/sci/ - Science & Math

They evacuated to a 10km radius and there's been a leak.

They're using hydrant water to cool the pile now... that's not good.

http://twi_tter_com/arclight

>>2684460
when I had heard the 3km evacuation it said those 3-10km radius were being advised to keep in doors
eep

It just HAD to be one of the old reactors.

I dunno where my local fallout shelter is, where can I find information on this?

>>2684482
You're absolutely fucking fine. Stop it.

>>2684482
its usually the big hospital or the big school in your area

>>2684477
Generation I? II? III?

>>2684504
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_I_Nuclear_Power_Plant

>>2684504
Gen II, but from the 70s. They were set to start going offline, first one on the 26th of this month.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_BWRs

>>2684482
Contact your local representative Vault Tec.

Just remember, the Vaults weren't really meant to SAVE anyone.

>>2684553
>They were set to start going offline, first one on the 26th of this month.
Of all the rotten luck.

>>2684557
Fuck year, Fallout!
I'm gonna be an NCR when I grow up!

I'm actually terribly nervous about this whole thing, they're trying to keep the rods cooled with a damned firehose, what's going to happen if the containment vessal is popped?

SHUT UP FAGGOTS.

if worst come to worst they will just cloud seed the nuke cloud. and hope to does not float towords the ocean

>>2684571
>I'm actually terribly nervous about this whole thing, they're trying to keep the rods cooled with a damned firehose, what's going to happen if the containment vessal is popped?
What? No, you skipped quite a few steps there, bro.

You're afraid because you don't know how these work, especially the safety systems. They're trying to limit damage and contamination, but the "containment vessal is popped" stage is nowhere close.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_Water_Reactor_Safety_Systems

>>2684588
Very little radiation has been released, and it was done intentionally, with the knowledge that it was necessary,that it wasn't much, and that the wind was out to sea.

>>2684571

As long as they can keep the rods underwater everything is fine. Small amounts of steam will be bled off to keep the pressure at a reasonable level, but it won't be very radioactive as long as the rods don't melt, which seems pretty unlikely at this point. Absolute worst case they run out of water/power to pump it and the core melts down (Three Mile Island), but fissile material will be entirely contained and a minimal amount of radiation escapes with the aforementioned steam. Explosion and sustained firefighting Chernobyl-style is completely out of the question.

These plants (1-3) were going to go offline soon anyway. If there is significant damage, they won't bother getting units 1-3 running again.

>>2684604
>You're afraid because you don't know how these work, especially the safety systems.

This is entirely true, and I'm not afraid to admit that.

>>2684620
>As long as they can keep the rods underwater everything is fine.
At last measurement, 90cm are exposed, not underwater.

>>2684571
Nothing much.

Really, nothing much.

When chernobyl blew, american news painted the fallout as a death cloud that would kill everything where it spread. It traveled right over finland and scandinavia.

A few american finnish people were amazed when they called here and people were actually alive.

The real-world effects are that globally a few more cancer cases will happen. In Japan, a big clean-up operation will commence, after which the ground around the plant will be off-limits except for authorities for an undetermined number of years.

Further effects are that people will panic, nuclear power will be even more shunned, we're never going to get a nuclear-pulse drive or a nuclear-powered VASIMR.

After a while, people will settle down, but the green propagandists will squeeze all they can from this, no matter how non-factual the stories they will tell.

>>2684624
>At last measurement, 90cm are exposed, not underwater.
Source? Not trolling.

>>2684610
What sort of radioactive material and why?

>>2684627
I was just getting that for you, sorry digging through my history accidentally closed links

>>2684626
Yeah. IIRC Chernobyl only killed 55 people. And Chernobyl was taking very seriously worldwide. Even with the current situation, a Chernobyl scenario is impossible. We made damn sure of that.

>>2684627
>Touruma Fuel rod was exposed 90cm above the water inside the reactor core at 11:40AM. Now water for fire-fighting being injected. Fukushima No. 1 NP

Not the base source, but still digging through my history and links, I've been a busy man since hearing about the nuclear issue.

>>2684639
dero, forgot the link. It's twitter:

http://twitter_com_/arclight

>>2684629
Lightly radioactive steam intentionally released from some part to relieve pressure. Not sure of details, feel free to look them up and post ITT. I'm trying to do the same.

>>2684644
>>2684629
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/12/3162223.htm?section=justin

http://www.tepco.co.jp/cc/press/11031214-j.html

Less radiation exposure than you'd get from flying in an airplane.

>>2684680
Yep.

But if those control rods were exposed like the twitter feed says, I wonder if there's enough contamination/damage to make it not worth decontamination and repairs. These reactors were scheduled to go offline soon anyway.

>>2684680
Of course the Japanese media would say that...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/12/japan-tsunami-earthquake-live-coverage
>5.30am: @tukky_nt RT @Reuters: FLASH: #Japan nuclear authorities say high possibility of meltdown at Fukushima Daiichi No. 1 reactor - Jiji. RT @TomokoHosaka: Japan nuclear safety commission official says meltdown at nuclear power plant possible, AP confirms. #earthquake #jpquake

High possibility of meltdown, eeep.

>IIRC Chernobyl only killed 55 people

20+ man fire-brigade that went to extinguish fire after explosion died in few weeks.
Than there were thousands of military cleaning and sealing the reactor that mostly died or suffered from radiation
And i forget hundreds if not millions of civilians who suffered from radioactive cloud.

Btw, if Chernobyl had a nuclear explosion after Soviets would fail to cool the reactor, Europe, West Asian and Middle-East would be uninhabitable for like 30.000 years.

Chernobyl shouldn't be cited as a credible example, it was an unsafe design that bypassed safety protocols and was built too close to a population centre

>>2684732
That would be a first ever, right? No nuclear pile has ever melted before in the history of mankind?

>>2684783
Right, right, not fearmongering at all.

Fortunately I've had my training with Red Cross, including protection from fallout and procedures for rescue and support operations near and in a nuclear power plant during a core meltdown accident.

Part of each of those courses, drills and seminars were the facts about radiation, radioactive contamination, safety measures and details about past accidents.

I've been to chernobyl and got a mildly radioactive, lead-sealed medal with actual on-site material inside as a memento on my third visit. I've also talked with a couple of the survivors.

And, while you got some parts right, you got others just horribly, horribly wrong.

I'm a nuclear engineer and 90% of the stuff in this thread is bullshit. Are you guys confusing control rods with fuel rods? As long as the reactor isn't breached the decay products should be contained, and even then there would be a containment structure AROUND the reactor to mitigate the leak. Also some people are really overblowing the idea of these heavy radioactive elements becoming airborne. They're heavy, they're going to fall and soak into the ground.

If this plant doesn't use a graphite moderator (I'd bet it doesn't) it's going to be physically impossible for it to Chernobyl.

>>2684864
>>2684864
>>2684864
>>2684864
>>2684864
>>2684864
>>2684864
>>2684864
>>2684864
>>2684864
>>2684864
>>2684864
>>2684864
>>2684864
>>2684864
>>2684864
>>2684864
>>2684864
>>2684864
>>2684864
>>2684864

this times ten to the 15th power
>mfw sci is supposedly the least ignorant board on 4chan and still there are uninformed retards everywhere

U.S. is sending another military vessel with Nuclear Coolant to help out.

