/sci/ - Science & Math

>>2713329
meaningful radiation from Chernobyl traveled about 1000 miles. Unless you're in Alaska or Hawaii you're at least 4500 miles away if you live in the US.

Yep, Japan's mistake fucked Asia up...

>>2713361
That's good news for me anon.

What can we expect to see in Japan?

>if they go in to full on meltdown
Can't happen at this point. Reactors 1, 2, and 3 are already stable with cooling being maintained. Reactors 4, 5, and 6 were shut down before the earthquake and were either completely or partially defueled.

It's crisis averted folks. All that's left is the cleanup.

lol, check the news guys, another explosion probably cracked the casing of the core. This is now Chernobyl-lite.

>>2713404
So the fires aren't something to worry about?

Bro even if the uranium and plutonium cores inside of reactors 1, 2, and 3 are cooling at this point, which I highly doubt considering the inability to stop the radioactive process at this point, we still have the issue of the spent cores that are just lying out in the open. If those don't get continual circulation and cooling, they will over heat. You know what happens then? Shit fucking goes down. The spent cores can ignite and start spewing radioactive Cesium all over the place and into the atmosphere. That shit gets in the jet stream? The west coast of the US gets its shit all fucked up.

It's definitely not crisis averted.

ALL PERSONNEL EVAC'D

NO ONE IS AT THE PLANT ANYMORE

>>2713415
Not particularly.

>>2713440
>shit goes fucking down
smartest kid on /sci/ right here. this more than anything confirmed to me that there isn't even a small chance of threat outside japan.

>>2713391
wouldn't want to be within about 20 miles or so, if shit hits the fan they could get a fairly high dose of radiation (maybe not immediate radiation sickness but elevated risk of cancer). Places like Tokyo, etc. will be fine.

>>2713440
here,

>>2713470
>>2713470
Is fucking right. They just told the skeleton crew of 50 workers to leave the plant. Whatever happens at that plant from here on out is in the hands of a higher being than us. I just hope he's on our side.

The radioactive cloud from Chernobyl travelled about 1500 km. US west coast is about 7500 km from Japan. Should I panic now?

workers left because of legal reasons.

they are not allowed to work at low millisievert levels due to regulations

>>2713329
THEY CAN'T GO "FULL MELTDOWN" (AKA CHERNOBYLOCALYPSE) BECAUSE UNLIKE CHERNOBYL, THE NUCLEAR REACTION HAS BEEN STOPPED.

it's more like 3 mile island.

>>2713765
umm, they can still melt due to decay

And if they melt due to decay it's still meltdown and it still releases radiation.

>>2713783
but it won't be as bad as chernobyl precisely because there is no longer a nuclear reaction taking place.

chernobyl is 1000 times as bad as the worst case scenario here.

source: http://www.npr.org/2011/03/15/134568383/japan-three-mile-island-chernobyl-putting-it-all-in-perspect
ive

>>2713820
>no longer a nuclear reaction taking place

oh that's why spent fuel rods don't need to be cooled with water...

Basically, the LEU rods are inside the containment vessel, with no water to cool them.

So, what happens is they will continually heat up until they reach their melting point. Once that occurs, the radioactive magma will settle at the bottom of the containment vessel. If the magma breaches the containment vessel, its still just in the bottom of a giant steel and concrete basement.

That concerns the live material.

The stuff that is REALLY worrying is the spent LEU rods that were in the storage tank while on queue to be canned and shipped off to some storage facility. They are in that tank because they are still generating heat.

Now, there is no water to cool them. That means they will continue to heat until they reach their melting point, and turn into radioactive magma and fall to the bottom of the cooling tank.

The cooling tank isn't sealed in a giant steel and concrete reinforced structure at the bottom of the facility, its just a large pool, in a large building, with no secondary walls, giant steel containment vessels, just a giant pool.

