/sci/ - Science & Math

I could implant a single electrode in my brain and it would give me more pleasure than all the exploring, fighting, and woman fucking I could do in ten thousand lifetimes. Eat shit, you jungle dwelling primitivist retard.

you won't be missed

The thing about modern society is that it frees up your time to learn things like jungle survival skills.

>>2627703
I'm glad to see you've learned to be polite.

>>2627710
there is a more profound truth in this post than in any other i have read.

Derp?

This is like the antithesis of /sci/. We're all about technology and transhumanism. Please gtfo.

>>2627728
Verily.

>>2627716

I don't need to be polite, you bug eating troglodyte throwback. I have a wire in my brain providing me with pleasure you can only imagine, and if you threaten my electricity supply with a club or spear or something equally in keeping with your flea eating, dirt bathing, ape mimicry, I can shoot you with my precision drilled machine crafted Colt 1911 and post it on you tube.

>>2627752
The wire must not be working well if you have to insult anonymous people on the internet to entertain yourself.

>>Does anyone else feel this way?

You're in excellent company.

I read "back to the jungle movement" and was immediately drawn in. I have not even read all of you post yet and I know exactly what you mean. I have felt this way for so long, and I almost lost all hope in mankind until I saw your post.

>Does anyone else feel this way? Can we start a "back to the jungle" movement?

Sir, you have something called "luddism".

In modern society you feel unable to keep up with an accelerating pace of technological progress. Not your fault, we were built for the jungle so our "genetic pace" is always the same while the technological pace is accelerating. So you want to go back to childhood, because riding horses and fucking all night and hunting game is apparently better than a dry city even though your life expectancy is of thirty years, and nothing new ever happens.

See: PeTA, degrowth, Avatar, Greenpeace, luddism.

So yes what the gentleman said is correct: >>2627734

But don't worry, there's still time to stop voting Republican.

>>2627695
i'd rather go back to the temperate forests

jungles are unpleasant places

>>2627773
Are you trying to suggest that I'm crazy because the Unabomber happened to share my opinion?

>>2627783
I've never voted republican. Why did you make that assumption?

>>2627785

No, sir, you are just a luddite.

Pic related.

The life of stone age hunter gatherers is not as exciting a you think it is

>>2627793
i'm a selective luddite

pick best of modern tech, retreat to forests

>>2627788

>I've never voted republican. Why did you make that assumption?

Oh, it's just a joke. That's the thing, you see; luddites come from both sides: You have the people who think wealth will "trickle down" so they funnel money upwards, until it does indeed trickle down in the form of piss from the twenty-five-kilometer-tall Man. The Randian heroes, the creationists, the backwards, pants-on-head retarded, global-warming-is-a-lie nutjobs who would love to shut down the Internet and go back to 1921.

Then there's the liberal luddites, the New Age, obnoxious, crystal-snorting, quantum-physics-is-magic, What the Bleep do we Know?-watching, Deepak-Chopra reading shitheads who chose the Tracer Tong ending in Deus Ex.

>>2627800
How do you know this? How long did you spend as a hunter/gatherer?

>>2627805

That would be neo-luddism, which is even sadder.

And what most people seem to be leaning towards.

>>2627815

Our ancestors built cities and tools voluntarily. They were not commanded to do so by aliens or something. There's a reason we chose automation and the accelerando route, not the luddite, everything-is-just-the-same-always route.

>>2627695
that's what the mythopoetic men's movement is all about

getting back to (male) primal instincts

>>2627695
Here is your average jungle dweller

>>2627813
Neither of those match me, though you seem to do a good job of exaggerating both sides to the point of making them look ridiculous.

>>2627695
The question is: If you wnat adventure and stuff, why go "back to the jungle" when you can opt for outer space?

>>2627813
>>Then there's the liberal luddites, the New Age, obnoxious,
>>crystal-snorting, quantum-physics-is-magic, What the Bleep do
>>we Know?-watching, Deepak-Chopra reading shitheads who
>>chose the Tracer Tong ending in Deus Ex.

Those aren't Luddites. Those are hippies.

>>2627818
>sad because you don't like it

not proposing it as a way to structure society. just as my lifestyle choice. and i want western society there to dip my toe into when i wish.

only kids turn "i like to live this way" inot "we all should live this way"

>>2627800
how is fighting a wild boar not exciting. best video game imo

>>2627823

what's wrong with their dicks?

>>2627823
I don't see anything wrong with that, other than tucking one's dick into a waistband.

>>2627818
Not all ancestors did that. Some cultures stayed fairly constant until other cultures forced them to change. What you've mentioned is not a universal trend, just the history of your particular heritage.

>>2627831

>Those aren't Luddites. Those are hippies.

Potato, potatoe: An environmentalist blue-cat-alien utopia rising out of the ashes of the industrialized world is pig-disgusting luddism.

>>2627837

>not proposing it as a way to structure society. just as my lifestyle choice. and i want western society there to dip my toe into when i wish.

Well thank Christ.

>>2627850

>Some cultures stayed fairly constant until other cultures forced them to change

Did they look back?

>>2627845
they are uncircumcised and their foreskin is under their belts

>>2627856
Many do. For example, I'm from a white heritage and I'm looking back right now.

>>2627869

As in, large populations large and willing enough to go to New Zealand and build a village?

>>2627783
I tend to think of technology and science as a kind of adventure, an exploration of what we can make or know, but I agree that modern society on a day-to-day basis fucking sucks.

>>2627879
I know there have been movements like that in the past, though I don't have a list of names offhand. However, it's irrelevant. The truth value of a statement is not affected by how many people believe it. If you think a more primitive life sucks, prove it.

Why do we need to have ONLY modernism and ONLY primal-ism

why cant we have a bit of both... like a deathly vacation in the wilderness or something

freedom means freedom to be a hippy if you want

>>2627879
lots of people set up alternative mini societies

whole websites dedicated to it

Funny how everybody is accusing OP of being a luddite. I completely know how he feels, but I'm also a complete technophile.

Maybe that's why I'm so fascinated with space and space settlements. I could merge both that primal urge to fight with my love of modern technology. I'd love nothing more than to settle a new world with technology at my side.

