/sci/ - Science & Math

Except there is no spiritual world.

lrn2 hide threads.

>THEOLOGY is the study of the spiritual world
>implying there is a spiritual world

That's why it's useless.

1d (a ruler) measurement works on 2d and 3d objects your retard

>>2670892
/thread


Can we talk about the cosmos now?

Why not?
Just because you say so?

>>2670892
No OP but the spiritual world could be a higher plane than that of our universe. Using OP's reasoning our Universe is 3D and the plane higher to ours could be 4D. Like we can draw and create 2D images those in 4D can do the same but in 3D

No EVERYTHING can be solved through science. Only optimistic kids fresh in their studies think that.

>>2670903
so why is there a spiritual world?
Because a man with some fancy clothes tells me so?

>>2670887
Fuck yeah, I agree with this anon

Why can't all you niggers get it - science is a tool for humanity, not it's fucking holy grail

>>2670908


That question will be answered one day. I cannot give you the answer because I do not know. Just like how cave man were able to create fire but not know why.

hey OP

did you know that the creation of threads like this only adds to the shittiness of this board?

also you are a fag

>>2670906

Anyone with a functional brain can conclude that if it doesn't manifest in our world, it doesn't exist. It you can't measure it, it doesn't exist. To say that god exists is to say that pink flying unicorns exist, and we all know they don't.

SURE YOU CAN SAY ITS POSSIBLE THAT THEY DO, BUT YOUR BEGGING THE QUESTION.

>>2670921
well but there are lots of things studied in mathematics that don't exist in real life

regular polygons, for example

>>2670913
Why is there so much hating when it comes to spirituality?

Is it because the fact that the world is a mysterious place frighten you so you need to defend those beliefs with such lust? I mean, an intelligent person would debate the subject in question and wouldn't use the holier-than-thou approach like most haters around here.

Science is all about exploring, remember?

>>2670921
There's a difference between what is observable and what is not observable.

p.s not OP

but I hope everyone on Sci reads this thread and take their circle jerk to the church of atheism
since its practically a belief.

>>2670908
I was actually referring to the OPs argument that you can't use science in the spiritual world. That's what I meant by the "why not"?

theist here, op is a fag

>>2670931

Those are abstractions demonstrable. They're quantifiable in way that can be expressed by numbers. Have you EVER met two people that have the same view of god? Can you quantify his existence?

If you know it, you can show it. IF you can't show it, then you DON'T know it.

>>2670936
Because our science is to measure the physical world and what in encompasses. Should the spiritual world have the same makeup as ours than sure you can, but who is to say what he define as rational is rational everywhere else?

>>2670887
>>2670887
>philosophy is the answer to the spiritual world.

fix'd just for you

SCIENCE is man's attempt to describe how GOD does things

nothing more, and a whole lot less

This thread is most likely just a big troll, but I want to make a point along the lines of what OP said. First of all, we are part of this universe. This universe absolutely contains us and everything. Now, science is basically studying this universe from the inside out. Theology makes a point to say what if there's an outside to the universe? The problem is that we're part of our own universe. We could never study an alternate universe or even conceive anything about it because we're not in that universe, we're in THIS universe. However, maybe we can know to not know that there could be something beyond our universe, although it may not affect us since our universe is what contains all of us.

TL:DR: Science is relevant because it relates to this universe. Theology is studying a universe that we're not a part of, or can't relate to very well.

>>2670953
beautifully written.

>>2670940
of course, but only if those two people were filled by the Holy Spirit, because then you would be comparing God to God

>>2670955
this universe contains everything that is in this universe, and nothing that is not in this universe

fixed that for you :)

>>2670887

OP here
I'm actually not a troll, and I find it amusing that people have lost so much trust in others that they label everything and everyone they perceive to be after them as trolls.

tl:dr not a troll, just making a point.

>spiritual world
troll thread?

The beauty of this post.

OP i completely agree with you, i've been trying to make this point for a while.

Just like how God can create something out of nothing without reference to it before hand, unlike humans that build upon references.


i.e god can create the colour blue without prior knowing to what that is. We cannot conceive this ability because it is beyond our level of comprehension. Like how a 2D object is not conscious of a 3D object.

Science comes from the Latin word scientia, meaning knowledge.

>>2670953
But we HAVE figured out how 'God' does things, and did it ourselves, and learned that God really doesn't do much at all.. Science has taught us that there's much more to life than worshiping deities.