There is pure white smoke coming from the structure that houses the cooling pool, know what that means? They have reached their melting point, and are just simmering at the bottom of the cooling pool emitting radioactive steam from the last of the water, and the other materials that make up the floor of the pool as it burns.

[spoilers]Take it or leave it, its the current situation in laymen's terms.

I'm going to distract us from the plant itself right now and focus on the potential fallout.

First I will state that, thus far, the fallout contamination levels from this have been small and generally have not posed a significant threat to the public. and with regard to reactors 1-3, I do not see that changing without a massive total breach of containment (#2 is at the highest risk of this, #3 next most).

However, the spent fuel rods at #4 are a significant risk... They may not do much... But they have the potential to create significant fallout contamination if things go "worst case"... We don't yet have an idea of what the outcome will be with regard to this.

What this means, is that the situation is still dynamic at this point... Outcome undetermined.

The most important thing we can watch right now, while waiting for information on the reactor/spent fuel, is wind direction and strength. This is the ultimate limiting factor for fallout, no matter how strong the fallout is.

The good news is that, the vast majority of the time, the wind at Fukushima I goes out to sea, where it is pretty much harmless. Every reactor could go full retard, breach all containment, etc, and the general public in Japan is still pretty safe.

If it heads inland, though... Most likely, there won't be any dangerous fallout... But if there is somehow... Fuuuuuu... Will be real bad news for the Japanese IN THE AREA.

Fallout will not reach North America, if you believe that then you clearly know nothing on the subject and should be ignored.

If you have a meltdown in Japan, is it still a China syndrome? Toledo? Mexico City? Buenos Aires?

>>2713854

the PRIMARY reaction has stopped, but there are still minor reactions that don't sustain themselves that generate heat, the core needs to be kept cool until all of the non-primry reactions die off.

>>2713924
It just has to be kept cool long enough to end the risk of a meltdown. From what I understand that point has already been reached.

You should consider the ecolological damage, if radiation kills a ton of plankton then it will effect the fish in the oceans.

>>2713404
You must be new on this planet. Here:
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/78466.html

>Fukushima No.3 reactor's container feared damaged
TOKYO, March 16, Kyodo

>The container of the No.3 reactor of the quake-hit Fukushima No.1 nuclear power plant is feared to have been damaged and may have leaked radioactive steam Wednesday, emitting high-level radiation, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said.

>The radiation level briefly topped 6 milisievert per hour at the plant, the government's nucler safety agency said.

>The explanations were given after smoke was seen rising from the No.3 reactor since around 8:30 a.m., according to Edano.

>Earlier in the day, a fire broke out again at the plant's No.4 reactor, where there was already a risk of leaks of high-level radioactive materials, but flames were no longer visible about 30 minutes later.

>Tokyo Electric Power Co., the operator of the plant, said it considered spraying boric acid by helicopter to prevent the No.4 reactor's spent nuclear fuel rods from reaching criticality again, restarting a chain reaction.

>On Tuesday, the utility said water in a pool storing the spent fuel rods may be boiling and that its level may have dropped, exposing the rods. The government ordered the firm to inject water into the pool ''as soon as possible to avert a major nuclear disaster.''

>>2713961
but I thought that people and fish can coexist peacefully.

Due to high radiation levels at the reactor, workers have been unable to pour water into the troubled pool. Difficult conditions have led the utility to evacuate around 730 of the 800 workers from the site, according to TEPCO.

''The possibility of recriticality is not zero,'' TEPCO said Wednesday as it announced the envisaged step to control the situation.

Unless the spent fuel rods are cooled down, they could suffer damage and emit radioactive substances.

An estimated 70 percent of the nuclear fuel rods have been damaged at the plant's No.1 reactor and 33 percent at the No.2 reactor, the firm said. The cores of both reactors are believed to have partially melted with their cooling functions lost in the wake of Friday's magnitude 9.0 earthquake and tsunami.

