/sci/ - Science & Math

truth was spoken

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6437080948273722203#docid=1405611374523233913

> it makes some sense...
No, it doesn't. Lrn2 game theory. No rational company would choose supressing some technology over become world's monopolist. And don't even get me started about how would you prevent military from getting their hands on it.

>>2653041
people often don't realize how many money is into this and what this all is about.

saudi arabia has oil reserves worth around $20-$30 trillion, and the worlds biggest industries are all depending on this (cars, planes, etc).

if oil was to be replaced tomorrow probably 3/4 of the world would be unemployed

>>2653060
[citation required]

>>2653060

ITT: Economics fail.

If energy was free, we would live in a post-scarcity world where concepts such as 'greed' 'wealth' and 'employment' would have no meaning.

Seriously, this is laughably retarded. Almost as bad as chemtrails and flouride water.

>>2653060
>if oil was to be replaced tomorrow probably 3/4 of the world would be unemployed
Why would you expect the oil replacement to be any less human resource intensive? It's not like the oil replacement will do the work itself.

>>2653041 this

also...what the fuck is "free energy" do you not realize how retarded that sounds? its a contradiction in terms. The closest we will ever get to "free" energy is solar power, and even that will run out in a few billion years.

>>2653060
This post in mind-bogglingly retarded. If the west had the chance to get rid of Saudi Arabia's monopoly on oil, we would in a second. Plus, jobs would only be lost for a moment, as the "new" energy would create jobs. Plus, since when has the "elite"or whatever global conspiracy you believe in cared about regular people? Who cares if the people working in oil lost their jobs, the financial crisis proved that profit > humans, and you WOULD make a profit with a more efficient energy source. 3/4 of people in the world do not work in oil, btw.

>>2653081
>implying the human race will survive past a few thousand year, much less long enough to have to worry about the sun running out of energy in BILLIONS of years.

lol, you dumb.

>>2653117
it's just that when you have $20trillion and use it as your personal bank account (saudi king) you have the power to do whatever you want, and you wont give that up so easily

>>2653081
>and even that will run out in a few billion years.
fuck, yeah, let's not even bother

>>2653120
I think you're overestimating his power, he's rich, but he still has a monopoly on something everyone needs. It's a cutthroat world in business, one opportunity to bleed him dry and you bet somebody would take it.

>>2653064
http://www.forbes.com/profile/abdullah-bin-abdul-aziz-al-saud

>>2653118

>implying humans as a species will die out.

Fuck of misanthrope.

>>2653151
Everything dies. Much more genetically diverse and resilient species on earth have been wiped out.

With the fragility of our current technology (dependent on an infrastructure that uses a finite energy source; fossil fuels) our days are literally numbered. We're fucking stupid.

>>2653003
>it makes sense
Only if what free energy researchers say is true, i.e., if fields are dynamic rather than static as modern physicists believe.

>Stan Meyer sure was a great troll
He was murdered, whether his car worked or not.

If anyone is actually interested in the subject, free-energy-info.com is a good compilation of claimed fe devices and the largest fe forum is called overunity.com

The next form of energy will be cold fusion. NASA will no longer be able to hold back the fact that the Sun's actual composition differs from the standard model. We have satellite data, elemental separation studies, and cold fusion research to thank. It will light the way to a new era of economic equality for all.

>>2653199
don't need some new sun model for cold fusion. there are already tons of research projects.

As much money as there is to be made on oil, you could make about ten gazillion times more with free energy. Unless the mechanics of it are incredibly simple, in which case it would have been impossible to keep it suppressed because so many people worldwide would be discovering it all the time.

Either it's hard to do and there are good economic reasons nobody's done it, or it doesn't exist.

>>2653210

Cold fusion experiments have yet to involve molten metals under high pressures. If you want a truly sustainable cold fusion reactor capable of high electrical output you will need this type of environment. The same environment that exists in the Birkeland-Sun model...not the flawed helium/hydrogen standard model.

>>2653240
I see this line of reasoning all the time from skeptics. it would be logical if governments didn't exist, but unfortunately they do. you're invoking impossibility of conspiracies, as if governments don't already use the threat of violence against their citizens when collecting taxes.