Also, the other military vessel nearby is currently being used to help the survivors.

>>2684864
Well, aren't we the Fun-killer.

>>2684864
I very much doubt your expertise. Nuclear fuel rods can be thousands of degrees Kelvin. The plant needs energy to pump water in to cool the rods. If water pressure builds up or if the rods run out of coolant, boom. The fuel rods are hot enough to burn the plant down. And your bit about radioactivity not spreading "cuz it's heavy" is ridiculous, else people would still be living in Chernobyl.

>>2684902
Why can't they hook a naval ship's engine up to the plant? Surely there must be a way.

>>2684919
I thought they had already restored power.

>>2684913
>herp
>herp herp herp
>DERP
RedCrossfag here, you just herped so hard that you derped.

>>2684913
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Chernobyl didn't have an isolation chamber and it also exploded, so unlike this the radioactive material was launched into the air.

>>2684936

I don't know how big the isolation chambers are in Japan(although they can't be in the ground due to contamination for underground water),but they could prevent the same size explosion like in Chernobyl.

BUT if nuclear reaction with exlosion as the result happens, than the half of earth if fucked.

That's why Soviet Union went bankrupt trying to seal the reactor and prevent material to self-detonate by throwing the full military strengh for something as big as 4 story appartment building.

>>2684927
Red Cross Guy, you are an authority on nothing.

>>2684936
If the plant incinerates itself, the ash will carry up radioactive material. There WILL be fire if the fuel rods are exposed.

tl;dr Fukushima Reactor isn't bare like Chernobyl. Melt down means they have a ruined reactor, but its still protected.

Russian reactors are fucking retarded in design.

>>2685021

Nuclear reaction with explosion? What the fuck are you talking about?

>>2685027

Oh there will?

ITT: Come in and shit out your dumbass ideas about how fission plants work

too late

>>2685044
lots of energy + water = steam explosion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m3qjw_bNjo

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/japan_quake/
Shut the fuck up you misinformed cockbags.
Jesus christ, /sci/ really is the dumbest board on 4chan.

>>2685101
"URGENT: Concerns of core partially melting at Fukushima nuke plant
TOKYO, March 12, Kyodo

The core at Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant's No. 1 reactor may be partially melting, the nuclear safety agency said Saturday.

Radioactive substance cesium was detected around the reactor, it said.

==Kyodo"

Seems bad bro. Sounds like Three Mile Island all over again, at least to a layman. (Even I know this is nothing like Chernobyl, though.)

>>2685044
If too much water evaporates without cool water being pumped in the zircalloy coating around the fuel rods will melt off. Best case scenario, the cooling pool gets exposed to the nuclear fuel rods without their outer coating, spreading radioactive particles throughout, contaminating the entire tank. Worst case scenario, the pumps are never turned back on and the fuel rods evaporate all the water and heat the facility until something starts to burn...

>>2685112
>mfw the news ticker is gone now
They successfully released pressure. Everything is fine right now.

>>2685117
They still need power to pump in water don't they?

>>2685125
The meltdown is under control at the moment.

Chernobyl was a badly designed reactor with few safety measures built in, run by incompetent engineers. On the day of the meltdown, they had purposely deactivated the few existing safety measures in order to perform some kind of retarded experiment.

Three Mile Island was a relatively minor accident that was blown way out of proportion. The amount of radiation leaked to the surrounding area was less than background cosmic radiation we receive all the time.

Just so the dumbasses in this thread can get their history right.

>>2684820
>I've been to chernobyl and got a mildly radioactive, lead-sealed medal with actual on-site material inside as a memento on my third visit.
I'm jelly.

Vapour being released is 1000 times the safe toxic level and potentially lethal. US is sending over emergency supplies of coolants so that they can stabilise the reactor.

>>2685147
>Vapour being released is 1000 times the safe toxic level and potentially lethal.
FALSE

>>2684864
This. Nuclear engineer here as well, this thread is full of idiocy.

>>2684913
>degrees Kelvin
Stopped reading right there. Get the fuck out.

>>2684626

Shame how a little accident (It's not like conventional power plants haven't gone up in smoke) will ruin the future's reputation.

>>2684783

>Implying the radioactive material used in power plants is fissile enough to cause a nuclear explosion.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this man is derpin' derps.

>>2685182
I originally had Celsius, but I substituted it out because I like kelvin. Unfortunately I did not take out "degree".

Explosion heard at Fukushima - Reuters
(twitter) Reuters/status/46479222654513152

>>2685282

It says it right in the headline. Explosion not from reactor. You stupid, sensationalist prick.

So many 'nuclear engineers' in this thread, lol.

>>2685365
Actually, yes. Problem?

>>2685404

would you be afraid to be on the west coast right now?

or in japan for that matter

Reactor ceiling just collapsed.

>>2685416
where are you getting that info?

fffffffffffuuuuuuu

ceiling collapsed. nuclear engineer fags, what does this meannnn?

>>2685413

...Anon, I'm scared and I'm on the fucking EAST COAST.

The world is going to hell in a handbasket and we're the eggs along for the ride.

>>2685416

Source?

>>2685425

http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2

l2 google

I was listening to NPR today and some "Physicist" from the "union of concerned scientists" (anti-nuke lobby) basically described this as a catastrophe and a second Chernobyl.

I swear I nearly drove off the road laughing.

>>2685425
Watching a stream

>>2685430
Yeah, but you're a stupid tripfag, not a nuclear engineer, so please stfu while informed people discuss this matter.

>>2685435

a video stream? hook me up brooo

http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php?smp&lang=eng

Malcolm Grimston, a nuclear energy expert from Imperial College London, has told the BBC that as long as any nuclear meltdown is small-scale, it can be contained: "For example, there was one in the Chapel Cross plant in south-west Scotland in the 1960s, and at the end of that it only affected two of what they call the fuel channels, the long tubes where the fuel is put. They simply sealed those off, there was no release of radioactivity offsite and the plant continued to operate for 30 years."
FUCK I SWEAR TO GOD... GREEN PEACE WILL USE THIS TO DRIVE A NAIL INTO NUCLEAR POWER...


fml

>>2685442
> Earth apporaching objects (objects that are known in the next 30 days)
>(2007 CT26) 12th March 2011 0 day(s) 0.1810 70.5 57 m-130 m 8.41 km/s 30276 km/h
>12th March 2011
Well, damn,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg4uogOEUrU&feature=player_detailpage#t=43s

YEP, SURE LOOKS LIKE A STEAM LETOFF TO ME, fucking retards on /v/.

Last time I checked, it was God's retribution for Pearl Harbor.