Not to come down on whatever religious conviction you might have, but you're so completely and totally wrong to thing that blind faith is the be all, end all to all the answers of the universe.

>>2670993
God has created elements ect....without prior references. To say god hasn't done much at all is like saying the inventor of the computer had not done much. He created the foundation for all with nothing.

OP lives in "troll world", which is actually a subworld of "faggot world".

>>2670887
>implying there is a spiritual world

>>2670993
Really? What of after-life, are you comfortable to know that you will end up as nothing and never exist again?

Worshipping the creator is important to secure our afterlife.

also inb4 god created evil.

God created evil so that their is good. What is good without evil? Good needs to be compared with an opposite in order to validate its existence.

>>2671009
deep.

Like how there isn't nothingness without something.

It's less that you can't use scientific reasoning on theology and more than there is no answer to the question of whether or not there is a god.

There is no way to prove that one or any god/s exist or do not exist. Some choose to believe they do and some don't. It's simply not something you can debate.

>>2671009

Why are you religious cunts on /sci/ haven't you got anywhere else to go to?

God exists to those that believe he does and God doesn't exist to those that choose not to believe. Since we can only have faith in this situation than the existence of God is subjective.

>>2671009

>What of after-life, are you comfortable to know that you will end up as nothing and never exist again?

Yes, because that's exactly what it is. Worshipping a creator is just an excuse for people that are too afraid of the cruel, yet real, reality that when you die you cease to exist.

>>2671022

If he is omnipresent, then surely he cannot be subjective

Theology studies the "spirirtual world"? In other words, Theology is a study of imaginary speculations on God and the supernatural without any kind of reliable evidence or justification?

Sounds about right.

Except Science and reasoned thinking completely defeat the idea that a spirit world exists.
If you'd like to contest this, please provide your evidence. You have none.

>>2671030
Upon revelations through the abrahamic religions.

Stop trolling you godless cunt.

>>2670887
I'm sorry OP. In my mixed bag of academia I happen to have a degree in comparative religion. And I must inform you that you are quite mistaken.

Theology is the study of the history and dogma of religion.

Also I would like to add that if a person has a degree in theology from a religious uni, 99% of the time they do not really know anything.

>>2671022
>God exists to those that believe he does and God doesn't exist to those that choose not to believe. Since we can only have faith in this situation than the existence of God is subjective.

So does this mean i can believe in whatever i want? You just said god is subjective, how do i know i'm not god. You know what. I am god, so start worshiping me, unless you want to burn for all eternity.

Also, remember, I love you.

>>2671017

Sure it is. We all have things called "standards of evidence"

We all have that burden of proof before we accept any claim to be true. Theists just have a much lower standard when accepting truth based assertions. Atheists have much more rigorous standards of evidence, and normally require that extraordinary claims are backed up by extraordinary evidence.

In an absolute philosophical sense, no, there is not way to reach absolute truth. But you can say that about EVERYTHING.

>>2671035
Through studies of historic dogmas and revelations you achieve insight from the spiritual world. Descriptions of hell and heaven ect..

>>2671009
Why did God manufacture the laws of the universe such that in order for good to be appreciated, evil must also exist? Couldn't God, being almighty, have made the universe in a way that goodness could be understood and appreciated without the need for evil? Any way you try to justify it, your God could have chosen not to include evil in his plans, yet he made the conscious and specific choice to do so.

>>2671044
Who are we to argue what one of a plane higher than ours decides. We cannot comprehend his plans because they are not conscious to us.

>>2671034

Oh, upon revelations! I see.

Why didn't you say so? That's probably the most reliable type of evidence! Because the revelations were consistent with each other and in no way contradicted, leading to schisms in churches, holy wars, and best of all... apologists.

GTFO my /sci/.

>>2670993
i agree, which is why i do not have blind faith, but faith in the quite real Jesus Christ, and in His promises

science has NOTHING to offer that is in the same ballpark as salvation.

>>2671022
Bull fucking shit.

God either does exist or does not exist. This is an objective truth. God exists IN THE MINDS of the people who believe in him. God doesn't exist IN THE MINDS of the people who don't.

However, what people HOLD IN THEIR MINDS does not change the objective reality. If I chose not to believe in apples, that doesn't suddenly zap all apples out of objective reality. They still exist.
Yes, peoples' PERCEPTION of god is subjective. However, the matter of his intersection with reality is a completely objective matter that does not change relative to an individual's belief systems.