>>2627904

>If you think a more primitive life sucks, prove it.

The - uh - life expectancy of people in the neolithic never going above 40 or 50 years? The fact that they had absolutely no treatment for anything? No means to satisfy natural monkey curiosity?

>>2627926
The life expectancy of people in the past is heavily affected by high infant mortality rates. If you exclude those from the calculations, then people who make it pas the age of 2 regularly live to be 60 or 70.

>>2627917

Pic related.

Happiest place in the world.

>>2627936

Explain.

>>2627695
Mankind seems to think it has outgrown its need for nature, when in actuality we would die without it. I find this saddening because this is not how we should behave.

Also, It appears that this thread is recieving hate from the hapless /sci/fags who would become a meal (or have a break down from lack of mmorpg playing) within a day.

I want to find some way for like-minded people to discuss this and possibly create plans for a colony. All I know is that this world of plasticity and bullshit that we have built for ourselves is no good for me.

you think this place sucks because you never been in the jungle

Theres a reason we built ourselves this place. Its better

Get off your fat ass and run a few miles... you see this world is not so empty

>>2627926
>The - uh - life expectancy of people in the neolithic never going above 40 or 50 years?

actually, the average life expectancy was a ripe old 20 years old in the neolithic.

>>2627953
honestly bro i know where your coming from. its just that my crave for curiosity is greater than my crave for nature

>>2627953

>I want to find some way for like-minded people to discuss this and possibly create plans for a colony. All I know is that this world of plasticity and bullshit that we have built for ourselves is no good for me.

You say that again after you have merged with the glorious diamondoid.

We have technology that we can use to co-exist with nature, without unnecessary hardships. Wild nature is chock full of resources, we just need to remove currency from the picture.

>>2627825
Agreed.

>>2627969
>>2627944
Go to this page:
http://www.arthurhu.com/index/lifeexpe.htm
And read the last two paragraphs at the very bottom. Life expectancy of bushmen.

>>2627826
derp herp that right! i forgot how easily i can just fly my rocket into space! derp

>explore, fight things, and do women

Russian and American men do this OP.

Most western European men just like to read books, and look at the sky through telescopes or whatever the fuck they like to do.

>>2628024

Well I'll be damned, but of course, modern medicine and a healthy lifestyle (Civilization does not require being a fatass) can top that. I'm still impressed at how the tribesmen lived longer than people in the 1840's, then again, we can all agree that it was before the Industrial Revolution. People shat in sheds during those times. They had no phones or anything.

>>2627958
Right, instead you will see 5 mc'donalds, 2 starbucks, and enough advert billboards to build your own commune. Maybe a small wodded area.... in a fucking park.

>>2628061

>Right, instead you will see 5 mc'donalds, 2 starbucks, and enough advert billboards to build your own commune. Maybe a small wodded area.... in a fucking park.

Well there's your problem, you live in the BACKWOODS YET CORPORATE NIGHTMARE that is America.

>>2628061
Yeah, really. I go running and I just see other houses. Whoop de doo.

>>2628067
Now it just sounds like you're agreeing with my point.

>>2628072

No, I'm implying there are countries outside America. You know, cities. Not all of them are cratered third world wastelands, and they are most certainly not going to be covered in an ad-lined geodesic.

>>2628086
There are other cultures, and they aren't all happy either. Did you know Japan is facing a suicide epidemic among middle-class salarymen?

>>2628067
So are you trying to tell me that eastern Europe has wilderness that is dense enough to actually survive off of?

>>2628098
It certainly did at one point, before modern civilization.

>>2628094

>Did you know Japan is facing a suicide epidemic among middle-class salarymen?

I know. They will have to deal with it or get VR'd to neckbeardation.

>>2628098

You mean for the whole of the population to go back to childhood, or for just a few people? In the latter case just build an Earthship.

>>2628105
HOW DID YOU EVER ACQUIRE SUCH INFORMATION!?!?
"Has" =/= "had"

Luckily, we have books and videogames.

>>2628168
Some people do not feel that they are a satisfying replacement.

Civilization's only worth is the development of immortality. Until then, it's worthless shit. After that, it's obsolete.

>>2628174

>For the first time in all the centuries of Mankind, the future looks like a promise rather than vain hope
>Let's go back to the jungle

>>2628192
narcist, yet no appreciation for power?

>>2628174
Just wait a few years for virtual reality then.

>>2628134
A small group of 10 to 15 people.
I highly doubt the woods could support much more than 20.
And what is an Earthship?

Yeah, civilization has been a pretty failure. However it does seem to be in decline, so if you live long enough you will probably get some space to yourself.

>>2628193
>For the first time in all the centuries of Mankind, the future looks like a promise rather than vain hope

Please explain this statement. We have a massive rich/poor gap, lots of unemployed/homeless people and beggars, a health and obesity crisis, and the environment is being destroyed at an alarming rate. Whether or not you care about the environment, if it's completely destroyed, then we die, too. Things are only looking good for the rich.

>>2628207

>I highly doubt the woods could support much more than 20.

You said you were a selective luddite. Where's the tech you brought along? If you're going to go back to our evolutionary childhood, don't jump around wearing loincloth, our new full woods real state package has got your luddite ass covered!

This fancy-ass Earthship right here is built out of 100% Gaia-friendly materials, recycled beer bottles, and even comes with a fancy geodesic dome in which to grow marijuana.

Internet connection included.

But seriously now, it's basically a home away from cities: No pollution or ads. Give me a good reason why you wouldn't live here rather than full-on forests.

>>2628221
>Give me a good reason why you wouldn't live here rather than full-on forests.

Forests are awesome. Houses are the same every day.

Go life in the ghetto or in prison

>>2628221
That is absolutely an improvement over my current suburban situation, no doubt. But I'd rather live in the woods for several reasons, including the sense of adventure. In the woods there's something to explore.

>>2628217

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo
thenanoage.com
molecularassembler.com
nextbigfuture.com

Obviously the current economic protocol is unsustainable, but that solves itself. It's called "spiking the contradictions". It's a very nice Marxist thing you can see in your everyday life, namely, what Julian Assange does when he leaks documents: He makes the gov'ment more paranoid, closer. That way the system collapses on itself, giving rise to the glorious Diamond Age era and what have you.