Around 5:45 a.m., a worker at the plant saw flames on the fourth floor of the building housing the No.4 reactor, believed to be the same spot where an apparent hydrogen explosion caused a fire at 9:38 a.m. Tuesday. The reactor had been halted for regular checks from before the quake.

TEPCO said it had stopped fire-fighting operations after judging that the Tuesday morning fire had been extinguished. It said it promptly reported the latest incident to firefighters and local governments.

Flames were seen through the two square-shaped holes about 8 by 8 meters created in the walls of the building by Tuesday's 6:14 a.m. blast, but were no longer visible when workers at the plant tried to confirm them at 6:15 a.m. Wednesday, the utility said.

>>2713880
>the radioactive magma will settle at the bottom of the containment vessel

what prevents this magma from attaining critical mass and heading into a runaway reaction?

Radiation briefly topped 10 millisievert at Fukushima plant: agency (12:35)

nuke power is finished in the US and probably taking a big hit the world over. fukushima'ed

>butt-hurt thoritards start eating algae for breakfast tomorrow.

This is what happens.


The rods get hotter and hotter. They get so hot they melt through the bottom of the containment.

They continue to melt through the rock of the crust below. They get to the mantle and continue their trip south.

Once they get to the magma they get sloshed around but continue to the iron-nickle core.

Once there they melt through to the exact center of the Earth.

At the center they continue to heat and heat and heat and cause a catastrophic chain reaction which blows the Earth apart with an Earth Shattering Ka-Boom.


This process will take 647 days.

>>2714009
because you need 95% pure uranium for a nuke, powerplants run on <5% pure uranium.

URGENT: Radiation briefly topped 10 millisievert at Fukushima plant

TOKYO, March 16, Kyodo

The radiation level at the quake-hit Fukushima No.1 nuclear power plant reached 10 millisievert per hour at one point Wednesday morning, possibly due to the damage at its No.2 reactor the day before, the government's nuclear safety agency said.

The maximum level was measured at the plant's front gate at 10:40 a.m. It fell to 6.4 millisievert at 10:45 a.m. and to 2.3 millisievert at 10:54 a.m. but rose again to about 3.4 millisievert as of 11:00 a.m., the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said.

==Kyodo

>>2714050
Shit just got real

>>2714050
Obviously, the Japs are no longer in control.
They're just trying to lessen the extent of the disaster.

look guys, you are all scaremongering retards. erryting gonna be just fizzle. dur contan is ubertuf. NUCLEAR POWER IS CLEAN AND SAFE.


>ooh, jeez, that was fun.

SHIT IS GETTING REAL

>>2714086
durrhurr WERE ALL GONNA DIE PANIC AND LOOT SHIT

Millisievert?

Do they actually mean sieverts? Didn't it hit 400 mS per hour earlier today?

>>2714050

1 Sv = 1000 mSv (millisieverts) = 1,000,000 μSv (microsieverts)


Effects to humans of acute radiation (within one day):

* 0–0.25 Sv: None
* 0.25–1 Sv: Some people feel nausea and loss of appetite; bone marrow, lymph nodes, spleen damaged.
* 1–3 Sv: Mild to severe nausea, loss of appetite, infection; more severe bone marrow, lymph node, spleen damage; recovery probable, not assured.
* 3–6 Sv: Severe nausea, loss of appetite; hemorrhaging, infection, diarrhea, skin peels, sterility; death if untreated.
* 6–10 Sv: Above symptoms plus central nervous system impairment; death expected.
* Above 10 Sv: Incapacitation and death.

Japan should just call in the Ukranians. They'll have this fixed in no time. The mere fact that they can actually go onto the grounds of the power plant without accumulating a lethal dose of radiation in two minutes would already make this the easiest nuclear power plant disaster they would have ever handled.

so much retardation going on in this thread...

>>2714101

source?

>>2714122
AP is reporting it hit 1000 mS earlier today.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hr2sPhUE6ja0EMclJeUeGSQAON-g?docId=7e3dd7128b804f5
d965554ff69375e76

Last night I heard the 400 mS mark get tossed around a ton. It's old news.