>>2671022
so if we all didn't believe in God, then He wouldn't exist?

lol

u so crazy

>>2671060

lol

>>2671029
God lives in an overlapping heaven that we cannot perceive (yet)(most of us, a few have already and lived to tell the tale), that is all around us.

>>2671060

Science provides salvation from disease, cold winters, ignorance and countless other things.

Your Jesus character? Salvation from a conveniently contrived and utterly unobservable hellfire.

Yeah, I think science wins this one buddy.

>>2671041
i call a guy walking out of His own grave three days after He was killed pretty solid proof

so sorry you need more (but there is more; in fact, there is enough "proof" even for you, as there is for hundreds of millions of other people).

>>2671075
[Citation needed]

>>2671081
science has figured out how to terraform hell? that would indeed be impressive

but science stating for a fact that there is no hell is kind of silly, especially considering how many modern scientists will be populating same lake of fire

this is /sci/ for science.
as you said, the study of the physical world.

how come you are annoyed at atheists circlejerking on a board dedicated to logic/reason and skepticism (for the most part).
from your own post you clearly indicate you know those things rule out spiritual non-science entering the discussion?

if /sci/ wasn't an atheist circlejerk something would be wrong.

>>2671082
>i call a guy walking out of His own grave three days after He was killed pretty solid proof

I call a story about a guy walking out of his own grave three days after he was killed pretty solid proof.

Fixed it for you.

>>2671064
You use the concept of a completely objective reality very readily. There is no reason to believe that such a thing exists.

On topic, well trolled OP.

>>2671075

NO!

>>2671049
It seems any time you whittle a theist down to their last breath and destroy every single argument they have, they retreat to their sanctuary of canned answers. The loopholes, the cop-outs, the last death throes of a limp argument.

These include the following, and variations thereof:
>God works in mysterious ways
>We cannot understand God's logic, it is higher than ours
>You can't prove me wrong

>>2671082
if only we had any proof he actually did, I'd readily consider it.

>>2671082

Eye witness testimony is the lowest form of evidence. You can talk to entire families that SWEAR they where abducted by aliens. I still don't believe them.

And name one historical contemporary account for Jesus other than the bible.

>>2671084
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See more books at the Bible Gateway store2 Corinthians 12:2 (New King James Version)
2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven.

the apostle Paul, and later John the Relevator, were both caught up into the third heaven. note the many instances where beings in the third heaven speak to people walking on earth, who hear and speak back to these beings. the third heaven, then, is not above the first two; not above our atmosphere and outer space; it overlaps us in a dimension we cannot (yet) perceive, where there is no time, no decay, no "universal" principals.

heaven will be there; the new earth and the new heaven will be there; Jesus will be there; i will be there, and i invite you to believe in Jesus so that you can be there too

>>2670887
> you cannot use scientific reasoning to see into the spiritual world since it is not the same thing.
Right. Science can only work on things that exist.

>>2671082
Oh, so now it's okay to use empirical, statistical studies of the real world to justify the spiritual world? Also, >implying Christianity only numbers in the millions

>>2671088
Now that's how you play by the rules.

>>2671105
i, um, may have copy pasta'd a bit too much >.<

>>2671105
Can i get some proof that what's said in those book are true?

Your correct OP, but that's a terribly terrible metaphor.

>>2671082
1. It never happened. To contest this, please prove it did.
2. Even if Jesus did rise from the dead, it is a complete and utter non-sequitur to then assert "Because Jesus rose from the dead, therefore he is god".
The occurrence of the event "Jesus' resurrection" tells you one thing; it happened. It tells you nothing of HOW OR WHY it happened. An equally valid argument to yours would be, "Jesus rose from the dead, therefore advanced space aliens used technology to restore him to health and fly him away".

So even if I grant you that Jesus was resurrected, this says nothing about how he was resurrected and even less about God's existence.

OP is an awesomely disguised troll.

He makes a completely valid and none-stupid point that, if argued against, would make the one replying to him look like a douche... EXCEPT he ends it in the worse way possible, which opens him up for insults, which traps those throwing the insults into the douche trap. So everyone looks like a douche or an idiot.

Well played, OP. 10/10

People are resurrected from the dead every fucking day. We don't go around calling them god just because they've been dead for a while.

>>2671060

Jesus' death wasn't a sacrifice anyway:

As far as I can see there was none. We have three options related to sacrifice:

1) Jesus was a fully mortal entity who died on the cross and did not resurrect- A sacrifice is made.

