/sci/ - Science & Math

> Kids at the physics department always bash it.

This is something, I'm supposing you're an American, I'll never understood. Bashing other sciences? You're all there to learn about the world, you just have interests in different parts of it.

biology

>not science. Take your hipster classification elsewhere.

How i see it is Physics explains everything, then chemistry generalizes it then Biology SUPER generalizes it

like particles=elements=animals.

Considering the low quality of American education they have no right to bash anybody

>>2683162

>engineer detected

>>2683143

Math majors shit on physics majors shit in turn on chem majors.

It's the pecking order, and it's incredibly stupid.

I'm actually in the Canadian system

A lot of the students though are from The United States to access our cheaper schools.

I really don't have a problem with them hating on it, it's just the pretentiousness that comes with it that's annoying.

In the end I'll be making 6 figures while they at most will either be professors or doing research at 50K

I'm not mad.

>>2683175
Well since you're now in Med school you're top dog, but back in bio, you were at the bottom of the order.

>>2683188
>Medical students are top dog
Too bad many medical students are total morons

>>2683211
>Jelly of med school students

Protip OP
Don't listen to insecure neckbeards who think their special because they still have their virginity.

>>2683162
>analyzing DNA
>DNA being fucking molecules
>implying biology generalizes

>>2683143
Op, fuck em, you are in med school and they will never go anything as gross and cool as the shit you're about to get into. They are just aspie tards who don't want to get their flapping hands dirty and want science to be as clean and simple as their massive lego collection.

Also, bitches love to fuck doctors (don't marry, they just want your money). Notice how ugly hook nosed Jews always manage to get married 5 times and cheat on their wives constantly? Being "Doctor" Weinstein, the surgeon helps.

No one ever goes out of their way to fuck a lab tech or physics major. lulz.

Physics major here. I like the double blind trials, and the search for explanations in diagnostic medicine. I guess I'd criticize medicine (especially the kind centered on treatment) for downplaying the element of creativity that you'll often find in science and engineering.

Bio can feel a little hand-wavy, but it's ok in my book. The complexity of the stuff they study is scary, but also fascinating. For some reason I find it infinitely more interesting than chemistry, I have no idea why.

>>2683162

Emerging properties, faggot.

>>2683256

The thing about handwavieness is that it can vary.

for instance, we were talking about rearrangements in biological systems in my ochem class, calling it enzyme magic, but we go into detail about it in biochem.

now i want cheese pizza

>>2683282

Agreeing with this.

The problem with biology and biochemistry is that it's divided into these little compartments, and everything outside the subject is glossed over until you hit that subject matter.

That's really the only sane way to learn though; imagine being explained enzyme kinetics before learning that proteins are synthesized by ribosomes, or something. It wouldn't make much sense.

Physics major here. I personally can't stand studying bio/chem/biochem because of all the memorization, but I salute those of you who can manage it. I'll help you with your math homework, you work on inventing miracle drugs, and we'll all live long and happy lives.

Besides, all the science students have to team up and laugh at the comm majors together.

How hard was it to get into Medical school? I genuinely like Human Biology over all the other sciences, and that financial security is a nice bonus. My fallback would be pharmacy, but hot damn that better not be dispensing pills all day.

I'm still a senior in high school, planning for Life Sciences.

>>2683266

LOL "emerging properties"

More like "properties that are already inherent but weren't predicted by our particular system so we attempt a form of linguistic voodoo and call them 'emergent" as if it were a magic species of qualities"

Biology and Chemistry are subsets of physics but no physics simulation based on atomic/subatomic interactions is powerful enough to simulate a fucking twitching zygote.

And for the laughable notion of a GTOE, you'd have to create a DOUBLE of the universe to be precise in your calculations.

op, if i was as ambitious and had the grades to go to med school i would.

since i don't, i'm going to work on a masters in evolutionary bio instead.

>>2683663
I'm the complete opposite, I can't stand general mathematics and partly Physics because it's more open ended. I somehow do better with Chemistry and Biology because it's more specific, and memorizing (then understanding of course) comes naturally. Calculus is fine oddly enough.

Although this was probably more of a trauma from a bad teacher.
>teacher teaches directly from math textbook
>do practice test on textbook, woo this is easy
>suddenly the test is shit I've never seen in the textbook before

>>2683162
>generalizes it
I don't think you understand what "generalize" means.

We just think poorly of extroverted people in general
We just don't know why they're doing science

>>2683176

That is true. Though as a Chem major I feel I should say that I know very few chemistry students who shit on biology. Probably partially because chem is an extremely broad field and bashing most other physical and life science fields indirectly bashes the chemistry part of it they study.

