/sci/ - Science & Math

It means that your brain cells are fucked up and fire randomly, making you think that you've experienced something relevant. It's just drugs, you retard.

It means you're a gullible moron. Go back to /x/.

>>2591573
>>2591579
And you guys have experienced DMT?

http://www.globalone.tv/group/quantumquest/forum/topics/is-the-universe-a-holographic

>>2591592
Yes. And LSD. And mescaline. Now leave.

>>2591592

I havn't yet experienced schizophrenia but I am fairly sure that when somebody with the disease reports that they are certain that they are a member of royalty when in reality they are a toothless fucking tramp, I feel perfectly qualified to dismiss their claims as insubstantial and likely false.

The same to your drug induced mysticism.

>>2591551
It means that whatever created us is more powerful and more ancient than anything we could ever put our finger to. To me, the trip experience is simply an experience of enhanced reality. It's a story that has yet to be told and will never again be told after. It's there to remind us of the mystery that is life.

>>2591573
> i am so smart look at me spreading my opinions to everyone

>>2591639

I had a friend who tried telling me he knew the meaning of life but it couldn't explained without LSD, then he continued to berate me for not doing it with him when I told him he was being a moron for thinking that his tiny brain could contain the "truth" or "point" of everything, when in an uncaring universe, there is no "truth" or "point".

God I fucking hate hippies so much.

>>2591666
Your hate has manifested as satan trips.

>>2591666
Wow you so don't fucking get it, dude.

mathfag here, you might remember me from the recent "ask a mathfag on amphetamine anything" thread:
i've done LSD, 'shrooms and MDMA amongst other things. all of them felt like really strong chemicals messing up my brain...nothing more than that. having religious visions or other such nonsense really just comes from your predisposition of already believing or being interested in such things...all of the above drugs make you more sensitive to details and your own thoughts, i think that explkains quite nicely why one hears of so many LSD/DMT visions and shit. remember, anyone sitting with the tripping person in the same room will be bored and just witness someone acting unimaginably retarded. still, all those drugs are quite fun and if taken in moderation can be a very nice experience that you'll remember forever.

Then what is the purpose of our conscious/being self aware?

>>2591674
> the life experience is completely logical, let's just make up some shitty excuse why things work the way they do and move on with our "REAL" lives because that's way more important than learning the great mysteries

>having religious visions or other such nonsense really just comes from your predisposition of already believing or being interested in such things
A skeptic won't see things on a DMT trip?

>>2591670
>>2591672

No, it's you fucking morons that don't "get" it. You've been tricked by your own mind into believing what you experienced was important.

It's amazing how forceful and ignorant morons who think they've had some sort of universal or godly experience on drugs are.

Get over yourselves.

>>2591689

There is no "purpose"-it's a result other factors. It's an illusion.

You really think humanity has some grand purpose in the scheme of everything?

Hint: The universe has no will, purpose or goal: It simply is.

>>2591674

yep, you're right. i mustva been predisposed to see the floors bubble up

>>2591712
cosmic troll

>>2591708

>couldn't explained without LSD

Couldn't convey his message in words. You think everything can be described in language? He wanted you to experience something with him. A feeling.

>I told him he was being a moron for thinking that his tiny brain could contain the "truth" or "point" of everything

I doubt that's what he meant. The beauty of psychedelia is that you see that you're both nothing and everything. Drugs don't reveal anything. They just change your perspective.

MFW people keep responding into /x/ thread

i don't like geting high i feel sick and scared. i see no positive effect to do it what so ever.

also enjoy your damaged brain nerves

>>2591721

That's not my point. My point is he wouldn't even bother listening to anything I had to say concerning brain functions or other factors, and simply kept telling me that "No, fuck you, you can't understand, you're a faggot." (No, really.) He wouldn't bother listening to any other possibilities, and dared to call me the close-minded one, amidst a ton of other obnoxious insults because he was too fucking stupid.

It's the most pompous bullshit I've ever heard, and a big part of the reason I'm no longer in contact with this dumbass.

>>2591730
Any actual evidence that the drugs mentioned in this thread can cause that sort of damage? (As opposed to average natural rates of neuron death.)

I'm aware of some other drugs being capable of harming one's brain, but I never heard of anything like that about LSD and DMT, on the contrary, just about everything I've read about LSD points that it's perfectly safe, with the exception of 2 things: flashbacks in some people and of course, if you do anything stupid while you're high (without supervision).

>>2591738
you should have made him over dose once he got high.