Seriously: The world is not a linnear-growth one. Things change, technologies come and go, and societies adapt to it, but if you want society to change, you have to introduce a technology that causes a paradigm shift [see: industrial revolution, steam engine, differential engine, vacuum tubes, computers, the Internet].

Which is why luddism is basically a way for the quitters to abandon all hope that anything will ever change.

>>2628233
This. Help out the third world don't just be a frivolous faggot prancing around the woods...

>>2628236
>luddism

You keep using that word. It does not mean what you think it means.

>>2628203
You disgust me.

>>2628251
in the woods*

>>2628198

Power is worthless. Once you're playing the game on cheatmode like humanity is, it detracts from the enjoyment of life since you can't possibly lose. The greatest accomplishments mean nothing.

Only in an environment that is out of our control to a degree, and where we stand to lose something significant to us does anything begin to matter.

if you think people didn't used to live absolutely miserable lives of poverty, famine, disease, brutal violence and humilation, and repeated rape, you're delusional.

this is a psychological projection of people who view the world as their childhood and want to move back in with their parents after being in the harsh world.

>>2628266
Actually it's your belief that is delusional according to modern anthropological interactions with tribal cultures.

>>2628255

I think I do. Going off to the woods is luddite behaviour and contributes nothing to progress. It's giving up on humanity, shouting silly pretensions about how we're so evil for fucking up the climate and pretending that going back to an earlier state from which we voluntarily dragged ourselves out of, yes, that's luddism: After all we have accomplished, you want to return. For what? So we have to do it all over again. You people disgust me. You have no sense of greater purpose for Mankind.

OP, this topic is precisely why I want technology to advance as far as it possibly can.

If humanity does experience "the singularity," our spare time (near-infinite lifespan, fuck yeah), is drastically increased, and we are able to plug ourselves into the matrix.

Imagine being able to experience all of these things you describe, without the death and disease, through VIRTUAL REALITY.

Holy shit, I cannot wait. An unbounded life of fantastical adventure, half life, half video game.

>>2628266
You may be confusing other cultures with poor people living in slums. Consider the San people of the Kalahari desert. They are a contemporary hunting-gathering culture. Among the San, the average person only has to work 2 hours a day, on average. People under 18 do not work at all. In one day, a woman can gather enough food to feed her family for three days.

The San people were once studied by anthropologists during the worst month of the worst year any of them could remember, in terms of food supply. Yet even at this time, there were mongongo nuts rotting on the ground around them because there was more than enough food. They are not starving and miserable. Of course, this is all changing as other cultures get in the way and make it impossible for them to live a traditional lifestyle, but that's far from the point. The old way of life works.

>>2628217
I agree, all I see is that mankind is hurtling towards self-destruction. And that is not going to change as long as there is money to be made by the scum at the top.

Y'all niggas gonna get tired and hungry and bored wandering around in the forest.

Go do it for a weekend or so and we'll welcome you back to the bland yet secure arms of modern life, and we'll just forget all the idealistic faggotry you spouted off before prancing into the forest.

>>2628288
>Contributes nothing to progress
What you define as progress is subjective. Also, while on this topic, what have you done to contribute to progress? At least I'm not getting in the way.

>>2628290

>The old way of life works.

A population just happened to live in an area of natural abundance which lead to their conservatism and inability to change.

Bro tip: It's not the same everywhere. In some places, people actually have to earn their food. It does not grow in the sufficient density, nor does it have the sufficient energy density in itself, to support a population. Just because a bunch of guys have it easy and can thus continue the "old way of life" doesn't mean the entire human population can make the switch. In before "That's why we got to kill 90% of the population lololo xD"

>>2628291

>mankind is hurtling towards self-destruction

You'd love that. You'd love to have the privilege to live through humanity's end, much like how the other doomsday nutjobs think the end of the world will come in their lifetime. So they have to privilege to be alive during the big event. It's not going to happen. The world is not going to hell, you have Internet, you should be able to check the facts for yourselves: Child mortality, birth rates, child labour and poverty are dropping worldwide. Among other things. If you were able to crawl out of the fatalist reality the media imparts you, you would see that.

>>2628221
Because it is not a forest.

>>2628328
>A population just happened to live in an area of natural abundance which lead to their conservatism and inability to change.

Yeah, duh. If a place can't support life then go to another place that does. There are such places. Your response does not disprove my point.

>>2628308

I, for one, am a third world underage ban. But I spend about half of my free time studying, on the Kindle I bought the other day, I threw all the programming and science textbooks (Textbooks, not pop-sci) on it, read all I can, and I'm going to try to get into the US and study Aerospace Engineering. A job at SpaceX would be ideal, but sitting in front of a CAD program designing aerodynamic car tires wouldn't be too bad.

But I want to have the knowledge to, say, build a rocket: That's more important than actually building one, because if I have the knowledge, I can contribute to the Open Space Movement. Ever heard of that video explaining the behavioural psych behind motivation, that makes free and open-source projects succeed? That's what I want to see happening, in space, for all Mankind.

>>2627695
That was the biggest load of fucking pseudo-intellectual bullshit I've ever heard.

And besides that, the jungle isn't what you're picturing it to be. You'll die at the age of 30. So fuck off to the jungle for all I care.

>>2628342
So you've done nothing, so far. Excellent.

>>2628339

>If a place can't support life then go to another place that does. There are such places.

Finite resources, how do they work? What you described is a nomadic lifestyle, now I ask you this: What technology can nomads develop, if they never build anything heavier than what they can carry?

>>2628349
>You'll die at the age of 30

See:
>>2627936
>>2628024

>>2628342
>underageb&
I KNEW IT
Anyway, are you South American?

>>2628288
I have no beef with technology, however I do with modern society.

>>2628353

Call them vain promises all you want, but at least aspiring to make a contribution to Humanity is better than going off to the woods because society is too stressing.

>>2628354
Why do they need to develop technology? If they are happy, that's more important than making ipods. You seem to assume that somehow technology is inherently good and we're failing if we don't pursue it. That's just an assumption.