>>2653081
G = H - TS

(hahahahaaaaa!)

but really... free energy, as some dirty hippy would refer to it, is not feasible. unless you're a plant, obtaining energy from other sources is going to take more work- both in the practical sense and the thermodynamic sense.


also, take into consideration the previously poor countries that are enjoying the oil money: saudi arabia, libya, iran, iraq. OPEC has a lot of something in their hands: oil. if i had a shitload of apples, and everyone needed apples to function, or apple substitutes, but i had my market by the balls for strictly apples, i'd keep selling apples. when my supply of apples began to exhaust, then i'd probably invest in the next big thing.

they are making a killing on oil, pretty much all big profits. i wouldn't stop selling something in the midst of it selling best.

There is a very good reason why "Free energy" is suppressed: it doesn't work. It never has, and probably never will, based on our understanding of thermodynamics.

FE is also a lot like bloodletting in medieval times in that those who believe it are sure as shit that it works despite mountains of evidence that it doesn't. "We just didn't have the machine perfected" "We didn't reduce friction enough" etc. logic sounds a lot like "We couldn't bleed enough of the disease in time" "The evil spirit was too strong, what we did was too little, too late". Expecting different results after trying the same thing is insane.

Ordinarily, this shouldn't be a problem, but when FE'ers start hounding legitimate engineers and scientists or secure resources to build their crazy-ass non-functioning pieces of shit, then it becomes a poison to productive science. Hence the suppression.

>>2653391
you're ignorant of what fe researchers believe, that the laws of thermodynamics only apply in certain cases.

>>2653472

Beliefs have no influence on reality.

>>2653487
god I hate skeptic humor

Solar is free energy, paint your house black and it will be warmer, paint it white and it will be cooler. YEAY free energy!

also if your a fucking hippy buy solar panels and shitloads of batteries. Enjoy a recouping your investment over the next 20 years.

OP HERE
FREE ENERGY SURE IS NOT REFERRING TO SOME PERPETUAL MOBILE
RATHER TO SOME FUSION REACTOR OR WHATEV
GODAMIT PEOPLE YOU STUPID FAGGOTS CALL YOURSELF SCIENTISTS?

>>2653573
they don't even read the article before replying

The conspiracy theorists often seem to overestimate the ability of the conspirators to suppress information.

Free energy is impossible.

Though I do not doubt multi-national oil companies suppress alternative energy research through a wide variety of methods. Either buying up patents, lobbying against subsidies for new technologies, or hostile takeovers of promising 'green' companies, they all result in the hegemony of status quo energy technologies.

Europe was on the eve of shifting his main energy source from fossil fuel to green energy. All the plans were there, it was only a matter of time. Coorperations together with EU would build high voltage transmission lines across the Alboran Sea to import solar power from north-african to europe. Because producing solar power there is way more efficient and pretty close to home.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertec

The only obstacles where european politicians who don`t like the idea of being dependent on other countries for something as vital as energy. Knowing how capitalism works, this obstacle would eventually be overcome because of the good relations between the old Tunisian/Egypt government and western coorperations.

Now that the fussile feul lobby and the arab emirats, with help of using radical islam, foreign spys, and of course the Qatary propoganda machine they successfully managed to ruin relations between all northern african countrys and the oil addicted west. what are our alternatives ?

Maybe when a moderate party is elected yes, but this is for a relatively short term and you`ll never know what the next elections will bring.
The states of Tunisia and Egypt are verry insecure from now on. European politicians will never approve to rely on that.
This oil lobby won`t give us any chanse to work on alternative energy sources until it`s too late.

>>2653596
more skeptic humor

>>2653626
...Hmm.

I'm not going to reply to anyone in particular because that would take forever as you're all being 'slightly obtuse' to quote a thread from last night.

The wikipedia article doesn't do the subject justice either, so I'll try and give a brief overview before I grab some food:

The idea is with current technologies we can generate such ridiculous amounts of energy there would be no reason to pay for it as it is not scarce. Solar power, wind, tidal and wave are all effective, however, geothermal is the most impressive. With spots designated easy access we could potentially power the world 4000 times over (statistics taken from Zeitgeist: Addendum [I have a feeling this is what I'll be attacked on the post - hurr durr RBE faggot space communism ect ect ect]).

However, it is impossible to deny there are vast sources of energy remaining untouched. This energy could be harvested for transport, making oil as a combustion product obsolete (oil companies should focus on the production of plastics).

