/sci/ - Science & Math

Also Reactor 3's containment has a "partial defect" apparently

if by partial defect you mean hemorrhaging lethal levels of radiation then that's what i've been hearing here in /sci/

The latest update was "no sharp rise of radiation in Reactor 2"

My guess is that radiation is rising and they are saying "no sharp rises" to prevent panic and partially because it is not over the top, so far.

>>2704288
Whatever it is it is not good.

They say pressure in Reactor 3 is dropping, but I don't know, maybe it is leaking some through the "partial defect" and lowering pressure.

Overall it is not looking so good.

no, and I don't even understand how is this really this big of a problem, Can't they just drown the whole shit in water?

>>2704323
They're trying, but with defective systems it's not easy.

>>2704288
>if by partial defect you mean hemorrhaging lethal levels of radiation then that's what i've been hearing here in /sci/

either troll or gigantic retarded faggot.

/sci/ has been saying the exact opposite in EVERY fucking thread about this that has shown up.

The information policy is ridiculous there.

I don't believe in anything besides video material and my own reasoning which tells me that the melting down of the nuclear fuel rods is inevitable.

Oh thank god, a /sci/ thread to lurk. The surprisingly informative /v/ thread was deleted.
Please keep posting updates and links.
BLOWOUT SOON, FELLOW STALKER-SAN

yeah, i wouldn't believe anything tokyo electric is telling us. they havent given any radiation readings for quite a while now so I'd say they are at some dangerous levels

http://cnic.jp/english/newsletter/nit92/nit92articles/nit92coverup.html

Guise, I think you should see this. TEPCO are incompetent, and this could have been avoided had they not been too dumb to understand how tsunamis are wet

thats it, im calling samefag on every post in here, except for my post:
>>2704340

there is no way such a huge collection of uneducated faggots came out of the woodwork and spammed the same thread at once.

You cannot listen to Japan and expect to get the full story. They're going to try to prevent panic as anyone would do if they were faced with meltdown.

tepco won't even exist after all of this is over. they have shown that they are completely incompetent.

>>2704369
hurr

>>2704360
I'm not going to read all of that.

But I know obviously they're idiots. Not idiots like Chernobyl, but still, idiots.

>>2704360
>TEPCO is incompetent
No shit? I never would have known based on their Wikipedia profile
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tepco#Scandal

EXPLOSION HEARD AT SECOND REACTOR?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

>>2704395
>wikipedia
Didn't give all of the information available, and you're trusting the internet to be reliable and sensible. Read the article.

>>2704360
>>2704357
I was reading an article about corruption in Japanese culture.

Basically, after WW2 the Japanese government adopted an evaluation system based purely off numerical achievement which was quickly picked up by corporations - although in theory it works, what happens is everybody manipulates the number system to produce the best results because getting ahead is so difficult in Japanese culture.
For example, since Japanese police precincts are judged on the percentage of murder cases they solve, many suspicious deaths are often written off as suicide or accidental overdose or the like. This behavior is repeated in sports leagues and the business world, where data is usually selectively given to show everything in a positive light. This wouldn't be as much of a problem except the government regulatory agencies run off the same numerically based system.
I believe Freakonomics covers this issue in relation to cheating in Sumo matches.

You combine that with a culture that frowns on exposing high-ranking people and you can end up with shit like this.

>>2704404
>The news agency said the blast was heard at 0610 local time on Tuesday (2110 GMT Monday). No other details were immediately announced.

Heard two hours ago? Did people cover this up or something? Or just was it hard to contact people with you know the destruction?

We will only find out what exactly has been fucking up so badly at Fukushima a few years from now.

>Watching the video on BBC
>"a couple is looking through the debris"
>"Karaoke bar used to be here"
>"But there are not only here for that"
>Man comes on
>He is looking for his father and mother.
>I want to find them.
>I want to find them....

;_;

its obviously melting down now. there has been an explosion heard, and tepco said they are evacuating staff from the area. time for me to get da fuck outta japan.

>watching fox news
>BREAKING NEWS
>AN EXPLOSION HAS BEEN REPORTED AT REACTOR TWO
Oh shit guys, we're about to go Chernobyl.

>>2704447
And the suppression pool is supposedly damaged

Whatever that is. Can someone explain this to me? I'm usually not on this board, but I figured there may be actual intelligent conversation about it here.

>>2704447

>mfw a couple days ago everyone on /sci/ was raging at the mere suggestion a meltdown was possible, saying it was all media hype

>>2704458
apparently it causes water leakage on someone's twitter

which means it basically may fuck up all hopes to cool that reactor.

This is not good. This is not good at all.

>>2704469
Fucking don't know what to say. It shouldn't happen, but the situation is unprecedented and the exact details are unavailable.

Staff are being evacuated. Can only mean that shit's going down.

>>2704469
>everyone
Some people weren't, actually. I can see why you would think total meltdown wasn't.

There have been so many fucking errors made by tepco since the earthquake it's unbelievable. Yesterday the 2nd reactor ran out of water because they didn't refuel their pumps and nobody was there checking it. It's incredible.

We'll,
meet again,
don't know where,
don't know when...
But I know we'll meet again some sunny day

A meltdown isn't as much of a problem as everyone thinks...

>>2704513
Corium is fun.

TEPCO are complete, total idiots.

That 4 rating is going to skyrocket.

3 explosions? Staff evacuated? Water leakage now? Partial defect in containment?

>>2704509
Are you suggesting that a meltdown of the reactor will trigger the dead man's switch on the Russian nuclear apocalypse device?

I guess the Premier does love surprises....

I'm willing to bet tepco won't tell people they are in danger until after the radiation has spread afar, to save face. That's the Japanese way.

>CNN
"Apparently, part of a nuclear fuel rod is now exposed"
by "Part of" the japanese mean "The containment vessel is open and exposed to the air". The reactor is now a massive threat meltdown or not.