>>2683164

That's true at the primary and secondary level. Our tertiary eduction is still pretty much on par with the rest of western world, though. Quality varies from school to school just as it does in most countries. However, the quality of our undergrads is rather problematic to that, as our students tend to be entitled little shits who expect A's and have to take large amounts of remedial classes because they didn't learn shit in high school.

>Caring about what /sci/ thinks
/sci/ likes quiet people who do moderately well for themselves. That's because /sci/ can feel superior to those people, even though most of /sci/ just posts on /sci/ to feel smart and will likely end up as low-level employees in pharmaceuticals.

In other words, fuck what /sci/ thinks.

>>2683176
Not really.

It's just about which subject is harder.

I have no problem with medfags.

>>2683749
You're in a hard science hating on other majors because of a subjective standard of difficulty? Lol full retard

>>2683158
Take your common sense and rational opinions elsewhere! They're not wanted here!

>>2683734
Like I said earlier
Extroverted people have no business in science and for some reason Biology makes an overwhelming majority of them
Science needs people who will read books alone and write equations in a dark underground lab without windows and ugly artificial light not a freaking party animals that only cares about texting and fagbook

>>2683164
In general, Americans are less educated than many other westernized nations. However, we still have some of the best schools in the world and produce more scientific papers than anyone else (though China is catching up)

>>2683757
It isn't really subjective. Most maths students could have done physics if they wanted to. The same could not be said of physics.

The same relationship exists with physics and chemistry.

I don't know any physical scientists who would dispute this, and I think biological majors, if they didn't agree, would side-step the question.

I mean even you are avoiding the question with clauses like "You're in a hard science hating on other majors "

doctors = ludicrously overpaid mechanics
even more faggoty than engineers

I'm a physics major and I just don't like biology much. It's that way for a lot of my classmates too. Some of them are pompus, but I think just a majorities of physics student don't like biology much. it's much the same way with other fields. Most track players don't like football, things like that. (though that's usually cause track never gets any of the budget) there some some natural fields of thought that are sort of opposites in a way.

>>2683920
>overpaid drug dealers

fix'd

>>2683143
>>I did a bachelors in Biomedical science and currently am In med school.

Wait, you did three years of biomedical science only to spend another 6+ years repeating what you just learned plus learning new stuff?

Why not just study medicine directly?

>>2683143
Physics department can suck balls.
Go save the world Dr :-)

>>2683863

>The same relationship exists with physics and chemistry.

I strongly dispute this. I know a ton of physics majors who can't do chemistry to save their lives. Which is terrible because they only have to go through gen chem.

That said, I do fine in physics. I do chemistry because I like it better and find it more interesting for whatever reason. You're also confusing the fact that physics majors use lazy math with the idea that they aren't capable of more rigorous math. That's completely untrue, but physicists use lazier math because it tends to simplify things models which maintaining good accuracy.

Each field has its own specific difficulties. You're just being pretentious. I've certainly heard these arguments before, but it doesn't make them any less wrong or make you any less of a twat for spreading the rumor.

>>2683863
I said that because I'd hope you'd have enough critical thinking to realize there's not objective difficulty and people have differing talents. Then again maybe that's your weak point.

>>2683863
>Most maths students could have done physics if they wanted to. The same could not be said of physics.

What? Most of the physics majors I know are math minors at least. It's true that physicists have a tendency to get sloppy with proofs and they're often satisfied with a first-term approximation for a rough "picture" of the system. But it's kind of weird to say that people with the talent to study, say, general relativity can't handle math.

>>2683957
>go spend your life handing out the latest drugs to fat assholes that can't be bothered to eat a vegetable or exercise.

fix'd

>>2683993
Oh please. Physics students don't do maths because they aren't good enough. I do not do physics because I'm not good enough.

Have you ever met any IMO finalists? They're basically superhuman. That variance in ability across the population doesn't exist in any other subject. If you took the top 0.1% of physics students for a particular age group, they'd be a lot better than merely those in the top 9-11% but not nearly as much better as the same comparison for mathetmatics.

It might not be apparent just from observing mediocre or quite good students of each subject though.

>>2684103
confirmed for troll. back off guys. it's a trap

>>2684020
All the maths students I know would be able to study physics with relative ease. I'd estimate only about 1/10 physics students would be able to study maths at the same university.

>>2684121
Really? Well I think you must have realise you don't have any reasonable argument to refute me. At least you aren't persisting in this tiresome charade anymore.

I love how this whole thread has basically turned into people bashing on physics majors.

If you can go and do another major, but they can't do yours, then you can bash it.