So yes, there is such thing as 'free' energy but it requires us to take a plunge first. Something we're woefully bad at.

>>2653081
Just to make a point, if you're not trolling you really are a fucking moron. You really think we'll still be on this rock squabbling over oil when the sun runs it's course?

>>2653653
One thing I didn't like about Zeitgeist: Addendum is that it didn't even mention fusion or space-based solar.

>>2653659
Nice ideas but I could hazard a guess to why they're not mentioned.

The entire thing comes off as reasonably far fetched to your average member of the public. The moment you mention near future technologies or anything that involves being in space they tend to dismiss it as sci-fi.

Seems to be a real problem, the self regulating action people have on each other, stopping anyone stepping too far from the norm. Just call them conspiracy theorist, a dreamer, or even a terrorist and ignore their ideas.

>>2653688
>The moment you mention near future technologies or anything that involves being in space they tend to dismiss it as sci-fi.

>>2653696
I don't have a clue what your picture implies, but I'll assume you agree with me and are perturbed with the general short-sightedness of the average human.

>>2653708
I really fucking hate it when I mention something like affordable space travel and a person looks at me like I mentioned time travelling with the Doctor.

>>2653122
I was simply showing that there is no such thing as free energy, I never said we should not use solar energy.

>>2653118
right, its such a long time into the future that I said it is "like free energy" you dumb fuck, lrn2 understand the context of a phrase

why is sci so fucking retarded today?

>>2653199
sometimes a hydrogen atom is just a hydrogen atom

>>2653596
They don't need to though, that is in part the beauty.

Other people do the information suppression. Be it members of the public branding them a conspiracy theorist and this not worth listening to or the peer review process branding certain ideas pipe-dreams, reputation destroying if one was to support them or cite them.

How often does this happen? Very. Countless situations where someone has a radical idea and it's laughed at only 10, 50, 100 years later it's recognised to be the truth. An example would be basic hygiene - the man who first suggested washing hands between deliveries of a baby reduced incidence of postpartum sepsis was laughed out of his job.

Since then nothing has changed. Upset the established order and it will fight back. More often than not the establishment - and not the truth- prevails.

>>2653718
Makes me sad.

>>2653763
Makes me mad.

The US government couldn't even supress wikileaks, Apple (arguably, one of the most controlling corporations going) couldn't suppress details of an upcoming product, details of little or no consequence to the world) do you think anyone could suppress something like this?

>>2653758

Depends what we're talking about though of course.

Like Meyer's water fuel cell machine was reviewed and seen to just be normal electrolysis of water. So of course he was ridiculed for his machine by academics and career scientists.

Cold fusion MIGHT be a better example of ridicule where it might not be deserved, or geothermal energy. Geothermal doesn't get ridiculed, but it doesn't get that much attention. I'm skeptical of its energy output simply because geothermal plants exist, and they aren't completely exceptional. I'd vouch for nuclear fission as an energy source until fusion is mastered.

>>2653653
> Zeitgeist
Stopped reading here

>>2653653
>You really think we'll still be on this rock squabbling over oil when the sun runs it's course?

no, you fucking moron, where in my post did I mention oil? what in the fuck are you reading? I was simply making a statement that there is no such thing as free energy, and that the sun will be around for billions of years therefore it is "like free"

>>2653795
Well that's your problem chump.

>>2653811
Well stop arguing fucking semantics - if it's free for the entire duration of the Earth, that's good enough for now.

>>2653060
>if oil was to be replaced tomorrow probably 3/4 of the world would be unemployed

If this were true, then that would mean that currently 3/4 of the world's labor force is being wasted on pointless busywork. Making jobs obsolete means that that labor can be put to other uses.

>>2653793
all of those are straw men. intentionally or not, homeopathy obscures genuine herbal medicine which is based on supplying minerals etc.

>>2653793
I hear this argument all the time, and its just false. There are millions working in black budget programs, and the thing works fine. You way overestimate how hard is it to keep secrets.

>>2653794
>reviewed
by who?

>>2653889
They couldn't keep nuclear weapon designs secret in the 50s, how the hell is anyone going to manage it now when two people with zero budget can talk completely confidentially from opposite sides of the planet?

>>2653940
1 governments able to keep secrets from each other

2 governments able to keep secrets from their mindless slaves

1 is doubtful, but 2 I'd put money on

>>2653861
if your job is far away then you can't get to it