>>2704507

thanks for confirming what I suspected. I've read that modern nuclear power plants are so failsafe that you basically have to be actively trying to cause a meltdown to make one happen. The problem here is the utter incompetence of every person at that plant. Something must have been radically, systematically wrong there for YEARS for shit to get like this. I hope people go to prison over it.

One of my friends said today after I asked him what he thought that there was no chance of meltdown.

His argument?

The people weren't idiots like they were at Chernobyl.

...

...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

>>2704563
Yep. See >>2704360.

TEPCO falsified 29 safety reports and ignored cracks in the containment vessels of fukushima 1,3, and 5 back in 1992-4. The systems supposed to ignite hydrogen in the reactors ALL failed, despite the fact there were primary and auxillary systems in place. The generators were built on exposed land in a tsunami zone, and not waterproofed in any way. when the reactor SCRAMed, nobody knew what they were doing.

>>2704538
At least when the Soviets fucked up they were willing to sacrifice dozens of people to fix what they could.
Suggestion:
Put some Banzai headbands on the Tepco safety commission board and tell them to get to the damn reactor and not back out until water is flowing.

>>2704551
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

BRB, east coast

>>2704596
brb Japan

I want to live out my own personal post meltdown fantasy.

yeah thats right trust at face value what business say to you.
Also take in some random comment on 4chan.

Jesus man you need to start questioning information given to you.

they were built in the 1970's btw i hear so not that modern...

>>2704590
Yeah, didn't some divers or some shit sacrifice their lives to prevent it becoming 10x worse? (Chernobyl)

Gotta respect the Soviets for having the balls to do that, at least.

The tepco suits are on TV now saying 'nothing to see here folks' and the reporters are getting angry at them.

>>2704599
I presume you play STALKER?

if so, brofist.

>>2704563
Keep in mind these aren't modern reactors. They were designed and built in the 60's and 70's.

>>2704603
People walked out on the roof and pulled pieces of the graphite moderator giving off about 11,000 REMS with nothing more than a paper suit and rubber gloves. They had 20 second shifts, because if they stayed there for longer, they would pass out. the Chernobyl cleanup guys were probably closer to the definition of hero than any soldier

>>2704604
Then that is a clear sign that they've lost control.

They most likely are undergoing meltdown as we speak, when someone says no comment or that everything is under control when CLEARLY IT IS NOT you know it's pretty bad.

>>2704417
So its a scientific fact that the japs are fudging the numbers? They've been building gadgets for years, and basically churning out patents like crazy. How can we trust any of the data they publish once we know how their internal politics skew the results

>>2704620
Damn, Russians have some big balls.

>>2704551
BOMB IT! Glass it over, that should work!

Solve things the American way!

I kid, but seriously, those TEPCO guys should put in jail for manslaughter, fraud, and dangerous incompetence.

We all know they'll get off with a few years / a slap on the wrist though. Fuck. Capitalism.

>>2704603
>Yeah, didn't some divers or some shit sacrifice their lives to prevent it becoming 10x worse?
Yep, basically two divers suited up and dove into an irradiated coolant pond to open a release valve.
They managed to open it, but never resurfaced.
Imagine that, blindly feeling your way along radioactive brine with zero visibility, aware you're going to die but also knowing that you need to complete your mission before you die to save the lives of your countrymen.

By the way, can people with the most recent updates start posting links? it's hard to surf 5 news sites, this thread, and write a report at the same time

>>2704612
I have. I have no touched it recently.

The last mission the game is close to broken even with patches.

I may have to pick up a mod and play it again in the near future

>>2704631
the worst part is they didn't know until about a day into the disaster how strong the radiation really was, because their geiger counters maxed out at 1Sv

How long before they expand the evacuation zone to 100km I wonder

It has happened now!

As i expected beforehand, the containment has a leak now!

Hahahaha

Stalker incoming as easy as that.

>>2704630
>So its a scientific fact that the japs are fudging the numbers?
It's gotten worse in the last few decades as their economy has stagnated and economic growth has basically ceased. Since only the best of the best have any chance of getting a good job, there is a high incentive to fudge the numbers.
>How can we trust any of the data they publish once we know how their internal politics skew the results.
Luckily, we have international peer review, which means their scientific society is as honest as anyone.

>>2704631

No. They just told people to go. By force. There was no declining.

>>2704644
Never. The zone will be extended to 25KM permanently, with the area downwind temporarily evacuated

So nobody will be living in fukushima for the next few hundred years?

50 employees remain at the plant.

They are the last line of defense. The only thing stopping the radiation. The line has been drawn. There is no retreat.

>>2704655
Actually they did not know what happened until a day or so after.

The fire department responded thinking it was an electrical fire, not a full scale meltdown.

Who here can't wait to play Stalker: Fukushima?

>>2704680
Don't worry.
They have all the latest equipment in personal radiation suits.

>>2704637
I doubt anyone in Japan would have to have the balls to do that. If the safety of the entire country is reliant on the courage of an individual, the country is fucked,

"After the explosion was heard, Kyodo News reported that radiation levels at the site exceeded the legal limit at the plant."

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/latest-updates-on-japans-nuclear-crisis-and-earthquake-a
ftermath/?hp#blast-heard-at-third-nuclear-reactor

>>2704691
Will there be Japanese lolis?

>>2704727
Japan have robots to do this job

So, if a complete meltdown/leak occurs, will that mean anything?
Or a plane will go by, throw some dirt, then someone build a concrete cage, and we forget the reactor ever existed?

It's all fucking over. They are evacuating. Wind is blowing south towards Tokyo. fuckckkkckk.

>>2704746
it will be cleaned up like windscale, and like chernobyl. Sand and lead will be dumped en mass, and then a concrete sarcophagus will be built. The reactor isn't going to be disassembled for decades, now.

>>2704740
Those robots are only for boosting stockholder confidence at trade shows, Japanese robots aren't really used in actual applications.

>>2704746
I highly doubt the integrity of the containment vessel has been compromised, so there isn't much cause for concern.