For example, I'm a maths/physics major. I'm happy to bash on commerce and arts majors. On the other hand, I wouldn't bash on law majors because I consider that hard work. Similarly for chem majors. Bio is a little different, but we've got the whole science unity thing going, so I don't beat up on them too much.

At my uni a lot of the maths guys bash on the physics guys because they tote some misguided notion that maths is the most pure, and therefore the only useful subject. It's funny because most of the physics students would have few problems doing a maths degree, but I doubt whether most of the maths majors could get anywhere near finishing 3rd year quantum physics or electromagnetism.

>>2684127

Have you studied any physics?

>>2684199
I did a year of mainly it and chemistry then became fully chemistry.

I gotta say, as a dual major - I find the math end of things a lot easier to grasp and progress in than I do in physics. Upper division physics gets pretty insane with problem solving. In math, I never am feeling like I'm stumbling around in the dark attacking a problem hoping to make headway, I almost always intuitively know where to start. With some of the more advanced physics stuff, I have to start doing work without even knowing if it will ultimately help me, and at some point in that process of different attempts, I will come upon the path I need.

I find math has much less potential for confusion and obscurity in problem solving. Physics gives me a challenge.

our society puts doctors on a pedestal and I don't know why

but what's really irritating is people putting med school students on a pedestal

it's like treating some fucker who just joined boot camp like he's highly decorated war hero

>>2684229

umm gee, do you think its because they put peoples lives in their own hands? derrp

>>2684229
>society puts doctors on a pedestal

fewer and fewer people are buying into that shit, more and more people are treating them like drug dealers

>>2684240
not all of them

and so what?

nurses and paramedics deal with life and death more regularly than most physicians, but no one respects them because they went to less college

and any kind of scientist or someone who has the same level of education is not revered nearly as much as doctors, what's up with that

>>2684245
>>2684229
>>2684217
>>2684176
>>2684140
>>2684127
Samefag troll. 0/10

>>2684255

granted, and they should get more respect.

But I have tons of respect for surgeons. It takes a special kind of person to operate on someone else.

>>2684255
Ya, cept it's not a nurses responsibility to diagnose and treat patients, and paramedics keep someone alive long enough for someone with real medical knowledge to treat them. Paramedic is a year and a half program. Nursing is about as bad. You can ignore it all day, but in the end it's mr or mrs MD that makes the big bucks, and for good reason.

--Did not read thread--

Physics people are just self-engorged assholes who are too self-absorbed to realize that math application does not in itself prove that you have the creativity and understanding to truly advance science. As a result, some of these elitist pricks consider deriving some second order differential equation (really, just applying Newton's law hint hint, acceleration is, by default, second order derivative---OH OMG I MUST BE A GENIUS) proves something more than the rest. The reality of the matter is that mindless mathematical manipulation does not teach, nor lead to science, and even more careful manipulation hardly lead to results without approximations and assumptions, much alike in the way other sciences are done.

At the end of the game, your average physics student does not really know much beyond some calculus and many different ways to do number chruncing (as they see it anyway, since that's the only thing that sets the field apart from the less mathematical sciences), but in absolute terms of understanding, and drawing deep connections with concepts, they don't fare better than any other scientist. In other words, whatever crap a physicist gives you, you can throw right back at them, for, at the end of the game, all he is really doing is just major cock waving and ego feeding--nothing to do with science.

And, inb4 butthurt physifaggots complain that I do not buy into self-praising business, I am a physics major--I have a pretty good idea what kind of people do this type of thing, and it's bullshit--it is totally up to the individual to make the most of his major, not the major to the individual.

I hope that helps OP.

>>2684224

Could not agree more.


>>2684217

If you have only done a year of physics you have no idea what it is like. First year physics is high school stuff. Wait until you get to third year stuff. Most maths students can't do that.

>>2684176
>I doubt whether most of the maths majors could get anywhere near finishing 3rd year quantum physics or electromagnetism.

>>2684271
>Ya, cept it's not a nurses responsibility to diagnose and treat patients,

yes it is their fucking responsiblity to treat patients you moron

the doctor spends as much time as he needs diagnosing the patient and everything else is in the nurses hands

my father is a surgeon. I spent quiet a lot of days with him at the hospital, doing rounds

when he wasn't at the operating table he was doing paperwork. the nurses do everything else

>>2684270
surgeons are low tier physicians

seriously, I'm not trolling

do you even realize how much knowledge it takes to diagnose and treat all sorts of complex diseases? some doctors have to know more about chemistry and shit than most chemistry majors

surgeons just have to know their anatomy and preform a specific task

>>2684285


>spends whole post bashing physics majors
>concludes post with -it is totally up to the individual to make the most of his major, not the major to the individual.
-

mfw

>>2683954
Either you don't live in America, or you don't understand how the medical school system works.