From what I can gather from news about Fukushima (source links at http://gigazine.net/news/20110312_nuclear_fukushima_melted/))

>To avoid confusion, keep in mind that there are two reactor sites, Fukushima 1 with six reactors and Fukushima 2 with 4 reactors.
>Situation stable at all reactors but one. Steam being released from 4 reactors
>Some concern about Fukushima 1 reactor 2 and Fukushima 2 reactor 1 but they appear stable now.
>Number 1 reactor at Fukushima 1 is the main cause of worry.
>Radiation levels inside control room 1000 above normal (sounds dramatic but not that high all in all). Radiation at second valve was so high they temporarily held back from sending people to manually open it. First valve opened without incident.
>Pressure at Fukushima 1 peaked at 840 kiloPascals, dropped to around 750 kiloPascals, then dropped to 555 kPa (I presume after second valve was opened). Normal operating pressure is 400 kPa.
>Up to 170 cm of fuel rods exposed. Situation irretriavable (full meltdown?) if 5 meters exposed. Unclear whether water level is rising now.
>Some melting damage might have occured, as indicated by detection of Cesium as well as level of rod exposure.
>mobile power generators have arrived and they are trying to hook them up to get the pumps working (first arrived many hours ago). No news about how it's progressing. Many fire-engines also present.
>Casualty report from Fukushima 2: "A worker was lightly injured spraining his left ankle and cutting both knees when he fell while walking at the site. After medical treatment, the worker is resting in the office." On a more serious note, several earthquake-related casualties at Fukushima 1. One employee has also received a 106.3mSv dose of radiation.

>>2685442
you have just taken my paranoia to the next level

NHK TV is telling people to protect themselves from radiation, stay inside and not drink tap water.

>>2685456
>>2685456

HOLY SHIT

I WASN'T HOLDING ON TO MY BUTT ENOUGH FOR THAT.

>>2685459
Why is the reaction continuing as the moderator drains out?

>>2685456
all i see is a pressure drop.
nothing harmful

>>2685477
HAARP JUDEO-BOLSHEVISM!

>>2685477

Completely harmless.

Alright, mr. imma nuke engineer

What's the worst that can happen in this situation?

>>2685473
You can't switch off a nuclear plant that fast. There will be no more neutron-induced fission, but the decay chain of the fission products will continue for a very, very long time.

>>2685494
yeah, it's just some burning steam little pressure drop. don't worry, and stay in line for your iPad dear good sir.

CNN is covering this now.

where the fuck did the nuclear engi's go

>>2685524
To bed. Shitty hype isn't worth their time.

>>2685413
Apologies, I was in another thread.

No, I wouldn't be even slightly worried right now. Japan is pretty much on their shit. Also, if it's any comfort, I've actually done research on vaporization, entrainment, and transport of nuclear materials by plumes. This makes me think "whatever, bro."

>>2685495
Not the other guy, but a naval reactor operator. If enough of the coolant drains, the peak central temperature will exceed the melting point of the zircaloy fuel cladding, causing the whole core assembly to melt itself into a pile of slag, most likely remaining inside the containments.

>>2685508
>>2685494

I can't tell if you're serious, because I don't know what the intended steam letoff would look like, and I don't think you do either.

>99% of 4chan thinks nuclear meltdown = pic related
dipshits erry one of 'em

this whole thread is retarded

fuck you /sci/ fuck you

>>2685536
brofist

>>2685538
So I can go to bed without shitting myself?

>>2685548

I don't know, can you? Most people master that by the age of three or four.

>>2685548
Be sure to use plastic sheets just in case.

I pooped

>>2685547
Word, son.

getting explained on CNN right now

what in the fuck happened at fukushima?

>>2685580
Very shittily and with lots and lots of emotional bull.

wtf lol he is comparing the steam to the smoke from 9/11 on CNN

FUCK YOU CAN JUST WATCH IT
WHY THE FUCK DO YOU INSIST ON HEARING IT SECOND HAND
>IMPLYING RELIABILITY
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/
FUCK YOU

Explosion lol.

Has shit just got real?

they straight up spelled fukushima fukAshima on CNN

loled

then they just said 900 people killed and i pooped

Are there any radioactive gays, sorry I mean nuclear engineers, that have a better understanding of what's happening?

this mother fucker is talking about weather in japan right now

really?

>>2685612

wat? srsly? from the explosion?

this whole "RELEASE OF RADIOACTIVE GASSSS" thing is being blown out of proportion.

the fuel rods cracked a bit, and are releasing a lot of xenon-135, a byproduct of the fission process.

as the reactor cools down (takes a while) they're just slowly releasing the excess Xenon at a very controlled rate. this isn't anything major, just standard shutdown procedure. if anything they're handling it rather well

>>2685631

Yeah, except for the massive explosion that has just happened.

In a period of 1 hour, 1015mSv was released.

What does this mean?

sweet here comes the cancer

>>2685643
wasn't the reactor itself.

this whole thing is being blown out of proportion

especially every news agency picking up on this "1,000 times normal levels"

the normal levels are almost nothing.
more radiation from cosmic rays than from 1000 times normal levels at that plant

Video of 'explosion'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12720219

Am I the only one thinking the explosion was caused by a Japanese Homer Simpson?

>>2685649
millisivert

measure of radiation

>>2685612

Please elaborate on that death count and if you can, provide a source.

>>2685661
I meant what does this mean if people are exposed to it?

>>2685663

900 deaths from the earthquake they are being very vague about what they are talking about on CNN between the tsunami/earthquake/reactors

only "a few injuries" they have said from the reactors

>>2685663

dude nobody's dead yet except from the stupid earthquake/tsunami

>>2685660

>>2685672
CNN's really being a bitch. They have no idea how anything works so the tell what would happen in the worst case situation.

They also seem to be ignoring geology.

>>2685657
When did that happen? Did that happen recently?

>>2685669
1 Sv causes nausea, 2-5 Sv causes epilation or hair loss, hemorrhage and will cause death in many cases. More than 3 Sv will lead to LD 50/30 or death in 50% of cases within 30 days, and over 6 Sv survival is unlikely.

So it seems like the concrete containment structure exploded, light water reactors can't explode right? Nuclear engineer care to speculate?

>>2685649
A Sievert is a unit of measure of radiation, NOT cantamination, so when they say that ~1000mSv were released, if you don't live within a few miles of the plant, it means absolutely nothing to you. Radiation travels in a straight line until it is absorbed by something, IE shielding of some kind, neutron/gamma radiation will interact with air given enough distance.
You can solve for your dose from this accident using the equation DR(you)=DR(1000mSv)x10^-n where n is the shielding applied, if you live around the curve of the earth, n approaches infinite. Then something amazing happened, and now I can talk to animals.

>>2685669
The natural risk of developing a fatal cancer is 33%. A person receiving a dose of 1.015 Sv (assuming effective dose here) will have around a 38% chance of developing a fatal cancer. Also, this is assuming a cancer fatality probability of ~0.05/Sv (ICRP-60). Of course, a person being exposed to enough radiation to receive that large of a dose actually happening is slim, though.

>>2685643
wasn't the reactor or any of the containment buildings, looked like a byproduct of some small fire or something.

"oh shit, captain, the rec room building just exploded"
"....and?"

>>2685705

Not anything certified or anything, but from what I've gathered it was a hydrogen explosion. Gas build up while trying to aid with cooling. The explosion removed the entire outer rein enforced steel structure housing the reactor.

There is no fucking way that it was just '4 people injured'. They're just trying to cover up that they've got a serious fucking situation on their hands.