>>2704637

ain't no patriotism like Russian patriotism

those fat fucks on mobility scooters at tea party rallies could learn a thing or two from the reds

>>2704746
It will mean the cleanup will take longer and cost more money. That's about it.

>>2704765
There was another explosion, and then pressure dropped. Radiation is still rising. TEPCO have already been sued in the past for falsifying reports and even ignoring cracks in containment vessels 1,2, and 3 at fukushima I. Assuming that the vessel isn't compromised would be incredibly short sighted.

>Or a plane will go by, throw some dirt, then someone build a concrete cage, and we forget the reactor ever existed?
Have you forgotten that the Chernobyl sarcophagus is falling apart and if construction of the new tomb isn't completed soon could collapse? Which means a giant radioactive dust cloud headed towards Europe.
>>2704747
I have a feeling you're deliberately trying to scare people. Links please. Everyone - if you have an update post the link.
This is a major world event, certainly as the science board we can have an informative, thoughtful thread about it.

"half of the rods are exposed, which means there is no water surrounding them" CNN News. So basically, one of the Asian countries with intelligence and doesn't have 1,000,000,000 people, will be gone.

>>2704776
Russian patriotism < German patriotism

>>2704794

I don't see Germans diving into irradiated brine to save other's people's asses.

>>2704794
Both were admirable.

Sans holocaust, I would actually be kinda disappointed the nazis lost. A lot of their medical research is still used today, and we wouldn't be on the moon without them.

OMG GUIZ
THE JAPAN REACTOR JUST EXPLODED

>>2704794
>Germans
>Implying they didn't piss their pants he moment Hitler died.

Russian would have fought with Stalin or without him.

The way the tepco guys are talking, in their vague, roundabout japanese way, sounds like the reactor’s containment vessel has been compromised. They are buying themselves time now by saying they don't know exactly what is happening, and they are evacuating staff.

Oh look. Meltdown.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said there were signs that the fuel rods were melting in all three reactors.

"Although we cannot directly check it, it's highly likely happening," he told reporters.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12733393

>>2704811
engineers have been evacuated.

Japan:
1 reactor, OH its fine we have it all under control.
2 reactors, Dont worry we got this under control, no danger.
3 reactors, We're stepping back but we're keeping it under control.

...GOD DAMMIT JAPAN DEFINE 'UNDER CONTROL'

>>2704818
Partial meltdown is ok. Total core meltdown is a problem.

Either way, TEPCO's board of directors and entire safety inspector staff deserve to be raped by a dinosaur

>>2704637

the truth is slightly more mundane but still pretty fucking badass

The bubbler pool could be drained by opening its sluice gates. Volunteers in diving suits entered the radioactive water and managed to open the gates. These were engineers Alexei Ananenko (who knew where the valves were) and Valeri Bezpalov, accompanied by a third man, Boris Baranov, who provided them with light from a lamp, though this lamp failed, leaving them to find the valves by feeling their way along a pipe. All of them returned to the surface and according to Ananenko, their colleagues jumped for joy when they heard they had managed to open the valves. Despite their good condition after completion of the task, all of them suffered from radiation sickness, and at least two—Ananenko and Bezpalov—later died.[citation needed] Some sources claim incorrectly that they died in the plant.[39]

>>2704833
Partial Meltdown = Total Meltdown =Everyones Going to Die because there was a meltdown.

Cut the nazi/soviet pride stupid shit out. It doesn't matter.

Anybody have good links to livefeeds, twitter feeds, whatever the fuck I can get I'll take it. Also is there an English recording of these Tepco guys hamming it up?

>>2704828
All the effort in the world could have gone to waste.

So Prepare For Unforeseen Consequences!

>>2704841
>Some sources claim incorrectly that they died in the plant.[39]
Thanks for clearing that up. Still quite an accomplishment

Consequences will never be the same

>>2704843
>Partial meltdown = total meltdown =eveyone's gong to die
>transitive property.
>Partial meltdown = everyone's going to die


No.

>>2704844
>He wants to watched dubbed Japanese TV.

>>2704846
Oh god.. GET OUT OF MY HEAD.

This was posted on twitter. Allegedly the geiger counter is in Tokyo.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/geiger-counter-tokyo

>>2704844
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv
English dubbed japanese news channel

>>2704860
Tell that to the press. Worst case scenario is Partial Meltdown. Apparently the difference between a partial nuclear meltdown and a total nuclear meltdown is the size of the resulting nuclear explosion.

>>2704880

Fuck off with your "nuclear explosion", you uneducated monkey shit.

And now for something different, let's have some fun exploring Chernobyl:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKnFurg5-Ag
Translation in comment

>>2704880

This just in:
DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

ffff

radiation is now at around 8217mSv/h at the perimeter

>>2704819
Tier 3 Engineer here.
Leave the nuclear material to me.

>>2704909

no it isnt

>>2704903

>>2704916
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv
Just reported that 8217 micro sievert an hour was measured at the main gate.

well there was another explosion today and it fucked up the contaiment system.

here is the info link

http://www.transcontinental.com.au/news/world/world/general/new-explosion-at-japanese-nuclear-reacto
r-as-battle-to-stop-meltdown-goes-on/2103106.aspx

>>2704879
This is great, thanks
>>2704873
Is that curies per second?

that was 800, not 8000

>>2704879
thanks
>>2704913
fuck, where have you been, all of the sudden i feel so much safer

>>2704909
So whats that in REAL WORLD measurements?

Meh, still not sure I've heard anything distressing.

Smoke over #3 reactor.

Fuck last thing we need is fire.
Containment breach + fire = Chernobyl 2, Tokyo drift.

>>2704938
a microsievert is a millionth of a sievert and a sievert is the amount needed to cause radiation sickness (5 are certain death). 8217 doesn't sound bad until you remember that the average dosage from background radiation in an entire year is 5 micro sievert. In effect, being at the reactor for 2 weeks will now give you radiation sickness.