>>2714101
BBC says it was 1 Sv, but is now 0.6-0.8 Sv. They probably mean Sv/h.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12755739

>>2713738
Ukraine is a relatively non windy place.

The pacific ocean on the other hand can carry winds to the west coast of north america.

>>2714101
I dunno, maybe the journalists are retarded and it's 10 sieverts. Otherwise it wouldn;'t be significant (the piece of news was labelled urgent).

>>2714190
Doubtful, and there's no way of knowing without evidence.

>>2714190
>>2714200
I think we can safely say someone went full retard in the journalism arena.

Whether it's the guy who thought it was news or the guy who mistaked sieverts with millisieverts, we won't know for a bit.

URGENT: Strong quake jolts Chiba, other areas in Kanto region

TOKYO, March 16, Kyodo

A strong earthquake of a preliminary magnitude 6.0 jolted the Kanto region Wednesday afternoon, measuring lower 5 on the Japanese intensity scale of 7 in parts of Chiba Prefecture and 3 in central Tokyo.

The 12:52 p.m. quake originated from a depth of 10 kilometers in the Pacific off Chiba, the Japan Meteorological Agency said.

Sievert is unit of dose, not rate. It makes no sense to say that "the radiation level is 1000 mSv" near the plant.

>>2714226
They mean Sievert/hour, I think. Mainstream news is retarded.

TEPCO releases photo of No.4 reactor
Wednesday, March 16, 2011 11:57 +0900 (JST)

Tokyo Electric Power Company has released a photograph of the No.4 reactor building at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant where fires were reported on Tuesday and Wednesday.

It shows that a large portion of the building's outer wall has collapsed.

The company produced the photo at a news conference on Wednesday.

The photo, shot the day before from the northwestern side of the reactor, shows that a large portion of the building's outer wall has collapsed. There is an 8-meter hole on the 4th floor, and the interior is visible.

Another 8-meter square hole was also confirmed on the outer wall of the building. Both appeared after an explosion early on Tuesday.

An ensuing fire near the 4th floor reportedly later went out on its own.

Flames were also found spewing from the building early Wednesday, but the utility company said they were no longer visible half-an-hour later.

>>2714219
Any tsunami risk?

If we somehow have a release of isotope particles into the atmosphere, worst case is you should LIMIT your consumption of pacific fish and mushrooms, berries and wild game produced in the westernmost states for a few years.

And that's if you want to be extremely careful. When chernobyl blew, those were the guidelines given in finland and finland is a bit closer to chernobyl than US is to Japan.

And it's not like people actually listened to the warnings at every point. Reindeer is just too delicious to be afraid of a little caesium.

Also - Radioactivity forecast system down
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/16_16.html

They're no longer able to forecast how the radiation could spread.

>>2714259
Nope. But they were wrong once, ie they reported tsunami risk and there wasn't a tsunami.

>>2714279
every breaking news i see from nhk or kyodo, japan gets more and more fucked

japan is having their 2012 early

>if they go in to full on meltdown, who should be worried?
The managers of the plant and workers.
That's about it.

My mom is going to Shanghai in two weeks...

Should she be worried?

>>2714318
We'll see if there still; is a Shanghai in two weeks

>>2714327

lol

>>2714289
Unless all six goes up. Nuclear winter. We all die by 2012.

it needs moar quekes.

>>2714289

>2011 was a skip year

nuohmygod.jpg

>>2714318

Yes, the air quality in Shanghai is horrible.

>>2714358
Been to Shanghai before. It's not so bad as long as you don't stay for a long time.

hypothetically speaking; whats the Worst Case Scenario for the situation?