I'm just a freshman, but I find Calc II WAY FUCKING EASIER than Physics II (E&M).

I'm a dumbass and go to almost no lectures. I got a 98 on my last calculus exam and I just bombed my physics exam a few days ago, probably got like a 20 or something.

I actually will need to start going to lecture and study and put in work in Physics, while it's pretty much easy street in math.

>>2684294
this is the dumbest shit i have ever heard
>surgeons are low tier physicians

seriously you couldn't be any dumber if you were trying

surgeons do actual medicine, >99% physicians do nothing but hand out drugs to fat people

>>2684294
They treat based off the doctors orders. Dipshit.

>>2684286
Oh ho is that why advanced thereoretical physics courses normally get taught in maths departments rather than physics departments? At my university the 3rd and 4th year theroetical physics courses that are open to both physics and maths students such as quantum field theory come with a warning for physics students that the course is only suitable for students whose mathetmatics is VERY (it is actually in bold and underlined) strong.

>>2684321
>calc 2
>math
lol
Come back when you're not doing kiddy shit that even most business and chemistry majors would have to do.

>>2684321
lower division math is all brute force plug and chug, while physics requires modeling of a system

math is terribly easy at that level

>>2684340
yes they are you idiot

a pediatrician I know was talking about how she did simple surgical type stuff right at the start of her residency

surgery is easy compared to other kinds of medical shit

it's just that the more complicated surgeries require lots, and lots, and lots of practice

>>2684341
the point is that they are the one caring for the patient you moron

the doctor does nothing but look at charts and make a few decisions. they are not caretakers, which is why you said they should be so revered

fuck's sake /sci/ is everyone of you really this eager to suck doctor penises?

>>2684351

I doubt very much that the subject is open to maths students with no background in physics, unless of course, the subject is just the mathematics behind quantum field theory.

I could learn as much as I like about abstract vector spaces, but that doesn't mean I know shit about quantum mechanics.

Shut the fuck up all of you. Why can't you all just calm the fuck down and realize each of these professions is vital and a person is no better than another for having chosen A over B. If it contributes to human well being and they enjoy it then I see no problem here.

bump

doesn't anyone else who knows jack shit about surgery want to tell me why surgeons are the only smart physicians

despite the fact that all they do is use their hands to fix people up

not too much thinking involved in being a surgeon. fuck's sake they don't even make diagnoses

>>2684426
pediatricians and pathologists are among the smartest physicians

they have to work with a very broad range of diseases and problems

and their patients can't describe their symptoms to them

it's like detective work. they have to examine extremely vast amounts of information to determine the culprit

>>2684380
Well if you don't believe me.
http://www.maths.cam.ac.uk/postgrad/mathiii/descriptions.pdf
These are the subjects available to 4th year maths students.
http://www.phy.cam.ac.uk/teaching/teachingfiles/Handbook.pdf#PartIIIETP
These are the courses available to the 4th year physics students.

Of note are the facts that both quantum field theory courses are taught in the mathetmatics department , and both come with a warning to physics stuents taht they require a high level of mathematical ability, and that a widerrange of option relating to advanced topics in theoretical physics are available to 4th year maths students than 4th year physics students.

>>2683686
No one here can tell you that, since it depends entirely on the nature of the medical system where you live, but somewhere between 'hard' and 'very hard' I imagine.

>>2684520
every physician I know has said that medical school isn't so much hard as it is a hell of a lot of work

and all you need to be accepted is to get good grades in biology/chemistry as an undergrad

and you need to have passed calc 2 or something

>>2684532
>>"depends entirely on the nature of the medical system where you live"
>>cites the american system for medical entry
>>everyone lives in america

Jesus fuck, why do you try so hard to live up to the cliches?

this is an american website, and most posters are american

if you're that mad about it, there are a variety of other chans

2chan, 0chan, krautchan, etc

>>2684636
It's one thing to assume other posters are American, but it's quite another to channel your inner chucklefuck and joyfully pipe in with whatever the american system is as though it applies to everyone, when, get this, the post in question was specifically about the fact that there are other systems.

Either you perfectly fit the hur dur ignorant amerikkkan cliche that gets bandied about so often on here, or you've got some serious issues with reading comprehension.

>med school

>con artist

btw cures for cancer/obesity/etc. are rolling out in the next couple of years, have fun with your school debt and no job lol

>>2684701

o lol gravitity has been discovered liek few decades ago,wut are physics majors doing anyways, discovering large hodron coliders that diding nigger work.

>>2684636
>>2684636
>>2684636

no they are not