2) Jesus was either fully mortal or part god and died on the cross but was resurrected 3 days alter- not really a sacrifice, just a minor annoyance for a couple of hours.
3) Jesus was god incarnated as human flesh, “Died” on the cross and ascended back home 3 days later. No sacrifice at all.

http://edinburghskeptics.wordpress.com/2010/04/02/did-jesus-make-a-sacrifice/

>>2671133

But to understand that you'll have to think logically.
Therefore what you said will be completely useless against theists.

>>2671143
Except his point was stupid and it was not valid.
Testing and evidence are the ways we verify what is real and what is not real.
To say that "the spirit realm cannot be tested" is to essentially say "there's not a single way to verify that this is real". So the claim that "science and religion are compatible" and variations thereof is completely false, because science and reasoned thinking defeat speculations about a spirit realm. If you want to have an excuse to believe in the spirit realm, you'll have to prove yourself first.

>>2671150

So the pain of being whipped, thorns stuck in your head, and being nailed through your wrists and feet to a plank of wood and left to die in the sun isn't a sacrifice?

A woman giving birth naturally makes a sacrifice.

A sacrifice of pain.

>>2671143

>>2671176
Just like
>>2671147
those kinds of sacrifices are made every day by lots of people. Doesn't make them gods. Just human.

>>2671176

No, if he was the son of god, he wouldn't feel pain like a normal human

>>2671193

Also crucifixion was the most common form of execution in those days, so he would only have endured what every other criminal would have

>>2671090
it's real to me, dammit!


lol

ITT: 15 year olds thinking their smart debating religion with their high school science but have no knowledge of the cultural values it holds

>>2671228
>they're

>>2671103
hundreds of eyewitnesses, tens of thousands of original manuscripts, the transformation of his cowardly crew into world changing titans, the changing of the Julian calendar, the transformation of Rome... the current fascination with a first century carpenter covers all that for you?

>>2671201
and yet, oddly enough, his hanging on a tree was prophesied hundreds of years before crucifixion was even invented....odd how the bible keeps being right....

>>2671240
How is crucifixion equivalent to hanging on a tree? The presence of wood does not define a living tree.

Second, how do you know the descriptions of Jesus's life in the bible weren't changed by people to make the story fit?

>>2671237

Eyewitnesses are the least reliable pieces of evidence. It also says in the bible zombies were real

“And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose. And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many” Matthew 27:52-53

Not only do we have zombies, but people saw them. Lots of people. Now call me cynical, but if a city under Roman occupation was invaded by zombies, do you not think ONE contemporary historian would have written about it. Do you not think even ONE non contemporary historian would have written about it.

>>2671240
> prophesied hundreds of years before crucifixion was even invented.
[Citation Needed]

>odd how the bible keeps being right....
Oh yes, according to the bible.
bats are birds.
It's evil to wear clothing with mixed fabric.
The earth is 6000 years old.
There are thousands of examples where the bible is flat out wrong. You have to do better then that.

I don't get how people believe in God. I've tried speaking to Him, yet he has never replied. And don't give me the 'honest prayer' bullshit. Theists constantly argue that they talk to God, which implies a respons. So if I call out to God to see if he's there, he ought to answer. Otherwise I have no reason to believe he exists. Or are there office hours I don't know about?

>ITT

>>2671272

You get no answer because you aren't psychotic.

if the universe was created by itself, then why does the idea of god appear so often in people's lives? I'd say it's the creator hinting to his creations (like when a video game developer puts an easter egg into his games)

>>2671282
Why must there be a need for a creator? Just because humans build from reference doesn't mean the entire universe is built from reference by some invisible creator.

>>2671282
Because 2000 years ago there were only a few million people on the planet and most of the
"civilized" societies were gathered in the middle east, where the then convinient christian believe spread. Then the population grew very rapidly 'infecting' most newborn with religion. It's crudely like AIDS in Africa.

>>2671290

which is easier to believe: that the universe just *happened* to create humans who just *happen* to believe in god or that god existed and created the universe with religion in mind to show himself to his creations?

>>2670887

U mad OP?

>>2671282

If god created all of us. Why are ------WE------ the only ones on this planet that know it? You would think... God would have told the Tiger... "Hey dont fuck with those hairless ape-looking creatures, Or i'll come slap the shit out of you!".... But no, A tiger see's you in the wild and if its hungry enough it will fucking eat you.

Subsequently enough... Why is it God cherry picks his ascendents? If god was real at one point or ANY point... he wouldn't have to rely on prophets to spread the word... he could just fucking tell us himself. Why allow us to live in a cloud of enigmas and stories if he could just instantly conjure up whatever he wants.