>>2591742

There's even less actual evidence (Read: Absolutely none) supporting the notion that LSD connects you to a gigantic, god-like collective consciousness, but that seems to have been swept under the rug in this shitty thread.

>>2591592

fuck hes got us guys that disproves us right there

captcha: poincaré odsur

fuck yeah /sci/ captchas

>>2591751
DMT not LSD brah

ITT: op already conviced himself to the answer to his question, and getting butthurt when we disagree with him

ITT: op already conviced himself to the answer to his question, and getting butthurt when we disagree with him

>I'm left wondering if there IS a collective consciousness or if it's all an illusion

concrete as fuck, right?

>>2591757

Any hallucinogenic drug. It's doing the same fucking thing-altering your state-of-mind and making you experience things that aren't real.

Don't bring philosophy into a science board, you fucking dolt. I don't want your next post to be "BUT WHAT IS REAL MAN, LIKE, HOW CAN WE DEFINE WHAT IS REAL BRO?"

>>2591769
Okay but DMT is already inside us. Why?

I read the spirit molecule and it had no insight whatsoever
It was just about trip reports and the lengthy processes he had to undergo to, to convince government bureaucracies
I can't believe the author is a doctor with a Phd

>>2591769
>Any hallucinogenic drug. It's doing the same fucking thing
>Any hallucinogenic drug. It's doing the same fucking thing
>Any hallucinogenic drug. It's doing the same fucking thing
lawl.

What I believe is that you may have genuinely experienced a change of consciousness - a type of consciousness that most people don't experience.
I think we still have a lot to learn about consciousness and we should stay open-minded.

>>2591783

Okay, show me one hallucinogenic drug that doesn't affect the brain.

>>2591799
i wont talk with a layman like yourself.
You think all commonly called hallucinogens work in the same way?
Fuck you man.

I hear alcoholics feel a pleasant state of bliss when drunk. It sort of allows them to be free and happy with their life. Everyone should drink alcohol and get wasted erryday.

>>2591592
>You can't criticize it unless you have experienced it yourself.
Cool science, bro.

Seriously, take it to /x/. They'll welcome you with open arms.

>>2591799
have you tried psychadelics, brah?

>>2591824

not the same guy, but I can tell you he's right.

you really can't talk shit about it untill you've seen it yourself. It changes everything

>>2591751
I never said anything like that, although I suppose some people in this thread may have claimed some things like that. I tend to think the mind arises out of the brain and that's it, however I do think that using drugs to have unique phenomenal experiences is fine (as long as the drugs don't cause any real damage, and you don't get addicted to them).

>>2591810

You're a moron who's struggling to dodge the original point by nitpicking.

Go back to /x/. I don't think you know what a "layman" is.

>What does the DMT trip mean?

If you're too stupid to figure out it means nothing, then you belong back with the sky fairy worshipers.

>>2591836
no. I have done almost every psychoactive substance out there, and it's not a "religious experience" it's just your brain glitching out, and you convincing yourself that it means something. I have hallucinated on drugs, but that's just what hallucinogens do, not a collective consciousness or similar bullshit

>>2591836
>you really can't talk shit about it untill you've seen it yourself. It changes everything
Yeah, and what I can tell you is that personal anecdotes are worth fuck all in a scientific discussion, which is why I'm telling you (and the OP) to take this shit to a different board. There's nothing to scientifically evaluate here, if all you got is "dude bro you gotta try it yourself to understand it, otherwise its 2deep4u bro dude bro".

>>2591862
>no. I have done almost every psychoactive substance out there
stopped reading here.

This thread:

>>2591890
>doesn't read people's posts
>wants to have a "discussion"
>>>/x/

>and you convincing yourself that it means something

er, then doesn't it mean something? isn't your SUBJECTIVE perception of reality altered?

As someone with a fair amount of hallucinogenic drug experience, you're a moron if you think any of the visons/feelings you experience mean anything after the trip. Even DURING a trip, I remain aware that whatever is happening is due to chemicals in my brain causing it to function differently. It's a fun ride, but tripping is in no way indicative of some hidden reality.

fucking hippies

Hallucinogens can completely change how you think and can take your train of thought down a path that isn't possible in your wildest dreams.

While it obviously has no effect on the physical world surrounding you it tickles the very nature of your consciousness.

There is definitely something going on but science is much too primitive to even approach understanding it. This explains all of the butthurt above me.

>>2591983
>>2591983
>>2591983
>>2591983
http://vimeo.com/15206169
watch it.

posting this on /sci/ was a silly idea,
should have posted it with some open minded scientists, not arrogant nerds who think they know everything.