>>2628359

Finally another HUMANITY FUCK YEAH person on my side, Christ.

>>2628288
How have you helped mankind?

>>2628368

To improve their quality of life, uncover the secrets of the universe, advance to the next step in evolution, win the race of information density?

Here's the thing: Everyone likes life. Everyone likes watching people happy.

But in 10,000 years, the warm period (We don't live between two ice ages, we just happen to live inside a "warm period" that takes place in the middle of an ice age) ends, it's back to the ice age. Let your nomads deal with that.

Then, after a mere 100,000 years, the Sun's temperature increases a bit. Just a bit.

Homeostasis ends. There won't be time for evolution to adapt: The plants will just die. Let's see your nomands engineering the plants to survive them.

After a considerably longer amount of time, the Sun goes nova. Taking everything away. That's the natural outcome of things.

The "artificial" outcome is to tighten our belts and actually do something: Bring life and sentient life to every asteroid, moon, planet, comet and worldlet in the galaxy, in the local cluster. I, for one, would like to see the Cosmos turned to a garden.

But if you want the "natural" outcome, a period of relative technological quietness that ends suddenly before you're ready for it, and then it's all over, well it's your decision.

Don't you want anything grand out of your lives? Or do you think the sheer volume of humanity makes you feel insignificant?

>>2628328
Why focus our efforts on working with nature in order to have a natural abundance everywhere?

>>2628388

Sorry, I don't understand. Different wording please?

>>2628386
>grand out of your lives

You're throwing around very loaded words and assumptions. I want to be happy, as do most people. I have proposed a way to attain that. Winning the "race of information density" does not necessarily achieve that.

>>2628396

Why deny that same happiness to 10⁴⁶ potential human beings?*

* Yes that's the actual number

>>2628370
See, an excellent life requires exertion, and does not consist in amusement. And for an emokid work is anathema, because sweat makes the cheap mascara and cheap white powder run, ruining their whole day.

But too tired to insult the little depressedfags more.

Good night CCM, keep fighting the Good Fight.

>>2628398
>Why deny that same happiness to 10⁴⁶ potential human beings?*

Please explain:
a) how I am denying anything to anyone
b) why I am even supposed to do that.

The point of this thread was to express that modern society is less satisfying than the old way. You have tried to turn it into some sort of discussion about duty and how it's somehow my duty to contribute to technological development and I'm "giving up" by choosing an alternative.

In any case, if potential people in the future want happiness, they can do what I'm doing, too. If you want to argue against my original point, prove that my proposed lifestyle is less happy. I don't care if it contributes to less technological development, as that's an arbitrary goal.

>>2628354
Geothermal energy is infinite.

>>2628370
Nope, just another tripfag.

>>2628428

lolwut

>>2628428
mars would like to speak with you
not infinite, but definitely sufficient

http://www.thevenusproject.com/

>>2628426

>In any case, if potential people in the future want happiness, they can do what I'm doing, too. If you want to argue against my original point, prove that my proposed lifestyle is less happy. I don't care if it contributes to less technological development, as that's an arbitrary goal.

There won't be any potential future if everyone chooses that path.

Jesus Christ. People here are saying humanity is destroying itself, but this is exactly what you are proposing: Luddism. Plain, clear-cut luddism. Abandoning the cities for what you project to be a better existance in the woods, living in villages, fucking Tracer Tong mode.

Don't you think life should be more than sitting by the river contemplating your bellybutton? I'm all up for happiness, sure, but it does not require us to abandon all we have done!

We have come so far, through all the bottlenecks, two technological singularities, we have split the atom, traveled to other worlds, began interpreting a mere glimpse of what's out there, and you want to turn back now? Because the idle life is "happier"? Lest anybody work or do anything!

Enjoy your society of leisure. You can have it all you want. But stay out of the way of progress, and if you treehouse is in a piece of land we need to build something important, we'll burn it. Since you insist that places with abundance are everywhere, you wouldn't have problems with a nomadic life.

It's luddism, any way you put it. You are just giving up because of a little stress because you can't bear the thought of not being able to fully catch up with progress.

>>2628428

And the resources are?

>>2628386
We are insignificant.
mankind<universe

>>2628452
CCM, how do you feel about a progress + leisure system such as the TRS?

Why not* focus our efforts on working with nature in order to have a natural abundance everywhere? derp

>>2628452
>and if you treehouse is in a piece of land we need to build something important, we'll burn it
So you're suggesting tyranny. You'll come and take my land because you have the power to do so, and justify it with your own subjective ideology.

Again, you're assuming I'm turning my back on something good. What's good is subjective. If someone is absolutely ecstatic about contemplating their bellybutton, then they can do it all day long. Most people aren't that happy.

>>2627695
i'm with you op, like isn't it our right to say, fuck you government, i'm american and i want nothing to do with your shithole failure of a system and society, give me back the land that is part of my country, i want to live in the woods without your fucking help, cause i don't need it. lets start a movement, i'm with you

>>2628386
>Homeostasis ends. There won't be time for evolution to adapt: The plants will just die.

Someone doesn't know how the world works. According to your theory of "sudden change fucks everything up", a large percentage of us shouldn't be here, since the Black Plague would've killed everyone in Europe.

>>2628481
We need a resource based economy.

>>2628461

I'm actually more up for the Croft (Wikipedia it) system in my WIP.

Basically, when every village can create it's own space program, centralized nations fragment to anarchist-style village-kind-of-things: Most of the time cities are conserved, with several crofts coexisting with each other.

Other times, like in the Ring of Fire, a set of self-replicating ocean colonies created when Mad Scientist-in-the-story took hold of an assembler, it's a single group making facilities for people to inhabit, like a real state company. Only that they leave certain things to maintain some degree of control (controling the automation of vehicles). Since it's a nanotech-based society, there is very little physical privacy outside of basic human politesse, so people turn to Internet for such things. There still is quite a bit of progress, most blueprints for the assemblers are made by the open source folk, capitalism did not end in any sort of "glorious post-scarcity apotheosis", and the Open Space Movement, led by a telomere-rebuilt Jason Marsh, owns Star City (A Lagrange-5 point orbital), Earthport Tower (A 2.5 km tall diamondoid/fullerene/aerogel tower that shoots rockets out of a ram-accelerator) and most orbitals. et cetera

The luddites are called barbarians, and are basically the people who are not affiliated to any croft listed in the Compact. Some of them camp in the overpasses of highways untouched for decades, others build small villages, etc.: But no matter how luddite they may be, they all have molecular assemblers and computers. They are too important technologies to leave behind.