When Chernobyl happened, it spewed a plume of radioactive material that traveled over half of Eurasia before dissipating I think. Though the entire thing was due to those dumbass commies cutting corners in the construction of the reactor. Normally, the reactor is housed inside a concrete structure several meters thick to prevent the radiation from escaping in the event of a meltdown. Chernobyl had no such structure so the surrounding area was irradiated like Bruce Banner. Even with the infamous Three Mile Island incident, no one within 10 miles of the reactor got a dose of radiation no more than they would have from a chest x-ray exam at the doctor's office thanks to the precautions they took. So unless an explosion or another quake cracks open the concrete and exposes the reactor, Japan will be just fine.

>>2704938
3 times the human body regularly takes in a year

Did someone say Fuel Rod?

>>2704924
Explain how the measurement works and how dangerous it is. Not sure if I understood anything from wikipedia,

Fuck that safety commission asshole:
"At 614 today there was a sound of an explosion, thank you goodbye"
>>2704938
8217mSv/h = 3 times annual dose in one hour I think

>>2704962
hold on, what? I thought background was much lower
>>2704961
2000 weeks*

So there was a mysterious explosion at reactor 2, smoke now coming from reactor 3, and apparently something happening at reactor 4 (couldn't hear what though), and tepco has gone silent. FFFUUUU

>>2704970
So the same as a single dental x-ray. Why are people complaining again?

>>2704949
nah. heavy water rather than carbon to slow neutrons = can't ever be as bad as tchernobyl because water can't burn

Tokyo here. If I get radiation poisoning I'm taking down some fucking TEPCO bastards with me. Fuck this country.

>>2704956
>So unless an explosion or another quake cracks open the concrete and exposes the reactor, Japan will be just fine.
I'm hearing conflicting reports about whether or not the containment of the second reactor is breached. Officials are saying it's still intact, but sudden evacuation speaks otherwise.
Also, the news feed is saying the sudden pressure drop is indicative of cracks in the containment vessel.

>>2704976
Because you normally don't get dental X-rays hourly.

>>2704976

No, an x-ray is about 500 micro sieverts.

a microsievert is a millionth of a sievert and a sievert is the amount needed to cause radiation sickness (5 are certain death). 8217 doesn't sound bad until you remember that the average dosage from background radiation in an entire year is 2400 micro sievert. In effect, being at the reactor for an hour is equivalent to being somewhere else for three years.

this just in AMERICAN SHIPS EXPOSED TO RADIATION, LETS NUKE THE BASTARDS

>>2704982

Stay safe and good luck!

>>2704976
Because sensationalism sells.
>"OH, THE OFFICIALS HAVE NOTHING TO REPORT?!! IT MEANS SHIT JUST GOT REAL!"
No, it means instrumentation in the facility is currently broken. If they don't have any figures to present, there isn't much to talk about now is there?

Speaking of Japan getting irradiated, what does /sci/ think of Coppelion?

>>2704992

How much protective clothes helps to reduce that exposition?

>>2704997
>High radiation measurements
>No, it means instrumentation in the facility is currently broken.

You work for tepco, don't you?

PATROLLING THE MOJAVE DESERT ALMOST MAKES YOU WISH FOR A NUCLEAR WINTER?

-Explosion in suppression pool in reactor 2
-Pressure suddenly drops inside the containment vessel
-Smoke seen coming from reactor 3
-TEPCO 'nothing to see here'
-Haven't heard anything from them for about 45 minutes now.

Time to worry? I'm watching the TV like a hawk, but NHK is the only one reporting on Fukushima. The commercial networks all have their morning shows on at this time doing human interest shit about people who survived the tsunami.

>>2705005
>How much protective clothes helps to reduce that exposition?
Since the reactor is shielded that means that most of the radiation is from gamma radiation, so....there is no protective clothing. Your best bet is a tractor and a big lead plate

Not much. Pretty much the only thing masks and suits are good for is stopping you from inhaling radioactive dust or contaminating other areas. with it, and other than that they're useless.

>>2705014
I was talking about melting in the core, as well as water levels. We've known about the radiation for a while, but how much the core has melted is unknown.

Of course, the media sees this and thinks:
>"CHERNOBYL INCIDENT IMPENDING! WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR OBAMA?"
Which is why I'm a little bit skeptical about the reports coming in.

So, if the core structure is breached, does this mean we're getting a super-Chernobyl? What exactly is required for shit to hit the fan?

I'm so sick of the statist faggots here acting like Chernobyl IS NOT possible at this point.

That is exactly what the sate mediae wants you to think!!!!

The people running this situation are fools and it is disgusting that they are fighting so hard to play-down the situation.

>>2704873
13 cpm seems pretty background tier

>>2705036
Chernobyl was still reacting when shit hit the fan; these are not.

>>2705036
it would be a mini chernobyl at most. Remember, the most dangerous element in chernobyl wasn't radiation from the core, it was the dust and debris that blew across europe and contaminated the immediate area. Worst case scenario is that the containment vessel explodes due to a hydrogen explosion during a full meltdown, breaks the containment vessel, and spreads radioactive dust and vapour across the australasian and american continents, which is what happened in chernobyl.

>>2704956
>When Chernobyl happened, it spewed a plume of radioactive material that traveled over half of Eurasia before dissipating I think

and nothing happened.

there were like 50 direct deaths and few hundreds of tumors related to it.

people really overestimate the dangerousness of radiations.

>>2705020
State owned TV trash. Might as well watch soviet era propaganda

>>2705036
An explosion that breaks containment and blows radioactivo materials into the atmosphere.
Which shouldn't happen if nobody is retarded.

>>2705050
>and around 50,000 more cases of cancer
>and long term rises in sterility and lukaemia, even outside the exclusion zone

>>2705036
The chance of a situation like that is already gone if the pressure inside has gone down. The cores at chernobyl went semi-critical, exploded, and sent up a plume of fire and vaporized bits of the core (still undergoing fission). This can't happen at these plants. Worst case at this point is just radiation, not actual radioactive material getting around.