>>2592028

kaay

I've done dmt before. I doubt most people posting in this thread can say the same.

How can you criticize an experiment if you haven't replicate it yourself, especially something so subjective such as hallucinogen?

First, don't get fool into thinking that it connects you into some cosmic consciousness.
But I'm not going to downplay how power dmt is. Most of these guys think all hallucinogen are the same.
But they're not.

I'll tell you what I got from it.
-First, it's obviously very very fun.
-Second, before dmt and salvia, I definitely never realize the brain can do that. Even if you just told me, it's impossible to imagine unless you experience it yourself.
-Third, it definitely tickles your consciousness. Even now, years after the experience, sometimes I feel like I'm on the edge of it. That feeling, like your consciousness is not real, not absolute like most people believe.
-Changed my personality permanently.

It's pretty much it, I don't do psychedelics anymore.

>>2592286
I, for one, agree with you. But, as Terence McKenna once said, our culture is afraid of madness.

>>2591983
>There is definitely something going on but science is much too primitive to even approach understanding it. This explains all of the butthurt above me.
>>>/x/

>>2592286
>How can you criticize an experiment if you haven't replicate it yourself, especially something so subjective such as hallucinogen?
Well, one could point out that what you did doesn't actually qualify as a scientific experiment. You got high in an uncontrolled environment. Worst methodology ever.

>>2592286
I want to elaborate on the third point.

A lot of religious people believe in a soul, most of /sci/ obviously does not.
But that doesn't matter because you still obviously act like you believe in it. Like that "I" is concrete, I AM.
So when someone criticize, insult or reject "YOU". You become angry, your ego gets bruised.

Now the eerie thing with DMT (and mushrooms too, if you OD), is you kinda catch a glimpse of the mechanism behind how this "I" is formed.

Your consciousness becomes fragmented, because obviously, it was never whole to begin with. I really began to feel like a collection of neurons experiencing reality.

So now, whenever someone insults "me", my ego doesn't get bruised, because I have no ego.

It doesn't mean "I" have low confidence, low self-esteem, etc., it means I have "no" confidence, no self-esteem, nothing.

How can you insult a collection of atoms and molecules?

As such, I never feel impressed, annoyed, angry, jealous, etc. The only I feel anymore is fear, excitement and happiness.
Somethings are encoded so deep that it's impossible to root out. Self-preservation for example.

>>2592331
- when you take drugs like ecstasy, you get high
- take cocaine, heroin, speed, whatever, and you're high as a motherfucker

But when you take psychedelics, man ... that's no high that's a fucking alice land, im not even joking

Thats no fucking high at all

>>2592366
Oh, I'm absolutely not denying the intensity of the experience, or anything like that. All I'm saying is that it's not really a scientific experiment, when all you have in the end is an untestable, personal anecdote and zero data.

>>2591551

Psychedelics give your brain the experience of consciousness outside of your tiny little microcosm.

They can also give you a taste of existence outside of the constraints of time.

A little bit of divine chaos in your perfectly structured world you have created for yourself is a good thing. Atheism is a big shitty neckbeard plate of fail. Esotericism is the more intelligent solution.

All the people here who say "there is no point, the universe doesn't care, blah blah blah" really just don't "get" it. Yes there is a collective consciousness. No, you cannot see it or prove it, it exists on a higher dimension than we can consciously interact with.

>>2592402
thats how everything you ever experience is, faggot

>>2592353

Congratulations, you have experienced a level of consciousness higher than most do in their lifetime. The next step is unconditional love towards everything, and feeling the great interconnectedness around you.

>>2592418
Yes, thanks for that. Do you really need me to point out the differences between everyday personal experiences and scientific experiments, or the difference between an anecdote and actual data?

>>2592435
Thread just went full retard.

Fucking science-hating /x/ subhumans.

>>2592353
So in summary, it really makes you ask the question,

"What the fuck am I?" Because at one point when I took a heroic dose, I had no idea what -I- was. -I- was a thing that sees.

And that breaks down everything, social structure, ranking, rejection, approval, none of those things matter on an emotional level.

The creepy feeling never leaves. It sticks to you. Sometimes, when I'm standing in the kitchen preparing my food for instance, there was a moment when it felt that wasn't -me- who was carrying out the act, but my brain.
It's really the same thing, but the process is no longer transparent.
It also happens when I'm eating, doing hw, talking to people.
The I is nothing, it hardly exist.