Its illogical and irrational to hold such a silly belief and attempt to rationalize it. Every time you try to prove it you only get sucked into emotions telling you its true... but the reality hits you like a stone slab eventually. I know because I was catholic from inception till college. No one likes the truth, but this is the only fact that will be more relevant than anything else concerning human emotions... The truth never hurt unless a lie got there first.

Theists have been lying for centuries about you fucking name it and they just make shift their story to fit their claims... sorry but this world can see through the bullshit. I hope eventually you do too.

Pic related.

>>2671298
>that the universe just *happened* to create humans who just *happen* to believe in god

This

>>2671298
Neither. You're stating that "god" just so *happened* to be there and just so *happened* to "create" the entire universe and just *happened* to have some sort of plan to place "religion" in their minds.

>>2671310
I don't see why any religion should exist.

>>2671298

It's clear from what we've seen here on earth that life will spring up wherever it can. So it's likely that life exists on other planets too. We're not so special

>>2671282
Generalizing...

God to early humans was an obese woman with huge tits.
God to greeks was GodS

The only reason the idea of God is around is because it's perpetuated and reinvented by ignorance.

>>2671314

>>2671310

ah, but you see my deer misguided atheist, in my case god has a REASON for creating the universe, in your case the universe just existed. Things don't happen for no reason

>>2671332

maybe god is all those things?

>>2671324

I wish I could see the day Theists meet intelligent life on another planet and try to tell them is contrived bullshit...

I can already see the alien's face.

>>2670909
science is not a tool for humanity, technology is.

Plus, religious people ( and theologists, maybe its the same thing, i don't know nor give a fuck) state that your "spiritual world" has an impact on our "physical world".

How could science study the physical world if it cannot discuss of something that is supposed to have an impact on it ?

There would be no problem if theologists accepted to say that, whatever happens in their "spiritual world" it doesn't affect the physical world. It would just be a bunch of crazy people discussing about their dreams.

>>2671354
>implying the deluded wouldn't be totally ostracized by aliens (seeing as how only an anarcho-capitalist society could travel through space, and theyd just want to sell you shit)

>>2671324
This. We're really not that special.

>>2671338
Brofist bro

>>2671341
Again you fail to see, why must there be a reason? You feel the need to give the universe a beginning but not "god" a beginning.

>>2671341

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkZNnD99Ap4

I know you probably wont watch this video. But if you do you'll understand something important. It'll only take 5 minutes of your time.

>>2671341
They don't...? I find that very hard to believe. In fact that seems to contradict my everyday experience and the cumulated experience of humanity over the last 10'000 years.

>>2671341
You are severely misinterpreting was "reason" means in the context.

If a rock falls into the pond, the reason it fell was due to gravity and maybe some force that was applied to it.

The meaning behind a rock falling into a pond? There is no meaning, it just happened.

Everything happens for a reason, but not everything that happens has meaning.

Alright, everyone needs to calm the fuck down. I got this.

There is surely no celestial sky daddy. That's a fucking stupid dogma, and it makes no sense. Period. However, I will warrant you that a God like the one Einstein hypothesized(a "God" that is defined as the sum total of all physical laws in the universe) could exist. And there would be no need to attempt to quantify its existence, because it is already quantified. So, there could be a type of "God" as most unaligned theists suggest, but when it comes to Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc., all you can do is shake your head and say:

"How fucking stupid can you be?"

>>2671367
>>2671377

trolled hard. I'm fucking atheist I was just fucking with you to see if you had the debate skills to argue with me (you don't)

jokes on you I was only pretending

>>2671395
see
>>2671185

/sci/ is the worst board on 4chan by far because this is where all the 13 year olds rebelling against mom and dad come to inflate their egos by bashing religion on a board where no one gives a fuck modern atheism is just a new religion, the religion of liberalism.

>>2671395

>>2671408

Pic related

on your way out look up the definition of Atheism. It might clue you in on a thing or two.

>>2671341

Yeah, god created the universe, then waited 8.7 billion years to form our solar system, then another 4.99 billion years to tell some desert shepherds how to live

>>2671408
Yeah, right...
Time to stop posting and to start doing your homeworks.

>>2671411

you think anyone that retarded would go to a SCIENCE AND MATH board on 4chan? Nigga just admit you were trolled hard and walk away while you still have some dignity

>>2671419
butthurt 13 year old dawkins worshiping atheist detected. HURR DURR ATHEISTS R A LACK OF RELIGIONZ IT NOT A RELIGION DURRRR

this proves atheism is a religion, you all parrot the same bullshit.