No steel structure? No radiation shielding. It's free to enter the atmosphere and go with the winds.

I feel like the meteorologist on CNN is bull shitting to make filler

The incident is still level 3 or four. Three mile island was level 5. Chernobyl was level 7.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Nuclear_Event_Scale

>>2685728
At least he has fun graphics to play with.

>>2685699
It's worth mentioning that effects depend entirely on the time period over which a person receives the dose. If I were to receive a 5 Sv whole body dose over a twenty year period, I'd probably be fine, albeit with an elevated risk of developing a fatal cancer. If I were to receive that same whole body dose in twenty seconds...well, shit would be getting real.

>>2685649
the normal dose is around 2.4 mSv a year. It means standing in the plant is probably not a good idea at the moment.

>>2685721
that wasn't the containment building.
look at the explosion. you would see massive fucking chunks of steel and concrete flying everywhere

* March 11-12, 2011 - INES Level 5 or higher, Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant, Japan - Possible nuclear meltdown

After the 2011 Sendai earthquake and tsunami of March 11th, the emergency power supply of the Fukushima nuclear power plant failed. Deliberate releases of radioactive gas from reactors 1 and 2 to relieve pressure. Possible meltdown and steam explosion in reactor 1. Events are currently developing. A building raises white smoke and explodes, and outer wall disappears.

>>2685721
An explosion of hydrogen gas would've done shit all to the containment vessel.

You could fly a 737 into the containment vessel and not even dent it. In fact, here's a video of an F4 Phantom being smashed into a reactor containment wall at 800km/h.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7eI4vvlupY

>>2685763
you're not quite grasping the pressure issue. Pressure in the vessel was over twice operational pressure before the explosion.

>>2685762

Please provide a source.

>>2685763
that was the funniest fucking shit i've seen all day
i LOL'D HARD AS FUCK.

seriously where'd the plane go

>>2685762
ok, shit got real.

>>2685721

Yeah seems like the Jappos won't admit to it.

>>2685762

>nothing like Chernobyl!
>there will be no serious harm!

A fucking steam explosion, what the hell do you assholes think happened at Chernobyl? A fucking massive steam explosion threw a 2000-ton solid steel lid 20-meters in the air.

The fires were just a by-product of the burning graphite.

They're saying about how when the reaction is turned off there is nothing it can do but decay. Isn't the whole point of a meltdown when there's not enough cooling and you get a runaway reaction?

>>2685699
>>2685746

For additional comparison, Louis Slotin got 21 Sv in a few seconds while doing something ALPHA AS FUCK involving a SCREWDRIVER and PLUTONIUM, and died horribly nine days later. His last words were "I told u I was hardcore."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Slotin

>>2685776

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_civilian_nuclear_accidents

2010+

Oh here we go...

Sensationalism for 7 days straight


3...2...

>>2685773
i don't think you're comprehending how "oh-shit" preventative the containment buildings are

you could have a full on steam explosion in there and all it would do is shake some birds off the roof.

>>2685785
the reaction produces isotopes that have short half lives- 12 or 13 hours- and even when the energy generation has been completely stopped the isotopes still remain. There's no way of stopping the reaction quickly even if you still have containment.

>>2685785
No such thing as a "runaway reaction" in an inherently stable pressurized water reactor, the hotter a PWR gets, the less reactive it becomes. Chernobyl was an unstable design to begin with, it became more reactive the hotter it got.

http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/woalert_read.php?edis=NC-20110311-29877-JPN

>>2685780
>i LOL'D HARD AS FUCK.
Me too.

>seriously where'd the plane go
Faggot got creamed.

>>2685773
>>2685763

Remember that the stronger the pressure vessel is, the more catastrophic an explosion will be.

It won't explode unless venting is stopped. If venting is stopped then you have a fuckhuge problem.

>>2685794
probably worse nuclear event since chernobyl
>sensationalism

>>2685763
>>2685780
i like how the wall didn't even buckle, and it only moved back like 10 feet, maybe

American safety standards, everyone.

>>2685796
Pressure is oh shit strong in large structures. You could have a full on steam explosion in there and rip the building apart with massive steel pieces of the container, requiring a 25 mile exclusion zone for decades and contributing to the decline of the soviet union

>>2685773
Er... Sorry, I had assumed the explosion was on the outside of the containment vessel. Do you have any citation or proof that the containment vessel itself exploded?

>>2685806
Date / time [UTC]: 11/03/2011 - 12:38:52
awaiting update.

>comparing a modern day, state of the art reactor facility to a prime example of corner cutting, cost shrinking soviet engineering from over 20 years ago

I'm not saying that fears of radioactive contamination aren't unfounded, but comparing this situation to Chernobyl is just plain dumb and not the least logical.

>>2685773
Latest report says pressure was 555 kPa, which is only about 1.4 times normal level. They've done stress to death tests of these container vessels which show they should be able to handle up to 2.5 times without leaking. And that's just steam leaking, no explosion. If the buildup is gradual then there won't even be an explosion, it will just start leaking more and more until steam is escaping quicker than it is generated. At that point it's physically impossible for pressure to grow anymore.

>>2685814
oh god damnit
i hate the media

Guys, guys, GUYS! Quit making conclusions of little to no evidence. There was a big explosion. The plant was already leaking radioactive material and the fuel rods were not being properly cooled. That is what we know.

Le'ts put our heads together and scrounge some more information from the tubes of the internet. First off, when did the explosion occur?

>>2685832
thousands of people died from cancer due to the chernobyl fallouts because the media under-evaluated the event.
i personally prefer sensationalism.

>Officials have confirmed that an explosion has occurred at the nuclear plant,[35] as Tokyo fire department sends a special nuclear rescue team to Fukushima.[36]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_I_Nuclear_Power_Plant

>>2685773

>implying the factor of safety is only 2

I'm paying really close attention to this event and these discussions are great...but I want more citation! There is so much controversy that is about to be arising around all of this, I want to make sure there is straight talk among us science nerds.

>>2685814
That's technically true, because since Chernobyl there hasn't been a major nuclear disaster.

WOW ok let me clear things up a bit.

There is going to be no nuclear meltdown.

If there is, then it was most certainly done for the lulz. duh

>>2685838

About 1:20 ago was when the first videos of it ripped from live TV in Japan made it on youtube/4chan.

Images of the shredded structure started appearing about 1:00 ago.

>>2685839
Citation?

Do you have a list of names of those thousands of people?

Earlier in the thread it was apparently millions.

>>2685788
Haha, oh yes. That incident was mentioned in my reactor physics 1 class. He was indeed alpha as fuck.

>>2685851
where are the images of the structure?

Is it possible the earthquake weakened the containment structure making the pressure required for explosion lower?

Correction: 1 MICRO Sv/hr is being released.

Source: Fuji TV

Steam is invisible, therefore the explosion could not possibly have been just steam. I was probably controlled demolition, due to Occam's Razor.

