/sci/ - Science & Math

If god exists where did he come from?

Sage because this is a tired old troll topic that doesn't deserve a bump.

>>2645695
if he is all powerful couldn't he have created himself.

>>2645688

Something that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
e.g. No proof for God means he doesn't exist.

by default god does not exist until someone proves he exists. The rational position is to stay sceptical, especially when here is no evidence of god whatsoever, as is currently the case.

the burden of proof is on the believers, not on the sceptics

>>2645731
>>2645740
which is more intuitive and common sense. a God creating the universe or the universe just popping into existence from nothing.
by default i go with the simples explanation until a better one is provided.

>>2645757
The simplest explanation is that a magic llama created the universe from a peanut. Ergo it's true.

>>2645757
that isn't a simpler explanation than the big bang.

it requires god either popping into existence from nothing (equally unlikely or even more unlikely) or else god magically creating himself, which defies basic logic.

Buddhism

The belief that everything is made of nothing, but everything together is something and when you die you become nothing which is really everything and you follow the teachings of a man who starved himself and thus became really fat to prove that nothing equals everything which is every nothing that makes something.

Makes perfect sense

>>2645757
Except that its pure opinion which is the simpler explanation.
And if you were raised from birth to have a certain opinion, I suppose its natural to stick with it.

For myself I honestly believe the universe coming from nothing is the more simple one.

Awesome argument OP, i'm converting to christianism now.

>>2645688

>you can't mix parts in a bag, shake it ,throw it in the air ,catch it and expect a laptop computer to come out.

you can't prove that one won't

>>2645768
it is as equally valid as any other claim, but it is obvious sarcastic .
science doesn't have all the answers and neither does religion. so they are both equal.

why not skip a step?

>>2645782
try the experiment in a lab

>>2645780
op never claimed to be christian. what is with all the hating on christians. what did they do to you?

>>2645688

0/10 troll

but ill talk on the subject for the rest of you anyway.

to believe either way is unscientific.

to believe without doubt there is a god is unscientific

to believe without doubt that there is no god is also unscientific

it is only scientific to think of god as schrodinger's cat.

you cannot say god does not exist.
- you cannot prove that

you cannot say god probably does not exist
- to derive the probability of something, one must calculate and take into account every variable factor and outcome (impossible without perfect knowledge)

what you can say is: i think god does not exist.

but what most people fail to realise is that by "thinking" god does not exist, it is as baseless as "thinking" that god exists.

both are without supporting evidence and both require faith.

youre all idiots.

>>2645770

dear god...
every fucking time...
when will you people get that logic and reason don't work on religious people, ignore them, and let them have their little meaningless victory?

fucking hell, we need to make any post about religion an instant ban in /sci/

i'm tired of these retarded fuck-up fail trolls and their shitmongering

>>2645688

uh dumbass, how do you think laptops are made if not that way?

>>2645797

push creationism in public schools for starters.

Also oppose abortion and stem cell research.

>>2645783
>science doesn't have all the answers and neither does religion. so they are both equal.

You just went full retard they are not equal.

One of them is constantly standing for truth and seeking out answers. even though it doesnt have them all yet, its TRYING at least.

The other is all like "lol we are right because we are right" And denies any truth that contradicts it.

equal my fucking ass.

>>2645793
atheists don't KNOW that god isn't real. but they stay sceptical until evidence comes in. it is the rational position. they are both atheist AND agnostic.

they are not mutually exclusive

>>2645757
First of all the Christian God is not "the simplest explanation", it is far from it.
If you truly are as rational and logical as you portray yourself you wouldn't need to jump to conclusions, you would be a to suspend any judgement until such a time as sufficient evidence for a particular theory comes along.
Clearly you already believe in a Christian God and are looking for reasons to do so, i.e. trying to affirm your own beliefs rather than exploring all possibilities objectively and equally, letting the evidence speak for itself and making a decision on that basis.

>>2645803
fucking this!

i have about six images i want to post at once, but this sums it up best
<<<

>>2645807

uh dumbassssss

all agnostics are atheists,

MOST atheists are agnostic, but NOT ALL atheists are agnostic.

if i have a holy book that tells me that GOD DOES NOT EXIST and i take that as evidence, then i will be an atheist but not an agnostic. dumb cunt.

atheism without agnosticism is as senseless as deism.

>>2645817

Agreed, you can be atheist, but still be unscientific and illogical about your reasons for being an atheist. And that really is the worst kind, giving us all a bad name without them even knowing it.

>>2645708
How the fuck can you create yourself BEFORE you exist? 2/10

>>2645817
>atheism without agnosticism is as senseless as deism.

thus atheism is equal to deism the OP's oringinal point.

I'm pretty sure that the big bang theory is that all of the matter (and a shitload of energy or potential energy) in the universe was in one spot. It then expanded (maybe the potential energy became energy to make this happen?)

So, the matter always existed, but not as it is today.

