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/sci/ - Science & Math


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2646610 No.2646610 [Reply] [Original]

My professor claims that there is only one thing that makes us human.

Post your theories as to what you think it is and I'll tell you afterward.

>> No.2646612

Furries.

>> No.2646614

The frontal lobe.

>> No.2646622

>>2646610

dont tell me thumbs or i will slap you through the fibre optic cables

>> No.2646624

Conscience.

>> No.2646626

Arrogance.

>> No.2646629

The genetic sequencing?

>> No.2646631

the ability to troll and get trolled

no other species has been observed to troll the way humans do. trolling is a pleasure that requires great mental capacity to appreciate.

OP is a fag.

>> No.2646632

>>2646622
I'm thinking this also. Mainly because so many non-scientific teachers used to claim this about twenty years ago.

Made me rage hard.

>> No.2646633

Our imagination.

>> No.2646637

Money

>> No.2646638

>>2646626

And if he thinks otherwise i disagree.

>> No.2646639

I'm going with humor, cuz bitches don't know bout my otters.

>> No.2646642
File: 361 KB, 449x593, Beach Love.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2646642

None right so far.

>> No.2646650

Guilt, sympathy.

>> No.2646653

Or ability to travel to space.

>> No.2646658
File: 10 KB, 250x250, year771.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2646658

>>2646653
>to space
>to moon
There, I corrected it for you.

>> No.2646660

46 Chromosomes

>> No.2646665
File: 63 KB, 174x216, Hold.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2646665

I'm looking for something that /no/ other animal possesses.

>>2646653
Other primates have been to space.

>> No.2646669

porn
a superior ability to understand patterns and trends
cars
religion

>> No.2646672

Clue or tell me please, i'm about to crash.

>> No.2646678

The ability to identify ourselves as human.

>> No.2646687

>>2646678

uh dumb cunt,

other animals identify us as humans and themselves as their respective species as well, why do you think your dog isnt trying to have butt secks with you right now?

dumb cunt

>> No.2646692

Disney World?

>> No.2646693

professor of what???

>> No.2646696

BUGATTI VEYRON SUPER SPORT

>> No.2646700

Pets

>> No.2646703

>>2646687
No other animal is able to correctly identify themselves as humans.

>> No.2646705

the dna that is categorized as being the pattern of homo spai8ens sapiens

>> No.2646706

Probably something faggy like feeling hope.

Faggots.

>> No.2646710

Your professor is a dipshit.

>> No.2646713

>>2646610

The ability to abstract.

>> No.2646715

Some kind of higher reasoning faculty, I guess. I mean, other animals have opposable thumbs AND can make tools, so why can't they do more than that?

>> No.2646718

Wii

>> No.2646722

human parents

>> No.2646726

biologists

>> No.2646727

our dna?

>> No.2646729

we have religion (although some animals have it to, religious people don't want to admit it.

>> No.2646730

the ability to jerk off to vids showing guys depositing their semen deep inside girl's bowels

>> No.2646733

I give up.

>> No.2646734

gay pride parades

>> No.2646737

we can go to heaven

>> No.2646739

>>2646696

I second this.

>> No.2646742

The ability to knowingly and willingly act in anti-darwinian ways for greater long-term happiness, basing their behaviour on reason rather than being slaves to the every whim of their emotions.

>> No.2646744

>>2646742

What i'm trying to say is it's not our emotions that make us human (animals have emotions too), it's our ability to over-ride them!

>> No.2646745

ok

>> No.2646748
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2646748

A lot of you are trying too hard.

Think on the level of common sense.

>> No.2646752

Fuck if I know.

>> No.2646758

I really don't care just tell me something so I can get on with my life.

>> No.2646762

creationism

>> No.2646768

I guess I'll just have to die not knowing. Shit sucks but I'm not gonna sit here and play your stupid gaes.

>> No.2646771

interracial relationships

>> No.2646772

im out, if your not telling us, im leaving

>> No.2646775
File: 503 KB, 600x444, Waves of Jelly.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2646775

>>2646772
>>2646768
Don't let the door hit you on the way out, impatient ones.

Hint: It doesn't have to do directly with our physiology.

>> No.2646777

Well thanks for aking y day just a little bit worse. I hope you'rre happy with yourself OP.