INTELLECTUAL CHECKMATE

>>2685816
dude, 4 foot thick steel reinforcement on all sides.
they're DESIGNED to take a huge steam or pressure explosion

the fact it can take an airplane in the face is JUST A BONUS FEATURE

>>2685877
dawg, look at>>2685859

>>2685842
>>2685773
Plant X decides they want component Y to operate normally at 1000psig, plant X understands that pressures naturally fluctuate, they want a 500psig operational margin and 500psig safety margin, plant X contact a refinery/shop/company/whatever with the specs for part Y, r/s/c/w builds the component with an extra 500 psig safety margin so they can be sure that component Y will hold pressure at the specified setpoint. Long story short, part Y can now hold 1500psig more than is required by its normal operation pressure.

Please stop whining about Chernobyl and your lame political agendas.

The way I see it, it seems unlikely the primary cycle could have exploded this long after scramming the reactor. More likely is the melted fuel breached containment and blew up something outside the containment vessel? What was that? Why apply hydrogen cooling at this stage when the explosive hazards seem to far outweigh the benefits?

>>2685877

Well, its a good thing it didn't just BLOW APART LIKE A FUCKING PAPER BOX ON A RAINY DAY

>>2685494
>>2685494
>>2685494
>>2685494

^RESULTS IN THISv

>>2685859
>>2685859
>>2685859
>>2685859

>>2685882
that isnt the containment vessel...
its below that

>>2685838
they ARE being properly cooled, just less than they would like

the only worrying thing right now was that explosion, but it wasn't at the containment building, since there weren't enormous pieces of concrete flying away from it.

so, what building was it?

So guys. A few questions:

1) How long will those rods take to cool down?
2) What will tip this thing into critical mass?
3) Is it a risk that there will be several more of these hydrogen explosions?

Thousands of people have been ordered to evacuate the area within a 10-km radius of the plant. BBC correspondent Nick Ravenscroft said police stopped him 60km from the Fukushima 1 plant.

>>2685852
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster_effects#Long-term_health_effects
there have been several studies from different source affirming that....

>>2685900
they DO NOT have enough material in each rod to reach critical mass
that is how they are designed.

>>2685900
>2) What will tip this thing into critical mass?

nothing?

>Evacuation area confirmed to be raised to 20km

They're trying to keep it quiet, guaren-fucking-tee it.

Analysts say a meltdown would not necessarily lead to a major disaster because light-water reactors would not explode even if they overheated.

But Walt Patterson, of the London research institute Chatham House, said "this is starting to look a lot like Chernobyl".

He said it was too early to tell if the explosion's aftermath would result in the same extreme level of radioactive contamination that occurred at Chernobyl.

>>2685839
Dude, if you look at the fucking statistics, the incidence of fatal cancer for the affected populations was roughly 3% higher than the "background" cancer rate, as it were. You can be as adamant as you want with your "thousands died" tirade, but put it in some context - there were likely hundreds of thousands exposed to some form of "contamination." And of course, you have to question the validity of any claim involving the effects due to statistical fluctuations, natural tendency for certain groups to develop specifically more fatal cancers at a higher rate, and the difficulty in even determining the number of people affected.

TL;DR: you're a sensationalist cunt

ICRP-60 is bs, we know it's not linear until high dosages. in other words small amounts of radiations usually never show increased cancer risk, sometimes lower actually. only when you get to the real fucking serious shit does it mean anything bad, and we're nowhere near that. even if the worst case (fuel melting down) we won't.

>>2685900
>2) What will tip this thing into critical mass?
Nothing you retard. There is not and cannot be a runaway nuclear-bomb like explosion.

Meltdown != explosion

It's like 9/11 all over again! D:

>>2685910
>But Walt Patterson, of the London research institute Chatham House, said "this is starting to look a lot like Chernobyl".

That's fucking ridiculous and incredibly irresponsible to say

>>2685859
Anyone know what building I'm looking at in that picture?

>>2685926
not actually sure. i'm not familiar with the layout of fukushima
might be one of the steam turbine buildings?

>>2685926
>>2685930
this is what i would guess

>>2685926

dunno, probably not the containment structure though

>>2685924
only when the fucking nuclear plant EXPLODES
mouran

>>2685926

Picture 1: Reactor 1 reinforced steel housing.
Picture 2: Reactor 1 steel housing structure frame.
Picture 3: Reactor 1 steel housing structure frame.

>>2685906

Thank you for a simple answer to number 2.

So, supplementing, what will it take to reach the risk of meltdown? Also, the answers to 1 and 3 would be good from someone.

can anyone pull up a labeled blueprint of the fukushima facility? i'm actually curious what blew up now.

>>2685926

>Reuters is also reporting that NHK claims the explosion blew the entire outer structure off of the containment building of Unit 1.

I'd guess that's just an outer building and the containment structure is a smaller concrete thing inside that.

it was a hydrogen explosion
the officials are still unclear about the situation and gave no confirmation.
just go watch nhk ffs.

wikipedia
> Reuters is also reporting that NHK claims the explosion blew the entire outer structure off of the containment building of Unit 1.[31]

>>2685911
a few hundred have died from chernobyl, long term damages are insanely exaggerated (see the OH NOES CHILDREN WITH DEFORMITIES bullcrap in eastern europe)

>>2685948
i am doubting this so god damn hard

Russia Today discussing how Fukushima is looking more like Chernobyl.

>I bet russians would know much better how this shit happens and how government tries to shush anyone "to avoid panic"

>>2685951
once again, its being skewed by the media

outer structure, all it is is the walls of the building surround the reactor containment and in no way effects the structural integrity of the reactor containment.

So what exactly does happen if there is a nuclear meltdown? What causes the pressure inside of the containment?

The cooling doesn't work and the fuel rods overheat causing the water that is used for energy production to evaporate or something like that? Is there some coolant evaporating too?

Not sure how those reactors are constructed. I only know that there is a containment.

>"This is starting to look a lot like Chernobyl. [...] The nuclear agency says that they have detected caesium and iodine outside the unit, which certainly indicates fuel melting at the very least. Once you have melting fuel coming into contact with water, that would almost certainly be the cause of the explosion." – Walt Patterson, an associate fellow with Chatham House

>>2685939
we're over that already. it'd take temperatures over 1000 degrees C. ain't happening as they don't use fucking graphite.
it's all good, worst case they have a bad cleanup and big monetary loss, no one outside the area will be affected, and seeing as a 10km area is evacuated no one there will be either.

>>2685939
1. The fuel rods will be hot until they're cooled externally or until the material spreads out enough to cool on its own. As for how long they will POTENTIALLY be dangerous, google "half life of uranium"

3. Fukushima I has 2 more recently operational reactors. Fukushima II has 4 reactors. No telling how they're doing as of yet.

>>2685955
>I bet russians would know much better how this shit happens and how government tries to shush anyone "to avoid panic"

...only we already know far more than the russian government admitted for a long time after...

Can anyone explain me what is a meltdown? I already read wikipedia but shit's too deep.

>>2685912
Assuming you were referencing my post since you explicitly mention ICRP-60. While it's true that it's not linear until high doses, a conservative estimate is still valid, and that's what a linear extrapolation is. I've seen the studies you're referring to. Maybe it's good, maybe it's bad - but it's better to err on the side of bad until proven conclusively otherwise, ya dig? Also, I'm well aware of the implications tied to the severity, I was simply responding to the dude who provided a number with a reasonable estimate. Now, let's fuck.

