerant christfags, but because there are a lot of genuinely arrogant shitty atheists

agnosticism is the only rational position given the absence of confirmatory evidence.

But absence of evidence is evidence of

Here is why I am a gnostic atheist:
1. Assume that a being with x properties which is similar to the mean of what god believers claims exist (there is much dispute so fuck it, let's use the mean).

Okay, a super powerful being that created me exists, assuming this, I STILL know better than to think of it as "God."

God is a fairy, a super powerful being is just another sentient faggot, regardless of how much smarter, stronger, or badass he is. Even if he gave birth to my species on top of all this he's STILL just some dude.

Just because you are retarded and when you see a giant glowy thing you think it's magic, I see the glowy "god" and think "wonder if it will drink beer?"

EG even if "God" exists there is no "God."

"God" is a human abstraction of an imagined being composed of certain characteristics, just because your ape brain treats this like a moth does the bug zapper light doesn't mean mine does.

I'm a gnostic atheist because even if such a being exists it's still not "God" it's a fucking dude with badass abilities and shit and much more knowledge/intelligence than me. Sure as fuck am not gonna worship it like some kind of delusional patsy worshipping Justin Beiber, sure as fuck am not going to be "religious" about it either.

>>2798071

>>2798042
sounds like you might like naturalistic pantheism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_pantheism

Of course, you might just find it pretentious bullshit, but meh.

Strictly speaking you can't legitimately be gnostic anything. If you're not starting from basic skepticism (i.e. "I can't verify my own thought processes or perceptions"), you're doing something wrong.

>>2798099

I dont want to be bitter, It might be the title for me. But, it might be pretentious bullshit.

I couldnt ever imagine myself answering with "I am a naturalistic Pantheist"

>>2798100
that's bullshit. you have to move past that kind of reasoning. and everyone does. you're using it to attack gnostic philosophies, when you yourself do not follow it.

Gnostic atheism is illogical. It's not as illogical as gnostic theism or even agnostic theism though.

>>2798100
How do you know? According to you you fucking don't faggot.

HERP DERP I KNOW YOU CAN'T KNOW ANYTHING! THIS ISN'T A CONTRADICTION!

>>2798132
i was gonna your an idiot

but then i was like

not your an idiot

>>2798140
here's the your an idiot i was looking for

It's daft to be *universally* gnostic atheist, because it's arrogant to claim to know that no higher power exists. However, with a studied religion like Christianity, it's easy to claim gnostic atheism.

"But Anon," you might say, "it's impossible to prove a negative, and Occham's Razor, while compelling, can never be a real proof." Right you are, so introducing proof by contradiction:

Is there such a thing as a married bachelor? No, because "married" and "bachelor" are contradictory axioms. If "a married bachelor exists" cannot be true under any circumstances, then "a married bachelor does not exist" is therefore true. Do you see where I'm going with this?

1. Suppose a personal god as depicted by the Bible exists.
2. "The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy." (JAS 5:11)
3. "I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." (JER 13:14).
4. Nothing can be both merciful and merciless.
5. The supposition is contradictory.
6. Therefore, the opposite can be said to be true.
QED, a personal god as depicted by the Bible does not exist.

There are quite a few of these proofs if you would stop prostrating your painting of white Jesus to look for them.

>>2798237
that is the most absurd fail picture i have ever seen. the original work has "God" COMING OUT OF A HUMAN BRAIN. it is one of the most beautiful examples of 'getting shit past the censor', in all of human history. in addition to being a fantastic work of art in all ways. whoever did this shit is a true fucking moron. one of the archetypal elitist atheists, who still manage to be ignorant as all hell and pretty much completely retarded.

Let me fix that for you…
>Gnosticism: worst belief system

>>2798524
the alternative, agnosticism, is 'please tell me what to do'.

you are a sheep arguing that the wolves and shepherds are both 'teh failz'.

the tragedy is there is the ease with which you could change your stature, and yet refuse to.