>>2705048
The worst-case scenario is more like a 3-mile island situation, whereby the area immediately around the containment facility is rendered unlivable. That's an unlikely situation, given the fortitude of the containment facilities in this place, as old as they are.

Anything like Chernobyl is impossible.

>>2705056
>if nobody is retarded
>TEPCO
>...

>>2705031
Yeah, I'm just yanking your chain. Some media reports are definitely over the top, but honestly it seems to me like this thread is more alarmist then most media right now.
>>2705036
>So, if the core structure is breached, does this mean we're getting a super-Chernobyl? What exactly is required for shit to hit the fan?
Fire or explosion that spreads high levels of radiation. Otherwise it's just a localized event.

New reports say possibility of containment breach, but also a drop in radiation levels from a few hours ago...take from this what you will

>>2705056
Sadly, they are incredibly retarded for the reasons shown here>>2704585

>>2704956
This. Also, wasn't the containment at Chernobyl made from GRAPHITE?

>>2705040
>>2705041
The trolling is starting to burn.

>>2705050
>Ha radiation can do nothing to me, to prove so I will stand in the middle of this reactor core
>Starts pucking and shitting uncontrollably and dies
Depends on how much radiation bro.
Also, wasn't there a village near Chernobyl that drank water fron the radioactive river, and now everyone there has horrible mutations/tumors?

>>2705062
nope.jpg
if TEPCO manage to keep fudging the seawater pumping, it's entirely possible that there's another meltdown followed by hydrogen explosion that tears the vessel apart. It's already compromised.

>>2705071
the moderator (thing that stops reaction) was graphite, yes.

>>2705071
not the containement. the stuff that they used to slow down neutrons to make the chain reaction possible. Twas a very old and rather unsafe design, that's how Fermi and his gang made first pile (reactor) ever in Chicago. In fukushima they used heavy water to do that afaik

Tepco just admitted radiation levels of around 8000 micro sieverts, and said that this radiation has probably been picked up by the wind...

>>2705071
no the neutron moderator used was graphite. it didn't really have a containment structure to speak of

>>2705079
Derp. The outer containment layers (where the seawater is being pumped into) breached during the initial explosions, which they knew would happen. Any gas created at this point will simply float away. So unless we have magically exploding water, we should be set on that front.

>>2705045
Right now it's definetly background tier, but it is fluctuating a bit more than normal. I hope it stays this way though.

http://park18.wakwak.com/~weather/geiger_index.html
Demonstrates a bit better what I mean concerning the fluctuation. There's certainly something different from normal, though fortunately nothing to worry about yet.

>>2705079
Right, right, TEPCO is lying, the explosion as already happened etc etc. Sounds impressive, but it's structurally impossible.

This is NOT a Chernobyl-like facility. The potential for anything like that simply isn't there, nor for anything on a smaller scale. Radiation leakage in the immediate area is a potential worry, so the area has been evacuated.

I like how they keep using "immediate".

"Yeah, there's no 'immediate' danger, just that if the thing does breach you'll slowly die incredibly painfully, slowly eaten from the inside out by a tumor the size of Rosie Odonell."

>>2705084
nope, graphite isn't the thing that stops the reaction. I think they use cadmium bars for that, or at least they used to in the first few nuclear reactors.

So whats the difference between a meltdown and criticality, and how does this compare to Chenobyl and three mile?
link?

>>2705110
Modern reactors use boron-carbide control rods.

Graphite is a neutron moderator. It increases the fission reaction rate.

>>2705123
Criticality is when the a steady state fission reaction occurs.

Meltdown is when the fuel overheats and melts due to lack of cooling. This can take place soon after a reactor shuts down if it's not properly cooled.

>>2705123
critical means that a self-propagating chain reaction can happen within the fuel. that's not an issue here because they've stopped the reactor by lowering cadmium (?) bars into it effectively absorbing most of the neutrons emitted by the uranium (and thus making it impossible for a sustainable chain reaction to occur)

"0052: Details are now emberging about radiation levels after the blast at Fukushima's reactor 2 at 0610 local time (2110 GMT Monday). Tokyo Electric officials say that one hour of exposure at the nuclear plant would be equivalent to eight times at what a person might experience naturally during the year."

For the local area, shit has hit the fan

>>2705124
>>2705135
boron-carbide alright, thanks.

Aside from the loss of life and general contamination of an area, why should I care if I live in North America?

And now another Tsunami please to spread to seeds of joy out there!

RADIATION LEVELS PER HOUR IS 8 TIMES WHAT WOULD BE EXPERIENCED IN A YEAR NOW, SAYS TOKYO ELECTRIC

THE LEVELS ARE RISING.

>>2705148
it'll scare people away from nuclear power all over the world even though the problems are mostly due to TEPCO's stupidity.

CBC reports third explosion, damage to cooling pool, fuel rods not badly damaged yet.

Japanese TV says likely rupture or damage somewhere along the cooling lines that could release radioactive steam or water

>>2705143
Hence the evacuation of all non-critical personnel in the vicinity. They're not taking chances with radiation poisoning.
>>2705148
The nuclear power debate will be damaged by fearmongers.

>>2705143
the acceleration of increase in radiation is accelerating. I guess the CV is down then,
>>2705148
learn to wind direction: wind blows over Japan, over atlantic, and into US.

>>2705148
Because it's interesting

>>2705171
Oh boo hoo my penis would glow for a day how quaint. I could probably fuck this raver chick I know if that happened.

>>2705161
The questions is where these figures come from.

Directly from the nuclear plant?

>>2705148
Also, in a worst case scenario you can expect a slight increase in radiation exposure if you live on the West Coast in a few days. Not nearly enough to harm you or anything, just worth pointing out.

>>2705180
from Tokyo Electric, who owns the plant.

so it may be worse than that, really.

>>2705177

http://mitnse.com/2011/03/13/why-i-am-not-worried-about-japans-nuclear-reactors/

>>2705182
You would need one hell of a disaster for something like that. The radiation leakage at this point is localized, and will likely remain so.