>> No.2646780

governments

>> No.2646783

Shared descent from a creature who is not the ancestor of chimpanzees

>> No.2646784

>>2646693
>>2646693
>>2646693
>>2646693
>>2646693
>>2646693
>>2646693
>>2646693
>>2646693
>>2646693


Is this OP? >>2646713

most correct answer so far >>2646722

>> No.2646785

nothing

>> No.2646786

So why exactly does she love you, OP? You're a ugly ginger, just how lucky do you feel that you need to post your pictures here and how is she putting up with that does she think that's cute?

>> No.2646787

the bicameral mind

>> No.2646788

regret
love
hate
embarrassment

>> No.2646790

Looooooooooove

>> No.2646791

>>2646784
actually that answer is the most wrong in itself. if im human because my parents are human, and they're human because their parents are human, etc you end up with humans with unicellular parents.

>> No.2646792

Rationalize

>> No.2646793

>>2646775
Self awareness? The creation of abstractions like morals, the nation-state [imagination/creativity]?

Please tell now.

>> No.2646795

because we call ourselves human?

>> No.2646796

Consciousness, Language, Civilization, Technology, etc.

A lot of shit makes us different than a good majority of animals.

>> No.2646798

clothes
knowledge of death
allergies
science
understanding of mathematics

>> No.2646804

It's because we call ourselves human. Boy is you prof clever. This was fun, thanks for that.

>> No.2646807

I sure hope Op doesn't jump off a bridge either, because op is a wonderful person.

>> No.2646808

>>2646804
i call myself a night elf. am i a night elf now? if not, why?

>> No.2646812

>>2646808
I can't prove you're not. We have no basis of proving anything in this fucked up world. This was so enjoyable op. I hope we can have this thread every day forever.

>> No.2646813

>>2646791
Or you can take the earliest member of Hominini to have no Chimpanzee descendents and define him or her and all his or her descendents as Human.
That is, Cladistics was here, non-monophyletic taxa are losers.

>> No.2646816

professors.

>> No.2646818

>>2646812
>no basis for proving night elves don't exist
God I used to play WoW and you're a fucking moron.

>> No.2646821

>>2646808
No, because I don't call you a night elf. But we're just arguing over semantics, as long as you agree that Birds are dinosaurs and reptiles you can call yourself whatever you want.

>> No.2646825

>>2646791

The question was what makes US human not what our parents human let alone whats makes our most ancient ancestor human (which it isn't because there is no chain all the way to unicellular with the case that both parents were human since at some point humans and Neanderthals were getting it on and producing offspring which would not be able to say both parents were human)

>> No.2646826

>>2646813
But that member would be arbitrary and virtually indistinguishable from their parents or offspring in terms of species.

>> No.2646828
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2646828

>>2646693
>>2646693
>>2646693

Theology

>> No.2646833

>>2646821
What if I don't call you a human? Are you still human? This thread was in reference to traps, homosexuals and other minorities. OP is clever and subtle in influencing people's opinions over the internet. Do not give in to OP or we will stop having awesoe threads such as these. You have been warned.

>> No.2646834
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2646834

Our individual ego.

>> No.2646836

>>2646833
Wooooow......I'm just....is this a troll guys? It's so clever.

>> No.2646840

>>2646808
no, but if something calls himself a night elf, you can be pretty sure its not a talking animal thats been reading tolkien. i'd say its a human, albeit a delusional one.

>> No.2646841

empathy

>> No.2646842

>>2646834

competitive mating rituals for individual gain invalidates your argument

>> No.2646844

>>2646825
well you just answered your own question. its still wrong.

>> No.2646847

OP here, the answer is that humans wipe their asses after they shit! Thanks for playing

>> No.2646848

>>2646836
No its not a troll. This thread was very much appreciated. I get off to the cognitive dissonance of others so when OP makes threads llike these I get a boner. Please never change world or I will not be able to continue to believe that i'm better than you. Also fuck you for sucking me into this thread, faggot.

>> No.2646861

>>2646848
Yes you are clearly a troll who is trying way too hard.

>> No.2646865

>>2646861
I'm just expressing how I feel.