>>2671341
I think his point is that your argument against the universe "just happening to be there" can be used against your very own God. Your explanation is no better. Okay, so God created the universe. From whence did God come? You'll say "God is eternal, etc." How is that any different than what atheists say? You are lodging attacks against atheists that work against your own explanation as well.

>Things don't happen for no reason

Prove it.

>>2671425
Maybe it only seemed as a day to him.

>>2671425

because a billion years sure is a long fucking time to wait for a being that exists outside of spacetime, right?

you guys give atheists a bad name, I suggest you stop before you hurt yourselves

You know, trolling used to be a clever show of humor and wit.. Now it has devolved into.. Well, this >>2671431

>>2671442
same butthurt gaytheist teenager. keep trying

>>2671438
His point is; why does god wait so long to create humans? Considering the huge amount of time that the universe existed without humans, paired with the theist claim that we are the purpose for the universe's creation seems nonsensical.

He never made the implication that time meant anything to an infinite entity. And your flippant reaction suggests to me that you were only looking to flame someone for no reason.

>>2671449
No, not really. And when you fail to read the definitions of words, I will declare you a troll.

If you want to call atheism a religion, please define "religion" and describe how atheism fits this definition.

>>2671436

I'm not talking about his perspective, I'm talking about ours. Why would he bother waiting 13.7 billion years after the creation of the universe to create us?

>>2671460

maybe that's just how fucking long it takes to create humans. Our point is that your point is fucking stupid and you sound like a faggot

yh but. like. there isn't a god.
js like.
js you know..
sure you don't believe in one.
sure you're not so fantastically mind dead ;D

>>2671449
>Uses "gay" in a derogatory manner.

Obvious teen

>>2671478

Obviously it doesn't. It only takes 9 months. Or is god less efficient than a woman?

>>2671489
obvious teen brainwashed by mtv and celebrities to to spread propaganda against the use of "gay" in a derogatory manner

>>2671474
I don't get it.
It is because he has his own perspective of time. Where is the problem ? We think he waited a long time, but he doesn't.

I'm a atheist btw.

>>2671478
God has infinite power. How can such a being take any amount of time to do anything when no challenge can be presented to him?
Now retreat to "god is mysterious, you can't question his logic" please.

>>2671491
Well one could argue that it takes 9 months when you already have the plans (=DNA). God had to create them too.

>>2671497
>to to
Obvious dumbass

>>2671513
13 billions years is NOT A FUCKING LONG TIME FOR GOD !!!
1 year is only the time for our planet to make a complete rotation around the sun (more or less), it is not fundamentally long or short.

>>2671501

I mean, why didn't he create us as soon as the universe was created? Why didn't he do it after 1? 2?....

Why did he wait 13.7 billion years

>>2671272
I had a teacher make the mistake of saying "Could you hear god talking to you?"

And infront of the entire grade, I proclaimed "no". She wasn't too impressed.

"God" is what YOU want it to be.

If you're not spiritual, then it's your loss.

If you truly believe in a creator, then more power to you.

>>2671548
damn UR SO EDGY XD

tell me moar atheist teen

>>2671513
>>2671533
just realized you wrote:
>How can such a being take any amount of time
and not
>How can he take such a large amount of time

sorry. I guess I read (=past tense) what I wanted to read (=present tense, fucking English language).

>>2671533

Oh and you know that for a fact do you?

>>2671544
It can be argued that he had many attempts to get it right.
Eg/ Dinosaurs etc.
It can also be argued that he was experimenting with different species etc.

You could almost see god as a toy maker.

> I'm not religious

the physical world entirely contains us, therefore any nonphysically based interaction would have to have a physical consequence. Given that the consequence would have to be measurable were it able to have an effect on energy, and that effect would be within the realm of science.
same applies for any dualist or extra universal theory: for there to be an effect there must be evidence of an effect.

>>2671354
Well, think about what would happen if we were still on Earth when Aliens came and talked about this God they wanted to share with us.

Now, let me put this in perspective. We're still trying to figure out an effective and simple way to get to the next planet over, while these aliens have just flown probably hundreds of light years through the stars with technology we couldn't possibly understand, and now they have some sort of God they want to talk about? Who's to say it's a made-up one like ours? What if it's just their equivalent title for some great force? Perhaps its their king. Are you really gonna piss off the guys with space traveling technology that lets them cross light years because "GOD IS FOR STUPID PEOPLE?"