>>2705135
But what if those regulators fall out because of a gas explosion? Is there enough material in there to start an explosion? And what about the spare fuel they keep on site, the processed nuclear warheads?

Are the remaining technicians guaranteed to get serious radiation sickness at this point?

THINGS THAT ARE DANGEROUS:
reactor I
reactor II
reactor III
Spent fuel pool
THINGS THAT HAVE ALREADY EXPLODED:
reactor I
reactor II
Spent fuel pool

>>2705186
If that reactor was run by General Electric instead of the incompetent Tokyo Japan Electric, there wouldn't be a problem with the reactors.

Countdown for Tokio!

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/geiger-counter-tokyo

TETSUOOOO

>>2705057
>and around 50,000 more cases of cancer
>and long term rises in sterility and lukaemia, even outside the exclusion zone

except none of those have happened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster#Assessing_the_disaster.27s_effects_on_human_health


as I said there have only been about 50 direct deaths, which were workers who cleaned the plant, and a number of tumors in the hundreds. A number of 4000 cases of thyroid cancer but it's unclear how many of those can be attributed to the contamination, and in any case those can be cured in the 90% of cases.

that's all.

>>2705190
MIT works for TEPCO now?

>>2705190
Was valid until the thing cracked afaik.

>>2705197
>processed nuclear warheads?
You mean fuel rods? Also known as rock bars?

>>2705218
Hurr
>>2705226
This has been updated consistently, and was last updated 2:30 pm Japan time on the 15th. The explosion occurred earlier that morning, around 6.

Hydrogen explosions?
And you want us to put this shit in our cars?
Fuck that, gasoline is here to stay.

>>2705244

>>2705244
Nuclear powered cars are clearly the future.

Well looks like the Japanese news is repeating now and Tepco and the gov's don't have anything to say...
Guess I'll check back in an hour. Stay classy /sci/

>>2705257

>implying we'll need cars in the future

mfw im chilling safe at home in Scarborough (inside the evacuation zone of my local nuclear power plant)

one hour ago: radiation > 3 mSv almost everywhere in the region, but dropped to > 1 mSv now.

whats the conversion of 13 cpm to microsieverts? Are they not compatible? (FUCK YOU WOLFRAM)

Also, the geiger counter looks like its going up slowly.

>>2705266
People have been using cars before you were even born.
Just like coal power plants, gasoline cars are here to stay.

>>2705302

What could account for that? The radioactive material that was released decaying already and nothing more being released?

>>2705329

>implying I wasn't born in 1671

>>2705348
>The radioactive material that was released decaying already and nothing more being released?
It's not due to decay. It's likely due to dispersal, and possibly there hasn't been any drop in radiation leak - local conditions just changed so the meter detects less radiation wherever its located.
Alternatively, they may have fixed it so less is being released and the rate of release is now less than the rate of dispersal.

>>2705348
i have no explanation for that observation. it may be that the wind direction changed again.

The geiger counter in tokyo is ever so slowly rising.
Currently 0000,013.6X cpm. Earlier it was between 12.6 and 13.1

Those divers sound like the Japanese equivalent of Liquidators.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquidator_(Chernobyl)

right now:
"8,217 micro sievert per hour"
grays=0.008217 grays
-one year of radiation an hours

8:34pm CT The level of radiation lowered to around 2,000 micro sieverts per hour about 3 minutes after the highest levels were recorded. The officials are unsure why these levels are fluctuation so much.

the web page:
http://www.houshasen-pref-ibaraki.jp/present/result01.html
with the measurements is down somehow.
dammit the japanese people don't deserve this shit

>>2705409
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zx739LOE8U

>>2705405
still background tier

...
why did the tokyo geiger counter stream go down

>>2705493

...my god.

It has begun.

>>2705493
Conspiracy

>>2705429
>The officials are unsure why these levels are fluctuation so much.
Didn't reactor emission vary widely prior to explosion at the Chernobyl reactor due to localized pressure buildup?
That was of course reactor, not ambient measurements, which are heavily affected by weather conditions and such.
Also, I hate to make the Chernobyl comparison just because it seems to make people think we'll get a fuckhueg explosion.

>>2705493
I'm guessing censorship. Levels were rising, don't want panic.

>>2705546
Funny thing is the levels weren't really rising. 13 counts per minute is normal

>>2705244
Hydrogen powered cars are a pipe dream anyways.

There is no point to them as an alternative means of energy storage when we have electric cars and batteries available.

bullshit, imagine 20 millions of tokyo inhabitants surfing onto THAT page the same time. the servers are full.

>>2705563
Depends on how you get the hydrogen, how easy it is to get oil/electricity, etc.
See: Iceland

/sci/ college-aged arrogance makes me LOL hard. I've been getting shouted down by engfags with no real world experience. A 9000 foot steel wall cannot protect you from stupidity, hubris or cascading failure. Just because you don't think terrible shit will happen doesn't mean it can't.

A catastrophic failure mode always carries a positive probability, and it's invariably greater than you think it is. It's not likely to Chernobyl, but...shit happens. Too bad the Japs will have to glow in the dark for my lulz.

tl;dr lrn2o-ring/cdo/tacomanarrows/foamstrike/brownieyouredoinaheckofajob

I'm scared.

Not for myself, obviously but for those 50 engineers.

>>2705563
Batteries aren't quite yet good enough at energy storage to supply our transportation needs. It's really a question of when better battery (or nano-capacitor) technologies will let us go several hundred miles on a single charge with quick recharging and at a moderate price.
Meanwhile, hydrogen as a technology is ready to go but needs billions in infrastructure before it becomes viable for an entire nation.

I agree that we should be focused more on electric technology as the wave of the future, but in the meantime hydrogen provides a pretty damn good alternative to petroleum.

http://www.ehow.com/how_5329248_read-geiger-counter.html ill just leave that there

>>2705623
>>2705623
>>2705623

If they would have flooded the reactors to begin with none of this would have happened....