>>2685944

Couple hours in photoshop.

>>2685962

...only Chernobyl had no containment, a fucking massive steam explosion and a huge fire that spread radioactive material everywhere.

No, this doesn't really look like Chernobyl.

>>2685964

So basically, the rods can't physically get hot enough to trigger meltdown? Or it is very unlikely that they will do so?

>>2685986
they are physically incapable of getting that hot. they're designed not to

>>2685976
>wats meltdown
Shit gets hot and melts.

>>2685980
So, is that structure cosmetic or does it do something?

>>2685981
>only Chernobyl had no containment
what exactly tells you that the containment structure didn't blow out?

>>2685981

not to mention the incredible derp among both the plant operators who caused it and the soviet responce

>>2685995
blind faith in a very rudimentary understanding of nuclear engineering.

>>2685991

This is an old reactor, it doesn't have that technology!

>>2685995
>what exactly tells you that the containment structure didn't blow out?

I dunno, I'm not right there, am I?

But I doubt it. I suspect that would have been a much more dramatic explosion.

>"If nuclear fuel rods overheat and then come into contact with water, this produces a large amount of highly-flammable hydrogen gas which can then ignite"

It's a good thing there wasn't like a Tsunami recently.

>>2685992
then how is it a threat to us?

>>2685994
cosmetic

>>2685977
yeahr, sorry for not linking it I'm lazy.
just saying, even up to ~1Sv isn't anything to get very upset about unless you're planning on sticking around.

on to the fucking.

>>2686002
well, even experts on TV are doubtful ....wait and see.
califags, prepare your thyroids.

>>2686006
except they have machines that recombine the hydrogen and oxygen into water just for that situation.

>>2685991
>>2686003

Citation peeps. I'm concerned with the real risk of meltdown at Fukushima. Can those rods still trigger meltdown or not?

>Japanese authorities are extending the evacuation zone around the two Fukushima nuclear plants from 10km to 20km.

>>2686005
because it'd pretty much take a nuke to take it out as that's what they're built to withstand.

Natural disasters are NOT science.

Saged, reported.

>>2686009

Cosmetic? Are you fucking retarded? (sorry, redundant question, you are a trip faggot)

It is a STEEL-REINFORCED 3-FOOT THICK WALL AND ROOF STRUCTURE DESIGNED TO CONTAIN RADIATION IN THE EVENT OF A CATASTROPHIC FAILURE OF THE CONTAINMENT VESSEL OF THE ACTIVE RODS.

It was torn apart like wet paper.

What does that tell you?

>>2686013
The "experts" on TV have all so far been a bunch of fearmongering faggots who keep being "unsure" about how this is "just like Chernobyl".

May as well have fucking actors on there. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if they really are just actors. State of "news" television these days...

>>2686005
hydrogen exploded at three mile island and the reactor containment did not breach

>>2686023
seismology, faggot

>>2686019
> sensationalism

My guess is that if the explosion were strong enough to rip through the inner containment vessel, there wouldn't be any structural frame still standing.

>>2686018
stop being concerned then, it can't happen

>>2686023
No but a disaster at a Nuclear Power Plant as a result of it is, I hope any Fallout hits only you faggot.

>>2686006

>>2686024
it houses the steam turbines
it is not the reactor containment...

>>2685980

> A BWR's containment consists of a drywell where the reactor and associated cooling equipment is located and a wetwell. The drywell is much smaller than a PWR containment and plays a larger role. During the theoretical leakage design basis accident the reactor coolant flashes to steam in the drywell, pressurizing it rapidly. Vent pipes or tubes from the drywell direct the steam below the water level maintained in the wetwell (also known as a torus or suppression pool), condensing the steam, limiting the pressure ultimately reached. Both the drywell and the wetwell are enclosed by a secondary containment building, maintained at a slight sub-atmospheric or negative pressure during normal operation and refueling operations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Containment_building

(Just putting this out there so we have a better idea of what we're looking at.)

>>2686024
no no, the big building isn't the containment thing, it's just a pretty outer shell
the actual containment building is inside that, much smaller

>>2686024
>What does that tell you?
MADE IN CHINA

>>2685851
1:20 what? Japan's time zone?

>>2686024
tells you shit blew up.
thing is, the containment for the actual reactor is inside there, and it isn't gonna blow up unless someone decides to nuke japan again.

>>2686023
I know this is trolling but it's worthy of mention that this is no longer a natural disaster. What the tsunami did was cut off offsite power to the nuclear plant. Everything that has followed has been homegrown and essentially similar to what happened in the Three Mile Island coolant loss accident.

>>2686031

I was thinking that as well

>>2686038
it's not cosmetic, it's for containing radiation leaks. however no it's not the main containment.

ok so basically the nuclear fuel, U-238, in in the form a small pellets. These pellets are put into a zirconium cladding, sort of a metal case. These 'fuel rods' are then put into an array and put into the reactor. In a PWR (pressurized water reactor) the fuel it covered with water which circulates from this reactor core (where the fuel is) to the steam generators, and back. The water is kept pressurized to 2250psi so that it won't boil in bulk. This is accomplished by using a 'pressurizer' which is nothing more than a small head tank of steam. Anyway, the water that circulates from the core to the steam generators and back is called "RCS" or "primary water". RCS absorbs the heat of fusion and transfers it to the steam generators, thus keeping the fuel relatively cool.
A meltdown happens when the RCS is no longer able to remove heat from the core and the fuel begins to melt.
Good enough?

don't worry kids, duck and cover.

http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/woalert_read.php?edis=NC-20110311-29877-JPN

>an hour ago was a 1/5
>now 4/5

You fags sure are trying to play this down.

>>2686050
what will happen if fuels melt?
how will it affect a weeaboo as far as 3km?

In other news, wind and solar plants continue to operate without irradiating anyone or killing the planet.

Wake up people, the sun emits more energy in a nanosecond than humanity uses in a year, how hard is it to see that solar is the way forwards? It's just been loocked up by big corporations desperate to keep there finger on the people with dirty power plants they control.

>>2686064
>implying you can absorb all the sun's power

>>2686059
oh, i see it has been updated.
nuclear whores sure are getting told.
fucking DUCK AND COVER .

>>2686064
>HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
RR

the worst part is faggots like this are actually going to be taken seriously after all this is cleaned up and nobody is even injured.

i don't want to live on this planet anymore

>>2686061
It's quite possible there will be an infestation of futa and/or tentacle dick monsters in the surrounding area for years to come.

>If the roof is blown off the mass amount of water to cool the reactor will instantly evaporate.

The media keeps having dubious "experts" on because all the real nukes are at home sleeping comfortably.

>>2686047
>What the tsunami did was cut off offsite power to the nuclear plant.

It also destroyed the diesel generators at the plant. But I'm not sure the distinction between natural/artificial disaster is very meaningful anyway.

>>2686066
It's called a SOLAR PANEL you moron. Is a billion dollar corporation cutting you a paycheck for undermining the one safe form of power?