>>2714379
You and your loved ones all die slow and painful deaths

>>2714379
the end of the world due to the nuclear fallout & radiation carried by jetstream all over the world

>>2714379
We all die a horrible and painful death and the world ends

>>2714368
smells like chlorine and burning tires

>Fires broke out at the Fukushima Daiichi plant's No. 4 reactor in Japan on Tuesday, according to the Tokyo Electric Power Company. The first fire caused a leak of concentrated radioactive material, according to the Japanese prime minister, Naoto Kan. The first fire broke out at 9:40 a.m. local time on Tuesday, and was thought to have been put out, but another fire was discovered early on Wednesday, believed to have started because the earlier one had not been fully extinguished. In a televised statement, the prime minister told residents near the plant that "I sincerely ask all citizens within the 20 km distance from the reactor to leave this zone." He went on to say that "[t]he radiation level has risen substantially. The risk that radiation will leak from now on has risen." Kan warned residents to remain indoors and to shut windows and doors to avoid radiation poisoning.
>The French Embassy in Japan reports that the radiation will reach Tokyo in 10 hours, with current wind speeds.

http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/woalert_read.php?edis=NC-20110311-29877-JPN

>>2714379
Outside japan?
>>2714275


In japan?
An exclusion zone and a bit more cancer.

>>2714141
>"A part of the containment vessel is broken and it seems like the vapour is coming out from there. So... [it] appears to be that vapour is coming out from the broken part."
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12755739

Reactor three appears to have a containment breach.

this is humans paying the price for destroying the environment...global warming 101. tsunami, earthquake, and now meltdown. and dont forget the oil spill either.

i feel for the japanese, but i hope this leads to people learning a lesson: we cannot continue to harm the environment with nuclear power and fossil fuels. or else we will continue to risk tsunamis and meltdowns.

alt. energy is the only way to go. we can renew energy from the sun and the wind, but you can thank republicans and libertarians for us not doing that since no body profits.

thanks sarah palin, you done us good.

>>2714379

Many people around the area could wind up dead, and a seclusion zone would need to be put in place around the immediate vecinity. That is worst case scenario.

No nuclear winter. (seriously hope that dude was tolling, but there are some major idiots on here)
No radiation making its way across the pacific killing off western north america (again, lol)

The media is doing a piss poor job explaining the possible implications for this.

>>2714406
Just so you know, that's stupid.

>>2714406

Wow, wow, wow.

10/10

THE stupidest post I have read on 4chan all day. Congrats.

>>2714406
Partisanship, the Gaia religion, strawmans, and general stupidity all in the same post!

10/10, you're on a roll!

>>2714190
>>2714200
>>2714211
Absorbing 3 Sv is LD50 within 30 days. You better fucking believe hundreds of mSv an hour is significant.

This will not be another Chernobyl. But the situation has been spiraling out of control - first the problems with pumps, then the explosions, then the vents, then the fires. There's the potential for everything to get even worse if TEPCO keeps fucking up the damage control as it has the last few days. Decreasing water levels in the fuel pool for Units 4-6 are definitely a concern, especially when damage to fuel rods is suspected in the pool of #4.

>>2714422
>>2714421
>>2714417
Actually, it's more a 3/10 because no one really got trolled.

>>2714422
>>2714421
>>2714417
alt. energy makes sense, scientists agree, if you don't, then why are you even on this board? go back to stormfront or fox news or whatever and just cover your ears and scream nigger or whatever it is you do.

i and many other folks are looking for a cleaner tomorrow.

>>2714422
no one on 4chan actually understands what strawman means, do they?

>>2714458

>>2714471
>>2714458
11/10

>>2714471
republicunts always say strawman when they've been bested. i try to keep a dictionary on hand IRL.

>>2714501
12/10

>>2714501
>>2714471
>>2714458
>>2714406
0/10

>>2714391

Get back to /o/, the Japanapocalypse is not for Rx-7s, only 240s must die.

>>2714501
libtards use it all the time to, and not once have i ever seen it used appropriately.