>>2592445
> science-hating /x/ subhumans.
i giggled a little

>>2592286
*sigh*

DMT does mean something. DMT is released when consciousness begins in the fetus, when you dream, and when you die it floods the brain from your pineal gland.

Coincidentally (and a pretty fucking big coincidence if you listen to the "SCIENCE" jackoffs on this board) the pineal gland, where DMT is produced, is also the location of the third eye/7th chakra in ayurvedic scripture. Ayurvedic scripture also dictates that the 7th chakra/third eye/pineal gland is the gateway through which the soul enters and leaves the body.

But yeah, according to these tools, that's all just a huge coincidence.

Enjoy your fragile little microcosm, scifags.

>>2592438

Science is limited to the third dimension+ time, faggot.
Yes, it is the greatest thing mankind has invented, but NO, IT IS NOT THE END ALL, BE ALL, NOT EVEN CLOSE.

L2STRING THEORY, FAGS!

>>2592469
>Coincidentally (and a pretty fucking big coincidence if you listen to the "SCIENCE" jackoffs on this board) the pineal gland, where DMT is produced, is also the location of the third eye/7th chakra in ayurvedic scripture. Ayurvedic scripture also dictates that the 7th chakra/third eye/pineal gland is the gateway through which the soul enters and leaves the body.
GO

AWAY

YOU

FUCKING

LOONY

>>2592469
sources

>>2592493

lol u mad bro?

nice ad hominem attacks!

The "vast cosmic consciousness" is just an illusion.

You got trillions of neurons in your brain. Obviously, they work in unison and form a single consciousness.
When this breaks down, it's a big shock. You can never unsee it.

That's all there is to it. I'm not going to even pretend how DMT cause the brain to generate all those vivid hallucination, neuroscience hasn't progress that far yet.

so what I've seen in this thread is that some people are saying that by adding a drug to your system causes your system to become more than just your system. By adding substances to your brain, your brain becomes aware of more than itself.

>>2592504
nice not science post.
nice reported.

>>2592486
I didn't say, or imply anything even close to this, you straw-manning piece of shit.

Published in the prestigious journal Science in 1961, Julius Axelrod's finding in rabbit lung of an N-methyltransferase enzyme capable to mediate biotransformation of tryptamine into DMT[20] initiated a still ongoing scientific interest in endogenous production of DMT in humans and other mammals.[21][26] From then on, two major complementary lines of evidence are investigated: localization and further characterization of the N-methyltransferase enzyme, and analytical studies looking for endogenously produced DMT in body fluids and tissues.[21]

>>2592522
http://schizophreniabulletin.oxfordjournals.org/content/2/1/90.full.pdf

>>2592522
>>2592522
http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00365510510013604

>>2592508
On the contrary, it shows you that you are not really your brain. Or whatever you think you might be.

>>2592465

Does the truth tickle?

>>2592508
I've done DMT and I'm saying that it's wrong.

What it does, however, is make you become aware of yourself. You are only aware of PART of it normally.

If you disagree, then I think there is a nobel prize waiting for anyone who can explain consciousness.

You can almost, ALMOST see how it's form. That's what's profound about the experience. It makes you feel inhuman, like a thing that sees.

>>2592532
that seems to me like you are jumping to conclusions

when you add a substance to a system, that system is no longer just itself, right? So when you add this DMT to a brain, it makes the brain no longer itself. I do not think that it is logical to assume that, when DMT is added to your brain, you are somehow able to see that your you are not just your brain. It would seem to me that this is simply an effect of adding the DMT to your brain. You are seeing your brain + DMT.

>>2592533
No, it was merely the expression that got me going.

>>2592504
>ad hominem
HURR IM USIN TEH FALLACEYS XD XD XD

Goddamn, you /x/fags are so frighteningly uneducated.

>>2592532
No, it shows that you ARE your brain.

Most scientists would agree, but the full impact doesn't hit you until you see it for yourself.
It's like an android somehow popping it's own hood and looking underneath, and asking, "WHAT AM I?"

>>2592543
The way I see it, the teacher always speaks in riddles.

>>2592558
you aren't going to convince anyone if you try to talk like a wise old sage on the internet

>>2592594
Well I can't explain it any better than that. How do you imagine the unimaginable?

>Drugs prove that there is magic
What the fuck? /sci/ is dead, seriously. All of the things you feel are side effects of your brain translating the effects of the drugs for you, its not magic.