>>2685657
>>2685494
>>2685980
We are certainly not talking about that shit enough
So, the white structure is most likely just some sort of steel/metal construction, intended to protect the reactor containment from the weather, etc
So, the question i have, how the fuck does a hydrogen explosion happen OUTSIDE the containment
Does anybody have any idea how those reactors are build exactly (ie, those on site)

>>2686064
no, solar has been locked up by physical limitations of materials we are using. shit's actually a really tough problem.

>>2686061
We don't know how the meltdown is happening currently and how much of it is being contained by the vessel. Speculation on the wider effects is pointless until we know what the current state of the core is. If the containment is wide open, could be half to three fourths Chernobyl (minus the fire that happened there). If it's still sealed, could be nothing.

>>2686064
get out

>>2686059
Wow this really is getting serious guys

Serious damage to reactor container at nuclear plant unlikely - Kyodo quoting Japan nuclear safety agency

Reuters

There, now shut the fuck up paranoids.

>>2686064

>the sun emits more energy in a nanosecond than humanity uses in a year, how hard is it to see that solar is the way forwards?

You realize you can replace 'solar' with 'nuclear' and actually be more accurate? Probs not.

>>2686064
>big corporations
>implying that the "big corporations" couldn't just as easily begin producing power using said methods of "clean energy" if not for things like inefficiency, and unreliablitiy with current "green" technologies

you can bet your sweet ass that as soon as solar energy collection becomes more reliable and cost efficient that the big power producers are going to corner the market like drunk pussy on prom night.

HD VIDEO EXCLUSIVE PICTURES

>>2686064

> the sun

Yeah, fuck nuclear power. Let's just use the big thermonuclear furnace in the sky that we have only very inefficient means of harnessing.

Time to find some gullible hot girls and tell them the world is going to end.

>>2686085
Well, I hope so but one quote isn't super reassuring given there is very obviously and severe superficial damage to the containment structure and unknown non-superficial damage.

>>2686078
Effectivity of a solar panel is much lower than a nuclear plant's.

>>2686092
I've got a plan...

>>2686075
>> What the tsunami did was cut off offsite power to the nuclear plant.
> It also destroyed the diesel generators at the plant.

By "offsite power" I meant power other than the reactor's own power. The point is, all it took to cause this was the electricity being cut. The only reactor designs proof against this are the completely self-cooling ones like pebble bed.

HD VIDEO EXCLUSIVE PICTURES   

How hard can it be to get some portable power generators connected to the plant?

>>2686094

Uh... NHK is stating that the pressure has successfully been released. There more than one source.

Also, that box was not the main containment.

>>2686101
What are those buildings? It definitely looks like one of those buildings exploded from the inside.

GORZIRRA

They're evacuating everyone in at least a 60km radius.

>>2686093
oh fuck i didn't think of this
feels good to know jack shit is going to happen aint it?

>>2686108

There's a shockwave. Watch the video.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12720219

>>2686079

see:

>>2686037

The kind of reactor is a BWR: boiling water reactor. They aren't all constructed exactly the same way, but just remember that it's not the same as pressurized water reactors.

I'm still looking for pictures or diagrams of actual buildings like this.

>>2686116
What about the shockwave?

>>2686104
err, they already have, it's going fine

>>2686121

It's huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge

>shockwave
>we still don't think it's a big fucking explosion

Enjoy the denial, cancerfags.

>>2686093

lol cancerfags

It was one of these buildings that blew up.

>>2686133

Come on, the first pictures were really inconclusive.

>>2686133
err, we never said it wasn't an explosion, we said it was an explosion of the superficial outer building around the reactor, I.E the pretty shell which keeps the workers dry in the rain

"It is obviously an hydrogen explosion ... due to hydrogen igniting ...If the hydrogen has ignited, then it is gone, it doesn't pose any further threat,"

>>2686150
>>Superficial

lol

It's not meant to fucking explode like that. All of the equipment to keep it cool is inside that and now it's probably fucked.

>>2686148

That building serves the same function (though for a different kind of reactior) but it's a different plant on the other side of Japan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihama_Nuclear_Power_Plant

The one with the crisis is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_I_Nuclear_Power_Plant

>>2686160
not really.
and even if everything fails and the water boils off the fuel rods and it melts down......
nothing happens. the core just melts into the ground and they just quarantine the area for a few years.

>>2686166

Radioactive sushi

>>2686166
> nothing happens

ARE WE OR ARE WE NOT ALL GOING TO DIE?

New update:
http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/woalert_read.php?edis=NC-20110311-29877-JPN

>>2686198

Eventually

>2nd reactor is at danger level. Evacuation area near 2nd reactor is 10 km now.
>Live from Russia Today (this fucking moment, although info was released 1 hour ago in Japan)
>the level of radiation near 1st plant is 1000 times higher than normal

Some interesting perspective:

http://atomicinsights.blogspot.com/2011/03/nuclear-plant-issues-in-japan-are-least.html

>>2686218
>Radioactivity at the plant was 20 times over the normal level

>>2686198
>ARE WE OR ARE WE NOT ALL GOING TO DIE?

Well we're not immortal, if that's what you mean.

>>2686218

"Radioactivity at the plant was 20 times over the normal level, and Japan's Nuclear Safety Commission has said it may be experiencing meltdown."

http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/woalert_read.php?edis=NC-20110311-29877-JPN


The 1000 times estimate is an estimate for inside the containment chamber.

>>2686237
20 times background isn't actually that bad

>>2686225
>My thoughts and prayers are with all of the people who are..
>thoughts and prayers
>prayers
Stopped reading right there

>>2686247

shouldn't have. It's just an expression. He goes on to explain why everything else going on is much more dangerous than this plant's situation.

>>2686225

That's actually very well written, a nice reminder that while the reactor thing may be the most exciting think to watch on the news, it's hardly the biggest problem for most people in Japan right now.

>>2686247
You do realize that it's more of a saying than anything, right?

Hell, I loved the early days where science just started to edge out god in the US, but then the fucking 70's happened.

>>2686225
>Watch the below at your own risk - it is designed to scare you and to provide the same kind of entertainment that some pay for when they watch badly scripted disaster movies.

oh lol
he's completely right

"Situation Update No. 9
On 12.03.2011 at 10:54 GMT+2

An explosion destroyed the roof and walls of Japan's quake-hit Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant, and people nearby are being warned to stay indoors. Radioactivity at the plant was 20 times over the normal level, and Japan's Nuclear Safety Commission earlier said it may be experiencing meltdown. Several workers were reported to be injured in the explosion -- one seriously -- and smoke was seen billowing out of the plant. Eyewitnesses reported strong shaking at the plant shortly before the blast. "A seriously injured worker is still trapped in the crane operating console of the exhaust stack and his breathing and pulse cannot be confirmed. Currently, rescue efforts are under way," nuclear company TEPCO said in a statement. About 45,000 people who live within six miles (10 kilometers) of the No. 1 plant were told to evacuate Saturday. Parts of the reactor's nuclear fuel rods were briefly exposed to the air after cooling water levels dropped through evaporation, and efforts were earlier being made to pump water into the reactor at the site, which is 160 miles (250 kilometers) northeast of Tokyo. Radioactivity at the plant was 20 times over the normal level, and Japan's Nuclear Safety Commission has said it may be experiencing meltdown."