Hell no, you're gonna be at least giving the guy some time to talk. Or running and screaming in fear. One or the other.

Ok you know what this kinda shit is why i worship Fagus.
No hate.
No bull shit.
Just beech trees.
You all going to hell.
Oh wait there isn't a hell if the only celtic god you believe in is Fagus.
There are only beech trees.
Now shut the fuck up and go plant a beech tree.
Don't live near in an area habitable to the beech tree?
Plant a fucking beech tree.

>>2671514


what difference to him does it make whether it takes 9 months or 2 seconds or 10 minutes or 100 trillion years?

>>2671563

You could also argue thats all speculation and have no proof to accept that as knowledge.

>>2671544
Well, maybe this amount of time has a symbolic value in another time unit (I don't know, I am just throwing random arguments at you)

Let's suppose that God does have plan. We think that the big bang, is the beginning of time. But for God, it isn't: it is just a particular point of space-time, so he puts his "puppets" on a particular point of space-time and just watch things go by themselves.

>>2671568
>>2671354

I can't wait to see the day that religious humans meet up with a much more militarily advanced alien race that worships a different deity. If you can't figure out what the implications of this are, you need to read a history textbook. If you are to lazy or stupid to do that, I'll spell it out for you:

Homo sapiens sapiens will be exterminated.

>>2671568

If these people are more advanced than us, You could imply that they would see things in a similar light as yours as it is all speculation. But if they indeed have the scientific capacity to travel at light speed... I think they have already ascertained enough physical knowledge of the universe to absolve themselves of such petty beliefs.

Herein the truth is that the need to assert the existence of a god is just an extension of our own lack of knowledge and give the lack of knowledge a name. If these aliens have progressed far beyond us, I almost reasonably certain they have released themselves of this and if they believe in a higher calling they will do so with something to show for it. Not a story or a recollection. But like I said this is all mere speculation :)

>>2671580
I guess you have a point there.
Maybe that God is not a God but only a Creator, so he wouldn't have infinite powers.

And also there is the rock paradox (don't if its real name though) :
If god is almighty, can he create a rock that he cannot bear ?

>>2671603

sad but true...

>>2671568
If they have proof, I see no problem.

>Denounce unicorns and goblins
>Believe in God

Makes sense...

Reported for science vs. religion. Keep this cancer off our /sci/.

>>2670887

You cannot use spiritual reasoning to see into the physical world.

>>2671653

>>2671562
No all of this is obviously pure speculation.
It is just that, since God created time, we can assume that 13.7 billion years or 10^-43 seconds doesn't make much difference to him.

>>2671670

Why can we assume that?

>>2671684

Zeitgeist LOL!

>>2671684

I don't give two fucks about religion, but all that Horus stuff is wrong...very very wrong.

>>2671679
Because it seems logical. (Yeah, I know that was an easy one)

Also because God is defined as almighty.

>>2671689
>>2671684

I am not sure this is even relevant, It is already known that a lot of Christians beliefs were taken from pagan ones so that people would accept Christianity more easily.

>>2671237
Oh look, it's Norman L. Geisler.

I am always perplexed why people believe in god, or organized religion anyways (I can see why someone with a weak constitution might need to use a god to explain the beginning of the universe, but believing we're special and said god takes part in our lives is ludicrous, like that black guy). I think I find it so hard to believe why people actually think this way because I am looking at religion from an outside perspective. When you are brought up from the day you were born with religious ideas being poured into you, you come to accept it as fact, and theism is ingrained into your mind, so an argument from any outside source is automatically discredited to you. Once you take a few steps back and look at religion from an outside perspective, though, it really is easy to see how it's just a load of crap.

You are a Christian because you were brought up that way.
You are a Muslim or Jew because you were brought up that way.

No one here is talking about Egyptian gods, deities from prehistoric times and other deities. Why? The notion of that belief or religion died out.

Same thing will happen with this generation of religions. In a few thousand years, they'll be either replaced by a stronger religion, or abolished due to the advancement of human thinking.

Believe what you want. It makes no difference. You die believing in a heaven, you will die believing in a heaven. No more, no less.

>"THEOLOGY is the study of the spiritual world"
>Definition of theology: The study of the nature of God and religious belief

Posting in an incorrectly termed troll thread.