>>2592603
u mad?

captcha: onsmoter believe

>>2592599
you can't, by definition of what you just said

a brain with no drugs in it sees the universe in a certain way

a brain with drugs added in sees the universe in a different way

the most logical explanation for the difference in views is that the drugs are causing this feeling. Drugs are chemical compounds that affect the body in a certain way. DMT sounds like it is a chemical compound that affects the brain in such a way as to create very odd perceptions of reality. There is nothing here to prove that "you are more than your brain" because the "larger view" that you are getting when you take this drug only comes about when you take the drug. The most logical explanation is that it is simply a hallucination.

>>2592610
Not mad, just disappoint. I stopped coming here because of all of the stupid threads that were made a couple of months ago, and every time I come back, I end up being disappointed. However, I do see some interesting things now and again.

>>2592627
Suppose I told you your consciousness transcends your physical reality? You would probably call me a loony.

>>2592641
perhaps, perhaps not. It depends on how you would explain it to me. If your explanation was based off of drug use, then I would be less inclined to believe you for the reasons I have already stated.

>>2592647
What base would you prefer the explanation to be on?

>>2592655
something verifiable

>>2592664
Look around yourself.

>>2592641
Go ahead with your crazy theory, I'll tell you exactly while its silly in simple terms.

>>2592679
>>2592679
>While
Why*

>>2591551
Didn't read the thread but thought I'd comment.

I've done some psychedelic research chemicals, DXM and shrooms and found out that I cannot enjoy them because of my unrelenting, black and white scientific world-view.

Any thoughts, illusions of grandeur, visual effects, I instantly attributed to the drugs no matter how fucked up I was. Sure, I enjoyed myself but deep down, even during the trip, I acknowledged that this is all bullshit and none of this is true.

>>2592670
around myself? I see the universe. I see a universe that is distinctly separate from myself. However, only in a physical sense. I also see the connections stemming from ecological stuff. I have an effect on the universe, and the universe has an effect on me. This does not mean that I *am* the universe, or anything like that.

>>2592679
>implying there are terms simple enough for an /x/fag to understand
You're up against some mighty windmills.

>>2592692
Oh wow, yep you are crazy, but right at the same time. This is basically the theory of the big bang. Everything was once together, separated, and everything now affects everything else, but its not as deep as you put it, you are just being a fag. Also string theory.

>>2592679
It's not really a theory. Theories have basis in the rational, logical world. That's not the only world, just the one we're most adjusted to.

>>2592692
Look better.

>>2592702
I think you greatly misunderstood my post

the connections I was referring to are things like: I breath in air, I breath out air. I eat things, I shit things.

everything in nature is connected, food chains are the simplest examples. Everything in the universe is connected, there are no isolated systems. But this doesn't mean that an individual system is more than what it actually is.

>>2592713
look better at what, I'm not going to do drugs in order to create a new vision of the universe for myself. Drugs are not a part of myself, so why would I need them to observe what is not myself.

>>2592717
No, I totally get that, you are the one that doesn't. I literally said that everything effects everything, I can't get anymore simple than that.

>>2592725
I am really not seeing the difference you are seeing.

I'm not trying to be mystical or any of that shit, I'm just saying that everything is connected to something in some other way. Like gravity, or electromagnetic radiation.

>>2592739
I was saying that you didn't understand that I understand what you were saying. Holy shit.

>>2592725
It's funny how you literally and figuratively keep talking to yourself.

>>2592747
then why the fuck did you comment in the first place

How long is this shit going to go on?

Will people turn into faggots like OP or find another board?

>>2592753
Check out your post
>I think you greatly misunderstood my post
Then I varified that I understood, and then you said that I was wrong in saying that you didn't understand what I said when I fact did.

When I was sick once I thought that I was a russian military base. I spent 10 minutes trying to work out where the planes came out of, and in the end concluded that my fingers were planes.

They're called delusions, bro.

>>2592766
yeah but you called me crazy in your first post when we are obviously of the same exact opinion

hurrr my metaphysical nonsense is worthy of serious discussion on a board about science and mathematics

>>2592785
> I see a universe that is separate of myself
That kinda tipped me off I guess, aside from that, I guess everything is in order.

But mostly, probably because I thought you were >>2592641

>>2592802
I guess I should have clarified that I meant physically distinct

Citation needed

Citation needed every-ware.

I need an image like that right now.

>>2592896
I NEED AN IMAGE FOR "WHY DID YOU FUCKING BUMP THIS THREAD"

atheists dont get anything

especially pussy

>>2592913