>>2714525
21/10

>>2714525
>>2714501
>>2714471
That's one bad samefag. It's like you're not even trying.

this thread

>>2714571
No, there's only one particularly bad troll trying too hard.

>>2714535
Maybe if he capitalized it would be less obvious.

>Japan exlplodes
>Asia in shambles
>USA big brother syndome
>World War 3 ensues.

>>2714576
>>2714588
>>2714535

buttraged young republicans, why do you always hold back progress??

>>2714602
You're trying WAY too hard there. I suggest you quit before your buttblood leaks into your chair, princess.

>>2714611
you are so mad, you are really mad.

>>2714619
Don't let the assblood stain your clothes

>>2714602
Duh republicans are anti progress and anti science
Republicans gonna repub

>>2713329
There will be NO MELTDOWN. It was NEVER a possibility. The media is doing what the media does: sensationalizing and blowing shit out of proportion for sake of ratings; they're screaming "FIRE!!!" in a crowded theatre; they're trolling the general public IRL. There is NOTHING to be concerned about. The Japanese have a big mess to clean up, and it may take some time, but it IS under control.

>>2714638
You really need to quit, no one got trolled at all and it's just pathetic watching you continue to try.

I'm not mad, I'm pityful

>>2714645
Do you even know what a meltdown is?

>10mS/h
Wow it's fucking nothing
>10 S/h
Wow,it's fucking death on a timer

...
I expect by Sunday the news will say 10 TeraSiervets/second

breaking news just now, the plant they evaced? They went back.

>Workers have returned to the damaged Fukushima Daiichi plant after an evacuation order was lifted, Tokyo Electric Power Company said.

Source is CNNs website

Hey OP here,

It's okay bros, no need to be so rage. Nor am I shitting bricks over this event. It's nice to see people debate it out with some good knowledge though, so let's not take this downhill.

>>2714626
why are republicans so obsessed with rectal bleeding? LOL.

< - /b/ is that way bro.

>>2714686
Yes, that's where you should go. Don't let me keep you!

>Suddenly buildings ignite for no reason

>>2714656

Stop using CNN, bro. That happened like an hour ago.

http://www.kfiam640.com/cc-common/widget/detail.html?wid=431

George Noory talking Japan Nuclear Power with nuclear engineer (saying it's not as bad as people think). surprising given the show

Judging by all the weird shit Japan has produced after we nuked them, I'm kind of glad this happened.

No, even a full-on balls-to-the-wall catastrophic meltdown explosion + waste catching fire would only cause the city to be abandoned and a lot of japs (like, maybe 2,000) will be at a higher risk for cancer for it.

Nevermind that a catastrophic meltdown + stored waste catching fire at this point is basically not even a possiblity.

>>2714726
Whats got the best uptodate coverage on this then? I dont wanna be an hour behind :(

I was listening to NPR earlier today and they had a sort of debate going on between some guy from greenpeace and some author of some book about nuclear power.

The guy from greenpeace basically whined about how "OMG NUCLEAR POWER IS EVIL BCUZ THIS WASTE MIGHT CATCH FIRE AND DESTROY THE WORLD AND CHERNOBYL WAS THE SAFEST PLANT EVER" whereas the author of the book actually had statistics, sources, and facts. It was pretty embarrassing, actually. She basically proved that even if this plant fucking explodes in the worst way possible, nuclear power is still our best option by a wide margin, and then she proved that a worst case scenario is basically impossible at this point.

>>2714736
>Guy is talking, not being alarmist, stating some facts
>Music starts
>LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS AFTER THE BREAK
Lol

>>2714761
FFFUUUU! there are no new updates on all the shitty TV stations, it's all old shit

>>2714787
yeah lol, i'm just glad he's finally got someone who knows their shit on the show. two nights ago it was, "hur how does astronomy tie into earthquake dur"

>>2714802
tokyofag here. latest update has been that the helicpoters with water are flying over there

hey op, I really like that dubstep SHIT!!!!