>>2705617
>Just because you don't think terrible shit will happen doesn't mean it can't.

NO SHIT, SERIOUSLY?

The reason you keep getting shouted down is probably because you keep saying stupid shit like above and pretend we don't already know it.

>>2705617
>A catastrophic failure mode always carries a positive probability, and it's invariably greater than you think it is

Thank you for this scientific analysis. A degree in nuclear physics is headed your way.

>>2705641
But they were flooded.

>>2705617
The fuck are you talking about? Discussion in this thread has veered towards the more negative outcomes. Nobody is fucking shouting you down. This is probably one of the most well referenced and reasoned debates I've ever seen on /sci/.

>>2705623
>Not for myself, obviously but for those 50 engineers.
Anybody know if they're cycling out technicians? If there's some poor SOB in there who's been in there trying to fix the thing since yesterday - that's like 36 years of ambient radiation exposure in 12 hours at the highest recorded exposure rate.
Also, those rates were at the facility entrance, I wonder what it is in the building closer to the reactor.

Not good.
Source: http://park18.wakwak.com/~weather/geiger_index.html

>>2705617
In other news, spontaneous combustion is now feared by the masses.

So far, from what I can see, this seems to be the best place for reliable updates that do not exaggerate nor downplay the risks and science of the situation.

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2011/03/japan-megaquake-update.html

"A third explosion at 0610 local time at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant may have damaged the steel containment vessel surrounding reactor #2, according to reports on the BBC website. Tokyo Electric Power Company officials reported that radiation levels at the plant spiked this morning at eight times what a person normally would receive during the course of a year, according to Kyodo New Agency.

Many workers remain on site at the plant, however, and a breach in the containment vessel has not been confirmed at this time."

Anybody wondering as i am why the fuck they built a nuclear power plant next to the ocean? What happens if that thing goes critical and poisons the surrounding ocean. Doesn't the average diet in japan contain mainly seafood?

>>2705674
>eight times
whoops thought it was three times.
>that's like 96 years of ambient radiation exposure in 12 hours at the highest recorded exposure rate.
fixed
....holy balls of jesus they better have some radaway.

>>2705674
>discussion has veered
That's kind of my point. Nothing is fucked...until it is. Then everyone is shock, shocked to that gambling is going on. Conditional probabilities FTW.

>>2705719
>Anybody wondering as i am why the fuck they built a nuclear power plant next to the ocean?
Nuclear reactors need to be located near a large source of water for cooling. Japan's so frikin tiny it's not like they had much choice.

>>2705617

Mass hysteria can also cause a lot of problems.

>Japanese TV
Fire in #4 reactor - apparently no radioactive dust kicked up yet but likely significant release
#2 containment vessel confirmed damaged and leaking

fuck I didn't even know there was a #4

How long will it take radioactive clouds to reach the west coast of North America following any worst-case or pretty-damn-bad-case scenario and how far could it move inland?

>>2705771
Unit 4 was already in cold shutdown even before the earthquake. The worst they'll get is some fire damage.

>>2705774
I saw a graphic that said 10 days, but I don't really know.
When does a thread autosage? do we need a new one?

>>2705774
You would have to destroy all three reactors damaged right now in a spectacular blast for them to be kicked into the jet-stream, and then it would take 7-10 days at its highest possible speed to reach Seattle.

Press conference right now says the spent fuel at 4 can't catch fire.

>>2705771
4-6 are shut down for maintenance. They may or may not contain radioactive material, but they weren't "on" for the earthquake/tsunami.

>>2705788
There's quite a few other threads going on, this one seems pretty good
>>2705081

>>2705783
#4 has spent nuclear fuel in it, so it looks highly possible large amounts of radiation will enter the atmosphere. Shit just got much more real.

>>2705789
>>2705795
>>2705783
>>2705771
The real danger is the unlikely event the fire spreads to the other reactors. If radioactive material starts getting kicked up that's a real problem.

Everything that has happened so far is pretty minor considering the site suffered a beyond design basis tsunami. As in, holy shit, this tsunami is bigger than anything for which we planned. As in, holy shit, everything is still reasonably under control after experiencing an event for which the site was not designed. YOU HEAR ME YOU FUCKERS? THIS PLANT WASN'T EVEN DESIGNED FOR THIS SHIT AND IT IS HANDLING IT LIKE A TOTAL BRO! LIKE YOUR BRO WHO WINGMANS THE GIRL YOU DIDN'T EVEN KNOW COULD BE THAT UGLY.

But it will probably end up like Chernobyl because that is totally reasonable.

>>2705815
>so it looks highly possible large amounts of radiation will enter the atmosphere.

And how is that going to happen at reactor #4?

>>2705676
Where is that counter?

I can't read the moon-runes and Google doesn't translate pictures

>>2705815
1. spent fuel is stored underwater
2. all the reactors have spent fuel pools, and if two hydrogen explosions didn't manage to damage them I don't think a little fire is anything to panic about

>>2705835
Because it's on fire.

>>2705815
See
>>2705789
>Press conference right now says the spent fuel at 4 can't catch fire.

>>2705815
stop talking about things you do not understand, you just look like an idiot...

>>2705835
It's like they don't know #4 and its spent fuel pool are completely full of water.

400 MILLIsieverts detected near plant according to Jap tv. Not completely sure about context, though...they might just be blabbing

http://www.ustream.tv/user/hiroshi_shinji
Press on the live to see geiger, its hitting 22 soon!

>>2705842
>2. all the reactors have spent fuel pools, and if two hydrogen explosions didn't manage to damage them I don't think a little fire is anything to panic about
My guess is the higher than normal radiation readings are completely due to a dry spent fuel pool.

>>2705845

That's it? There's nothing to worry about then.

>>2705858
There's no way it just multiplied by 5000 so fast.


...is there?

>>2705842
Isin't it possible the water could be evaporated?