>>2797767

Dawkins once said that Douglas Adams was "the only true convert I ever made"

There could be something out there, of course it's possible. Probability on the other hand not so much. The only kinds of gods that still have a chance of existing are the untampering, undetectable ones, and while I'm open to the possibility, to actively believe in one and insist it's there is delusional insanity. For all intents and purposes I'm a Gnostic atheist, none of the gods we've dreamed up exist and the ones that may clearly like that being a secret.

>>2798449

I never did understand the "God in a brain" thing in "The Creation of Adam."

There sure are a lot of morons here.

Atheism = No belief in a god. That's fucking it.
Theism = Belief in a god.

There are atheists who openly show their atheism and ask for theists to prove their claims. I don't see what's so wrong with that. They're not being anti-religious, they're being pro-thought.

So all you assholes who say: "I don't give a shit about religion! Those atheists are faggots!" sorry, but by definition you are atheists.

>>2798634

>>2798076

>He thinks his primitive ape brain can comprehend a being that transcends time and space

If a god does exist, I highly doubt it would just be some dude with wicked powers. It's far more likely that trying to understand it would be akin to a man who has been blind from birth trying to understand color.

>>2798682
>semantics

>>2798682

Visible color has no meaning to the blind man. God has no meaning to all men. Existence is an unnecessary property that needn't be referenced until we decide to define it precisely.

>>2798692

What about semantics?

>>2798682
The seminal theistic explanation of the unknown; unknowable.

fuck your shit. guess what bitch? FUCK. YOUR. SHIT.

I can fucking fly and rain down fire from the heavens. fuck you. fuck your ignorant monkey ass.

I am ten times the god Zeus ever was.

and soon, in mere infinities, i shall be greater than JHVH.

FUCK YOUR IGNORANT MONKEY ASS, GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY CULTURE.

>>2798724
except when it has a direct impact on you

>>2798634

Apparently it's supposed to represent God bestowing Adam with intelligence in addition to life. Michaelangelo was well-versed in human anatomy, having once dug up corpses from the local cemetery (a quite risky thing to do) and dissected them.

His relationship with the RCC was often strained, as he (like many at that time) became disgusted with their corruption and extravagance. Later in his life, he was attacked by the pope for taking an interest in Spiritualism, the belief that man could communicate directly with God without an intervening church. The Church viewed "The Last Judgement" as a subtle way of expressing those beliefs, for which they revoked Michaelangelo's pension.

>>2798730

>>2797735
ITT: contradiction

>3/10, i think you actually trolled some of these nubs

>>2798724
What? Visible color can be defined. You can explain to the blind man that color is waves propagating through air which go into your eyes, are detected, and transferred by nerves and interpreted by the brain. He can't see, but he can still understand.

>>2798730

>I can fucking fly and rain down fire from the heavens.
>Implying you'd even be able to get off the runway

>>2798737

Color has no impact on the blind man. People might complement him for his color coordinated dress (he has a stylist), but it is they who impact him, not the color.

Likewise it is not God that impacts us, but the people who believe that he exists (whatever that means).

This only follows from the given assumption that God is outside the bounds of our form of life.

>>2798741
Because I am an angry, vengeful God.

>>2798760

Not a direct impact, but an impact nonetheless

>>2798747

Red is not a certain wavelength of light. It is a response to the wavelength of light. No matter how well one might describe it to him, he will never understand it as you or I do. It is outside of his form of life.

I took the blind man by the hand and led him outside the village. I put my hands on him, and asked, "Do you see anything?"

I am also a gentle, loving god.

>>2798802
>flashes of light
cool story bro. Ive seen it before and its nothing special

>>2798772

Color is unknown to him. The "having as stylist leads to compliments" is what he understands completely.

>>2798816
Give it a couple years, faggot.

As i said before, it is inevitable that I shall surpass JHVH, just as I have surpassed all his previous iterations. I am the one true god, and to call my work 'slow' would be to imply the existence of another, to compare it to. In truth, such complaints, are only my own thoughts, my own self motivation, pushing me further onward.