> dude's first priority during a nuclear disaster is tweet about how nobody died at Windscale or TMI
> "perspective"

obvious agenda is obvious?

>>2686225
People need to read this if they are not intimately familiar with how nuclear power plants work.

In any case, the people working at Fukushima right now, ALPHA AS FUCK.

>>2686270 while the reactor thing may be the most exciting

Yes, exactly.

>>2686303

care to expand your thoughts on why this is a 'disaster?' His point is that relative to everything else Japan is dealing with right now, this is trivial in terms of loss of life and danger to the health of the people.

>>2686299
>"A seriously injured worker is still trapped in the crane operating console of the exhaust stack and his breathing and pulse cannot be confirmed."
Two things
1. He's been stuck up there since long before the explosion
2. He's stuck at Fukushima II (4 reactors), which is located a dozen kilometers south from the troublesome reactor at Fukushima I (6 reactors). Your source is confused and doesn't realize these are two separate sites.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Edano says no large amount of radiation leakage is expected.

Edano says no explosion at nuclear reactor container at Fukushima plant.

He also says that data shows amount of radiation levels decreased after the explosion, and that the amount of radiation is staying at a low level.

-- http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2

>>2686356
Are you the same dude who above said "nothing happens" if a core meltdown breaches containment, ie. "nothing happened" at Chernobyl and Three Mile Island? If so, please consult the INES scale for what a nuclear disaster is and bring yourself up to speed.

The people who died in the quake have already died. A poorly managed meltdown at Fukushima (say, fissiles washing into the ocean next door) has the potential to kill a whole slew of more people and cause major damage to the Japanese marine economy and ecosystem. This would be a "disaster". Whether or not this happens is also "exciting". Pretending to care so much about the other effects (car batteries are in the water, gasp!) that we should pay no mind to this nuclear inconvenience is "concern trolling".

>>2686394

As far as people living in the adjacent area are concerned, nothing happened at TMI. It fucked some shit up, it cost a ton of money, but there was no loss of life or damage to property outside the plant. If we're looking at a similar situation here I'd say that's not such a big deal compared to over a thousand dead.

And yes, minor leakage of radioactive material isn't nearly the sort scale of pollution as a burning oil refinery.

>>2686394

The area around Chernobyl is a thriving wildlife reserve and nature park. Based on this evidence, we have nothing to worry about.

>>2686394

>Are you the same dude

no.

>A poorly managed meltdown at Fukushima

There was no meltdown. Only a shitload of people with little knowledge of how reactors work comparing this incident to Chernobyl, and assuming there was a meltdown.

>The people who died in the quake have already died.

There are plenty of people still stranded, as we speak, in need of help.

The battery example was an attempt to put in perspective the danger of radioactivity compared to other environmental effects. The doses leaking are as dangerous as a leaking car battery (gasp!). People are being sensationalist about this.

>>2686442

Correction: Partial meltdown in the inner core. No exposed meltdown like Chernobyl.

>>2686442
The fuel rods were damaged and possibly melted on their own, but to the best of my knowledge it didn't go through the vessel, so that's why people are throwing around the term meltdown.

>>2686416
>And yes, minor leakage of radioactive material isn't nearly the sort scale of pollution as a burning oil refinery.

This needs to be talked about a lot more. For Christ's sake, the radiation from the partial meltdown at TMI is nothing compared to the weekly radiation in the same state from the fucking natural gas drilling's wastewater that they're just dumping into the rivers.

>>2686383

>>2686503

Let's distrust everyone who might actually be informed about the situation, that sounds like a great idea!

The world is ending omg, it's a conspiracy, look u can SEE the thermite, wake up sheeple, WTC7

>>2686442
> There was no meltdown
> also that nuke activist writing that no one received lethal radiation doses

Okay; let's see! There is no confirmation about this stuff one way or another. You may be right: you may also be as wrong as all the dudes upthread who said the pressure was successfully released and there is no explosion.

> There are plenty of people still stranded, as we speak, in need of help.

And you are helping... by posting on the internet about how nuclear disasters don't exist and how everyone who disagrees is sensationalist?

It's certainly necessary to put the effects of this and every other disaster into proper perspective! In 100 years we'll all be dead anyway and none of this will matter. What's not necessary is pretend the nuclear accident angle is immaterial because your politics dictate nuclear power is risk free. The atomicinsights guy is pretty clearly doing the latter, not the former. That's fine - there are also lots of anti-nuclear retards crowing about how this is gonna end the world - but it's not "insightful" or "perspective".

>>2686503
The reactor container itself did not explode, he did confirm that there was an explosion at the plant and even commented on how radioactivity declined after the explosion.

>there is no explosion.
They're saying that the reactor vessel didn't explode, not that there was no explosion at all at the plant.

Power plants are fucking huge and have lots of bits that can explode. if it was the turbine house that exploded, it wouldn't affect the reactor directly. Hydrogen-cooled Turbines have exploded at non-nuclear plants as well

>>2686513

I'm trying to help reduce ignorance in regards to nuclear power. There is little I can do for anyone in Japan right now anyways.

>What's not necessary is pretend the nuclear accident angle is immaterial because your politics dictate nuclear power is risk free.

Nothing is risk free. The argument is that a nuclear reactor, something with a lot of potential to be dangerous, has just survived an earthquake and a tsunami with little incident, and consequently is safe enough to employ. Despite this, twitter is erupting with people who think this is Chernobyl 2.0, and that nuclear power will eradicate life on earth.

>>2686476
>partial meltdown in the core
gon' need a source on that, son.

not that it matters much, even if there was a melt down it's just going to sit inside the steel pot and cool off, big fucking whop.

that this was "little incident" is a pretty retarded argument

the REACTOR BUILDING had its walls blown off

it would need to be completely rebuilt to be brought back online, something i doubt will ever happen

>>2686535

Yeah, I'm not sure about what's going on in the core, though I don't know that anyone is, wouldn't want to take a peek inside right now.

>>2686540

Compared to everything else goin on over there it is. You see the refinery fire/explosion that happened early on, let alone the footage of the wave raping buildings?

Obviously it is a major incident. My point is that it is nothing like Chernobyl, and poses little danger to anyone except the plant workers.

>>2686540
It's not a "little incident", it also is NOT Chernobyl 2.0

>>2686553
> Obviously it is a major incident

>>2686535
I can't find a confirmation yet, just this post I made ealier >>2686478
The fuel rods are damaged, but there's no confirmation of melt down.

Even in that case, it would end up like TMI, when the radioactive fuel melts out of the container it would stop at one of the barriers.

>>2686555
It's going to be another TMI at best, and the explosion is not unique to nuclear facilities.

Doesn't matter, the Japanese are going to probably add more redundancies to their nuclear plants while the US freaks out and builds more coal plants and China builds a shitload of nukes, and they REALLY need to make sure they have their redundancies.

Two things: There's not going to be a major release of radiation. A Chernobyl is physically impossible, anyone who says otherwise is a troll or a fearmongering moron. Also, it really, really sucks that Fukushima-1 unit 1, the one causing all the trouble, was set to go offline THIS MONTH.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_BWRs