Here is the information as per the Japanese Prime Minister and Chief Cabinet Secretary. Source is NHK World (Japan News):

Now there is an evacuation to 10km from number 2 PLANT. Not reactor, PLANT.

People up to 30km from reactor number 2 at number 1 plant are being asked to remain indoors. ALL people within 20km of PLANT 1 are being asked to evacuate.

The Japanese Govt. have asked the Japanese people to act calmly. Watch the stock market now.

Here we go (information for PLANT 1 - Dai-ichi):

Number 4 reactor: is on fire. There has been a hydrogen explosion there. There has been an implosion. Radiation is being released into the environment.

Number 2 reactor: there was a blast 30 minutes after number 4's explosion. A hole has been observed in the reactor. Radioactive material has been released to the environment.

At 10:22am between reactor 2 and 3, 30milliSievert and at reactor 4 100 milliSievert. At reactor 3 the reading was 400 MILLI Sieverts. Note MILLI, not micro, and this is confirmed information.

>>2705865
Never touched in this stuff, how do i reed the counter?

>>2705858
Instead of switching between units, they should just use the same units for the constantly changing values, just so it makes more sense to the public.

>>2705896
>>2705896
Lies, lies, and more lies.

They're working on 4 and it's going fine. 1,2, and 3 have all be stabilized and are at less than 100C. And that much radiation isn't enough to kill you (or even make you particularly sick) if you were right on top of it, let alone 30km away. It's a safety precaution and nothing else.

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsunamiupdate01.html

huge amounts of radiation being released now after fire at the plant. FUCK YOU you guys who said nothing could go wrong at fukushima.

>>2705896
>>2705920

We are into "you better be wearing lead" territory:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_%28radiation%29

Where are people getting info now? BBC seems to be offline for the night.

>>2705943

reactor 4 is on fire you fucking idiot. that site hasnt been updated. massive radiation release.

So, 400 ms, 0.4 Servs/hour?

>>2705970
>03:31 Japan's nuclear safety agency says the fire at No. 4 reactor of the Fukushima nuclear plant has been extinguished.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxXF8ommPK0

everyone chill the fuck out, the reactor containment is fine

>>2705970

#0331: A fire which broke out Tuesday at Fukushima has now been extinguished, media reports say.

>>2705896
This confuses me. I thought The no.4 reactor was down for maintenance before the quake.

But it seems we have core containment breach at at least one of the out of control BWRs. And that means Zirkonium and uranium fission products are freely entering the atmosphere propelled by a 2k°K+ fission bonfire.

Does anybody know if a plutonium reactor is breached? that would be worse.

And the weather might turn out much worse than expected. Seasoned German meteorologist predicts winds traveling down the coast for the next two days threatening areas near Tokyo.
Flash:
http://www.kachelmannwetter.de/japan/japan.html

>>2705997
I'm going to click on this but, for the record, I am expecting Rickroll.

>>2706033
just more hydrogen, nothing to see here people, move along.

>>2705896
>Number 2 reactor: there was a blast 30 minutes after number 4's explosion. A hole has been observed in the reactor. Radioactive material has been released to the environment.

That sounds like game over. With secondary containment breached can they possibly prevent a full meltdown? Without the pressure to move the water it sounds like they won't be able to keep the heat down. In the event of a full meltdown that is exposed to outside air, how much damage are we looking at? Clearly it'll be far more localized (barring some explosion flinging the core out of the reactor) but we're talking Chernobyl levels aren't we?

>>2706063
Not unless something carries the radioactivity away from the reactor, ie a fire or a space dragon.

>>2706075
Well yeah that's what I meant about localized. I was asking more about quantity. I agree that barring an outside force such as an explosion inside the reactor like Chernobyl had this stuff would stay put, I'm just wondering how much radioactivity could be expected.

# NEWS ADVISORY: Radiation 33 times normal level measured in Utsunomiya, Tochigi (13:12)

Utsunomiya is located about 110 kilometers to the southwest of Fukushima.

>>2706075

What about a meteorite made of GINGER KIDS?!?!?

>>2706090
FUCK

>>2706090

radioactive shit hit the fan

Not sure why it's falling.

>>2706090
So unusually high, but not particularly dangerous, levels of radiation.

>>2706113
ok, that's REALLY strange.

>>2706090
FUCK FUCK FUCK, Don't let this be true.

>>2706090
Presumably this is downwind from Fukushima?

>>2706113
Might be that the wind direction changed.

>>2706090
33 times normal?

someone walked by the Geiger counter with a banana, again.

tyrone, get your shit together.

>>2706122
Supposedly the fluctuations are in-line with what you'd expect from a criticality accident, which is what is suspected to have happened with reactor 4's spent fuel storage.

>>2706134

>>2706134

I lol'd hard.

>>2706137
Wait, how did reactor 4 have a criticality accident?

What happened to it being underwater?

>>2706117

Yeah, I wonder how much "normal" levels are.

33 times .000001 is only .000033

Need moar info

>>2706128

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/asia/

click the ticker on top

wow. no new news updates as of late. wtf is going on

NEWS ADVISORY: Radiation amount in Chiba Pref. twice to 4 times normal level (13:14)

TOKYO BETTER HAVE THEIR ANUSES PREPARED WITH LEAD

>>2706144
Not the reactor itself. The spent fuel was apparently improperly stored (I guess they were too focused on the reactor itself and neglected other things)

>>2706185
That's...

that's bad.

Reuters! Why u no post anymore updates?!

So it seems like crisis averted?

There's always The Drudge Report for updates.

Does anyone have a stream of a geiger counter in Japan?

>>2706647
http://park18.wakwak.com/~weather/uploaddata/radiation.jpg

>>2706717
Where were these taken? Is this live?

>>2706764
It's live. Lat 35°39' 28.08", long:：139°24'05.40",

>>2706764
http://park18.wakwak.com/~weather/geiger_index.html
Is the full source page. I linked directly to the jpg to preserve their bandwidth