>> No.2646868

>>2646826
Oh sure, if you're interested in paleontology you might want to remove Australopithicines, H. Erectus, and maybe H. Sapiens Neanderthal if you're feeling like a dick, but if you just want a good definition for extant beings then the descendents of the first non-Archaean non-Bacterial non-Plant non-Fungal non-Protozoan non-Poriferan non-Cnidarian non-Protostome non-Echinoderm non-Tunicate non-Cephalochordate non-Myxinoform non-Agnathan non-Chondrichtyan non-Actinopterygian non-Sarcopterygian non-Amphibian non-Reptilian non-Prototherian non-Metatherian non-Atlantogenate non-Laurasiatherian non-Glirid non-Scandentian non-Dermopteran non-Strepsirrhinid non-Tarsiiform non-Platyrrhin non-Catarrhin non-Hylobatid non-Pongin non-Gorillin non-Pan seems a pretty reasonable choice.

>> No.2646874

It's our humanity, isn't it? Isn't it...!?

>> No.2646880

>>2646833
>This thread was in reference to traps, homosexuals and other minorities.
Are you retarded?
>>2646848
>I will not be able to continue to believe that i'm better than you.
I'll take that as a yes.
>>2646848

>> No.2646887

>>2646880
I am whatever you say I am, if I wasn't then why would I say i am? In the paper, the news everyday I am. I dunno it's just the way I am.

>> No.2646888

>>2646833
Yes, I am still a human. I say I am, and pretty much everyone except you agrees, so when I use the term "human" I will generally be understood as referring to a group that does include myself. I may be misunderstood by you, but you're not important enough for me to change my usage. You'll be misunderstood by most people if you don't include me in your use of the term human, and it's up to you to decide whether mutual comprehension is worth changing your word usage.

>> No.2646890

>>2646887
Think of your own shit instead of using Eminem's crap.

>> No.2646893

>>2646888
But you're not human.

>> No.2646896

>>2646893
I'm sorry, you seem to be either confused about a point of fact or using the term "human" in a non-standard manner. Please define the term "human" as you are using it so we can resolve this.

>> No.2646901

>>2646896
I don't think you're human. end of story. You can't convince me otherwise. I don't care what everyone else says. Everyone is human but you.

>> No.2646903

>>2646890
Sorry for making connections with the world around me. I will express myself less eloquently in future in order to be original.

>> No.2646909

>>2646903
>Eminem
>Eloquently
I like Eminem, but no. Just no.

>> No.2646911

>>2646909
That's the way I felt like expressing myself in that moment in time. Cry more, faggot.

>> No.2646919
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2646919

>mfw may area is trolling everyone
Move along people.

>> No.2646923

>>2646919
I'm staying until people stop responding.

>> No.2646928
File: 124 KB, 800x553, Victorian_funnelweb_side.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2646928

>>2646901
You think this spider is human?

>> No.2646932

>>2646928
no

>> No.2646940

>>2646923
AH-HA!

I'll continue to respond until you stop responding!

>> No.2646942

sage

>> No.2646944
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2646944

>>2646932
But you just said everyone was human except me. Do you think I'm that spider, or do you think everyone except me and that spider are human?

Is this flower human? Do you think I'm the flower?

>> No.2646945

>>2646940
ok

>> No.2646946

>>2646944
no

>> No.2646949

>>2646946
No what? No I'm not the spider, no I'm not the flower, or no you don't define Human as meaning the set of all things that are not that particular spider, that particular flower, or me?

>> No.2646952

>>2646949
sure

>> No.2646953

Ability to resist instinct.

>> No.2646955

>>2646953
sorry i must've misplaced mine.

>> No.2646957

Answer is language, as said by Descartes, Pascal and others.

Move along people.

>> No.2646959

>>2646957
yes, let's.

>> No.2646967

LOVE

THE ANSWER IS LOVE

>> No.2646969

>>2646957
Which is dumbass enlightenment era rhetoric.

Many other species have language. Not as refined as our own, but that'd be like saying "animals don't feel emotion, because it's not as refined as human emotion".

>> No.2646974

>>2646952
Okay, now I don't even know whether you define human to include me. You seem to be pretty confused when it comes to the term human, I would suggest you avoid using it until you've worked it out yourself.

>> No.2646975

>>2646969

Descartes and Pascal is pre-enlightement, try again, retard.