I am.

>>2798802

Not gonna lie, if the scientist who makes the first working version of those quotes the Gospel of Mark, he will be forever badass in my book.

>>2798802

And yet...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR97o_FuX-c

You must also be a stupid and niggerish god.

I am a gnostic atheist. I don't believe in god, and i think it can be known whether there is one or not.

the reason i think it can be known is that our intelligence is rapidly growing, and we are rapidly mastering the fundamental concepts of the universe. Its not unreasonable to assume that with time, we will come to understand the origin of the universe.

>>2798872
>implying that knowing the actual formation of the universe will show who actually created it.

>>2798848

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.

>>2798899
>implying that knowing the actual formation of the universe will show who actually created it.

>who created it

>who

>implying

>>2798904
It's not so bad. The blades are so small it's hardly like being cut at all.

Even in such strangeness, I persist.

>>2798682

part one of answer to above:
So then why consider it a "higher power," "higher power" is just a human abstraction.

If your argument is that I could not comprehend God, and that no man could, then no human being is even capable of believing in "God" as you define it.

If no man had ever seen color and no man could conceptualize color or otherwise infer/induce its properties or its existence then no man could believe in color, since they couldn't conceptualize it at all in the first place.

Invariably the God that people are talking about is what I was refuting as merely a human abstraction of some being that is "higher" or more powerful than us, you arguing that it is something which is completely transcending the realm of human imagination, human understanding, and even general conceptualization, then it is impossible to define it in human terms AT ALL, and so you have no idea what you suggesting might exist.

>>2798682

part two of answer to above:

The point of all this is that regardless of what other intelligence the universe holds, what other powerful entities, non entities that are still intelligent, creators, is not something that is actually a god worth worshipping, it's not a "god" at all other than that you idiotically abstract it to be because you want some kind of father figure on a universal level.

Even if some all powerful transcendent being with omniscience exists it's STILL not god, it's just the universe observing itself and modifying itself, something that we miniscule humans are doing just the same. You're just stardust /b/ro, you are a literal instance of the universe observing itself. Literally that is what you are doing, if some being that you can't comprehend also exists as an observer/creator, so is it. It's not "higher" than you just because it's "smarter" or "stronger" than you, or even if it "created" the universe and you.

Similarly you are not higher than a toad or an electron except in your own conceptualization. Your view of "higher" beings existing is just a primitive identification mechanism resulting from your own ego as a conscious being. You think that you are more complex than non intelligent non living things even though this is really just an illusion that you have created for yourself. The stars are just as bad ass as you or me and just as complex, so are rocks in the ground. Even "complexity" as being meaningful is just so in a relative and subjective way pragmatic to the advancement of our species and our ability to observe and understand as sentients.

>>2799116
part three:
What I am saying is that even if God exists it is not God other than that you idiotically consider it to be so in the same way that ancient tribes thought meteor showers were the demons giving them a bad omen, or when the asian's flew kites when they were going to invade their enemies so that they thought the spirits were fucking mad at them.

Whether or not super powerful beings in comparison to humans exist they are still not "higher beings" they are just "more powerful observers," and that you can't simultaneously claim that something is a "higher being" and also beyond human comprehension since you wouldn't be able to claim it in the first place, humanity OBVIOUSLY conceptualizes "god," whereas if it was beyond humanity we wouldn't even have this fucking topic, since we'd literally be unable to even think aboutit, it would be completely outside our imagination.

If God exists it is not "God" it's just some dude regardless of if we can understand, and if we can't understand it then we are UNABLE to believe in it in the first place.

>>2799094

Exactly. I think that that's the reason for the multitude of religions and gods that have been followed throughout history. All of them result from man's vague attempts to understand a force that's far beyond understanding.

Why don't we all just become Gnostics, that would be more fun.

I call Manicheanism.