>>2628467

Wasn't that what I was advocating? See:

>>2628386

In the movie Surrogates, there was a small group of rednecks who refused to go along with this "teknowledgy" business, and they were sequestered to a reservation in a separate part of the city.

>>2628519
Actually that sounds a lot like what it would end up being. TRS is a pre-assembler system designed to change with the times/technologies.

>>2628530

As long as it's a highly-distributed, descentralized system, it's all good.

You know I'm a subversive like that.

everyone disagreeing with OP is trying to appear more "enlightened" and intelligent, when in reality they are disobeying their natural urges.

>>2628546
It is, largely. There is a technocratic/meritocratic government to stop stupid coups by some faggot aspiring to be a dictator. Also molecular assemblers most likely won't be invented before 2050.

>>2628595

>Also molecular assemblers most likely won't be invented before 2050.

I know. That's why I wait, and plan, and ponder everything.

Moreover, the technology to go full posthuman probably won't come within the first half of this century. So, instead of waiting like a nutjob who thinks everything is going to be served to him in a silver platter, I try to be the best person I can be. After all, that should make posthumanity easier to achieve, right?

I know this isn't really science related, but we don't have a /phil/ and /b/ isn't really good at intelligent discussion.

It seems like most alien want to do the same thing: explore, fight things, and abduct humans. Most video games, books, and movies are all expressions of some part of this. Little aliens fly around in the galaxies pretending to fight monsters all the time. Then they grow up and make deals with US government.

It seems like this is a natural way of life that is very satisfying but somehow we've become detached from it. I'm sitting on my ship in Uranus right now and there is nowhere to explore, no beasts to kill. There are certainly women around, though artificial inception is its own topic. This sucks. There's really no action or adventure left.

Admittedly, modern society does come with certain perks. Widely available fuel and technology come to mind, as does the protection of living away from the blackholes and its demons. But modern life is totally unsatisfying, to the point that we spend all of our free time trying to return to that image of adventure and action.

Why did we ever leave the Sun? This place fucking sucks. If I had the survival skills to go live in the Sun I would leave immediately. Modern society is a failure. We've traded safety for happiness.

Does anyone else feel this way? Can we start a "back to the Sun" movement?

>>2628519
/v/

Everyone seems to have latched to the jungle thing, but if you look behind that its a yearning for adventure. The natural instinct of man to explore (the same drive that pushes us to invent) and test your might (and mind) against the universe. There is nothing luddite about that feeling. I love me some techology, but I agree with OP at the same time.

pic for attention

>>2628342 I'm going to try to get into the US and study Aerospace Engineering. A job at SpaceX would be ideal,
>>2628342 Third world
>>2628342 SpaceX

>>To conform to U.S. Government space technology export regulations, SpaceX hires only U.S. citizens and U.S. Permanent Residents.

lol

>>2628666
I think it means that he needs to apply to be a US citizen and get accepted. That's not impossible to do.

>>2628677

It's not easy either.

Without a phd, visa backlog is
>>Skilled workers, professionals, and other workers 40,000 7–9 years

+ You need to live there 5 years before you're able to apply for permanent citizenship.

op there are still places on earth man as not set off let.

like deep in the canadain rockies for one. quit being a whinnying faggot and go explore shit

Its quite simple.
we continue modernism, we fall face first into the future.
Hoever we also restart roman style games.
anyone over 18 who wishes to ca have the chance to be picked to compete in a battle to the death.
It would take place in an abandoned city, over grown, sky scapers, you need to forage for food.
Last survivor claims a prize.
Everyone gets a chance to work out their primitize urdges.
And it will be awesome to watch.

>>2628737
You seem to be entirely misinterpreting the OP

>>2628718

Well at least I aspire to do something instead of the silly luddite OP and his associated nutjobs who shouldn't be on /sci/ in the first plaec.

>>2628291
It isn't mankind destroying itself, man will still be here after humanity collapses. Humans have seen it happen before.
To remain human or play to the demands humanity legistlates the world stage to behave?

>>2628780
So you mean an end to this current socialogical structure?

>>2628666

666GET
Devilpony has spoken.

>>2628803
I am asking, stop being so nobley obediant to language saying remaining as the body concieved isn't worth surviving for the lifetime serving it's own purpose holding the species within the eternity of nows results folding back into themselves.

I feel like I want Colonel (or any other namefag on /sci/ for that matter) to become some sort of famous areospace engineer or astronomer.

>>2628386

>>But in 10,000 years, the warm period (We don't live between two ice ages, we just happen to live inside a "warm period" that takes place in the middle of an ice age) ends, it's back to the ice age. Let your nomads deal with that.

There's ample evidence to suggest that they dealt with it for over 200,000 years. Hunter-gatherer society has proven itself to be fantastically successful. It is in fact our agricultural society that stands to be threatened by a change in climate, since it requires very special environments.

>>Then, after a mere 100,000 years, the Sun's temperature increases a bit. Just a bit. Homeostasis ends. There won't be time for evolution to adapt: The plants will just die. Let's see your nomands engineering the plants to survive them.

Try 500,000,000 years, pessimistically. The sun could keep providing the proper amount of light for 800,000,000 years more.
One way or another, man will never live to see more then a tiny fraction of that future. And whatever life exists then won't be able to adapt.

>>2628579

>implying that obeying natural urges is in any way a good thing.

Complete obidiance to natural urges is complete slavery. Slavery to your genes. Person who mindlesly pursues these urges is basicly a robot, obeying the instructions their genes have programmed.

Only way to be free from this slavery is to carefully analyse every, urge, feeling and emotion and evaluate theri effect and usefulnes for yourself. You should embrace those urges that benefit you, and supres those that are detrimental.