Other animals don't have language, so just choke on a cock.

Howling isn't a language. If you want to prove me wrong, publish a Dog grammar.

>> No.2646978

>>2646974
make me

>> No.2646980

>>2646975
Chimps and gorillas have been taught ASL.

>> No.2646983

>>2646980

Still waiting for them to learn Latin or French.
Any ETA on that?

>> No.2646984

It probably something cheesy and stupid that makes you groan at the end. I don't like you OP. Your....stupid.

>> No.2646986

>>2646984
The answer was because we wipe our asses after we shit according to op. prof confirmed for cool guy.

>> No.2646987

>>2646978
I'm just trying to help you. I'm worried that you might end up unable to communicate with others and so have your choices ignored by society. Already you seem to be reduced to sentances of a few words, so you've got to be careful before your wishes are ignored completely.

>> No.2646988

>>2646986

Your professor never read Rabelais then. Confirmed for shit-tier university.

>> No.2646991

>>2646983
Probably when you teach those languages to dyslectics who've undergone laryngotomies.

>> No.2646992

>>2646975
dolphins, whales, bees
fullretard.png

>> No.2646994

human genome

>> No.2646996

>>2646988
Never seen a dog scoot across a carpet, either.

>> No.2646998

>>2646992

They speak Latin then?

Mm'kay.

>> No.2646999

>>2646987
tl;dr

>> No.2647003

>>2646988
this wasn't my thread originally. i just made it my own.

>> No.2647004

Ability to laugh?
Ability to lie?

(Both wrong, but nice cliché...)

>> No.2647009

>>2646610
>>humans = emotional liablities

>> No.2647012
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2647012

>> No.2647015

Our biology. I don't give a fuck what your professor thinks.

>> No.2647016

The ability to think in abstract and theoretical ways; and then putting these theoretical things into practice, creating science and technology.

>> No.2647018

>>2647015
but thats wrong.

>> No.2647022
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2647022

>>2646975

>Other animals don't have language, so just choke on a cock.

>> No.2647024

>>2647022
dude was probably a troll.

>> No.2647025
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2647025

>>2647018
According to you. Which means absolutely nothing to me.

>> No.2647026

Is it the complexity of our minds that us want to pursue something? All chimps want to do is chill and climb stuff.

>> No.2647029

>>2646975

Wait, I didn't actually read your entire post, but
>Howling isn't a language. If you want to prove me wrong, publish a Dog grammar.

You just went above full retard, if that's even possible.

>> No.2647030

>>2647022

They don't have languages, indeed.
At best, they have sketchy means to convey information, based on hormones, body positionning and a selection of growls.

>> No.2647032

>>2647024

Let's not always think that stupidity equals trolling.
Some people just are that stupid, unfortunately.

>> No.2647033

>>2646975
There are actually species of monkeys that have been observed using various calls for certain predators. Separate calls have been observed for airborne and jungle floor predators, and even a specific call for snakes.

>> No.2647034

>>2647029

Sorry if you're wrong, not my fault.

>> No.2647036

humans can be mean, no other animal has ever observed being spiteful or intentionally causing physical distress to another animal other than to eat it.

humans excel at being cruel.

only distinction

>> No.2647039

>>2647036
dude, there actually are monkeys

>> No.2647041

>>2647036
Also false. Humans and animals will use many different means to obtain something they are subjectively motivated by. Animals will rape, murder, pillage in order to get food (wealth), reproductive rights (sex), or societal status (power), humans are no exception to this and do what they do for similar reasons. Stop putting the animal kingdom on some morally pious pedestal.

>> No.2647044

>>2646998
Difference between latin and beespeak is what exactly?
>further proof that /sci/ has a lower IQ than even /b/

>> No.2647045

>>2647036
cats torture mice for hours and don't end up eating them.

>> No.2647046

our DNA is the only thing that makes us human.

>> No.2647047

>>2647036

>no other animal has ever observed being spiteful or intentionally causing physical distress to another animal other than to eat it.

what a load of complete bullshit.

>> No.2647052

>>2647036
Ever watch dolphins? Marine biologists have recorded instances where dolphins were sadistic to other dolphins for the sheer pleasure of it.