>>2645817
no, not all agnostics are atheists.

one whol believes in god, but is not certain he exists is still an agnostic, but not an atheist

>come to /sci/ after not visiting it for a month
>a religion thread on the first page
>full of ek's posts
>leave /sci/ forever

>>2645808
>Clearly you already believe in a Christian God
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

>>2645834
and_nothing_of_value_was_lost.jpg

>>2645829

WRONG

OP said >Deism=Atheism =Agnosticism

The correct equations are:

Deism - agnosticism = Atheism - agnosticism

Deism + agnosticism > Atheism - agnosticism

Atheism + agnosticism > Deism - agnosticism

>>2645833
Agnosticism is still not a belief in a god, therefore it's a form of atheism.

>>2645841

>Deism - agnosticism = Atheism - agnosticism

Deism = Atheism?

>>2645845
agnosticism is not a position of a belief, it is a position of lacking knowledge of the absoulte truth of the subject, as we all do.
that is why belief or lack of belief one way or the other is required.

>>2645851
The guy who coined the term agnostic didn't consider himself a theist or an atheist

>>2645849

Essentially, yes.

= with regard to logic.

They are both beliefs and opinions, and they are all equal in that none can be proven or disproven.

>>2645851
so all of them can't be proven true so the OP is right.

Deism=Atheism =Agnosticism

While simple answers are the best, when the most simple explaination doesn't do the job, further evidence needs to be called in. "God did it" doesn't explain anything. The simplest answer isn't always valid.

>>2645857
You either believe something or you don't. Just because you don't know if something is true or not does not mean that you don't have a belief attributed to it. If you believe in a god/gods, you're a theist. If you don't, you're an atheist. End of story. The fact that "The guy who coined the term agnostic didn't consider himself a theist or an atheist" has no bearing on whether he actually WAS one of the two. He most certainly was. He either believed, or he did not.

>ITT: Idiots who think that atheism proposes a claim that there is no god when in reality it's the state of holding no beliefs regarding deities.

>>2645857
i dont care, he was still an atheist.
this.
fucking.
image. >>2645807

>>2645878
no
dead wrong.
and you are missing the point badly!

>>2645851
Agnostic atheist masterrace.

Skeptical, but logical.

>>2645891
fuck yeah!

and i''m always open to new evidence if any of you theistfags actually ever have anything new to bring to the table...

>>2645898
A bit relate: I don't get why some theists think that atheists are clammed up and won't accept anything related to religion. If god was proven true, then sure I'd probably believe in him. For the time being though, I do not as there is no proof.

In reality, it's theists who are clamming up. They've attached to a particular theology or idea and even when they're given contradicting evidence or are asked for proof, they see it as an attack on their beliefs.

Why so touchy, theists?

>you can't mix parts in a bag, shake it ,throw it in the air ,catch it and expect a laptop computer to come out.
Learn to quantum mechanics.

Yes, you can

I once had a dream where I bought a rocket ship ( one of the old vertical ones they always had in really old movies) from a old midget with no legs. Just as I took it into space I woke up :(

>>2645927
>If god was proven true, then sure I'd probably believe in him.

lol, belief wouldnt be required at all.
you would KNOW that god was real if he was proven to be.

>>2645934
Oops, my bad.

Also brings up an interesting point, theists claiming atheists have faith, or atheism requires as much faith as theism. What's up with that?

>>2645878
ah, why is Deism = the other two?

Deists believe in God, they just believe he has to resort to magical bullshit to do anything like the biblical guy does.

>>2645934
Pretty much this. Just because he may or may not exist doesn't mean I have to believe in him.

>>2645936
atheism is a lack of faith.
atheism is a belief as much as 'not collecting stamps' is a hobby.

>>2645898

so what would youall say if you met a woman who told you she has hear God speak to her personally?

>>2645949
Schizophrenia? Hallucination?

>>2645949
real people do make such claims, and are deluded.

in fact if i recall correctly george bush said that god told him to wage war on Iraq...erm, citation needed. but ive heard it.
anyone confirm?

>>2645949

Anecdotal stories are not evidence.

>>2645829
QUOTE "which is more intuitive and common sense. a God creating the universe or the universe just popping into existence from nothing.
by default i go with the simples explanation until a better one is provided." UNQUOTE
I made no assumptions about his belief in God buddy, I did make the assumption that he believes in a Christian God, but in regards to my argument whatever God he does believe in is entirely irrelevant, my point still stands.
Think before you post please.

>>2645786
The Pythagoreans had won

>>2645955
i know one who has.

>>2645688
If a Goddess or God doesn't/didn't exist were did the universe come from?
> it always was
I know it's hard for a thiest to contemplate eternity haha not!!! but people tend to think of events as a line with a genesis and termination , exspecially in the western world e.g. Christians, Jews, ect

>>2645963
You have quotation marks already. I don't understand.

>>2645979
Try harder, its not very difficult to understand.