For example: There is no need to fight against the urge to eat, because it benefits you by remainding you that your body needs fuel. Compare this to the urge to mate, wich, in my opinion is very detrimental to you, because it is basically your genes manipulating you to spread themselves. This doesn't benefit you in any way. Your genes pass on to the next generation, while you are left to die and rot. What good doest this to do you, you still die. And in humans this manipulation consist of more than just mating, after the ofspring is born, your genes manipulate you to take care of this helples parasite, essentually making you a servant for the next vessel of the genes. Again, I must ask, how does this benefit you? All the war and fuzzy feelings people get when they are in love, have children, ect. are just hormonal manipulation by your genes.

cont.

>>2630622

This genetic slavery is ancient, encoded in the flesh of all living creatures. The ability to realise this and fight against it is the privlidge of humanity. As long as biologial flesh chains us to our genes, we shal be enslaved. True freedom comes from abolishment of flesh. Luckily, humanity might be able to escape their biologial prisons within this century, even though luddites and zealots, will certainly try to prevent our accension to freedom.

While we wait for the wheels of technology to turn, only thing people who see this slavery and wish to opose it, can do is to resist the urges that enslave us as best as one can.

>inb4 autist, necbeard,retard ect, ect. by people who lack reading comprehension or are otherwise unable to respond without adhominem

>>2630631

>virgin detected

Aaaaaaand now you are mad!

>>2628756
OP said, and quote.
>Most men want to do the same thing: explore, fight things, and do women.

They would be exploring completely new land (it would be fenced off to humanity and only open once a year), fighting both eachother and wild animals, as for the women- winners will pretty much be drowning in pussy (or cock, if they swing that way).

>>2630654

nope.jpg

You just responded exactly I predicted. Feeling kinda neat because of that.

ITT: People who think humans are biologically adapted to living in jungles and not savannas.

>>2630545

>Try 500,000,000 years, pessimistically. The sun could keep providing the proper amount of light for 800,000,000 years more.

Five billion years for Nova, a hundred thousand for the end of homeostasis.

So yeah, you're wrong. I mean, Anders Sandberg should know.

I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL OP.

>>2630631

the struggle to free myself from restraint becomes my very shackles.

so you give up your nature in order to enslave yourself to the ideal of technological progress? doesn't sound wise to me.

I hate how the technologists are all like >HURR WE HAVE THE BEST ANSWERS FOR ALL HUMANITY AND ANYONE WHO DOESN"T AGREE WITH US IS A LUDDITE WHO SHOULD BE KILLED FOR HOLDING BACK THE ALMIGHTY PROGRESS"

seriously don't you see how your dogma has limited you? fuck

>>2630801

>seriously don't you see how your dogma has limited you? fuck
>limited

Pic related, it's your beloved future.

>>2627695
>Widely available food and medicine
Sir, we obviously don't live in the same world

>>2630846

Moreover, it's funny you should say that: Because transhumanists don't claim to have all the answers, yet luddites are even less: They have no answers except a cop out "back to childhood" shit and the destruction of the means to actually, rationally obtain answers.

>Can we start a "back to the jungle" movement?
Not anymore
I spent 30 years living like you say, hunting my own food, gathering wood to heat me during winter or to protect me during rainy nights
Shit was great and I would love to do it again
Unfortunately, it's probably not possible anymore.
When I started during the 70's it was relatively easy, I could eat every days without any problem and I had many time to paint or meet people
When I stopped 6 years ago it was almost impossible, after 30 years of experience I had great difficulty to find a meal every two days and the changes in humans attitudes made some people a fucking predator for people like me
This world is sick, humans slowly kills our planet and themselves

>>2630846
beautiful biodiversity

>>2630846
I would love to see such a world !!

>>2630726

http://www.thespacenews.com/newsadmin/articles/357/freeze-fry-or-dry-how-long-has-the-earth-got

Scroll down to the bottom. Then go read anything else on the subject.

We have hundreds of millions of years left. I have absolutely no idea where you're getting this 100,000 year estimate from.

>>2628386
>Then, after a mere 100,000 years, the Sun's temperature increases a bit. Just a bit.

>Homeostasis ends. There won't be time for evolution to adapt: The plants will just die. Let's see your nomands engineering the plants to survive them

disregarding your choice of a number there, I don't understand why you think that the average temperature of the planet changing will cause some kind of mass extinction of plant-life. Global climate has changed before, to much greater degrees than "just a bit", and, obviously, life has survived quite well

>>2630903

>disregarding your choice of a number there, I don't understand why you think that the average temperature of the planet changing will cause some kind of mass extinction of plant-life. Global climate has changed before, to much greater degrees than "just a bit", and, obviously, life has survived quite well

Life is adaptable, but there's a limit for everything.

>We have hundreds of millions of years left. I have absolutely no idea where you're getting this 100,000 year estimate from.

>n a few hundred million years the increasing heat overcomes the homeostasis of the biosphere and it largely dies out, leaving a Venus-like world of heavy smog and gravel. In a few billion years the sun grows into a red giant and engulfs the inner system. What is eventually left is either a frozen husk of slag orbiting a white dwarf or just a hint of extra lithium in the spectrum of the planetary nebula around it.

I was wrong, disregard me. Now not even I know where I got that number.

>>2630882

>This world is sick, humans slowly kills our planet and themselves

And living in the woods is the solution? Stopping things on the current tracks, on the pretension that it's going to get worse? You know there are a lot of like-minded people working for a better future, not everyone is a "hurr Howard Roarke is mai husbandu" nutcase who values individual gain over all of Mankind.

We'll solve it, just like we solved "overpopulation". Parasitic consumption is unsustainable and it will fall apart. Pic related, it's how people think of problems. You're not the only one who wants things to change.

>>2630887
>>2630886

Trolls, nothing to see here.

>>2630801


"I hate how the technologists are all like >HURR WE HAVE THE BEST ANSWERS FOR ALL HUMANITY AND ANYONE WHO DOESN"T AGREE WITH US IS A LUDDITE WHO SHOULD BE KILLED FOR HOLDING BACK THE ALMIGHTY PROGRESS"

You got it all wrong. Technologists don't want to kill people who don't agree with them. People who don't want to use technology are allowed to to make that descision.