All animals can be cruel for pleasure, most just aren't intelligent enough to to recognize the connection between displaced anger and pleasure gained from it.

>> No.2647054

>>2647044

Beespeak has no solid structure.
Else you could write a grammar about it.

>> No.2647060
File: 15 KB, 236x217, dude wat.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2647060

>>2647036

The existance bullying behaviour by dominant animals is a key feature of dominance hierarchies which exist in all social vertebrates.

>> No.2647062

>>2647054
My father was a beekeeper. There is a grammar and structure to their communications. Try looking it up.

And why is this important? Language is simply the means to communicate with another creature, a wolf howling to let other wolves know "this is my turf" is a primitive form of language, and the only difference between it and english is our better developed brains need a more complex language to communicate.

Descartes' views on language have been almost entirely discarded by philosophy, because they were written before science fully recognized animal communication and are now outdated and outright WRONG.

>> No.2647104

>>2647062
This suggests that the earlier discussion of deviance is, apparently, determined by a descriptive fact. It appears that any associated supporting element is unspecified with respect to problems of phonemic and morphological analysis. Clearly, a descriptively adequate grammar cannot be arbitrary in a stipulation to place the constructions into these various categories. It must be emphasized, once again, that a subset of English sentences interesting on quite independent grounds does not affect the structure of the strong generative capacity of the theory. Suppose, for instance, that the descriptive power of the base component delimits the traditional practice of grammarians.

>> No.2647110

>>2647062
True, but no other animal has been found to have a such a deep symbolic relationship with language as humans do. When we hear a specific word it conjures up images and feelings that go beyond mere communication. You see the word Nazi (this example always works best with buzz words like that) and it conjures up images of hate, cruelty and death. Or maybe the exact opposite if you're one of those people. So far, we have no proof that any other animal has such a relationship with it's language.

>> No.2647111

>>2647104
I think my brain just melted...

>> No.2647113

>>2647104
By that criteria, a dozen other things could also be considered "human only", from organized science to use of mechanical engineering.

Also, nice pseudo-intellectualism. Whenever one of my students writes like that, I take 10 points off his grade for attempting to write over my head.

>> No.2647117

Your professor is a retard so it can't be intelligence

>> No.2647121

>>2647110
This post >>2647113
also applies to yours. If complexity is the only criteria for "human only", there is no single behavior that defines humanity.

>> No.2647125

>>2647113
relax ... it was a computer generated text sent as a joke

>> No.2647145

IT'S CLOTHING JACKASSES
GOODNESS YOU GUYS ARE DENSE

>> No.2647149

the human impulse

>> No.2647152

>>2647145
Some species of ants coat themselves in mud constantly to prevent dehydrating in the african heat.

Sure, animals may not spin wool or wear skins, but some animals do wear crude representations of clothing.

>> No.2647154

>>2646994
Only person with the right answer.

>> No.2647157
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2647157

>>2647145

>> No.2647165

>>2647154
Except dozens of people have said the same thing. Not disagreeing with you that he is correct, but you're wrong on him being the only person.

>> No.2647203

4chan

>> No.2647207

DNA

>> No.2647212

We don't follow Natural Selection.
We let gingers live.

>> No.2649684

our genome
all other answers are wrong

>> No.2649704

Quite a lot of things but to pick one main thing that would be:

Our Thumb or our Kinship independent social corporation.

>> No.2649732

Don't feel like reading this shitty thread, but has OP given an answer yet?

>> No.2649753

Intelligence. Simple as that. Without it we'd be acting no different than any other animal. I can't think of a simpler answer.

>> No.2649823

>>2646610
is it hubris?

I bet it is hubris

>> No.2649832

language

>> No.2649833

OP
ANSWER
NOW.

>> No.2649985
File: 375 KB, 480x618, Thousandfold Jelly.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2649985

Hey, just woke up.

The answer is that humans know about and find intrinsic value in the elements. No other creatures weep over diamonds (carbon), travel across continents for silver, and kill for gold. Our entire society is built on the premise that some metals are better than others. To my professor, it's an absurdity that permeates no other species at the social level.

So yes, well done everyone. Some of these answers are great.

>> No.2649988

A butt

>> No.2649991

would sound less glib if you replaced "the elements" with "objects"

>> No.2649997

>>2649985

Lots of birds love shiny things for their nests, how is that any different?