Captcha: visions rliven

>ludicrous
>like that black guy
oh_you.jpg

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus

>Christian responds: This is a misconception as >god gave everyone the power of choice between >right and wrong, that's how we grow, become >wiser, and make good and bad choices. If he >stopped evil at every possible chance, we would >have no life nor choices in anything and the >overall experience we call "life" would suck

How do I go about explaining that God's free will and sin stuff is garbage, because if Adam and Eve were really the first humans, when Satan told them to eat the apple, they had no prior concept of good and evil.

>>2670906
It's convenient that your "spiritual world" or "dimension" or whatever you may call it is not in any way observable, to yourself or anyone else. If even you can't observe it, then how do you "study" it?

This thread is dumb.

>>2673735
http://www.fullmoon.nu/articles/art.php?id=tal
If he forces us on the path, that screws up our development. We are, after all, a species of infant Gods ourselves. We must determine the path for ourselves, if the Earth-foetus is to go to term as it should.

>>2673735
Our 'growth' frequently comes at the expense of innocent lives. What god would envision such a system? A malevolent one. Or one that isn't omnipotent.

>>2670906
>the spiritual world could be a higher plane than that of our universe.
Physics major here, and I want you to die in fire. WTF does "higher" mean?!

>>2673781
Square: What if there was another set of people living on a 'higher' plane, with strange godlike powers called "up" and "down" and such?
Circle: Physics major here, and I want you to die in fire. WTF does "higher" mean?!

>>2673781
More imaginary.

>>2673797
All my hate...

It's called a fucking DIMENSION, and it isn't "higher". Another dimension to our universe would not be HIGHER, fuckface.

inb4 but other dimensions are what they say in science fictions and I don't know what they actually mean so I'm just going to start saying words that I think are hard and...

>>2673797
>doesn't know what dimensions are

Troll thread, you guys are fucking stupid for replying.

>>2673813
notice that the word higher was in quotes.

>>2673829
Are you and I stupid for replying with sage?

>>2673829
Are you and I stupid for replying with sage?

>>2673839

I think he meant "replying without a sage, with something substantive."

>>2673833
The x-axis isn't "higher" then the y-axis. So either you are a fuckface for stating that it is "higher" or you are even more of a fuckface for just saying random shit that doesn't even relate to anything anyone else is talking about.

>>2673849
>>2673856

Actually what I meant was "without sage, with anything other than calling other people faggots for posting in a troll thread". But I think you got it!

>>2673856
Why so linkless?

>>2670887
if there is a spriitual world then how come there are so many interpretations of it

christian theology differs from buddhist theology

explain THAT

Prove that some bushman in the amazon doesn't have the "real" spirituality.

You can't. They don't. It's just the ghost in the machine - the brain making up causative agents to explain things it couldn't understand. Now we can - thunder isn't angry gods at all, never was, never will be. Be as spiritual as you want, but everyone ever who thought it was was WRONG.

>3>2
>vertical number line
>higher in quotes
hyperliteral aspie detected

>>2673917
You are defending the concept of "the spirit world". You are a marked tripfag.

If science can't prove or disprove something, it may or may not exist and therefore I will have my own opinion and you will have yours.

>>2673942
No, I'm criticizing an aspie. It's my hobby. I take the DeGrasse Tyson approach to the numinous.

>I know that the molecules in my body are traceable to phenomena in the cosmos. That makes me want to grab people in the street and say, “Have you heard this?”

>>2671408
Has anyone given a name to those who believe in a God, but not a God described by any current religion. A god who in-fact is just an ALIENNN!!!

>>2673735
But they aren't. The Catholic Church leaves the old testament open to personal interpretation. Don't get your fundamentalists confused with your smart Christians.

Theists, is there any phenomenon that you attribute to supernatural causes that is not also explained by science?

It seems to me that religion only serves two purposes: 1) explaining the unexplainable, and 2) manipulating the masses. Science is a more robust alternative to (1); where religion answers "Why?" with "God", science can describe every intricate detail of the observable universe.

That leaves religion with (2), a collection of fairy tales about morality. Nothing against morality, but you don't need spiritual BS to explain why you shouldn't be a dick. However, I imagine a lot of people would abandon their moral compasses if it weren't for promises of divine rewards and punishment. Why else would people be bitching about abortion, gay marriage, or whatever other nonsense passes for news/politics? By capitalizing on this built-in mind control, the "government" is able to piggyback other policies on these divisive issues.

tl;dr: I just posted in a /sci/ troll thread. Oh well.

You are all wrong. Monoliths did it.