It is the ludite camp, where the threats are coming from. This is extremely prominent when talking about the issue of transhumanism. There is very hostile opposition against the transhumanism in the luddist camp. They even labeled it "the most dangerous idea of this century".

These people don't just refuse to use this hypotethical technology, they want to deny it from EVERYBODY. They literally don't want it to ever come in to existance. They think they have the right to determine what technology other people are allowed to use. They are no better than religious fundies.

You know why they are so opposed to this technology? It is because they know what it's potentials are, and they are afraid, so very afraid. They know that once this tech hits the market, they start becoming disadvantaged if they don't embrace it. They are atached to their faulty flesh and they refuse upgrade it, and they know that in order for them to survive in the future, everybody else has to have the same faulty flesh.

cont.
>>2631303

These people seek to confine all of humanity in our biologial prisons. Doom us to stagnate and die. They are actively trying to prevent us from reaching our full potential, and in doing that, they are dooming us to extinction.

It is ironic that the people who claim to be protecting life and natural humanity, are also, altough indirectly, advocating for our extinction. Because that is what will wait us if we refuse to merge ourseves with technology. The universe is hostile to organic life, so in order for us to thrive, we need to become inorganic.

I want to see humanity outliving our planet, our sun, our galaxy, even our universe! Becoming truly immortal! People who think like OP, and seek to force their views on otheres, want us to eventually die. They are enemies of humanity.

>>2631032
>Life is adaptable, but there's a limit for everything.
right, but so far its' been observed that life can survive a whole lot more than "just a bit" of global climate change

so far, life has survived every punch the universe has thrown at it. Of course it wouldn't survive a supernova, black hole, or if the sun died out, but that's not what you suggested. The mean temperature of the planet rising "just a bit" won't be the end of life forever, it will just change it.

>>2630801

If I have to choose between being human chained to code that I did not design or giving up my humanity and be chained t oideology I aprove of, the humanity shall go.

If I have to be inhuman to be free, so be it.

>>2631303
>You know why they are so opposed to this technology? It is because they know what it's potentials are, and they are afraid, so very afraid. They know that once this tech hits the market, they start becoming disadvantaged if they don't embrace it. They are atached to their faulty flesh and they refuse upgrade it, and they know that in order for them to survive in the future, everybody else has to have the same faulty flesh.

Nice strawman. I dislike luddites, but the reasons they oppose transhumanism is because of a silly concept of right and wrong mingled with "it's not natural".

They don't think far enough into the future to worry about becoming biologically obsolete. They're just convinced we shouldn't deviate away from what they consider "human".

>>2631334
Expanding on that, the vast majority of luddites oppose technology because they see it as a curse that makes people "less human". So understandably, transhumanism would be seen as the most evil of evil concepts.

>>2631334

Ah, of course, I should have remembered that their opposition wasn't logical. I was aplying motivations that makes sence to people who don't make sence. I apoligice for this obivious mistake.

>>2631303
>Technologists don't want to kill people who don't agree with them.

Then what is this:

>>2628452
>But stay out of the way of progress, and if you treehouse is in a piece of land we need to build something important, we'll burn it.

?

>>2630846
That looks absolutely beautiful to me.

>>2631303
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the idea of a heliocentric solar system at first believed to be heresy?

I agree with the premise of OP's suggestion. I think it's the biggest cause of crime and anti-social behaviour. I am pleased to see combat sports growing, I am sure they help to offset this effect. But I dont believe we have the political will to revert. And I'm not sure that'd be great either. Read Brave New World?

This is all thanks to Women's rights and PTA groups.

>>2627695
>Traded safety for happiness
If I had children I would make that trade in a nanosecond.

Humanity is a stepping stone on the stairs to something bigger.

Luddites are afraid of heights.

Sciencefags put too much faith in the wheel.

And there is no wheelchair accessible ramp.

You're both morons.

>>2631678
Well said. Do tell more.

>>2631659
truth, see image its related. The church, the superpower of the time, even denied the existence of zero, because if they accepted the void, they would also have to accept the infinite. A big no no to them at the time and they dragged their feet on this topic for centuries.

And to >>2631308
>I want to see humanity outliving our planet, our sun, our galaxy, even our universe!

Earthbound human beings are certainly not the only organisms in the universe that run the OS called humanity. Its akin to thinking we are the only life in the universe

Simply put, we are not that special. The universes main goal is to preserve and distribute information, and a prime method of this is redundancy

Don't mind me, just being more awesome that either of you pansies will ever be.

>>2631390

I did not write that, so I can't talk for the anon who did, but if I was in a situation where I wanted to build something important on land where someone lived, I would try to negotiate first, and only if it failed, I would use coersion.

>>2631706
so what, you're trying to pretend that is somehow better than what the other guy said?

either you respect people's rights or you don't

clearly neither of you do

>ITT: Colonel Coffee Mug

Do you ever stop or sleep? Because it seems that you don't.

I do feel exactly the same way, but here's the catch. I'm not a male.

>>2631693
>Earthbound human beings are certainly not the only organisms in the universe that run the OS called humanity. Its akin to thinking we are the only life in the universe

>Simply put, we are not that special. The universes main goal is to preserve and distribute information, and a prime method of this is redundancy

Could you elaborate this. I don't really see how it realates to my post. I did not claim humans are in some objective way special.

>>2631710

If you're in a place that's special for someone else, and aren't willing to negotiate towards a solution that works for both of you, getting there first isn't enough to give you more of a right to control the area.

Go back to the jungle, enjoy dying from parasites. You fag. The only reason we're not extinct yet is because of civilisation.

>>2631710

Yes, slightly as I would at least give the poor fella who lives on that land a change to move out. Also, NEGOTIATION. I could offer him another pach of land, maybe even a slightly bigger one, if the thing I want to build is important enough and needs to be built on that exact location. If the owner is unreasonable, I have no other choice to force him out, but I still wouldn't kill him.

>>2631727
oh yea, that makes sense, even tho tribes in every jungle on the planet have lived continuously without civilization since the dawn of humanity. your totally right tho. and totally not your an idiot.