>> No.2650001

>>2649985
Magpies?

>> No.2650011
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2650011

>mfw there are dozens of correct answers from anons and OPs actual answer is wrong

>> No.2650013

>>2649997
>>2650001
Lyrebirds collect very specific objects based on color and texture and decorate their nests with them solely for social reasons.

Your professor is slightly ignorant about the behavior of some rather flashy and exotic birds, but that's okay, concerning most other species, he's kind of correct.

>> No.2650015

>>2649985

Wow OP is a fag. Do you know what it takes for you to learn those things? That something is what truly makes you human not fucking knowing what to learn.

>> No.2650025

they change the world around them to meet their needs

>> No.2650041

>187 posts and 16 image replies omitted
wtf sci WTF?

>> No.2650044

Magpies will put anything shiny in their nests, and make no distinctions about the elements at a social level. Their ability to like "shiny" things is no different than cats who like "soft" things.

>> No.2650047

>>2646610
Your genes.

>> No.2650084
File: 645 KB, 540x708, Costume_Party12.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2650084

>>2650044
This. A lot of you are missing the point.

>> No.2650113

>>2650084

I doubt that OP's answer has anything to do our superiority at all.

I think you are on drugs OP, if not you need to be on drugs.

>> No.2650118

what makes us "human"? the fact that we are. humans are just another species of creatures like any other.

what makes us PEOPLE is a combination of things. it could be boiled down to simply saying 'social creature of sufficiently advanced intellect', or even maybe dropping the 'social' part, that we still don't know (have never encountered any other species of people to compare to).

less basically, it is our foresight, our capability to appreciate causal relations and account for them.

and it is language that makes us more then mere persons, that makes us into civilizations.

>> No.2650121

DNA-Genetics

Anyone who says otherwise is either a spiritual hippy faggot or is overthinking the question.

>> No.2650136

>>2646610
language.

>> No.2650146

>>2650136
>>2650121
>>2650118
>>2650047

These fags need to read the thread.

>> No.2650152

>>2650146
OPs actual explanation is retarded (as i think it was clearly destined to be from the very start). so what?

you need to GTFO.

>> No.2650153

easy, our intelligence/oversized brain

>> No.2650174

religion

>> No.2650179

>>2646610
Our capacity for higher reasoning.

>> No.2650198

Love.

>> No.2650208

>>2649985
This answer fails to go deeper. If you look at WHY humans place value in these things it is for the same base motives that all animals do things. We use these things for wealth and status. Wealth realistically translates into abundant resources such as food, and societal power, both are very common themes in conflict of all species. We're just smart enough to assign value to certain objects are trade them about to get what we want. Furthermore the common theme among these currencies is their appeal to the eye, which falls very much in line with
>>2650044
However, is us taking shiny things then adding an extra value for a social common ground really all that different from us taking shiny things because they're shiny? Realistically that is what we are doing, the social value comes AFTER the fact of shiny.

>> No.2650213

our DNA

>> No.2650217

Cumulative culture.

>> No.2650226

logic.

>> No.2650237
File: 351 KB, 453x589, Nuzzling.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
2650237

>>2650208
>If you look at WHY

But we're not.

>> No.2650373

>>2650237
Well you should be, because that by far is not the most unique thing humans do. Also, if you DO look at why you realize that the purpose of all this is very much in line with most lifeforms. This is like saying "The seahorse is unique because nothing else flicks it's tail the same way in a mating dance!" as apposed to "The seahorse is not unique because tons of creatures have mating dances"

>> No.2650393

concealed ovulation arising autocatalytically alongside bipedalism

no need for a pink target if it can't be seen, therefore men had to embrace more potent forms of communication in order to find the most efficient time to stick cock in pussy, thus manifesting automated feedback system that led to intelligence

>> No.2651406

>>2650393
your big words conceal a very silly theory. people fuck all the time, period, and ESPECIALLY in ancient times, would have sought out (and in less ancient times, continuing to today, did/do, for truefact) the infertile periods of the menstrual cycle.

it also puts far too much emphasis on very basic interactions, as pressures for the development of more advanced communication. fucking is the one thing all creatures (barring a few oddballs) excel at. you don't need language for it.