>>2631732
willing to use force to take what you want=not respecting other person's rights

no matter what superficial politicking you slap on it

>>2631690 Right, like I'm going to singlehandedly predict the future of earth-based sapience on 4chan. I suppose I could say a few things, however.

Disregarding luddites, because it's obvious they aren't even trying to go anywhere, the realm of science is becoming less and less imaginitive every day. Psychology and pharmacology, for example, exist to serve and cater to humans in their current state. Are you sad? Here, try this to revert to your natural balance. Manic? Here, this will help restore order. It all serves to revert the subject in question to its 'natural' state. Sounds awfully similar to the luddite way of thinking, does it not?

Whereas, while there are obvious dangers in such drugs, medicine tends to villainize things that might one day improve the human condition. Steroids? Terrible. Dangerous. But does that mean they cannot be improved upon? It's obvious that anything that could make a human smarter is off the market, because radically intelligent people are difficult to control. Before you say "Yeah, the Illuminati is keeping us down!" ask yourself, what would happen if OP here, and all his friends, decided to take Super Pill 97 and become superintelligent? They might see the err of their ways. Or, and perhaps more likely, they would set out to fufill their goals with disasterous consequences. After all, just because you can make a bomb doesn't mean you have the wisdom to know when not to use it. However, the same goes for all of you, not just the luddites.

From what I've seen, science has become a servile profession. Did we really 'need' to travel to the moon? No. Flying was useful, so it's no surprise that we're still churning out new forms of air travel. Space? We don't 'need' it yet, and it is put on the backburner repeatedly.

No longer does science dare to ask, "What if? Could we? Is it possible?" Humans are afraid to lose humanity perhaps? I don't know. While science should serve us, I don't believe that should be its only purpose.

>>2631715
My point is that humanity runs deeper than human beings, or people. Much like the OS for mineral, or plant, or animal, or god even is reproduced over and over again.

Time is only part of the equation. Our, humanities perspective on time is extremely skewed. Outlast would imply that there needs to be a beginning and an end to everything. This is a construct of human beings and is not necessarily how the universe works. Much like how our puny minds and mouths cannot communicate, or even call upon the "gods".

Hope this helps clarify my position on the matter, I do not try to insult or belittle anyone. There is a place, where we are all brothers, its just not here.

>>2631690 Right, like I'm going to singlehandedly predict the future of earth-based sapience on 4chan. I suppose I could say a few things, however.

Disregarding luddites, because it's obvious they aren't even trying to go anywhere, the realm of science is becoming less and less imaginitive every day. Psychology and pharmacology, for example, exist to serve and cater to humans in their current state. Are you sad? Here, try this to revert to your natural balance. Manic? Here, this will help restore order. It all serves to revert the subject in question to its 'natural' state. Sounds awfully similar to the luddite way of thinking, does it not?

Whereas, while there are obvious dangers in such drugs, medicine tends to villainize things that might one day improve the human condition. Steroids? Terrible. Dangerous. But does that mean they cannot be improved upon? It's obvious that anything that could make a human smarter is off the market, because radically intelligent people are difficult to control. Before you say "Yeah, the Illuminati is keeping us down!" ask yourself, what would happen if OP here, and all his friends, decided to take Super Pill 97 and become superintelligent? They might see the err of their ways. Or, and perhaps more likely, they would set out to fufill their goals with disasterous consequences. After all, just because you can make a bomb doesn't mean you have the wisdom to know when not to use it.

Back on topic, science has become a servile profession. Did we really 'need' to travel to the moon? No. Flying was useful, so it's no surprise that we're still churning out new forms of air travel. Space? We don't 'need' it yet, and it is put on the backburner repeatedly.

No longer does science dare to ask, "What if? Could we? Is it possible?" Humans are afraid to lose humanity. Perhaps with good reason.

>>2631736

If we all lived that way we could as well be counted as extinct, as could every other spcecies on this planet without the capability to spread to other planets. Because any species, no mater how long it survives on this planet, will eventually die when the sun goes out.

Humans are the only species currently wich has even the potential to spread to other worlds, because of that, we have the possibility to outlive earth and even our sun. We are the only species cabable of spreading earth bound life acros the cosmos, and in doing so, saving other species from extinction. We are the only hope earthly life has to survive, and that my friends, makes us the most important species on this pittiful rock.

>>2631758

>humanity runs deeper than human beings, or people

Nope, that's exactly how deep it goes.

>mfw luddites

sad beings who romanticize primitiveness.

>>2631774
>Humans are the only species currently wich has even the potential to spread to other worlds
No, we're not. You're disregarding bacteria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panspermia

>>2631749

So, your argument is, that no matter what he is offered in exainge for his land, he has the right to refuse. Even if the land could be massively improved, by for example building a power plant there that could produce valuable nergy to the local communites. Or if the land has valuable and rare minerals useful for making for example efficient solar panels, that could reduce emmisions and produce huge ammounts of power, this one as hat in his tree house still has the right to deny others acces to this land.

Can't you see how reatrde that sounds?

>>2631710

Fine jeez I went a little full psycho back there, but it was because all these postmodern faggots were cheering for humanity's destruction.

>>2631822

Panspermia is too dependant on just pure luck to be an efficent way of sprading life. And even then, it is only capable of transporting microbes.

We on the other hand, can plan on theoretically even build ships capable of transporting us, and our technology to other worlds. With our knowledge, we could seed countles worlds with more life than just some random bacteria.

>>2631822
not to mention fungus...both of which are far better adapted/evolved for space travel. Humans are fragile

So how would you all feel if several millions of years down the line Humans turned out to be the only intelligent species in the universe? What kind of effect do you think it would have on you, as well as humanity as a whole?

/lit/erate reporting in, I enjoy lurking /sci/ for inspiration.

>>2631877
It would be unlikely that humanity would find itself to be the only species in the universe, because there would always be the "next galaxy over"

We would have the technology to make ourselves earthships, even though it would not be efficient or cheap

The solution is to become Space Marines and conquer space.

>>2627695

No. I like focusing the objective of my life on more important things than survival.